Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Tuesday, November 03, 2009

In Queens, N.Y., the opponent of city council candidate Dan Halloran has called attention to the fact that Halloran is the "First Atheling" (king) of the ancient Germanic religion of Theodism, a pre-Christian Heathen religion. Halloran once wrote on a web site that his religion "practices blood sacrifice," which he compared to Jewish dietary laws.

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From David Gibson's "A Pagan Republican: Trick? Or Treat" at www.politicsdaily.com

[The focus is on the] council race in the borough of Queens that under normal circumstances wouldn't get locals terribly excited, much less have any national implications.

Why is this year different? For starters, the race between the Democrat and the Republican is actually competitive, which certainly isn't always the case in New York City....

Far more important, however, is that the GOP nominee, Dan Halloran, is a practicing Pagan. And not just any Pagan. Halloran is the "First Atheling," or King, of New Normandy, which is the Greater New York Area branch of the Thod faith of pre-Christian Heathen religions.

The Web site of Halloran's tribe says it is "dedicated to reviving the folkways of the northern European people" and that its followers practice "Thodish Belief, which emphasizes the bonds of the community and the development of a worldview and cultural ethos that our ancient forebears would have honored, and uses these tools to forge a connection between the individual and the divine. We believe in and honor the Gods and Goddesses of the North, spirits of the land, and the memories of our ancestors."

Not exactly the kind of campaign literature the Republican National Committee would write, and indeed, Halloran's faith isn't necessarily going to make his public life a walk in the park.

When the Queens Tribune, a local weekly with close Democratic ties, wrote a front page story about Halloran and his Heathenism back in September, Halloran was already hesitant to speak about his beliefs.

"I am not comfortable with injecting my religion into my politics," Halloran told the paper. "I grew up born and raised Roman Catholic. I went to Jesuit schools. Most of my life has been in [a] traditional Irish household."

"I don't think any of this is really relevant to the City Council race," he added. "It's like talking about what church you pray at. That you understand the divine is the most important part."

Since then, the novelty of Halloran's religion -- as well as photos of him in various regalia celebrating Thodish rites -- have made for great play, and plays on words. "Grand Ol' Pagan" said the Village Voice headline. "Out of the broom closet," Sarah Pike, a religious studies professor, wrote at ReligionDispatches.

No surprise that Halloran has generally declined to speak in detail about his religious practices since then, except to assert that he believes in God and is "a man of faith."

In truth, "Pagan" still isn't a label that resonates with most voters, even in New York City, which is not -- contrary to widespread red-state belief -- a hotbed of Paganism. (Why else would Michael Bloomberg have spent so much time and money cultivating the black churches if they weren't a potent force? Not to mention Irish Catholics and the Orthodox Jews of the outer boroughs.)

...the Thod faith of pre-Christian Heathen religions.

Gimme that old time religion!

Be Well.

Nothing like some good old fashioned religious bigotry to liven up a campaign!

Wouldn't living in IN THE WEST make them all too westernized? Why do they live here then?

The odd thing about neo-paganism that looks for its roots in Celtic or Germanic pre-christian beliefs is that we have relatively no information about those beliefs that weren't filtered through Christian writers.

The ancient pagan Celts and Germanic peoples had a system for inscribing stone or wood, (Ogham or Runes) but left no texts of any real length.

Only Christians wrote books or things of any length; thus what we know about Celtic or Germanic pagan deities, rites or practices were written down by a Christian.

Thus neo-pagans can never really get to what the original beliefs or practices were without seeing it through the Christian lens of the person writing it.

Consider:


Hwilum hie geheton aet haergtrafum
wigweorunga, wordum baedon
aet him gastbona geoce gefremede

While they vowed in their heathen temples
altar-offerings, asked with words
that the slayer-of-souls would aid them.


The ony reference to Wodan in Beowulf is probably found in "gastbona." Slayer of souls--ghost bane.

Most actual knowledge of the northern pantheon (tales) come from the 12 and 13th century Icelandic texts, the Prose Edda and the Poetic Edda, written down almost two hundred years after the island was converted to Christianity.

Amazing the focus we place on religious beliefs when we would be outraged if WE were kept from doing something based on our's.

"Amazing the focus we place on religious beliefs when we would be outraged if WE were kept from doing something based on our's."

That's because people believe that their imaginary frined is better than other people's imaginary friend.

#5 | POSTED BY GRENDEL AT 2009-11-03 09:46 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

The only things we know about Jesus' teachings were filtered (*extensively*) through writers writing hundreds of years after the events they were recording, which writings were then translated, re-translated, and heavily edited by various popes, cardinals, and other assorted religious authorities. Hmm. Ironic, isn't it, Grendel? You know as much about Jesus as Halloran knows about Wodan.

Funny how religion becomes the key media focus for Romney, Jindal, Huckabee, etc, but if you dare mention religion in this case you're stirring up shit. Funny funny funny. So they are into animal sacrifice and blood rituals. It's better than being a Christian, right?

"Amazing the focus we place on religious beliefs when we would be outraged if WE were kept from doing something based on our's."
#6 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-11-03 09:50 AM | Reply

The plan is, you make decisions on YOUR life based on your personal beliefs; you don't make decisions for OTHER PEOPLE based on your personal beliefs.
When it comes to choosing your political representative, you do have a right to know the candidate's personal beliefs, and vote for them or not based on how you feel they will represent your beliefs.

Funny how religion becomes the key media focus for Romney, Jindal, Huckabee, etc, but if you dare mention religion in this case you're stirring up shit.

I admit to a double standard when it comes to President of the United States versus a city council member.


One Nation under Thod......

New York, New York!!

I'd vote for Halloran on principle alone.

And what the hell would a guy named "Grendel" know about Beowulf, anwway?

Grendel was a girl.

Oh! that's right!

Hansel and Grendel!

THETOM

Personal Belief:

Paganism is a group of recently created modern religions, who's creaters cheery picked what they wanted, and created the rest from whole cloth.

But all that is pretty minor. I LIKE most pagans I've met. The "what comes around goes around" philosophy a lot focus on is a good one. (They just need to avoid the creeping green politics that is infecting some branches)

My biggest gripe against pagans is that they continue to imply that witch hunting is something invented by, or expanded on, by Christains.

You don't have to look too hard to find that pre-christains were vigorous and brutal witch hunters, and like with later periods, it happened (and still happens) in waves.

Hillaire Bellec predicted it, USAF. In his book "Survivals and New Arrivals" Belloc predicted the rise of a new paganism that would be a synthesis of all the old ones. He was completely on target.
My gripe about neo-paganism is that it makes no effort to address the inconsistencies it harbors. It is a huge tent of conflicting views. Belloc was right. They adopted almost every pagan school without any effort to make them agree.
Except on one thing: they agree to reject Christianity, often in a most hostile manner.

My gripe about neo-paganism is that it makes no effort to address the inconsistencies it harbors.

In other words, it fits in perfectly with every other major faith.

Call me silly and narrow-minded if you'd like. But, if a candidate actually does engage in animal sacrifice as part of his or her religion, I do actually want to know about it.

I would consider such a practice as something I'd prefer my political leaders to avoid, if at all possible.

Call me silly and narrow-minded if you'd like. But, if a candidate actually does engage in animal sacrifice as part of his or her religion, I do actually want to know about it.

I would if they were breaking the law to do it, but, if they are doing it legally (I can't imagine how that would be done personally) then it is none of anyone's business.

Oh my Thod - no Zod.

Would this mean he types "Th-d" when he comes here? Should we be on the look out?

The only things we know about Jesus' teachings were filtered (*extensively*) through writers writing hundreds of years after the events they were recording, which writings were then translated, re-translated, and heavily edited by various popes, cardinals, and other assorted religious authorities. Hmm. Ironic, isn't it, Grendel? You know as much about Jesus as Halloran knows about Wodan.

The entire dating of scripture aside, which is not similar to the pagan accounts as you assume, you seemed to miss my central point.

Neo pagans using the texts they are using to worship Wodan, Thor, etc. would be akin to Christians creating Christianity based solely upon the accounts of Jesus as related in the Qu'ran or other Islamic texts.


Grendel was a girl.

#15 | Posted by Diablo

No.


But I like the pun of Hansel and Grendel.


Grendel has to be a girl. What kind of dude would eat men?
Ooops! Sorry. This is the retort....

Grendel has to be a girl. What kind of dude would eat men?
Ooops! Sorry. This is the retort....

He broke the bread, gave it to them, and said, "This is my body, which is given up for you."

He broke the bread, gave it to them, and said, "This is my body, which is given up for you."

That whole "eating Jesus" thing always creeped me out as a kid. I still find it a strange ritual.

That whole "eating Jesus" thing always creeped me out as a kid. I still find it a strange ritual.

Yes, odd to explain to a child, for certain.

It becomes easier to understand once you understand the nature of the Seder, the creation of the old covenant (testament) by Moses and the establishment of the new covenant (testament) by Christ.

Christ is the paschal lamb that is sacrificed and that death may pass over all of humanity. The spilt blood is not spread on the doors of the Hebrews but consumed in the form of transformed bread and wine.

In short the central idea is that Christ is taking most common form of religious expression in the ancient world, which is animal sacrifice, and reshaping into an expression in which the spiritual reality transcends and transforms the physical reality.

Food for the body thus becomes food for the soul.


The fact that charges of cannibilism are so common in Christianity both in the ancient world as now makes the practice of bread and wine transformed to the body and blood of God very likely to be authentic to Jesus.

Why else would you have continue a practice which had and has so much potential for criticism and minsunderstanding?

Take care, must sign off for now.


.......the pot calling the kettle ignorant......

I would if they were breaking the law to do it, but, if they are doing it legally (I can't imagine how that would be done personally) then it is none of anyone's business.

#21 | POSTED BY KANREI AT 2009-11-03 12:03 PM | REPLY | FLAG

Uh, if it were legal, I shouldn't be able to consider it in deciding whether to vote for someone? If incest was legal in Alabama, and a candidate was screwing his daughter, it's off limits because it's legal?

If it's legal to smoke pot medicinally, I couldn't inquire to take into account if a candidate was routinely getting stoned?

If it's legal to own a brothel in Nevada, I couldn't inquire and make personal judgments on the character of a candidate if they owned such an institution?

Hello? Anybody Home????

Hello? Anybody Home????

#30 | Posted by somoco at 2009-11-03 01:01 PM |

Not in your case, but we are used to that here by now.

Can you answer my question?

You question was answered. Considering I began my quote with "I would," clearly I am talking about my opinion. You are free to consider anything you wish when voting.

you said that it's nobody's business if they were sacrificing animals provided it was legal.

my question is, do you believe that as long as a candidate acts within the bounds of the law, none of their personal practices should be considered by voters in deciding how to vote?

do you believe that as long as a candidate acts within the bounds of the law, none of their personal practices should be considered by voters in deciding how to vote?


I believe individuals are free to make any personal choices they wish, but it should not be made a campaign issue.

-as long as a candidate acts within the bounds of the law, none of their personal practices should be considered by voters in deciding how to vote?

That isn't how the world works. The personal practices of politicians are exposed and examined all the time, and voters can decide whether to consider them when they vote.

That isn't how the world works.

Doesn't make it right or moral, just makes it reality. I was asked what I believed and I believe individuals are free to make any personal choices they wish, but that those choices should not be made a campaign issue. I know it will be, but that was not the question.

#38. I'm not trying to be a jerk, although sometimes I am without trying.

But, aren't there some personal choices that do matter? Like if a person's a drunk, a stoner, a peyote taker, an adult book store owner, etc? Don't these things reflect in some measure on a person's value system, and when we vote, aren't we concerned about the candidate's values - whether or not these activities are legal or not?

Don't these things reflect in some measure on a person's value system, and when we vote, aren't we concerned about the candidate's values - whether or not these activities are legal or not?


Am I not being clear?

I believe individuals are free to make any personal choices they wish, but that those choices should not be made a campaign issue.

I was retorting SomeMoreCoke, K.

Or so I thought.

You're being clear, but I wish to continue annoying you.

If mutilating dead bodies were legal in a particular state, and your candidate was found at the morgue have sexual relations with dead people of all genders and ages. There's video of it, so there's no question about it. Are you saying that you would not take that into voting consideration, and that it's nobody's business?

I'm just trying to test to see if you have any limit whatsoever.

You are not annoying me Somoco, don't worry about it.


If mutilating dead bodies were legal in a particular state
I never play "what if" games. You can "what if" anything.


As to my limits, yes, I have very strong and well defined limits, but they are my limits and I do not expect EVERYONE to share them, nor do I think less of anyone who has different limits set. Making a "campaign issue" out of something legal, but that some view as distasteful is playing the heard game over rational thought.

Just to be clear, the pagans I have met have usually been far more normal, even dull, than their clothing and piercings suggest. I look at it all as a minor eccentricity.
There are, however, a few serious wackos as in the Process Church and some Crowleyites. Those types would never get my vote.

^.^

"So they are into animal sacrifice and blood rituals. It's better than being a Christian, right?"

Uhmm, no ... but to the point of the thread, quite frankly, I'm not too worried about other peoples' religion, be it paganism, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, or satanism, or anything else. All religions tend to have the same faults :: they were born out of textx written eons ago and heavily translated, so you could ask yourself what do you really know about God at all.

I am a Christian, but I don't push my faith on anyone else. If someone else figures that their ways are the correct ones, that's fine by me. We'll sort that out once we get to the pearly gates.


JEB

#24 | POSTED BY GRENDEL
"But I like the pun of Hansel and Grendel."

I second that.

Although we should be careful...the last thing the world needs is some sort of gay Anglo-Saxon fairy (!) tale.

#17 | POSTED BY USAF242
"My biggest gripe against pagans is that they continue to imply that witch hunting is something invented by, or expanded on, by Christains."

That's a fair point, USAF, although in this country's history, the most prominent example is Salem, MA. The Puritans had settled here to escape religious persecution, and then....well, we all know the rest.

The Roman pagans certainly did their share of persecution of Christians, often involving trained gladiators and hungry lions. Granted, the "pagans" of today are hardly the same as what we call Roman pagans.

Most pagans that I know became pagan in response to what they felt was an oppressive Christian upbringing, especially the women. As they say, there's no zealot like a convert, and much of the anti-Christian sentiment grows out of resentment, rightly or wrongly.

My feeling is that Kim's attack on Halloran's religion is uncalled-for, but also politics as usual. But even coming close to connecting it with Nazism is way over the line.

Correct me if I'm wrong (as if that needs to be said on the DR), but I don't think any "real" witches were burned in Salem. It dealt more with getting rid of people who were "different" or who posed financial, legal, political, or religious roadblocks to the power hungry. That, and the naturally occurring LSD in their bread. "No, seriously, I'm for real this time...I TOTALLY saw Goody Proctor flying! And the colors coming from her broom tasted great!"

"I don't think any "real" witches were burned in Salem. "

No one was burned in Salem.

No one was burned in Salem.

Except Caleb, who paid $10 for an oz of oregano.

LOL Goatman.

FF

Ah ha, somebody WAS reading my post!

Of course an oversight on my part. Nineteen people were hanged (not burned) and one crushed to death by stones.

I know, imagine raising someone's religious beliefs as an issue in a campaign. Typical conservative mouth-breathers...

Typical

...the Thod faith of pre-Christian Heathen religions.
Gimme that old time religion!
Be Well.
#2 | POSTED BY DETHSPUD AT 2009-11-03 08:00 AM | REPLY | FLAG:


www.cultofcthulhu.net

Delivered.

The Elder Gods do not even deign to notice the paltry fleshling son of a minor spirit.

the Christ will be devoured along with every other soul when they arise.

(i have read alot of H.P. Lovecraft. I dont actually believe this crap, its just entertaining)

I hope his opponent is ready to experience the Wrath of Thor. If I learned anything from listening to Led Zeppelin III, it was that the Norse aren't to be trifled with.

Debate over Salem Witch Trials has consumed a vast amount of ink over the centuries.

But one point that usually gets overlooked is one that speaks well of colonial America. Think about witch trials in Colonial America at that time, and then look at witch trials in Europe during the same period.

Its sort of like comparing the U.S. and French Revolutions.

As for ACTUAL Christain views on witches, I like to remind folks of the ORIGINAL offical Christain doctrines on the subject: Its all superstition, and if you harm someone because you think they are a witch, YOU have committed a crime. This is a CONSISTANT recurring theme in the early church.

Sadly, ALL, I REPEAT: "ALL" societies that believe in magic (have it codified in their laws, regardless of if the society is tribal or state), also believe in the possibility of magic used for evil, and "ALL" such societies practice violent Witch Hunting (This INCLUDES the ancient Celts that the Wicca claim to come from).

That the Church failed to root out the superstition is not very surprising. That it took centuries for the Church itself to be contaminated by the popular belief is the actual surprise.

Update:

In the end, Republican Dan Halloran beat his opponent Kevin Kim with a lot less money and endorsements, but support from the voters fed up with the constant mudslinging.

That's the consensus of Monday morning quarterbacks in the District 19 City Council race that energized the district and turned the tide against Democrats.

Halloran, 37, an attorney from Whitestone, beat Kim, a lawyer and former aide to Congressman Gary Ackerman (D-Queens and Nassau), with an unofficial 52 percent of the vote. Kim took 47 percent...

Kim's camp started the smear campaign by publicizing the fact that Halloran heads a pagan religion that was printed by a weekly newspaper with ties to Kim's campaign consultants.

After the Queens Tribune piece appeared, Halloran acknowledged he belongs to a pagan group, but says religion has no place in a political campaign and that the story was printed in a biased way. In it, Halloran is described as the first atheling, or king of Normandy, a branch of the Theod faith, a pre-Christian heathen religion.

Raised a Catholic, the Republican got involved with the group after the death of his father, when a relative suggested he might find some comfort from it.

Later, Kim hinted that Halloran's career with the NYPD was anything but stellar and earlier this week sent out fliers from Sacred Heart Church telling people not to vote for Halloran because he's a pagan.

The Kim campaign used the church's mailing address instead of its own, which may be a campaign violation. Following his victory, Halloran said he had spoken with the pastor, Father Thomas Brosnan, who indicated there was no malice intended and that the pastor didn't expect a political flier to go out representing the Catholic Church.

Halloran said he would not pursue the issue....

Kim raised $436,848, while Halloran took in only $46,927.
www.zwire.com

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