Nope, and I'm in health-care.

I'm still undecided.

Nope, and I'm in health-care.

That's a pretty irresponsible move if you work with patients.

No
Neither are my young kids.
I'll let others get in line in front of us.

No, we have wild pigs rooting up the yard and eat too much and I hope they die from it. Why would I want to vaccinate them?

Perhaps when flu season is all over you will make up your mind then?

I came down with the respiratory flu 6 days ago (I don't think it's swine, but who knows).

Never in my life have I had my ass so thoroughly kicked with this intenstity for this long by a virus. Never. I haven't left the house, I've been alternating between a pint of water and a pint of gatorade all day long. I've been sleeping a ton and when I am not sleeping, I've kept a REAL low profile. Yet, my current temp is 100.4 (it spiked up to 102.8 Saturday night). I have a REAL strong constitution. I rarely get sick and when I do, it usually doesn't last long. Anytime my wife and I catch the same virus, she always deals with it longer.

I don't wish this on anyone.

Don't fear the vaccine.

"Perhaps when flu season is all over you will make up your mind then?"

I might.

Then again, I still may be thinking about it.

One never knows.

Nope, and I'm in health-care.

#1 | Posted by matsop

You should be fired. Unless of course, by "health-care" you mean you're just an insurance company paper pusher.

No...the government screwed it up and there are STILL not enough vacine in the DC metro area so it is still being "Rationed" (funny how Obama's kids got it when there are still a lot of kids that have not due to the shortage)

And is this not just a precursor of things to come if we get government run healthcare?

Awww...I'm sorry you're sick Jeff.

Want me to make you some home made chicken soup?

Nope. Never had one. Don't intend to any time soon. I'm not anti-vaccine per se; I just think this whole flu thing is overblown.

"No
Neither are my young kids.
I'll let others get in line in front of us."

Good.

More vaccine for those who aren't terminally stupid.

No.

I've never had the flu, or a flu shot. Spoke with a woman today whose son is sick after getting the swine flu vaccine. No thanks.

The swine flu vaccine shortage appears to have ended here in North Florida. The health department had it for my kids, and the closest Solantic had plenty of the mist form of the vaccine.

In terms of safety considerations, there's nothing different between the seasonal flu vaccines that have been available for years and this swine flu vaccine. They are produced the same way and contain the same ingredients.

For this reason, we decided to get the vaccine when it became available. It seemed like the smarter move, particularly since I have gotten the regular flu vaccine a couple of times before and had no ill effects.

Hell no!!

And is this not just a precursor of things to come if we get government run healthcare?

Millions of American children have gotten vaccinated against the flu this year at no cost, a government program that will save hundreds or even thousands of lives. The CDC and WHO's early detection of the flu pandemic enabled the swine flu vaccine to be out early in the flu season.

This program is hardly a knock against health care. It's an example of government doing a great job at something that we needed government to do.

My mom just dropped some off, Lisa.

I am dead serious.

I finished it just prior to logging on.

Were I in the custom of getting flu shots, or in a high risk category, or had small kids, I would get the vaccine now.

As it is, I'll wait until those go first.

There should be plenty left over, as I know Wingnuts won't be dumb enough to fall for Obama's Muslim Socialist Vaccine Conspiracy.

"Perhaps when flu season is all over you will make up your mind then?"

I might.

Then again, I still may be thinking about it.

One never knows.

#8 | Posted by Lisa

I am betting on STILL MAY BE THINKING ABOUT IT.

Usually, the flu vaccination consists of a bundling of the strains that are predicted to be the most prevalent in a given year. Swine was predicted a bit late and the flu season vaccine was already produced - so there are 2 vaccines this year:

1 for certain strains of flu and 1 for swine.

There should be plenty left over, as I know Wingnuts won't be dumb enough to fall for Obama's Muslim Socialist Vaccine Conspiracy.

#19 | Posted by Corky

It's very impressive that you could somehow make this a partisan thread.

That's great Jeff!

Nothing like home made chicken soup!

Nah probably not. It probably costs too much anyhow. I already paid 25 bucks for a seasonal flu shot that should do Me.

Larry

PS Get better soon Jeff. Being sick sucks.

There's a vaccine for Islam?
Cool! Put it in the Nile.

#9---- Nullified, it's more important that the young are protected and this whole thing is overblown. If I've not gotten other flu vaccines in the past, please tell me what makes this particular flu so special?

"I am betting on STILL MAY BE THINKING ABOUT IT."

My husband doesn't call me Last Minute Lisa for nuttin'!!!

It's an example of government doing a great job at something that we needed government to do.

Missing availability projections by 50% or more notwithstanding...

As for the vaccine...not a chance in hell, for anyone in our family.

I'm unecided. I got my regular flu shot just like I always do, but the way they're under pressure to make the swine vaccine faster and faster, I'm worried about shorcuts in manufacturing, QA, etc.

So Jeffy,

Why wasn't Christ born in Poland?

Because they couldn't find three wisemen and a virgin.

Feel better soon!

Hopefully Corky gets the new anti-tool vaccine as well.

To those of you who aren't getting the vaccine, I'd be curious to hear why. We put a lot of thought into the issue before getting it.

I think that some people would rather get the flu (something out of their control) than risk the remote chance of adverse effects from the vaccine (something they chose to get). It's human nature.

"I am betting on STILL MAY BE THINKING ABOUT IT."

My husband doesn't call me Last Minute Lisa for nuttin'!!!

#27 | Posted by Lisa

Perhaps he was referring to your bedroom relations?

Husband says - how about a little cuddle time

Lisa says:

STILL THINKING ABOUT IT a year later...

Lisa, I've been joking that "If it's my time, then it's my time," with the occasional variation "If God wants me now..." You may view these in poor taste, but hey, I can be a bit flip. (As if you hadn't noticed.)

I have never had a flu shot (seasonal), and I don't intend to start now. I tend to avoid medicine beyond Tylenol. I get sick infrequently (though when I do, it's usually a knockdown). My wife and the boys have had seasonal flu shots (because they all got ridiculously ill for something like a week three years ago); the youngest has had the H1N1 shot. Of course, now he's sick. We'll see if it goes that direction (possible because it was only last week and we hear that it takes two weeks to do its job).

Oh, we are having an H1N1 flu clinic at my school, as many schools are. I find it a bit surprising that there's no talk of vaccinating teachers. You would think that would cut down on spread.

Hopefully Cookfish gets an anti-Corky Hard-on vaccine before his nose gets stuck up my butt permanently.

Because RCADE I don't see the need for Myself to get all of these shots. I can the regular flu shot but others not so much. Besides I could be taking a dose that would benifit another more than Myself.

Larry

To those of you who aren't getting the vaccine, I'd be curious to hear why.

I got my first flu shot of my life last year because the rig medic said I should because of my age (I was 53). I got sick as a dog and I never got sick with the flu before that. So I'm not getting any more flu shots.

That's my story and I'm sticking with it. *grin*

Prag:

No one in my family has ever had the flu shot.

Too many people have gotten sick by it.

Although the number of deaths resulting are enough to make me consider us getting it.

The jury is still out on this one.

I had my physical the other day and the doctor is insisting that I get both the H1N1 and the regular vaccine because I'm very asthmatic. Unfortunately they are low on supplies and are giving them to pediatrics and the over 65 folks first, then the "high risk" people like me. I will do it, I think. I had pneumonia a year and a half ago and a couple of asthmatic bronchitis bouts in the last year and I really don't want to mess with the flu and what it triggers for me.

My 15 year old daughter had the nasal spray version at school last week. My 19 year old son hasn't had it but he's moved into his own place a few weeks ago.

RCADE-

"CDC and WHO's early detection of the flu pandemic enabled the swine flu vaccine to be out early in the flu season. This program is hardly a knock against health care. It's an example of government doing a great job at something that we needed government to do."

The Flu Season Peaks in April and November. They missed April completely and we still have shortages in Nov. Here is just one article on the shortages and where the kids will get it first.

I am not saying that they should not be getting it first...I am saying when the government is in charge there will be shortages which causes prioritization based on who THEY think should get what. Is that FREEDOM? Does that not point out a lot of the issues? Is that not what we saw in Russia and China while we were growing up ..all the various shortages?

There is no possible way to justify this complete fuck up as anything but that.

You should be fired. Unless of course, by "health-care" you mean you're just an insurance company paper pusher.

#9 | Posted by nullifidian at 2009-11-02 03:37 PM

Damn unions.

And I'm a needle - phobe...I was talked into getting the flu vaccine last year, for the first time...and I didn't actually feel a thing from the shot. And I didnt' get the flu either. So I'm game to do it again this year.

"Perhaps he was referring to your bedroom relations?"

Not a chance!!!

He usually tells me I'm gonna kill him.

Hey DC!!!!!!

Are You Getting the Swine Flu Vaccine?

Hell no!

I only got the regular flu vaccine a couple of weeks ago, but not the swine flu one, as per doctor suggestion.

If I've not gotten other flu vaccines in the past, please tell me what makes this particular flu so special?

What exactly do you do do in health care?

Just curious given your above statement.

Yes I am. I also had the Hong Kong flu back in the early 70's which was a strain of H1N1. That flu really sucked! I can remember the schools shut down in NE Ohio. Anyone that had that flu is less likely to get the swine flu as bad.

I'm scheduled to get mine on Wednesday. They're all out of the flu vaccine that actually kills people though and they're not sure if they'll be getting a new supply in time for the peak of the season. This is B.S.!

Already had regular flu shot. When H1N1 is available I'll get that too.

Best defense is a good offense:
- Wash hands thoroughly
- Take Wet Wipes to wipe off shopping carts, etc.
- Don't touch nose or eyes.

The Flu Season Peaks in April and November. They missed April completely and we still have shortages in Nov.

The swine flu didn't emerge until late April. As for November, we'll see if there are shortages. There don't appear to be shortages here in Jacksonville.

Actually being too clean kills You faster than being too dirty. There's no imunity in Your system if one is too clean.

To those of you who aren't getting the vaccine, I'd be curious to hear why. We put a lot of thought into the issue before getting it.

I won't get it for a couple reasons. First it's untested.

Second, I'm just not that scared of it. Take a look at Australia...they are coming out of their flu season and they average 2-4 thousand deaths per year from flu. How many swine flu deaths have they had? 189. I'm just not going to roll the dice on a vaccine that is untested with negligible benefits.

I was on active duty in the 70s and was required to get the 'double shot' and worry if I was one of those who would have side affects (A neurological disorder as in the called Guillam Barre syndrome). Chalk it up to a big mistake on the drug company's part because they did no testing then and none today.

No, neither I will nor my wife wil get it.

Actually being too clean kills You faster than being too dirty. There's no imunity in Your system if one is too clean.

Though it is no excuse for unbridled slovenliness, you are correct, Larry.

If I've not gotten other flu vaccines in the past, please tell me what makes this particular flu so special?

This flu is special because it's a new strain that most people under 60 have never been exposed to, and thus they have no natural immunity to it. That's how it became a pandemic.

Chalk it up to a big mistake on the drug company's part because they did no testing then and none today.

These vaccines were tested thoroughly. People signed up to be part of the first human trials in large number.

To those of you who aren't getting the vaccine, I'd be curious to hear why.
#32 | Posted by rcade

There were several threads in recent weeks on the pros and cons.

They are inherently toxic. If the cellular damage they do doesn't manifest into something serious, its long term effects hidden to us. The flu itself is nothing more another viral cold that our bodies are well equiped to deal with. Take the vaccine and you're playing Russian Roulette for no real reason than the hysterics promoted by the pharmaceutical industry and its government lackeys.

I won't get it for a couple reasons. First it's untested.

Absolutely untrue you liar.

They are inherently toxic. If the cellular damage they do doesn't manifest into something serious, its long term effects hidden to us. The flu itself is nothing more another viral cold that our bodies are well equiped to deal with. Take the vaccine and you're playing Russian Roulette for no real reason than the hysterics promoted by the pharmaceutical industry and its government lackeys.

Don't you ever tire of being wrong?

They are inherently toxic.

There's nothing inherently toxic about being exposed to a weakened or dead strain of a virus to spark the development of antibodies. It mimics the natural process of developing immunity. We've had vaccines in widespread use since the polio vaccine in the '50s, at least.

A six year old son of my neighbors co worker has the Swine Flu.

His doctor said that there is nothing worse with this flu as the normal flu.

He didn't recommend getting the vaccination.

These vaccines were tested thoroughly. People signed up to be part of the first human trials in large number.

None in pregnant women...and none under the age of 5 for the injectable being pimped for small children. (Per the vaccine insert)

You want to know why I won't be getting the swine flu vaccine? Well, my doctor told he doesn't recommend it to his patients and the implication was that if I wanted to be a guinea pig to go ahead. It wasn't Rush Limbaugh or Glen Beck who ordered me not to take the swine flu vacinne, it was a medical profesional who gave me his opinion, a medical profesional I trust given his track record.

I also got a root canal today. Took three hours instead of the expected two, and I got to find out what it feels like when the anesthetic runs out right before a cool blast of air is sprayed on an exposed tooth canal to dry it.

I sat up, gripped the handrests of the dental chair as hard as I could and rode out the most excruciating dental pain I've ever experienced for 20 seconds. Tears were streaming down my face like I was watching the end of Old Yeller.

Absolutely untrue you liar.

Hilarious...they are your own links, clown.

Anytime you want to point out completed trials for pregnant women and children under 5 before March of 2010, I'm all ears...

Best defense is a good offense:
- Wash hands thoroughly
- Take Wet Wipes to wipe off shopping carts, etc.
- Don't touch nose or eyes.

Frickin' anal retentive types are all the same.

The best defense is natural antibodies that come from eating germs and getting the flue once and a while. Ask any plumber.

ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier: NCT00963430

Estimated Enrollment: 120
Study Start Date: September 2009
Estimated Study Completion Date: July 2010
Estimated Primary Completion Date: July 2010 (Final data collection date for primary outcome measure)

ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier: NCT00905125

Estimated Enrollment: 200
Study Start Date: June 2009
Estimated Study Completion Date: June 2010
Estimated Primary Completion Date: June 2010 (Final data collection date for primary outcome measure)

ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier: NCT00943631

Enrollment: 408
Study Start Date: August 2009
Estimated Study Completion Date: March 2010
Estimated Primary Completion Date: March 2010 (Final data collection date for primary outcome measure)

ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier: NCT00943488

Enrollment: 450
Study Start Date: August 2009
Estimated Study Completion Date: April 2010
Estimated Primary Completion Date: April 2010 (Final data collection date for primary outcome measure)

Enrollment: 583
Study Start Date: August 2009
Estimated Study Completion Date: April 2010
Estimated Primary Completion Date: April 2010 (Final data collection date for primary outcome measure)

Estimated Enrollment: 850
Study Start Date: August 2009
Estimated Study Completion Date: May 2010
Estimated Primary Completion Date: May 2010 (Final data collection date for primary outcome measure)

Estimated Enrollment: 650
Study Start Date: August 2009
Estimated Study Completion Date: June 2010
Estimated Primary Completion Date: June 2010 (Final data collection date for primary outcome measure)

Anytime you want to point out completed trials for pregnant women and children under 5 before March of 2010, I'm all ears...

Nice goal post shift.

Trials are currently underway. As in started, progessing. It's not as if this vaccine was made, packaged and given straight to patients.

Now if you argued that testing is incomplete, I wouldn't have made an issue of it.

Completed trials, Rcade.

#65 | Posted by member2586

I had the flu a few weeks ago. Ran through the whole family in less than a month. Very mild. The doctors didn't proscribe Tani-flu for anyone other than my oldest son. If this was a strain that was killing people be the thousands in the US I would have considered it. I just don't see the need.

#70 | Posted by IraqiBukkake

Care to take a guess as to what they'll be measuring in spring 2010?

I'll give you a hint-it's not the safety of the vaccine.

Rogers

There are many ways to boost our immune system by diet, nutritional supplements and herbals that minimize the risk of flu; and if we do get the flu, they minimize the severity of the symptoms.

I would never trust the reinsurances of an industry that peddles toxic poisons as curative medicine. Not one patent medicine on the market today is without toxic side effects. The death toll is over 100,000 a year. Look it up if you don't believe me.

I sat up, gripped the handrests of the dental chair as hard as I could and rode out the most excruciating dental pain I've ever experienced for 20 seconds.

But, "Is it safe?"

The best defense is natural antibodies that come from eating germs and getting the flue once and a while. Ask any plumber.

#68 | Posted by RingMaster

For once I agree with you.

Yeah RingMaster that's the number 1 reason at least arond her for septic tank failures. TOO many antibacterial cleansers. Killing all them good bacterias that munch on Human wastes.

Larry

I would never trust the reinsurances[sic] of an industry that peddles colloidal silver as curative medicine.

#40---- you're one of those at risk and it might not be a bad idea for you to avail yourself of the vaccine-- even though, as stated in other posts I won't.

For once I agree with you.

Nietzsche and I do too. "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger."

Nice goal post shift.

Trials are currently underway. As in started, progessing. It's not as if this vaccine was made, packaged and given straight to patients.

Now if you argued that testing is incomplete, I wouldn't have made an issue of it.

That's 2/3rds of my family, douchebag. Who were supposed to be the first people in line? Of course, that won't stop you from running your mouth about "absolutes".

Don't you ever tire of being wrong?
#61 | Posted by jpw

I get tired of being right.

I also got a root canal today. Took three hours instead of the expected two, and I got to find out what it feels like when the anesthetic runs out right before a cool blast of air is sprayed on an exposed tooth canal to dry it.

Sounds like your dentist is against using nitrous oxide and doesn't know how to administer Novocaine. I had one done last year in two one hour appointments and I never felt a thing. If you saw this guys office you would think you were in East LA. He doesn't waste money of fancy equipment either. I think his xray machine was purchased from a Frankenstein movie set. Fortunately he is one of the best dentists in Hawaii and taught oral surgery for 25 years before moving to the Big Island.

I have a good dentist. That pain was a fluke.

No, I am not taking a vaccine.

I have a good dentist. That pain was a fluke.

#85 | Posted by rcade

...love that smell of puroxide burning the root out of the tooth.uuuug

#76

I get tired of being right.

mmhhhhmmmmmm

Is your real life track record as good is it seems to be on here?

That's 2/3rds of my family, douchebag. Who were supposed to be the first people in line?

There's already been a "first in line." Many in fact.

You claimed the vaccine was untested. That is, in fact, untrue given trials are already going.

#89 | Posted by jpw

Like I keep telling you. I don't get sick and I don't have any of the problems that commonly plague people my age. I know what I do to maintain my health. Like the ignorant hack you are, you dismiss it as good luck.

You claimed the vaccine was untested. That is, in fact, untrue given trials are already going.

More or less true than saying these vaccines are safe and tested for pregnant women and infants?

Crap... My daughter has H1N1 I'm no doubt next.. So no.

rcade, I got the impression it was after the nerve was out. Anyway, keep smiling. A good dentist is getting harder to find then a copper penny.

More or less true than saying these vaccines are safe and tested for pregnant women and infants?

The CDC's position is that the swine flu vaccine in shot form is safe for pregnant women:

Am I correct that the inhaled vaccine is a 'live' virus, and the shot not? That they are different?

Like I keep telling you. I don't get sick and I don't have any of the problems that commonly plague people my age. I know what I do to maintain my health. Like the ignorant hack you are, you dismiss it as good luck.

No, being a non-idiot I dismiss it as anecdotal at best and not proof of anything.

If you're healthy, good for you. If that's how you do it, great. Just don't go around spouting off on topics such as vaccination and expect to be taken seriously.

The CDC's position is that the swine flu vaccine in shot form is safe for pregnant women:

Which truly is fascinating, because the insert says it hasn't been tested on pregnant women and there have been no trials completed on pregnant women. But I guess you can take those kinds of positions when the vaccine manufacturers have been given immunity to all H1N1 vaccine injury lawsuits.

Reading the FAQ, it is interesting how they twist the words around so they don't have to admit that it is not tested.

More or less true than saying these vaccines are safe and tested for pregnant women and infants?

If it's late time points in clinical trials of those groups and no flags have been found to indicate the vaccine is unsafe, then I would venture to say they are safe for those groups even though testing is incomplete.

The reason to push the pregnancy shot is because they get a 2 for 1 out of it.

yes, of course.

after all, i'm a compliant little rethugtard

#18 | Posted by JeffJ

Dr. Murphy says change out all the tooth brushes post haste...

There's nothing inherently toxic about being exposed to a weakened or dead strain of a virus to spark the development of antibodies. It mimics the natural process of developing immunity. We've had vaccines in widespread use since the polio vaccine in the '50s, at least.

#62 | Posted by rcade

Yeah they are thinking the same thing about a HIV/AIDS vaccination....

#66 | Posted by rcade

Root canals suck.

I had one about a year ago--took 40 minutes. And it still cost $1000.00

Just for the record, I'm against it.

#96--- some vaccines, the virus is live and some are dead.

Am I correct that the inhaled vaccine is a 'live' virus, and the shot not? That they are different?

Yep. The nasal vaccine is a live, weakened virus modified to live in the nose instead of the lungs. The shot is a dead virus.

A physician friend won't take the nasal vaccine because of the difference in 'live virus' vs not, nasal spray vs shot. I was wondering if anyone else had knowledge of that.

#108 | Posted by rcade

Thanks.

When I get a cold one thing I NEVER do is sniff. Nothing like spreading a virus further into my system until it turns into a chest cold.

#13 not-angry-just-plain-mad
Good.

More vaccine for those who aren't terminally stupid.

#13 | Posted by Angrydad at 2009-11-02 03:43 PM | Reply | Flag: ad hominem propaganda of the brainless, low-life amoeba scum

angry, didn't i catch you way back when you echoed at least three others in a discussion that each were "afraid for their pre-vaccinated children"? What about now? Are everybody's TWINS now vaccinated? Tell the truth, scumbag.

#74 jpw
Care to take a guess as to what they'll be measuring in spring 2010?

I'll give you a hint-it's not the safety of the vaccine.

I'm on the phone with my daughter...she called to tell me one of the high school teachers she had had, just died from H1N1.

If it's late time points in clinical trials of those groups and no flags have been found to indicate the vaccine is unsafe, then I would venture to say they are safe for those groups even though testing is incomplete.
#99 | POSTED BY JPW

It should be noted that big pharma has a long record of putting drugs to market only to be hit with lawsuits for severe drug reactions that didn't appear in trials. The FDA protects them too much as it is. Don't be one of their guinea pigs.

I'm on the phone with my daughter...she called to tell me one of the high school teachers she had had, just died from H1N1.

The first thing I would want to know is if she was actually blood tested for H1N1. Or did she die from pneumonia? What was her state of health before she got sick?

She definately was tested and had H1N1.

However, she also had asthma which complicated things according to my daughter.

I am letting the school give my tow boys the shots the shots. It is free and it won't hurt them. I will get it for my wife and myself later if there is plenty. It is just the dead virus.

I don't believe the shot has been proven to kill anyone yet has it?

We know the virus has.

sorry to hear that Lisa...I hear it is being reported in 48 States now. Seems like 15 just the other day.

hah tow boys! SB two boys...it sure feels like I am towing them sometimes though. They both NEED a good shot in the arm to wake em up anyway!

Don't be one of their guinea pigs.

The method of producing vaccines has been around for decades. We live much longer and healthier lives than past generations because of vaccines. Though it is certainly true that there are drugs marketed by big pharmaceutical companies that aren't good for people, vaccines have been one of medicine's greatest achievements.

Sorry about your daughter's teacher, Lisa. It's tough to understand why flus kill some people and so many others get sick for a couple days and get better.

My siblings both have small children and the swine flu swept through their houses recently in Texas. All of them got through it like any other flu.

Though I respect the decision of other people not to get it, for me personally I still think the decision to get the vaccine made more sense.

Every time I think I've found a place to get a flu shot, they run out before I get there. The flu's a smaller hassle.

#47---JPW-- the answer is physician--- thanks for putting me at risk.

If you have CVS pharmacies in your area, you can check their availability of swine flu vaccinations here:

Matsop: You're a physician and you're not getting the vaccination? Are you giving it to your patients and/or recommending that they get it?

If you have CVS pharmacies in your area -- #122 | Posted by rcade

11 CVS pharmacies within 5 miles of me. Closest CVS with the vaccine is 3 hours away. I'll keep checking, though -- thanks!

#123--- RCADE, I educate patients in many areas and then they make their decisions-- most individuals when educated make the right decisions for their particular situation.

In the very unlikely chance if anyone is on the fence here....

In 1993 the federal government hid a deadly flu vaccine that killed thousands of nursing home patients. It was the first year that flu shots were paid for by Medicare. The vaccine-related mortality was so large that this set back the life expectancy of Americans for the first time since the 1918 Spanish flu! Mortality reports take a year or two to tabulate and the federal government may choose not to reveal the true mortality rate and whether it was related to the flu or the vaccines. You say this couldn't happen? It did in 1993!

RCADE, I educate patients in many areas and then they make their decisions-- most individuals when educated make the right decisions for their particular situation.

Is there a reason your answer doesn't provide any information at all? If you're a physician, surely you have general advice you are offering specific categories of your patients, such as healthy seniors, pregnant women and children. Are you telling them they should get it or avoid it?

#47---JPW-- the answer is physician--- thanks for putting me at risk.

Cool.

What are your reasons for not taking the vaccine yourself and how do you intend on preventing transmission were you to contract it?

How did I put you at risk?

#127-----Absolutely, you give people as much information as you can about the virus and vaccines (most produced are "attenuated")-along with the CDC's recommendations of risk groups, etc. When you give an individual the information you then open it up to questions (potential complications, etc.)and by the time you're finished almost everyone knows what they're going to do. The same was true in my other life when I was a surgeon. Educated decision-making is powerful. It was rare that I had to tell a person they needed a surgery. One of the problems I saw all too often in medicine (particularly surgery) was the number of unnecessary surgeries due to people not being educated to make the decision best for them. Back then, I had a huge practice but was not doing nearly the number of surgeries my counterparts were doing. I would say your decision concerning the vaccinations for you and your family was very appropriate considering all the information out there. I hope this answers some of your questions.

#128---JPW, the main reason I'm not currently taking the vaccine is that there is limited vaccine and there are children, and other risk groups at greater risk then myself--- I know my personal risk factors and odds and I don't fall into the situation where I should be at the head of the line. Currently, there are more deserving people. Now, the question of transmission--- I know the early symptoms of flu and the minute there's the appearance of it, I'll self-quarantee myself at home and won't go back to work until I'm no longer contagious (at least 24 hours after the absence of fever). How did you put me at risk?-- I can imagine some of the barbs I'll get when I post on some future issues especially controversial ones (e.q. healthcare-- there'll be the idea i'm biased). Also being a "professional I'll have to carry myself with more "decorum" now.

That's interesting, Matsop. I was under the mistaken impression that you weren't getting the vaccine ever, not waiting for others to get theirs first.

#131-- RCADE, this flu is a tough one for me to decide whether I'll ultimately avail myself of it--- 2 issues of concern which currently run through my head 1. How quickly this strain mutated 2. the unusual seasonal occurrence and the amount of cases. My wife will not take it since she has had significant reactions in the past to vaccinations-- she'll just have to stay home for the next two years.

According to Google, the vaccine is not enough!

There is an ongoing debate within the European Commission as to how long web companies should be able to keep such data, with privacy advocates suggesting it be wiped after six months.

However, Google co-founder Larry Page has suggested that the company should not be hindered in retaining search data, rather ludicrously suggesting that the more restrictions there are on data retention, the "more likely we all are to die".

"Our up-to-date influenza estimates may enable public health officials and health professionals to better respond to seasonal epidemics and pandemics," Page is reported to have claimed at Google annual Zeitgeist conference in London.

He said Google's ability to plot and predict potential pandemics would not be possible if the firm had to delete search data after six months, the BBC reports.

Sci-Tech website The Register points out that Google has previously boasted that its flu estimates are available each day because Google search queries can be automatically counted very quickly.

Which raises a question: if the point of using web searches to track disease is that the data is instantly available, how does data that is more than six months old help, let alone make us all less likely to die? The Register asks.

JPW, the main reason I'm not currently taking the vaccine is that there is limited vaccine and there are children, and other risk groups at greater risk then myself--- I know my personal risk factors and odds and I don't fall into the situation where I should be at the head of the line. Currently, there are more deserving people.

Those are pretty much the same reasons I haven't gotten a vaccine yet. If there's enough in the near future, I'll get one though.

I know the early symptoms of flu and the minute there's the appearance of it, I'll self-quarantee myself at home and won't go back to work until I'm no longer contagious (at least 24 hours after the absence of fever).

By then it may be too late though, as there is a window of contagiousness present before symptom onset.

I apologize if I sound like I'm criticizing you as that is not my intent.

I'm genuinely curious as to how this is being handled in a clinical setting.

I can imagine some of the barbs I'll get when I post on some future issues especially controversial ones (e.q. healthcare-- there'll be the idea i'm biased). Also being a "professional I'll have to carry myself with more "decorum" now.

You could have not answered and left it at that.

Forget vaccines. Go to death calculator to determine when you will die.

#95 rcade
More or less true than saying these vaccines are safe and tested for pregnant women and infants?

The CDC's position is that the swine flu vaccine in shot form is safe for pregnant women:

just one detail of many they have flip-flopped on since May:

CDC targeting pregnant women for an H1N1 vaccine contradicts its own advice.

In New ACIP Guidelines: Guidance for Vaccine Recommendations in Pregnant and Breastfeeding Women updated version (May 5, 2008), CDC refers to the live attenuated influenza vaccine LAIV), commonly called "live vaccine," reporting:

1. "If a live-virus vaccine is inadvertently given to a pregnant woman, or if a woman becomes pregnant within 4 weeks after vaccination, she should be counseled about the potential effects on the fetus."

2. "Live vaccines pose a theoretical risk to the fetus."

3. A chart in this CDC report specifically designates "pregnant women" as persons who "should not be vaccinated with LAIV."

Nope, won't be getting the H1N1 swine flu vaccine. I got my regular flu shot last month as I do every year, but the H1N1 swine flu vaccine is still too untested at this point. Let others be the guinea pigs. I'll pass this time 'round.

I sat up, gripped the handrests of the dental chair as hard as I could and rode out the most excruciating dental pain I've ever experienced for 20 seconds. Tears were streaming down my face like I was watching the end of Old Yeller.

sissy.

My wife and I are both 62 y.o., and we are not getting the N1H1 vaccination. We have noticed that we don't get colds for maybe the last fifteen years. I think it is the lack of intense housecleaning. I keep the kitchen and bathroom clean enough to not freak out guests, and I do the dishes regularly. I always wipe up and clean after a spill. I do not vacuum regularly. Sometimes I will notice a cobweb near the ceiling, or some huge dust bunnies under a piece of furniture of the room in which I'm sitting, and then I'll get a broom and sweep.

Our kids never got sick until they went off to college. We don't have lots of interaction with other people, and when we do, we apply alcohol gel handcleaner after they leave. For another example, when I leave a public area, restroom, whatever, when I am outside I put on the goop. Those community doorhandles are bad. If Martha Stewart came by, she would leave screaming.

Getting the flu shot?

Yeah, eventually.

At present there's a bit of a shortage in these parts and it's first come first serve at the clinics so Spud'll let the old folks and young 'uns get theirs first and then get his when the hub bub and line ups die down.

Kinda getting a little concerned though.

Called a friend today at home and he answered sounding like he was on death's door. Apparently he got the H1N1. Said he thought he was gonna die fer a while there and then almost wished he was. He's getting better now but it was still a bit of an eye opener.

Today's local paper has pictures of a lot of the Canadians who have succumbed to date to this lethal flu.

A perfectly healthy 26 year old mother on one from near where Spud lives dies in a matter of hours after being diagnosed.

She never got her flu shot.

Sad is that.

Be Well.

I participated in the H1N1 clinical trials at St. Louis University in September/October. Received both the swine flu and seasonal flu shots. No side effects and doing fine. Weighed the risks and benefits and willing to be a guinea pig if it helps society as a whole. Understand how some people in low risk groups want to wait until high risk groups (children, pregnant women, asthmatics, obese etc) have gotten the vaccine first. FYI the CDC has reported 1000+ deaths from H1N1 in the US.

Nope.
Can't afford it.
No health insurance.

You don't need health insurance to get the vaccine, Hawk. It cost me $20.

I participated in the H1N1 clinical trials at St. Louis University in September/October. Received both the swine flu and seasonal flu shots. No side effects and doing fine.

It takes several months for the alien to grow large enough to eat its way out of your chest cavity. Just wait.

That's a lie, Zombie....I saw on TV where one ate it's way out of someone within HOURS of being infected.

"You don't need health insurance to get the vaccine, Hawk. It cost me $20."
#143 | Posted by rcade at 2009-11-03 01:23 PM | Reply

$20!!! Damn, where's Obamacare when you need it???

Nope. I laugh at the flu for some odd reason. Plenty of colds, but I haven't been stricken with the flu in any of its flavors.... you know, I think I've never had the flu. Weird.

Vaccine doesn't kill off the flu virus or eliminate its circulation or contagion!

Getting the flu vaccine doesn't mean it will prevent your body from contracting the virus nor does it prevent you from spreading that virus to someone else!!! If you're a health worker the vaccine "may" keep you from getting sick but it will not prevent you from contracting and spreading that virus to other people!!!

Getting the flu vaccine doesn't mean it will prevent your body from contracting the virus nor does it prevent you from spreading that virus to someone else!!! If you're a health worker the vaccine "may" keep you from getting sick but it will not prevent you from contracting and spreading that virus to other people!!!

That's only if you get the fake vaccine the government is giving to stupid people. Think of it as chlorination for the gene pool.

Judging by the number of batfuck insane loons on the retort, it looks like the gene pool is already teeming with floaters.

I couldn't afford it, the doc was charging $0.00!

Getting the flu vaccine doesn't mean it will prevent your body from contracting the virus nor does it prevent you from spreading that virus to someone else!!! If you're a health worker the vaccine "may" keep you from getting sick but it will not prevent you from contracting and spreading that virus to other people!

This is completely dead wrong. The flu vaccine prevents you from contracting the flu. It teaches your body's immune system to recognize and destroy infected flu virus cells before they multiply. People with the vaccine do not become healthy carriers spreading it to others. Their bodies kill off the virus before it gets anywhere.

149 - Guess you flunked Bio 101? Oh, wait, libs are all poli sci majors :P

Yep,
I'll get the H1N1 and the seasonal flu shot....we've already had cases of H1N1 on the campus where I teach.

#151 rcade

At least that is the big-pharma backers' claim.

Their bodies kill off the virus before it gets anywhere

#151 rcade

Assuming you are correct, there is still the issue that this theory is eradicated once they put out the FluMist FIRST, which CDC even admits the danger of shedding.

People with the vaccine do not become healthy carriers spreading it to others. Their bodies kill off the virus before it gets anywhere.

Technically, their bodies don't even need to kill off the virus since most flu vaccines use an inactivated virus.

they put out the FluMist FIRST, which CDC even admits the danger of shedding

Flumist is a live vaccine, but the strain is attenuated. Any live vaccine carries a small risk of reversion to virulence, but live vaccines have advantages over inactivated vaccines. They generally trigger stronger, longer lasting immunity with fewer doses.

If people who receive flumist shed substantial amounts of virus, they would passively vaccinate anyone they came in contact with. Only if the virus reverted would you have a problem with people actually becoming ill.

I looked up some stuff on how the virus is actually attenuated. The vaccine virus is an attenuated "master" strain with H1N1 antigens. There are five mutations that make the virus only able to grow well at temperatures below that of the human body five that otherwise render it non-pathogenic. That's more than are in the live polio vaccine, and reversion is quite rare with even that virus.

FluMist Insert:
"FluMist recipients should avoid close contact with immunocompromised individuals for at least 21 days."

I took it.

"FluMist recipients should avoid close contact with immunocompromised individuals for at least 21 days."

Is this supposed to be shocking or something? Since it is a live vaccine Flumist is contraindicated in immunocompromised individuals and this warning will appear.

Despite this, the virus being shed is still attenuated and unlikely to cause serious disease unless you are a transplant patient or have full blown AIDS. Clinical trials in HIV+ individuals uncovered no additional adverse reactions in immunosuppressed patients, but it's more prudent to give that population the inactivated vaccine.

#159 zombier

First, you attempt to shift the point. Rcade made a blanket statement that started this line of discussion, "Their bodies kill off the virus before it gets anywhere". I pointed out that this logic is flawed even if you believe in the vaccine.

Addressing your distraction point, 'Is this shocking', Not necessarily shocking, but very questionable as a mass vaccination policy. Of course people as yourself make a point to not mention it. Your explanation previously attempted to move the goalpoast, not even conceding there is a serious risk to immunocompromised, rather surreptitiously stating "carries a small risk of reversion" and "If people who receive flumist shed substantial amounts of virus, they would passively vaccinate anyone they came in contact with."

People do not need to be highly educated to catch on to your half-truths.

How many of the millions given the FluMist were given proper notification of this risk? What about the dozens of children they forcibly gave this to against the parent's express notification [which they routiinely deny unless the child ends up in the hospital].

First, you attempt to shift the point. Rcade made a blanket statement that started this line of discussion, "Their bodies kill off the virus before it gets anywhere". I pointed out that this logic is flawed even if you believe in the vaccine.

How is this flawed?

This is the exact point behind vaccines, to prevent replication of the virus and therefore to prevent spread.

Not necessarily shocking, but very questionable as a mass vaccination policy. Of course people as yourself make a point to not mention it. Your explanation previously attempted to move the goalpoast, not even conceding there is a serious risk to immunocompromised, rather surreptitiously stating "carries a small risk of reversion" and "If people who receive flumist shed substantial amounts of virus, they would passively vaccinate anyone they came in contact with."

As a general rule, immunocompromised people are shielded from just about everything, so as Zombie stated, it's not surprising it's not recommended they be shielded from live vaccines.

As Zombie also pointed out, however, due to the nature of the attenuation, exposure is not generally a problem.

And live vaccines are not questionable mass vaccination policy, the are superior for the very reasons Zomebie stated.

People do not need to be highly educated to catch on to your half-truths.

No, but they should at least have a modicum of education on a topic before spouting off on it.

How many of the millions given the FluMist were given proper notification of this risk?

What risk, that they may shed attenuated virus and vacciate the entire house hold? Shit, this sounds like a selling point to me.

Buy one Flumist vaccine, get X for free!

What about the dozens of children they forcibly gave this to against the parent's express notification [which they routiinely deny unless the child ends up in the hospital].

Link?

jpw comes to the rescue. #160 already answered all of your questions. Zombie attempted to propagate the lie of the FluMist with ridiculous blanket statements. I'm not interested in your distractions and distortions.

Zombie attempted to propagate the lie of the FluMist with ridiculous blanket statements.

What lie?

My God you know so little about something you talk so much about it's disturbing.

Not necessarily shocking, but very questionable as a mass vaccination policy.

Perhaps it is "questionable" policy if you know nothing about epidemiology, the immune system, or the influenza virus. The risks to the immunodeficient are low and easily manageable.

If you are a transplant surgeon, you already know to get the inactivated vaccine. If you're immunosuppressed, you have far more to worry about with wild-type H1N1 than an attenuated virus that is shed by someone who got flumist. The precautions you are already taking against H1N1 will protect you against the far rarer and less dangerous vaccine strain.

Your explanation previously attempted to move the goalpoast, not even conceding there is a serious risk to immunocompromised

There isn't a detectable risk to the mild to moderately immunocompromised if you look at the trials in HIV patients. This advisory is given out of prudence because in principle, the immunocompromised are risk of both having adverse reactions and transmitting any viruses that do revert.

I have explained why the risk is low on multiple occasions. LR is either too stupid or too stubborn to understand it.

rather surreptitiously stating "carries a small risk of reversion" and "If people who receive flumist shed substantial amounts of virus, they would passively vaccinate anyone they came in contact with."

It sounds like LR does not understand what "reversion" and "passive vaccination" refer to... maybe I wasn't clear earler. Reversion is the evolution of the vaccine strain into a virulent form. Passive vaccination is secondhand exposure to attenuated virus shed by a vaccine recipient.

The risk of reversion is astronomically low. All live flu vaccines manufactured by the makers of flumist are based on a single virus which has not been observed to revert. The only thing that differs are the HA and NA genes - the parts recognized by your immune system.

Passive vaccination is a good thing. If a substantial amount of virus is shed, it can expand vaccine coverage when supplies are limited or coverage is poor (as is the case today). One vaccinated child in a classroom may passively vaccinate anyone near him or her. Even the children of delusional fools like LR.

My God you know so little about something you talk so much about it's disturbing.

But it's also like a car wreck... I can't turn away no matter how disturbing it is.

Well, I can go now , but that's only because I need to eat lunch and get a snootful of flumist.

I'm from the Government and I'm here to help.

Yeah right...

...anyone else see a credibility problem here?

This really isn't a lot that I trust the Government for nowadays.

Except this...

...I do trust them to royally fuck shit up. They are reliable good at that.

Lawsuit to be filed tomorrow to address illegal forced vaccinations as well as hyperbolic propaganda campaign for mass vaccinations. Stay tuned.