Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Thursday, October 29, 2009

According to human rights lawyer John Sifton, the CIA tortured some of its detainees in the War on Terror so severely that it had to take measures to keep them alive so they could continue being tortured. Sifton, who is the executive director of One World Research, told an interviewer for Russia Today that there was both a CIA detention program and a military detention program and that "The CIA program was by far the most secretive. ... That's the one that only had a few dozen detainees at any given time -- but it's the one that saw the biggest abuses, the most serious forms of torture."

Liberal Blog Advertising Network

Menu

Subscriptions

Author Info

Species8472

MORE STORIES

Special Features

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in the discussion of this weblog entry should note the site's moderation policy.

COOL........ Those fucking terorists deserve it.

This is an utter disgrace. I can't believe any American worth their salt would condone this. This is illegal Immoral Unjust AND UnAmerican. This is NOT how our Country should behave EVER.

Larry

This story is what, five years old now?

COOL........ Those fucking terorists deserve it.

Which terrorists?

Cos when the state decides to maker torture a regularly implemented event it become a terrorist.

Worse, it justifies the acts of the other terrorists to an extent.

It also often posits a response that engenders a reciprocal response and so on and so forth, which all ensures that the cycle continues endlessly.

State terror or acts of terrorism by a bunch of mumbo-jumbo believing wigged-out tribesmen it all comes down to the same thing.

Morally objectionable, unjustifiable barbarism of the worst sort.

Supporting dictators who routinely in indulge in state terror or openly engaging in terrorist tactics like torture in order to try and stamp out terrorism is a mug's game.

Counter-productive in the extreme.

It produces results like having madmen fly into buildings thinking...

"Cool, these fucking terrorists deserve this"

Learn this at some point.

K?

Be Well.

/As he do
stage left.

Canadian torture consists of repeated playings of Gordon Lightfoot and Chilliwack songs, with Molson Golden the only beer available to wash down the extra salty popcorn.

with Molson Golden
.......#5 | Posted by cookfish

.....Molson Golden is really good beer.......

Molson Golden is nasty. No wonder you like that skunky swill, retard.

"The military subjected a lot of people to the same techniques, but without the precautions, and as a result a large number of detainees in military custody died. ... While they didn't use the worst forms of torture, like waterboarding, they often used sleep deprivation, forced standing, stress positions. ... When you combine these techniques ... they cause excruciating pain ... and the military used them on thousands and thousands of detainees."

Sifton commented that what he found most shocking was "the cold, clinical fashion in which they went about designing the program. They didn't want to commit outright physical torture ... so they went to psychologists and lawyers and they tried to design a program which was, in their minds, legal. ... They tried to make it legal and safe, but they just made it even more grotesque."

According to the top paragraph I pasted, are not the three techniques described considered enhanced interrogation and not torture? Does he not imply those resulted in deaths? As for the second paragragh, these techniques were in place and approved by Congress long before Bush came into office. The fact he claims they seeked out people to design a program which was already legal makes one think this article is skewed. Or he has a book coming out...

"According to human rights lawyer John Sifton"

Instead of taking this with a grain of salt you need a salt lick.

Overall, the group found, by the beginning of 2006, 'eight people in U.S. custody were tortured to death.'"

When this elicits responses like Chickenhawk's "COOL........ Those fucking terorists deserve it" is it any surprise that America is hated by some?

"According to human rights lawyer John Sifton"

Instead of taking this with a grain of salt you need a salt lick.

...because we all know that the only trustworthy lawyers are bloodsucking bastards-for-hire who would eat their children if they thought it would be profitable.

Who cares what "some" people hate.

"Some" people hate puppies. "Some" people hate rainbows. "Some" people care what others think, but "most" people realize you can't please everyone and don't give a flying fuck.

I for one am glad that these stories come out. Terrorists, and future terrorists need to know that they're playing with fire. All of this bullshit about treating them humanely and 3 hots and a cot doesn't scare anyone. Death via torture does.

Torture is EXTREMELY wrong. We should not do it.

Anything we do to OUR OWN TROOPS during training IS NOT TORTURE (For example: waterboarding)

Wrong or not, I have hard time having much sympathy for the terrorists. Heck, I'd love nothing better than to see em all slow roasted in a fire. But deserved or not, we should not torture. Just shoot em.

I support summary executions of terrorists, but not torture. (No Joke)

Anything we do to OUR OWN TROOPS during training IS NOT TORTURE (For example: waterboarding)

Wrong or not, I have hard time having much sympathy for the terrorists. Heck, I'd love nothing better than to see em all slow roasted in a fire. But deserved or not, we should not torture. Just shoot em.

I support summary executions of terrorists, but not torture. (No Joke)

#13 | Posted by USAF242 at 2009-10-29 03:46 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

How fucked up in the head can You get?????????

Oh and Waterboarding IS still Illegal It is Torture. I can not believe there are scum who still support torture. They surely don't support American Values.

Larry

Molson Golden is nasty.
......#7 | Posted by 101Chairborne

......it's a man's beer......I didn't say it would appeal to pussies.......

NOtice, good old Darth Vader put the kabosh on the IG investigation. He doesn't want it to come back on him now. I'd say he's lucky Obama doesn't seem to want to really investigate very much.

#17...

You would have to haul in members of Congress when you throw that net around Cheney. Think maybe that is why Obama is not wanting to investigate? Or do they get a pass because Cheney is somehow more culpable?

torture = good

abortion = bad

morality...

yes, they were kept alive solely for further torture. otherwise, they'd have let them die.

who said this again? oh, ya, a human rights lawyer.

It appears that one of Cheney's real purpose was to ensure that the next (presumably Democrat) Presidency would have to deal with the blowback from his torture programs. This was done purposefully and however legal the instigation of these programs and the "capture" of suspects, were also purposefully performed with the intention of such egregious war criminality that the embarrassment and silent resentment would force the next Democrat Presidency out of power. Dickwad Cheney and his crony intelligence "sent us up the bomb", so to speak.

So many CIA directors resigned to avoid the shoe servings fettered with ugly.

What will President Obama say when this publicly known issue of rendition and torture becomes internationally labeled as "uniquely American"? He's expected to be fire roasted, sealing in flavor. To capitulate to Cheney is to resign.

He is one stupid SOB. He is nucking futs.

What's a John Sifton, anyway? He does the Daily Beast thing and is big on the Daily Kos so he is too far right to be fair and balanced..or whatever the Obermann guy on Fox says is proper rightthink. Too bad he's not totally informed like the rest of us progressive socialists (or is that progressive lefties?) But, I guess if he says it's so it must be because he's quoted on the Retort.

Bravo. The U S of Assholes strikes again and the cysts to the right cheer. You guys are fucking pathetic. Hope your kids get tortured some day by some insane superpower...maybe china will come to ohio, rape you daughters and torture your sons. We'll all chuckle and chalk it up to Universal justice.

Bravo. The U S of Assholes strikes again and the cysts to the right cheer. You guys are fucking pathetic. Hope your kids get tortured some day by some insane superpower...maybe china will come to ohio, rape you daughters and torture your sons. We'll all chuckle and chalk it up to Universal justice.

#24 | POSTED BY PANCHOVILLA AT 2009-10-29 07:00 PM | REPLY | FLAG

hey hey hey...

Leave ohio out of this.

we have enough problems with unemployment without outsourcing the torture of our citizens to the Chinese.

These are good High paying jobs in a growth market and I for one will not stand for the workers of the state of Ohio being forced to watch some foreign guy torture and question his neighbors when he is completely capable of performing the job!

It's utterly amazing how what I would assume are normally lucid and intelligent posters would immediately assume such a story is true. The story is plain and clear idiocy. Some self-proclaimed human rights lawyer giving an interview to some Russians? Seriously, one might was well start citing Moveon.org and the Huffington Post as legitimate news sources. Pathetic. Both the story and the idiots here who so want the story to be true.

Of course if it were true, I'd buy them all a beer. Cheers!

I wonder if Christians were being tortured by some U.S. governmental law, or military agency, would the people that cry out in defense of terrorists cry out for the defense of the Christians???

Actually, this day in age I think it would be politically correct to torture Christians. Especially during the holidays.

It's utterly amazing how what I would assume are normally lucid and intelligent posters would immediately assume such a story is true. The story is plain and clear idiocy. Some self-proclaimed human rights lawyer giving an interview to some Russians? Seriously, one might was well start citing Moveon.org and the Huffington Post as legitimate news sources. Pathetic. Both the story and the idiots here who so want the story to be true.
#26 | Posted by SpokaneJim at 2009-10-29 07:14 PM

Oh, I'm sorry - do you have links for where MoveOn.org and Huffington Post have lied or posted lies? Anything?

I don't believe that you've ever read anything from either site, have you?

Here's a partial article from another site you might want to ban:

.. Torture, Political Manipulation and the American Psychological Association

But it is the second question that is probably more difficult to understand from afar. How could both the APA Board of Directors and the APA Council of Representatives support the military on this issue and subject the profession to such embarrassment by supporting a policy that is anathema to the vast majority of psychologists?

The moral decay and functional regression of an organization does not rise or fall with any single event any more than the fall of Rome truly occurred in 476 AD. What is clear to me, instead, is that the pluralistic and multi-faceted governing process that I witnessed when I first entered the APA in the early 1980's was sharply curtailed during the 1990's. Differences of opinion stopped and the APA suffered a terrible regression. Increasingly inbred, under the administration of Raymond Fowler, the association agenda was primarily and at times exclusively financial, focusing on making money both through real estate ventures and through what many of us felt was a an unwarranted, financially harsh treatment of APA employees.

More peculiarly, Fowler's "agenda" for APA was encapsulated in the phrase "working together" a noble idea that to the best of my knowledge was never attached to any actual substantive agenda. Instead, it served as a means of social control, a subtle injunction against raising any of the conflictual issues, challenges, or ideas that need to be addressed in any vital and accountable organization. The APA became placid and increasingly detached.

The result was that much of the activity of the APA Council of Representatives turned away from substantive matters into an odd system of fawning over one another. Many members appeared to me to simply bathe in the good feeling that came from "working together." For some, the bath was a narcissistic one and organizational regression became more debilitating. In other instances during this period, isolated dissent from rank and file members was stifled either with heavy handed letters from the APA attorney threatening legal action or by communications from prominent members of the APA governance threatening ethical action if policy protests were not discontinued.

The inept ability to deliberate on the torture issue was but the shocking denouement of an organizational process that was really set in motion in the early 1990's largely to serve the convenience of a very small number of individuals. ..

As a result of the lengthy era of regression, the governance of APA was ill prepared for thoughtful deliberation on a matter as important as the torture issue. As I have written in State of Confusion when people are confused they are eager to be told what is real. The governance was simply over its head in trying to effectively deliberate on such an issue when there was organized support on the other side coming from the military interests supported by Koocher and Levant and possibly DeLeon.

When the torture issue arose, the Council, despite the efforts of several council members, fell victim to some of the very silly arguments described above. Council members were told that to oppose psychologists participation in the detention actions was to cruelly suggest that our colleagues might engage in torture. In a fashion chillingly characteristic of the gaslighter it was implied that those who raised concern about torture, were themselves torturing their colleagues who were working in the military. One prominent member of the APA governance gratuitously raised the ethnicity of one of the military psychologists seemingly opening the possibility that the opponents to torture were racist.

These arguments were then followed with the grandiose closing argument that psychologists presence at the detention centers was critical to make sure torture did not recur. We psychologists had a moral duty to prevent immoral behavior. The piano player once aroused to the possibility of what was going on upstairs was now necessary to prevent it. Yes, these were the arguments that carried the day in APA deliberations and enabled the military to have its way with the APA. In the more discerning eyes of the world, they have very little credibility. ..

That's just a wonderful post there, Mr. Robot. Properly named, you are. I don't recall ever suggesting banning anything. Please show me where it was. Unlike so many liberals, I actually encourage reading a wide range of material from a wide range of sources, even, heaven forbid, Fox News (said with a whisper.) As for Moveon and Huffington, one only needs to pull up their basic sites to delve into every liberal fantasy imaginable. Of course, since you probably actually live in that fantasy world, it may just all seem perfectly normal. As I said, pathetic.

That's just a wonderful post there, Mr. Robot. Properly named, you are. I don't recall ever suggesting banning anything. Please show me where it was. Unlike so many liberals, I actually encourage reading a wide range of material from a wide range of sources, even, heaven forbid, Fox News (said with a whisper.) As for Moveon and Huffington, one only needs to pull up their basic sites to delve into every liberal fantasy imaginable. Of course, since you probably actually live in that fantasy world, it may just all seem perfectly normal. As I said, pathetic.
#32 | Posted by SpokaneJim at 2009-10-29 07:52 PM

Other than your regurgitations whining on about "liberals", did you read the article on APA involvement in torture?

Interesting how Abu Gharib is merely one of multiple locations all accused of similar atrocities, allegedly employed at the behest of military intelligence. The Red Cross and multiple human rights lawyers are still involved with Gitmo disputes. Now we can see that APA recognition of torture techniques are what have been instituted and are intended to torture, to unjustly imprison, to harm, to behave criminally.

Also, remember that according to intelligence experts the United States has never gotten actionable or correct intelligence from any of these torture sessions. Plus, the military conveniently "lost their tapes" just prior to investigations..

But you absolutely believe this is a "liberal fantasy"? And "I'm" pathetic? Perhaps to the arrogantly deluded and ignorant..

I can post links and data if you will read them and discuss cordially. I'll even admit that malfeasance of this nature is what I fear.

You really do live in your own little world, don't you.

You really do live in your own little world, don't you.

Terrorists, and future terrorists need to know that they're playing with fire

I'm pretty sure the nice folks driving suicide truck bombs through checkpoints (or flying planes into buildings) are way ahead of you on that one.

You really do live in your own little world, don't you.
#35 | Posted by SpokaneJim at 2009-10-29 09:07 PM

Apparently I have to share it with jerks..

CIA's Harsh Interrogation Techniques Described

.. According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al Qaeda's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last between two and two-and-a-half minutes before begging to confess.

"The person believes they are being killed, and as such, it really amounts to a mock execution, which is illegal under international law," said John Sifton of Human Rights Watch.

The techniques are controversial among experienced intelligence agency and military interrogators. Many feel that a confession obtained this way is an unreliable tool. Two experienced officers have told ABC that there is little to be gained by these techniques that could not be more effectively gained by a methodical, careful, psychologically based interrogation. According to a classified report prepared by the CIA Inspector General John Helgerwon and issued in 2004, the techniques "appeared to constitute cruel, and degrading treatment under the (Geneva) convention," the New York Times reported on Nov. 9, 2005.

It is "bad interrogation. I mean you can get anyone to confess to anything if the torture's bad enough," said former CIA officer Bob Baer.

Larry Johnson, a former CIA officer and a deputy director of the State Department's office of counterterrorism, recently wrote in the Los Angeles Times, "What real CIA field officers know firsthand is that it is better to build a relationship of trust than to extract quick confessions through tactics such as those used by the Nazis and the Soviets."

One argument in favor of their use: time. In the early days of al Qaeda captures, it was hoped that speeding confessions would result in the development of important operational knowledge in a timely fashion.

However, ABC News was told that at least three CIA officers declined to be trained in the techniques before a cadre of 14 were selected to use them on a dozen top al Qaeda suspects in order to obtain critical information. In at least one instance, ABC News was told that the techniques led to questionable information aimed at pleasing the interrogators and that this information had a significant impact on U.S. actions in Iraq.

According to CIA sources, Ibn al Shaykh al Libbi, after two weeks of enhanced interrogation, made statements that were designed to tell the interrogators what they wanted to hear. Sources say Al Libbi had been subjected to each of the progressively harsher techniques in turn and finally broke after being water boarded and then left to stand naked in his cold cell overnight where he was doused with cold water at regular intervals.

His statements became part of the basis for the Bush administration claims that Iraq trained al Qaeda members to use biochemical weapons. Sources tell ABC that it was later established that al Libbi had no knowledge of such training or weapons and fabricated the statements because he was terrified of further harsh treatment.

"This is the problem with using the waterboard. They get so desperate that they begin telling you what they think you want to hear," one source said. ..

Terrorists, and future terrorists need to know that they're playing with fire

If they are so willing to die, we should oblige them in the most violent and painful manner possible. After all, that's what they plan for others. Isn't it interesting that so many wish to give these murderers all the rights and privileges that they (the murderers) are fighting to destroy? They don't wish those rights to exist, then they should not receive the advantage of those rights. If they fail to kill themselves, then a quick bullet to the head would do fine as well. Saves us all the whining about torture, too.

CIA Torture Investigation, Dick Cheney Slammed
Saturday, August 29, 2009 at 12:19 pm

WASHINGTON: Former US vice president Dick Cheney Friday slammed a Justice Department probe into alleged abusive interrogation techniques by CIA agents as an "outrageous political act."

In an interview with Fox News on Sunday to be aired at the weekend, Cheney said the investigation would do long term damage to America's ability to protect itself, adding the administration should not punish agents for doing their jobs.

Attorney General Eric Holder announced on Monday he had named assistant US attorney John Durham to review the CIA interrogations of detainees at secret sites overseas to determine whether any laws were broken.

But Cheney, who has called on the Central Intelligence Agency to release proof that harsh interrogation techniques provided key information in stopping attacks, slammed the probe.

"We had a track record now of eight years of defending the nation against any further mass casualty attacks from al Qaeda," he told Fox.

"The approach of the Obama administration should be to come to those people who were involved in that policy and say, How did you do it? What were the keys to keeping this country safe over that period of time?'" Cheney said.

"Instead, they're out there now threatening to disbar the lawyers who gave us the legal opinions threatening contrary to what the president originally said.

"They're going to go out and investigate the CIA personnel who carried out those investigations," Cheney added.

The Department of Justice on Monday revealed details of a report by a CIA inspector general showing that interrogators at secret CIA prisons threatened to kill the children of September 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

Other detainees were threatened with the rape of family members, execution, shooting and torture.

"I have concluded that the information known to me warrants opening a preliminary review into whether federal laws were violated in connection with the interrogation of specific detainees at overseas locations," Holder said.

But Durham's probe will be limited to examining whether there is sufficient evidence to charge individual agents with violating the special interrogation rules they were given after the September 11, 2001 attacks.

If Durham's investigation concludes that US laws were broken, it is not clear whether Holder would chose to go ahead with prosecutions.

Obama had previously made clear that CIA interrogators, acting on the basis of legal guidelines drawn up by former president George W. Bush's administration would not face the wrath of the law.

Obama had previously made clear that CIA interrogators, acting on the basis of legal guidelines drawn up by former president George W. Bush's administration would not face the wrath of the law.
#39 | Posted by redlightrobot

That's Obama demonstrating his liberal credentials.

"Terrorists, and future terrorists need to know that they're playing with fire"

If they are so willing to die, we should oblige them in the most violent and painful manner possible. After all, that's what they plan for others. Isn't it interesting that so many wish to give these murderers all the rights and privileges that they (the murderers) are fighting to destroy? They don't wish those rights to exist, then they should not receive the advantage of those rights. If they fail to kill themselves, then a quick bullet to the head would do fine as well. Saves us all the whining about torture, too.
#38 | Posted by SpokaneJim at 2009-10-29 09:22 PM

A "quick bullet" would allegedly deny us the information that would save more lives, Mr. Bauer.

False imprisonment, mistreatment and torture creates terrorist response. There are elements in our government and military who take advantage of their position, and are traitorous, dangerous and unlikely to cease activities without proper handling. True. However, playing into either side without recognizing this is utter stupidity, imo.

The people whom we have imprisoned and tortured are allegedly components of larger operations which may or may not exist. Shouldn't we act appropriately and not instigate reprisal from all sides with allegations of wrongful imprisonment, torture and murder? War crimes are war crimes - no matter who tells you otherwise.

Torture is obviously criminal. Cheney is involved in much planning and operations involving rendition and torture during his stay at the White House. His own people admit as much. Why can't you?

What color is the sky in your world, Mr. Robot? How does it feel to be an apologist for terrorists? Are you saying that the Clinton administration was involved in torture? After all 9/11 was planned, organized, and financed entirely during his administration. Get a grip on reality, it seems you've really lost it.

"Obama had previously made clear that CIA interrogators, acting on the basis of legal guidelines drawn up by former president George W. Bush's administration would not face the wrath of the law."
#39 | Posted by redlightrobot

That's Obama demonstrating his liberal credentials.
#40 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-10-29 09:27 PM

Then why this:

Ex-CIA Directors Want Obama To Kill Justice Department's Torture Probe
By Jason Leopold, The Public Record, Sep 19th, 2009

Seven former directors of the CIA sent a letter to President Barack Obama Friday asking him to take the unprecedented step of personally blocking a Justice Department "review" of cases where agency officers and contractors allegedly exceeded legal guidelines during the interrogations of "war on terror" detainees.

The ex-directors claim the investigation authorized last month by Attorney General Eric Holder into will "only help Al Qaeda elude US intelligence and plan future operations" and "will continue to make it harder for intelligence officers to maintain the momentum of operations that have saved lives and helped protect America from further attacks."

Those statements are nearly identical to warnings made by Republican lawmakers in recent weeks, which have been disputed by veteran interrogators and a former Bush administration official as a clear-cut attempt to shield top Bush officials who came up with the torture policies, in violation of anti-torture laws, from scrutiny.

Three of the former directorsGeorge Tenet, Michael Hayden and Porter Gosswere personally involved in the policy discussions and decisions during George W. Bush's tenure that lead to the implementation of "enhanced interrogation techniques." According to recently released documents, CIA headquarters in Langley micromanaged the torture of at least one high-value detainee, Abu Zubaydah, in 2002 when Tenet was CIA director.

Another former director who signed the letter, James Schlesinger, conducted an investigation into the abuse and torture of prisoners at the infamous Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

The other three former directors are John Deutch, R. James Woolsey, both of who served in the Clinton administration and William Webster, a former federal judge who served as CIA director in the administration of George H.W. Bush and is currently chairman of the Homeland Security Advisory Council. Tenet also served as CIA director during the last three years of the Clinton administration.

Repeatedly invoking 9/11 in their letter, the former CIA directors asked Obama to exercise [his] authority to reverse Attorney General Holder's August 24 decision to re-open the criminal investigation of CIA interrogations that took place following the attacks of September 11." ..

I don't get what you're saying, redlight.

I was being sarcastic in my #40.

Sighhhhhhhhhhhhh there's no justice in this world. only conmen and congames. Such a disgrace.

Larry

What color is the sky in your world, Mr. Robot? How does it feel to be an apologist for terrorists? Are you saying that the Clinton administration was involved in torture? After all 9/11 was planned, organized, and financed entirely during his administration. Get a grip on reality, it seems you've really lost it.
#42 | Posted by SpokaneJim at 2009-10-29 09:39 PM

The sky is perpetually multi-hued. At daybreak it can appear as beautiful as sunset. In between those moments let's get this idea clear:

There is little enough excuse to commit torture without invoking 9/11 mysticism. If you have something to claim, let's hear it. Do you blame President Bill Clinton for the events of 9/11?

Also, don't you care if we get the right persons? Has it ever occurred to you that the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan weren't to "liberate", but instead for a hidden agenda? Don't you give a shit if people die for these lies? What's more, if you don't care at least you demonstrate the desire to "trust" that torture works - so why not "verify" as well? Don't like what you've read? Well, there are plenty more professionals who have yet to speak out, write a book or expose even more anti-American mockery from your precious BushCo.

I don't get what you're saying, redlight.
I was being sarcastic in my #40.
#44 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-10-29 09:45 PM

I did kinda suspect that, but I'm hoping you can help me understand what President Obama might have planned since he's taking advise on ceasing the torture investigations. It seems rather.. odd.

Like I stated earlier - CIA officials drop off like testicles at a leper colony, but now they are coming forward - and for the wrong reasons? Strangeness.

I get the feeling Obama is pulling a Gerald R Ford. It makes Me so G-d Damned Furious. Such a shame really.

Larry

The question, Mr. Robot, is not whether I believe Clinton was responsible for 9/11, the question is, if, as you claim, "[f]alse imprisonment, mistreatment and torture creates [a]terrorist response," who do YOU believe is responsible for 9/11, USS Cole, embassy bombings, etc.? Clearly you are blaming Bush and Cheney for the current affairs, but your logic must also then extent to others as well. Frankly I blame terrorists for terrorism. But you, like our esteemed apologizer-in-chief, wish to cry to the world and whimper at their feet, boohooing about how awful the US has become. Shame on you.

"but I'm hoping you can help me understand what President Obama might have planned since he's taking advise on ceasing the torture investigations. It seems rather.. odd."

Me? The President doesn't even accept my emails any more.

and now we regress into a feudal society

the CIA is evil

What color is the sky in your world, Mr. Robot? How does it feel to be an apologist for terrorists? Are you saying that the Clinton administration was involved in torture? After all 9/11 was planned, organized, and financed entirely during his administration. Get a grip on reality, it seems you've really lost it.

#42 | Posted by SpokaneJim

hahahahaha you are so stupid, how do you even figure out how to turn on your computer?

www.cnn.com

Why would the US let a High Value Target like Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi's go to Libya? Think my son, expand your horizons.

If gaining useful intelligence to keep us safe why would we let such a HVT like al libi out of our control?

Do you think we could say we got all out of him that we could have? If gaining intelligence was the goal how can you justify letting such a HVT out of our control? He could have had more intelligence that we could have gained from additional tort er interrogation.

We have met the enemy and the enemy is us unfortunately. Such a shame really. I expected better from My "Leaders". Maybe one day we can Right our collective wrongs. A guy can dream can't He?? Sighhhhhhhhh

Larry

boohooing about how awful the US has become.

yeah america just lies to start wars.

Terrorists, and future terrorists need to know that they're playing with fire

If they are so willing to die, we should oblige them in the most violent and painful manner possible. After all, that's what they plan for others. Isn't it interesting that so many wish to give these murderers all the rights and privileges that they (the murderers) are fighting to destroy? They don't wish those rights to exist, then they should not receive the advantage of those rights. If they fail to kill themselves, then a quick bullet to the head would do fine as well. Saves us all the whining about torture, too.

#38 | Posted by SpokaneJim

we should oblige them in the most violent and painful manner possible?

guess e could just hack off their heads with knives then we will be just like them.

COOL........ Those fucking terorists deserve it.

The jerk can't spell terrorist but he thinks he is qualified to sentence them all to death without a trial. Is that what happens to people when they spend their life shoveling chicken shit?

"you are so stupid, how do you even figure out how to turn on your computer?"

Seriously, that's the best you can do? If all you can do is insult other posters, at least be creative. As far as hacking off their heads, that's fine by me. They've proven they deserve nothing better. Animals should be treated as animals. Of course these people are far lower than animals. But feel free to continue to apologize for them.

The question, Mr. Robot, is not whether I believe Clinton was responsible for 9/11, the question is, if, as you claim, "[f]alse imprisonment, mistreatment and torture creates [a]terrorist response," who do YOU believe is responsible for 9/11, USS Cole, embassy bombings, etc.? Clearly you are blaming Bush and Cheney for the current affairs, but your logic must also then extent to others as well. Frankly I blame terrorists for terrorism. But you, like our esteemed apologizer-in-chief, wish to cry to the world and whimper at their feet, boohooing about how awful the US has become. Shame on you.
#49 | Posted by SpokaneJim at 2009-10-29 10:06 PM

So, you would rather not verify whom and what, just trust that torture "works" on your behalf.

If you understood even the least amount of truth you would feel shame from it.

Dick Cheney and seven of the ex-CIA directors don't want President Obama to continue the investigations into CIA activities involving torture, even though the President promised not to incarcerate the agents involved. They might assume that his promise is lacking credibility - possibly because we'll learn that outsourced agents are not covered by his oath. They will also uncover how long this has been going on in our name and he will feel shame from that knowledge. That's the caliber of comprehension that you lack.

COOL........ Those fucking terorists deserve it.

Oh no, a typo! Kill the poster!! He must know nothing about anything! He must be too stupid to turn on a computer!! His opinion is worthless!!

This is an utter disgrace. I can't believe any American worth their salt would condone this. This is illegal Immoral Unjust AND UnAmerican. This is NOT how our Country should behave EVER.

Larry

#2 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2009-10-29 07:37 AM

Yeah, sucks. Maybe we can start treating our women like they do.

This story is bullshit.

"Let's make our country bad so softheads like Larry Mohr will comply."

"sounds good, there are plenty of more gullible weak minds where he came from"

sad.....

You're wasting you time, Mato, too many here want the story to be true. It feeds their hatred of the their country and the past president. It justifies their self loathing, and justifies all the crap they've been slinging for the past 8 years. It's irrelevent whether the story is legitimate. It could have come from another Michael Moore movie, and they would weep with joy at having another talking point to pant in ecstasy over.

I get the feeling Obama is pulling a Gerald R Ford. It makes Me so G-d Damned Furious.

#48 | Posted by LarryMohr

What the fuck did Jerry Ford ever do to you Larry?

You're wasting you time, Mato, too many here want the story to be true. It feeds their hatred of the their country and the past president. It justifies their self loathing, and justifies all the crap they've been slinging for the past 8 years. It's irrelevent whether the story is legitimate. It could have come from another Michael Moore movie, and they would weep with joy at having another talking point to pant in ecstasy over.
#61 | Posted by SpokaneJim at 2009-10-29 10:40 PM

Can you honestly read "hate our country" in any of our posts? Hate at what people have done in our name, absolutely, but not a total rage against National identity.

I don't pick on people for their lack of spelling - SeaMonkey catches more errors than I would like to have made - so that's not the kind of recognition in the posts I seek out. Grammar is amorphous at worst and I think that I can live with that. It's that you make sweeping judgment about the nature of this issue - that the torture saves lives, the prisoners are guilty, trials are not necessary, rendition is key to gaining intelligence, etc. These are proven false throughout all of recorded history.

PORTIA: Upon the rack, Bassanio! then confess
What treason there is mingled with your love.
BASSANIO: None but that ugly treason of mistrust,
Which makes me fear the enjoying of my love:
There may as well be amity and life
Tween snow and fire, as treason and my love.
PORTIA: Ay, but I fear you speak upon the rack,
Where men enforced do speak anything
.
BASSANIO: Promise me life, and I'll confess the truth.
PORTIA: Well then, confess and live.

"I get the feeling Obama is pulling a Gerald R Ford. It makes Me so G-d Damned Furious.
#48 | Posted by LarryMohr"

What the fuck did Jerry Ford ever do to you Larry?
#62 | Posted by Gimme_a_Scotch at 2009-10-29 10:53 PM

I totally didn't get it, but it sounds intriguing. Could someone inform me, please?

After seeing a kid nearly get run over by a bus who was riding a skate board with two wheels I have come to the conclusion that manufactures should be held responsible for every thing the make that can kill a kid. They could care less if the product they make is defective by design.

"You're wasting you time, Mato, too many here want the story to be true."

Are you kidding me? Do you really believe that when you type it out? We want the story to not be true. Its absurd of you to suggest otherwise. This article doesn't exist in a vacuum, you know. For a few years now, there have been doctors, and psychiatrists speaking about these issues. Medical and Psychchiatric Boards were well aware of how their profession was contributing to the interrogations and it was hotly debated.

The headline reads "CIA Kept Detainees Alive to Keep Torturing Them". I think that may be the beginning of your problem. The thing is, in a sense its true. The doctors and psychologists that oversaw every interrogation were there primarily to put the breaks on tactics that pushed the limits of safety and/or professional ethics.

But the sad part is that they were needed in the first place.

You have to ask yourself, why where they needed, the answer being because we were going to be pushing interrogations right up to those limits. The thing is, that's a fine line and its different for every person, so sometimes, we slipped, fell, leaped over it, and then we needed those doctors to step in and revive or otherwise treat the detainee.

The problem then becomes is the interrogation over because of what just happened to the detainee? I don't think that you will deny that our answer, especially when we believed the detainee had information yet to be obtained, would be no, those events, however they may have transpired, will not be cause to end the interrogation.

So again, while the headline reads, "CIA Kept Detainees Alive to Keep Torturing Them" is not precisely correct, that is what wound up happening.

"I get the feeling Obama is pulling a Gerald R Ford. It makes Me so G-d Damned Furious.
#48 | Posted by LarryMohr"

What the fuck did Jerry Ford ever do to you Larry?
#62 | Posted by Gimme_a_Scotch

I totally didn't get it, but it sounds intriguing. Could someone inform me, please?
#64 | Posted by redlightrobot

I thought Larry was saying that if the President is not interested in investigating and if justified, prosecuting all the way up the line, those who authorized or engaged in torture techniques, then he is giving a defacto pardon to those whom he refuses to prosecute, a la Gerald Ford and Nixon. We've executed others for doing these same things to us our our allies.

Yeah, sucks. Maybe we can start treating our women like they do.

#60 | Posted by Mato at 2009-10-29 10:31 PM | Reply | Flag

You'd like to.... you already want to tell them what to do with their bodies while the dead beat dad is nowhere to be found....

I thought Larry was saying that if the President is not interested in investigating and if justified, prosecuting all the way up the line, those who authorized or engaged in torture techniques, then he is giving a defacto pardon to those whom he refuses to prosecute, a la Gerald Ford and Nixon. We've executed others for doing these same things to us our our allies.

Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-10-29 11:19 PM | Reply

1,000,000 Drudge Retort Points for being exactly correct HC. Obama instead of doing His Job IE Prosecuting crimes committed by persons within the Federal Government He is taking the easy way out and pulling a Gerald R Ford. You couldn't be more correct if You tried HC.

Larry

What the fuck did Jerry Ford ever do to you Larry?

#62 | Posted by Gimme_a_Scotch at 2009-10-29 10:53 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

NOTHING. I was a little tyke when Gerald R Ford was President. Unless of course I can blame getting into mischief on Him during those Years. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm On Second thought it WAS His fault....................KIDDI
NG.

Larry

"I thought Larry was saying that if the President is not interested in investigating and if justified, prosecuting all the way up the line, those who authorized or engaged in torture techniques, then he is giving a defacto pardon to those whom he refuses to prosecute, a la Gerald Ford and Nixon. We've executed others for doing these same things to us our our allies.
Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-10-29 11:19 PM"

1,000,000 Drudge Retort Points for being exactly correct HC. Obama instead of doing His Job IE Prosecuting crimes committed by persons within the Federal Government He is taking the easy way out and pulling a Gerald R Ford. You couldn't be more correct if You tried HC.
Larry
#69 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2009-10-29 11:49 PM

Why do you imagine he's taking the advise of Cheney and the CIA ex-seven? What possible reason could they have for directing his actions thus if not to invent an even more difficult position for him leading into the 2012 elections?

Imo, to capitulate to Cheney is to resign.

Why do you imagine he's taking the advise of Cheney and the CIA ex-seven? What possible reason could they have for directing his actions thus if not to invent an even more difficult position for him leading into the 2012 elections?

Imo, to capitulate to Cheney is to resign.

Posted by redlightrobot at 2009-10-30 12:14 AM | Reply

The way I read Him is this way. He has His own agenda for what He wants to accomplish and that agenda comes first before righting wrongs and prosecuting wrong doers.(Which is very depressing for Me because I had such High hopes for the man) So He is ignoring these very real very necessary investigations because they conflict with His own agenda. It's like if I had things I wanted to get done but something like this was rearing it's ugly head I would simply ignore it and keep to My own agenda. Which I would definitely say is TOTALLY Wrong.

Larry

Isn't it interesting that so many wish to give these murderers all the rights and privileges that they (the murderers) are fighting to destroy?

Congratulations, you've managed to stumble upon the crucial difference between "Us" and "Them."

We don't torture people.
They do.
We don't kill people because they worship the wrong God.
They do.

Get it?

They don't wish those rights to exist, then they should not receive the advantage of those rights.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

Does that ring a bell? You might have heard it back in middle school.

You think you're a patriot, that's the saddest part. By your own words, you reject this country's ideals. Pathetic.

Why do you imagine he's taking the advise of Cheney and the CIA ex-seven? What possible reason could they have for directing his actions thus if not to invent an even more difficult position for him leading into the 2012 elections?
Imo, to capitulate to Cheney is to resign.
Posted by redlightrobot

The cynic in me says its because he doesn't want that same eye turned toward him in 8 years time as he may be carrying on with some of the same procedures.

"The way I read Him is this way. He has His own agenda for what He wants to accomplish and that agenda comes first before righting wrongs and prosecuting wrong doers.(Which is very depressing for Me because I had such High hopes for the man) So He is ignoring these very real very necessary investigations because they conflict with His own agenda. It's like if I had things I wanted to get done but something like this was rearing it's ugly head I would simply ignore it and keep to My own agenda. Which I would definitely say is TOTALLY Wrong."
#72 | Posted by LarryMohr

Perhaps. I'd argue that he has certain constitutional obligations, but if he pursues them, everything that he'd like to do during his tenure will be dead in the water. Legacy minded just like any other president.

"you are so stupid, how do you even figure out how to turn on your computer?"

Seriously, that's the best you can do? If all you can do is insult other posters, at least be creative. As far as hacking off their heads, that's fine by me. They've proven they deserve nothing better. Animals should be treated as animals. Of course these people are far lower than animals. But feel free to continue to apologize for them.

#57 | Posted by SpokaneJim

and of course you gutlessly avoid answering the questions posed about al libi.

your whole world view is fubar son

Hope your kids get tortured some day by some insane superpower...maybe china will come to ohio, rape you daughters and torture your sons. We'll all chuckle and chalk it up to Universal justice.

#24 | Posted by panchovilla

If my kids were involved with a group who's desire it was to kill as many of a certain country's population then I would expect them to be treated pretty harshly if they were caught by that country. That being said I don't think we should torture these guys. But, I also don't really believe this happened. This is the word of a human rights activist and they can get pretty creative.

"You couldn't be more correct if You tried HC."

*Looks down blushing and kicks at the floor.

VCS-ACLU FOIA Lawsuit in the News: Editorial Calls for Release of Bush Era Torture Pictures
Written by New York Times
Monday, 26 October 2009 14:29

We share concerns about inflaming anti-American feelings and jeopardizing soldiers, but the best way to truly avoid that is to demonstrate that this nation has turned the page on Mr. Bush's shameful policies. Withholding the painful truth shows the opposite.
Like the insistence on overly broad claims of secrecy, it also avoids an important step toward accountability, which is the only way to ensure that the abuses of the Bush years are never repeated. We urge Mr. Gates to use his discretion under the new law to release the photos, sparing Americans more cover-up.
Editorial: The Cover-Up Continues
www.veteransforcommonsense.org

so much for those calling me a lock step obama-ite....eh?

While I don't agree with everything he does/doesn't do, I still refrain from denigrating our potus of less than a year, who inherited, not created these problems our country faces today.

But, I also don't really believe this happened.

Now that's a stretch. The CIA got paid pretty damned good to torture these guys. If they let them die they would loose money and their toys. The CIA is not in the business to allow compassionate euthanasia.

"You're wasting you time, Mato, too many here want the story to be true."

Are you kidding me? Do you really believe that when you type it out? We want the story to not be true. Its absurd of you to suggest otherwise. This article doesn't exist in a vacuum, you know. For a few years now, there have been doctors, and psychiatrists speaking about these issues. Medical and Psychchiatric Boards were well aware of how their profession was contributing to the interrogations and it was hotly debated.

The headline reads "CIA Kept Detainees Alive to Keep Torturing Them". I think that may be the beginning of your problem. The thing is, in a sense its true. The doctors and psychologists that oversaw every interrogation were there primarily to put the breaks on tactics that pushed the limits of safety and/or professional ethics.

But the sad part is that they were needed in the first place.

You have to ask yourself, why where they needed, the answer being because we were going to be pushing interrogations right up to those limits. The thing is, that's a fine line and its different for every person, so sometimes, we slipped, fell, leaped over it, and then we needed those doctors to step in and revive or otherwise treat the detainee.

The problem then becomes is the interrogation over because of what just happened to the detainee? I don't think that you will deny that our answer, especially when we believed the detainee had information yet to be obtained, would be no, those events, however they may have transpired, will not be cause to end the interrogation.

So again, while the headline reads, "CIA Kept Detainees Alive to Keep Torturing Them" is not precisely correct, that is what wound up happening.

#66 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine

Yeah, well "rough men stand ready to visit violence upon those who would do us harm." Don't play if you can't pay.

After all 9/11 was planned, organized, and financed entirely during his administration. Get a grip on reality, it seems you've really lost it.
#42 | POSTED BY SPOKANEJIM AT 2009-10-29 09:39 PM |

Here's a grip on reality you seem to be missing:

The first WTC bombing occurred in Feb 93, barely a month after Clinton took office. On whose watch was that first attack on our country planned, organized and financed?

Carter's eh?

Now, tell us, after that attack, when the repugs fielded their first congressional majority in 40 years, how did they respond to that attack? Who was the main focus of their investigative powers? Who did they consider their foremost enemy? Who did they spend $70 million of taxpayer dollars on 11 bogus investigations, yielding ZERO indictments?

Our own potus, eh?

Get a grip on that bud.

But, I also don't really believe this happened.

It happened.

thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com

Don't worry, they didnt' keep them all alive..... over 100 detainees died during "enhanced" interrogations.

They didn't keep 'em all alive.
www.motherjones.com

Comments are closed for this entry.


Drudge Retort

Home | News | Comments | User Blogs | Nooner | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Copyright 2012 World Readable