a slow pull-out is obama's plan, so that when time comes for the last soldier to leave, he'll have been killed already.

a slow pull-out is obama's plan

#1 | Posted by NerfHerder

Ya gotta pull it out quik or you will leave some of your stuff in there. I know slow feels better to you libs but.. we can't abort this little one.

More blood on B-Rock's hands. His indecisiveness is killing soldiers.

Come on Barry, flip a coin and let Rahm make a decision. Rahm will call it in the air.

"Rahm will call it in the air"

Heads I win, tails you lose, and if it lands on its side, your an anti-semite.

More blood on B-Rock's hands. His indecisiveness is killing soldiers

doing the right thing is abandoning the republican and democrat parties and going it alone and withdrawing completely. its barack does it, he'll be escorted to dealey plaza for sure.

When are you libs going to get mad at the Bamster, he ain't found Osama yet. Why hell, your guy is acting somewhat like a Phonycon on this issue. I can't wait until he sends 40K more troops into that mess in Afghanistan, will the leftists finally go after this guy.

- he ain't found Osama yet

Cheney Bush spent 7 years ignoring the "unimportant" Osama, and now we see the Pakis pushing into his hidey hole.

Diplomacy werks.

"More blood on B-Rock's hands. His indecisiveness is killing soldiers."

#3 | Posted by 101Chairborne

Tired of the dithering, are 'ya?

I'll bet you were one of the paying attendees at Dubya's recent public speaking engagement.

What about the fucking screwball who opened the blood flood gates from the start?

Obama is the cleanup guy with the mop who can't seem to work fast enough.

Obama isn't working at all, or did you miss the articles about his golf, failed Olympic Grovelling, and Wednesday Night Hip Hop Parties?

I swear, I remember such petty complaining from the Bush haters, but now I see a lot of excuse making from those same haters.

Peace Prize Material™

"When the common soldiers are too strong and their officers too weak, the result is INSUBORDINATION. When the officers are too strong and the common soldiers too weak, the result is COLLAPSE. When the higher officers are angry and insubordinate, and on meeting the enemy give battle on their own account from a feeling of resentment, before the commander-in-chief can tell whether or not he is in a position to fight, the result is RUIN."
- Sun Tzu

Why is this potus trying to RUIN U.S.?

"He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight. He will win who knows how to handle both superior and inferior forces. He will win whose army is animated by the same spirit throughout all its ranks. He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared. He will win who has military capacity and is not interfered with by the sovereign."
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War

"before the commander-in-chief can tell whether or not he is in a position to fight, the result is RUIN."

NANC your quote is fine, your understanding of it is lacking.

"He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight - Sun Tsu"

'Ya got to know when to hold 'em, no when to fold 'em, no when to walk away, and know when to run'
-Kenny Rogers Tsu

"I swear, I remember such petty complaining from the Bush haters, but now I see a lot of excuse making from those same haters."

During the first couple of years in Afghanistan nearly all of us were unanimous in our support for that war and many of us on the left were critical only of the redirection of resources from Afghanistan to Iraq. IT turns out, we were exactly right. Now, after seven years of under resourcing this war you expect Obama to turn it around in nine months. Real fair there.

danni, that is why they made the president the commander in chief-- this country understood that if a sovereign didn't interfere woth the military the military could overrule law and impose its will upon others, including the lawmakers..

Americans die while the narcissist Obama decides.

"My old pappy used to say
"He who fights and runs away...

"... can run away another day. "

Bret Maverick

Explain it to my in your special danni way, please.

-Real fair there.

The only concern these clowns have is "Obama's Waterloo", whether it be health care or Afghanistan or anything else they can think of.

Fairness isn't in their vocabulary..... along with thousands of other multisyllabic words.

Barry promised along with countless other things that he can't get done to end this war, that is why all the suckers voted for him. Now defenders like Danni say it is impossable. I didn't hear the Libs or Barry saying that during the election. That's all.

"Now defenders like Danni say it is impossable."

I have not said that, I have said I am beginning to think that but if it is at all possible to win in Afghanistan within several years then I think we should try, if however, we are looking at a decade more of war, sorry I don't think the country will sustain that and any additional troops lost would be wasted lives if we don't have the stamina to stay for that long. Obama has to do more than just evaluate the situation in Afghanistan, he also has to evaluate the situation here at home, if the support for this war is waning then he shouldn't send troops to fight a war the nation won't let them complete.

He's dragging his big brogans, danni! Meanwhile real people are dying due to his indecision - if he's this scatterbrained about WAR, perhaps he should allow the generals to conduct said war and stay out of the way?

"Barry promised along with countless other things that he can't get done to end this war,"

That isn't even true at all. He actually said he would end the war in Iraq but he also said he would stop the under resourcing of the war in Afghanistan which the war in Iraq caused.

"Meanwhile real people are dying due to his indecision"

That is a meaningless talking point. If he had made his decision two or three weeks ago none of those troops would even be in Afghanistan yet, and there is now way to know if any of the deaths which have occurred would have been prevented. Claiming that is just plain dishonest.

Hooray!

Sincerely,

The GOP

I will tell you exactly how stupid your Obama is.

You may be aware that Pakistan is killing whatever taliban were left over in Pakistan and is doing an excellent job of it.

We told the Americans that many many taliban will escape across the border (Waziristan and Afghanistan have a common border) into Afghanistan.... you should tell your forward-bases to get ready to intercept or at least track them.

The day after Pakistan started it's operation, THE AMERICAN FORWARD-BASES WERE ABANDONED!

There is right now NOBODY stopping them from coming into Afghanistan. LOL

So expect to see many many more dead American soldiers (as you can see it's already starting) because your stupid Obama does the opposite of what we warned him to do.

I think No-Bull-Please-Prize has gone to his head...

Tosser's country let them hide out for years and now criticizes the US for not following their plan.
Let's not forget, the US had to pressure them to do anything even when they were within 60 miles of their capital city. That Pakistanis brilliantly watched their Indian border and were ready to repel an attack from that country.

I will also predict, there will be no more troops sent to Afghanistan. Or maybe a few to give the impression that he wrestled with a heavy heavy decision. LOL

Fact is, the supply lines can't take much more.

If anyone in the US Govt. is reading this, I hope you stupid people realize, that the only way you will get what you want in Afghanistan... without all the bloodshed, is:

1. Get rid of NATO. They are counter-productive cowards, incompetent, and they do deals with the enemy and sell them intel and stolen weapons.

2. Get rid of the drug-lord Karsick.

"Get rid of the drug-lord Karsick."

I suspect his attempt to steal the election is part of what made Obama hold up on the decision to commit more troops. The guy is just too openly corrupt and it doesn't look like the Afghan people will support his government.

Funny seeing lefties commit to open ended war.

We already punished the country that attacked us. Time to come home.

-Funny seeing lefties commit to open ended war.

Funny seeing rubbish sans the can.

Pres Obama is currently putting together an overall strategy, where there was nada, including a view of what success is and an exit strategy.

Funny the people that missed his commitment to Afghanistan during the campaign..... hilarious, really.

Funny the people that missed his commitment to Afghanistan during the campaign..... hilarious, really.

#34 | Posted by Corky

I don't think the 55 that died in Afganistan this month see the humor of it the way you do.

Pres Obama is currently putting together an overall strategy

LOL He's had almost a year to do so. (50 weeks)Wonder how many more it will take to "put together" this strategy?

Yes, those people would have been saved from dying had he decided 2 weeks ago..... feel stooopid yet?

Did Obama just throw those 20,000 troops in to harms way all willy nilly? Or was his plan a faulty one?

Maybe less time time on the golf courses, dance floors, and apology tours and more time meeting with McCrystal and the other boots on the ground would help him?

the US had to pressure them to do anything even when they were within 60 miles of their capital city.

Nobody got within "60 miles of Islamabad". LOL. All drama. Swat is an isolated valley, cut off from most of the country. You can't just waltz down to Islamabad to pick up groceries whenever you feel like.

I have said so before that whenever anyone gets to be a nuisance, we will deal with them.

They became a nuisance, so they are dead.

Now Waziristan suddenly became a nuisance so now it's their turn.

America has nothing to do with anything... hell they can't even get their two-bit Afghan allies to do what they want, how can they "pressure" Pakistan?

I love all the nuance that goes into a lefty's analysis of war now that Obama is president. Before January 20th, you could have summed up their position in two words: "War bad." Now all of a sudden there's a lot more to consider, to the point where making no decision at all becomes a good thing.

Funny how that works.

"Funny how that works."

Yeah, funny how you pretend that many or most of us haven't always supported the war in Afghanistan and were frustrated by the way it was conducted by Bush after he redirected troops and resources to Iraq.
Funny how that memory seems to disappear now that it is inconvenient to admit.

"Did Obama just throw those 20,000 troops in to harms way all willy nilly?"

Yeah, he commanded them all the way down to the platoon level.

Yeah, he commanded them all the way down to the platoon level.

#42 | Posted by danni at 2009-10-27 01:48 PM | Reply |

As you know, I didn't even allude to such a silly notion.

As I know, you can't answer the question without looking like a complete retard.

Obama committed 20,000 additional soldiers to this fight. Did he just throw troops in to a quagmire, or was his rationale for sending them a faulty one.

It's a very simple question, and one you're afraid to answer.

He's had almost a year to do so. (50 weeks)Wonder how many more it will take to "put together" this strategy?

Considering it took GW Bush 10 years to plot his fathers revenge, (as a a result of GH Bush's fuckup), Obama is moving way too fast. It takes years of lies to convince the American public that genocide is a proper and moral thing to do. The Bush/Cheney shock and awe attack on Iraq was outright genocide, after all, the only bad guys was Saddam and his sons. How many times did Bush bomb civilian targets like market places or palaces in an attempt to kill Saddam? I lost count. The looser has blood all over himself.

If I was Obama, I wouldn't want the tour in hell Bush is facing. Even the Catholic Church and their confessional can't get him out of that fate.

"It's a very simple question, and one you're afraid to answer."

Afraid to answer??? Unable to answer perhaps, how would I possibly know the answer to that??? Considering two years ago we had only 20,000 troops who could really predict what outcome would result from an increase in troops?? There is a good chance that increasing troop levels will make Afghanis feel that we are going to be occupying their country for a very long time and they will not like that idea. So by increasing troop levels we could alienate the very people we are trying to win over to our side.

Funny the people that missed his commitment to Afghanistan during the campaign..... hilarious, really.

#34 | Posted by Corky at 2009-10-27 12:59 PM

Considering two years ago we had only 20,000 troops who could really predict what outcome would result from an increase in troops??

#45 | Posted by danni at 2009-10-27 02:41 PM | Reply

Certainly not Obama, but he sent them anyway, which makes his excuse making for the delay in sending troops laughable.

Are you really unaware of this, or are you that much of a shill?

Danni,
You see the dilemma? You sycophants want to tell us he's deliberate, and won't make a hasty decision because lives are on the line, yet he threw 20,000 troops in to the grinder months ago.

He's waiting to see which way the political winds are blowing. His indecision, and lack of leadership is apparent in this instance.

He seemed to think he knew all about what needed to be done in Afghanistan prior to the election. Was he lying?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Obama suggest during the campaign that Afghanistan could be better fought using special forces and missile strikes in lieu of a lengthy occupation? I honestly am not sure, but I seem to remember something like that.

obama's commie marxist WAR.

It amazes me that the country has sustained without a MAN in the White House. It goes to show that the U.S. will always go forward without a leader. obama just goes on proving what an incompetent dunce he truly is.

By the way, where is cindy shithead? why has'nt she set up camp on the White House lawn, where are the facade headstones?
You liberal marxist commies just go on proving how worthless and pathetic your ideology is.

"Grim Milestone: October Deadliest Month in Afghanistan Fatalities Triple Under Obama"

"The average monthly US deaths in Afghanistan have nearly quadrupled since Barack Obama took over in January."

"He's waiting to see which way the political winds are blowing."

Which way the political wind is blowing is a serious consideration when you are thinking of making a long term committment of troops. If he figures that the population will demand a pull out within several years then he would be doing a dis-service to the troops to send in more now. What's the point of sending them in if the determination isn't there to see the war through to a victory???
Also, when he sent in those 20,000 and the level of violence increased, the Taliban became stronger then it has to occur to him that adding troops is not necessarily a pathway to victory because it makes the Afghan people think we are going to stay in their country as an occupier and that will never sell to the Afghan people. If the additional troops could be shown to have done some good, it seems to me, then it might give more reason to send in the additional 40,000.

Isn't the strategy clear? Obama can't just pull the troops out, which is what he promised and really wants to do. But at the same time he can't anger his base (those rabid moveon.org morons intent on outright Stalinism). So it's easy. No new troops, and the old ones will get killed off eventually. Sooner or later, no more troops. He didn't pull out, but at the same time the troops are gone. Win Win, Democrat style.

"He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight. He will win who knows how to handle both superior and inferior forces.

So that's why Bush lost. Thanks nanc. too bad you didn't tell the Flightsuit-in-Chief this stuff when he was getting his ass handed to him by some guys on donkeys and a few deadenders...

I think the simple fact that righties were happy with the way Bush mishandled afghanistan for 7 years but expect Obam to fix it in 7 minutes says all you need to know about Republicans and fighting wars. Of course, their inability to win wars has been clear since Lincoln.

"So it's easy. No new troops, and the old ones will get killed off eventually."

Yeah, that's the strategy alright, that's why there are 20,000 more troops in AFghanistan right now than there were when he took office. Good thinking there Brainiac.

Wow, Danni, you are so poor at recognizing satire and rhetoric. Great job at doing nothing but attacking another poster, though. Perhaps you have an actual opinion you'd like to articulate, or maybe just some more liberal gibberish and personal attacks. Typical lib, though, don't expect much more.

Obama has to get off the dime. McChrystal submitted his plan back in August and here it is the last week of October.

Either, he is playing a political game or is paralyzed by indecision.

One is disgraceful, the latter an indication he is not qualified to be the commander in chief.

My guess is paralyzed by indecision. He has about as much managing experience as a newly-hired McDonalds fry cook. He's so much the politician, (read: non-manager) that he's afraid of anything that smacks of an actual decision. What if he upsets someone? He really needs to grow a pair. He has the makings of a half-assed leader, but a spine and some balls are required more than the ability to read a teleprompter.

SPOK-
It's worse than that, IMO. I think he's afraid of jeopardizing the healthcare debate by escalating in Afghanistan.

Raising troop levels will risk him losing some support for his other initiatives.

He's in over his head. Anything to not have to make a decision. As you say, "...so much the politician."

Since I left my super psionic mind reading device at the house I'm gonna have to guess as to our POTUS's intentions.

If he is holding off to provide leverage on Karzai, IMO it's the right call; I only hope the commanders in theater know this and can put themselves in a holding pattern until the Grand Strategy is revealed. Then a full court press should be used; kick ass and execute whichever strategy is adopted.

If on the other hand it's a stall tactic for political (as opposed to the afore mentioned diplomatic) reasons then the focus is off base and our boys and girls lives will be wasted. IMO this is unfortunately the more likely to be fact.

Nobody will EVER walk into A-ghan and conquer, never going to happen. You'll never understand the mindset until you've spent time with them. They are a warrior culture, and care nothing for centralized gubment beyond the tribal level (unless there are big $$$'s involved). I'm not saying they don't want it, I'm saying most have no concept of it. Get outside of Kabul and most Afghanis don't know or care what goes on in the next valley, because if they aren't doing a bridal swap they will never engage with them in anything but conflict.

Obama has time to party, to golf, to travel, but doesn't have time to make a firm life and death decision for our troops. What an empty suit this boy-child "playing-at-president" is.

Where were you during the Bush years, kiddo?

#62 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2009-10-28 05:47 AM | Reply | Flag (X)First Bush deflection of the morning, and it's not even 6:00am LOL

Obama has time to party, to golf, to travel, but doesn't have time to make a firm life and death decision for our troops. What an empty suit this boy-child "playing-at-president" is.

Gotta luff it when the resident rtards bring their talking points du jour to the ole Tort.

Kinda like having a dumb but luffable dawg bringing ya a pair of slobbered on slippers or a dead squirrel and then looking at you like they just did sommat marvelous.

Funneh is that.

Dumbya made decisions for the troops and he did so very quickly indeed.

Problem was they were the wrong decision for the most part.

Now Obama is trying shut down the twin shitstorm that Bi-Curious George wrought and yer biatching that he's not going fast enuff to suit you?

Lawls!

Be Well.

#63 | Posted by cookfish | Flag: Thinks Pointing Out Rampant Hypocrisy Constitutes "Bush Deflection" - Needs Post-Recess Remedial Reading/Comprehension Course

I seem to recall a GOPiggy talking point between 2001-2009: The Presidency is a 24/7 job, makes no difference where he happens to be.

The good news: Those lobotomies you clowns volunteered for? They worked.

The bad news: Those lobotomies you clowns volunteered for? They worked.

"Perhaps you have an actual opinion you'd like to articulate, or maybe just some more liberal gibberish and personal attacks."

Maybe if you bothered to read some of the posts on the thread you might learn something. Believe it or not some discussions don't begin the moment you enter them.

Sure is too bad that all these war experts here on DR cannot direct our troops in Afghanistan, eh?

Or even if they just joined up, then some of the vets who were stoplossed by lilaWol/hallichainy and on their 3rd or 4th tours in a deadly war zone could return to their loved ones, safe and sound.

But, alas.....the best and brightest stay here on DR, eh?

LMFAO

mato

McChrystal is not the CIC. He is ONE general.

AND he has shown himself to be less than worthy by spewing his guts to the media (and thereby to our enemies)

If you had ever been in the military, you might remember a little thing called "chain of command". The press are not in it.

I'm thinking that since Obama is pissing off the extreme right and extreme left, not knee jerk reacting to any side, listening intently to ALL his advisors and waiting til the political consternation over there gets solved somewhat, he is doing the RIGHT thing.....not the politically expedient thing for himself.

Does anyone think that sending MORE troops beyond the 34K he's already sent since April will result in LESS US troops being kia/wia?

How so? There are already 100k coalition/us/nato troops there and 200k Afghani troops.

Try thinking over regurgitating talking points from a cabal of non serving talking heads.

McChrystal may only be "ONE general," but he was the ONE general hand picked by Obama to run the Afgan side of the war, and is now being ignored. In other words, Obama got an answer he didn't like, and is now making a constant stream of excuses to not follow his adviser's suggestions. I guess most here have forgotten the blithering talking heads screaming at Bush for not listening to his generals. Libs have such short memories...or at least very selective memories.

Is he being ignored spokanejim?

How do YOU know?

How many generals have "retired" due to this cic ignoring their suggestions?

More than 20 retired generals speak out against Iraq war.
"In op-ed pieces, interviews and TV ads, more than 20 retired U.S. generals have broken ranks with the culture of salute and keep it in the family. Instead, they are criticizing the commander in chief and other top civilian leaders who led the nation into what the generals believe is a misbegotten and tragic war." Most "were political conservatives who had voted for George W. Bush," but "they felt betrayed by Bush and his advisers."

thinkprogress.org

Do you think obama hasn't sent any additional troops to Afghanistan since taking office?

Do you think that since he's taking flak from right and left, and yet waiting to see what occurs with their presidential runoff that just maybe he's knows what's best?

Or is McChrystal the cic?

And what do you think of McChrystal informing the press before Obama about his recommendations? Think our enemies were listening?

Get a clue son. You and all your right wing or left wing talking heads don't have all the info or the mandate to make these decisions.

Typical, WOKE, jump on your little Obama bandwagon (smaller every day) and try to belittle others. Typical Liberal method of argument. No need to call me son, I've been around the block a time or two myself. McCrystal submitted his report long before he talked to the press. His responsibility is to the country and his troops, not just Obama, the current fool-in-chief. I do disagree with the press releases, however, and do subscribe to the chain of command. However, McCrystal was Obama's personal pick. Now, weeks after his personal pick gave him the information he asked for, even if it wasn't what he wanted to hear, Obama has done little but talk his "advisers" to death. Shouldn't be surprising, though, Obama has no leadership experience. We're more troops sent? Yes, but where and for what? If Obama hasn't even figured out what he wants to do, why is he doing anything? The argument isn't whether more or less troops should our shouldn't be sent, the argument is the fact that Obama, after years in the Senate and months as President can't even figure out what the goal in Afghanistan is. That is embarrassing and disgraceful. Obama is showing himself as a pitiful president, and an entirely incompetent leader.

Obama is the president of these United States son.

Question is, WHY are you badmouthing him?

As I have been saying:
1. Obama didn't invade/occupy these countries, he inherited it.
2. I support him taking the time to decide what's right, rather than blindly sending more (he's already sent 34K since April).
3. Second guessing Obama's every move before he does them and denigrating him is not the same as pointing out the FAILURES of the last admin AFTER they occurred.
4. Recall how 90% of our country rallied behind bush/cheney after 911, even tho they allowed it to occur on their watch. Not until they invaded/occupied a country that didn't attack the USA and turned their back on Afghanistan (using 10k US troops there), did lefty/libs begin complaining of their incompetence and failures.

Too bad you cannot see the difference is your own pathetic poltical partisanship in calling for obama to FAIL.

Try to begin to think for yourself instead of regurgitating what you've heard from your right wing masters who've indoctrinated you into believing everything they say. NONE of them ever served anyone but themselves and the almighty DOLLAR.

Oh, I'm sorry WOKE, I'm totally wrong. It's all Bush's fault that Obama can't pull his head out of his ass long enough to make a decision. It's Bush's fault, Bush's fault, and Bush's fault. I'm badmouthing Obama because he is, exactly as many on the right said before the election - a no-nothing marxist with no experience beyond teaching ACORN how to cheat in a semi-legal manner. Being President didn't seem to keep people from bad-mouthing Bush, you cannot use that excuse now for Obama. If this little spineless wimp can't take a little questioning from Fox News and business associations he needs to resign and run home to mommy.

I've never called for Obama to FAIL. I only want to see the US succeed. Unfortunately it's not under Obama. I have no political partisanship, I vote and argue to the views I feel strongly for. With degrees in History, Justice, and Law, I do occasionally understand the issues. I have no great love for Bush, I would not have invaded Iraq. But that's not the issue. The issue is that we have a President that IS failing. Nothing he has done has helped, only hurt. Americans continue to die and he can't even come up with a goal, much less a plan to achieve that goal. Pitiful, and I say again, disgraceful.

Just remember, everyone, every time Obama can't manage to do something:

IT'S BUSH'S FAULT!! IT'S BUSH'S FAULT!! IT'S BUSH'S FAULT!! IT'S BUSH'S FAULT!! IT'S BUSH'S FAULT!! IT'S BUSH'S FAULT!! IT'S BUSH'S FAULT!! IT'S BUSH'S FAULT!! IT'S BUSH'S FAULT!! IT'S BUSH'S FAULT!! IT'S BUSH'S FAULT!! IT'S BUSH'S FAULT!! IT'S BUSH'S FAULT!! IT'S BUSH'S FAULT!! IT'S BUSH'S FAULT!!

I've never called for Obama to FAIL. I only want to see the US succeed. Unfortunately it's not under Obama. I have no political partisanship,...

#74 | POSTED BY SPOKANEJIM AT 2009-10-28 12:26 PM |

LMFAO@ YOU buddy.....

Again, the argument that people "badmouthed" bush is a strawman because it was done AFTER the failure occurred, not before.

90% of Americans, including dems/leftys/libs rallied behind bush/cheney even after they screwed the pooch and allowed 911 to occur......

YOU and your buddies are not backing our potus even BEFORE any worse things occur, it's obvious you wouldn't back him if we were attacked as we were on 911.

That makes you a partisan pos who places an already failed political ideology before our country, our citizens and our troops.

Try thinking for yourself for a change, you are just parroting right wing bullshit.

I love the constant harping from both the left and right that other posters are simply parroting the dissenter's ideological views. I've noticed that most on here in reality have their own views. WOKE is intent on trying to belittle my posts merely by accusing me of repeating right-wing talking points. Not much of an argument against my comments. Pretty poor, actually.

One minor note: "screwed the pooch and allowed 911 to occur" - the 9/11 conspiracy was planned, paid for, and organized before Bush came into office. Most were already in the country. Clinton allowed Bin Ladin to walk away. More than once. Remember, the originally planned date was March 11, not September 11. So who was it that screwed the pooch? Such comments do seem to be a mere parrot of the Moveon.org folks. Think for yourself, right, WOKE?

Wow!! Almost missed a very important point you made, WOKE. The Bush bad-mouthing (at least you admit it) was done "after the failure." Great point!! You are absolutely right!! Let's wait for the complete failure of the Obama administration before any complaining is done. That's a great idea!! Wow, what utter obtuseness.

One minor note: "screwed the pooch and allowed 911 to occur" - the 9/11 conspiracy was planned, paid for, and organized before Bush came into office. Most were already in the country. Clinton allowed Bin Ladin to walk away. More than once. Remember, the originally planned date was March 11, not September 11. So who was it that screwed the pooch? Such comments do seem to be a mere parrot of the Moveon.org folks. Think for yourself, right, WOKE?

#77 | POSTED BY SPOKANEJIM AT 2009-10-28 12:41 PM

Tell us JIM,

Who was responsible for the first WTC attack in 93, that occured barely a month into Clinton's term?

Now tell us who the Contract ON American, first repug congress focused on as their enemy, spending $70 million of taxpayer dollars on 11 bogus investigations that yielded zero indictments so they impeached him for something that was nobody's business.
Think about what message that sent to OBL sonny.

Now, tell us who was responsible for the freeing of the US hostages in Iran, 20 minutes after reagan took the oath of office?

You neocon ideologues and your rw talking points depend on the ignorance of people to insure you can continue to spew your bullshit unimpeded, eh?

Not this time.

77

What is obtuse is calling for failure BEFORE it occurs son.

You cannot dispute that in any way.

You are wishing and hoping for Obama to fail so you can once again get an already well known failed political ideology back into control of our govt.

WHY?

Try some facts JIM

Here is a list of terrorist attacks on Americans.....

Now, we are seeing the exact same kind of second guessing and partisanship toward obama.....eh?

GOP=party over country

WOKE, I hardly care enough to wade through all that gibberish, but I am curious as to why you keep calling me "son?" My father died years ago, and I have children of my own. Perhaps you need to feel fatherly toward other posters, or are you trying to use it in some sort of demeaning way, as if I'm just too young to understand? I guess that anyone who disagrees with you is some sort of partisan robot not fit to have their views addressed? I pity you, with the inability to understand that others have views, too. It's too bad, you seem capable of actually articulating a point and backing up your views. But then in the end you really only accuse me of being partisan. It seems you protest too much.

I didn't mind Clinton, the economy went along pretty well during his administration. But he can hardly be called successful on the terrorism front. It's disingenuous to blame either Bush or Clinton on UBL, except for the fact that Clinton did have the opportunity to kill or capture. But that was long before we knew the real level of UBL's intent. This line of posting doesn't regard Bush or Clinton, however, it involves Obama's inability to act. Clinton acted (properly in Bosnia, in my view), Bush acted (properly in Afghanistan, maybe not so properly in Iraq), but Obama sits in constant political mode afraid of being reproached for doing anything. The quality of a true leader is the ability to make decisions. The situation in Afghanistan hasn't changed in months, only a worsening of the impacts of having soldiers in a war. It's time to be a man and a President and quit this constant election campaign mode. He needs to make the hard decision and free himself from the left base. If he can't bear to receive criticism, he needs to go home.

"Perhaps you need to feel fatherly toward other posters, or are you trying to use it in some sort of demeaning way, as if I'm just too young to understand?"

Bitter paternalism designed to belittle and/or disregard any point you may hope to make.

30 years as a special ed teacher might condition a person to treat others that way.

#83 | POSTED BY SPOKANEJIM AT 2009-10-28 03:02 PM

We seem to agree on much, but not all. Especially your discription of who I am....similar to your denunciation of my description of you as a partisan.

Regarding your point that Obama is not "acting" quick enough to suit you....that is ridiculous imho. Pretending more of our troops will die because he isn't sending more is bullshit!

Should he knee jerk send more troops or bring them all home?

What say you? Someone else thinks differently. He is recieving info from many sources AND waiting for some direction to occur in Afghanistan's election. That makes sense to me. Merely acting because some people are screaming for it makes no sense and then he would be considering politics instead of doing what's right imo.

Furthermore, he has already sent 34k US troops and garnered more from other countries. Currently, there are 100k coalition troops and 200k Afghani troops, which translates to a 12 to 1 advantage.
But it really doesn't matter, because guerilla insurgencies don't depend on troops numbers. More opposing troops equal more targets. Can you get your head around that?

Yeah, I know a thing or two about a thing or two. Direct experience.

Discretion is the better part of valor.
Falstaff
(William Shakespeare)

or as Bullwinkle so eloquently put it...

Go, go, go, but watch where you're going...

get it?

"except for the fact that Clinton did have the opportunity to kill or capture. But that was long before we knew the real level of UBL's intent."

Self-retorting.

As far as all the talk about hurt feelings and condescension:

"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell."
Harry S Truman

Hag

What do you do for a living? I'd like to demean you in some way because of it.

KMAMF

Wonder how this revelation will affect the Afghanistan presidential election runoff?

Yeah, let's just rush headlong in with 40k more troops, eh?

"What do you do for a living? I'd like to demean you in some way because of it."

I don't demean your dedication to your career in any way. That was not my point. I certainly couldn't do what you've done.

Ok, but saying because I'm condescending to the idiot rw trolls on this site is because i worked with special ed students in an inappropriate manner for 30 years is pretty pathetic imho.

Those students, some of whom were deaf, blind, multihandicapped.....were much more able to progress than any of these trolls.

Comparing the two groups is pretty lame on your part.

Apology accepted on their behalf.

Stupid,
You didn't teach retards for 30 years, you were a member of the class.

Hi cherryboy,

What's it gonna be today?

You gonna ask me to "drop (trou) and give you 10" (inches)

or "come to attention" and "salute' you?

or are you gonna complain to rc about me posting too many FACTS for your little pea brain to comprehend?

cherryboy snitch

You're fascinated with dropping trou old man.

Just remember retard, lowly enlisted pogues like you do what you're told by officers like me.

Ok snitchboy.....whatever you say.....LMFAO

Shine my boots, boy.

ok snitchboy.....give them to me.....

see, you ain't shit unless you are hiding behind a computer screen, eh?

LMFAO @ you...

now, go run tell rc to suspend my account again cherry