Did I just hear a balloon pop?

Considering bloated executive compensation, unnecessary advertising, excessive administrative staffs needed to justify denying coverage and most importantly, falling revenue on investments then it is easy to figure out that "profit" is a term that doesn't tell, by any means, the whole story.
I had a little printing company that never made a "profit" though I lived pretty well off of it.

The left is not going to like this information to get out.

Maybe we need a printing company czar. Or at the very least, a Washington-based overhaul of rules and regulations to prevent little printing companies to continue to rape their customers. I see Congressional hearings in your future.

And if you believe health insurers are not making hand over fist your one naive person.

It kinda reminds me of the grocery industry.

They typically claim something like a 1% profit.

If you believe either one, would you be interested in a mountain retreat I have for sale in Orlando?

Health insurer's profits last year were only 2.2% of income. 34 industries did better. Among individual companies, HealthSpring, the best performer in the health insurance industry, had a 5.4% profit margins, which makes them less profitable than Tupperware (7.5%); Hershey (6.1%); Clorox (8.7%); Molson Coors Brewing (8.1%) or Yum Brands (parent of KFC, Pizza Hut, and Taco Bell) (8.5 %).

Gateway Pundit points out that the same Obamacrats in Congress who are whining about the Health Insurers 2.2% profit margin gave themselves a 2.8% raise last year, even as they ran up a $1.4 Trillion deficit; who's the greedy party here?

Stand by for the Associated Press to be demonized like Price-Waterhouse, Betsy McCaughey, and anyone else who dares to question Obamunist "reality."

Well what would be an appropriate profit margin that the government should set for health care be then?

If you are worried about the industry making profits hand over fist then what is an appropriate level? .5%? .25%?

Can't be ..those "greedy" health insurance companies are killing massive amounts of people to prop up their profits...surely they have to be making massive profits....

Or so goes the standard rants.....

Oh by the way....where is all the flu vacine that the government is responsible for obtaining and distributing...ah..that is right - it is late and not enough of it...so what are they doing?

RATIONING!...those that the GOVERNMENT decides are the most at risk can get it...other cannot.

AND FORCING people to take it ....so much for FREEDOM

And you think this will NOT be the same situation if they take over health care?

#4 | Posted by rightisright

I don't really believe that you missed Danni's point that profit reports can be manipulated in a variety of ways. Unlike your compatriots MysteryTool and KBM, you're smarter than that.

"AND FORCING people to take it ....so much for FREEDOM"

Freedom aint' free...LOL

#12 Chill

LOL, I love posting that whenever people bitch about paying taxes.

So anybody got an expense sheet for these companies? Or do we just trust them to not have handed out huge bonuses, purchased a lot of other companies and corporate jets to reduce their profits?

Maybe the odd bazillion dollar birthday party for their CEO and like that...

Just got to laugh at the defenders of the insurance industry, sometimes I think these nit wits think the industry will someday return the favor, I laugh at them but the funny part is, so do the insurance industry execs.

where is all the flu vacine that the government is responsible for obtaining and distributing...ah..that is right - it is late and not enough of it...so what are they doing?

RATIONING!...those that the GOVERNMENT decides are the most at risk can get it...other cannot.

AND FORCING people to take it ....so much for FREEDOM

And you think this will NOT be the same situation if they take over health care?

#10 | Posted by foshaffer

Uhm... They're not pumping out aspirin, but rather growing and packaging living cultures. That takes times and some rather sophisticated facilities. Only so much can be produced in a given amount of time. So sure, if there is only so much product available, it will be limited to the higher risk groups. Is that too rational?

Please recount, in verifiable detail, situations in which the Government is forcing people to "take it."

Or are you perhaps implying that the Government is willfully and purposefully using this pandemic as an excuse to better control and/or murder its people.

I don't really believe that you missed Danni's point that profit reports can be manipulated in a variety of ways.

#11 | Posted by Whatsleft

Are you saying dan is cooking thgeir books? Her example is quit simplistic. She paid herself a good wage and the corp had verry little profit. No outside share holders so no bitching (not trading on the big board at an increasing price) that there wasn't a nice dividend from the stock.

Go look it up on the Edgar database at the SEC.

She paid herself a good wage and the corp had verry little profit. No outside share holders so no bitching (not trading on the big board at an increasing price) that there wasn't a nice dividend from the stock.

apples and oranges. Hell, it's likely that Danni's business wasn't even a regular corp. Probably a Subchapter S.(which is a pass-through meaning there is hardly EVER going to be a profit shown)

'Stand by for the Associated Press to be demonized like Price-Waterhouse, Betsy McCaughey, and anyone else who dares to question Obamunist "reality."'

#7 | Posted by mysterytoy

RIIIGGHT...

(yawn)

If the money is SO bad they why DO THEY stick with it? I mean if the profits are SO BAD like this article claims then WHY DO the insurance companies fight so hard against health care reform legislation?

They should be GLAD to let it go since they are not making much profit from the business, right?

Ins. Co. & CEO With 2007 Total CEO Compensation

* Aetna Ronald A. Williams: $23,045,834
* Cigna H. Edward Hanway: $25,839,777
* Coventry Dale B. Wolf : $14,869,823
* Health Net Jay M. Gellert: $3,686,230
* Humana Michael McCallister: $10,312,557
* U.Health Grp Stephen J. Hemsley: $13,164,529
* WellPoint Angela Braly (2007): $9,094,271
L. Glasscock (2006): $23,886,169

Ins. Co. & CEO With 2008 Total CEO Compensation

* Aetna, Ronald A. Williams: $24,300,112
* Cigna, H. Edward Hanway: $12,236,740
* Coventry, Dale Wolf: $9,047,469
* Health Net, Jay Gellert: $4,425,355
* Humana, Michael McCallister: $4,764,309
* U. Health Group, Stephen J. Hemsley: $3,241,042
* Wellpoint, Angela Braly: $9,844,212

Source:

I don't really feel like doing research for everyone else, so I looked up 1 company... CIGNA.

If the profits are so weak and the price for insurance is so high, must be because the business model doesn't work. Or could it be the "low margin" argument is full of crap because the bottom line can be manipulated to say pretty much anything, while executive salaries go sky high?

How much do the CEO's make at Tupperware, Hershey, Clorox, Molson Coors Brewing, or Yum Brands?

pan, your statement makes little sense.

You should go out and find out what medical care realy costs. How bout a PET scan for just over $7k. That procedure will take less than 2 hours of your time. Go and spend a night in a hospital. Ain't cheep.

I do agree that the health insurance business needs some changes but don't throw them out in favor of your beloved government doing a better job. They have not done a good job at anything at all!!!! They can't even give out free money without fucking that up too.

I had to go to the DMV last week to transfer my car title. What a cluster fuck that was. Then they screwed up my title and I had to go back for another 2 hours of their bull shit.

"Well what would be an appropriate profit margin that the government should set for health care be then?

#8 | Posted by andyuhenet"

Heck, what about 0%? All salaries get paid, all costs are paid, all debt serviced, etc., and then anything left over goes to reducing the nat'l debt.

"Ins. Co. & CEO With 2007 Total CEO Compensation
* Aetna Ronald A. Williams: $23,045,834

Ins. Co. & CEO With 2008 Total CEO Compensation
* Aetna, Ronald A. Williams: $24,300,112"

You know what's so strange about this info, is RightIsRight checked it out and poor Mr. Williams only made $2.3M in 2009. Of course, it is only October, and he was using Vernon's Calculator....

Heck, what about 0%? All salaries get paid, all costs are paid, all debt serviced, etc., and then anything left over goes to reducing the nat'l debt.

What if they are stock companies? I guess I should sell my stock as I won't be receiving a dividend then, huh?

You idiots. Of course this happens in a recession. Those with the highest insurance premiums are the first to go. Why you don't you quit making snide remarks about Obama and compare this year to a normal year: 2006.

"I guess I should sell my stock as I won't be receiving a dividend then, huh?

#28 | Posted by eberly"

Yeah - who cares about stupid capital gains anyway, right?

and he was using Vernon's Calculator....

along side of the idiots who were claiming that execs were making "hundreds of millions of dollars a year".

Yeah - who cares about stupid capital gains anyway, right?

we know you don't. After all, how much tax can get generated when you make $.45 in returns for the year?

All public companies are subject to external auditors. So the ability to "cook" the books is hard unless your autitor was Anderson!

Hell, SMB private companies cook the books more that large public. There are diffrent accountability standards for private vs public. There is no comparision between the small priting busienss and a public corp.

I find it hard to swallow the constant attack on industry for making a profit. If there were no indusrty, we be like the people of east Germany before the wall came down. You want that life?

AP: Health Insurer Profits Weak

So not only are they screwing the American public, they're screwing their investors as well? Must be all the money they're spending on lobbyists, the GOP and the teabagger clowns. Talk about having no reason to exist.

"we know you don't. After all, how much tax can get generated when you make $.45 in returns for the year?
#32 | Posted by eberly"

Unbunch those panties, Eb. I was only making the point that dividends do not tell the whole story. And they don't.

I was only making the point that dividends do not tell the whole story.

and not paying dividends is not an option. which was my point.

If health insurance companies aren't making very much money off of health insurance, they shouldn't mind the government taking over the job.

Health insurance companies are parasites on the health care of patients--they do absolutely nothing to promote health care. They suck money out of people for nothing in return.

I've got an idea, why don't we take the millions and millions in ad money spent by moveon.org, SEIU, ACORN, Organizing for America and other corrupt lobbing organizations over the last 2 years. It's got to be approaching $1B.

If the left really wanted to help us out, they could fund health care for the uninsured vs. funding the bureaucracies with this money. I guess its ok for these organizations to advertise with false statements as long as its for the "good" as defined by the in-power, but business cannot advertise and compete with each other for my business because it's EVIL. But I guess most of the left is nothing more then a leech anyway.

I had to go to the DMV last week to transfer my car title. What a cluster fuck that was.

Huh, I did that myself a little while ago and had no problems whatsoever, maybe you have trouble filling out forms? Did you read the instructions?

Who here would trade the wait at the local DMV for the wait at their local hospital emergency room?

I had to go to the DMV last week to transfer my car title. What a cluster fuck that was. Then they screwed up my title and I had to go back for another 2 hours of their bull shit.

#25 | Posted by Sniper

Most of these people that complain about service at the DMV, post office, etc., are just stupid fucks that can't follow simple instructions and fill out simple forms. I've never had any problems.

Null,

This IS snippy you are talking about here. Duh!!!

"I've got an idea, why don't we take the millions and millions in ad money spent by moveon.org, SEIU, ACORN, Organizing for America and other corrupt lobbing organizations over the last 2 years. It's got to be approaching $1B.

But I guess most of the left is nothing more then a leech anyway."

#38 | Posted by chitown

Whatever troll, your poor english skills don't really matter because...

REID just announced WE GOT OUR PUBLIC OPTION!!!

They DID make an exception for people like you - there is a state opt out so people in a state of confusion dont have to worry!

Huh, I did that myself a little while ago and had no problems whatsoever, maybe you have trouble filling out forms? Did you read the instructions?

#39 | Posted by dibblda

Hu? I had an inspection done on my car, gave them my old title and they handed me a new one. I filled out nothing except my new address. A half a day shot between the 2 visits.

Don't feel bad, Sniper. Once upon a time it took me six visits to get a car titled. When all was said and done I walked away with new license plates... which didn't match the license plates listed on the registration.

I guess they must've known I wasn't coming back because a couple weeks later I got a new registration card in the mail which matched the plates.

"I had to go to the DMV last week to transfer my car title. What a cluster fuck that was.
#25 | Posted by Sniper"

Given your posting history here, I can't say that surprises me. Fuck, you probably have trouble tying your shoes or figuring out whether that bottle in the cupboard is your Geritol or your sister-wife's Midol.

To be fair, the people at the DMV (and post office!) are some of the most miserable human beings I have ever met, and take pleasure in messing up and trying to make people mad.

Heck, what about 0%? All salaries get paid, all costs are paid, all debt serviced, etc., and then anything left over goes to reducing the nat'l debt.

Well if it were a private business a 0% profit margin is not something that should be pursued. I think a single payer option would save so much money for everyone that we should just eliminate the insurance companies, but this isn't going to happen. If the public option is the plan for the future, I think it would be unreasonable to expect a private company to aim for a 0% profit margin.

"But as NPR's All Things Considered points out the group's "fact check" is itself misleading, since insurers are measuring their profits against total health care spending, not company revenues. "All that statement says is, if you eliminated all our [insurance company] profits, national health spending in America would be 1 percent lower. It has meaning only in that context," health care economist Uwe Reinhardt explains. Within the context of companies' revenues, insurers skim off 15-20 percent of premium dollars for administrative costs and profits. In fact, an examination of insurers' medical loss ratio the fraction of revenue from a plan's premiums that goes to pay for medical services suggests that within the last 10 years, insurers have been spending less on medical care and more on administrative costs or profits:

Moreover, a report by Families USA found that "insurers in the individual market sometimes maintain medical loss ratios of only 60%, retaining 40% of premium dollars for administration, marketing and profit." "For the 10 biggest insurers in the year 2006 (the year the insurers used for the 1 cent out of every dollar depiction above), profits were anywhere from 2 to 10 percent, or two to 10 pennies on the dollar. That's two to 10 times as much as what the insurance industry group suggests in its illustrations."

The top five earning insurance companies averaged profits of $1.56 billion in 2008 and reported spending an average of "more than 18 percent of their revenues on marketing, administration, and profits." That year, CEO compensation for these companies ranged from $3 million to $24 million." Below is a partial list of insurer/CEO profits

Let's just give the insurance companies a government mandate and be done with it.

Very sad.

So Corky lets make it mandatory that Insurance Companies get millions more in paying customers, that'll drive profits down.

It will allow legitimate companies who abide by the new rules to particpate in the Exchange.

And make more money!

Most of these people that complain about service at the DMV, post office, etc., are just stupid... that can't follow simple instructions and fill out simple forms. I've never had any problems.

#41 | Posted by nullifidian at 2009-10-26 03:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

Think about it Nulli - is the average American more like you or like Sniper when it comes to filling out bureaucratic government forms? However, since a trip to the hospital ALREADY requires you to fill out numerous forms, it's a moot point. The public option (or anything else the government passes short of single payer) will in all probability not increase the number of forms that one would have to fill out. Even with the public option, I'm sure the hospital will be filling out most of the forms, just like they do now. The "public option will create too much paperwork" argument doesn't hold water in that there is already an abundance of paperwork created by the current system.

Most of these people that complain about service at the DMV, post office, etc., are just stupid... that can't follow simple instructions and fill out simple forms. I've never had any problems.

That's because you're roughly as stupid as the drones who work for such agencies.

People like you complete the circle.

The most inept, inefficient, and incompetent sectors of society are the public sectors.

Those who can't---go public.

So please excuse the aversion of people like myself towards the idea of promulgating and funding institutions that employ people like you.

#55 | Posted by Jak_Se_Mao

In other words, you're another one of those morons that can't get some basic function accomplished at the DMV, US post office, etc., without a lot of hand-holding, eh, Jacque? Kinda like Sniper. Is he also a Texan?

In other words, you're another one of those morons that can't get some basic function accomplished

Oh, I can get it accomplished.

I just have to deal with a public-sector level of incompetence so legendary, its become a fixture of American popular culture.

...which makes it all the more funnier to point and laugh at stupid-ass ideologues who take it upon themselves to defend such agencies

I just have to deal with a public-sector level of incompetence so legendary, its become a fixture of American popular culture.

#57 | Posted by Jak_Se_Mao

Well, I would be pissed off as well if those offices were staffed with the average Texan tard.

Well, I would be pissed off as well if those offices were staffed with the average Texan tard.

No shit. But think how fucked up they'd be if they were paid in IOUs.

...the average Texan tard.

My experience has been that the average Texan (re)tard is a full order of magnitude smarter than the average californian stoner.

If Texans are having so many problems with their DMVs, why don't they start hiring out of state?

If Texans are having so many problems with their DMVs, why don't they start hiring out of state?

No, dull, we are not going to help California out of their #3 position position in joblessness. Deal with your own problems.