Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Tuesday, October 13, 2009

Paul A. Offit: Public health officials are now battling not only a fast-spreading influenza virus but also unfounded fears about the vaccine that can prevent it. Distributing this vaccine to those who need it most -- pregnant women, health care workers, children older than six months and people with compromised immunity -- will be difficult enough. But the task is made harder by the various myths, spread on TV talk shows and web sites, suggesting that Americans have more to fear from the vaccine than from the deadly disease it prevents.

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Deadly disease? It's the fucking flu, vaccine pimp.

A quick google shows he has ties to Merck, one of the companies that distributes the swine flu vaccine. Big surprise.

Yes, line your kids and pregnant women up...we got some testing to do.

www.fda.gov

Safety and effectiveness of FluMist have not been studied in pregnant
women or nursing mothers. (8.1, 8.3)

www.fda.gov

Safety and effectiveness of Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine have not
been established in pregnant women, nursing mothers or children less than 4 years of
age. (8.1, 8.3, 8.4)

Some "quack website"? No, from the fucking drug inserts themselves...

And young children will "need" two doses of the vaccine!

www.reuters.com

It may be perfectly safe. It might cause a problem like the nervous condition that I can't spell (sounded french)...

The problem is, who knows? In ages past, the gov't said take it, people did, and if some died or had their life fucked up, so what?

Now, people are beginning to question the gov't. Is this the best place to be skeptical? Probably not, but its a damn good start.

"Deadly disease? It's the fucking flu, vaccine pimp."

People die from the flu all the time, moron.

Regular influenza kills more people every year than H1N1 has. The hype around H1N1 is nothing more than a smoke and mirrors campaign. You sheep go right ahead and get your shots and naisal sprays.

Where's my remote?

Flu? What's that? lol

The 'hype' is just clever marketing.

It's funny watching all the stupid people worried about the flu and listening to all the corporate and neorighties pejorical rhetoric in the media about the flu.

Nothing factual is ever reported.

Regular influenza kills more people every year than H1N1 has. The hype around H1N1 is nothing more than a smoke and mirrors campaign. You sheep go right ahead and get your shots and naisal sprays.

I love how idiots spout this and think they sound intelligent.

We haven't had the usually flu season dumb fuck. Of course seasonal flu has killed more people in years past. You're also comparing it to YEARS PAST. As in COMPLETE. Wait until this year's flu season is over before making this asinine claim again.

Where's my remote?

Figures.

People die from the flu all the time, moron.

You mean the deadly disease, flu? Go get a few extra doses Nulfy, there will be plenty to go around.

"You mean the deadly disease, flu? "

It kills people every year you blithering idiot! Do you not know the definition of the word "deadly"?

A quick google shows he has ties to Merck, one of the companies that distributes the swine flu vaccine. Big surprise.

Because he sold them the rights to the Rotateq vaccine, no? I don't think he has a financial stake in the company though.

Also, he's part of the vaccine advisory board for the CDC and is considered one of the foremost experts on vaccines.

But sure, I don't think he's someone to listen to.

It's a garden variety flu season and the scaremongers are scared the public isn't buying their bullshit. I've been noticing a growing public backlash against vaccines in the past few years. Unless the vaccine makers find an alternate explanation for autism, critics say the epidemiological evidence points to them.

"I don't think he has a financial stake in the company though."


Dr. Offit lists that he is a consultant to Merck on an attachment to his OGE 450, but does not disclose whether or not he received any renumeration for his services.

Dr. Offit is a member of the CDC advisory committee and disclosed that he received $350,000 grant money from Merck to develop the rotavirus vaccine, in which he shares the patent, which was pulled 6 months after is was licensed because of severe problems.He gets paid to go around the country teaching doctors that vaccines are safe. (Wall Street Journal).
www.americanchronicle.com

Hey JPW, care to comment on his flat out lies that the vaccines have been tested on pregnant women and small children when the vaccine's own inserts clearly state that they have not been tested on those groups?

THE VACCINE IS UNTESTED The H1N1 vaccine has already been given to thousands of volunteers to determine whether it could protect them from the virus and to make sure that it caused no adverse reactions. Only then did the Food and Drug Administration license it.

SORRY VACCINE PIMP, YOU LIE!

We haven't had the usually flu season dumb fuck. Of course seasonal flu has killed more people in years past. You're also comparing it to YEARS PAST. As in COMPLETE. Wait until this year's flu season is over before making this asinine claim again.
#11 | Posted by jpw

The southern hemisphere passed through winter with a normal flu season.

You're insulting arrogant tactics are getting you nowhere.

I don't think he has a financial stake in the company though.

are you his broker?

"Where's my remote?

#7 | Posted by OUR_ZERO"

Our zero brings up a good point. Lazy shut-in couch potatoes who get their Domino's pizza delivered and watch tv all day probably don't need the vaccine. Or soap, for that matter.

"The southern hemisphere passed through winter with a normal flu season."

#18 | Posted by Ray

NO THEY DID NOT.

The PREDOMINATE Flu cases in the Southern Hemisphere for the most recent flu season were H1N1. I have heard of NO ONE (excepting you) that described it as a NORMAL FLU season.

Just because H1N1 did not go EPIDEMIC is not an indication that it was a NORMAL FLU season.

On June 11, 2009, the WHO declared an H1N1 pandemic, moving the alert level to phase 6, marking the first global pandemic since the 1968 Hong Kong flu.

A flu pandemic can HARDLY be accurately described as NORMAL FLU SEASON.

This is a repeat of the same kind of BUNK stories about SWINE FLU that happened in the 1970's.

The more things change, the more they stay the same!

Okay, let's take a non-scientific survey;

How many people here have had the swine flu?

How many know someone personally who has had it?

Have you known about herds of people that have it or have had it?

I don't know one single person that has it or has had it.

are you his broker?

I guess you don't have to be.

Dr. Offit lists that he is a consultant to Merck on an attachment to his OGE 450, but does not disclose whether or not he received any renumeration for his services.

Dr. Offit is a member of the CDC advisory committee and disclosed that he received $350,000 grant money from Merck to develop the rotavirus vaccine, in which he shares the patent, which was pulled 6 months after is was licensed because of severe problems.He gets paid to go around the country teaching doctors that vaccines are safe. (Wall Street Journal).

Thanks for the info Joe.

Unless the vaccine makers find an alternate explanation for autism, critics say the epidemiological evidence points to them.

It doesn't mean jack shit what the critics SAY.

I say you're a blathering idiot. Granted I have more evidence to support my assertion that vaccine-autism folks, but what does that matter?

The epidemiological evidence does NOT support a vaccine autism link.

And it's not up to vaccine producers to find the cause of autism, it's up to the folks making the claim that vaccines=autism to provide supporting evidence, something they've yet to do.

How is it that people think it's up to everyone else to disprove their assertions, and not the other way around?

"critics say"

Jenny McCarthy?

www.jennymccarthybodycount.com

Morons.

Autism rates have climbed to 1 in 91 now. yes, i know, part of that is because of more aggressive diagnosis methods. 1 in 91, which includes some that only have mild symptoms, somehow gives the critics a sense of moral righteousness, when compared to 1 in 161 who are totally and irreparably retarded.

spin the wheel, maybe you'll be a lucky one.

In fact, as you learned here, they have suspended the limits on thimiserol for this swine flu vaccine. Makes good business sense really. It preserves the vaccine so it can be more efficiently delivered. Plus, it will only cause a few kids to have autism. Not too bad when you compare it to the big picture. Unless it's your child, of course.

Some "quack website"? No, from the fucking drug inserts themselves...

And as those same "fucking inserts" say, those populations should only be vaccinated when necessary and cautiously.

Studies are underway with the 2009 H1N1 vaccines.
www.nih.gov

In parallel with the above study, they also tested the 2009 H1N1 vaccine in children and adults. If there's been any significant problems I haven't heard about them.

Another on going trial.

clinicaltrials.gov

Tell me Iraqi, just what exactly do you think would go wrong by injecting dead viral material into the arm of a pregnant woman? I'm just curious as to what sorts of things you think we should be watching out for.

the avg joe can't read the article (subscription), but who needs to? The propaganda is in full swing right in front of all of us on our local TV station, news sites as well as the corporate shills at all the major networks.

Fortunately the American public has been able to see through the myth that there is no payoff for them in taking an experimental vaccine pushed by the pro-pharma media outlets.

But, beyond all the hype, one only has to look at the pharma-supplied insert to the vaccine itself.

H1N1 Swine Flu Vaccine Insert Admits It Causes Guillain-Barre Syndrome, Vasculitis, Paralysis, Anaphylactic Shock And Death

Autism rates have climbed to 1 in 91 now

Link?

Of interest-both my mother and my mother-in-law are special education teachers. Both have independently stated that many autism diagnoses are made because it's easier to get the kid special education needs met. Anecdotal I know, but it might help explain why the number continues to rise.

they have suspended the limits on thimiserol for this swine flu vaccine.

And I'm sure they're just cramming barrels of the stuff into the vaccines as we speak.

Shit. First it was because all the vaccines had Thimerasol and THAT'S why kids were getting autism. Now a single vaccine administered once with Thimerasol will do it.

Epic goal post shift.

Makes good business sense really.

Or good public health sense since the doses are few and far between. Why would you want to waste any?

It preserves the vaccine so it can be more efficiently delivered.

Finally something correct. Was really beginning to worry you'd have nothing useful to say. (Although I don't quite know if this qualifies as useful)

Plus, it will only cause a few kids to have autism. Not too bad when you compare it to the big picture. Unless it's your child, of course.

No it won't you hyperbolic crybaby.

There's no good evidence to support a thimerosal-vaccine link to begin with, let alone evidence for a single dose being able to do it.

#27 jpw

But JPW, they're propagandized as totally safe! You should take it if you're pregnant, or even 9 months old. Don't worry about it. It's safe! And guess what, the pharmaceuticals are completely immune from prosecution no matter what!

You can't side-step that with your tales.

But JPW, they're propagandized as totally safe! You should take it if you're pregnant, or even 9 months old. Don't worry about it. It's safe! And guess what, the pharmaceuticals are completely immune from prosecution no matter what!

The inserts beg to differ. But don't let that stop you from being victimized by the big bad propaganda.

Nice link by the way. Appears to be a nice unbiased source, not to mention it draws heavily from Dr. Tenpenny (LOL).

There is no doubt money is more important than lives to those who stand to make money on the whole H1N1. Clinical trials are rammed through and given the FDA stamp.

The autism issue is a WHOLE other thread.

As far as PROOF that the vaccine is safe you will not have that until flu season is over!

As for being informed I would like to see someone find an answer to this question: exactly what amount of mercury is in the shot?

Is it a trace amount like in a can of Tuna? Or is it an entire case of tuna amount?

drugrecalls.com

Just because H1N1 did not go EPIDEMIC is not an indication that it was a NORMAL FLU season.
On June 11, 2009, the WHO declared an H1N1 pandemic, moving the alert level to phase 6, marking the first global pandemic since the 1968 Hong Kong flu.
A flu pandemic can HARDLY be accurately described as NORMAL FLU SEASON.
#21 | Posted by Monstman

WHO is pumping up the statistics by counting anything close to flue symptoms as H1N1. They would have to test blood in every case to get accurate statistics, and they don't. Never never trust statistics from a political organization.

#31 jpw
let me see, dr tenpenny + common sense or jpw. Not a tough choice. You discredit the person, Dr Tenpenny, on exactly what grounds? What authority are you? Why do you engage in ad hominem attack, but can't address her deep concerns?

So JPW, are you going to personally compensate the families when their child gets a debiilitating brain disease? I ask since you didn't bother to respond to the fact that nobody is responsible for the results.

JPW, why does the President say that we don't have to take it while schools and many employers tell you must take it? Shouldn't we be very suspicious of a government that has the track record of 1976 Swine Flu Debacle, then rush through an experimental vaccine in 2009, admittedly not thoroughly tested, and tell us it will be ok this time while removing all authority to sue should it not be ok and at the same time have the label on the vaccine warning us of all the diseases we are already aware of with vaccines, in addition to the warning we can be sterilized (because it contains speermicides!). Nice try with the propaganda, JPW.

I also notice you didn't bother commenting on the multiplicity of articles provided:

In Case You Were Wondering Why We Don't Want To Take Your Swine Flu Vaccines

The H1N1 FluMist Vaccine Contains LIVE Swine Flu Which Is Sprayed Up Your Nose

Recipients Of The Swine Flu Vaccine Are Being Given CDC "Vaccination Record" Tracking Cards

New Studies: Taking The Seasonal Flu Shot Increases Your Chance Of Catching The H1N1 Swine Flu

Flu Vaccine Bribe? Safeway Offering 10 Percent Off To Customers Who Take The Flu Shot

The Swine Flu Vaccine Contains 25,000 Times The Amount Of Mercury That Is Considered Safe

#36 | Posted by L_RContrarian at 2009-10-13 07:56 PM | Reply | Flag: smokin' the good shit

The epidemiological evidence does NOT support a vaccine autism link.
#24 | Posted by jpw

There are a lot of activists who are convinced otherwise. The tobacco companies used to be in denial like that. Like I side, unless the industry finds an alternative cause for autism, vaccines are suspect #1.

By the way folks, the WHO has just come out and admitted that the Level 6 Pandemic is not likely to be lowered for years.

Just more proof that they want to maximize the hype and new authority granted by the draconian Executive Orders passed years earlier (how did they know we would have such a pandemic), very fortunate timing indeed for their globalism control grid planning.

As for being informed I would like to see someone find an answer to this question: exactly what amount of mercury is in the shot?

That's easy. None. It does contain Thimerosal.

If you insist on knowing the mercury amount, here it is from the package insert.

Multidose vial, 5-mL. Contains thimerosal, a mercury derivative (25 mcg mercury per 0.5-mL dose). Thimerosal is added as preservative.

"25 mcg mercury per 0.5-mL dose"

That's 25E-6 gm per 0.5 gm, or 0.005%.

"WASHINGTON, DC, November 21, 2008 (ENS) - The top 50 most-polluting coal-burning power plants in the United States emitted 20 tons of toxic mercury into the air in 2007, finds a new report from the nonprofit Environmental Integrity Project. Of the top 10 mercury emitting power plants, all but one reported an increase as compared to 2006. "
www.ens-newswire.com

" The dozen states with plants emitting the most mercury are - in order from highest to lowest - Texas, Pennsylvania, Alabama, Georgia, Ohio, Indiana, North Dakota, Missouri, Kansas, North Carolina, Wisconsin and Arkansas.

Texas power plants hold five slots among the nation's highest 10 mercury emitters. "

www.ens-newswire.com

Know nukes, they're safer than fossils.

German Soldiers Get Additive Free Swine Flu Shot

According to a report out of Germany, German soldiers have been given an additive-free swine flu shot that doesn't contain mercury, squalene, or any of the other dangerous adjuvants associated with the vaccine, raising questions as to why this version of the shot has not been made available to the general population.

An article that when translated is entitled, German soldiers gets non poisonous vaccine, explains how 250,000 German troops have been given a "friendly" vaccine made by Baxter that does not contain "controversial mercury-containing additives or preservatives".

It appears that there are two versions of the swine flu shot, one for those in the know and another for the general population who trust the government to shoot them up with dangerous toxins that have been linked to autism and other neurological disorders.

Despite concerns about thimerosal and mercury, thimerosal is an ingredient of the swine flu vaccine which is currently being rolled out globally.

"Some of the vaccine will be stored in multi-dose vials containing thimerosal, an antibacterial additive that contains mercury," reported the Washington Post in an article about which groups will receive the swine flu vaccine first.

Indeed, the swine flu vaccine contains no less than 25,000 per cent the amount of mercury considered safe.

www.prisonplanet.com

You discredit the person, Dr Tenpenny, on exactly what grounds? What authority are you? Why do you engage in ad hominem attack, but can't address her deep concerns?

You don't have to believe me on any authority. Dr. Tenpenny is a notorious quack and her "deep concerns" have been addressed over and over and over again by people much better informed than myself.

So JPW, are you going to personally compensate the families when their child gets a debiilitating brain disease? I ask since you didn't bother to respond to the fact that nobody is responsible for the results.

Bullshit.

www.hrsa.gov

I've posted this many times. Even in response to comments from yourself on previous occasions.

JPW, why does the President say that we don't have to take it while schools and many employers tell you must take it?

That's because schools are incubators for infectious diseases and once they're introduced into a school setting, they rapidly propagate throughout the community. It's basic epidemiology.

As for "many employers," most that I've seen are people in some sort of health care field. This makes sense since they are the most likely to be exposed and you don't want an exposure to lead to spreading to uninfected patients and families. Again, common sense.

Shouldn't we be very suspicious of a government that has the track record of 1976 Swine Flu Debacle, then rush through an experimental vaccine in 2009, admittedly not thoroughly tested,

Different time with a completely different (lesser) knowledge of vaccinology and virology as a whole. Seasonal flu vaccines have been administered for years. Guess what, this vaccine is made the same way with the same ingredients with the exception of the virus itself. And what would qualify as "thoroughly tested" in your mind, oh wise one? It's undergoing trials at several sites with no adverse reactions reported to date.

and tell us it will be ok this time while removing all authority to sue should it not be ok

Already addressed above.

and at the same time have the label on the vaccine warning us of all the diseases we are already aware of with vaccines, in addition to the warning we can be sterilized (because it contains speermicides!). Nice try with the propaganda, JPW.

You can be sterilized by a vaccine? What diseases exactly can you get from the vaccine? I looked at the article, but they don't site the actual section of the insert that states you can contract all the diseases they say you can get.

I'll read it though just to humor you.

#44 | Posted by Ray at 2009-10-13 08:33 PM | Reply | Flag: idiot

Anyone who links to prisonplanet.com is a fucking nutcase.

I met Alex Jones once. I was photographing a lunar eclipse. Alex thought the moon rose in the west.

Alex thought the moon rose in the west.

I knew a bOoB-like person who thought the phase of the moon determined where it rose. He swore that throughout the lunar cycle it rose in the east, then the North, then the West, then the South, then East again.

He was as ignorant as bOoB in that he refused to acknowledge any evidence, no matter how well presented or how many credible sources were cited.

I tried to show him on my PC with the Starry Night planetarium software. He accused me of rigging it! LOL

As I said, this guy was just like da bOoB.

From vactruth.com:

But it is not just what the vaccine inserts admit to that is the problem. In a recent interview, Dr. Andrew Moulden discussed the explosion of many conditions and diseases that a large number of health experts are now blaming on vaccines.....

----

1 in 6 children with specific learning disabilities.
12-15% children with attention deficit disorder.
1 in 87 with autism spectrum a 1700% increase over ten years.
1% sudden infant death
40 deaths and 15,000 substantive adverse Gardasil reactions
1 in 15 over 65 with dementia; 1 in 8 over 85
Chronic fatigue syndrome
Fibromyalgia
Seizure disorders
"West" syndrome
Global developmental delay
1 in 450 with type 1 diabetes
1 in 2 men and 1 in 3 women will develop cancer over a lifetime.
Gulf war syndrome affecting and disabling 250,000 troops and 42,000 deaths. These vaccinated soldiers show the exact same neurological damages after vaccination as the infants and children are exhibiting after each childhood vaccination.

Anyone who links to prisonplanet.com is a fucking nutcase.
#46 | Posted by Zatoichi

Yeah. Yeah. We know all about your global warming Chicken Little hallucinations.

#40 jpw
As for being informed I would like to see someone find an answer to this question: exactly what amount of mercury is in the shot?

That's easy. None. It does contain Thimerosal.

You conveniently refer only to single-dose vials.

mercury is still in multidose flu shot vials

#47 zatoich
Do you think anybody's buying that crap? you are clearly a moron.

Ah ray the imbecile opens his hole again here. Must be tough getting speech past all the paper up your ass..

You conveniently refer only to single-dose vials.

mercury is still in multidose flu shot vials

No, I'm referring to the multi-dose vials. The insert indicates Thimerosal is added to single dose during processing but is chemically removed before packaging.

Look at the insert for yourself.

#49 | Posted by L_RContrarian

And I'll bet the lack the evidence to fulfill burden of proof just like every other claim made about supposed vaccine injuries.

Now don't read this to mean I don't think there aren't ANY adverse effects from vaccination, but there is not the evidence to support most of the claims made by anti-vaxxers.

I don't see where the vaccine will sterilize you.

LOL talking out your ass or is it in a different "article?"

#45 jpw
Bullshit.

www.hrsa.gov

I've posted this many times. Even in response to comments from yourself on previous occasions.

And you also know I've called you out on this lie before. You know that provisions in the Patriot Act have made that older compensation fund irrelevant. Why do you continue to propogate your lies? You under-estimate that there are many educated people out here.

Oh, "better people than me have proved she's a quack." Yeah Right! Nice try. Try some proof next time. And show your credentials before discrediting a true MD!

Your argument is bunk and doesn't get to the point how the President can lie and then have his minions force it on people. Why would he say this if that is the case? He has never backtracked on this promise.

The spermicides are among many ingredients that are not listed on the label. Do I really need to post that for you (as if you are truly concerned at getting to the truth)?

Truth is stranger than fiction. I'd never be able to dream this stuff up!

#54 jpw

Don't twist what I said and what you said. I never said there wasn't Thimerasol as you claim. You stated there is no mercury. I stated that you assumed single-dose vials when you said that. There is indeed mercury in multi-dose vials. You stated earlier that there was not.

And you also know I've called you out on this lie before. You know that provisions in the Patriot Act have made that older compensation fund irrelevant. Why do you continue to propogate your lies? You under-estimate that there are many educated people out here.

LOL if you're "educated I'm fucking Einstein.

www.aapsonline.org

That decision was in 2008! 2008 FUCKER!

The Patriot Act prevented people from suing the manufacturer. This board provides compensation in the place of the manufacturers.

Oh, "better people than me have proved she's a quack." Yeah Right! Nice try. Try some proof next time.

Please. Rebutting the shit she puts out (and you propagate) takes days of sifting through background literature and information. Besides, if you can cut and paste her shit as some form of "argument," why can't I point to others' rebuttals of her quackery?

scienceblogs.com

Link to a blog written by a surgical oncologist who blogs under the name Orac. He spends many many hours debunking this shit. Oh yeah, he's a real MD, not a DO like Tenpenny.

And show your credentials before discrediting a true MD!

She's not a real MD. She's a DO.

The spermicides are among many ingredients that are not listed on the label. Do I really need to post that for you (as if you are truly concerned at getting to the truth)?

Link it. That's how it works. Make a claim, link something.

I do want to see it actually. I'm rather amused by the notion of an injection in the arm sterilizing you with spermicide. LOL

You stated there is no mercury. I stated that you assumed single-dose vials when you said that. There is indeed mercury in multi-dose vials. You stated earlier that there was not.

I didn't assume anything. I linked to the actual insert to show the actual amount of thimerosal.

And yes, I said it doesn't have mercury. Mercury is not the same as thimerosal. I believe we've had this conversation too and you've shown a propensity for lacking basic chemistry knowledge.

Elemental mercury does not = methylmercury does not = ethylmercury.

Still, is Thimerosal a neurotoxin or isn't it?

#61 | Posted by Ray at 2009-10-13 09:30 PM | Reply | Flag: ate a shitload of mercury from thermometers as a child

#59 jpw
First of all you point to a blog to discredit a doctor? I could do that! Why not actual news articles like those with some credibility do?

Second, interesting article you link to in order to invalidate what the anti-vaccine movement says!
And nice try with the fund in 2008! According to the article, the little girl's case was in 2004 which pre-dated the Protecting America in the War on Terror Act of 2005.

So the truth remains. I did call you on out on this previously. At that time you had no response. But now you found this article to attempt to continue your debauchery.

no jpw, you can't escape on "chemistry". If you state it doesn't have mercury (even the multi-dose) and somebody points out your error, then you need to own up to it.

"25 mcg mercury per 0.5-mL dose"

That's 25E-6 gm per 0.5 gm, or 0.005%.

#41 | Posted by Zatoichi

Very nice thank you for the info.

I have trouble understanding the part where you say none. If the amount of mercury is none then why does it state the AMOUNT of mercury contained, which is not a value of zero?

I expect the power plant mercury emissions will continue because high mercury coal does not contain high sulfur which causes acid rain.

#61 | Posted by Ray at 2009-10-13 09:30 PM | Reply | Flag: ate a shitload of mercury from thermometers as a child

#62 | Posted by Zatoichi

Bwahahahaha.

First of all you point to a blog to discredit a doctor? I could do that! Why not actual news articles like those with some credibility do?

It's a blog written by an actual doctor, you know an MD. It has at least as much clout as the Tenpenny shit you post, probably more since he's an actual doctor (I know I know, DOs are doctors too).

And yes, I've read more, that's just the easiest to find and I read it quite often.

And nice try with the fund in 2008! According to the article, the little girl's case was in 2004 which pre-dated the Protecting America in the War on Terror Act of 2005.

Then link it again, it should be pretty easy.

The only things I could find on it are from nomercury.org.

no jpw, you can't escape on "chemistry". If you state it doesn't have mercury (even the multi-dose) and somebody points out your error, then you need to own up to it.

LOL I'm not escaping on chemistry. ethylmercury is not methylmercury is not mercury. Again, if you don't know basic chemistry, it's not my fault.

Mercury shmercury. We used to play with that stuff when I was a kid. Roll it around in Your hand and watch it move. What was fun was cutting it with something and then watch it "Melt" back together again. Good times they were.

Larry

I have trouble understanding the part where you say none. If the amount of mercury is none then why does it state the AMOUNT of mercury contained, which is not a value of zero?

That was me.

I said none because thimerosal is not the same as mercury. The weight given is for mercury content because you can calculate that value based on the % weight of mercury contained in thimerosal. However, Thimerosal is metabolized into ethylmercury, which clears the body within days of injection. There is some information to indicate ethylmercury eventually breaks down into elemental mercury in the body, but it occurs in the liver and colon and is rapidly excreted from both.

I'm being highly technical based on the fact that thimerosal is not mercury.

JPW

How do you like my following? You're at the end of the line.

Your following?

If you'd like to lay claim to contrarian be my guest.

Speaking of which, where's that spermicide link contrarian?

How do you like my following? You're at the end of the line.

#70 | POSTED BY RAY

Echoing Zat's #25: One of Ray's esteemed "followers", Jenny McCarthy (tenured, published, universally-respected investigator...along with tinfoil-hat enthusiast Contrarian

I guess I just don't understand how surviving past middle-age bestows one with an honorary Ph.D in each and every natural science. Explain?

"Liiiiike, I think vacc- ... va.... (how do you say it?) whatever, are, like, really bad. Like, they kill people. And give innocent children the autism! And stuff. You've gotta think about the children!

Oh, you're ready for my 'shoot?"

-Ray's Esteemed Colleague, Ms. McCarthy.

jpw, uh no. A blog by a supposed doctor Entitled 'Don't listen to these Voices' where there is no actual science discussed, but his claim is "In case you don't know who these "luminaries" are, Sherri Tenpenny is an infamous anti-vaccine activist whose website, book (Saying No To Vaccines), book blog, and blog are chock full of vaccine pseudoscience".

This is what I am going to put my trust in? This is the basis of 'quacking the doctor'?
Get real. It's time to go peddle your shit somewhere else!

Nice try. By the way, while you make your crusade against Tenpenny, there are dozens others just like her, so trail on, propagandist!

Why would I re-link to it? Actually the case is from 2000. So where's the relevance? Funny how you now avoid the issue.

And, I believe they were saying there is both thimerosol and mercury in the multi-dose. Even if you were correct on that one issue, it doesn't really mater. If people ask if there's mercury, they don't need a "chemistry" answer.

jpw, uh no. A blog by a supposed doctor Entitled 'Don't listen to these Voices' where there is no actual science discussed, but his claim is "In case you don't know who these "luminaries" are, Sherri Tenpenny is an infamous anti-vaccine activist whose website, book (Saying No To Vaccines), book blog, and blog are chock full of vaccine pseudoscience".

This is what I am going to put my trust in? This is the basis of 'quacking the doctor'?
Get real. It's time to go peddle your shit somewhere else!

Look around the entire blog. He discusses daily different cases of pseudoscience, particularly those related to anti-vaccine stuff.

I also find it ironic that you trump Tenpenny's shit as believable while writing off commentary from and actual doctor. Shows a lot as to you willingness to integrate contradictory information.

Nice try. By the way, while you make your crusade against Tenpenny, there are dozens others just like her, so trail on, propagandist!

LOL Propagandist.

And of those dozens you site, how many of them are DOs who are trying to peddle herbal remedies and special cooking pots and DVDs and books and blah blah blah. I'll bet you every single one of them has a massive disclaimer basically telling you using their products carries no guarantees and you should consult real doctors.

Why would I re-link to it?

Because otherwise you're a liar talking out your ass.

Actually the case is from 2000. So where's the relevance? Funny how you now avoid the issue.

She received the vaccines in 2000. The ruling was passed down in 2008.

www.hrsa.gov

And what do you know, the board is still taking petitions. Sort of weird for an entity that doesn't exist anymore, isn't it?

And, I believe they were saying there is both thimerosol and mercury in the multi-dose.

I don't think so. They're giving the weight (based on % weight mercury in thimerosal). If you have evidence that thimerosal breaks down spontaneously in the vials, post it.

Even if you were correct on that one issue, it doesn't really mater. If people ask if there's mercury, they don't need a "chemistry" answer.

Bullshit they don't. The "chemistry" answer as you put it is THE answer.

Too often it's stated outright as mercury, which carries all the connotations along with it despite the fact that it is untrue. In fact, I believe this is intentional as "mercury" sounds much scarier than "ethylmercury," which would more than likely make people's eyes glaze over and they'd zone out.

About Orac

Everybody needs to read this. This is the anonymous "doctor" that he hides behind in his analysis.

You need to go bury your head. You're sunk!
Go peddle your crap somewhere else.

Did I say the entity didn't exist? No. Do you still not get that the case you pointed to was 2000, therefore would not be relevant to my point?

Did you ever address the fact it doesn't matter because the Patriot Act provision would disallow any compensation? Especially in a mass-casualty event as would be the case during a pandemic.

Everybody needs to read this. This is the anonymous "doctor" that he hides behind in his analysis.

You need to go bury your head. You're sunk!
Go peddle your crap somewhere else.

LOL

Did you ever address the fact it doesn't matter because the Patriot Act provision would disallow any compensation? Especially in a mass-casualty event as would be the case during a pandemic.

No I haven't because you haven't provided a link for it yet.

Studies are underway with the 2009 H1N1 vaccines.

In parallel with the above study, they also tested the 2009 H1N1 vaccine in children and adults. If there's been any significant problems I haven't heard about them.

Another on going trial.

ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier: NCT00963430

Estimated Enrollment: 120
Study Start Date: September 2009
Estimated Study Completion Date: July 2010
Estimated Primary Completion Date: July 2010 (Final data collection date for primary outcome measure)

ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier: NCT00905125

Estimated Enrollment: 200
Study Start Date: June 2009
Estimated Study Completion Date: June 2010
Estimated Primary Completion Date: June 2010 (Final data collection date for primary outcome measure)

ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier: NCT00943631

Enrollment: 408
Study Start Date: August 2009
Estimated Study Completion Date: March 2010
Estimated Primary Completion Date: March 2010 (Final data collection date for primary outcome measure)

ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier: NCT00943488

Enrollment: 450
Study Start Date: August 2009
Estimated Study Completion Date: April 2010
Estimated Primary Completion Date: April 2010 (Final data collection date for primary outcome measure)

Enrollment: 583
Study Start Date: August 2009
Estimated Study Completion Date: April 2010
Estimated Primary Completion Date: April 2010 (Final data collection date for primary outcome measure)

Estimated Enrollment: 850
Study Start Date: August 2009
Estimated Study Completion Date: May 2010
Estimated Primary Completion Date: May 2010 (Final data collection date for primary outcome measure)

Estimated Enrollment: 650
Study Start Date: August 2009
Estimated Study Completion Date: June 2010
Estimated Primary Completion Date: June 2010 (Final data collection date for primary outcome measure)

Do we notice a pattern here? Fortunately 190 MILLION doses were ordered already...and the drug companies have total immunity from vaccine injury.

I guess I just don't understand how surviving past middle-age bestows one with an honorary Ph.D in each and every natural science. Explain?
#72 | Posted by Zarathustra

It doesn't take a PhD to spot simple flaws in scientific arguments, or politics and religion, for that matter. When people become attached to a belief, they'll defend it no matter much evidence you produce against them. I'm very good at logic and reason, which is what pisses so many people off.

For the record, I did not assert that vaccines cause autism. In #15 I argued:

"It's a garden variety flu season and the scaremongers are scared the public isn't buying their bullshit. I've been noticing a growing public backlash against vaccines in the past few years. Unless the vaccine makers find an alternate explanation for autism, critics say the epidemiological evidence points to them."

All I know about Jenny McCarthy is that she's hot and married to Jim Carey.

One of my fans is a Marxist, the other a global warmist, and the other never says what his gripe is. You are welcome to keep company with them.

Ray is a stopped watch.

When people become attached to a belief, they'll defend it no matter much evidence you produce against them.

Except your definition of "evidence" seems to be rather loose.

I'm very good at logic and reason, which is what pisses so many people off.

And yet you continue to push positions such as this:

Unless the vaccine makers find an alternate explanation for autism, critics say the epidemiological evidence points to them

To which I reply, again, it is up to the critics to SHOW the epidemiological evidence points to vaccines. So far they have not done so. So far, the evidence has NOT shown a link.

It is not up to the vaccine producers to disprove what the "critics" say, it is up to the "critics" to back their statements with evidence. Get how this works?

Except your definition of "evidence" seems to be rather loose.

Injecting toxins into the bloodstream is at minimum quackery, and at maximum, criminal. The human body is too complex to foresee all the unintended consquences. The evidence: deaths from pharmaceuticals are over 100,000 a year.

And yet you continue to push positions such as this:

It's my passion for truth wherever it may lead.

To which I reply, again, it is up to the critics to SHOW the epidemiological evidence points to vaccines. So far they have not done so. So far, the evidence has NOT shown a link.

You say they haven't. The critics say they have. Personally, when nutritution is far superior, I see no reason to take vaccines.

It is not up to the vaccine producers to disprove what the "critics" say, it is up to the "critics" to back their statements with evidence. Get how this works

The tobacco companies had the same lack of curiosity. If the pharmaceutical companies are at fault they can't admit it. The lawsuits would bankrupt them.

"I see no reason to take vaccines."

Polio, smallpox, etc.

And

About vaccines and the diseases they prevent:
* Diphtheria
Diphtheria used to be a major cause of childhood illness and death. Today there are only a few cases a year. This change is due largely to our parents and grandparents, who got their children immunized.
* Pertussis
If you've ever seen a child with pertussis you, won't forget it. A child with Whooping Cough can have difficulty eating, drinking, or even breathing.
* Tetanus
Tetanus enters the body through cuts in the skin. You can get tetanus from a shiny nail as easily as from a rusty one.
* Hepatitis B
Hepatitis B is a disease that affects the liver.
* Pneumococcal
The Streptococcus pneumoniae bacteria kills more people in the United States each year than all other vaccine-preventable diseases combined (about 40,000).
* Measles
* Mumps
* Rubella
* Chickenpox
* H. influenzae b
* Influenza
* Meningococcal
Meningitis is an infection of the spinal cord and fluid surrounding the brain.
www.cispimmunize.org

Polio, smallpox, etc.
#84 | Posted by Zatoichi

For life theatening disease like tetanus and meningitis, where time is critical, allotropic medicine has no equal.

For preventing disease, the nutritional approach is superior. When one has time for the body to heal itself, nutritional supplements are again superior.

Why is that?

Establishment medicine has cause and effect reversed. By treating the symptom as if it was the cause, they force the body to move the underlying problems somewhere else. Worse, our body has to detoxify a foreign agent. So while they appear to cure in the short term, they create worse problems that manifest in the long term. For example, I had an uncle who took blood pressure medicine for decades. Finally, it wrecked his kidneys.

Pathogens are scavengers. That is they feed off of dead and unhealthy tissue. If we don't get the nitrution and exercise that our bodies need to maintain optimum health, we weaken our immune defenses making us vulnerable to disease.

Generally speaking, disease is not caused by our helpless vulnerability to pathogens. Disease is a warning sign that we are not maintaining our health to the degree are bodies are capable.

#86 | Posted by Ray at 2009-10-14 03:47 PM | Reply | Flag: idiot

Ray isn't a stopped clock.
A stopped clock is correct twice a day.

A stopped clock is correct twice a day.

But it doesn't know it.

Pathogens are scavengers. That is they feed off of dead and unhealthy tissue. If we don't get the nitrution and exercise that our bodies need to maintain optimum health, we weaken our immune defenses making us vulnerable to disease.

Generally speaking, disease is not caused by our helpless vulnerability to pathogens. Disease is a warning sign that we are not maintaining our health to the degree are bodies are capable.

Absolutely incorrect, Ray. What you're saying here contradicts the entirety of germ theory.

Pathogens are not "scavengers" as you put it, merely feeding. They are what makes the tissue unhealthy. They are what cause disease.

Your use of the phrase "helpless vulnerability" betrays the lack of in depth knowledge that you possess on this topic.

-the lack of in depth knowledge that you possess on this topic.

And more other topics than he can count without removing his shoes.

Ray - I agree with your #86. Nutrition is an important factor in health, as is exercise.

On topic: The last time I actually had the "flu" was when I had gotten the shot! Figures. Never again. My son has already had the pig flu twice, so I guess he's strong enough to deal with it. Symptoms were bad, but it didn't last long (about a week). 104 degree fever x 3 days, vomitting, aches & pains, cough and sinus. I know LOTS of ppl here that either have had it already or have family / friends that have it. So much for timely prevention.

Preventing the flu / colds is easy, just WASH YOUR HANDS. Use hot water & soap and scrub for 20-30 seconds. All the scaremongering by the vaccine co's is to get more $$.

Absolutely incorrect, Ray. What you're saying here contradicts the entirety of germ theory.

I know what germ theory says. That was my point about the error of reversing cause and effect. Scientists have a history of resisting paradigm shifts.

Pathogens are not "scavengers" as you put it, merely feeding. They are what makes the tissue unhealthy. They are what cause disease.

Bad diet makes tissue unhealthy. There is a wealth of information on nutritutional deficiencies. That they work, has contributed to the growing interest in natural cures.

Your use of the phrase "helpless vulnerability" betrays the lack of in depth knowledge that you possess on this topic.

That is the word of one who rather condemn what he does not understand. There is not a spec of curiousity in you.

Preventing the flu / colds is easy, just WASH YOUR HANDS. Use hot water & soap and scrub for 20-30 seconds. All the scaremongering by the vaccine co's is to get more $$.

While hand washing certainly helps, it's not a cure all for a virus like influenza that can spread very efficiently through airborne droplets.

And no, it's not scaremongering, it's called being cautious.

I know what germ theory says. That was my point about the error of reversing cause and effect.

Except there is VOLUMES of evidence documenting mechanisms of disease and pathogenesis by numerous pathogens.

Scientists have a history of resisting paradigm shifts.

Yes. Sufficient evidence must be presented before a working hypothesis is modified or discarded. Otherwise, there'd be no coherent direction in science.

Bad diet makes tissue unhealthy. There is a wealth of information on nutritutional deficiencies.

As far as I've seen nutritional deficiency does not equal unhealthy tissue in the extreme that you're portraying.

That they work, has contributed to the growing interest in natural cures.

And yet every time one of these "natural" cures is tested rigorously, it fails. "Natural cures" is an industry driven largely by profit motive.

That is the word of one who rather condemn what he does not understand. There is not a spec of curiousity in you.

I don't condemn it, Ray. I've stated numerous times nutrition is absolutely important. Where we differ is the extreme to which you think it will prevent illness.

Also, I have plenty of curiosity. I wouldn't do what I do if I didn't.

My lack of interest (and extreme skepticism) in much of what you say is based in my knowledge of microbiology, immunology and disease pathogenesis.

Except there is VOLUMES of evidence documenting mechanisms of disease and pathogenesis by numerous pathogens.

Not disuputing. Again, it confuses cause and effect. We live in a sea of pathogens 24/7, summer through winter. It's when our immune defenses break, do they get a foothold. For example, there is no season for flu viruses like there is for, say, flowers. The common denominator for flu is the sun and our body's production of vitamin D.

Yes. Sufficient evidence must be presented before a working hypothesis is modified or discarded. Otherwise, there'd be no coherent direction in science.

The alternative medicine industry has tons of it. Mainstreamn's lack of interest has to do with the fact that they can't patent any of it. In other cases like yours, it's from training.

My lack of interest (and extreme skepticism) in much of what you say is based in my knowledge of microbiology, immunology and disease pathogenesis.

With one exception, I don't challenge your knowledge. Your training teaches you to look at disease with pathogens as a cause. To look at pathogens as an efect would force you to look at the chain of events that existed prior to a person getting sick.

To the tanning boothsk, forget the vaccines.
I'm all for that.

Forgetsk the vaccines.
uk uk uk uk!

we've got to stop these scumbag propagandists before it's too late!

Redskins Cheerleader Diagnosed with Dystonia after Taking Seasonal Shot

Desiree Jennings thought it would be a good idea to get the seasonal flu shot. Her job offered incentives for it, and she didn't want to get sick.

Ten days after she got the shot at a Reston Safeway, she did get sick.

"I got flu-like symptoms -- nausea, vomiting, body aches, fever -- then was lethargic for a week and started blacking out," said Jennings, an AOL employee and Washington Redskins ambassador hoping to one day be a cheerleader for the team, the Loudoun Times-Mirror reported.

Doctors couldn't figure out why her ability to speak and walk were so adversely affected. She saw neurologists, physical therapists and psychologists.

"I was hoping for Lyme, praying for lupus, even Graves' disease," she said. "Unfortunately they were all ruled out."

Finally, doctors at Johns Hopkins figured it out, diagnosing dystonia, a rare neurological condition with no cure brought on by infections, brain trauma or, as is believed in her case, reaction to medication. It causes body jerks and abnormal or repetitive movements.

Listen to this latest message just given out by vaccine producer:

The vaccine maker Sanofi Pasteur says tests of its swine flu vaccine suggest that children under 10 may need two doses to be fully protected.

Children don't complain, once recommended they all go get the vaccines, since about 50% of adults are refusing to take the vaccine they have come up with another way to sell every last money making dose, I mean, every last immunization.

The vaccine maker Sanofi Pasteur says tests of its swine flu vaccine suggest that children under 10 may need two doses to be fully protected.

Give me a break. I am not going to take this now for any reason, too suspicious.

40 deaths and 15,000 substantive adverse Gardasil reactions

#49 | Posted by L_RContrarian

A neighbor of ours has a 13-ish yr old daughter. She had two of three of the Gardisil regimine and became violently ill, requiring a lengthy hospital stay. The child has missed almost the whole year of school.

An now they suspect she may be sterile forever. Spin the wheel. Every chump gets a spin.

I am waiting to hear that they have filed a lawsuit. They are the type too.

Questions continue to swirl around HPV vaccination, which works best if given to females before they become sexually active. Some would prefer to promote abstinence and safe sex.

Giving a thirteen year old GUARDISIL so that when she has sex she won't get sexually transmitted infections?

Noble and honorable moralty is in short supply in the US.

And the SCHOOLS are offering it to the kids without parents having to be informed.

How you like them apples?

Here is the story, (PART OF IT I LEFT OUT THE PERIOD AT THE END SO and I gave credit be sure and visit WUSA9.COM!

___________________

One Ashburn woman wants you to hear her story before you line up to get your seasonal flu shot.

ASHBURN, Va. (WUSA) -- Many of you have been lining up to get the seasonal flu shot. But there is one Ashburn woman who wants you to hear her story before you do.

Desiree Jennings is trapped in her body. Intellectually she's all there, but her muscles are fighting each other. She's been diagnosed with dystonia, an extremely rare and debilitating neurological disease.
FOLLOW UP: Doctors Agree
She says after taking the seasonal flu shot she witnessed her body's rapid decline. She doesn't know what else it could be but she has serious questions about the seasonal flu shot. The Centers for Disease Control cannot comment on her case.

Desiree was a healthy 25-year-old up until two months ago, working at AOL and as a Redskins cheerleading ambassador.

But her world has now been turned upside down.

Desiree has trouble talking and speaks in a staccato rhythm.

She says, "It's a battle every day because when I wake up I think it's going to be normal, but then I'm quickly reminded that's not going to be the case."

She says 10 days after getting a seasonal flu shot at a Reston grocery store in August, and on her second wedding anniversary, she got sick. First, she came down with flu like symptoms, then convulsions and blacking out.

She's seen more than 60 doctors. She says all of them were stumped until Johns Hopkins diagnosed her with dystonia. She believes her seasonal flu shot triggered it.

Desiree says, "Nothing else explains such a fast moving neurological damage. The medical hospitals ruled out everything, CAT scans normal, blood normal, MRI normal. The only thing that explains it is the shot caused the neurologic damage."

She says it is a strange disorder where muscles work against each other. She can't walk forward, only backwards. She can run, but she can't stop without help. She can whisper but has difficulty speaking. Noises can cause convulsions. Her resting heart rate is 90. When she runs her blood pressure dips to 58. She gets exhausted walking a few steps but she could run for hours.

Drugs such as valium and klonopin that make other people sleepy give her energy for hours.

Simple exercises become nearly impossible.

Desiree's husband, Brendan, says, "It gets worse everyday. It's heartbreaking to see."

Desiree says the disease is irreversible. Once she loses an ability it doesn't come back. She says there are only three ways you can get dystonia as an adult and they include head trauma, drug use, and poisoning. She says she has not experienced any of that.

There is no cure. One in a million are diagnosed with the disease. She says she just wants healthy people to talk to their doctors and weigh the risk.

While the Centers for Disease Control cannot comment directly on this case, they say they have no knowledge of a link between the seasonal flu shot and dystonia (NO PEROIOD SO I DIDN'T COPY THE WHOLE THING.

PLEASE VISIT WUSA9.COM and buy whatever they are selling there! Nice story...

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