i wish our son could have taken advantage of this - I WANT MY CAR BACK MORE THAN TWO DAYS A WEEK!

talk about a landslide - i'm surprised the indicator didn't shoot right off the bottom of the graph!

Sorry but I disagree. You took decent automobiles off the road that could have gone to some struggling family in desperate need of transportation. Also it drove up the cost of used cars at used car lots cause You took a bunch of good sellable cars off of the road. What a waste of energy as well because it will take gobs of energy to melt the metals down forming a new product. I wonder how much fuel it would take to equal that energy output?? It's a T TOTAL joke and half. Sorry.

Larry

The POSITIVE results of "Cash for Clunkers":


It's taken 95% of the Obama bumper stickers off the road...

From a real "Car Guy" out in Los Angeles, CA.
______________________________
______________________________
SO...you took FEDZILLA up on its offer of $4500. dollars to trade in your old "Clunker" (interesting choice of words)? Well, let's see who got the best of that "deal"...
If you traded in a clunker worth $3500, you got $4500 off for an apparent "savings" of $1000. You could have gotten $3,500 if you had just traded the car in. So you really are $1,000 ahead (depending on your clunker's value) at this point. Not too bad...

However, you WILL have to pay taxes on the $4500 come April 15th (something that no auto dealer will tell you). If you are in the 30% tax bracket, you will pay $1350 on that $4500.

So, rather than save $1000, you will actually pay an extra $350. to the feds. In addition, you traded in a car that was most likely paid for. Now you have 4 or 5 years of payments on a car that you did not need, trading in a "clunker" that was costing you less to run than the payments that you will now be making. Even if you save $1,000. dollars a year in gas due to better mileage, you're still gonna be in the red for five years....hello?

But wait, it gets even better: you also got ripped off by the dealer. For example, the month before the "cash for clunkers" program started, every dealer here in LA was selling the Ford Focus with all the goodies including A/C, auto transmission, power windows, etc for $12,500. because competition was stiff due to poor sales from the stalled economy.

When "cash for clunkers" came along, they stopped discounting them and instead sold them at the list price of $15,500. So, you paid $3000 more than you would have the month before. Honda, Toyota , and Kia played the same list price game that Ford and Chevy did. Now let's do the math...
You traded in a car worth: $3500
You got a discount of: $4500
---------
Net so far +$1000
But you have to pay: $1350 in taxes on the $4500
--------
Net so far: -$350 (that's minus...in the red)
And you paid: $3000 more than the car was selling for the month before
----------
Net Loss: -$3350

We could also add in the additional taxes (sales tax, state tax, dealer prep, etc.) on the extra $3000 that you paid for the car, along with the Five years of interest on the car loan; but let's just stop here while you kick yourself. Suffice it to say that those costs will be much higher than any savings you get from "better mileage".

So who actually made out on the deal? FEDZILLA collected taxes on the car along with taxes on the $4500 they "gave" you. The car dealers made an extra $3000 or more on every car they sold along with the kickbacks from the manufacturers and the loan companies. Manufacturers got to dump lots of cars they could not give away the month before. Lots of good or repairable used cars got taken off the market, crushed and sold as scrap metal to (ready for this?) CHINA! (Look it up...) And the poor consumer got saddled with even more debt that they cannot afford.

FEDZILLA'S merry men (who promised that people making less than $250,000. would pay "not one red cent more in taxes") will make millions in new tax revenues after convincing Joe Consumer that he was getting $4500 in "free" money from the "government" In fact, Joe was giving away his $3500 car and paying an additional $3350 for the privilege. Chicago politics gone global...with an agenda.
If you find errors in this math, please let me know...being a simple guy, I'm always willing to learn new things; and if you took "advantage" of the Clunkers deal, I have some swamp land down in Florida that's for sale...

It was a great boost for Toyota and Hyundai and Ford.

However, you WILL have to pay taxes on the $4500 come April 15th (something that no auto dealer will tell you). If you are in the 30% tax bracket, you will pay $1350 on that $4500.

Wrong. Try again.

Is the credit subject to being taxed as income to the consumers that participate in the program?

NO. The CARS Act expressly provides that the credit is not income for the consumer.

From a real "Car Guy" out in Los Angeles, CA.

Your real "car guy" doesn't know his shit.

I would've used it if I could, but I was responsible long ago and bought a reliable, fuel efficient car that didn't qualify under this program. Kinda wish I went with the gas guzzler so I too could qualify for a free new vehicle.

#3 - FF!

not so true - i noticed a couple of suv's that previously had OBAMA/BIDEN stickers on them STILL on the road without the bumperstickers...oooooooooo...

"Your real "car guy" doesn't know his shit."

This comes as no surprise...KBM's kind of a dumb-ass.

My mom would be one of them Nanc. It fell off after so long up there. She has a new one coming.

i noticed a couple of suv's that previously had OBAMA/BIDEN stickers on them STILL on the road without the bumperstickers

I have heard of people removing the stickers after being run off the road by teabaggers. ...soooooooooooooooooo......

You know I would love to know the energy those cash for clunkers vehicles would have used compared to the fuel necessary to not only to melt the metals on those vehicles and make new products out of them. but also the Energy it took to replace those clunkers. compared to the supposed gas savings these new vehicles are supposed to save. I bet You come out negative for savings if You run it through a calculator.

Larry

Isn't it considered racist to remove a B.O. Bumper Sticker?

Isn't it considered racist to remove a B.O. Bumper Sticker?

Would it be better to nig.....Jury rig it?

#12 | Posted by kanrei - one in party cooler i know of was purposely scraped off - business owners - people boycotting their business.

p.s. - kanrei - it would seem ridiculous for them to keep it on a cadi/escalade in light of what is going on, yes?

You know I would love to know the energy those cash for clunkers vehicles would have used compared to the fuel necessary to not only to melt the metals on those vehicles and make new products out of them. but also the Energy it took to replace those clunkers. compared to the supposed gas savings these new vehicles are supposed to save. I bet You come out negative for savings if You run it through a calculator.

Larry

#14 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2009-10-13 01:26 PM | Flag: Not partisan lefty

Wonder how sales are now?

I know of a handful of people at work who have slowly awoken from their drunken stupor and have removed their stickers. The same folks also avoid conversations about the current yahoo in charge.

Kan, The other term, is not Jury rig, it is Jerry rig which refers to the ability of German ingenuity and ability to fix things without replacement parts. It is a gruging acknowledgement of the resourcefulness of German WW2 war machine.

i noticed a couple of suv's that previously had OBAMA/BIDEN stickers on them STILL on the road without the bumperstickers

I have heard of people removing the stickers as the election is over. Who keeps old campaign stickers on their car? (I think people that put them there in the first place are fucking nuts anyway.) But who in the hell would leave an election sticker on the car after the election?

Oh look, a stupid fucking W sticker. How cute......

Month on month, ford sales are up when compared to a year ago. I know this directly as I bill them based on consumption a their facilities. Output at those plants is up when compared to last years numbers. Confidentiality areements prevent me from detailing quantityor magnitude, but their press releases support this.

LM

#22 | Posted by Manypaths - don't know - they JUST removed it in the last month or so. business owners you know...

What stickers are on your bike nanc?

"Honk if you love Crotchety Old Women!"

Conservatice Bumper stickers of the past: (Sure, you can play)

"Keep Our Kids Segregated!!!"

"Keep Darky Down!!!"

"Woman Can't vote!!!"

"Back of the Bus Negro!!"

"Civil Rights are for Whites!!!"

(You guys should be glad that we Left as a Country. Could you imagine returning to the Conservatives' way of White Males First?

Thank a Progressive!

Kan, The other term, is not Jury rig, it is Jerry rig which refers to the ability of German ingenuity and ability to fix things without replacement parts. It is a gruging acknowledgement of the resourcefulness of German WW2 war machine.

#21 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2009-10-13 03:16 PM |

I used to think that too, but I looked it up before posting it.

Main Entry: juryrig
Pronunciation: ˈju̇r-ē-ˌrig, -ˈrig
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: 2jury
Date: 1788

so I too could qualify for a free new vehicle.

#9 | POSTED BY LIVE_OR_DIE AT 2009-10-13 01:00 PM

Hahaahahaahaahahaa, that's funny bro!

Were they handing out free vehicles? I missed that.

Uh, anyone buying a new vehicle loses about $7k when they drive it off the lot, depending on the make/model of course. Look at your paperwork for the "gap" insurance they stick on your tab. That covers the difference between what you paid and what the car is worth the instant you drive it off the lot.

Kinda reminds me of the movie The Jerk, when Navin finally figures out the carney routine he's running is a "profit" deal (scam).

The govt owns gm. The cash for clunkers was devised to help sell cars-you know for the car companies to benefit.

Not the buyers.

There's one born every minute
PT Barnum

"Keep Our Kids Segregated!!!"

"Keep Darky Down!!!"

"Woman Can't vote!!!"

"Back of the Bus Negro!!"

"Civil Rights are for Whites!!!"

(You guys should be glad that we Left as a Country. Could you imagine returning to the Conservatives' way of White Males First?

Thank a Progressive!

#27 | Posted by Manypaths - FLAG; left out the part about the Dems ending slavery

#27 May I suggest...

Honk if you're white.

#25 | Posted by Manypaths - my husband will not allow stickers on my car - a few months ago i put some magnets on the back of the largest googly eyes and put them on the back of my car - he removed them. I want a set of longhorns on the front and his bf had a set for me, but he said, "NO!" He's otherwise amenable to everything i want.

The little graph there... looks like the beginning of a heart-beat blip to me. Sure I see a peak, but the line is aiming down. What do you suppose the future holds for this graph? Like I said the first time the "success" claim was made...

I don't know what good this will do in the long run. It's like a tapped well (oil or water)... you've got the whole neighborhood sucking on the tit, figuratively speaking. It'll take time to replenish the goods... ya know what I mean?
Granted there were many sales in the short span of the program, but I doubt there will be any more for quite some time. Everybody that was serious and/or capable already bought their car. The remainder of those who are able will likely have that, "I missed out" feeling that will further hinder a future sale at least until that wares off. Some months from now, the only thing indicating the "Cash for Clunkers" happened will be a spike and the reactive dip in our little car-sales line graph. The market has a momentum behind it. Ya pedal hard up the hill, you'll get tired faster, end up coasting longer, and likely make it up the hill at the same time as the rest - if not behind the guy pacing himself. The Quick-fix spurt only works in the short-race, not the marathon. Analogies are fun aren't they?
They're like from Yoda, Mr. Miyagi, or some Native-American wise man that can morph into a hawk in his free time. They (analogies) do, however, fall short in cheese compared to puns - which saddens me.
#30 | Posted by R0B0T at 2009-08-24 04:58 PM |

Robot,
I agree about the pifall in demand after the program ends. I plan on waiting a month or two and getting $4,500 off the sticker price by negotiating.
Your analogy seems to argue against any stimulas at all - helping in the ST, but bad for LT. I believe stimulas is needed in bad times, just like higher interest rates are needed in the boom times to try and flatten the hills and valleys.
#32 | Posted by BenFranklinn

Perhaps this analogy better fits the bill... Think of a dam holding back water. You open the flood gates to limit the water that can pass through into the valley. Manipulating the interest rates is as though you close the gates some in order to allow the water to back-build while we wait for the rain. In better times, it's as you say - you open 'em up so the dam doesn't break. I see these stimuli as not regulating the flow, but magically creating the rain. However, there's no such thing as magic is there? The reality is they're trucking in the "rain" from China and we tax payers are the ones assigned to dumping the water into the river one bucket at a time... like slaves.

The clunkers program is an illusion. It suits the previous bike pedaling scenario just fine. Nothing happened.

Posted by R0B0T