There was a similar headline last week that turned out to be a joke. While figuring that out I stumbled on to this web site.

Shhhh, don't tell doc. He is on a roll.

Where's Waldo?

This thread is on the frontpage and backpage at the same time. Never seen that before.

Public Option Bad For Business.

TRANSLATION:

Uncle Sam is taking a huge cut and all the juice out of our profit margin. I may have to compete with you for the Mickey D's job.

If it worked, the public option would also be bad for the environment.

This is what will happen to many many small businesses.

They will not hire, layoff or whatever.

The Senate bill is as bad as the House bill.

Taxes galore--tax the people, the businesses--everyone.

They vote tomorrow don't they?

This thread is on the frontpage and backpage at the same time.

It's a Mobius thread.

Taxes galore--tax the people, the businesses--everyone.

And yet the economies with national health care all seem to be doing better than the US, both in recovering from Bush's recession and in deficits. Funny that....

Funeral directors are about the worse scumbags in existence. Of course they don't provide their employees with health care. They milk people when they are emotionally distressed and confused, charging ridiculous fees.

Any funeral directors here?

I can't see how funeral directors would give a shit either way (other than having to pony up extra money for their own employees)... its not like people are going to live forever.

Does it matter to them if you die today, next week, or next year?

So, why, exactly, did someone start a thread about what these people think? Why not a thread about the number of doctors that will retire if some manner of public option is passed? In an IBD poll, 45% of actual practicing doctors (as opposed to the leadership of the AMA) said they would consider quitting if the current crap in washington is passed. I included a link in case someone really wants to see the article.

Using the loop hole that business doesn't have to provide health care to part time employees has led to a rash of people losing full time positions as employers finangle work schedules to ensure a majority of full time part time workers with few if any benefits.

The usual reasons are given for these moves, rising health care costs, competiveness, tough economic times etcetera but the bottom line has been that the american Dream has slipped further and further away from more working class Americans as these changes have come about.

The article itself is hilarious.

The reality-detached right consoling themselves that they alone have still have a stranglehold lock on the truth is always good fer a laff.

Be Well.

"So, why, exactly, did someone start a thread about what these people think? Why not a thread about the number of doctors that will retire if some manner of public option is passed? In an IBD poll, 45% of actual practicing doctors (as opposed to the leadership of the AMA) said they would consider quitting if the current crap in washington is passed. I included a link in case someone really wants to see the article."

I hope none of them are among those criticizing the bill(s) because of an alleged shortage of doctors. That would be either hypocritical or ironic, depending on your perspective.

#5 | Posted by AuntieSocial: Uncle Sam is taking a huge cut and all the juice out of our profit margin.

Health care is one place where profit margins should be a secondary concern.

"There was a similar headline last week that turned out to be a joke. While figuring that out I stumbled on to this web site."

Life imitating art imitating life imitating...oh, hell, who can keep this stuff straight anymore?

#11 | Posted by 1libertarian: Why not a thread about the number of doctors that will retire if some manner of public option is passed? In an IBD poll, 45% of actual practicing doctors (as opposed to the leadership of the AMA) said they would consider quitting if the current crap in Washington is passed.

According to the article: The poll contradicts the claims of not only the White House, but also doctors' own lobby the powerful American Medical Association both of which suggest the medical profession is behind the proposed overhaul.

I would put more stock into the AMA than a poll conducted by Investor Business Daily.

Funeral directors are about the worse scumbags in existence. Of course they don't provide their employees with health care. They milk people when they are emotionally distressed and confused, charging ridiculous fees.

Any funeral directors here?

#10 | Posted by furio

My buddy is a Funeral Director. They are not scumbags, they do what is necessary. The margin of profit for an owner of a Funeral Home is high, but individual funeral directors don't make much.

But my buddy did mention the NFDA saying that it's bad for business, means it's bad for business (less death). It's already a 'dying' profession in that the rural areas (just like doctors) aren't able to find replacements and that's ruining their chance for retirement cause they won't leave their town unprovided for.

#15 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis: Life imitating art imitating life imitating

Wouldn't have found this without ya Doc.

According to the article: The poll contradicts the claims of not only the White House, but also doctors' own lobby the powerful American Medical Association both of which suggest the medical profession is behind the proposed overhaul.

I would put more stock into the AMA than a poll conducted by Investor Business Daily.

#16 | Posted by hope4hope at 2009-10-13 06:53 AM

You might want to look at the AMA membership. I believe that less than 20% of practicing physicians are actually members of the AMA. I think I would actually poll the doctors instead of polling the AMA who's memberships are still declining.

Problem is, most of the business owners out there think they are entitled to be guaranteed a growing market for their services and products forever and ever. It just doesn't work that way folks.

Go back 100 years and think how stupid it would be if horse-drawn buggy makers lobbied to stop the automobile because it would hurt business.

Typewriter companies lobbying against intel and amd to stop the advanced in microcomputers.

No market is guaranteed and eventually you must adapt, shift your services, or die.

#19 | Posted by T_Man: I believe that less than 20% of practicing physicians are actually members of the AMA.

Twenty percent of all practicing physicians is still collectively more practicing doctors than any other trade organization for doctors. Also, why would the AMA go against a policy shift that truly had the majority of doctors so upset they'd quit the profession? They would have so much to lose and nothing to gain.

Doctors want reform. All the medical-caused bankruptcies leave their bills unpaid. Insurance companies are not hurt by those bankruptcies. They get their premiums no matter what.

"But my buddy did mention the NFDA saying that it's bad for business, means it's bad for business (less death)."

Silly rabbit!

One death per person will still be the going rate!

Assumption. The death rate means nothing.
Because this health insurance isn't going to change it over the long haul.

Look at it this way:

There are 6 billion people alive today.
Within 100 years ALL 6 Billion will die.
(fact)
Also more will be born.

When they die we don't know, but all will die wether or wether not we have health care.
Rate will be the same regardless.

that is like 200-300 million a year will die no matter what you do
That is a million people a day every day for 100 years.

So the swine flu killed 43 (whatever) people so far?
well, 1 million died today from other causes.

puts things in perspective, don't it?

Problem is, most of the business owners out there think they are entitled to be guaranteed a growing market for their services and products forever and ever. It just doesn't work that way folks.

Go back 100 years and think how stupid it would be if horse-drawn buggy makers lobbied to stop the automobile because it would hurt business.

Typewriter companies lobbying against intel and amd to stop the advanced in microcomputers.

No market is guaranteed and eventually you must adapt, shift your services, or die.
#20 | Posted by unklegwar at 2009-10-13 10:21 AM

Your arguement refers to innovations that took time to adopt. Horse-drawn buggys or typewrites didn't just instantly disappear when a new innovation came out. It tooks many years make that change.

When a new operating system comes out, everyone in the US or world doesn't upgrade. Businesses have to trial and test to make sure it will work properly in their enviroments. No one forces it upon them and they upgrade/update at their own pace.

Also, How is government run health care an innovation of the medical industry?

Health care is this: Doctor sees patient. Doctor makes patient well. Patient pays doctor.
everyone is happy.

Laweyers can't get a real job, so they use government to force money from the working poor (force) and to pay them for their efforts to cast dispersion on medical care rendered and to make every inevitable outcome to appear to be a mistake, so more money can be taken. Money taken from Doctor and given to patient and to trouble maker, thus encouraging more behaviour.

Does anyone see an unecessary element in this picture?

Twenty percent of all practicing physicians is still collectively more practicing doctors than any other trade organization for doctors. Also, why would the AMA go against a policy shift that truly had the majority of doctors so upset they'd quit the profession? They would have so much to lose and nothing to gain.

Doctors want reform. All the medical-caused bankruptcies leave their bills unpaid. Insurance companies are not hurt by those bankruptcies. They get their premiums no matter what.

#21 | Posted by hope4hope at 2009-10-13 10:37 AM

Your earlier point wasn't the fact that the AMA might have more doctors as members than any other trade organization but just that because the AMA said something or promotes something that is medically related then the entire medical profession leans the same way.

My point was that polling individual doctors will get better results than listening to the AMA who are losing members (Who are doctors) on a daily basis. Much more than than are gaining.

Doctors wouldn't be leaving the AMA if they agreed with them and I don't see any satistics of doctors joining the AMA just because they are backing Obamas Health car plan. The Whitehouse could have made a special deal with the AMA to get their support. You're assumption is just rediculas.

#24 | Posted by T_Man: How is government run health care an innovation of the medical industry?

Like all the other industrialized nations in the world, America is realizing government must step in to ensure that health care is affordable for the masses. The argument that this will hurt the private insurance companies is not valid. The status quo is not acceptable. Change (innovation) is necessary. No industry is guaranteed that the status quo will stay intact forever. (ie: Internet vs. newspapers)

Bottom line, the funeral directors are worried about short term profits. They are not the least bit worried about their employees any way. They are all zombies.

Like all the other industrialized nations in the world, America is realizing government must step in to ensure that health care is affordable for the masses. The argument that this will hurt the private insurance companies is not valid. The status quo is not acceptable. Change (innovation) is necessary. No industry is guaranteed that the status quo will stay intact forever. (ie: Internet vs. newspapers)

#27 | Posted by hope4hope at 2009-10-13 03:16 PM

Understood and healthcare should be reasonably priced but not free. Free will cause more abuse than what we currently have because no one holds themselves accountable for anything now-a-days. There is a vast lack of self responsibility and no consequences. I'm all about helping those in need but I don't believe in helping those who do not help themselves. That doesn't mean that I hate them because I actually feel sorry for them but I won't and I don't think we, as a country, should go out of our way to help them.

Some of these business owners do make good points that they will lay people off before they dish out more for mandated health care. With unemployment as high as it is, we better be sure that Healthcare reform, no matter how badly it is needed, will not cause higher unemployment as we know it will not increase employment

#29 | Posted by T_Man: With unemployment as high as it is, we better be sure that Healthcare reform, no matter how badly it is needed, will not cause higher unemployment as we know it will not increase employment

Agreed that health care should not be free. We should all pay. As far as employment I think it will free the American worker to move in any direction that they have passion or talent for. No longer will the fear of losing health care stop an entrepreneur from opening his or her own business. Smaller businesses will be more competitive with the larger companies in attracting talent because the health insurance will be comparable. Because other countries have long gone this route, on the international stage American businesses will excel.

British-born American heroine Jessica Mitford's book called The American Way Of Death some decades ago ld to the funeral society co-op movement. Memorial societies not only can lay you away, even cremate you, for pennies on the dollar, but if you want to go to a commercial, conventional, big-bucks undertaker, they'll sit with you and hold your hand while you resist the sales pitches to put the Loved One into a mink-lined casket. herm

And about doctors, lawyers and torts: Malpractice is cutting off the right leg when the left one has gangrene, diagnosing a lung cancer as bronchitis, leaving a scalpel in a patient. It must be that bad or juries side with Uncle Doctor and better-paid defense lawyers. Yes, malpractice insurance is costly ... because physicians are so sloppy. They merely pass the thousands they pay for malpractice insurance on to their patients. Maybe if, on their second malpractice verdict, they were to be disbarred, or whatever the AMA equivalent is ... herm

Hope4hope, I think we could actually come to an agreement with health care but I have no faith in our congressman. We need to bring back personal responsibility if all aspects of our lives.

Herm, as far as malpractice goes, my dad had a knee replacement surgery and the doctor put in a knee cap that was 2x's to big and he's been in pain ever since while the doctor kept saying that it was just swollen and inflamed and kept him going on his rehibilitation process.

My dad will still not take it to court and is just going to pay to have another surgury to fix what happened.

I don't agree with the lawsuits and people just take advantage which is why I said that if people with nothing to lose start going to any doctor for any treatment for free, you will see lawsuits double

I think my dad's doctor was scared to admit he did a botch job because of lawsuits so he kept him in pain for over a year before my dad had to go to another doctor to find out why it hurt so bad. Maybe if the doctor wasn't so affraid of a lawsuit, which my dad would never do, then he might have admitted what happened and just corrected the issue instead of dragging it on.

#33 | POSTED BY T_MAN AT 2009-10-13 08:27 PM | REPLY | FLAG

when you go to the mechanic..
and he puts a 27 inch tire on your car that takes 15" tires..

do you think you would be happy if the doctor had just said, ahh crap i screwed that up, ill fix it, no charge. we will get it done tomorrow.

I remember seeing an episode of "Penn & Teller: Bullshit!" entitled, "Death, Inc.", in which they exposed the (big surprise!) bullshit of funeral homes...

Among many other devastating criticisms, they pointed out that one of the high-priced coffin "options", which touts an airtight seal between the lid and casket proper and purports to "preserve" your "loved one", actually causes your "loved one" to liquefy and more-or-less explode into putrid goo thanks to the actions of anaerobic bacteria.

Fuck funeral directors. Let those dickheads go beg for change on a street-corner.

when you go to the mechanic..
and he puts a 27 inch tire on your car that takes 15" tires..

do you think you would be happy if the doctor had just said, ahh crap i screwed that up, ill fix it, no charge. we will get it done tomorrow.

www.npr.org

#34 | Posted by Valisk at 2009-10-13 10:22 PM

My father is not happy but he's not going to sue for thousands or millions of dollars. He is all about personal responsibility and if the doctor would have apologized and the hospital would have picked up the bill for the new surgury and recovery along with missed pay, then he would have been estatic.

Some people understand personal responsibility and just want what is there's. Others want as much as they can get no matter if it is deserved or not.

"Maybe if the doctor wasn't so affraid of a lawsuit, which my dad would never do, then he might have admitted what happened and just corrected the issue instead of dragging it on.

#33 | Posted by T_Man"

You're joking, right? I mean, you redally can't be this naive, can you? Are you some sort of left wing plant, intended to make the right look even more stupid?

Its not lost business. Its just deferred business.