Howard Dean wrote in his book that a strong public option doesn't even need mandates..... so if he can go along with this idea... getting a very robust option that states can opt out of... it may well be worth considering.

Oh, corky.... and after today's true confessions....

I'm really suspicious.

why are we afraid to use reconciliation?

1.5 trillion in bush tax cuts was done under reconciliation, why is this any different?

-1.5 trillion in bush tax cuts was done under reconciliation, why is this any different?

As was Bush's War, and along with those tax cuts, not paid for in the budget.

The problem with reconciliation is the same as in '94. The Byrd Act prevents certain financial parts of the bill from being considered. Which was noble Dems putting a supposedly purer strain of democracy over aqccomplishing specific goals.

But check the back page for the story on the Opt Out Option.

Oops!

Thought we were still on the other thread...... is it 4:20 yet?

It must be somewhere, eh?

The insurance companies will kill this because the "opt out" will be just like opting out of the stimulus money. Many Republicans will make speeches and pretend their ideology will prevent them from allowing this in their states but the outcry from the people will force them to opt right back in. The insurance industry won't let this go without a big fight.

Amazing. I was waiting for this exact language to show up in the article.....

This would be the easiest step for Republicans take during that period to ensure that the whole thing would unravel. And it would unravel because states that adopted the reform would become magnets for migration by the sick from states that opted out.

When I saw the "opt out" that was the first thing that came to mind.....sick people traveling to another State. This is why I would be very careful about a provision like this.

Dems would be crazy to support that knowing this would be an inevitable result.

Many Republicans will make speeches and pretend their ideology will prevent them from allowing this in their states but the outcry from the people will force them to opt right back in. The insurance industry won't let this go without a big fight.
#5 | Posted by danni

Wouldn't the insurance companies be supportive of an opt-out approach? Sounds like another concession to a party who won't vote for it anyway.

So if a state opts out, does its citizens still have to pay the higher taxes? If Massachusetts is such a success with their own state plan (it isn't, but play along)--will high earners in Boston be asked to pony up higher taxes to support, say, Hawaii's?

Sounds like another concession to a party who won't vote for it anyway

Yep... but both these parties are chickenshits by nature, they don't want to take the blame alone if somthing goes wrong, and will do this very sort of thing to cover their asses and make their lives easier because they have to deal with these people every day.

I'd like to see an argument against individual opting out. I suppose it would be okay if persons skipping universal health care agreed to die by the wayside if they got sick. Sort of like motorcycle helmets. It should be okay to ride without one as long as it's understood that your head injury won't be treated on my dime. herm

Whichever way you slice it, the big brother is broke and will have to just print more money to pay for this. The big brother pays billions of dollars every day just for interest on the federal debt. Repeat after me "DO NOT WHAT IS GOOD FOR THE COUNTRY, DO WHAT IS GOOD FOR MY SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP (RACE, SEX, SEXUAL ORIENTATION, POLITICAL PARTY....ETC, ETC, ETC).

ps: Did anyone see the video of that chinese lady (on the bus) kick the crap out of LAsharonda? Made my day! Do it chinese lady, kick the crap out of that troublemaker!

How about we do the opposite and make a constitutional amendment that every state must provide healthcare for their citizens, whether that means via a public option or by making sure everyone has insurance. Then each state will have to solve their own problems.

"How about we do the opposite and make a constitutional amendment that every state must provide healthcare for their citizens,"

And if they don't what happens???

How about we just make health care a human right and start taxing Americans enough to pay for it and move into the twenty first century with the rest of the world. Our taxes would be less than our insurance premiums are now and we'd make Medicare solvent again.
I will repeat it again hoping more people will get it....allowing insurance companies to insure us when we are young and healthy only to dump us when we are disabled or when we reach 65 and become older and more in need of health care services is a stupid arrangement. It's a big wet kiss for insurance company CEOs. Medicare for all, not because it is the right thing to do but because it is the most cost effective thing to do....and BTW, pssst....dirty little secret here

WE CAN'T AFFORD TO DO ANYTHING ELSE!!!!
The people who are pretending we can know we can't they are only trying to squeeze a few more years of profit out of the system before the whole country goes broke. Remember the USSR, went broke because of Communism....pretty soon they'll be saying...remember the United States...went broke because of laissez faire capitalism.

Yep... but both these parties are chickenshits by nature, they don't want to take the blame alone if somthing goes wrong, and will do this very sort of thing to cover their asses and make their lives easier because they have to deal with these people every day.
#9 | Posted by Corky

Then tell me why we play along again?

"...allowing insurance companies to insure us when we are young and healthy only to dump us when we are disabled or when we reach 65 and become older and more in need of health care services is a stupid arrangement. It's a big wet kiss for insurance company CEOs. Medicare for all, not because it is the right thing to do but because it is the most cost effective thing to do....and BTW, pssst....dirty little secret here..."
#14 | Posted by danni

Then tell me why we're playing along with politicians who are selling public option/public opt-outs when we know what we know?

Yeah and I've got a bridge for yah! Unless EVERYONE is in the public option, there is no chance of paying for the program. Just like Social Security, it is virtually impossible to get out of the Social Security system, unless, of course, you are a member of Congress. What scum these people are to make laws that don't impact them or their families, but create havoc in the lives of everyday citizens. No wonder our Senators, Congress, their staffs, the President (and Federal Employees) don't bother to read and understand the bills they vote for; they have no skin in the game.

I all for it. Hawaii will never opt out and Texas who will opt out, will prove to the world that dying for apathy is the best way to reduce the minority population without having to hire more lawyers for death row inmates.

"I all for it. Hawaii will never opt out and Texas who will opt out, will prove to the world that dying for apathy is the best way to reduce the minority population without having to hire more lawyers for death row inmates."

Bring Out Yer Dead!!!

*pushes wheel barrow on down the lane.

Not a bad idea. Dumbshit red states can opt out, providing a "model" that's not going to impress anyone other than inbred rtards.

We need a Health Care Party. One plank to enact univesal health care (or medicare for all or whatever the hell you want to call it) all other ideals are those of the individual representative. Health care can get passed and people will pay more attention to who they are voting for.

We need a Health Care Party. One plank to enact univesal health care (or medicare for all or whatever the hell you want to call it) all other ideals are those of the individual representative. Health care can get passed and people will pay more attention to who they are voting for.

#20 | Posted by TaoWarrior

Watch Democrats hold hands with the GOP in demonizing and defeating that party. And watch 99% of the Retort join together to do the same. At least I'll be fighting a battle on one front for a change.

Not a bad idea. Dumbshit red states can opt out, providing a "model" that's not going to impress anyone other than inbred rtards.

WHile the bankrupt ones will have no choice. They'll have to mooch off of uncle sugar and be at his mercy because they have no money to do anything else. LOL

WHile the bankrupt ones will have no choice. They'll have to mooch off of uncle sugar and be at his mercy because they have no money to do anything else. LOL

#22 | Posted by goatman

Not enough nibbles on your other lures, trollman? LOL. You have some skills; what is it now three rods you're working? Two hands... how do you manage that?

Uhm... forget I asked.

:P

So let me get this straight. You can keep the insurance you have? Sure!! Every company in America will drop their employee benefits to the bare minimum required by BO. This creates wind fall profit for corporations as they make employees pay more for the coverage they have. Forcing them into the gov't plan...which is cheaper and will never be as good.

Coming to a long line at a hospital near you! Foreign doctors with substandard "degrees" will "help" offset the volume of 45 Million people.

Sure you can keep your insurance...if you can afford it.

Every company in America will drop their employee benefits to the bare minimum required by BO.

Why don't they just drop their coverage now?

This creates wind fall profit for corporations as they make employees pay more for the coverage they have.

Why don't they do that now?

Forcing them into the gov't plan...which is cheaper and will never be as good.

Why don't companies just drop the coverage now?

Coming to a long line at a hospital near you! Foreign doctors with substandard "degrees" will "help" offset the volume of 45 Million people.

Why isn't that the case in every other civilized country in the world? Countries that have Universal Health Care do not have the problems you describe.

Sure you can keep your insurance...if you can afford it.

Explain why companies don't just drop their insurance now. Your support of parasitic insurance companies is noted. Insurance companies suck health care dollars out of the system and do nothing for health care--they are the reason for high health care costs.

#24 | Posted by aclusux at 2009-10-10 09:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

Every company in America will drop their employee benefits to the bare minimum required by BO.

They already have. What the fuck do you think the problem is in the first place? The only difference is they add their fees to the world wide embarrassment that is now American health care.

"Every company in America will drop their employee benefits to the bare minimum required by BO."

They've been doing that for years with rising employee contributions, higher co-pays, less coverage, many just dropping health insurance, outsourcing overseas (millions there), etc.

Now, many corporations are handing their employees notices like "sorry, we will not be able to contribute to your 401K at this time..."

Not enough nibbles on your other lures, trollman? LOL. You have some skills; what is it now three rods you're working? Two hands... how do you manage that?

No, HC, I'm not doing too well tonight. I had a hook out for null earlier tonight and m'boor hit it. I guess when you are going for the bass you get the occasional carp.

why are we afraid to use reconciliation?1.5 trillion in bush tax cuts was done under reconciliation, why is this any different?#2 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-10-09 01:13 PM | Reply |

The answer:
How well did YOU like politics done that way?

What?!?! Not at all?

How much was the Repub party under Bush booted from office?

You'll see a similar reaction if Obama et al use such tactics.

Or do you think YOUR shee doesn't stink?

Remember the USSR, went broke because of Communism....pretty soon they'll be saying...remember the United States...went broke because of laissez faire capitalism.#14 | Posted by danni at 2009-10-10 08:26 PM | Reply |

You apparently have ZERO ability to reason from one fact to another.

Is it your government-run public school upbringing?

The USSR had government-run healthcare...and a whole bunch o' other things.

Can you name a country that ever went broke because of laissez faire capitalism?

I stand corrected--California.
They are a bastion of conservative thought, laissez faire capitalism and their economy is in shambles.

What?
They're "progressive?"
Ohhhhhh, I think I get it now....

"How well did YOU like politics done that way?
What?!?! Not at all?"

I concede that its not high road, but my point was that if it was ever okay for YOU, then now that the shoe is on the other foot, you should just STFU about it.

The whole point really is that if the GOP had any honor they wouldn't fillibuster every piece of legislation the dem's put forward. Take a look at how fillibusters have skyrocketed since 2006. You're not the party of NO, that would be reasonable compared to what you actually are, i.e. the party of total and complete obstruction. You'd rather the country get nothing done at all (and at such an urgent time) rather than respect the will of the voters.

So if a state opts out, does its citizens still have to pay the higher taxes? If Massachusetts is such a success with their own state plan (it isn't, but play along)--will high earners in Boston be asked to pony up higher taxes to support, say, Hawaii's?

#8 | Posted by rightisright at 2009-10-09 06:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

Are you asking if us blue-staters are going to have to carry even more of the welfare (red) states?