so, who's getting one?

Live virus for a guy with MS who takes immune supressive drugs, count me out.

I have never gotten a flu shot in my life don't expect me to start any time soon.

alex jones.

I plan to as soon as they become available where I live. Better yet, who's not getting one?

Live virus for a guy with MS who takes immune supressive drugs, count me out.

Don't get flumist (the live vaccine). Get the shot, which is an inactivated virus vaccine.

I'll be taking it...already had cases of H1N1 at my university this year.

not. never have. only get something resembling the flu once every five to ten years. all the doctors i've spoken to about flu shots have stated they would only recommend them for the very young, the sickly or elderly which leaves lil ol me out!

How old are you Nanc?? If you are over 50 you might want to get it.

all the doctors i've spoken to about flu shots have stated they would only recommend them for the very young, the sickly or elderly which leaves lil ol me out!

#7 | Posted by nanc at 2009-10-07 11:49 AM |

Hmmm.... I figured the retards would be included.

Hmmm.... I figured the retards would be included.

Ever since the Smoking Man was put in charge of the Illuminati, he's been trying to thin out the herd... starting with the retards. So, if you're retarded, it would be best if you didn't get the vaccine.

Really, you shouldn't get it because it is laced with dog piss, stuff you don't know how to pronounce, and a whole lotta AIDS.

...like I said.

If only the Reptilians had come up with a way of more efficient method of eliminating dumbasses from the planet.

Maybe next time they'll flood the market with cheap cocaine and really cool looking flasks that double as switchblades and .22 caliber pistols.

#8 | Posted by jackass - i'm not getting it. the flu or the shot. thought you wanted me to die?

thought you wanted me to die?

#13 | Posted by nanc at 2009-10-07 12:33 PM

We do.

Someone needs to come back and tell us what Hell was like.

Someone needs to come back and tell us what Hell was like.

Posted by jerrytarkanian at 2009-10-07 12:36 PM |

I can tell you now; I'm from Miami.

#14 | Posted by jerrytarkanian - jackass' hemorrhoid weighs in.

I can tell you now; I'm from Miami.

#15 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-10-07 12:37 PM

So everyboby in Hell speaks Spanish and goes both ways?

Hear that nanc? You can call yourself "Dezi" in Hell.

#14 | Posted by jerrytarkanian - jackass' hemorrhoid weighs in.

#16 | Posted by nanc at 2009-10-07 12:37 PM

How "Turn the other cheek" like!

talk to the hand.

no

WHAT!?!?!

You mean nobody was dragged from their home, held down by soldiers, and then injected against their will?

I guess that's one more of the tea-bagger/birther paranoid fantasies blown out of the water.

In response to: "Someone should come back from hell and tell us what it was like."

Well,hell hasn't happened yet. It does not exist yet because, bsically you are still alive.
Soon it will happen, and then it will be over.
And it does not exist for eternity, that is false to make for more offereings for the churches.

. Hell happens at the end, after the second coming, and the world gets set on fire from lava and lightning and meteors,.

I don't understand what you mean by saying "What's it like?"

It's a world burning up, kind of hot, no one survives. That is hell.
2 Pet 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2 Pet 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2 Pet 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2 Pet 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2 Pet 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

You mean nobody was dragged from their home, held down by soldiers, and then injected against their will?

They were taken to FEMA camps afterward, so we don't know about them...

And Rhine... the DR is already at hot air capacity. Any more fundie-babble and the server will spontaneously combust.

here is a good approximation of what it will be like just BEFORE hell.

here is a good approximation of what it will be like just BEFORE hell.

Hell is nuclear warfare... yeah.

Hell is misery: unrelenting misery; without joy, hope, or dreams. Most people who post here are already there.

At precisely 6 miutes and 29 seconds you see a picture directly taken in simulation of impending hell.

#26 - kind of like that only for eternity separated from anything good. the word "asbestos" comes from the greek and means "unquenchable fire" - used in the n/t - as a parallel, imagine being a three in one comp shingle atop a house afire. forever. it is a place people choose to go in deferrence to God. you don't like God? you won't like heaven.

"three in one comp shingle" - of yesteryear!

Ah, hell. The christian stick to accompany the christian carrot.

Or, to those who don't believe... the christian shtick.

Eccl 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Eccl 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Death is unawareness.
the suffering comes just before the death.

See, once you die you can't communicate anymore, that is why people never know what happens at death.

Because they sleep, cease to be aware and cannot communicate.

Until the resurection.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Yeah, um, if you can't communicate after you die, how do you know "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished?"

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

The dead are staying dead as long as I have anything to say about it.

See, once you die you can't communicate anymore

There's nothing to be aware of, much less communicate. Your brain is done... no activity, no thought, no consciousness... nothing!

You are dead, after all.

Without God you live until you die, then the judgment then unawareness and nonexistance forever.

That is what pagans expect, they get just what they expect, God is really nice.
The pagans get their beliefs as expected and the christians do also

can't get any more fair than that.

Oba 1:16 For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down,[punishment for sins done] and then they shall be as though they had not been.

"
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

The dead are staying dead as long as I have anything to say about it.
"

LOL, you will unaware and therefore unable to say anything about it.

Without God you live until you die, then the judgment then unawareness and nonexistance forever.

Yes, doesn't Annubis throw your soul to be devoured by a crocodile or something?

You stole that bit from the Egyptians. And what you didn't steal from them, you stole from he Babylonians and Persians.

THERE TRULY IS A NIGHT OF THE RELIVING DEAD COMING!
It is in the Bible, and they come up with mangled rotten flesh and stink,
really

its in revelations.

Ezek 37:1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,
Ezek 37:2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.
Ezek 37:3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.
Ezek 37:4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
Ezek 37:5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
Ezek 37:6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Ezek 37:7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
Ezek 37:8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
Ezek 37:9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.

great book, ezekial

very interesting.

No stealing.

you have cause and effect reversed , as in evolution.

The persians stole from DANIEL AND EXEKIEL, you see, Daniel and Jeremiah wrote about these bones while Daniel was in captivity in Babylon.

so first rights of idea and printing go to the Bible
that means babylonian, egyptians and pagans are plagiarists.

LOL really

Talking to G-d = prayer
Hearing G-d talk back = schizophrenia
Doing what you hear G-d tell you to do = psychotic

Richardrhine,
On top of the fact your handle is fucking stupid, you type like BL2.
Choke yourself.

THERE TRULY IS A NIGHT OF THE RELIVING DEAD COMING!

I know, I've been saying it for years and all I've gotten is a few prescriptions for haldol.

Moses 5 books were written long before Babylon existed.

Bible is the oldest written record on these subjects. That is already understood. To call Bible writers plagiarists is easily disproved. Just call up oxford university and talk to them, they are 8 hours ahead of eastern time zone.

That is really a good idea to stock up on haldol
It will make hell MUCH EASIER.
Truly.

Moses 5 books were written long before Babylon existed.

Then why is Babylon in the 5 books of Moses if they didn't exist until later? You should stop telling people what you think your faith is and start learning about your faith.

I will bet gold will be worth less that phenothiazines.

I will bet gold will be worth less that phenothiazines.

Someone is familiar with antipsychotics... doesn't surprise me.

you have cause and effect reversed , as in evolution.

Babylon isnt mentioned in genesis, exodus levitcus numbers or duteronomy.

The tower of Babel was built then, but the cities of Babyon didn't exist till about the time of Moses in parallel timeline.

Abraham wa 600 years BEFORE Moses and egypt.
and Noah and shem were before ANY PAGAN AT ALL

right?

The pagans came from HAM who didnt even have kids yet and Noah knew all the commandments and the history of the world. Babyolon and egypt never existed until 500 years later.

copyright lawsuit found for Noah abraham and daniel.

Noah wins lawsuit on copyright violation pagans stole from abrahms family

Abraham wa 600 years BEFORE Moses and egypt.
and Noah and shem were before ANY PAGAN AT ALL

right?

Wrong. The Statues Abraham destroyed were pagan. The Golden Calf made in Exodus was pagan. The "others" Cain asked for protection from were pagan. Nice try though.

The tower of Babel was built then, but the cities of Babyon didn't exist till about the time of Moses in parallel timeline.

Parallel time line? The Bible as written by Gene Roddenberry?

and Noah and shem were before ANY PAGAN AT ALL

Or never even existed...

Abraham wa 600 years BEFORE Moses and egypt.
and Noah and shem were before ANY PAGAN AT ALL

LOL.

The pagans came from HAM who didnt even have kids yet and Noah knew all the commandments and the history of the world. Babyolon and egypt never existed until 500 years later.

Jesus Christ! So, when did the first "pagans" appear?

Parallel time line? The Bible as written by Gene Roddenberry?

You will worship Baal. Resistance is futile.

why dont you get a KJV and just read it through once? very good book and you'll learn what God is like.

You can read it through in 2 months 6 chapters a day in old and new testament.

very good.

You only have about two months and you will be way too busy to read after that I can see.
... perfect timing. Get started today

you can get a bible search proram on E-SWORD (googleit)

why dont you get a KJV and just read it through once? very good book and you'll learn what God is like.

Because the KJV is King James' Version of the Bible, not the word of G-d.

So, when did the first "pagans" appear?

What about Zoroastrians? Y'know, the ones you fundies love to rip off of and ignore.

I rate their funereal rights third coolest of all cultures... first place goes to the Fore of New Guinea, and second to the Vikings.

And I have read it, that is how I know you are wrong in what you say.

rites!

I love when people tell you to read the Bible. It means they haven't and are guessing/ hoping/ praying that G-d will change the wording to make them correct. It is like that guy who came to my door preaching Jesus a few years ago. When I asked him "doesn't that book say that you should not put on a show of your faith and when you pray, pray in private?" He didn't even pause before saying "no, it doesn't." When I showed him Matthew 6.5 in HIS BIBLE, he got huffy and stormed off. Not even a "G-d bless you" as he ran.

I learned long ago, when talking the Bible with Christians, it is important for one of us to know what it says, so I read it.

#56 | Posted by richardrhine at 2009-10-07 02:15 PM
***"why dont you get a KJV and just read it through once? very good book and you'll learn what God is like."

I love it when people profess to know what God is like...

If God is all knowing, created everything, is the past/future and has a plan for everyone of God's creations then God would have to, during creation, know whether or not you would accept Jesus as your personal savior. Therefore, because this reality is all God's creation, and all per God's plan and God knows everything (past and future) then it is an undeniable fact that God had to have knowingly created most humans with his expressed will, and within his own purpose to go to hell...

So, how can God be a loving God if he knowingly, willfully and purposefully created most of human kind to go to Hell???

Furthermore,

Prior to Adam and Eve eating the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil they were innocent and had no knowledge of good/evil, right/wrong; we know this because after eating the fruit they rushed to cover themselves before God because they were ashamed. Since Adam and Eve were without sin, innocent and could not possibly have understood the concept of good/evil, right/wrong; (we know that they could not have understood these concepts because the Bible clearly states that after the apple episode human kind was, from that point on, born into sin). How could Adam and Eve have known that it was a sin to disobey God? And, asking your creations to choose blindly between concepts that they could not possibly grasp is much like flipping a coin with the fate of, not only Adam and Eve, but the whole of God's human creation in the balance.

How can God be a loving God; wagering the eternal salvation/damnation of humankind on the flip of a coin?

oh yeah and,

Satan's actions prompted Adam and Eve to eat the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thereby infecting human kind with the understanding of the very concept of good/evil, right/wrong. Without this understanding humankind could have no real effective choice between good and evil.

If Satan's actions were responsible for bringing the understanding of the concept of good/evil to humankind through Adam and Eve wouldn't Satan, and not God, effectively given us the gift of free will?

Satan's actions prompted Adam and Eve to eat the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thereby infecting human kind with the understanding of the very concept of good/evil, right/wrong.

Some scholars feel it was actually the work of Lilith and not Satan. Lilith was created at the same time as Adam, but was replaced by a subservient Eve who was made from Adam instead of an equal.

"God does not play dice [with the
universe]". - Albert Einstein

-How could Adam and Eve have known that it was a sin to disobey God?

In the story, allegory as it may be, God tells Adam and Eve that they can eat of every fruit of every tree in the Garden but two, so they did know the rules.

And since one of the spiritual laws, much like physical laws, is "for sin (missing the mark) comes death", we have God causing an immediate form of death, separation from God, then the whole "kindred redeemer" exclusion that involves the death of the Christ in place of the sinners.

To me, it's kind of like all the outrageous death and destruction in the OT, sometimes of women and children, that some hold up as evidence of God's lack of love.

But in the texts it is a matter of perspective.

Paul said that be absent from the flesh was to be present with God, so, from God's perspective, he/she might consider that the child who was taken better off with him/her than in the world.

Just sayin'.

Wow. This is a swine flu thread? Early diversions, eh?

And, since God created Lucifer; the most beautiful angel, (once again God is: all knowing, created everything, is the past/future and has a plan for every one of his creations), how could God have been unaware that Lucifer would end up envying the glory of God, try to assume some of that glory for his self, be cast out of heaven into the depths of hell and become the Archangel Satan? And, how can God be a loving God when Lucifer could not have had any choice in the matter and God had to have created him with the expressed purpose of going to hell?

#65 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-10-07 03:01 PM
***"Some scholars feel it was actually the work of Lilith and not Satan. Lilith was created at the same time as Adam, but was replaced by a subservient Eve who was made from Adam instead of an equal"

No doubt. However, I was discussing the KJV as prescribed by RichardRhine so I could "know God"...

#66 | Posted by Corky at 2009-10-07 03:03 PM
***"In the story, allegory as it may be, God tells Adam and Eve that they can eat of every fruit of every tree in the Garden but two, so they did know the rules"

The Bible is a story now???

They did "know the rules". However, they could not have known that it was "evil" to disobey them, for they had absolutely no "knowledge of good/evil" until after they "ate of the tree". And, we all know this because they weren't ashamed of the nakedness before God until this point in the "story" as-well...

***"And since one of the spiritual laws, much like physical laws, is "for sin (missing the mark) comes death", we have God causing an immediate form of death, separation from God, then the whole "kindred redeemer" exclusion that involves the death of the Christ in place of the sinners"

This is wholey beside the point. If God CREATED EVERYTHING, and God is ALL KNOWING, and God CREATED EVERYTHING WITHIN HIS PURPOSE, then God must have known at the time of creation that most of his creations would sin, not repent and go to hell. And, since ALL OF THIS is God's CREATION, created WITHIN HIS OWN PURPOSE, then God had to have PURPOSEFULLY created most of human kind to go to Hell...

***"Paul said that be absent from the flesh was to be present with God, so, from God's perspective, he/she might consider that the child who was taken better off with him/her than in the world"

So, God in all his love leaves the rest of those children to suffer in the flesh???

I'm "just sayin"

#67 | Posted by Corky at 2009-10-07 03:05 PM
***"Wow. This is a swine flu thread? Early diversions, eh?"

RichardRhine got me started; I just love pompous so-called "Christians", sorry, for me, it's much like cat to cat-nip...

And, yes; quite an early and stark diversion...

As for the "Swine Flu", I don't like it one bit...

The problem with the King James version is that is it King James' version of the Bible. I can't understand how people don't notice the V in KJV. It was written specifically to give credence to the Monarchy as coming from G-d, an attempt to link King James to the bloodline of David, and a way to strengthen the state.

-They did "know the rules".

Yes. That they did not know the difference between good and evil does not mean they did not know the rules. Unlike what is, as you, er, most people, would have to admit is generally still the case, that in most instances, varying only in culture and disposition, we instinctively know, for the most part, the difference between good and evil in any given situation.

-God had to have PURPOSEFULLY created most of human kind to go to Hell...

Free will is a tricky bitch. Had God created man to be a robot, then yeah, he could have programmed in anything he wished, and you would have certainly bitched about that.

But free will requires choices between good and evil, and God's omnipotence is not your own.

God couldn't do anything to please you, however.

I mean, if you personally saw Jesus walking on water, you'd say it was because he couldn't swim.

Ever hear of the Shakespear connection in the KJV?

It is speculated that he helped write it. In the 43rd Psalm, the 43rd word from the beginning is "shake". The 43rd word from the end is "speare"

Cue twilight zone theme music

K

The KVJ was a particular translation of previously translated ancient texts by some of the top scholars at the time. King James was just the financier, and didn't give input to translation at all.

And it wasn't a bad translation for it's time, though kinda quirky in a Medieval sort of way.

The NKJV is a much better translation of the same material, btw, but most Evangels and such won't use it 'cause, "if the KJV was good enough for Moses, it's good enough for us!".

But Moses didn't read the KJV as he is a character in it and the things he did had to already be done to be included in the text.

Errata: Replace 43 with 46 in post #75

Sorry

lol, K

I know! That's the point. The quote is an old ridicule of fundie, "Christians".

=D

After richardrhine talked about parallel time lines in the Bible and such, I wasn' sure =D

I think it's odd that some people are open to infinite parallel universes...... as long as none of them contain a creator.

I think it's odd that some people are open to infinite parallel universes...... as long as none of them contain a creator.

Why?

I think it's odd that people think that god just suddenly popped into existense -- or even odder to think that he has been around forever.

Corky,
This is what he said when I said Babylon was in the Torah, so it could not have come afterwards.

Babylon isnt mentioned in genesis, exodus levitcus numbers or duteronomy.

The tower of Babel was built then, but the cities of Babyon didn't exist till about the time of Moses in parallel timeline.

-Babylon isnt mentioned in genesis, exodus levitcus numbers or duteronomy.

I don't recall whether that is true or not, though I remember the Tower story being there.

-The tower of Babel was built then, but the cities of Babylon didn't exist till about the time of Moses in parallel timeline.

Could be true, but I'm not sure of his use of, "Moses in parallel timeline", either.

According to the BBT, space/time did not exist one fraction of a second before it did exist.... along with every material needed to form the universe, but that there was a "singularity" that did exist prior to space/time.

But that's just math, eh?

But that's just math, eh?

I'll take math over blind faith any day.

#74 | Posted by Corky at 2009-10-07 03:42 PM
***"Yes. That they did not know the difference between good and evil does not mean they did not know the rules. Unlike what is, as you, er, most people, would have to admit is generally still the case, that in most instances, varying only in culture and disposition, we instinctively know, for the most part, the difference between good and evil in any given situation."
What are rules? An authoritative, prescribed direction for conduct.

And, knowing the rules doesn't equate to knowing that to disobey them is evil, which Adam and Eve could not have known prior to eating the Apple. So, the one rule God gave Adam was to not eat of the very thing that would have made him able to comprehend the concept that would have kept him from doing so...

***"Free will is a tricky bitch. Had God created man to be a robot, then yeah, he could have programmed in anything he wished, and you would have certainly bitched about that.

It's not a "tricky bitch". It's very simple. It's made complex by people trying to argue their way around it...

God didn't create "robots". However, he did purposefully create mankind, with the foreknowledge of what mankind would do within the confines of the reality God himself created for us. Therefore, God had to have purposefully created most of mankind, with the prior knowledge of, and intent for them to go to Hell...

***"But free will requires choices between good and evil, and God's omnipotence is not your own."

There can be no "free will" within the confines of reality that God created for us according to the Bible...

***"God couldn't do anything to please you, however."

And, how could you possibly know that? Judgmental much???

***"I mean, if you personally saw Jesus walking on water, you'd say it was because he couldn't swim."

No, I'd start by looking for the platform just beneath the surface...

There is logic to what Capt says.

IF G-d knows everything from the beginning of time to the end, free will or not, He knows the outcomes of what we do. If the majority of people on Earth are going to Hell (if the KJV is correct), then G-d made us destined to suffer.

-However, he did purposefully create mankind, with the foreknowledge of what mankind would do within the confines of the reality God himself created for us. Therefore, God had to have purposefully created most of mankind, with the prior knowledge of, and intent for them to go to Hell...

Did they offer you a substitute course when you failed logic?

"Through a glass darkly", isn't Lewis Carroll, it's Paul. It is what one might imagine the human perspective to be compared to the kind of God these texts describe.

But, we do get some hints in the text. In the old Hebrew, Genesis uses the usual word for "man", but it uses a different word for the creation, "ADM".

And God is described as, "we" and as "a spirit". If you look that up in your dictionary, you'll find that "spirit" is "the animating force", much like any force of physics.

From that you might determine, just possibly, that the God of the Bible is subject to it's own nature, spiritual laws, which are as "in force" as the law of physics.

I mean, if you were God and what you spoke happened, as in, "God spoke, and, literally, "not a thing" or nothing, became everything (as in the BBT, btw) then, if you are God, you have to REALLY watch what you say, eh?

#89 | Posted by Corky at 2009-10-07 04:33 PM | Reply
***"Did they offer you a substitute course when you failed logic?"

Please explain where my logic is flawed as opposed to just rhetorically saying that "it is"

***""Through a glass darkly", isn't Lewis Carroll, it's Paul. It is what one might imagine the human perspective to be compared to the kind of God these texts describe."

No, the text describes a very simple God, and to a very simple people. But, the Bible IS the word of God, and God is perfect, therefore his "Word" must also be perfect and true in every way; God says so right there in Bible. And, since it is the book that Religionists refer to so much, one would think that they would have a working grasp of the information (which is the only thing Christians have to base their relationship with their creator on) contained within

***"But, we do get some hints in the text. In the old Hebrew, Genesis uses the usual word for "man", but it uses a different word for the creation, "ADM"."

Old Hebrew, man was created as ADM; got it

***"And God is described as, "we" and as "a spirit". If you look that up in your dictionary, you'll find that "spirit" is "the animating force", much like any force of physics."

God is a spirit; got it

***"From that you might determine, just possibly, that the God of the Bible is subject to it's own nature, spiritual laws, which are as "in force" as the law of physics."

God is subject to NO laws, because God created EVERYTHING. Before God there was nothing; therefore God is only subject to the laws he would've placed on himself

***"I mean, if you were God and what you spoke happened, as in, "God spoke, and, literally, "not a thing" or nothing, became everything (as in the BBT, btw) then, if you are God, you have to REALLY watch what you say, eh?""

God is powerful, and must be wicked careful when wielding said power; got it

I'm not really following your logic as it pertains to this discussion. If we are changing subjects please let me know in advance

So I guess this means we have God to thank for the Swine Flu. I would say 'blame', but since it is for our own good, we should thank God, since only God could create a virus like this. Thank you God for making us sick and for killing the weak and the helpless.

-No, the text describes a very simple God,

Hardly. The texts describe an alien presence that is pure energy/light, foreign to anything we know. A creative presence that, according to the texts, a person would die if they looked at it full on.

In the texts, one man asks to see God, and is told that he might only see God's ass ( backside, hinder parts) in passing, as he would not survive the full view, and that man's face is so blistered from the experience, that he must wear a veil.

-Old Hebrew, man was created as ADM; got it

Missed it. ADM is a different creation from man, according to the texts.

-But, the Bible IS the word of God, and God is perfect, therefore his "Word" must also be perfect and true in every way

As I have often noted here, most fundie atheists only know what they think they know about the Bible from the fundie morons they see on TV.

#91 | Posted by Ray at 2009-10-08 09:38 AM | Reply | Flag: IN all his 10+ years doing an anti-Bible web site, somehow managed to missed the part about who runs the world we live in today

#92 | Posted by Corky at 2009-10-08 10:00 AM

So, then we ARE changing the subject?

Regardless of your deflections, the point remains; Biblically there is NO free will. And, Biblically God had to have created a vast majority of the human race to be damned to hell within his purpose.

You can't have it both ways:
- all knowing yet didn't know...
- creator of everything and everything created within his purpose yet not responsible for the outcome of his creations...

You can slice it up any way you like, but logically you can't avoid the facts as the Bible lays them out...

And, for your information, my dad was a preacher and I grew up regurgitating the Bible: breakfast lunch and dinner. I grew up in churches, and I have a better working knowledge of the Bible than most TV evangelists, and far better than your average so-called "Christians". I believe in God, and the Christian ideology

However, the God of hate and fear worshiped by the sheep of American Religion Inc. is about as far from Christ's ideological teaching as one can be; diametrically opposed I would say, a non-biased observer might even refer to it as Anti-Christian. And, I'll leave you to do the math for yourself on that one

- Biblically there is NO free will. And, Biblically God had to have created a vast majority of the human race to be damned to hell within his purpose.

When he told you this, was the voice in your head or was it audible?

If audible, seek help immediately!

-I believe in God, and the Christian ideology

Even after what you heard?

-However, the God of hate and fear worshiped by the sheep of American Religion Inc. is about as far from Christ's ideological teaching as one can be; diametrically opposed I would say, a non-biased observer might even refer to it as Anti-Christian.

Glad we agree on that.

#95 | Posted by Corky at 2009-10-08 01:53 PM

Please, (once again), feel free to point out where my logic fails, or my direct interpretation of the Bible is in error, as opposed to just slinging pointless mischaracterizations and rhetoric...

If you would rather not discuss this, there's nothing saying that you have to continue. But, please don't waste your time, or my time with pointlessness

And, I'm glad we agree on something; middle ground is a great place to anchor the tone of a conversation and can keep it from getting all muddled with the petty defensiveness that leads to character distortions and useless rhetoric...

The point is that if all that someone like Paul, who had his own in depth experience, can say about these mysteries of God is that we see through a glass darkly, His mysteries to behold, then I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree with him instead of someone who thinks he has all the answers, logical from our perspective or not.

If it's just that you are some sort of Calvinistic determinist, or in this case a predeterminist, then we just disagree.

Though how you could think God's creatures were made for the pit, and then still be a Christian, I don't grok at all.

The price was paid for the whole field, and the hope is that, "none should parish".

#97 | Posted by Corky at 2009-10-08 02:19 PM

Then (I think that you are saying) we can never truly know God? But, to love God is to know him, and to not know him is to be damned

I don't think I "have all the answers", but I think that I've surely delved into the questions a lot farther than most

And, I'm not looking to proselytize

I don't aspire to Calvinism, however the questions that it raised are valid, and to deny them is to shut ones eyes from the truth. And, God is the truth.

I don't think that God's creations were made for the pit; I said the Bible clearly states that God made many his creations to perish. And I asked you to explain otherwise and we ended up here: "We mortals can't understand the ways of God". Hey it's a better answer than: "God chooses not to know", or "God is partially omniscient".

Yeah, I know the story of Jesus and Calvary. Problem is God would have had to know at the time of creation those who would choose to be saved and those who would not. But, he chose to create all the ones that would be destine to perish anyway. And, this wouldn't be so bad if it weren't all his doing in the first place and done within his own divine plan.

So, disagree or not, the questions are valid. And, the response to these questions by anyone of faith points toward a larger problem in Christianity; the ostrich effect. Which is okay for the institution; tithes keep rolling in, but for the spiritual growth of the flock it does nothing but erode the foundation of Christianity to the point where we are today: the teachings of Christ pushed aside for the dogmatic agenda of the ones in power. This is exactly what Christ was fighting against when he was crucified

-we can never truly know God?

If Paul did not know God fully, here, then neither will we, here.

And if we did, where would be faith?

- I'm not looking to proselytize

Me neither. We have had those who made the DR a target, though... but I think they bit off more than they could chew, lol.

-the questions are valid

Yes, of course they are... but the logic is purely human, and, in a very human way and with a limited human perspective, seeks answers where even the questions are not well understood.

-the ostrich effect

A problem since day one, but people of faith need little in the way organized religion to keep Paul's advice to, "work out your own faith".

I have bashed modern pop culture "prosperity" junk "Christianity" on this site for years now, while trying to show that not all of us, or even most of us, belong to the Pharisaical hypocrite crowd.... or to the golly gee whiz dumbass redneck crowd.

My mentor had his PhD from Stanford, not Bob Jones, and the new pastor is a natural linguist who reads, speaks, and writes 2 dozen modern and ancient languages.

There are a few other non-conservative politically Christians here, like Zed or Grendel, who are much better, and more patient, at it than I.

#91 | Posted by Ray at 2009-10-08 09:38 AM | Reply | Flag: IN all his 10+ years doing an anti-Bible web site, somehow managed to missed the part about who runs the world we live in today
#93 | Posted by Corky

If it's Corky's god, he's been fucking up every day since the first day in Eden.

For your information, Mr Bible expert, in Christianity, any brand you like, the Prince of the Air rules the world today, which is why he was able to offer Jesus anything he wanted on earth to fall down and worship him.

You know, gold.... bomb shelters...

Your knowledge of these "myths" is.... meager, at best.

The Prince of Air is blowing in the wind. Is he the god of climate change?

which is why he was able to offer Jesus anything he wanted on earth to fall down and worship him.

If Jesus is the god you think, he already had everything, the devil included. That is if god is omnipotent.

Your knowledge of these "myths" is.... meager, at best.

Someday, Bible myth will take its place alongside pagan myth.

10 years wasted, and doesn't even know a critical Bible figure.

#103 | Posted by Corky

??? That's a classic case of changing the topic when the truth gets uncomfortable.

Through sufferage comes evolution, so we were made to suffer.