"considering how the Republicans have already proven it can be used to pass tax cuts or an attempt to permit oil drilling the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, I don't know how they can call it a dishonest practice now."

Hypocrisy isn't something that bothers them in the slightest. They will try to make a stink if the Dems use the process though if they ever gain the majority again they will use it again themselves.
After all, they are Republicans.

I don't think the Dems have the guts to pull it off.

"I once had a top health care executive tell me that creating a successful business is not hard, just have a product people want. Health care is the ultimate product.

Isn't it ironic the "successful business" enjoyed by healthcare is because we continue to live unhealthy lives? Is it really that hard to figure out? Or is it not politically correct to say Americans are fat, lazy and ignorant? That if we lead healthier lives we could reduce the profits?

Or is it not politically correct to say Americans are fat, lazy and ignorant? That if we lead healthier lives we could reduce the profits?

#3 | Posted by crispee_oc

You're not arguing that its easier to change human nature which leads to unhealthy behaviors than it is to change the way we provide healthcare as a people, are you?

Or is it not politically correct to say Americans are fat, lazy and ignorant? That if we lead healthier lives we could reduce the profits?

Sounds like Crispee is for the Republican's Don't-Get-Sick Plan. We all get sick and many of us for reasons that we have no control over.

You're not arguing that its easier to change human nature which leads to unhealthy behaviors than it is to change the way we provide healthcare as a people, are you?

#4 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-10-05 04:50 PM

Well... Yeah. I am. They should go hand in hand. Just like our approach to crime. If we reduce the crime rate, we can reduce the police depts. If we reduce the causes of illness' we reduce the cost to treat them. Isn't it odd nobody wants to compare the costs of insuring a healthy person who eats right and exercizes to someone who doesn't? We know the former lives longer lives, yet the latter is the opposite.

"Hypocrisy isn't something that bothers them in the slightest."
"After all, they are Republicans."
#1 | Posted by danni

That is a hypocritical statement in it's self coming from you.

Sounds like Crispee is for the Republican's Don't-Get-Sick Plan. We all get sick and many of us for reasons that we have no control over.

#5 | Posted by hope4hope at 2009-10-05 04:54 PM

Sounds like you believe it is ok to be fat and lazy. That you have no control over it. So what if some kid develops diabetes because their parents didn't give a shit.

Crispee answer this. What about the 4-year-old with leukemia?

Elections have consequences.

Someone needs to remind the FoxRepublicans of that.

Sorry Hope, but since Rush Limbaugh got behind the Fight Leukemia effort, I now cheer for Leukemia.

#9...
What about it? Is that some lame argument comparing the parents who allow their kids to risk diabetes or other future diseases, to parents unfortunate to have a child get leukemia?

Hypocrisy isn't something that bothers them in the slightest. They will try to make a stink if the Dems use the process though if they ever gain the majority again they will use it again themselves.
After all, they are Republicans.

#1 | Posted by danni at 2009-10-05 04:26 PM

Use it.

60 votes to stop a filibuster, then 51+ votes to pass Health Care Reform.

Hypocrisy isn't something that bothers them in the slightest. They will try to make a stink if the Dems use the process though if they ever gain the majority again they will use it again themselves.
After all, they are Republicans.

#1 | Posted by danni at 2009-10-05 04:26 PM

There's the old Danni and crystal ball routine I remember from the 2 Bush terms. How's the price of Zantax looking in 2014?

I am a Republican. Our party is out of power. For the life of me, however, I don't even understand the use of the term "nuclear option." When a party is in power, the President and the Congress should prosecute their agenda. If they have majorities, there is a reason, and they ought to do what they believe is in the best interests of the country and their constituencies.

Nuclear option? They should throw away that nomenclature. If the people don't like the agenda, these people can be tossed out of office when the time comes. But show some spine and vote for what you believe, not because you've picked up fall guys from the other side of the isle.

Republicans did the same pussy thing when they were in power. What the fuck ever happened to men and women of action?

bucha fucking hand-wringing bunch of wussies. Wussies = part wimps, part pussies.

It's funny how all the bed-wetters want to blame the repub's for the fact the health care "reform" can't/isn't/won't be(ing) passed.

Let see, by my math, they hold the Pres., they hold the Senate, they hold the House of Reps., and they can't get neough suppoprt from their own party to pass the biggest private sector take over yet?

Let's think about what the problem really is?!?

Oh yeah, it's a GARBAGE PLAN!!
STOP WAITING FOR THE GOV'T TO SUPPORT YOU CRADDLE TO GRAVE!! That's not what the gov't is for - fuckin' thick headed idiots!

Is this site having trouble?

It's funny how all the bed-wetters want to blame the repub's for the fact the health care "reform" can't/isn't/won't be(ing) passed.

Congress could be 100% democrat and a democrat president and the left would still blame the republicans for their inability to pass effective legislation. That's just the way they are.

"But for We The People it leads to poorer health outcomes and higher costs compared to other modern countries."

Once again the starting point to lowering costs now and in the future is waived away. Or called a red herring... As usual it is ignored by way of blaming someone or something. What happened to "An ounce of prevention, is worth a pound of cure"?

#23...
I must be psychic...

Well... Yeah. I am. They should go hand in hand. Just like our approach to crime. If we reduce the crime rate, we can reduce the police depts. If we reduce the causes of illness' we reduce the cost to treat them. Isn't it odd nobody wants to compare the costs of insuring a healthy person who eats right and exercizes to someone who doesn't? We know the former lives longer lives, yet the latter is the opposite.

A problem with our approach to health care is we have a hard time incentivizing the outcomes we seek. This is a natural by-product of our capitalist view of the process. Decisions are made on a profit/loss basis; healthy outcomes are only a secondary goal. The need to earn profit is what makes insurers game the system by refusing to cover "pre-existing conditions."

It is sound economic judgment for the insurance companies to find reasons to deny coverage and minimize the Medical Loss Ratio.

But for We The People it leads to poorer health outcomes and higher costs compared to other modern countries.

This is kinda funky.

Rcade, you got a bug.

#26 | Posted by hope4hope

One in the Server Farm and one up his ass.

Fuck you wisgod. (test)

With the lives of thousands of Americans at stake, the Democrats cannot afford to ignore this option.

Redickuless statement.

^.^

I agree!

"Use it.

60 votes to stop a filibuster, then 51+ votes to pass Health Care Reform."

And after that, the Dems and Liberalistas are done for about the next TWENTY years as a grassroots tidal wave sweeps them out of their majorities in Congress in 2010, and out of the White House in 2012, and the Dems will be damn lucky if we don't stop there.

Go ahead, DO IT! I dare you.

John B.

Redickuless statement.

#29 | Posted by slicksterWilly

How so? Millions of Americans have no health insurance. Reform will change that. Having health insurance gets you medical treatment like cancer screenings. That saves lives. No Reform. No change.

How so? Millions of Americans have no health insurance.

#31 | Posted by hope4hope

Si.

"What the fuck ever happened to men and women of action?"

Will wonders never cease. I agree with fuckin' Somoco.

And I don't know how many times this has to be said: There is no single plan on which people are voting. There are, I believe, now four bills circulating through various committees. As I understand it, they will need to be reconciled, revised, reread, etc. before actually being put to a vote. I'm sure someone with a firmer grasp of protocols than I can present it clearly.

If members of Congress vote poorly, misreading their constituents, then they should be voted out, eh? I am all for a house-cleaning in 2010. Open up the primaries to fresh candidates from both sides. See if we can get some change, not even necessarily in party but in personnel. Maybe there are people out there who more honestly reflect the populace.

But remember, someone is gonna be unhappy no matter what--and that someone could always be you.

But remember, someone is gonna be unhappy no matter what--and that someone could always be you.

#33 | Posted by pragmatist

Conservatives? I'd flag that as funny, but I considered who posted it it and doesn't know the definition of "majority".

Comments are out of order. Rcade, you got a bug.

#35 | Posted by hope4hope

Go check out the nooner, you simple fuck.

How often did the House use a nuclear option to pass bills for Bush in the last two years of his term?

Luckily the House was in Dem hands the last 2 years of Bush's presidency or God knows what more Bush could have fucked up.

"What about the 4-year-old with leukemia?"

The little bastard should have known Count Chocula would increase his cancer risk. Fuck him.

"How often did the House use a nuclear option to pass bills for Bush in the last two years of his term?"

The nuclear option is a term related to the Senate not the HOuse. It is a way to change the number of votes necessary to vote cloture. Filibuster is not a Constitutionally protected tactic so it can be changed and has been several times. Passing something through "roconciliation" is not "the nuclear option. Changing the rules of the Senate to reduce the number of votes necessary to pass a bill of cloture would be.

So far, the nervousness of Blue Dog Democrats and their ability to resist some of the wackier directives has been the only thing that has kept Obama from an outright failing grade, in my view. Perhaps, just as the Gingrich Congress rescued Bill Clinton, it may be these so-called Blue Dogs that rescue Obama. If not, it may be important for the survival of the union for government to be forever split between the parties!

The guy really is a Fabian Socialist in every sense of the term.

The only bright spot is that he truly is aloof and naive enough to believe his own bullshit---and is only reinforced by his exposure to a sycophantic media.

Obama truly is the first post-American president---but that's not going to fly for very long, sycophantic media or not. In fact, you're already starting to see the wheels fall of this little punk motherfucker's tricycle. Its just a matter of time for a center-right country like the United States.

You can't be a successful president of a nation you inherently despise.

The feeling is mutual, you little unqualified Marxist prick.

The spamming of the birthers. As long as eagles is a birther, nothing else he mimics can be taken a fact. He is nothing less then a tea party shill. Now you know why nobody takes them seriously anymore but other birthers.

"He is nothing less then a tea party shill."

The word "then" indicates a period of time in the past. The word I believe you are looking for is "than", although I am sure you were never taught the word, seeing your vocabulary is so limited.

The word I believe you are looking for is "than", although I am sure you were never taught the word, seeing your vocabulary is so limited.

Damn, a red pen in this man's hand may just be deadlier than a car antenna!

Damn, he does got bugs.

I am definitely not a 'birther'.

I thought Reconciliation was only to pass budget bills on pre existing laws?

Isn't this a health care bill and if so, no one should legally be able to fully pass health care reform through Reconciliation unless they will only pass the taxation and medicare cutting part of the bill? Why is this even a debate?

There would have to be two seperate bills passed through the senate and anyone voting on increased taxes through reconciliation will just be shooting their polical career in the foot.

The word "then" indicates a period of time in the past. The word I believe you are looking for is "than", although I am sure you were never taught the word, seeing your vocabulary is so limited.

I'm from Hawaii. I don't give a crap about grammar. So, sue me.

You on the other hand must resort to copy and paste as you obviously aren't intelligent enough to write that fast, in spite of you grammatical errors.

How many other sites have you spammed with your plagiarized rant since you chanced upon it?

I am definitely not a 'birther'.

What the fuck do you copy this crap for then? Just trolling ass wipe?

Comments are out of order. Rcade, you got a bug.

Woah! Lest I be accused of ignorance by the Eagles I best restate my position... What the fuck do you copy this crap for then? Just trolling with ass wipe?

From Eglet's Spam postage:

10. The appointment of 34 unvetted "czars" -- creating more than in the House of Romanov between 1762 and 1917!

Spud LOL'd anyways.

zOMFG!! Obama is a radical sushulist Marxist!!

Seriously?

Apparently that one has been attributed of "one of Bob Oster's CEO friends".

Spud LOL'd again.

On Topic?

Spud to Obama:

Nuke 'em.

Be Well.

I don't think the Dems have the guts to pull it off.

#2 | Posted by mysterytoy at 2009-10-05 04:33 PM

Well we do know that the Pubs didn't.

"But remember, someone is gonna be unhappy no matter what--and that someone could always be you.
#33 | Posted by pragmatist
Conservatives? I'd flag that as funny, but I considered who posted it it and doesn't know the definition of "majority"."

Huh? Does not compute.

My point was "you" to all people, not to folks on one side or the other. Someone, as in someone, anyone, will always be upset.

Thanks for the attack, Wis.

Eagles. What do you think should be done about our current health system? (If a cut-and-paste troll like you can type.)

Why not? If the people don't want it, we international socialists just do what we want on behalf of the people, since we're experts and know what they need better than they do......

Hope4hope! Change4change!

Brings a tear to my eye, lemme tell you. It's really very moving. I have a weird feeling crawling up my leg again.

yes please do

that way it will be forever open and when rpublicans are back in control the dems will have to pull some shit like the MASS legislature did on replacing teddy...

please use it....that way republicans can rectify obamas bankrupt policies a lot easier

AFKA. I agree. They should do this. We'll have the chance to see what the people think about the President's agenda. I think it'll ultimately be a big wake up call to the lefties on this site.

We'll have the chance to see what the people think about the President's agenda. I think it'll ultimately be a big wake up call to the lefties on this site.

Just like Medicare, a public plan would become hugely popular. Americans would feel the freedom that comes with affordable, readily accessible health care. Quitting a job to take a chance on a better opportunity becomes easier. U.S. businesses will be more competitive on the international stage where government-run health care is the norm. And small businesses will be able to compete for talent with their larger competitors when it comes to offering benefits.

So, yes, we should do this.

The intent as stated was primarily to insure the 47 million without insurance. Of those 47 million, 12 million are illegals (no insurance needed since they can be deported); 10 million are people who can afford insurance but choose not to buy it; and probably another 10 million are people who already qualify for Medicaid and Medicare but don't get it.

So say we're left with 25 million who need insurance. For the money we're planning to spend, we could get them each a very nice gold-plated policy with BCBS and be done with it.

Oh, but then Pelosi and Reid and various Friends of Obama couldn't get their piece of the action.

Nevermind.

Sorry Hope, but since Rush Limbaugh got behind the Fight Leukemia effort, I now cheer for Leukemia.

#11 | Posted by Manypaths

That figures.

The spamming of the birthers. As long as eagles is a birther, nothing else he mimics can be taken a fact.

#47 | Posted by RingMaster

And just how do you arrive at that conclusion? Because someone believes one certain thing that means that every thing they say is incorrect or a lie? That makes absolutely no sense what so ever and it leads me to believe that you are the one who can not be trusted with what they say.

#3 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-10-05 04:42 PM
***"Isn't it ironic the "successful business" enjoyed by healthcare is because we continue to live unhealthy lives? Is it really that hard to figure out? Or is it not politically correct to say Americans are fat, lazy and ignorant? That if we lead healthier lives we could reduce the profits?"

Yeah, and she was wearing a short skirt too...

Jag-off

#66 | Posted by PublicTrough For the money we're planning to spend, we could get them each a very nice gold-plated policy with BCBS and be done with it.

Excluding pre-existing conditions.

Oh, but then Pelosi and Reid and various Friends of Obama couldn't get their piece of the action.

What action?

And just how do you arrive at that conclusion? Because someone believes one certain thing that means that every thing they say is incorrect or a lie?

Observation, education and common sense.

That makes absolutely no sense what so ever and it leads me to believe that you are the one who can not be trusted with what they say.

I'm truly hurt and humbled. Wait, let me wipe the tears from my eyes...
...Ok, now that's better.

Now, who besides you really gives a shit what I think?

#62 | Posted by rightisright at 2009-10-06 09:02 AM
***"Brings a tear to my eye, lemme tell you. It's really very moving. I have a weird feeling crawling up my leg again."

Hey RIR, that's probably diabetes; you should have that checked out!!!

Yeah, and she was wearing a short skirt too...

Jag-off

#70 | Posted by Capt_Of_Uranus at 2009-10-06 01:30 PM

Were you trying to mutter something? I didn't see a rebuttal to the post. Not that you would be stupid enough to argue it, would you Anus?

Hey RIR, that's probably diabetes; you should have that checked out!!!

LOL, my guess was delusional mitochondrial myopathy caused by too much red meat and not enough yellow dog.

Hey RIR, that's probably diabetes;

Could be reverse mysotisis?

#74 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-10-06 01:41 PM
***"Were you trying to mutter something? I didn't see a rebuttal to the post. Not that you would be stupid enough to argue it, would you Anus?"

Well, I thought that my remark, though poignant, would be more than straightforward enough, but I was obviously mistaken...

To blame the patients who rely on the healthcare system for its systemic failure, while the insurance cartels make record profits by relieving their insured of coverage the moment they get sick, and gouging Americans through an oligopolistic stranglehold on premiums and coverage, is by definition: blaming the victim. So, the "mutterance", "and she was wearing a short skirt too" now comes full circle

Glad I could be of assistance, and don't hesitate to request my help while maneuvering the intricacies of any of my future prose as-well ;~}

To blame the patients who rely on the healthcare system for its systemic failure, while the insurance cartels make record profits by relieving their insured of coverage the moment they get sick, and gouging Americans through an oligopolistic stranglehold on premiums and coverage, is by definition: blaming the victim. So, the "mutterance", "and she was wearing a short skirt too" now comes full circle

Glad I could be of assistance, and don't hesitate to request my help while maneuvering the intricacies of any of my future prose as-well ;~}
#77 | Posted by Capt_Of_Uranus at 2009-10-06 02:59 PM |

Gee how did I miss that from "yeah and she was wearing short skirt too"... Obviously my fault.

Funny how my post had nothing to do with one sentence in your so called retort. Maybe if you read it one more time, you may have a different comeback, other than your worn out, useless talking points.

As for your needing assistance... My post was pretty clear, and reaked of common sense. Which is why it is usually ignored by fools like you, and the response if any, is similar.

My post was pretty clear, and reaked of common sense.

It's common sense to want a health system that works in such a way that it blames the sick for their illnesses?

"My post was pretty clear, and reaked .......
Posted by hope4hope "

Take a peak....geaks reak....eak!

#78 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-10-06 03:31 PM
***"Gee how did I miss that from "yeah and she was wearing short skirt too"... Obviously my fault."

Since the phrase, "she was wearing a short skirt" is synonymous with blaming the victim in rape trials, I thought that it was appropriate, seeing as Americans are being gang-raped by the insurance oligopolies, and your response to this is, "Americans are unhealthy". Why does a person buy "health insurance"? Ding, ding, ding: they are unhealthy...

And, you are correct; "obviously your fault", we agree; see there is middle ground! We've made progress already!!!

***Funny how my post had nothing to do with one sentence in your so called retort."

Uh... I think you're reading the wrong post...

***"Maybe if you read it one more time, you may have a different comeback, other than your worn out, useless talking points."

Let's take this slowly-
***"Isn't it ironic the "successful business" enjoyed by healthcare is because we continue to live unhealthy lives? Is it really that hard to figure out?"

PARAPHRASING: It's sadly funny how the massive and unethical profits made by healthcare insurance providers are due to our society's unhealthy lifestyle choices. Simple really

***"Or is it not politically correct to say Americans are fat, lazy and ignorant?"

PARAPHRASING: Could it be politically incorrect to say that Americans are to blame due to this...

***"That if we lead healthier lives we could reduce the profits?"

PARAPHRASING: Americans could reduce the massive and unethical profits made by medical insurers if they just had healthier lifestyles and made better choices...

Though I can agree that Americans living a healthier lifestyle would be a good thing, and obviously reduce healthcare costs as-well-as vicariously reducing insurance cartel profits, this really isn't the issue...

The issue is the catastrophic debacle in healthcare. This debacle is due (in large part) to corrupt insurance practices, (as stated clearly in my previous post)...

I would be glad to dissect my previous response for you line by line if you think it will help you to understand the meaning of it, and how it is applicable to the statements contained in your previous post...

Just let me know...

You're using talking points.

No, you're using talking points!

+++++

#81...
That was pretty clear. Even for me.

Maybe the post was poorly written. I meant to say how hard is it to figue out living healthier lives will reduce the profits of those who benefit. I wasn't blaming the victim per say, I was blaming the ignorance of society to this obvious fact. Yet for some reason it is never mentioned by anyone who supports or writes this HC Reform.

#83 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-10-06 05:03 PM

I will have to totally agree with you on this. I think that the new healthcare legislation should have some form of mechanism to entice a healthier lifestyle from its users. Unfortunately any attempt to address this will be reduced to bickering about socialism and freedom, some arguments from both sides will obviously be on-point. However,the discussion will devolve from any attempt to make progress, to a frustrating sound-bite hurling match (thoughts of chimpanzees hucking feces comes to mind). But, as always, America will somehow muddle through...

"Unfortunately any attempt to address this will be reduced to bickering about socialism and freedom"

Bingo! The cult of the individual in America.

Demos will have to use the Nuclear Option to pass a government option. It will be reversed when the next administration comes in. The american people will exact a clear and definitive reversal of the use of the nuclear option. If healthcare is passed with a government option you can count on a conservative revolution that will kick out many of the demos that pretend to be conservative. The statists and socialists want government in our healthcare and lives. Taxing and spending us to death.

#41 | Posted by eagles at 2009-10-05 10:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Shit heap, layoff the crack pipe.

I don't know where to start with your bullshit.

He never held a job in the private sector?

He worked for a law firm and was college professor.

Let me guess.......he's not really an American too?

You loons are great to have around.

MTNEWC...Anyone that pretends to predict the future is suspect from the start. We all do it, but the smart folks tend to view all predictions with a healthy degree of skepticism.

If health care is passed with a government option you can count on a lot of people being very pleased for the first time in their lives and lot more suddenly discovering that competition from the government lowered their insurance rates and at the same time improved their benefits. The private insurance companies aren't just going to roll up the rugs and move to China. There is too much money in the hands of the rich, right here in America.

#68 | Posted by everlong

...Grayson continued insulting them, calling them "knuckle-dragging Neanderthals" and "hypocrites."

"Demos will have to use the Nuclear Option to pass a government option. It will be reversed when the next administration comes in."

Sure it will, right after they get done privatizing Social Security.
I wish the Republicans would be crazy enough to try something like that, it would finally drive the stake through the heart of that party.

"I once had a top health care executive tell me that creating a successful business is not hard, just have a product people want. Health care is the ultimate product.
Isn't it ironic the "successful business" enjoyed by healthcare is because we continue to live unhealthy lives? Is it really that hard to figure out? Or is it not politically correct to say Americans are fat, lazy and ignorant? That if we lead healthier lives we could reduce the profits?

#3 | POSTED BY CRISPEE_OC AT 2009-10-05 04:42 PM |

How about people injured in traffic and work related accidents son?

Or children born with challenges?

Or OLD people's flagging health due to age?

Are those their fault too? Ya know, you are gonna get old too....LOL.

I find thinking of the healthcare of Americans as simply a PRODUCT to make a PROFIT from repulsive.

And I believe our constitution allows us to collectively bargain (form a more perfect UNION) for healthcare (promote the general WELFARE, insure domestic TRANQUILLITY and promote JUSTICE) is the right thing to do. ALL other industrialized countries do so EXCEPT the USA. Why should we pay 11 times more for drugs than countries who have a public option do?

I believe healthcare, education and national security are too important NECESSITIES to be left at the whim of PROFITEERS.

Demos will have to use the Nuclear Option to pass a government option. It will be reversed when the next administration comes in. The american people will exact a clear and definitive reversal of the use of the nuclear option. If healthcare is passed with a government option you can count on a conservative revolution that will kick out many of the demos that pretend to be conservative. The statists and socialists want government in our healthcare and lives. Taxing and spending us to death.

#86 | POSTED BY MTNEWC19 AT 2009-10-06 08:48 PM

Like when Bush43 reformed/ended Social Security, eh?

LOL

or like when the Contract ON American congress along with a repug scotus and potus ended MEDICARE, MEDICAID AND THE VA?

Oh, that's right, they didn't END them, they tried to PRIVATIZE them for their owner/operator's profits....eh?

And the disasters of Walter Reed and Medicare part D were the result....

poor crispee thinks all illnesses and diseases are caused by lifestyle choices....eh?

Like being GLB, eh?

LMFAO

#63 | POSTED BY AFKABL2 AT 2009-10-06 10:16 AM

So, you don't believe the people of Mass should be represented in the senate because one of their senators died? And the one that died worked his lifelong for healthcare reform, so appointing his aide is wrong?

LOL

yet, you say nothing about bush43 who garnered half a million LESS votes than gore, pretending he had a MANDATE and using the nuclear option 4 times.....

LOL

"I find thinking of the healthcare of Americans as simply a PRODUCT to make a PROFIT from repulsive."

We live in a society, not an economy, but our choices have led us to become ever more isolated from one another and we lose sight of that I think.

Woke is the BL2 of the left. Does anyone read his shit?

EAGLES

Feel free to post the unemployment stats for the last 8 years and note the type of jobs that were "created" and compare them to the one's lost.

Yeah, it's all Obama's fault....I mean, he's been in office now for 8 months, why hasn't he FIXED all the neocon FAILURES of the last 8 yrs, eh>?

LOL

and btw EAGLES,

I don't mind using cut and pastes to support my pov....however, i usually try to use factual, credible sources rather than opinion blogs AND i always try to include a LINK to that source....

Ever hear of plagarism? Or is that anti tax blogsite your own?

Danni,

If the Dems resort to the nuclear option in order to pass Obamacare; an initiative that 'enjoys' 40% support according to Gallup, then they do so at their own peril.

The public is pissed over TARP, which had 2-party support.

The public is pissed over the stimulus bill, which is ALL Dem.

The public is even more pissed that capntax made its way through the house.

The public is beyond pissed (fairly or not) over the Dems health bill.

The Dems have royally screwed the pooch on this issue. They had a genuine opportunity and promptly squandered it.

Let's compare and contrast their approach with the GOP approach toward SS reform...

The GOP accurately and respectfully diagnosed the problem - they were and still are absolutely correct. However, their solution, implemented at this late stage of the game, would have made the impending shortfall even worse. They had a nice solution IF proposed 25 years earlier. On the current scale, they would have greatly exacerbated a problem they correctly diagnosed.

Now, let's compare that with the 'salesmanship' exhibited by the Dems regarding healthcare.

Let's see...anybody who opposes a massive expansion of the federal government on this issue is:

*a teabagger
*Un American
*an Evil-mongerer
*etc

The Dems have been absolute dicks about this and have pissed off a majority of this country that doesn't take kindly to being condescended to.

Obama wants to drastically cut Mediacare benies?

Good. It must happen. In fact, some astute conservatives (yes, they are rare) correctly pointed out during the SS debate that Medicare was a far bigger looming problem than was SS.

Obama's problem lies in his...well....lies. Cutting $500 Billion from Medicare WILL result in a reduction of benefits. Instead of being honest about it, he prefers to peddle snake oil.

The public isn't buying it and is bristling in response to his bullshit.

If the Dems resort to the nuclear option in order to pass Obamacare; ...... then they do so at their own peril.
#99 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2009-10-07 08:55 AM

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but for predecessors as well." George W. Bush

LMFAO

Same old bs from the same old right wing posters...

:"obama lies, obama lies, obama lies...:

yet, they can NEVER actually post any credible sources to their bs.....

Wonder where they get all that misinformation from?

-Cutting $500 Billion from Medicare WILL result in a reduction of benefits. Instead of being honest about it, he prefers to peddle snake oil.

Those are subsidies to insurers who give no better service for the extra money.

-The public isn't buying it and is bristling in response to his bullshit

'Taint true now, Heffy.

"The GOP accurately and respectfully diagnosed the problem - they were and still are absolutely correct."

What a giant pile of crap. Bush finally admitted his privatization plan wouldn't even address the fundamental underlying problems.

#102 | Posted by Corky

So, you are telling me that fraud and waste has been rampant within Medicare for over 30 years, but the Obama administration is going to wave a magic-wand and suddenly clamp-down on this shit???

Why don't we stand back and watch them do so before granting them even more spending powers vis a vis a "public option" first.

Going further, do you honestly believe that your 'enlightened' Democrats will be in power forever? Can you even imagine what a kooky evangelical GOP would do with the powers you've given to our federal government?

#103 | Posted by Danforth

No shit.

What do we do?

I think massive benie cuts coupled with tax increases is the only way to maintain the program.

While I think SS has proven to be a good program, at the end of the day it's a fricking Ponzi Scheme.

Coupled with Medicare it may very well bankrupt this country. When the Boomers are thoroughly removed from the workforce it will happen - it can't be avoided.

"Can you even imagine what a kooky evangelical GOP would do with the powers you've given to our federal government?"

Um...try to pass a Constitutional Amendment permanently codifying one group of Americans as second-class citizens???

Um...try to pass a Constitutional Amendment permanently codifying one group of Americans as second-class citizens???

It was within a vote or two of passing.

You are proving my point.

"What do we do?"

Get to a pay-as-you-go system, over several generations.

And yes, I realize that's the most sensible, and therefore the least likely....

No, I'm telling you that the over 1/2 a billion in subsidies that the Bushites voted to give the insurers for Medicare Advantage turned out, quell surprise, to be a boondoggle for the insurers and added nada to Medicare benefits.

-the powers you've given to our federal government?

People power written into law is not disadvantageous.... this has nothing to do with executive power.

And the CBO is the one scoring the financial effects of this bill, a bill that does not add to the deficit as did GW's tax cuts to the wealthy and Iraq war, thank yo ever so much.

"It was within a vote or two of passing."

No...it wasn't.

The Right Wingers hate providing tax dollars for things that help people but they sure don't have a fucking problem with tax dollars going towards things that kill people. How fucked up they are.

Larry

"And the CBO is the one scoring the financial effects of this bill, a bill that does not add to the deficit...'

Is this some magic bill? Did they buy it from the guy who sold Jack the beans? Two and half months ago it was at a trillion dollars. Somehow they shaved off over a $100 billion a week?

July 2009
Talks in the Senate broke late yesterday, with plans to resume next week. Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.) said the group is considering about a dozen options to cover the estimated $1 trillion cost of its package, including reductions in Medicare spending and additional tax increases.

Fuck off, Larry.

The proven fact is that 'rightwingers' contribute FAR more to charity in every sense - be it per capita dollars and/or donated time than do liberals.

When it comes to putting up or shutting up, conservatives rule the roost.

Eat shit if that fucks up your little narrative.

The proven fact is that 'rightwingers' contribute FAR more to charity in every sense - be it per capita dollars and/or donated time than do liberals.

When it comes to putting up or shutting up, conservatives rule the roost.

Eat shit if that fucks up your little narrative.

Posted by JeffJ at 2009-10-07 09:41 AM | Reply

Funny how the Conservatives like to brag on their charitable contributions while Liberals just give in secret. Amazing how that fucking works out isn't it Jeffj???????????

Larry

"The proven fact is that 'rightwingers' contribute FAR more to charity in every sense"

Even after subtracting for meth, gay hookers, and paying off the victims of molestation?

And does that include or not include monies spent trying to keep gays from having full and equal rights?

- Two and half months ago it was at a trillion dollars. Somehow they shaved off over a $100 billion a week?

Using Vernon's calculator.... and his calender.

Trouble is You know My statement is the truth. How many G-d damned times did You Gush and Gush over the Raptors(That fighting airplane) You sounded like You was having orgasms over them. They take Taxpayer dollars. Oh and You supported the Iraq War which will cost over 3 TRILLION Dollars. You seemed to gush over THAT one too. Yet You have a problem with a Governmental backed funded Health Care Insurance option???? That is t totally fucked up JeffJ and You know it. You would rather spend tax dollars on things that kill people than to spend money on things that HEAL people well thats fucked up big time JeffJ. Piss poor attiotudinal problems the Right Wingers suffer.

Larry

""The proven fact is that 'rightwingers' contribute FAR more to charity in every sense""

It's called protection money. They only do it so they can be selfish assholes when it comes to taxes and yet feel good about themselves by handing out crumbs personally.

When it comes to putting up or shutting up, conservatives rule the roost.

Eat shit if that fucks up your little narrative.

#113 | Posted by JeffJ at 2009-10-07 09:41 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
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Oh and if that is the case why did Dubya and Cheney chickenshit their way out of vietnam and a wussy Limp Wristed John Kerry go into Vietnam. Why even Al Gore stepped foot into Vietnam WHILE THE FIGHTING WAS GOING ON. While Your Boys Dubya and Cheney had other things to do. Yeah some Conservative Putting Up they do (ROLLS EYES)

Larry

It's called protection money. They only do it so they can be selfish assholes when it comes to taxes and yet feel good about themselves by handing out crumbs personally.

#118 | Posted by nullifidian

Uh huh.

How much do you personally contribute?

Let me guess - Zero.

You are a collossal jerk for belittling the efforts of those who personally-invest both financially AND who spare personal time toward addressing strife.

What do you do?

Smoke a bowl and advocate the pilferage of funds from any other source other than what you earn?

The fact that you so openly mock private charity speaks volumes.

You are a funny guy who feels it's your perogative as to how best spend money in order to assist the less-fortunate. What is sad is that you feel you should control other peoples' money while, at the same time, mocking said individuals for having the audacity rfor allocating their charity in a manner inconsistent with your priorities.

Larry,

If you can prove me wrong, then go for it...

"You are a collossal jerk for belittling the efforts of those who personally-invest both financially AND who spare personal time toward addressing strife."

You're an rtard leech who wants trillion dollar wars and trillion dollar tax cuts at the same time. Not that you're the only one. Most Republicans are leeches and welfare queens these days.

"How much do you personally contribute?"

I pay taxes asshole, and I don't whine about it, and I'm happy to pay more.

The fact that you so openly mock private charity speaks volumes.

You are a funny guy who feels it's your perogative as to how best spend money in order to assist the less-fortunate. What is sad is that you feel you should control other peoples' money while, at the same time, mocking said individuals for having the audacity rfor allocating their charity in a manner inconsistent with your priorities.

Posted by JeffJ at 2009-10-07 10:05 AM | Reply

Herein lies the rub. It's not private charity if one broadcasts it. It's not private charity if someone reports it. It's not private charity if someone uses it as a so called leverage point.

Larry

Funny how the Conservatives like to brag on their charitable contributions while Liberals just give in secret. Amazing how that fucking works out isn't it Jeffj???????????

Larry

What is funny is your spamming of the rights bragging about their donations. I think the other favorite lie by you is they only do it for the deductions. How about a new schtick Larry?

Republicans give money to charity so they can feel good about themselves after voting themselves a trillion dollar tax cut by electing some asshole like Bush.

"It's not private charity if one broadcasts it. "

Broadcasting it is the point.

Oh and if that is the case why did Dubya and Cheney chickenshit their way out of vietnam and a wussy Limp Wristed John Kerry go into Vietnam. Why even Al Gore stepped foot into Vietnam WHILE THE FIGHTING WAS GOING ON. While Your Boys Dubya and Cheney had other things to do. Yeah some Conservative Putting Up they do (ROLLS EYES)

Amazing how Larry reacts to the word "Conservative"... His brain goes into overdrive and he can't think of anything to write other than Bush and Cheney this and Bush and Cheney that. Is his mind programmed to ignore anything before Jan. 2001? Is he Sleepy Hollow minus 12 years?

What is funny is your spamming of the rights bragging about their donations. I think the other favorite lie by you is they only do it for the deductions. How about a new schtick Larry?

Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-10-07 10:13 AM | Reply

Hey it wasn't Me who brought up the Charitable Donations. THAT would be JeffJ NOT I.

Larry

"Republicans give money to charity so they can feel good about themselves after voting themselves a trillion dollar tax cut by electing some asshole like Bush.'

Then how does one explain the charitable donations by repubs before Bush and the tax cuts? There actually was a world before Bush was elected.

pay taxes asshole, and I don't whine about it, and I'm happy to pay more.

#122 | Posted by nullifidian

Bullshit. If 2010 and 2012 results in a massive change in how the treasury was spent you'd be bitching up a storm.

Funny how the Conservatives like to brag on their charitable contributions while Liberals just give in secret. Amazing how that fucking works out isn't it Jeffj???????????

If you have some source that substantiates your bullshit then please provide it. OPtherwise you are full of shit. Do you realize that the author of said study anticipated the exact opposite regarding 'true' sacrifice?

Amazing how Larry reacts to the word "Conservative"... His brain goes into overdrive and he can't think of anything to write other than Bush and Cheney this and Bush and Cheney that. Is his mind programmed to ignore anything before Jan. 2001? Is he Sleepy Hollow minus 12 years?

Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-10-07 10:18 AM | Reply

Nor waqs it I who brought up the notion that Conservatives put up. That would be JeffJ again NOT I.

Larry

If you have some source that substantiates your bullshit then please provide it. OPtherwise you are full of shit. Do you realize that the author of said study anticipated the exact opposite regarding 'true' sacrifice?

#130 | Posted by JeffJ at 2009-10-07 10:21 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
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Do You realize by speaking about ones charitiable donations takes away their value. Read matthew Chapter 6 versis 1 through 4 sometime JeffJ. That might clue You in on why many people do not say they give.

Larry

Hey it wasn't Me who brought up the Charitable Donations. THAT would be JeffJ NOT I.
#128 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2009-10-07 10:18 AM

Does it really matter Larry? Does it change the fact you post the same crap when you see or write the word "charity"? You are like a broken record.

What is even more laughable is the other clowns who add lib when you post your tripe. Regardless of any bearing to the thread or previous posts.

"Then how does one explain the charitable donations by repubs before Bush and the tax cuts?"

It's a permanent excuse for Republicans. "We give to charity, so take seriously our incessant whining about "high taxes"."

Nor waqs it I who brought up the notion that Conservatives put up. That would be JeffJ again NOT I.

Larry

So of all the things conservative, the onlky comeback you have is Bush and Cheney? Are you really this full of shit Larry? Or are you pretending?

" the author of said study anticipated the exact opposite regarding 'true' sacrifice"

Well, if he was counting tithes to churches, he's an idiot. But then again, I wouldn't call giving money to an organization that needs it because it shuffled pedophiles from one parish to another 'charity' in the first place. Nor would I consider it charity if an organization uses its monies to deny certain people rights, or others the truth.

Nor waqs it I who brought up the notion that Conservatives put up. That would be JeffJ again NOT I.

Larry

BTW.. I believe he was speaking of conservatives put up in regards to CHARITY. Yet somehow you missed that and went for the Bush Cheney retort? Too funny.

BTW.. I believe he was speaking of conservatives put up in regards to CHARITY. Yet somehow you missed that and went for the Bush Cheney retort? Too funny.

Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-10-07 10:29 AM | Reply

I would think risking ones own life for their country a charitable donation don't You Crispee?? Or do You not understand that one.

Larry

- Two and half months ago it was at a trillion dollars. Somehow they shaved off over a $100 billion a week?

Using Vernon's calculator.... and his calender.

#116 | Posted by Corky at 2009-10-07 09:44 AM

I can only assume you have a magic calculator that removes a trillion dollars the HV bill? You ignorantly claim it won't increase the deficit. I post the CBO's numbers from July proving as usual, you are full of shit. Where is your link showing the bill disputing the CBO's last report?

HV bill...
HC bill

I would think risking ones own life for their country a charitable donation don't You Crispee?? Or do You not understand that one.

Larry

How does that fit in to your stupid theory repubs only give to charity for the tax deduction? Did you forget that Wile E. Coyote Super Genius moment?

The CBO analysis of the Sen Fin Bill will be out this afternoon.

Of course, it would be 110 billion less cost, per the CBO, if it had a public option.

It's a permanent excuse for Republicans. "We give to charity, so take seriously our incessant whining about "high taxes"."

#134 | Posted by nullifidian

Actually, it's a permanent pox on progressives.

You assholes are great when it comes to allocating the monies earned by others.

What wealth do you create on your own accord?

I don't expect an answer because you tools are incapalbe of providing such.

How does that fit in to your stupid theory repubs only give to charity for the tax deduction? Did you forget that Wile E. Coyote Super Genius moment?

Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-10-07 10:37 AM | Reply

You should have been here when the talk was going around that Obama would cut the tax deductions for giving to Charities. Many of Your right winged brethern declared it would curtail conservatives from giving. Hell even JeffJ penned the comment to Hans Are You channelling Larry when Hans brought it up. Wished like hell RCADE hadn';t screwed this place up when He took down those date files I could much easily go back to show You.
Larry

I don't expect an answer because you tools are incapalbe of providing such.

#143 | Posted by JeffJ

At least I'm not a tax-avoiding leech, like the typical Republican. Pay your fucking bills for trillion dollar wars you like and stop whining.

The CBO analysis of the Sen Fin Bill will be out this afternoon.

Of course, it would be 110 billion less cost, per the CBO, if it had a public option.
#142 | Posted by Corky at 2009-10-07 10:38 AM

What was the last number they reported? Or does that not matter because we are cutting $110 billion? You are a fucking riot Corky.

"Well, if he was counting tithes to churches, he's an idiot. But then again, I wouldn't call giving money to an organization that needs it because it shuffled pedophiles from one parish to another 'charity' in the first place. Nor would I consider it charity if an organization uses its monies to deny certain people rights, or others the truth." - Danforth

You start with an illogical assumption, then using that jump on a diatribe of bibilical proportions.

Authur Brooks was the researcher...
Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservatism

#144..

Another load of bull Larry. Your ridiculous rants today and before were a blanket statement of all repubs. The hole you dug is too deep to get out of Larry. Try another shovel that puts dirt back in.

An informed riot, at least. Comparatively speaking.

Another load of bull Larry. Your ridiculous rants today and before were a blanket statement of all repubs. The hole you dug is too deep to get out of Larry. Try another shovel that puts dirt back in.

#148 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2009-10-07 10:51 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
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It's the God damned truth Crispee and You know it. It was there plain as day to see. When Obama was talking about eliminating the tax deductions for charitable contributions many on the right winged scoffed at that and declared it would reduce charitable donations. It's not rocket science Crispee.

Larry

"You start with an illogical assumption, then using that jump on a diatribe of bibilical proportions."

I told the truth.

Money given as "charity" to the Catholic Church was used to pay off the victims of molestation. The RCC also tells their followers in the most AIDS-ravaged area of the world not to use condoms, that the HIV virus can pass through the condom walls.

Money given as "charity" to some Jewish groups is used to buy up new settlements in Israel.

And money given as "charity" to other religious and non-profit groups has gone for attempts to deny equal rights to gays, actually trying to create a permanent subset of "the least of my brethren".

Would you actually term the above actions "charity"?!?

It's the God damned truth Crispee and You know it. It was there plain as day to see. When Obama was talking about eliminating the tax deductions for charitable contributions many on the right winged scoffed at that and declared it would reduce charitable donations. It's not rocket science Crispee.

Larry

#150 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2009-10-07 10:53 AM

Are you really this obtuse Larry? Look at your post and explain how only the right declared they would reduce charitable donations? Is your mind a one way street Larry? How can you imply only one side of the political aisle will stop giving to charity because of losing the tax deduction? Does the left equally ever come into play in your world?

In a document outlining his 2010 budget plans, President Obama proposed limiting the value of the tax break for itemized deductions, including donations to charity, to 28 percent for families making more than $250,000. In other words, taxpayers would save 28 cents on their federal income taxes for each dollar donated.

That would reduce by as much as 20 percent the amount wealthy taxpayers could get in tax breaks. Under the current system, taxpayers who are in the 33 percent or 35 percent tax brackets use that rate to claim deductions.

NOW TELL ME I AM FULL OF SHIT CRISPEE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT IF YOU THINK ONLY THE RIGHT TAKES TAX DEDUCTIONS ON CHARITABLE DONATIONS!!!!!

a "majority" of Americans are pissed....

JeffJ

LOL

The MAJORITY spoke on Nov 8, 2008, supporting Obama's campaign platform of healthcare reform, fixing the economy and ending the unnecessary invasion/occupation of iraqnam

A handful of loud, foul mouthed, sour grape rwrs at town hall meetings who have difficulty in realizing what is in their own best interests, a group of dupeees who show up at tea parties with hate and racist signs, and a bunch of people like yourself who regurgitate what you are told to believe by rush, beck, o'reilly, hannity....does not a majority make...

The Republican "majority" has dwindled each and every year since 94.....

Instead of villifying the majority, why not try to figure out why you are now a minority?

Too tough, eh?

crispee

ONLY 2% of Americans CLEAR $250k a year. If you aren't among them, which I doubt greatly considering your constant posting on DR, why are you shilling against your own best interests??

LOL

Something for the "charitable" to consider

Mar 12:42
And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.

Mar 12:43
And he called [unto him] his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:

Mar 12:44
For all [they] did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, [even] all her living.

If charity is good enough, why are 45 million Americans (9 million of them children, most of them working) left without healthcare?

For those lamenting the debt "created" by Obama.

Some facts:

When Bush was sworn in on January 20, 2001, the national debt was $5,727,776,738,304.64.
When "W" left office on January 20, 2009, the national debt was $10,626,877,048,913.08.
The growth in the national debt during his eight years in office: $4,899,100,310,608.44.
The average yearly growth in the national debt during Bush's presidency: $612,387,538,826.05.

The average yearly growth in the national debt during Bush's presidency: $612,387,538,826.05.

About the cost of Obama's plan to provide healthcare to ALL Americans for 10 years.

As opposed to making us less safe by invading/occupying countries that didn't attack us, thus providing recruitment for our enemies and doubling the national debt.

GOP and their dupes say:

healthcare for all Americans=BAD

war profits for giant global war/oil/healthcare pharma corps and tax breaks for those not needing it=GOOD

crispee

"ONLY 2% of Americans CLEAR $250k a year. If you aren't among them, which I doubt greatly considering your constant posting on DR, why are you shilling against your own best interests??"

LOL

Woke...

You must be the happiest SOB around. Every post has you laughing. It may explain the comedy of retorts. I get a laugh or two as well. It always cracks me up when trolls jump in, and spew crap that has nothing to do with the argument or back and forth.

Another belly buster is when said trolls comment on the time spent on drudge. Especially after being shown a thread where the same troll posted for almost 30 hours.

Can you even imagine what a kooky evangelical GOP would do with the powers you've given to our federal government?

#104 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2009-10-07 09:22 AM |

this is almost too easy...

The answer is YES. (see 2001-2009)

1. allow us to be attacked on their watch
2. invade/occupy a country that did not attack us
3. create a war on "terror" from wholecloth
4. out our own cia ops
5. spy on American citizens with no probable cause
6. attempt to assign people to justice dept positions based on politics
7. allow banking, corporations and utilities free reign to make policy, pay few taxes, and run the economy off a cliff

want me to go on?

a "majority" of Americans are pissed....
#155 | Posted by woke at 2009-10-07 11:20 AM | Reply

Dig! Ding! Ding! Ding!...

Is that what you hear in your head? Like an alarm going off when you see the tiniest of openings to spew your predictable "hate righty" crap? For the umpteenth time since you graced everyone here with your presence?

cripsy

don't confuse your lack of ability to understand the issues with other people's pov...

Figure this out. All of healthcare, and especially govt run healthcare, is undergoing a switch to computerized filing, which by itself will eliminate millions in fraud and waste......which explains much of obama's point on fraud and waste...in healthcare...

and again....

"I am mindful not only of preserving executive powers for myself, but for predecessors as well." George W. Bush

You supported it, now LIVE with it!

sure cripsy

you and your other rw trolleyboys on DR are a MAJORITY

but, you must've forgotten to vote last year....is that it?

LMFAO

sure cripsy

you and your other rw trolleyboys on DR are a MAJORITY

but, you must've forgotten to vote last year....is that it?

LMFAO
#164 | Posted by woke at 2009-10-07 11:50 AM

Of course we are probie. You gathered all that scientific data in less than two months. Got some sort of chart for the 2100 or so posters signed up here Sparky?

Try voting next time genius...it's the poll that counts about every 4 years....LOL