not necessarily. Ground Beef is one of the four food groups...

Making turkey chili for the Saints game today. The wife and I gave up red meat a long time ago.

Making hamburger is a human process that allows error into your dinner.

We have canines for a reason. NYT's uses fear to promote veggie agenda.

I haven't eaten ground meat in a restaurant in many years. On those very rare occasions when I use it at home, I either get it from a local butcher or grind it myself.

I figure you have to weigh the benefits and risks on anything, and the risks far outweigh the benefits of eating mass-produced ground meat.

Making turkey chili for the Saints game today. The wife and I gave up red meat a long time ago.
#2 | Posted by taxman at 2009-10-04 01:00 PM

I'm all for carnivorism. It's got nothing to do with a vegetarian agenda. It's pure common sense, like not playing the lottery.

Ya know some times I miss meat, then an article comes out that makes me glad to be a vegetarian. The slim waist line and low cholestoral are nice too.

People who don't eat red meat are missing out. Yummy steaks. Juicy burgers. It that sweet feeling you get when you accept being at the top of the food chain.

It's also a luxury to be a vegetarian, without Capitalism it wouldn't even be a possibility.

Outside of a small region near the equator vegetarianism is not possible. In effect, vegetarianism in humans is not natural.

Man would never have evolved into the intelligent life form he is without the benefits of large amounts of protein and the thought processes acquired through hunting.

Ever year or so some moron comes out with a 'meat is icky' expose in a thinly veiled biased pro vegetarian lecture.

If you want to be a veggie go for it, it leaves more red meat for the normal people who aren't ashamed of being human.

Meat. It's what's for Dinner Today, Tomorrow and into the Future.

Ya know some times I miss meat, then an article comes out that makes me glad to be a vegetarian. The slim waist line and low cholestoral are nice too.
#8 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2009-10-04 01:28 PM

We're on our first week, and last night we cheated with a chicken spinach pizza and this morning I'm trying some very nice low-acid coffee. But we're going to do this entirely. After 30 days we probably will go back to coffee, but maybe not.

People who don't eat red meat are missing out. Yummy steaks. Juicy burgers. It that sweet feeling you get when you accept being at the top of the food chain.
It's also a luxury to be a vegetarian, without Capitalism it wouldn't even be a possibility.
Outside of a small region near the equator vegetarianism is not possible. In effect, vegetarianism in humans is not natural.
Man would never have evolved into the intelligent life form he is without the benefits of large amounts of protein and the thought processes acquired through hunting.
Ever year or so some moron comes out with a 'meat is icky' expose in a thinly veiled biased pro vegetarian lecture.
If you want to be a veggie go for it, it leaves more red meat for the normal people who aren't ashamed of being human.
Meat. It's what's for Dinner Today, Tomorrow and into the Future.
#9 | Posted by zulu at 2009-10-04 01:42 PM

BULLSHIT. 100% everything you've posted is outright shit. I can't understand how you've come to such retarded conclusions. "Capitalism allows it" - uh, which costs more to "produce" - corn or cow? Seriously, if you think that's "top of the food chain" then what do you imagine we're evolved from? How much meat to chimpanzees eat? NONE?! Well, perhaps you're placing far too much on your obsession than what many people are coming to realize today - meat is murder (to cleanse from your body).

As for "future" - what do you think is more economical (in every sense of the term) to grow off-planet? Chickens?!

And "hunting" isn't as evolved as farming. Period.

" How much meat to chimpanzees eat? NONE?! "

Bullshit. Do a little research. Must be your B12 deficiency.

As for "future" - what do you think is more economical (in every sense of the term) to grow off-planet? Chickens?!

I immediately thought of Soylent Green. Tastes like chicken I heard.

Actualy Redlight Zulu is in basicly correct although he uses capitalisim for civilization.

I understand that my life style is supported by a working model of civilization, should that ever go away back to meat (assuming I survive)

However killing anything seems wrong when civilization has given me the means to not.

My cow took a dump on your tomato.

Or it would if you owned a cow.

I don't understand. The FDA is the greatest government agency in human history. How is it possible that they aren't very effective? Maybe if we gave them more money...

"Man would never have evolved into the intelligent life form he is without the benefits of large amounts of protein and the thought processes acquired through hunting."

Oh, that's right. There's no protein in anything except MEAT.

Btw, I love meat. But I bet most of us would not be meat eaters if we had to kill our own food.

And there are large numbers of scientists who argue that the human body is NOT made to digest meat. (Witness the large intestine.) But if you cared to know, you might look it up. You know, rather than making assertions that could be shot down or seriously questioned by thousands of vegetarians and probably as many scientists.

This story is absolutely nothing new (although I haven't read the whole thing since I have to sign in).

Eating ground beef is a gamble because of the risk of e coli contamination, the New York Times reports.

No shit. Hence the little label on all burgers and in all restaurant menus warning against eating undercooked ground beef.

The paper states that the system meant to make the meat safe and the meat itself are not what consumers have been led to believe. "Ground beef is not a completely safe product," said Dr. Jeffrey Bender, a food safety expert at the University of Minnesota.

Again, no shit. You can never completely prevent contamination of this type of product. What you can do is cook the shit out of it, as is recommended.

On topic: the CDC are never to be trusted. Use your head and go with your gut on this one.

This is a joke, right?

I'm trying some very nice low-acid coffee.

Low acid coffee?!? WTF good is it if it doesn't strip the enamel off your teeth?

And there are large numbers of scientists who argue that the human body is NOT made to digest meat.

On what basis?

Our bodies are absolutely made to digest meat. Our jaws and teeth are made to eat it. Our bile salts are made to absorb the fat complexes. Our digestion tracts are loaded with digestive enzymes to break down the high protein content.

How much meat to chimpanzees eat? NONE?!

Who cares?

Humans' entire digestive track from the canine teeth to the large intestine evolved to handle an omnivorous diet.

Eat grass fed beef and you don't have to worry about it. Eat it raw (with a little apple cider vinegar mixed in) and you'll digest it in hours as opposed to weeks.

The grain based diet of most American beef promotes acidosis and an internal environment that e coli thrives in. Meat, particularly from larger animals with a higher fat content, does provide some EFAs that aren't present in veggies, and have been linked to human brain development and subsequent innovation (tools, for example).

Meat in general should be a higher priced food, but the subsidies to grain farmers that encourage the current feed lot paradigm, and the toxic fertilizers used in so many farms aren't helping things. Go grass fed and keep it local and seasonal for the rest of your diet. Pollan said it best in the Omnivore's Dilemma: "Eat food, not too much, mostly plants."

Thats why If I eat meat which, I rarely do, I will have the roast ground up at my butcher while I wait.

Thats why If I eat meat which, I rarely do, I will have the roast ground up at my butcher while I wait.

And pick up whatever was in the grinder prior.

I don't know if I'm just lucky, have a to-be-envied immune system or what, but I have never gotten sick from meat that I know of. I eat rare ground beef, rare, even raw steak, and I don't get sick. I've gotten to the point where after 35 years of reading food scares, I just laugh.

"On what basis?"

I'm not a scientist. I said scientists. Feel free to look it up. One argument I've read is about the twisted large intestine--that pure meat eaters have short, straight intestines. I've not done the research, and I don't have a horse in this race, so I don't give a rat's ass.

I love meat. Particularly pork. And lamb, but only in Indian food.

What I'd like to see is a step away from the huge centralized food nightmare we have now. How many rendering plants are there? (Feed lots.) Five? Yikes. So contamination could be easy and easily rampant. I'd also like to see GMOs go away. I dig the localvore movement, but then I like to eat off-season foods and I live in northern New England, so... Yeah, I like the grocery store. But if I had it together a little more, I'd get meat and poultry from local producers, after doing a little research...

I'm not a scientist. I said scientists. Feel free to look it up. One argument I've read is about the twisted large intestine--that pure meat eaters have short, straight intestines. I've not done the research, and I don't have a horse in this race, so I don't give a rat's ass.

I was only interested in what you've heard. I didn't think you were the primary author of original research.

And lamb, but only in Indian food.

mmmmm Indian food. Those people know how to cook.

I'd also like to see GMOs go away.

I've yet to hear a good argument for why GMOs are bad to consume. I've heard provocative arguments based on the impact on the local ecology they can have, but not anything regarding effects on human consumers.

"I've yet to hear a good argument for why GMOs are bad to consume. I've heard provocative arguments based on the impact on the local ecology they can have, but not anything regarding effects on human consumers."

That's because we don't know! And that's the scary part. But again, I don't have that sort of knowledge or argument ready to hand. It's just something that makes me uncomfortable. Turkeys with 8 legs. Just... why? Ye gods. But even GM corn. Or what have you? At the very least, it's bizarre and makes me uneasy. More realistically, I have read some scary stuff, but I think it comes down to the idea that we have no idea, and why are we fucking around? (Of course, one can extend that to lots of things. : ) )

'There's no protein in anything except MEAT. '

Once it freezes vegetables die. Once the ground freezes you can't dig up roots.

Nobody said the were not sources of protein other than meat. There no practical sources of consistently available protein outside of a thin region near the equator, and that's questionable.

"On topic: the CDC are never to be trusted. Use your head and go with your gut on this one."

This is a joke, right?

"I'm trying some very nice low-acid coffee."

Low acid coffee?!? WTF good is it if it doesn't strip the enamel off your teeth?

"And there are large numbers of scientists who argue that the human body is NOT made to digest meat."

On what basis?
Our bodies are absolutely made to digest meat. Our jaws and teeth are made to eat it. Our bile salts are made to absorb the fat complexes. Our digestion tracts are loaded with digestive enzymes to break down the high protein content.
#19 | Posted by jpw at 2009-10-04 03:34 PM

What I meant is that I don't blindly trust the CDC, or any agency for that matter. They've repeatedly lied about the infectious tissue from the downer cow scenario - on live global television no less, AIDS, SARS, H1N1 and H5N1, West Nile, etc. The FDA and CDC also tend to scare people into crass, ambiguously tested procedures such as swine flu vaccinations, fluoridation, over-chlorination, medical testing throughout time and even enforced mercury amalgam as a standard dental procedure. And those are just a tiny percent of the publicly exposed issues. For cancer treatment I believe that radiation therapy and surgeries are not theraputic, while cannabis and raw foods are. We differ on nearly all issues. Either I'm a moron (debatable) or they are lying (undoubtedly).

Low-acid coffee helps keep the acid reflux in check. I remember when this started and I immediately went to a doctor (yep, when I still "believed"). They said is was nothing. I did my own research and it appeared to be GERD, and as the weeks of sleeplessness continued (I'd wake up vomiting) I went back and asked for a throat culture to check for GERD or whatnot. They refused. Later on it developed into Crohn's Disease which I'm currently afflicted with. What's really embarrassing is when I had to take two hours each way to and from work on public transportation - all the while my bowels were stewing nastily. That's when I started pot - and it does help with all of the symptoms, but I don't really enjoy smoking at all and would prefer any non-stenchful, healthier meathod of ingestion. I've seen some YouTube vids of people treating it with pretty much the same raw food diet that appears to cure diabetes, so that's where my self-serving interests lay. Curing myself. I saw the Puroast last night because I've never seen "low acid" coffee, got a bag to share and made a pot this morning.. so, there it is. I might sneak a cup here or there, but I want this diet to work, so it's undoubtedly counter-active to that goal. Otherwise, the stuff I prefer is over $20/lb from a local roaster - soooo yummy. Also, I ritually praise South America before my first sip - seriously, I pray for their well-being and a bountiful harvest. Selfish, perhaps..:]

"How much meat to chimpanzees eat? NONE?!"

Also, I believe my hyperhydrosis is also a condition of my diet. Again, YouTube vids provide some evidence of people combating this through dietary (pH) changes.

"Thats why If I eat meat which, I rarely do, I will have the roast ground up at my butcher while I wait."

And pick up whatever was in the grinder prior.
I don't know if I'm just lucky, have a to-be-envied immune system or what, but I have never gotten sick from meat that I know of. I eat rare ground beef, rare, even raw steak, and I don't get sick. I've gotten to the point where after 35 years of reading food scares, I just laugh.
#23 | Posted by goatman at 2009-10-04 04:11 PM

From what I've read and seen that's the best method to consume meat - as raw as possible.

From what I've read and seen that's the best method to consume meat - as raw as possible.

It certainly is the tastiest. I cringe when I see someone order a nice ribeye or filet or T-bone well done.

Chimps hunt meat in the wild. Chimps will eat some other chimp's baby. They even eat humans.

Jane Goodall wrote of a chimp eating another chimp's baby and then consoling the mother.

The problem with people being fat and suffering from heart disease isn't meat it's twinkies, potato chips and pepsi.

People eat like pigs, don't blame red meat.

The key to being healthy is moderation. Seems like people spend about 10 years gaining 20 pounds and then try to blame everyone and everything except for themselves for the mess they're in.

Exercise and lay off the carbs.

At least eight children have died in the past seven years in Uganda and Tanzania after being taken by chimpanzees, and a further eight injured. The children were found with limbs and other parts of their bodies chewed off.

Primate experts blame deforestation and human encroachment on the chimpanzees' habitat for the more aggressive behaviour but are divided on whether the animals are defending their territory or seeking a replacement food source.

Chimpanzees were believed to be largely vegetarian until it was discovered by Jane Goodall, a British scientist, in the 1960s that they are predatory animals that often hunt smaller primates in packs.

(needed repeating)

Eat grass fed beef and you don't have to worry about it. Eat it raw (with a little apple cider vinegar mixed in) and you'll digest it in hours as opposed to weeks.
The grain based diet of most American beef promotes acidosis and an internal environment that e coli thrives in. Meat, particularly from larger animals with a higher fat content, does provide some EFAs that aren't present in veggies, and have been linked to human brain development and subsequent innovation (tools, for example).
Meat in general should be a higher priced food, but the subsidies to grain farmers that encourage the current feed lot paradigm, and the toxic fertilizers used in so many farms aren't helping things. Go grass fed and keep it local and seasonal for the rest of your diet. Pollan said it best in the Omnivore's Dilemma: "Eat food, not too much, mostly plants."
#21 | Posted by regime_change at 2009-10-04 03:59 PM

That sound correct - fermenting foods makes them more nutritionally available to digest. I'll definitely try that with meat next month, it's the same process with grains for this raw diet. You can't cook anything above 110 degrees, so we have to soak beans, seed and nuts overnight in water plus either lemon juice, yogurt or cider vinegar and the indigestible phytates which bind with (steal away) calcium and iron dissolve, the proteins are left undamaged.

It certainly is the tastiest. I cringe when I see someone order a nice ribeye or filet or T-bone well done.

The secret to a good steak is marbling. There has to be fat, it's the fat that makes the steak a winner or a loser. Lean beef is a crock of shit.

Beef should not be over cooked, that just ruins the flavor.

The problem with people being fat and suffering from heart disease isn't meat it's twinkies, potato chips and pepsi.
People eat like pigs, don't blame red meat.
The key to being healthy is moderation. Seems like people spend about 10 years gaining 20 pounds and then try to blame everyone and everything except for themselves for the mess they're in.
Exercise and lay off the carbs.
#35 | Posted by zulu at 2009-10-04 05:54 PM

I agree that moderation is absolutely the way to go. I think because the meats take so much energy to digest and the twinkies are readily available carbs, but doesn't contain already-inverted sugars the body gets too much too quickly and just begins stuffing it away in fat while the liver overloads. This might be another key to diabetes.

The thing that I noticed most about this raw food diet is that is causes toxicity within one week, but that's the crucial turning point whereby the body will regulate it's own insulin. It appears to be useful to go off the diet for a night, then begin again, otherwise the toxic processing effects might be dangerous, imo.

Eating ground beef is a gamble because of the risk of e coli contamination

Or... prions.

Not your ideal source of protein.

The mood swings are dramatic... the lows are very ugly, but the highs appear to be awesome, even spiritual.

Eat grass fed beef and you don't have to worry about it. Eat it raw (with a little apple cider vinegar mixed in) and you'll digest it in hours as opposed to weeks.

Projectile vomit yuck.

Beef should not be eaten raw with apple cider vinegar unless the alternative is outright starvation.

Be it rabbit, pig, steer, antelope, deer or duck cook the damn thing and put some salt and pepper on it. Don't be a pussy.

In Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors, Carl Sagan dedicated a chapter to chimps. It was titled GANGS.

"Eating ground beef is a gamble because of the risk of e coli contamination"

Or... prions.
Not your ideal source of protein.
#41 | Posted by ZombieHunter at 2009-10-04 06:03 PM

My main reason for avoiding it entirely for so long. Only when I visit my family do I barbecue beef.

Ever since that mad cow scare and the way the government agencies responded, I've decided to give it up.

"Dr Gavin said that the technique used by the chimps to kill or maim the children mirrors the way they tear apart other prey, suggesting that they snatched the human young to eat. "In most cases they bite off the limbs first before disemboweling them, just as they would the red colobus monkey which is one of their favourite prey," he said."

"Eating Ground Beef is a Gamble"

...especially when the cows are fed corn (it raises the acidity of the rumen), pumped up on hormones, steroids, and antibiotics, and are packed in so densely that they end up wallowing in each others' shit all day long.

Once one gets sick, the whole lot can easily become infected.

Oh Jesus Christ E Coli bruhahahaha. They always come up with SOMETHING to scare up the populace. Bunch of conartists.

Larry

Just cook your meat until it is well done and E-Coli isn't an issue.

How to catch bass with a rattlesnake.

That's disturbing.

For cancer treatment I believe that radiation therapy and surgeries are not theraputic, while cannabis and raw foods are.

Fortunately beliefs don't make it so.

Cannabis and raw foods will not get rid of cancer. They may make you feel better, but that doesn't mean the cancer is gone.

Low-acid coffee helps keep the acid reflux in check. I remember when this started and I immediately went to a doctor (yep, when I still "believed"). They said is was nothing. I did my own research and it appeared to be GERD, and as the weeks of sleeplessness continued (I'd wake up vomiting) I went back and asked for a throat culture to check for GERD or whatnot. They refused. Later on it developed into Crohn's Disease which I'm currently afflicted with.

Great, glad it works.

However, I'm a little fuzzy on how an esophageal disease like GERD becomes Crohn's Disease, a disease of the intestines. Has it occurred that maybe it wasn't GERD?

In any case, best of luck.

Eat grass fed beef and you don't have to worry about it.

It doesn't matter what they're fed. E coli is a normal resident of the gut and it only becomes a problem when the meat comes in contact with the gut contents. It's only a problem with ground beef because the innards of the patty were once the outside and therefore risked contamination. Steaks don't have E coli contamination because muscle is sterile and the inside is never exposed, the part that is is seared when you throw it on a grill.

@ zulu: I wasn't saying drown it, and I was talking about a raw burger. a little acv mixed in there along with some chopped garlic, onion, spices, is very nice. I even put in a raw egg. What you're making is essentially steak tartare. Cooked is fine too, but I rarely want beef cooked beyond black and blue, and ideally on a grill. And as for the flavor of grass-fed, I offer up the Argentine beef as an example of the tastiest beef in the world. Of course, the aging process is crucial, and it needs to be cooked more slowly (the Argentines do it over embers). But it's staggeringly good, and much healthier than most US beef.

@ redlight: yeah, sprouting/fermentation etc. helps tremendously, beans/legumes are loaded with phytates that need to be leached out before humans can get full benefit from them (grains are also hard to digest). one of the reasons soy is fermented for best effect. I have experimented with raw diets for a few years, definitely hard to maintain when in a city and tempted by nice restaurants, but incredibly rich in energy if you can do so. Also very surprised by the effect of raw meat on libido...it's a potent aphrodisiac. At least for me.

@JPW. Sorry, you're wrong. Grains change the acid composition of the gut, hence the proliferation of e coli. Present is one thing, dominant is another.

Sorry, you're wrong. Grains change the acid composition of the gut, hence the proliferation of e coli. Present is one thing, dominant is another.

Link?

I think the moral of this story, JPW, is that cannabis will make you feel better. A lot better. And not just when you're dying of cancer.

Nevermind. I found several including the original paper from 2000 that showed what you state.

Nevermind. I found several including the original paper from 2000 that showed what you state.

see #56.

here's a link to some happy, grass fed cows of mine:

The paper states that the system meant to make the meat safe and the meat itself are not what consumers have been led to believe.

What have consumers been led to believe? That meat grows on Styrofoam trays? Ignorance may not be bliss, but it's certainly nicer than knowing how hamburger is made.

In health class in the eighth grade, the teacher asked if any of us knew how butter is made. Mine was the only hand that went up.

I think the USDA doesn't even have the authority to recall meat. Classic complex systems behavior -- the entity created to remedy a problem ends up working against its original agenda.

So long as food is cheap and the casualties relatively light, Americans won't care.

@ zulu: I wasn't saying drown it, and I was talking about a raw burger. a little acv mixed in there along with some chopped garlic, onion, spices, is very nice. I even put in a raw egg. What you're making is essentially steak tartare. Cooked is fine too, but I rarely want beef cooked beyond black and blue, and ideally on a grill. And as for the flavor of grass-fed, I offer up the Argentine beef as an example of the tastiest beef in the world. Of course, the aging process is crucial, and it needs to be cooked more slowly (the Argentines do it over embers). But it's staggeringly good, and much healthier than most US beef.

Yes, the aging process is imperative. Argentine beef is garbage. Wyoming beef from the Powder River is regarded and recognized the world over as the greatest.

If you keep eating raw meat and eggs you are going to regret it. Other than the disgust factor what does it say about a man who is to lazy to cook his food. Have some self respect man.

In health class in the eighth grade, the teacher asked if any of us knew how butter is made. Mine was the only hand that went up.

One morning while flipping through channels during the morning cup of coffee, I caught a segment of a show on butcher shops on the History Channel. I just so happened to catch the segment on hotdogs and got to see the large vat o' meat paste being pushed through a filter to make the actual hotdogs.

Haven't eaten one since.

Not really related, but what the hell.

If you keep eating raw meat and eggs you are going to regret it.

Depends on the source of the meat and eggs, in my opinion. Industrial farming is what makes raw products so dangerous. All the bad stuff that lives in shit was traditionally kept away from the meat; not so much in the industrial approach.

Fish is more of a gamble because who knows what they've been swimming in, and there's no doubt we've shitted plenty in the oceans.

"Fish is more of a gamble"

Got mercury?

I just so happened to catch the segment on hotdogs and got to see the large vat o' meat paste being pushed through a filter to make the actual hotdogs.

Haven't eaten one since.

I was watching something similar on food network. They were making sausages by hand, grinding the meat, filling up the intestines, tying them off.

It made me hungry. But only for good sausage. Johnsonville brats still make me sick.

Hot dogs, I pretty much only eat those around campfires.

lol. you should eat meat becvause you have canine teeth. i guess males should breastfeed babies because men also have nipples.

check out deer/antelope teeth. alot like ours. they are herbivores.

red meat has big time tie-ins to colon (and other) cancers.

just keep eating what the advertisers want you to buy.

@ Zulu: Because you've been to Argentina right? Or Brazil? Or Uruguay? And you hated their beef? Or could it be you're just a jingoistic xenophobe? Hmmm...

"...what does it say about a man to [sic] lazy to cook his food.[sic]"

I guess it says you don't know much about the intricacies of raw cuisine, and I'm not going to bother convincing you otherwise.

just keep eating what the advertisers want you to buy.

I live for me, not you, not the vegan asswipes and not for the advertisers.

I eat what tastes good. And I love animal flesh.

"I eat what tastes good."

There you go, listening to your body again.
Caught any more tuna?

I just finished a rare local grass-fed ribeye with a glass of cab.

I said this once before, but it bears repeating:

I did one of these on-line actuarial thingys that supposedly could predict your lifespan. It asked questions about family cancersm, diet, exercise, lifestyle, drinking, where you lived, etc. I answered honestly and got the age of 77. I then chnaged the part about my dietary habits to indicate that I eat very healthy food, no fats, etc. It raised my expected lifetime to 79.

We are all different, but as for me, it's not worth eating a lifetime of boring food to live two extra years. It may be for some, but not me.

@Zat: Hell yeah, I love ribeye. Good butcher here in NYC gets a nice one from a Hudson Valley farm. Wish I could get my own beef to taste that good. Goddamn lack of electricity for a nice aging room gets me down at times.

Maybe even better with a Malbec?

I just finished a rare local grass-fed ribeye with a glass of cab

fucker

Caught any more tuna?

No. We just got back on location today AAMOF after a 4 day tow from Corpus. We were in the yards for 10 weeks.

Fishing to resume shortly.

"Fishing to resume shortly."

Bon chance, bon appetite.

@ Zulu: Because you've been to Argentina right? Or Brazil? Or Uruguay? And you hated their beef? Or could it be you're just a jingoistic xenophobe? Hmmm...

My grandfather grew up in Argentina. He used to reminisce about how stringy and tough the beef was, about the only way you could eat Argentine beef was raw with some vinegar on it. If you were lucky you might add a raw egg to give it some flavor.

I guess it says you don't know much about the intricacies of raw cuisine

No, I know how to start a fire so I've never had to face eating cold wet anything. Anyone can learn to start a fire, unless you're lazy.

Ya'll are making me hungry.

"Maybe even better with a Malbec?"

There's a research project if I ever saw one.

"Ya'll are making me hungry."

@Zulu: So, as I suspected, second hand info colors your opinion. I suggest you go visit the old country and visit a parilla argentina, and taste for yourself.

Do you start a fire in your kitchen? Hell, I just turn on the gas stove. I never said I didn't cook, only that there are plenty of raw dishes that are excellent. Sushi, would be one, for example. But to you, that's cold and wet. Lo siento.

My grandfather grew up in Argentina. He used to reminisce about how stringy and tough the beef was...

Last year when we were drilling off the coast of Columbia and Brazil, we got the local beef. It was indeed tougher, but fuck! the flavor was incredible.

#4 | Posted by aclusux at 2009-10-04 01:13 PM
***"We have canines for a reason. NYT's uses fear to promote veggie agenda."

At first glance I thought you were making a joke about eating dogs...

Then it came to me: teeth...

Doh!!!

My grandfather grew up in Argentina. He used to reminisce about how stringy and tough the beef was...

Argentina has changed a lot since then. Their standard of living is such that grandfathers don't have to eat old horses any more. :)

Their standard of living is such that grandfathers don't have to eat old horses any more. :)

If memory serves they actually did eat the horses.

It made me hungry. But only for good sausage. Johnsonville brats still make me sick.

Amen my grandfather was in a farming comunity and we would get fresh ground sausage. I don't think I have ever had better and frankly had quit eating sausage long before I became a vegetarian because I just couldn't get any as good.

I about died laughing a few weeks ago when some co-workers were arguing who had the best sausage biscuts. Hands down my grandma who fresh made biscuts on a wood stove and used the greese from the sausage to coat the biscuts, greased the pan with real lard and damn! Sad thing is as unhealthy as all that is it still is better for you than anything you get at biscutville.

Oh, that's right. There's no protein in anything except MEAT.

#17 | Posted by pragmatist at 2009-10-04 03:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

Not true at all.

What is the point of this article? There is a risk in eating ANY food! Like choking. Where is the expensive study about the risks of choking on organic food? Waste of money...

Grind your own...select your cuts and make your own grind.

Tasty...because you can include the cuts that you enjoy and the level of fat (flavor carrier) you want.

Awwwsome....

If God didn't want us to eat meat he wouldn't have made so many things out of them...

--------
Hunting for Roadkill:

You need chalk and a spatula.

Walk down the side of the road and put a chalk circle around all the dead things you find.
Walk back. Anything without a circle around it is fresh, so scrape it up (with the spatula) and enjoy!

NB: Often bringing a friend as a lookout helps keep you from being the next roadkill...

It's also a luxury to be a vegetarian, without Capitalism it wouldn't even be a possibility.

Outside of a small region near the equator vegetarianism is not possible. In effect, vegetarianism in humans is not natural.

#9 | Posted by zulu

Right... Tell millions your "countrymen" across the African continent about what a luxury it is to be vegetarian.

Bizarre effect though is that the incidence of GERD (gastroesophageal reflux disease), better known as heartburn, is practically unknown across the African continent. They may be starving to death, but at least they don't have to suffer the anguish of heartburn.

"Man would never have evolved into the intelligent life form he is without the benefits of large amounts of protein and the thought processes acquired through hunting."

#17 | Posted by pragmatist

I would argue with you the intelligence of Man, considering the state of the planet today.

How much meat to chimpanzees eat? NONE?!

#10 | Posted by redlightrobot

That's not true at all. Primates are omnivores, as are we, primates that we are. We gobble it all, baby!

Just 'cause you don't see Cheeta firing up the BBQ or chasing down Bambi doesn't mean that Cheeta won't eat a slab of prime rare if given the opportunity.

Lots of cites out on the net supporting this.

""Man would never have evolved into the intelligent life form he is without the benefits of large amounts of protein and the thought processes acquired through hunting."
#17 | Posted by pragmatist
I would argue with you the intelligence of Man, considering the state of the planet today."

Whoops! That wasn't me! I believe I quoted someone else, and countered it...

Ya know some times I miss meat, then an article comes out that makes me glad to be a vegetarian. The slim waist line and low cholestoral are nice too.

#8 | Posted by TaoWarrior

Your vegetarianism though is a choice and does go contrary to what we essentially are and what we require nutritionally. That you are veggie I have no problem with. From what I have read though you have to be very careful about what you eat to ensure that you are consuming the correct amounts of specific amino acids, proteins, and the like, that are far more prevalent in meat than in plants. Generally, veggies have to take supplements to ensure the balance is there.

Low-acid coffee helps keep the acid reflux in check. I remember when this started and I immediately went to a doctor (yep, when I still "believed"). They said is was nothing. I did my own research and it appeared to be GERD...

#28 | Posted by redlightrobot

Been there, done that. What really helps is no coffee at all. I know: horrifying that no coffee thing. I limit myself to my small pot in the morning. Period. No more at work.

Caffeine is an irritant as well as the acids.

GERD has different causes. Mine happens to be a hiatal hernia. Dropping belly poundage greatly relieves this.

An endoscopy is pretty definitive as to determining the cause for your GERDiness.

Eat grass fed beef and you don't have to worry about it. Eat it raw (with a little apple cider vinegar mixed in) and you'll digest it in hours as opposed to weeks.

#21 | Posted by regime_change

That's simply nonsense. Nothing stays in your colon for weeks.

Goes back to that silly stuff of people having 10 pounds of undigested meat in their colon. All it takes is the prep for the Big Eye procedure (colonoscopy) and you'll see just what exactly is in your colon.

Anyone can learn to start a fire, unless you're lazy.

#79 | Posted by zulu

Also helps if there is something handy to burn.

Not a lot to burn out on the open prairie or savanna, for example. Dried meadow muffins. No doubt contribute an interesting flavor to whatever your cooking up.

"Nothing stays in your colon for weeks. "

More like 3 to 4 hours.

#99 "Nothing stays in your colon for weeks"

I guess parasites are further up in the digestive pipe works? I think I had one for a month, once. Drank nothing but cranberry juice the entire time, ate lots of yogurt, killed the sumbitch. That month wasn't fun, though, and I had student health insurance. Prolly should've just gone to the doctor.

I guess parasites are further up in the digestive pipe works?

#102 | Posted by Scrumplet

Fine... I'll amend...

No food stays in your colon for weeks.

Try a colonoscopy prep. There won't be anything in your colon.

Try a colonoscopy prep. There won't be anything in your colon.

Posted by Zatoichi at 2009-10-05 10:44 AM | Reply

I believe Phosphosoda has been recalled all over because of potential kidney damage. I wonder what they will use instead??

Miralax; The whole bottle.

And "hunting" isn't as evolved as farming. Period.

#10 | Posted by redlightrobot

That's why hunting came BEFORE farming.

#25 Zulu> The key to being healthy is moderation. Seems like people spend about 10 years gaining 20 pounds and then try to blame everyone and everything except for themselves for the mess they're in.

A friend has a mother-in-law who always blames her obesity on his wife ... her last child. She'd whine at every occasion about how the "baby fat" of her last pregnancy just never came off. One day he and his wife were looking through the mother-in-law's photo album and found a lovely photo of his wife at age one ... being held by her very slim mother. He had the picture blown up and framed for his mother-in-law, who rarely ever talks to him anymore.

My opinion: 99% of the Americans who are obese have nobody but themselves to blame. There is nutritious food widely available for not a lot of money (beans & rice come to mind).

.......beef.......

....even when it's good it's bad for you......

My opinion: 99% of the Americans who are obese have nobody but themselves to blame. .................
#109 | Posted by AKat

....how long does Obama have to be in office before we can start blaming him for this obesity epidemic ??......

....after all.......

....as Beck would provide absolute proof of the connection on a blackboard, by showing that OB-ama and OB-esity start with the same secret, African magic letters, therefore anything that starts with OB- is going to be OB-ama's doing......

I think I had one for a month, once.
......#102 | Posted by Scrumplet

.....maybe one of your boyfriends just dropped his car keys......

It's also a luxury to be a vegetarian, without Capitalism it wouldn't even be a possibility.
.....#9 | Posted by zulu

......I lived in Hungary during the 50's, during communism.......

......there was very little meat, and what there was, was unaffordable......

.......almost everybody was vegetarian, but not by choice.......

.....most suppers, you chose potato or cabbage.....next night, cabbage or potato.....

@ Zot: try a gravity style colonic. See what can't possibly be hanging around up there. You'll be unpleasantly surprised. Meat can stay in your system for days, if not weeks. Very few people on the standard American diet have clean colons. Do a fast, liver cleanse, colon program, and you'll eliminate literally pounds of impacted matter.

Zot: try a gravity style colonic. See what can't possibly be hanging around up there. .
....#114 | Posted by regime_change

.....why not just take a dump ?......
Posted by diaper_change

@Zot: Also, please note, I'm not talking about "John Wayne had 40 pounds in his colon" type of scare stories, but about diverticulosis and colitis and other medical conditions resulting from fecal matter not being flushed out properly (which can be from a low fiber diet or even the posture used for elimination). And I'm not saying that meat in general is bad, but that grass-fed beef is safer and healthier, and that raw foods in general (though not all) are much easier for the body to process.

@skizziks: if you're going after every meal, then you likely don't have a problem. GIGO, and all that. But if not...well, you might want to look into it.

.....regarding impacted matter......

....there was a doctor on Oprah a few months ago who said that "impacted matter in the colon" was a myth. ...he put a colonoscope through a person's alimentary system and you could see it going through the whole system.....

....the doctor said he looks up colons all day , but that the waste all gets expelled, there is no residue, the walls of the intestines and the colon secrete a liquid that does not allow stuff to stick.....

Skizziks, just to let you know what you're in store for if you get an enema... Have you ever seen that video of Mt. St. Helens blowing up?

Imagine how that volcano felt before it released all of that pressure.

ya, people are falling left and right from e-coli from ground beef. Nice story. fear-mongering assholes.

there was a doctor on Oprah a few months ago who said that "impacted matter in the colon" was a myth

True fecal impactions are very real and very serious... if you're colon is completely blocked by a brick of shit, you either need to shit said brick or you will end up rupturing your colon. Which is very bad.

I don't know about this "shit sticking to the walls of your intestine" business.

if you're going after every meal, then you likely don't have a problem.
#117 | Posted by regime_change

.....my system runs like a clock......

....I get up at 5 am, make a giant coffee, then sit on the toilet for an hour reading the newspaper cover to cover with the coffee.......then I go for a five mile run......and when I get back....there may be a little bit more poop to come out .....but then I don't have to go again until next morning......

Skizziks, just to let you know what you're in store for if you get an enema... Have you ever seen that video of Mt. St. Helens blowing up?
....#119 | Posted by ZombieHunter

......I had a hernia operation about twenty years ago....they gave me an enema.....I half ran, half duck walked to the toilet and had the biggest eruption, outside of the time I had twelve beers and a giant can of beans ( don't ask, it was football season ).......

And when will we have the "Vegetarian Czar" appointed?

Eat what you want; drink what you want. Just be prepared to live with any consequences of those choices. After all, "Free Health Care" will take care of any bad choices.

Personally, I love a little Wagyu beef (ask PresBO!) making a yummy moment in my mouth!

You want to be a vegan? Great! I want to be a omnivore? Great!

Remember, hemlock is "all natural" as are several species mushrooms...but deadly.

And when will we have the "Vegetarian Czar" appointed?
...124 | Posted by daprof

......right after we get a "Colonic Irrigation Czar" .....

An hour on the toilet and things are running like a clock? Maybe you just enjoy reading the paper on the toilet. Sounds about 55 min too long to me.

.....yup......try it sometimes.....

....the fact that I would be reading the paper and drinking coffee anyways is very relaxing......and I am literally cleaned out for the day......

"Nobody said the were not sources of protein other than meat. There no practical sources of consistently available protein outside of a thin region near the equator, and that's questionable."

Soy will provide all the proteins necessary and can be grown from equator to Wisconsin......so it's not really a very thin belt as some claim.....
Then if one adds in whey proteins, well then I guess a cow does become useful.

Some surprising vegans.....

Bill Manetti- power lifting champion
Bill Pearl- 4-time mister universe
Stan Price- world record holder bench press

and anyone who has ever seen a Jack Lalane juicer infomercial prays they look as good as he does at 174 years old!! admiitedly he has gone slightly away from his veganism and now eats fish and egg-whites.

LM

Soy will provide all the proteins necessary ...

I like the taste of meat better.

Steak Tartare

What is Steak Tartare?

Steak Tartare is a cold dish made with raw top quality beef meat.

Ingredients

2 lbs sirloin or filet mignon
1 egg yolk
2 tsp mustard, Dijon mustard recommended
1 tb onions, finely chopped
1 tb capers, drained
A few drops of Tabasco sauce
1 tsp Worcestershire sauce
2 tb olive oil
2 tsp parley, minced
Salt and pepper

Recipe (serve 6)

Step 1: Trim and grind the meat twice. Chop finely the onions and egg yolk.

Step 2: In a bowl, mix the egg yolk, onions, capers, mustard, Worcestershire sauce, Tabasco sauce, salt and pepper.

Step 3: Add olive oil and beat lightly for a few seconds.

Step 4: Add meat and parsley. Season with salt and pepper. Beat lightly for a few seconds.

Step 5: Refrigerate or serve immediately.

Serving: Steak Tartare cannot be preserved more than 2 hours, even in a fridge. Served with french fries or as a starter.

Wine suggestion: Red wine such as Beaujolais, Crozes Hermitage or Cahors (French Wine Guide).

Bon appetit!

It's hard to find Steak Tartare in America. The last time I had it was in Canada a couple of years ago. I think America's irrational germ fears keep restaurants from serving it. Too bad. I love it.

I had 3 docs tell me I had GERD. After having the gall bladder taken out, it went away for awhile, only to re-appear and cause a trip to the ER. Then I had a surgeon suggest that the medicine I was taking for the supposed GERD was the cause of all of it. He suggested yogurt - in large quantities - every day for 2 weeks. I now eat yogurt about 2x a month, and haven't taken ANY medicine since (almost 2 years). Went from spending over 100 bucks a month on Prevacid and Reglan to 0.

Moral of the story - anybody who's told they have GERD, have your gall bladder tested (mine was severely enlarged). If that doesn't work, try some natural remedies. Yogurt, pure honey and cinamon (sp?) all seemed to work.

I think America's irrational germ fears keep restaurants from serving it. Too bad. I love it.
Posted by goatman

Actually it comes from the Federal Government's (the FDA specifically) inability to control what goes on in slaughterhouses, so localities are left to do the only thing they can, which is to pass legislation on how meat can be served in restaurants.

I make turkey meatballs for our occasions based on this recipe. I add nutmeg to this ground turkey dish.
#6 | Posted by redlightrobot

Thanks to redlight. I worked off that recipe last night. Skipped the carrots and went with Italian breadcrumbs instead of the plain bread. Worked out well.

Btw, I love meat. But I bet most of us would not be meat eaters if we had to kill our own food.

#17 | Posted by pragmatist at 2009-10-04 03:12 PM

I beheaded, scalded, and cleaned the gizards of about 40 chickens that day.

Even after scraping out the insides of a gizzard, I was still able to eat a big helping of them with gravy. The fact that I had killed it myself added a wonderul quality; in a way I had more respect for what I was eating.

Not sure I accept your premise.

Any decent Italian restaurant will have carpaccio. Just posting that makes me hungry.

From the article:

"The frozen hamburgers that the Smiths ate, which were made by the food giant Cargill..."

The problem, right there. Trusting a corporation to feed you properly.

Fresh ground beef, or any other meat from your trusted local butcher and you are 99% better off, IMHO.

I never buy anything, especially meat, that has been "processed", frozen, and packaged in plastic. It's so much more satisfying to cook from fresh local ingredients, it tastes better, and I don't have to worry about which underpaid, resentful food processing employee decided to skip a step or two, on top of a system that is basically flawed where food safety is concerned.

Eat local, eat natural, and eat what's in season. Your body and mind will thank you for it.

I never buy anything, especially meat, that has been "processed", frozen, and packaged in plastic.

Its not in the processing, its in the slaughtering.

Its not in the processing, its in the slaughtering.

#138 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-10-05 11:44 PM

"Ground beef is not a completely safe product,"

Ya think?

Everything has a risk factor.

From potentially getting hit by a bus crossing the street to slipping in the bath-tub and breaking yer neck we take risks every day.

You can die from an under-cooked, ecoli-laden ground beef meal or die from from eating ecoli-laden spinach or tomatoes.

Personally, Spud would rather die after eating an ecoli-laden steak rather than a ecoli-ridden spinach salad.

Just cos.

While Spud certainly eats less red meat now than in days gone by the idea of cutting it out of me spuddish diet completely is completely "not on the table", so to speak.

A perfect steak or rack of lamb or pot roast or Thanksgiving Turkey is a thing of beauty.

Meat is murder?

Yes. Yes, it is.

Is also YUM!

:>P---

Be Well.

/Favorite joke from Disney's "The Lion King":
//"Wot's eating you?"
///"Nothings eating me. I'm on the top of the food chain."

Steak Tartare

Several years ago I was in Montreal on business.

The Hotel in which I stayed was slightly more upscale than those I normally frequented. (The bar had caviar as Hors d oeuvres)

After a drink I went to the restaurant for dinner.

I was dressed in my normal attire of starched, pressed jeans, a western shirt, boots, and a very nice Stetson hat. The other diners were dressed very casually so I was not out of place.

This place had an extensive menu of items one does not usually find in a Holiday Inn.

I ordered Steak Tartare. My waitress was French speaking and appeared to have very little English.
After asking me 3 or 4 times if I was sure that this is what I wanted she left. Several minutes later the Hostess who had seated me came to the table and informed my that my waitress was very concerned that I knew what I was ordering. I was forced to explain that I had never had Steak Tartare but I knew what it was and that I was taking the opportunity to try it especially since it was on an expense account. These two young women kept a very close eye on me while I ate.

Not bad, I would probably order it again in a quality restaurant if some one else was picking up the tab.

I like grass fed Buffalo (American Bison). When properly cooked it is great and marginally better for you than grain fed beef.

I like grass fed Buffalo (American Bison). When properly cooked it is great and marginally better for you than grain fed beef.

#141 | Posted by Cowboy at 2009-10-06 06:16 AM

I had my first grass fed cut of beef not too long ago; oh man, was it goood!

#142 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

We have a place here in West Michigan where it is available.

Check it out on the web and you can find several places where it is available locally almost anywhere you live.

By the way

'cooked properly' simply means at a slightly lower temp and nor more than medium.

The fat content is too low to accomodate well done.

So am I gonna' be rolling the 'ol dice for lunch or just spinning the wheel?

My 10th grade biology teacher told me that people get ecoli from not cooking their ground beef all the way through. If one cooks their ground beef so that there isn't even a little pink in the middle they eliminate their chance of getting ecoli. Ultimately, the amount of risk you take depends on how well you cook your beef.

"My 10th grade biology teacher told me that people get ecoli from not cooking their ground beef all the way through. "

Well thanks for that report, Joe. It's always nice when young people still in school can contribute. Any plans for after high school? College? Want to be a lawyer, by any chance?

Ultimately, the amount of risk you take depends on how well you cook your beef.

The source of the beef is a big factor, too. If you grind your own beef, a rare hamburger is as safe as a rare steak.

See: Steak Tartare

Fast Food Nation: The Dark Side of the All-American Meal, should be required reading for all Americans.

Logic train...

Large brain capacity + Opposable thumbs + Tool making ability + Top of food chain =
14 oz Bloody rare Ribeye, baked potatoe smothered in butter and bacon bits, fresh house salad and a chilled dark microbrew

Any questions?

Best Beef in the world... Montanan and Bolivian

I'd settle in Bolivia, but mi espaniola's not so bueno, and Montana microbrews ROCK

A major cause of E.coli is that the cattle are on a grain (corn) based diet. Feedlot grain makes the animals more acidic, which in turn makes the E. coli more acid-resistant so that the acids in our stomachs can't combat the E.coli bacteria. If you want to have safer meat, you need to eat grassfed meat. I write a blog about this (www.kolfoods.blogspot.com) and started a kosher, grass-fed meat business (www.kolfoods.com).

Here is a study by Cornell University about this very issue:

Russell, J. B., F. Diez-Gonzalez, and G. N. Jarvis. "Potential Effect of Cattle Diets on the Transmission of Pathogenic Escherichia Coli to Humans" Microbes Infect 2, no. 1 (2000): 45-53.