Finally heads are coming out of butts.

It's about time some common sence was used, let's hope they don't buckle down the road.

10 Dems voted for Schumer's PO amendment, more than was expected.

But Baucus is wrong that he has to put up a Bill that will garner 60 votes, or he would have voted for it.

He only has to put up a Bill that will get 51 votes, if all the 60 Dems will vote to close debate, then vote their conscious (see: self-interest) on the Bill itself.

Which shouldn't be a problem if they wish to remain in the Party.

Mike Moore has a great clip here:

Liberal filmmaker Michael Moore mocked "whiny" Democrats for not having the spine or courage to fight Republicans for a public option on health care. Mimicking a whiny voice for Democrats, Moore said he "admired" Republicans because at least they had "the courage of their convictions":

WATCH:

A public option is a must. We pay taxes so the government can provide us with basic needs. What is more basic than health care? The right to live.

We are the only industrialized nation that continues to put insurance companies' profits over the lives of our citizens.

My Senator was among those five voting no. So today I called Bill Nelson and let him know what I thought of that. I'd suggest anyone else who wants to see health care become affordable in U.S. do the same. The other Democrats voting no were the committee chairman Sen. Max Baucus (Montana), Sen. Kent Conrad (North Dakota), Blanche Lincoln (Arkansas), and Thomas R. Carper (Delaware). Speak now while your voice still matters.

These are the lies that are fueling the trouble.

There are many things we could do to help Doctors and other providers control costs that does not include a Public Option.

Sorry to tell yuo this, but Public Option does not mean it's free. Did you think you were going to get free health care?

Democrats who voted against public option took $19 million from healthcare industry

Moore said he "admired" Republicans because at least they had "the courage of their convictions":

#3 | Posted by Corky

Wow, I was almost convinced that he had some integrity....

Almost!

He's good at manipulating.

#5 | Posted by Eddie at 2009-09-30 02:34 PM | Reply | Flag: Thought Public Option was free health care until 10 minutes ago.

Don't get me wrong. Some of these people may be paid off, some not, but the appearance of a conflict is substantial.

#6 | Posted by Corky

Corky!

For every 1 Congressman (including Senate), there are 9 lobbyist from the health care industry!!!

I'm not sure of the breakdown of what percentage represent the Insurance Industry and what percentage represent Providers, Patients, etc.

How many lobbyist represent me? The patient?

You are doing enough to defeat your own self-interests, Eddie. I doubt you need help.

We have met the enemy and he is us. Government of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations. Apparently we will continue giving 30% of our health care dollars to insurance execs who will devote a goodly part of those billions to increasing their piece of the pie. What we really need is a constitutional convention where we increase the number of congress to 5000 and the number of senators to 1000. That at least would dilute the power of these backwoods rural assholes from wagging the dog in return for disgraceful bribes from business.

#8 | Posted by Corky at 2009-09-30 02:36 PM | Reply | Flag: Sour Grapes

Take your lumps, Corky.

The Libs are beginning to realize that perhaps it's not a good idea after all.

Like a teenager growing up and finally realizing that his Dad really is a smart guy after all.

Apparently we will continue giving 30% of our health care dollars to insurance execs ....
#11 | Posted by CaptainNemo

It doesn't mean that at all. The true Conservative plan will cause insurance companies to streamline and be smarter at what they do.

-Like a teenager growing up and finally realizing that his Dad really is a smart guy after all.

And when do you expect this will occur in your life, Eddie?

-The true Conservative plan

Locked up in the true conservative vault, along with the phantom GOP Bill before Congress.

You are doing enough to defeat your own self-interests, Eddie. I doubt you need help.

#10 | Posted by Corky

Wow, what did I do? You're starting in with the insults so early. You certainly don't lose gracefully, do you?

-The true Conservative plan

Locked up in the true conservative vault, along with the phantom GOP Bill before Congress.

#15 | Posted by Corky

Typical!

Not paying attention, are you?

** Both Hands on ears, looking at the floor, screaming **

THERE IS NO CONSERVATIVE PLAN
THERE IS NO CONSERVATIVE PLAN
THERE IS NO CONSERVATIVE PLAN
THERE IS NO CONSERVATIVE PLAN
THERE IS NO CONSERVATIVE PLAN
THERE IS NO CONSERVATIVE PLAN

I agree with rush

this is all a smokescreen
if they decide not to use the nuclear option they will put it in a bill that will go after tarp bonuses...
and then if THAT doesnt work out...its going to be 'nuked'
I also agree with him when he says there is nothing here about health care reform..
its all about power

"the road to serfdom is paved with obamacare"

and remember when it comes to the house...they will do JUST what they did with 'cap and crap'....make sure the dems most on the ropes dont have to vote for it but make sure it passes.

one more day closer to november 2, 2010

Corky's already started the bickering. She's lost.

ALSO

harry reid just cancelled the october break..

why??

to get this horseshit out and get on with enslaving the american people

#17 | Posted by Eddie at 2009-09-30 02:48 PM | Reply | Flag: Cannot supply link to GOP Health Care Bill before Congress..... because it does not exist.

one more day closer to november 2, 2010

#18 | Posted by afkabl2

I'm with you! Change we NEED!!!

#17 | Posted by Eddie at 2009-09-30 02:48 PM | Reply | Flag: Cannot supply link to GOP Health Care Bill before Congress..... because it does not exist.

#21 | Posted by Corky

I didn't know they did that. Two bills at the same time?

No Eddie. I'm not expecting free health insurance. But I would like the option to pay for health insurance. But with skin cancer and high cholesterol I can't find an insurance company that wants to take "the risk" to insure me. I'm a professional whose industry is experiencing massive layoffs and so I'm out of work. I'm paying the COBRA (a huge amount of money for me) but it runs out in June. Eddie, what am I suppose to do?

We could lose the DR gerbil to a heart attack wasting bandwidth on all the things you don't know, Eddie.

The GNOP decided months ago to promise an actual Bill, but never produce one.

Better not to show they haven't a clue as far as solutions go, and just try to bring down the President instead.

I called Nelson's office 7 times before I finally got other than a busy signal. Then I was on hold for about 15 minutes before a human answered. I told them to please ask Senator Nelson to convince the rest of the Democrats than they should invite the Republican Senators to go take a long piss in the Potomic while the adults got on with passing a real health car bill with a strong public option.

Senator Nelson's number is 202-224-5274. Call today!!!

I also asked them where I could contribute to airing a series of ads against Nelson like the ones being aired against Senator Backus.

Corky,

Obama's plan is doing much more for the Insurance Companies than the Republicans are.

No Eddie, but Baucus' version that gives half a trillion dollars to health care companies in the form of subsidies without providing any mechanism to control costs, such as a robust public option, IS a giveaway to insurers, though not as much as Republicans who would prefer to privatize Medicare and SS would give them.

I think something will pass. Whatever it is will entrench the insurance companies and the rest of the health care industry even deeper. It'll be more expensive and the quality will worsen.

Health care has become unaffordable and the industry is starting to hurt. This is a bailout.

I won't hesitate to be telling liberals "I told you so."

It's good to see Ray being optimistic for a change, lmao!

It's only a bailout without a public option.

And if there is no cost control, there can be no legitimate mandate to puchase it.

Health care has become unaffordable and the industry is starting to hurt. This is a bailout.

You mean they are going bankrupt?

It is just a money give away thanks to our democratic party and administration.

I think something will pass. Whatever it is will entrench the insurance companies and the rest of the health care industry even deeper. It'll be more expensive and the quality will worsen.

Ray, that's why you should fight for a public option. If the insurance companies can do better then I'll gladly buy their insurance.

I'm paying the COBRA (a huge amount of money for me) but it runs out in June. Eddie, what am I suppose to do?

#24 | Posted by hope4hope

If you have been like 90% of Americans, you've been brainwashed into thinking that either the company you work for or the government is required to provide you healthcare! When did this happen?

Over the last 3 to 4 decades, companies have been using the paying of health care premiums for employees and their families as a retention policy. It worked for a while. Now, it doesn't work anymore and it's getting costly to the point where the company will not pay for the family anymore.

Another phenomenon... Since health care was free to the employee/patient, the patient stopped shopping around, stopped questioning the bill, and stopped caring him/herself. The natural thing to happen was that Providers got careless with billing and started even billing the insurance company directly. Cost went up--quicker than inflation.

We are babes in the woods. Companies are abandoning us and leaving us to fend for our own health now. We don't know what to do because it's far too complicated and IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE FREE!!! I don't mean to insult you, but everyone in the country is in the same boat as you, one month away from having to find new insurance.

If you don't have any preexisting conditions, you can go with a high deductible plan and a Health Savings Account.

I'll give you an example. I have high blood pressure and high cholesterol (hereditary). I'm on 4 medications that cost $35/month. If I went with an old-school 100% policy, it would cost me $550 a month with a $10 co-pay, 100% covered up to $5 million. Instead, I am with Assurant Health (in Colorado), a high deductible plan of $3500 a year and no drug coverage and they pay for a yearly exam and labs -- cost per month, $98.

So, the most I'll pay out in a year is $4700.

On the other old-school plan, I pay out $6600.

Now, here's the thing. On my plan, if I don't get sick (and I lose 40 lbs to get off the meds), I save $3500 a year. The other plan goes to the insurance company!!

PLUS! If I start contributing the $3500 a year to a Health Savings Account, I write that off on my taxes (as you would an IRA)

No Eddie, but Baucus' version that gives half a trillion dollars to health care companies in the form of subsidies ....

#28 | Posted by Corky

Yeah, I don't like this either!

If the Republicans don't answer to the will of the people, they'll be out too.

#30 | Posted by Corky

It's only a bailout without a public option.

As I said, this is an insurance company bailout. Any form of mandated insurance, forces the healthy uninsured to take out private insurance. The unhealthy can be transferred to Medicaid or Medicare. In essence, it enlarges the Ponzi Scheme.

And if there is no cost control, there can be no legitimate mandate to puchase it.

There will be cost control in the form of price controls and rationing. Whatever passes will go from bad to worse than bad.

I will be telling you "I told you so." Sucker.

It's good to see Ray being optimistic for a change, lmao!

#30 | Posted by Corky

Oh, I see. You are so mixed up in the insults that you havn't really comprehended anything that the Right wants.

Corky, some advise. Stop getting your news from Maddow and Obermann. I've watched them and they are nothing but the anti-Glenn Beck. No news, just rhetoric.

The real Conservatives are people like me. We want to cust costs and we are already doing it.

My doctor is a really good GP, knowing that I must pay for health care myself, will get me to the labs that won't rip me off and sends me to specialist who are in practice to treat patients and not just make money.

As I said, this is an insurance company bailout. Any form of mandated insurance, forces the healthy uninsured to take out private insurance. The unhealthy can be transferred to Medicaid or Medicare. In essence, it enlarges the Ponzi Scheme.

#35 | Posted by Ray

Thanks Ray, to the point!

Scary, isn't it?

If you have been like 90% of Americans, you've been brainwashed into thinking that either the company you work for or the government is required to provide you healthcare! When did this happen?

I've gone to multiple insurance companies on my own and they won't let me buy a policy. I want to pay.

Ray, that's why you should fight for a public option. If the insurance companies can do better then I'll gladly buy their insurance.
#32 | Posted by hope4hope

Are you for real? I'm one of the healthy uninsured. I hope to keep it that way.

Besides, under this scheme, if the insurance companies do better, the insured will do worse.

We pay taxes so the government can provide us with basic needs.

This is a perfect example of the difference in our philosophies. I work so I can provide myself with basic needs.

I've gone to multiple insurance companies on my own and they won't let me buy a policy. I want to pay.

#38 | Posted by hope4hope

Do you have preexisting conditions?

Scary, isn't it?

Eddie, what's really scary is that government fucks up everything it touches, yet both conservatives and liberals keep coming back for more. I have no hope for the future of this country.

-I will be telling you "I told you so." Sucker.

About the time the stock market hits 1400, eh?

What a maroon!!

I didn't know they did that. Two bills at the same time?

#23 | Posted by Eddie at

try about 5 at once

I believe they thought that we wouldnt be paying attention but the month of august proved that wrong..

and ALSO
obama is an incompetent hack as an executive AS WE CALLED IT DURING THE CAMPAIGN...

I've gone to multiple insurance companies on my own and they won't let me buy a policy. I want to pay.

#38 | Posted by hope4hope

From the Dept of Labor website:

Some COBRA plans allow participants and beneficiaries to convert group health coverage to an individual policy. If this option is generally available from the plan, a qualified beneficiary who pays for COBRA coverage must be given the option of converting to an individual policy at the end of the COBRA continuation coverage period. The option must be given to enroll in a conversion health plan within 180 days before COBRA coverage ends. The premium for a conversion policy may be more expensive than the premium of a group plan, and the conversion policy may provide a lower level of coverage. The conversion option, however, is not available if the beneficiary ends COBRA coverage before reaching the end of the maximum period of COBRA coverage.

-I will be telling you "I told you so." Sucker.
About the time the stock market hits 1400, eh?
What a maroon!!
#43 | Posted by Corky

Yes, and the stock market too. This depression is just getting warmed up.

Thanks, Redman. I am hoping that the conversion policy will work out. (higher price, lower level of coverage and all) Yes Eddie I do have preexisting - my cholesterol (like yours, it's a family condition)

But I'd rather have my government doing what all the other industrialized nations' governments are doing - ensuring that their citizens have affordable access to health care.

I don't want government to step in unless it is a basic need of life. What is more basic than health care?

The beauty is -- it's a public option -- if you don't want it, don't opt for it.

A public option is a must. We pay taxes so the government can provide us with basic needs. What is more basic than health care? The right to live.

#4 | Posted by hope4hope at 2009-09-30 02:22 PM | Reply | Flag : dumbass

The beauty is -- it's a public option -- if you don't want it, don't opt for it.

#47 | Posted by hope4hope at 2009-09-30 04:35 PM | Reply | Flag: Moronic, private industry competing with subsidized public option, you obviously are a high school dropout.

Scary, isn't it?

Eddie, what's really scary is that government fucks up everything it touches, yet both conservatives and liberals keep coming back for more. I have no hope for the future of this country.

#42 | Posted by Ray

I know and it saddens me. We are going to have to go through what Europe went through and it will take a war and 60 years of blaming another country (China) to come out of it. HEY! There's always Argentina!

-I will be telling you "I told you so." Sucker.

About the time the stock market hits 1400, eh?

What a maroon!!

#43 | Posted by Corky

Ray, do you and Corky have an inside joke going?

"A public option is a must. We pay taxes so the government can provide us with basic needs. What is more basic than health care? The right to live."

That's not why we have a government. Basic Needs? That's your responsibility. We have a government to "ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessing of liberty...".

I don't see basic needs anywhere in there. General welfare is debatable when it comes to health care, but I'm sure that phrase is intentionally vague. No where in there do I see "General Welfare" as mandating a government run health insurance program. If you WANT a public option, then push for it and put in some arguments, but suggesting that the government is there is provide our basic needs is baseless. Is the government our parent?

#47 | Posted by hope4hope at 2009-09-30 04:35 PM | Reply | Flag: Moronic, private industry competing with subsidized public option, you obviously are a high school dropout.

He probably graduated. That's what government schools are turning out these days.

We pay taxes so the government can provide us with basic needs. What is more basic than health care?

Food

When is Uncle Sugar going to start footing my grocery bill?

But I'd rather have my government doing what all the other industrialized nations' governments are doing - ensuring that their citizens have affordable access to health care.

#47 | Posted by hope4hope

And, like I said before, we already have that.

We are spoiled children waiting for our free healthcare to come back. It's gone! Corporations are not going to do it anymore.

You own a car to get around? You can afford good, quality Health care.

If you can't afford a car, you qualify for Medicaid.

The Democrats need to face primary challenges, we were given in the last election an opportunity to run this Country, if we don't the public will be correct to change the members of the Congress. The problem that the public truly faces is should they go back to the Republicans, who have proven in the last 8 years that they are incapable to rule....Any Independents out there???????

Ray, do you and Corky have an inside joke going?

#51 | Posted by Eddie

When the stock market was in free fall, I predicted that the Dow would bottom at 90%, as it did in 1932, from its high of 14000. Corky is under the illusion that the economy recovered and the Dow bottomed at 8,000 or about there.

Note. The crash of 29 retraced 50% of its high on the way down. It hit bottom three years from the top. Actually, there is a plausible chance of something worse than 1400 - a systemic crash. These things can't be timed with a high degree of confidence. When P/E ratios are upward of ten times normal because of declining corporate profits, one knows this market is an illusion.

Grassley offered an amendment he said was designed to cut fraud in health care programs for the low-income. It would have required applicants to present a government-issued ID when applying for Medicaid or the children's health care program.

is it asking to much to get a photo i.d. for free insurance? i would take a full album for free insurance.

When P/E ratios are upward of ten times normal because of declining corporate profits, one knows this market is an illusion.

#57 | Posted by Ray

I agree with you 100%. I think we could see another free fall.

But at honest P/E's, where do you see the DOW?

We are spoiled children waiting for our free healthcare to come back. It's gone! Corporations are not going to do it anymore.

I agree. Corporations should not bear this burden. And, Eddie, I don't mind paying for it. I just want my government to help make it affordable and accessible.

If you WANT a public option, then push for it and put in some arguments, but suggesting that the government is there is provide our basic needs is baseless. Is the government our parent?

I do think it falls under general welfare. Government helps with roads, libraries and countless other public needs. Why not health care?

But at honest P/E's, where do you see the DOW?
#59 | Posted by Eddie

I haven't done the math. In this economy, the stock market is no place to be. Falls tend to overshoot normal P/Es.

A public option is a must. We pay taxes so the government can provide us with basic needs. What is more basic than health care? The right to live.

We are the only industrialized nation that continues to put insurance companies' profits over the lives of our citizens.

#4 | Posted by hope4hope at 2009-09-30 02:22 PM

Food is a basic need, clothing is a basic need, a roof over your head is a basic need, so is something to drive. A toilet is a basic need, so is a bathtub or a shower stall. Heat is a basic need if you live in a cold climate part of the country.

You're an idiot! Probably a sloth too.

"#17 | Posted by Eddie at 2009-09-30 02:48 PM | Reply | Flag: Cannot supply link to GOP Health Care Bill before Congress..... because it does not exist.
#21 | Posted by Corky"

"I didn't know they did that. Two bills at the same time?
#23 | Posted by Eddie"

Fuck, Eddie, are you really that stupid? Oh yeah, I remember, you are. Carry on.

"My doctor is a really good GP, knowing that I must pay for health care myself, will get me to the labs that won't rip me off and sends me to specialist who are in practice to treat patients and not just make money.

#36 | Posted by Eddie"

I hope that "specialist" is a psychiatrist, because you need one, Eddie.

Eddie does not have insurance??? Bwahahahahahaha

Food is a basic need, clothing is a basic need, a roof over your head is a basic need, so is something to drive. A toilet is a basic need, so is a bathtub or a shower stall. Heat is a basic need if you live in a cold climate part of the country.

I'm talking about roads, public buildings, water - I think with the U.S. government's historic role in helping to make these things readily available to citizens - a public health care option fits in nicely.

- a public health care option fits in nicely.

oh dear apparently you didn't get the teabagger memo.

That will lead directly to Socialism. We couldn't have that even if it might save 22,000 lives a year.

I think with the U.S. government's historic role in helping to make these things readily available to citizens - a public health care option fits in nicely.

Isn't democracy great. It replaces working to pay for the things you want for voting for the things you want. It's free for the asking.

Isn't democracy great. It replaces working to pay for the things you want for voting for the things you want. It's free for the asking.

No Ray - just as we pay for the water we us - those who choose to use the public option would pay for it.

Sorry typo above, should read water we use.

Sorry to tell yuo this, but Public Option does not mean it's free. Did you think you were going to get free health care?

#5 | Posted by Eddie at 2009-09-30 02:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

???

Who is saying that? NOBODY! It's going to a bigger pool of insured and this reduces risk and overall cost of the pool thereby, lowering costs. OMG...SOCIALSIM!!!!!

*ISM

Quote from aflakabibble, "I agree with Rush". Who's Rush? You mean the rock band. With Beck being in the news so much, I thought all the pubbies were turning to drugs and rock n roll.

No Eddie. I'm not expecting free health insurance. But I would like the option to pay for health insurance. But with skin cancer and high cholesterol I can't find an insurance company that wants to take "the risk" to insure me. I'm a professional whose industry is experiencing massive layoffs and so I'm out of work. I'm paying the COBRA (a huge amount of money for me) but it runs out in June. Eddie, what am I suppose to do?

#24 | Posted by hope4hope at 2009-

too bad we cant hear more reasoned questions and comments from the left.
dems are going to force this down our throats regardless.

Ray, that's why you should fight for a public option. If the insurance companies can do better then I'll gladly buy their insurance.

#32 | Posted by hope4hope at 2009-09-30

here is the fundamental disagreement.
you think that govt can solve it and eddie and I dont believe for a nanosecond that they can..( if I can speak for eddie)

republicans and I believe that reform doesnt have to mean a complete govt takeover.

The Democrats need to face primary challenges, we were given in the last election an opportunity to run this Country, if we don't the public will be correct to change the members of the Congress. The problem that the public truly faces is should they go back to the Republicans, who have proven in the last 8 years that they are incapable to rule....Any Independents out there???????

#56 | Posted by celisary at 2009-09-30

HOLY SHIT
whats happening here...even celisary is talking like a normal person

HEY look at those pigs flying outside the window..LOL

AFKABL2 -- All of the other industrial nations have concluded that without government intervention, their citizens will not get the health care they need. The insurance companies have had years to find a better way. Instead they cherry pick healthy people and leave the sick to die.

But a public option is not a "complete govt takeover" - it is an option.

Racists.

#17 | Posted by Eddie at 2009-09-30 02:48 PM | Reply | Flag: Cannot supply link to GOP Health Care Bill before Congress..... because it does not exist.
#21 | Posted by Corky

insurance companies have had years to find a better way

The govt has had how many years to get medicare right? Instead it is 80 Trillion in the hole, and acording to Obama frought with fraud. Good track record.

"Instead it is 80 Trillion in the hole"

That's like saying you're $300,000 in the hole, because you have 29 years left on your $100,000 mortgage.

"The govt has had how many years to get medicare right? Instead..."

Another idiot who confuses efficiency with funding.

And Medicare fraud should be a capital offense, as should wartime fraud.

That's like saying you're $300,000 in the hole, because you have 29 years left on your $100,000 mortgage.

#85 | Posted by Danforth
No where near the same. maybe if I did not have a job, or was like the avg lib on goberment welfare then that would be true. IE no way to earn the money to pay the debt.

#87 | Posted by Danforth
That is just a dumb ass statement. How much it costs is a huge part. How much did they say medicare would cost when it was created? How much did it actually cost. That is the real problem with libs, they are never judged on results. Just it was the feel good thing to do, and you just did not throw enough money at it.

"How much it costs is a huge part."

Good point.

And in the last decade, health costs have risen 131%.

Medicare taxes have risen exactly...ZERO percent.

Just to see how tethered you are to reality...do you think that's sensible?

"No where near the same."

Of course it is. They're exactly the same: you're projecting out costs over time in both examples.

Or do you not understand the definitions of the terms?

"IE no way to earn the money to pay the debt."

So are you actually pretending that the Medicare tax will bring in NO money in the future?

Talk about a dumbass....

Just to see how tethered you are to reality...do you think that's sensible?

#92 | Posted by Danforth
Not at all. That is why the govt does not belong in the business, they will screw it up. You just made my point for me. Now they just want to screw it up on a much larger scale.

So are you actually pretending that the Medicare tax will bring in NO money in the future?

Talk about a dumbass....

#94 | Posted by Danforth
No, but I am predicting that like a lib on welfare, they will not be able to get enough money. See the difference, or do you just have you head so far up O's ass you can't see that the govt is doing a bad job?

We know we have had years to fix edumacations, but if they would just give us more money

We know we have had years to fix SS, but if they would just give us more money

We know we have had years to fix Medicare, but if they would just give us more money

We know it has only been 6 years of Obamacare, but if they would just give us more money

I am starting to see a theme..

The govt has had how many years to get medicare right? Instead it is 80 Trillion in the hole, and acording to Obama frought with fraud. Good track record.

Medicare is a very popular program. Fraud is a problem in every public program or private business for that matter. Before Medicare thousands of elderly were getting little medical treatment and living a much lower quality of life. Unless they had money, they left the world little dignity.

What's the beef with edumacashun anyways?? I would say a good portion of it is kids just do not want to learn. You can throw BILLIONS at the skool seestems and Johnny ain't gonna lern chit. Git Dee Keds enthused for lerneen and You mite kan git samwares.

Larry

pretty funny, a cat names himself "freechoice" then infests the thread with right wing site links...

what's next?

newsmax??

"See the difference, or do you just have you head so far up O's ass you can't see that the govt is doing a bad job?"

Hey, shithead, Republicans were in charge for most of the decade where Medicare taxes didn't rise a penny. But you're obviously one of those morons who believes in underfunding something that works, just so you can claim it doesn't.

#98 | POSTED BY FREECHOICE AT 2009-10-01 05:47 PM

Just a few facts for ya freechoice...

1. Public schools educate 90% of ALL AMERICAN students, regardless of handicap or poverty level....95% before 1990. Private schools handpick their students by ability and ability to pay.

What do you suggest for the 90%?

Let me guess:
Universal education is the most corroding and disintegrating poison that liberalism has ever invented for its own destruction.
Adolf Hitler

2. Social Security is still solvent. It would be more so if neocons lrepugs would not have RAIDED it for their own purposes....read up on how it's surplus has been regularly used....

3. Medicare provides it's services at a 30% less overhead than private healthcare.....and you just cannot spin that son. The VA also does well when fully funded by congress and not privatized as was done at Walter Reed>see the latest scandal, and medicaid provides services to special needs people and their children who could not otherwise afford the costly services their handicaps require....

but you don't give a shit about them, eh?

4. Look up the word PROJECTION.....it's what some disengenuous, factless people attempt to use to justify their otherwise unjustifiable positions....

have a nice evening

4.

"That is why the govt does not belong in the business, they will screw it up"

Ahhhh...the Republican mantra....

here is the fundamental disagreement.

republicans and I believe that reform doesnt have to mean a complete govt takeover.

#76 | POSTED BY AFKABL2 AT 2009-10-01 11:18 AM

And we believe that without a public option, there is no freechoice

and we have already seen how private, for profit corporations feel about it....they will continue to cherrypick consumers, jettison those they feel are too expensive to treat, increase costs over and above what is necessary, pass any costs of treatment of those with no coverage to us, charge 30% MORE for services than if they have to BARGAIN for those prices....

form a more perfect UNION=collectively bargain

promote the general welfare=for healthcare

i don't see the problem....if you think a public OPTION would result in the TAKEOVER of all those global healthcare/pharma corps....why has that not occurred already, since the usa is the ONLY remaining country NOT to offer it??

i call bullshit on your option FEAR

and why would you place giant global healthcare/pharma above your fellow citizens anyway??

do tell?

Excessive caps, hitler references, mindless C&Ps -- yep -- this thread has been woked! (tm)manypaths

(I know in this sentence the newly defined 'woked' is a little bit outside the proper context, but I couldn't wait to use it)

Ah, here's my lil stalker buddy now.....

LOL

sorry goatBOY, I prefer honest debate, not infantile trolleyboys like yourself....

sorry goatBOY, I prefer honest debate, not infantile trolleyboys like yourself....

I like it, keep up the good work.

I like it, keep up the good work.

#108 | Posted by moneywar at 2009-10-01 07:21 PM | Reply | Flag: Easily impressed. Still thinks 8 track is cool, too

sorry goatBOY, I prefer honest debate, not infantile trolleyboys like yourself....

#107 | Posted by woke at 2009-10-01 07:19 PM | Reply | Flag: thinks name calling, spamming, hitler references, excessive caps, and screenfuls of C&Ps is "honest debate"

Let's hope the dem voters who put these people in office remember them the next election--I'd rather see a republican in office that these people. If they vote against the will of the electorate, they should be replaced. Baucus received over 3 million from the health care industry---he isn't a democrat, he is an insurance rep. When he gets his ass thrown out of office, he'll come back as a lobbyist for Aetna