Insurance companies are the enemy of America, not Obama.

I hear bitch crickets...

*chirp*

*chirp*

For something really entertaining, go check out the comments by the mouth-breathing leftist shit over at Kos.

Gawd, they're pissed.

This was as close as they'll ever get to fucking our country up, and I don't think they're gonna pull it off.

Too bad, so sad :)

Thank Christ.

Fucking bastards don't want to do what is best for America. They are low life scumbags deluxe. They are the stain on the fabric of America. Government failing to take care of its citizenry. To those opposed to the Public Option I say You hate Your fellow citizenry.

Larry

Oh and Jak You tell Me how the Private Sector is so great when they reject Your application for health insurance EVERY single one of the companies that I applied to rejected Me. These fucking insurance companies are scumbags. I don't understand how You can't see it. Of course You believe in corporate America so Your mind is all fucked up. I am sorry but the Government must do their job but they aren't doing it. Because of greedy politicians and the insurance companies bribing them to keep status quo. It's horseshit is what it is. They aren't worth a pocket to piss in nor boots to pour it out of. Insurance Companies are scum.

Larry

Larry, they still need to reform the insurance companies and I hope they do.

Larry, they still need to reform the insurance companies and I hope they do.

Posted by wisgod at 2009-09-29 06:23 PM | Reply

The Government isn't doing the jobs they are supp0osed to be doing and that is taking care of their fellow citizenry. The Insurance Companies are pond scum and their congressional whores too. They are all rotten to the very core. I still do not see how anyone that opposes the Government option can look their fellow citizenry in the faces and declare that they love them. They can't. They don't love their fellow Americans they love the all mighty dollar aqnd that is it. Thems the facts jack.

Larry

"Opponents said a public option would drive private insurers out of business and amount to a government takeover."

And I guess they think that's why it's a good idea to put insurance company profits over Americans' health.

Baby steps. Portability, tort reform, remove the requirement for the employee to purchase Health Insurance from the Employer, etc.

"Thems the facts jack"

Who's Jack? :)

Baby steps. Portability, tort reform, remove the requirement for the employee to purchase Health Insurance from the Employer, etc.

Posted by wisgod at 2009-09-29 06:38 PM | Reply

That's a laugh and a half for people like Me who can't even fucking get health insurance. What about us?? Hell if I had a whole shitload of money I still could not be covered. This whole thing is a slam to the average Americans. They don't give a shit.

Larry

No clue Lisa. I don't know what WisGod's real name is and I am not interested. Just a saying is all.

Larry

Larry, I'm not trying to be a dick, but I'd start with blaming the State of KS. We, in Wisconsin have provisions for people like you. We know know how to take care of our own, ain't that so, Lisa? Remember Badger Care?

Don't worry though I wouldn't take the Government Option anyways. I ain't gonna take a chance on Eberly paying not one red cent to cover My ass for health care. I'll fucking die first.

Larry

Minus 1 know. OK Danforth?

Go Insurance Companies!!!!

Insurance Companies are Gods!!!

Go Insurance Companies!!!!

You Win Again!!!!

Go Insurance Companies!!!

Keep charging us whatever you fucking want!!!!

It's the American Way!!!!

Profits Fuckers Profits!!!!

Go Insurane Companies!!!!

(That's the Republicans cheer)

"Baby steps. Portability, tort reform, remove the requirement for the employee to purchase Health Insurance from the Employer"

How do those address the #1 problem: medical inflation...?

"Minus 1 know. OK Danforth?"

What does it matter, as long as you aren't doing it while insulting someone else's intelligence? Everyone makes mistakes. BFD.

I still like my idea for the Public Option.

Public Option only offers basic coverage.

All additions to that coverage be bought from private firms.

The Feds could be VARs for the industry. Take a cut to help with costs and still have a thriving private industry.

But that makes too much fucking sense so I'll just go smoke some pot now and forget about it.

How do those address the #1 problem: medical inflation...?
Posted by Danforth

Overhauling nothing more than the Doctors malpractice Liability would have an impact. That's why I started out with "baby steps". There are smarter people on both sides of the aisle that can add to my list with changes that would impact the costs to end users.

There are smarter people on both sides of the aisle that can add to my list with changes that would impact the costs to end users.

Insurance salesmen.

Scum of the fucking earth.

This was as close as they'll ever get to fucking our country up, and I don't think they're gonna pull it off.

#2 | Posted by Jak_Se_Mao

The destruction of this great country by the corporatists is now almost complete. I hope your children enjoy working for serf wages at the company store.

Overhauling nothing more than the Doctors malpractice Liability would have an impact. That's why I started out with "baby steps". There are smarter people on both sides of the aisle that can add to my list with changes that would impact the costs to end users.

Posted by wisgod at 2009-09-29 06:54 PM | Reply

Another way You fuck the average American. Yeah let's limit the money(Punishment) for the Doctors fuck ups. Yeah let's protect those god damned bastards who injure patients by their neglect. Tort Reform is great until it happens to Your own.

Larry

"Overhauling nothing more than the Doctors malpractice Liability would have an impact."

How much, do you think? I wish I could believe it would be a lot, but they have tort reform in Texas and it barely budged rates a point.

Insurance salesmen.

Scum of the fucking earth.

#20 | Posted by Manypaths

Agreed. But at least I can kick a Car Insurance salesman in the vagina. I don't have that luxury at work were the plan is picked by the same guy who employees and pays me.

Tort Reform is great until it happens to Your own.

Larry

#22 | Posted by LarryMohr

Do you really think whether a Doctor pays for it or is provided it under a tort reform plan is going to make him/her a better cutter? Come on...

It's the American Way!!!!

Profits Fuckers Profits!!!!

Fuckin' A Racecar, mouthbreather :)

America 1

Crypto-Socialist Shit 0

Now where's that "cap and trade" bullshit?

Agreed. But at least I can kick a Car Insurance salesman in the vagina. I don't have that luxury at work were the plan is picked by the same guy who employees and pays me.

Posted by wisgod at 2009-09-29 06:59 PM | Reply

Oh so You are an insurance saleman huh??

The destruction of this great country by the corporatists is now almost complete. I hope your children enjoy working for serf wages at the company store.

LOL!

"Your journey to the Dark Side is now complete ... The hate is swelling in you now. Take your weapon. Use it. I am unarmed...."

Oh so You are an insurance saleman huh??

#27 | Posted by LarryMohr

Dick.

"The destruction of this great country by the corporatists is now almost complete. I hope your children enjoy working for serf wages at the company store."

Trust-fund rancher Pinochet hopes to continue his "dynasty".

Figures WisGod.

I'm more of a Florence Reece-type, lil Billy.

Hee hee

WisnolongerPresident.

Go Insurane Companies!!!!

(That's the Republicans cheer)

#16 | Posted by Manypaths at 2009-09-29 06:49 PM

I guess the dems cheer is to smoke, drink, eat fatty foods, sit on your ass and become overweight. Then blame Insurance Companies when they exceed their coverage or have to pay higher premiums. Of course they are the ones keeping them in business because of their unhealthy lifestyles and choices. Yet they expect the healthy repubs to pick up the slack and pay for these lazy dems?

Yeah, we've about scraped the bottom of the sack labeled argumentium ad Busheii

Democrats have the majority in the House, Senate and a boy in the big seat. But this is Jak Se Mao and WisGod's fault. Fuck I feel important. Jak, what say you?

This is hilarious...

Check these goofy motherfuckers out...

"Florence Reece"

Never heard of her. Does a good version of Sixteen Tons, eh? Post a link, fucker.

But this is Jak Se Mao and WisGod's fault. Fuck I feel important. Jak, what say you?

Obviously you are both racists.

Obviously you are both racists.

#39 | Posted by crispee_oc

Yeah, but we have Company; five committee Democrats, including Chairman Max Baucus.

You've never heard of Florence Reece.

Jesus Christ, what kind a hell-raising fucking Communist are you?

Yeah, but we have Company; five committee Democrats, including Chairman Max Baucus.

Racist, racist, racist, racist and the Chairman must be the hooded leader.

Racist, racist, racist, racist and the Chairman must be the hooded leader.

#42 | Posted by crispee_oc

I'm sure we'll catch hell after the Leader of the Free World, President Change returns after addressing the crisis in Copenhagen.

This is applicable to a lot of people but I'm addressing it to Larry: get off your ass and start taking care of yourself and you will be able to get health insurance and if it bothers you so much that others are still in a bind start a foundation and do something about it then start using the old shoe leather to get donations for your foundation but LEAVE THE FRIGGING GOVERNMENT OUTTA IT!!!!

Thank you for your cooperation in this matter Larry and will you answer my fucking email you bib overall wearing doofus? If that pet name bothers you so much keep in mind I call my kid Phukface and he calls me Numb Nutz and we get along just fine thank you!

Hey GAS You have no bloody clue. Let's leave it at that.

Larry

l8rs

Here, Billy.

My favorite band in the world covered it also:

Take better care of yourself, Larry.

Either the unsurance company won't give you any insurance, or some bureaucrat is gonna ration whatever care you do get because you don't act European enough.

Fuck, a Dropkick Murphy's fan? That's outstanding.

Oh yeah, man...

Puro working class mick metal....

Jesus Christ, what kind a hell-raising fucking Communist are you?

www.youtube.com

Nobody wants to listen to that old gas bag. Don't know if it's any worse than your favorite, though.

Nobody wants to listen to that old gas bag

That's Florence Reece, you disrespectful old fucker.

You're not even a real Commie...

Get out of here, Tiffani

"My favorite band in the world covered it also:

www.youtube.com"

That rocked, Jacque. Unfortunately, I could only tolerate it as much as Sarah! tolerates a term of office. About half way.

Unfortunately, I could only tolerate it as much as Sarah! tolerates a term of office. About half way.

#53 | Posted by nullifidian

Much like bringing a woman to orgasm?

"Much like bringing a woman to orgasm?"

What she does after mine is her problem. Dude, get your priorities straight.

What she does after mine is her problem. Dude, get your priorities straight.

#55 | Posted by nullifidian

Well played.

Yes, that was good, null

Reminds me of a PJ O'Rourke parody I read back in the days of the National Lampoon.

He is telling women how to tell if their man is good in bed. Paraphrasing (it's been many years) "You should feel as if he leaves you something on the plate to pursue later"

What she does after mine is her problem.

So she has 55 minutes out of an hour session to take care of her problem? Hope it wasn't a hooker, they still charge the full hour.

The problem is, while many of you feared what the government would do to you...

Now your going to find out what the flip side is. What will the CEO's do to you.

I know alot of you think you can take "baby steps". Small reasonable changes to the current system to make it better. A totally reasonable ideal. The problem is, as of now, you have lost the leverage to do ANYTHING.

But since were in the mood to do something, the insurance companies will step up, write the legislation to they're liking and that shit will pass.

But since were in the mood to do something, the insurance companies will step up, write the legislation to they're liking and that shit will pass.

#59 | Posted by KnightHawk

And the Republican Majority will pass it. And pay for it with oil from the Iraq plunder. And we all live happily ever after.
The End.

I have a few questions about the public option.
I honestly do not know the answers.
Perhaps someone here does.
My questions are:

- Will the public option only take premium payments from participants like the private companies do or,
will the public option take premium payments from all Americans?
- If from all Americans, will congress level the playing field and permit private companies to do the same or,
will they operate under different rules.
- If they operate under different rules, will the courts permit the imbalance?
- If the public option only takes premium payments from participants and realizes a shortfall, will the public option go bankrupt, be taken over by the private sector or,
will the Gummit simply use public money to cover difference, thereby taking premium payments from all Americans anyway?

Hey GAS You have no bloody clue. Let's leave it at that.

#45 | Posted by LarryMohr

No Larry I have no fucking clue. Are you worst off than Stephen Hawking? Helen Keller? FDR? Me? Ask me Larry what my problems are and then ask me how the fuck did you ride unmodified big fast motorcycles, do heavy manual construction work, be a salesman, beat up people bigger than yourself, fuck some pretty amazing dames......

Stop with the excuses Larry cause I'll put my LIFELONG physical "handicaps" up against yours any fucking day!!! Your only handicap is your fucking attitude about life!!! Get with the program the only person that owes you shit is YOURSELF!!!

Gimme,

You seem as though you are surprised a liberal is all about the other guy and they don't matter. Larry, danni, Corky and the list goes on and on do would rather keep themselves out of any retort. Usually because the questions or examples that are asked of them, prove they are do as I say, not as I do folks.

Well crispee I've noticed deadening silence is a relatively common occurrence on the DR after I post my say

Thread Killer Gimme

#64

People are still shaking their heads.

It takes time to recover!

LOL

People are still shaking their heads.

It takes time to recover!

#65 | Posted by Lisa

Probably more like the pants pissing Libs are changing their pants

Where da libbies, anywho?

Where da libbies, anywho?

"Will and Grace" is on

That's cool. I tought maybe they were traveling to Chicago for the Summer Olympics.

This is a sad day for America. Those on this thread who are gloating, may someday have to eat their words when their insurance company denies their claim. Insurance companies are parasites that offer no benefit to the host---you. No insurance company ever cured anyone. No insurance complany ever created a life saving drug. That health insurance companies may be driven out of business from competition from the government is a good thing--not a negative thing. Health insurance companies are greedy middlemen sucking money out of sick people and the medical system at the same time.

This was expected of the goosestepping republicans...the dems need to get their own goosesteppers in there to vote for what the public asked for in the last election. Baucus should be booted from the party.

da bOoB still gullibly repeats "We are #37" even though the WHO who came up with this number 10 years ago said it was arbitrary and they would no longer use this ranking of health care. And this was 10 years ago!

THanks, bOoB, for proving once again that anything you post is meaningless. When you knowingly post faulty numbers, it has to be assumed the rest of yoru post is a lie, too.

Why do you lie so much? Or should the question be, "Why are you so gullible"?

What an idiot. LOL

This is a sad day for America.

Any day you post your lies is a sad day for America. LOL

hopelessly corrupt motherfuckers

There are no real liberals in power or media.

Not one.

America--the only civilized country on the planet that doesn't have Universal Health coverage for all of its citizens.

Do you have any facts to back up your assertion that America is a civilized country, or is this just more moon base nonsense?

America #37 in health care

America #50 in Longevity.

America #1 in Health expenses.

I'm going to use your oft used line, bOoB. This will give a chance for me to prove that I am right -- you always ask for proof but never provide it when asked. IOW you are a hypocrite and I'm going to prove it right now:

Link to your stats? Put up or have a big cup of STFU.

LOL

"still gullibly repeats "We are #37" even though the WHO who came up with this number 10 years ago said it was arbitrary and they would no longer use this ranking of health care. And this was 10 years ago!"

Well, since part of the rankings included costs, accessibility, and value, and the last decade has seen America's health costs rise at 4 times inflation, #37 is probably a high number.

There are no real liberals in power or media.

Michael Moore is the only one I can think of.

And maybe that guy who doodles Doonesbury.

***

Thanks, snoofy. That's one. Do you have links to the other two stats -- especially that #37? So far no one has been able to provide a link to it except the source itself. And the source (the WHO) admits it is an arbitrary number and they stopped putting out that health care ranking list in 2000.

It's funny though that idiots keep quoting it.

Infant mortality for some reason the CIA gives #1 to the country with the most deaths... so the best is #224 (Singapore). We're #180. #181 is... Cuba. :)

...#37 is probably a high number.

Probably? Unless you have any major objections, let's stay within the bounds of reality, please. If you have a link to support your claim, please post it.

"And maybe that guy who doodles Doonesbury."

Actually, a good friend of mine "doodles" Doonesbury.

Garry Trudeau writes it.

"Unless you have any major objections, let's stay within the bounds of reality, please."

Gladly.

Would you first allow that #37, 10 years ago, was at least within range?

I have never heard of the #37 rank before. I just go with CIA World Factbook. Or if I really need to debunk some of this shit (like the Representative who said the UK has three times our cancer mortality rate) then I go to the WHO.

they stopped putting out that health care ranking list in 2000. It's funny though that idiots keep quoting it.

Next you'll be telling us how "funny" it is that idiots keep quoting a holy book written 2,000 years ago. Or 5,000 years ago. Or 1,400 years ago, take your pick. :)

Actually, a good friend of mine "doodles" Doonesbury.

Garry Trudeau writes it.

Whoa, there's diff. people writing the words and doing the drawings? I never knew that!

Seems like it would be hard to get the drawing you want without at least storyboarding it, and then, you know, if you're gonna storyboard a comic strip, might as well draw it...

Next you'll be telling us how "funny" it is that idiots keep quoting a holy book written 2,000 years ago. Or 5,000 years ago. Or 1,400 years ago, take your pick. :)

Actually I have done that quite often, snoofy. But even though I am an atheist, I understand how important religion is to some people and I try to respect that and not trample it as harshly as I do other topics.

But I have indeed made clear I do not believe in the stories of the bible but agree with the some of the morals and values it teaches. I've said that many times on this blog.

Would you first allow that #37, 10 years ago, was at least within range?

Of course not. If the WHO (the people who came up with this number in 2000) says it is unreliable, how can I possibly say it is within range? Their expertise in the matter far excedes mine.

Infant mortality for some reason the CIA gives #1 to the country with the most deaths... so the best is #224 (Singapore). We're #180. #181 is... Cuba. :)

#80 | Posted by snoofy at 2009-09-29 11:02 PM | Reply | Flag

It seems infants have a better chance of survival being born in these countries than the Unitd States. I'm sure the "pro-life" people are fine with that, and are glad that Universal Health care will remain unavailable to the poorest Americans.

181 Cuba 5.82 2009 est.

182 European Union 5.72 2009 est.

183 Italy 5.51 2009 est.

184 Isle of Man 5.37 2009 est.

185 Taiwan 5.35 2009 est.

186 San Marino 5.34 2009 est.

187 Greece 5.16 2009 est.

188 Ireland 5.05 2009 est.

189 Canada 5.04 2009 est.

190 Wallis and Futuna 5.02 2009 est.

191 Monaco 5.00 2009 est.

192 New Zealand 4.92 2009 est.

193 United Kingdom 4.85 2009 est.

194 Gibraltar 4.83 2009 est.

195 Portugal 4.78 2009 est.

196 Australia 4.75 2009 est.

197 Jersey 4.73 2009 est.

198 Netherlands 4.73 2009 est.

199 Luxembourg 4.56 2009 est.

200 Guernsey 4.47 2009 est.

201 Belgium 4.44 2009 est.

202 Austria 4.42 2009 est.

203 Denmark 4.34 2009 est.

204 Korea, South 4.26 2009 est.

205 Liechtenstein 4.25 2009 est.

206 Slovenia 4.25 2009 est.

207 Israel 4.22 2009 est.

208 Spain 4.21 2009 est.

209 Switzerland 4.18 2009 est.

210 Germany 3.99 2009 est.

211 Czech Republic 3.79 2009 est.

212 Andorra 3.76 2009 est.

213 Malta 3.75 2009 est.

214 Norway 3.58 2009 est.

215 Anguilla 3.52 2009 est.

216 Finland 3.47 2009 est.

217 France 3.33 2009 est.

218 Iceland 3.23 2009 est.

219 Macau 3.22 2009 est.

220 Hong Kong 2.92 2009 est.

221 Japan 2.79 2009 est.

222 Sweden 2.75 2009 est.

223 Bermuda 2.46 2009 est.

224 Singapore 2.31 2009 est.

I don't understand the point of posting these rankings.

What do they have to do with nationalized health care? If Obamacare comes to be will we suddenly jump to #1? Is that the inference here?

"Seems like it would be hard to get the drawing you want without at least storyboarding it, and then, you know, if you're gonna storyboard a comic strip, might as well draw it..."

Garry does storyboard it, but by his own admission, isn't a very good cartoonist. My friend was a staff cartoonist for United Press Syndicate, and was chosen for this little unknown strip....

"even though the WHO who came up with this number 10 years ago said it was arbitrary"
"the WHO (the people who came up with this number in 2000) says it is unreliable"

Link?

I'm sure the "pro-life" people are fine with that, and are glad that Universal Health care will remain unavailable to the poorest Americans.

Good point Bob. But then, the hypocrisy of Christians is particularly hard to combat as their beliefs are impervious to logic.

"What do they have to do with nationalized health care? If Obamacare comes to be will we suddenly jump to #1? Is that the inference here?"

If other countries spend a smaller percentage of their GDP covering all their populace, with better health outcomes (than, say, #37), it tells us something is fundamentally wrong, and should force us to ask why and where.

What do they have to do with nationalized health care? If Obamacare comes to be will we suddenly jump to #1? Is that the inference here?

The obvious inference is that nationalized systems deliver better outcomes than ours.

Would you first allow that #37, 10 years ago, was at least within range?

#83 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-09-29 11:04 PM | Reply | Flag

The #37 doesn't make any difference---we weren't #1. I wonder what # is acceptable if we aren't #1.

While #37 may be debatable, that fact that Americans are dying while people talk about stats is sickening.

I see that France, which WAS rated as #1 is much closer to the top of the list than America. I guess that is acceptable to the prolifers and religious also. They seem to be defining whose life is worth saving and whose isn't. If you have the money--you live--no money--you die.

"even though the WHO who came up with this number 10 years ago said it was arbitrary"
"the WHO (the people who came up with this number in 2000) says it is unreliable"

Link?

It was on the same WHO website that had these rankings. So when da bOoB provides the link to validate is oft-repeated #37, you'll see it. One of the pro-national healthcare people here posted it a few weeks ago. I don't feel like looking for it.

At any rate, da bOoB has the burden of proof on his claim that we are #37.

Well said Danforth. I see you have experience talking Goatman down from the cliff.

What cliff? The one he loves to take his improbable leaps of inductive reasoning from. :)

While #37 may be debatable, that fact that Americans are dying while people talk about stats is sickening.

Obamacare is going to make us immortal? He IS the messiah!

"At any rate, da bOoB has the burden of proof on his claim that we are #37."

But you're the one who called it unreliable and arbitrary.

BB--

The US is ranked #29

??

What cliff? The one he loves to take his improbable leaps of inductive reasoning from.

da bOoB quoted the #37. He has the burden of proof that it is a valid stat. I do not have to disprove him to invalidate his claim.

Outside a legal context, "burden of proof" means that someone suggesting a new theory or stating a claim must provide evidence to support it: it is not sufficient to say "you can't disprove this." Specifically, when anyone is making a bold claim, and especially a positive claim, it is not someone else's responsibility to disprove the claim, but is rather the responsibility of the person who is making the bold claim to prove it. In short, X is not proven simply because "not X" cannot be proven (see negative proof).

The votes are in. The people have spoken. Have a nice lunch.

"da bOoB quoted the #37. He has the burden of proof that it is a valid stat"

And you claimed arbitrary and unreliable. Proof?

But you're the one who called it unreliable and arbitrary.

INdeed. He has not proven it. Therefore it is unreliable and arbitrary.

If he provides his proof that this number is valid, it is no longer unreliable and arbitrary.

That's the way things work in a debate, danforth. Sorry if you don't like the rules.

What do they have to do with nationalized health care? If Obamacare comes to be will we suddenly jump to #1? Is that the inference here?

Overly Optimistic and Unrealistic Leap Of Inductive Logic, by Goatman.

That cliff.

The obvious inference is that nationalized systems deliver better outcomes than ours.

#94 | Posted by snoofy

The obvious inference is that we have humungous people who don't take better care of themselves.

Those humungous people will still be dying young with UHC.

Isn't this about the time we start pinning the blame on the teabaggers, Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Glenn Beck Fox News and Pee Wee Herman. Did I miss anyone?

And you claimed arbitrary and unreliable. Proof?

That's like you saying santa exists I say say he doesn't. Then you ask me to prove that he doesn't go down chimneys.

The number 37 has no reliable source. Therefore I don't have to prove it is unreliable. The lack of citation does it tacitly.

I see you never were on the HS debate team or are familiar with the rules pertaining to burden of proof, dan.

I vote for Pee Wee Herman!

Goatman,

The fact that you even consider the USA ranks #37 in health care to be a "bold claim" is laughable.

I just showed you CIA World Factbook where we ranked #45 and #50 in two very basic benchmarks of health outcomes.

Unless, of course, you're questioning that #37 is too good a ranking for the USA. In which case I think we'll all concede the point.

"I see you never were on the HS debate team or are familiar with the rules pertaining to burden of proof, dan."

You made a claim based on an article that exists. YOUR claim.

I see that France, which WAS rated as #1 is much closer to the top of the list than America

#95 | Posted by Buffoon_Boob

France is #1? OMFG quick we must emulate France at all costs they eat snails and all other types of great stuff!!!

BBob, do you have a link to the article for Goatman?

You made a claim based on an article that exists. YOUR claim.

(this is too easy)

OK. Forget I made my claim. I retract it.

Now -- #37 is not a reliable number until it is cited since the person who cited it has the burden of proof.

Better, danny?

The obvious inference is that we have humungous people who don't take better care of themselves.

Okay, that made me laugh.

If our system rewarded keeping people healthy, we might have healthy people.

Our system rewards... well, it doesn't reward keeping people healthy. Among other things it rewards not getting any health care at, all and then showing up at the ER.

It's very hard for a capitalist model to find a way to reward a positive health outcome. Say you live a healthy life and never need to set foot in a hospital. Who gets rich off that?

Capitalism is ill equipped to deliver good health outcomes. More to the point, it's ill equipped to deliver good health outcomes at a lower cost than a Socialist model.

"OK. Forget I made my claim. I retract it."

So you were full of shit?

Agreed.

"#37 is not a reliable number until it is cited since the person who cited it has the burden of proof."

All in post #116.

Better, Goatman?

falty profits wrote,

"Insurance companies are the enemy of America, not Obama."

Really, because I thought doctors and hospitals were the ones who set the prices. Why do health care costs go up 8-12% every year?

I thought doctors and hospitals were the ones who set the prices.

Doctors don't negotiate shit. Doctors are simply employees, just like the pimply-faced teenager Super-Sizing you.

The private practitioner is a dying breed. S/he got WAL*MARTed out of the picture.

Capitalism is ill equipped to deliver good health outcomes. More to the point, it's ill equipped to deliver good health outcomes at a lower cost than a Socialist model.

#115 | Posted by snoofy

People in France and the EU and Canada pay over 50% in taxes for their health care to the masses.

What lower cost are you referring to?

----
Why not let everyone save their own money in a HSA and that it rolls over to the next year. They get to keep it forever and will it to their families or pets.

Let people deduct their HC insurance premiums from their taxes--paid out of their pre taxed HSA.

The HC they are proposing will crush this country under the weight of 300 million people.

It might work fine for a country that has 4 million people--

But we have open borders--a welfare state with no controls.

And if our HC is so bad--why do many, many people come here for treatment??

---

HC insurance reform is a great idea--there are several ways to accomplish lower costs for insurance and lower costs of treatment.

And without breaking the country and without stealing from the next three generations.

So #37 is a nine year old number.. Seems to me a stat this old should be presented as such.

You cite 9 YO data if you want, but says nothing about today. If you want to debate the state of health care in the year 2000, I concede the point to you.

But in honesty, the fact that this number is almost a decade old should be noted when cited. It is very misleading otherwise.

BBob, do you have a link to the article for Goatman?

#113 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-09-29 11:34 PM | Reply | Flag

For Goatman--no. But since you asked.

The obvious inference is that nationalized systems deliver better outcomes than ours.

Except that depends on the benchmarks one uses as "outcomes", doesn't it?

If my pre-ordained conclusion is that socialized health care is the cat's ass, I can cherry pick my premises to ensure that appears to be the case.

Its the same thing with those "standard of living" surveys dumbshits like yourself evoke as you make your limp-wristed attempts to defend the validity of command and control economics and the "virtues" of a bloated welfare state---as if some little racially and culturally homogenous Ginger Bread Village in the form of a Scandanavian country is the equivalent of the United States.

The bottom line is that whoring your health care decisions (and roughly 20% of your economy) out to the bureaucratic incompetence of the government fundamentally changes the relationship between the citizen and his State.

Attempting to do so is un-American, antithetical to the concept of individual liberty, and simply wrong.

That's why the American people have, once again, had to tell adherents to the idea of socialized health care to go fuck themselves.

So you were full of shit?

Agreed.

Only if you agree you are full of shit in pretending that a 9 year old statistic has any relevance today and that citing it without noting how old it is is dishonest.

Agreed?

For Goatman--no. But since you asked.

www.photius.com

HAHA -- I looked at it, bOoB. So you too agree that you are misleading people and being dishonest by citing a 9 YO statistic without telling it's age.

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems was last produced in 2000, and the WHO no longer produces such a ranking table, because of the complexity of the task.

I doubt much has changed since the posting, but if anyone has more current stats--get them out here.

LarryMohr wrote,

"The Government isn't doing the jobs they are supp0osed to be doing and that is taking care of their fellow citizenry. The Insurance Companies are pond scum and their congressional whores too. They are all rotten to the very core. I still do not see how anyone that opposes the Government option can look their fellow citizenry in the faces and declare that they love them. They can't. They don't love their fellow Americans they love the all mighty dollar aqnd that is it. Thems the facts jack."

It isn't the governments job to take care of citizens but it is their job to create an enviroment where we can take care of ourselves.

Insurance companies are not scum but some do use tactics to improve their bottom line that is contrary to the best interest of their customers.

I oppose the public option because of those that would administer it and that is government beaurocrats.

Larry, why are you not mad at the doctors and hospitals? They set the prices and use strong arm practices to collect. Many specialists will not even see you without a referral. Just another way to get more money out of your pocket.

All this country needs are a few simple changes.

1. No one should be denied coverage for any reason.
2. All health care providers should have to post their prices online for the public to see.
3. Government should provide publicly funded free clinics for those that cannot buy insurance. Not necessarily great care but would do in an emergency.
4. Allow people to buy into medicaid.
5. Get rid of co-pays and yearly deductibles. People who have insurance often go broke or bankrupt because of these.
6. Free government screenings for very common and serious diseases like diabetes, high blood pressure, breast cancer, and prostate cancer. Catching these early would save billions of dollars and absolutely be worth the investment.

You see, problem solved and no public option necessary.

I doubt much has changed since the posting...

Doubt whatever you want. But a meaningful debate relies on facts, not what you (especially you, believer in smokestacks on the moon!) think.

If Congress does not pass comprehensive health care reform, President Obama should cancel, by Executive Order, the Health care that members of Congress currently have.

"If you want to debate the state of health care in the year 2000, I concede the point to you. "

Since rankings back then were partially based on cost and access, how would you access the trends in America since then?

My contention is since health inflation has risen 4 times the rate of inflation over the last decade, and more and more are knocked off insurance rolls every day, as well as the #45 and #50 rankings cited above:

...#37 is probably a high number.

Guys--the number is #29 for infant mortality for the US.

See link in post 100

#131

access = assess

Of course, rather than dealing with the message, the rightists will attack the messenger.

#127 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

And of course when bOoB is proven to be dishonest by citing a 9 YO statistic, he falls back on the "boo hoo -- he is attacking the messenger". LOL

"citing a 9 YO statistic,"

You're pretending the statistic is worthless. It's not.

And the megatrends in the last decade suggest the ranking is lower.

Which is, and has been, the overarching point.

Since rankings back then were partially based on cost and access, how would you access the trends in America since then?

I don't have the expertise (even the WHO says it is too complex) to ascertain that. Do you have such expertise?

My contention is since health inflation has risen 4 times the rate of inflation over the last decade, and more and more are knocked off insurance rolls every day, as well as the #45 and #50 rankings cited above:

...#37 is probably a high number.

That number is not based on cost, so I disagree that the number may be higher because of inflation factors. Besides, other countries have inflation as well, so that would have to be considered if cost were a factor in determing that number.

The obvious inference is that nationalized systems deliver better outcomes than ours.

Except that depends on the benchmarks one uses as "outcomes", doesn't it?

Infant mortality rate and life expectancy at birth are two commonly cited benchmarks, for obvious reasons.

The bottom line is that whoring your health care decisions (and roughly 20% of your economy) out to the bureaucratic incompetence of the government fundamentally changes the relationship between the citizen and his State.

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

I disagree on perhaps the most fundamental basis on which an American can.

Aditionally, the State currently has in place laws which ensure universal access to health care in the emergency room. So the change is not as fundamental as Pinche asserts.

You're pretending the statistic is worthless. It's not.

LOL.

That's pretty weak, danforth. 9 years is a lot of time in the highly dynamic health care system. Keep your head in 9 years of sand if you want. I think that's funny.

Snoofy--there is nothing in the Constitution that gives the feds power or authority to promote or force HC or HC insurance on the populace.

I disagree on perhaps the most fundamental basis on which an American can

No you don't.

You just conflate the term "provide" with the term "promote" because your un-American (leftist) politics don't jive with the fundamental principles of the country you wish to impose them upon.

Aditionally, the State currently has in place laws which ensure universal access to health care in the emergency room.

It also has laws that ensure wet scrubbers on power plant stacks.

That's got very little to do with the fundementals of the Constitution---and does very little to advance your argument.

"9 years is a lot of time in the highly dynamic health care system."

Then make your case why the US has risen in the rankings. Otherwise, we have CIA proof we've dropped, as of 2009.

Sorry, here's the link:

Snoofy--there is nothing in the Constitution that gives the feds power or authority to promote or force HC or HC insurance on the populace.

Would you say there is Constitutional authority to provide health care for prisoners and other wards of the state?

Yeah.

Its a line-item in the Dept. of Justice budget.

Well, I've served on health committees for a national group for over a decade, and was recently nominated as a trustee for a multi-billion dollar health & retirement fund.

That's impressive (no snarkiness) but it is hardly the expertise needed to come up with a worldwide health care ranking.

If you have reasons these rankings have changed radically, I'm all ears.

Things change, danforth. It's a dynamic world we live in. Change is the norm in our society in every aspect. If you choose to spend some time looking at the historical links (I can't find an aggregate) you'll see that they change every year. I have no reason to think that things froze in the year 2000

That's got very little to do with the fundementals of the Constitution

The fundamentals of the Constitution are not at issue.

The "fundamental relationship" between the citizen and the State is already structured in such a way that the State provides health care to the citizen (and even non-citizens) in the ER, no exceptions.

Expanding that care beyond the ER would not fundamentally alter the relationship between the citizen and the State. The change would be incremental. Evolutionary, not revolutionary.

Thus, Pinche's assertion "whoring your health care decisions (and roughly 20% of your economy) out to the bureaucratic incompetence of the government fundamentally changes the relationship between the citizen and his State" is demonstrated to be false.

Then make your case why the US has risen in the rankings.

???

I never made such a claim. Why should I make a case for it?

All along my claim is the the oft repeated 37 is 9 years old and not necessarily indicative of the state of today's health care.

" it is hardly the expertise needed to come up with a worldwide health care ranking."

Who's talking about ME coming up with a ranking? The WHO did it 9 years ago, it was neither unreliable nor arbitrary, no one has shown trends of the USA rising, I've linked to numerous articles showing us dropping, and we're both aware of the megatrends of runaway inflation and growing numbers of uninsured.

"I have no reason to think that things froze in the year 2000"

They didn't. They got worse for the USA.

Would you say there is Constitutional authority to provide health care for prisoners and other wards of the state?

Yeah. Its a line-item in the Dept. of Justice budget.

Interesting.

Does Pinche assert the Constitution guarantees more rights to prisoners than citizens?

They didn't. They got worse for the USA.

Since the report you are using as a baseline for your claim hasn't been produced since 2000, you cannot make an accurate comparison.

Does Pinche assert the Constitution guarantees more rights to prisoners than citizens?

I don't think there's any question that prisoners have far, far fewer rights than non-incarcerated citizens.

More to the point, then, do prisoners enjoy a right to health care? A right that is not extended to the citizenry at large?

If so, what is the basis of this right, and would it be at odds with the Constitution to extend that right to all Americans?

I don't get why those who want better health care hold other countries up as the standard that we must meet thru government interference in a nongovernmental domain rather than get off their asses and create nonprofit foundations that provide healthcare for those who can't afford healthcare.

Oh wait I do know either they think money grows on trees when it comes to government programs or that the evil rich will be taxed to pay for it. The first possibility is a common misconception of the left and the second is just plain un-American therefore a leftie hallmark.

Oh well the lefties haven't taken their heads outta their asses since Carter at least.

The "fundamental relationship" between the citizen and the State is already structured in such a way that the State provides health care to the citizen (and even non-citizens) in the ER

No its not.

There is no fundamental right to health care in the ER---or anywhere else. Nor is such a thing addressed in the Constitution.

Does Pinche assert the Constitution guarantees more rights to prisoners than citizens?

No.

Pinche asserts the Constitution grants Congress the power to fund Justice Dept. facilities that, among other things, administer health care to certain prisoners in incarcerates.

Pinche also suggests that Snoofy find a different tack to push his rationale for Socialized health care, as his obtuse and specious "Constitutional arguments" aren't really doing the job for him.

"Since the report you are using as a baseline for your claim hasn't been produced since 2000, you cannot make an accurate comparison."

Didn't you read the links? Aren't you aware of the trends of medical inflation and accessibility? If you're going to keep your head in the sand, what's the point? I've shown link after link proving we've dropped since the #37 ranking. All you've got is a regurgitated point about a baseline report you felt the need to lie about, as it turns out it was neither arbitrary nor unreliable.

I don't get why those who want better health care hold other countries up as the standard that we must meet thru government interference in a nongovernmental domain

Because it's demonstrated many times over to be an effective model which delivers better health care at lower cost.

The assertion that it is a nongovernmental domain is... questionable. Why wouldn't a government concern itself with the health of its citizenry? Our government clearly does, as evinced by the Surgeon General, Public Health System, National Institutes of Health, Food and Drug Administration, etc. etc.

More to the point, then, do prisoners enjoy a right to health care?

No.

They simply "enjoy" health care as incarcerated citizens with said health care being administered to them by the state, when needed, so that it may comply with the 8th Amendment of the Constitution.

Because it's demonstrated many times over to be an effective model which delivers better health care at lower cost.

No it hasn't.

There's a reason we don't flock to countries with socialized health care for treatment.

Why wouldn't a government concern itself with the health of its citizenry?

Oops.

You're being atrociously obtuse, again.

Would you say there is Constitutional authority to provide health care for prisoners and other wards of the state?

Prisoners get healthcare because they're wards of the state. Personally I'd rather take my chances not having guaranteed healthcare than to be a ward of the state which would REALLY give the government a reason to claim it can tell me what I can and cannot do.

"so that it may comply with the 8th Amendment of the Constitution."

Interesting. A prisoner without health care is being subjected to cruel and inhuman punishment.

Guys like Snoofy don't get that, Scoth.

Interesting. A prisoner without health care is being subjected to cruel and inhuman punishment

That's not "interesting" at all---especially given the latest specious contortions of legal reasoning regarding the treatment of prisoners we've observed in the last several years.

I've shown link after link proving we've dropped since the #37 ranking.

You are comparing two different reports. How do you know that their respective numbers use the same dataset and algorithms to derive their numbers

"You're being atrociously obtuse, again."

Nonsense. Governments have vested interests in the health of their citizenry, from preventing communicable diseases to increasing overall productivity. And a government already on the hook for 40% of the insured -- with that % slated to increase as baby boomers begin accessing Medicare -- has an ever-increasing vested interest.

"That's not "interesting" at all"

Huh? It's your contention.

Governments have vested interests in the health of their citizenry

Of course they do, but that's not an argument for nationalizing the health care industry.

Huh? It's your contention.

You're the one who disingenuosly referred to it as "interesting".

You're being mocked.

"Of course they do, but that's not an argument for nationalizing the health care industry."

When they're on the hook for paying, it's a great argument for creating some counterpoint that would reign in medical inflation.

Another decade of health costs running at 4x inflation will break us, as the baby boomer retirement will add many, many more to Medicare than it will remove.

All you've got is a regurgitated point about a baseline report you felt the need to lie about...

That's a cheap shot considering I retracted that statement, danforth.

I'm not surprised, though

"You're being mocked."

Awwww....how sweet.

Governments have vested interests in the health of their citizenry

Let's let the vapidity of that statement sink in for a minute.

Then, let's apply it to other things:

Governments have vested interests in the ______ of their citizenry

That's ground-breaking stuff.

"That's a cheap shot considering I retracted that statement"

Bullshit. You still lied about it, repeatedly.

As I suspected, prisoners have a Constitutional right to health care.

In this regard, prisoners have more rights than citizens.

Suck it bitches.

Another decade of health costs running at 4x inflation will break us, as the baby boomer retirement will add many, many more to Medicare than it will remove

Well I certainly hope the State helps creates the kind of regulatory environment necessary for the medical and insurance industries to create solutions.

We therefore conclude that deliberate indifference to serious medical needs of prisoners constitutes the "unnecessary and wanton infliction of pain," Gregg v. Georgia, supra, at 173 (joint opinion), proscribed by the Eighth Amendment.

LOL!!!

Just like I told you.

Suck it, bitch.

"Let's let the vapidity of that statement sink in for a minute."

The village idiot doesn't realize 40% of the insured are currently covered by a single-payer, governmental plan. Either that, or he doesn't fully understand the literal meaning of vested interest.

Well I certainly hope the State helps creates the kind of regulatory environment necessary for the medical and insurance industries to create solutions.

#178 | Posted by Jak_Se_Mao at 2009-09-30 01:10 AM | Reply | FlagThinks insurance companies care about people

No.

They simply "enjoy" health care as incarcerated citizens with said health care being administered to them by the state, when needed, so that it may comply with the 8th Amendment of the Constitution.

#159 | Posted by Jak_Se_Mao

"Well I certainly hope the State helps creates the kind of regulatory environment necessary for the medical and insurance industries to create solutions."

I'm guessing you're hoping for the Easter Bunny as well.

More to the point, then, do prisoners enjoy a right to health care?

No.

They simply "enjoy" health care as incarcerated citizens with said health care being administered to them by the state, when needed, so that it may comply with the 8th Amendment of the Constitution.

In other words, yes.

Prisoners--free health care. Terrorists in Gitmo--free health care. All federal employees free health care. All State employess free health care--all City workers Free Health care--all County employees free health care--all Congressional members free health care for LIFE.

Free health care for all, except the citizens who pay for all those others to have free health care.

"That's a cheap shot considering I retracted that statement"

Bullshit. You still lied about it, repeatedly.

Bullshit indeed. I'll accept your apology unless you want to remain a liar

OK. Forget I made my claim. I retract it.

#114 | Posted by goatman at 2009-09-29 11:36 PM |

understand the literal meaning of vested interest.

But you can apply that "reasoning" to anything.

The state has a "vested interest" in the education of its citizens.

The state has a "vested interest" in the transportation of its citizens.

The state has a "vested interest" in the information and media provided to its citizens.

etc.

etc.

Can we nationalize all the industries associated with them as well?

Once again, you people have lost the intellectual and (apparently the) political debate over socialized health care.

Get over it.

In other words, yes.

No, Snoofy.

The 8th Amendment doesn't apply to you and I.

We go find our own health care solutions.

Its not the government's job to provide it.

There's a reason we don't flock to countries with socialized health care for treatment.

LOL!

Would that be that we would have to pay for it being from a different country.

Would that be the socialized health care is in another country and not down the street.

What a stupid comment.

"Forget I made my claim. I retract it."

And then in the next line, in the same post, you bashed the reliability.

Some "retraction".

G'nite.

#178 | Posted by Jak_Se_Mao at 2009-09-30 01:10 AM | Reply | FlagThinks insurance companies care about people

#181 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-09-30 01:13 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose) Thinks The Government Cares About People

"Well I certainly hope the State helps creates the kind of regulatory environment necessary for the medical and insurance industries to create solutions."

LOL!

The insurance industries created this mess in the first place, you think they are going to show ownership in the problem they created.

So it is cruel and unusual punishment to deny a rapist, murderer, or child molester health care, but perfectly OK to deny a law abiding citizen health care---and the rightists think that is perfectly logical.

Except nobody's denying a law abiding citizen health care.

Try again, Bobbie-Sox.

"Forget I made my claim. I retract it."

And then in the next line, in the same post, you bashed the reliability.

Some "retraction".

G'nite.

???

Of course I bashed its reliability. At that point I still didn't have the citation.

Nice try to cop out, but you lost. You are a liar and cheap shot artist. Funny how you run away with that statement because you know I'm right.

Yeah, whatever -- night night Dannyboy (lurking right now as we all know)

The state has a "vested interest" in the education of its citizens.
Public schools
Land grant universities

The state has a "vested interest" in the transportation of its citizens.
Public transportation
TSA
Eisenhower Interstate Highway System

The state has a "vested interest" in the information and media provided to its citizens.
Whitehouse.gov
The creation of the Internet itself
The FCC
Public libraries

Can we nationalize all the industries associated with them as well?
No, let's privatize everything. We should definitely privatize all the utilities too.
With any luck the results will be just as good as Enron, WorldCom, and airport security on 9/11.

So it is cruel and unusual punishment to deny a rapist, murderer, or child molester health care, but perfectly OK to deny a law abiding citizen health care---

That's right bOoB. The Constitution addresses the treatment of prisoners, but not law abiding citizens in that respect.

Or -- show us in the COnstitution where it does.

The entertainment value of this discussion has waned.

'Nite blog.

Later.

Adios.

Its not the government's job to provide it.
Until we turn 65, or are in poverty and under 18, or become disabled, or have diabetes, or are or have ever been in the military, or Congress, or work for the Federal, State, or Local government.

But only in those very rare cases, a minuscule 40% of Americans, is it the government's job.

Except nobody's denying a law abiding citizen health care.
At the ER, no.
Anywhere else, people are denied routinely.
It's almost like the insurance companies are engaged in some kind of communist "rationing."

Land grant universities

Is your tuition free?

Public transportation

Is the asphalt/concrete company nationalized yet?

Whitehouse.gov

Are the media companies and newspapers nationalized?

The entertainment value of this discussion has waned.

School isn't always entertaining. Though students with a propensity and willingness to learn might find it to be so.

Land grant universities

Is your tuition free?

Is Pinche making the assertion that there are no end-user and point-of-services fees in a nationalized health care system?

Anywhere else, people are denied routinely.
It's almost like the insurance companies blah blah blah

Insurance isn't health care.

Nobody's denying a law abiding citizen health care.

School isn't always entertaining. Though students with a propensity and willingness to learn might find it to be so.

Well you're just gonna have to wait until tomorrow.

*pats Snoofy's head*

Go read your Harry Potter book and sleep tight.

Maybe Cap and Trade will pass someday.

Nobody's denying a law abiding citizen health care.

Nobody except the patient's own willingness to place themselves in debt or bankruptcy, or choose between food and medicine.

Insurance isn't health care.

Health insurance is the mechanism by which health care is provided. To argue otherwise is silly word-games.

Insurance isn't health care.

Nobody's denying a law abiding citizen health care.

#203 | Posted by Jak_Se_Mao at 2009-09-30 01:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

Go to your local emergency clinic/hospital. Tell them you have cancer and need treatment, are a "law abiding citizen", but have no insurance.

Take the response, turn it sideways, and stick it up your ass.

I'm gonna re-post my question from last night. Surely someone who supports the public option has done some kind of due diligence on the matter, right?

I have a few questions about the public option.
I honestly do not know the answers.
Perhaps someone here does.
My questions are:

- Will the public option only take premium payments from participants like the private companies do or,
will the public option take premium payments from all Americans?
- If from all Americans, will congress level the playing field and permit private companies to do the same or,
will they operate under different rules.
- If they operate under different rules, will the courts permit the imbalance?
- If the public option only takes premium payments from participants and realizes a shortfall, will the public option go bankrupt, be taken over by the private sector or,
will the Gummit simply use public money to cover difference, thereby taking premium payments from all Americans anyway?

#61 | Posted by libertarian_gi at 2009-09-29 08:33 PM

Here's a start-

Will the public option only take premium payments from participants like the private companies do...?

Yes. That's why it's called an option.

Should I link you to a definition of the word "option"?

If so, please let me know and I'll check this thread as soon as time allows and give you a good link.

until then....

Seriously?
Your due diligence on the rules of the public option premium payments was done via a dictionary definition of the word 'option'?
I'm concerned that you may be emotionally attached to the idea of a public option without regard to the mechanics of it.
I'm still not convinced it's a good idea.
Anyone else wanna take a wag at selling this plan to me?
P.S., Please try to avoid falling back on emotional based arguments. Pretend that you have thought it through logically for a minute or two.

Why do the dems hate the pubic option so much?

"will the Gummit simply use public money to cover difference, thereby taking premium payments from all Americans anyway?"

You mean like AIG????
A little late to pretend concern about government bailouts of private insurance companies.

A little late to pretend concern about government bailouts of private insurance companies.

#213 | Posted by danni

Screw Bush and his complicity in this.

However, Obama voted in favor of this shit and more Dems in congress voted for TARP than did Republicans.

At least have the decency to acknowledge such.

At least have the decency to acknowledge such.

#214 | Posted by JeffJ
Don't hold your breath. The dems never make a mistake (according to Danni). Just ask the senate finance committie that voted down the public option...LOL

I called this a long time ago. The House still has a public option in their bill, but that too will be nixed when it comes time for reconciliation. As is generally true in politics: the center holds.

Oh and Jak You tell Me how the Private Sector is so great when they reject Your application for health insurance EVERY single one of the companies that I applied to rejected Me. These fucking insurance companies are scumbags. I don't understand how You can't see it. Of course You believe in corporate America so Your mind is all fucked up. I am sorry but the Government must do their job but they aren't doing it. Because of greedy politicians and the insurance companies bribing them to keep status quo. It's horseshit is what it is. They aren't worth a pocket to piss in nor boots to pour it out of. Insurance Companies are scum.

Larry

#5 | Posted by LarryMohr
You are not entitled to shit. Insurance comapanies provide a service based on profit. If you are not profitable, then they don't provide the service. If you don't understand that you are dumb as dog shit. Healthcare is your own responsibility. Not anybody elses. Have some self respect and take care of yourself. As for the argument of opposition to public option = hating people that is as bad as death panel claims. It just is plain not true. I give a ton to charity, a lot more than any damn dems in congress or the senate (as a percentage of my income).

" I give a ton to charity, a lot more than any damn dems in congress or the senate (as a percentage of my income)."

A lot of assholes do that just because they think it makes their whining about taxes more tolerable. It doesn't.

#218 | Posted by nullifidian
Yea, all people that give to charity are assholes, that is a great retort...

Insurance comapanies provide a service based on profit. If you are not profitable, then they don't provide the service. If you don't understand that you are dumb as dog shit.
#217 | POSTED BY FREECHOICE AT 2009-09-30 09:36 AM

Uh, WE understand it perfectly son.

Insurance companies place PROFITS before PEOPLE.

The USA, richest country in all the world is the ONLY industrialized nation in the world that still places PROFITS before PEOPLE.

And, because we have a government, by, for and of, the PEOPLE, we do not have to allow that to occur.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

See, our government gives us the ability to collectively bargain for our healthcare (form a more perfect Union) and insure ALL Americans, not just the rich have it, (establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity)

Question is, why would you SHILL for giant global healthcare corporations instead of your own PEOPLE?

THINK

National defense, education, and healthcare (among other things) should not be left to FOR PROFIT global corporations...

libertarian

Right now, there is NO OPTION.

Why not have an option and then see what the FOR PROFIT corporations will do for the PEOPLE?

If a public option is available and people decide to opt for it, does that not mean it's viable?

When no option is available, no free choice can be made, eh?

And for those who cry that the poor healthcare corps will go under, face the facts that those same corporations barter with ALL the other industrialized nations in the world, eh?

THINK

Woke,

You keep telling your nemeses to "THINK".

Physician, heal thyself.

I am not a shill for the insurance companies at all. I don't like them and I don't use them for my general healthcare. I do have a major medical policy, but I negotiate and pay for the services I receive. Healthcare is not an inanimate object, it is a service provided by others. It is fair to compensate them for their service. It is fair for them to make a profit off of their service. It is salvery to make them provide a service for a fixed price. More perfect union is one where we are free to choose, and free from govt interferance. Promote the general welfare, not provide it. Govt invovlement in health care is a detrement to all of those things you quoted.

The NHL Hockey players are happy, because if the US were to follow Canada then where would they go.

Funny that you call yourself, "freechoice", but yet don't want a free choice. Right now there are no free choices with healthcare. The giant global corporations FIX their own prices and decide how much we will pay for it.

You claim you don't use insurance companies, then say you DO have a major medical policy.

You claim you don't shill for healthcare corps, yet that is EXACTLY what you are doing on here....

You say govt involvement is a detriment. Tell that to all the old people who are on medicare and social security to insure they can live longer, more dignified lives. Tell that to the challenged individuals who depend on medicaid for the extraordinary medical expenses their situations require. Tell that to all the returning war veterans who depend on the VA for care.

No doubt about it, if you are trying to say that bargaining with companies for better prices is slavery, you are definitely a SHILL for giant global corporations, who place PROFITS before PEOPLE.....and not for American PEOPLE.

And hey, Jeff J....I am THINKING, not merely repeating what rushaddict/bullyo'lielly, sean handjobbity, and/or crybaby beck told me to think......

like you, eh?

I guess that's why it bothers you so much each time i ask you to

THINK

eh?

Woke,

Hannity told me to fuck yer ass up!

Beware!

:-)

Why wouldn't a government concern itself with the health of its citizenry? Our government clearly does, as evinced by the Surgeon General, Public Health System, National Institutes of Health, Food and Drug Administration, etc. etc.

#158 | Posted by snoofy at 2009-09-30 12:46 AM

How many billions have these Gov run Agency's spent on educating people about proper diet and exercise? Regulating and identifying any substance you eat or drink. They have overwhelmed us with everything we need to live a healthy and long life. How much more can they possibly do that they haven't already done?

You got to love it, when posters use rankings without including the fact we are the fattest and unhealthiest nation in the industrialized world. Is there any doubt, if we become healthier those numbers would improve? Is there any doubt we are responsible for what we eat and how we live and that is the number one factor when it comes to costs present, past and future?

Ah, people who believe that the American ideal of good government, of government of, by, and for the people is dead; that government is inherently evil and incompetent.... all because a 3rd rate B movie actor, second banana to a chimpanzee, told them so.

Health is between you and your Doctor, and secondarily, a hospital and a drug maker. What is the value added by an insurance company, other than holding the money?

There is none. Health security in this country should be no more less sacred, and less subject to profit motives than military security, as they both, ultimately, server the same purposes.

Yet most bankruptcies in America are due to medical bills, while Americans suffer dastardly policies of greedy health care companies, whose profits depend on not paying claims.... and hwose profits have quadrupled in recent years.

We have National Parks, and public libraries and public colleges and a myriad of other services that exist happily alongside similar for-profit services, but with health care, the people are not to be allowed a choice of a public option.

Perhaps we are going to need public financing of campaigns, which every other modern Western democracy has, get the corporate money out of politics, before we can have public health care.

That said, those who have been celebrating the death of choice for the American people may find that news has been greatly exaggerated.

Baucus is wrong. Dems don't need 60 votes on the Bill, only 51. They need 60 to close debate, and all 60 can vote for that, then vote their "conscious", or best self-interest, on the Bill itself.

That allows them to do what they are best at CYA, and still have more than 50 votes for the Bill.

The public option will be decided in conference with the WH, and 4 or 5 Bills already include it.

Then is when we will see who stands up.

And with 65 percent of America (and 75 percent of doctors), for it, even a majority in most Blue Dog districts now.... well, how often have politicians voted against those numbers?

"Insurance comapanies provide a service based on profit. If you are not profitable, then they don't provide the service. If you don't understand that you are dumb as dog shit."

We understand how the status quo works, we intend to change it to a better way, more like them evil youropeans. We WILL socialize health care and turn it into a right instead of a privelege and we WILL DEFEAT people like you, we WILL change American for the better and just as every other molecule of change we will do it over the objections of the morons who try to hold back progress.
Count on it. It won't happen overnight but it WILL happen.

Funny that you call yourself, "freechoice", but yet don't want a free choice. Right now there are no free choices with healthcare. The giant global corporations FIX their own prices and decide how much we will pay for it.

There are plenty, I negotiate all the time. I tell doctors that I am comparing them to other doctors. I recently had an MRI, I pitted 3 hospitals against eachother and cut the price by over 70%. People will shop forever for a care or a sofa, but are too damn lazy to do it for their health care. Plenty of otpions, it is just that goberment edumacted libs want to suck off the goberment teetie. Lazy bastards, take control of your own life, that is freedom, that is the American way.

"How many billions have these Gov run Agency's spent on educating people about proper diet and exercise?"

I doubt you could demonstrate that even one billion has ever been spent on that. That was one of your dumbest posts ever.

229 | Posted by danni
can you still dream and sing kumbya at the same time. Not even your beloved dems are going to get what you want done. Oh, and those evil countries you mention are all going away from socialistic paths becasue they have learned what you are too stupid to understand. It does not work.

I doubt you could demonstrate that even one billion has ever been spent on that. That was one of your dumbest posts ever.

#231 | Posted by danni at 2009-09-30 10:33 AM | Reply |

Hey Mother Time, I'll bet they even had those Food Pyramid charts in the one room schoolhouse you attended.

101 had Beer Pyramid charts in his school..... with Coors at the top.

-That was one of your dumbest posts ever.

Tough competition there.

Gubberment edumactaion, arnt they great. No choice for where our kids can go to school acording to the dems, but they are all about choice (as long as it is govt controlled) for health care. I want choice in computers too, they should take over the computer industry. It is not fair that only rich have computers. It should be a right for everyone. And who can live in a perfect union without a cell phone. Those damn evil compaines expect to make a profit. I want my goberment cell phone too.

And with 65 percent of America (and 75 percent of doctors), for it, even a majority in most Blue Dog districts now.... well, how often have politicians voted against those numbers?

#228 | Posted by Corky

Not to mention a Democratic majority in both houses. This should be a cakewalk. What's the holdup? LOL.

-suck off the goberment teetie.

Never left the 1950's; still has John Birch Society membership card in wallet.

-What's the holdup?

The holdup is that Obama is actually a "nice guy", who thinks that Republicans are also on the level, so he gives away too much to start.

Repubes shoved thru 2 tax cuts for the wealthy and the Iraq war on 51 vote reconciliation so they could give that debt to our children's children, instead of paying for it.

Obama insists this be paid for, which is the real hold up.

"Gubberment edumactaion, arnt they great."

Perhaps you should have actually attended, you might not be an ignorant fool today.

#235 | Posted by freechoice at 2009-09-30 10:40 AM | Reply | Flag: "Thinks" cell phones and good health are equal considerations

"Oh, and those evil countries you mention are all going away from socialistic paths becasue they have learned what you are too stupid to understand. It does not work."

Perhaps you could provide me with a list of those that have rid theirselves of national health care systems....

I'm in no hurry, any time today would be fine.

"Hey Mother Time, I'll bet they even had those Food Pyramid charts in the one room schoolhouse you attended."

Perhaps you could make your posts more interesting by actually having a point.

Freechoice has all the answers.

He apparently LOVES the neocon policies of the last 4 decades, especially the last 8 years.....total, complete, abject FAILURES...but he loves the status quo.....

There is NO free choice as he claims with healthcare. Each state only has a couple or so insurance companies to barter with.....that isn't free choice, that is DIRECTED choice, which is NO CHOICE..

As i pointed out, freechoice is SHILLING for giant global healthcare corporations OVER his own people....and then INSULTING anyone who doesn't want to continue the STATUS QUO, which has resulted in healthcare EXCLUSIONS, decisions BASED ON PROFITS instead of what's in a person's best interests, and tripled costs since reform was first brought up by dems in 93.

He may well be an UNWITTING DUPE, but he is still a DUPE for giant global healthcare corporations.....How's that for a namecalling argument freechoice??? You are a DUPE for giant global corporations and place PROFITS over your own fellow Americans.

Nice eh?

Social security, medicare, medicaid and VA works (with the exceptions of when your neocon heroes have meddled with it by instituting PRIVATIZATION, which created the Walter Reed Va Hospital problems and the Medicare part D problems...

Wise up some will ya?

These policies you call socialistic have not failed. And certainly have not failed with healthcare because they are not instituted....

WHAT are you afraid of son? That your partisan politics will be shown for what it is....more continued, total abject FAILURES?? Too late to save face now, bud.

REAL choice for the PEOPLE would mean an alternative to the present status quo....and these FOR PROFIT corps want to avoid that at all costs......(no pun intended)....

And when a freechoice's arguments fail, as is usual with republican/neocon supporters, he turns to insults and namecalling instead. I have to wonder if calling him a DUPE makes more sense to him, since that is his preferred methodology....

Great job there, brownie,......er....."
freechoice"

Obama insists this be paid for, which is the real hold up.

#238 | Posted by Corky

Has President Nice Guy settled on a particular version of the bill yet? Or is that happening after the Copenhagen junket?

Hilarious, now freechoice wants to CHANGE the argument to schools, etc....

90% of Americans are educated in public schools.

Wonder where ol freechoice thinks people can better educate their kids? At home, eh? LOL

Private schools handpick their students. They refuse to take behavior problems, handicapped students, the poor, etc.....and their costs far outweigh any voucher....so that bogus program only helps those who can already afford private schools......of which there are 90% too few to educate all American students.....but again, ol freechoice thinks crybaby beck and rush addict know better, eh?

LMFAO @ the DUPE

Agreed. But at least I can kick a Car Insurance salesman in the vagina. I don't have that luxury at work were the plan is picked by the same guy who employees and pays me.

#24 | Posted by wisgod at 2009-09-29 06:59 PM | Reply

Sure you do, just have another job lined up.

If you followed ebil American gub'mint, you would know that the House and Sen Bills go to conference, with the WH, as I mentioned above.

If other world leaders are going to Denmark to support their cities for the Olympics, then why shouldn't ours?

Perhaps you should have actually attended, you might not be an ignorant fool today.

#239 | Posted by danni at 2009-09-30 10:46 AM | Reply

You must be as stupid as I had originally thought to have missed the point.
Government has been promoting diet and exercise as far back as when you were a hetero.

But you knew that already.

If other world leaders are going to Denmark to support their cities for the Olympics, then why shouldn't ours?

#247 | Posted by Corky

You're right. Nothing else is as pressing these days and Leno has booked his guests for the week. Do you actualy believe your own bullshit?

Danni,
Mea Culpa, and self retorter on me for quoting the wrong post.

Regardless, it doesn't make you any less stupid for pretending not to get the point.

- as far back as when you were a hetero.

101 wants to, "show you the light", Danni.

As does every closeted gay guy, I imagine.

-Nothing else is as pressing these days

You just aren't used to a Pres that can walk and chew gum at the same time.

GW always wrecked his bike when he tried something like that.

I doubt you could demonstrate that even one billion has ever been spent on that. That was one of your dumbest posts ever.
#231 | Posted by danni at 2009-09-30 10:33 AM | Reply |

Of course it is danni. The fact you were stupid enough to argue a basic fact most 5th graders know is not surprising. I guess you are included in my post pointing out we are the fattest and laziest nation, don't make me include dumbest as well.

Here are stats just for this year. Anyone but danni can figure out how many more billions were spent in the last 30 years alone.

The National Institutes of Health were appropriated a combined $30.3 billion. The Center for Disease Control and Prevention requested discretionary authority budget of $6.35 billion. The CDCP monitors and tracks infectious diseases, chronic diseases, environmental and occupational health illness, and state and federal bio-terrorism preparations.

The Health Resources and Services Administration which funds clinics and health centers, rural health care, funds training and scholarships, some organ transplant services, among other services, asked $6.8 billion.

In 2009, for legislated mandates, Indian Health Services was expected to receive $4.08 billion.

In the 2008 budget, the WIC (Women, Infants, and Children) program, which provides nutrition assistance to women with infants and services 45 percent of all US born infants, was budgeted at $5.5 billion.

So far, in 2009, the US government has purchased $3 billion of flu vaccine componentswhich may prevent an epidemic of H1N1, currently the biggest threat to cause a global pandemic.

The newly passed Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP), for children of families caught in the income gap between private insurance and medicaid, is requesting $6.9 billion to spend this year.

Examine the invisible government health care expenses by several themes: treatment, costs for specific illness, drug prices, public payer, public health care providers, breath and scope of federal health services in all departments.

You just aren't used to a Pres that can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Posted by Corky

Maybe he should lose the gum and start getting serious about Iran. Of course your right, the Olympics are more important. I just hope he does something before he is forced to deal with Haloween costumes for Malaria and Stasha.

#227 | POSTED BY CRISPEE_OC
How many billions have these Gov run Agency's spent on educating people about proper diet and exercise? Regulating and identifying any substance you eat or drink. They have overwhelmed us with everything we need to live a healthy and long life. How much more can they possibly do that they haven't already done?
You got to love it, when posters use rankings without including the fact we are the fattest and unhealthiest nation in the industrialized world. Is there any doubt, if we become healthier those numbers would improve? Is there any doubt we are responsible for what we eat and how we live and that is the number one factor when it comes to costs present, past and future?
--------------
Let me guess you must be a Rocket Scientist, because you nailed it.

I love all these statistics comparing Fat Albert with a marathon runner.

The minute you fly into any Airport in Europe, the 1st thing you notice is were are all the fat people.

As i pointed out, freechoice is SHILLING for giant global healthcare corporations OVER his own people....and then INSULTING anyone who doesn't want to continue the STATUS QUO, #243 | Posted by woke at 2009-09-30 10:50 AM | Reply

You mean this ignored status quo Joke? How many of these stats identify you? THINK!!!!

Lessee, deflections to the Olympics, deflections to Iran....... nothing on topic hey?

How about tearing apart my #228 and showing how wrong I am about the thread topic instead of all the deflections, eh?

As does every closeted gay guy, I imagine.

#251 | Posted by Corky at 2009-09-30 10:58 AM | Reply

Do you often use your imagination thinking about gay guys, closeted or not?
Do you find that at all odd, or perhaps enlightening?

#258

Lessee, if we applied that standard to all the homophobic, racist, downright Neanderthal things you post, well, we sluff it off as "humor", just so we don't have to imagine that.

But, since you are all serious this morning (such a moody guy!) you were hitting on Danni, right?

The only question is what point you were trying to prove.

Where did danni go? Is she pulling a Buffalo BOob and running away when given a stat she requested?

Does her silence make her more or less stupid than her retort, arguing the Gov hasn't spent billions educating people?

LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES

I watched most of this on cspan and the dems lied thier asses off time and time again

stabinow made a point of saying the 73% of drs were in favor of govt option

and so did Rockefeller himself...

and thats not true....73% of the drs they were referring to are members of AMA which accounts for less than 20% of all drs...so Kyl I believe it was called them out on it and showed were the number would actually be more like 14% of ALL drs...

they had no answer.

start getting serious about Iran. Of course your right, the Olympics are more important. I just hope he does something before he is forced to deal with Haloween costumes for Malaria and Stasha.

#254 | POSTED BY WISGOD AT 2009-09-30 11:06 AM

Lose the argument on healthcare and begin another losing argument on national security, eh?

LMFAO

Uh, which country has enough nukes (and delivery systems) to blow up the entire face of the earth 10 times over?

And as for Obama doing other things besides what YOU think is important.....ever hear the word "delegate" ????

What did the repug neocons do about ANY of these problems while they held scotus, potus AND congress for a decade??

Do tell??

Which country has ever actually used nukes on innocent civilians?

Yet, you think YOU have any rational ability to tell another govt not to build them, eh?

Hello?

ALSO during the committee meeting....it was kyl again who said to CHUCKY schumer who had just said in defending his amendment that MOST PEOPLE WERE in favor of the govt option

kyl said
well if its so popular why are dems having such a big discussion amoung yourselves and have so many who are against it,.

I jumped up out of bed and screamed.....something I want to do more....LOL

MORE LIES FROM OBAMA on health care

judy from texas supposedly lost health care and got breat cancer..

NO mister president...congressman joe barton took care of her

man who died because he didnt have health care...

uh no mister president..

he did die...FOUR YEARS LATER

fuckin liar

65 percent of the peopel prefer having the choice of a public option, BLT.

Down from 76 percent before the summer circus, but holding steady enough to give some backbone to Blue dogs who are seeing at least 50 percent in their conservative districts.

crispee

ever hear of strawmen arguments.....those that totally miss the point entirely...

the government cannot make anyone live healthy lives, tho they can and should educate people to those better choices...

But we are talking about what CAN be done to help people who's health insurance has FAILED them and for people who have NO health insurance....

get it?

How has allowing the FOR PROFIT corporations dictate coverage, treatment and prices worked out for us??

Hmmm?

The status quo has FAILED for decades. Just because some of you have the attitude of, "I've got mine, screw everyone else" doesn't make it right. AND what you are ignoring is that if you get seriously ill, then you may well consider that it might be YOU who gets tossed off healthcare insurance, YOU who goes bankrupt trying to pay for treatment for your loved ones, YOU who loses your home due to bankruptcy and foreclosure due to healthcare costs.....

I got mine, screw you, eh?

THINK again, it could be YOU or YOUR loved ones

WOKE

story just in
obama talked to commander yesterday....

HOWEVER>..also reported that obama made THIRY CALLS ABOUT OLYMPICS>....

and of course

OBAMA AIDS SET TO MAKE MILLIONS OFF OLYMPICS

story at 11

The percent of the people who want the government to do something not allowed by the Constitution is meaningless. IF there is enough support for a Public Option, then there should be no trouble passing an amendment to the Constitution to allow it. Once 2/3 of Congress and 75% of the States say OK, then OK.

-something not allowed by the Constitution

On which planet?

Lessee, deflections to the Olympics, deflections to Iran....... nothing on topic hey?
Posted by Corky

OK. The Public Option was rejected. Fucking Republicans fault. Obama wasn't involved so no blame on President Nice Guy. There, happy?

On which planet?

#270 | Posted by Corky at 2009-09-30 11:26 AM

Earth. Please quote where the Constitution allows a Public Option.

And as for Obama doing other things besides what YOU think is important.....ever hear the word "delegate" ????
Posted by woke

I have. Ask Biden and Clinton if they have in the last 2 months.

Passive aggressive Corky strikes again...
Telling me I'm moody doesn't do anything to hide your prissy and often defensive responses.

Ever since I pointed out you were the #1 Obama-mamma, and a transparent and ineffective shill for him, you've been aggitated.

Now, what point do you need explained? The one about the food pyramid, or are you looking for an explanation on why I cracked Danni about her former hetero status?

-The Public Option was rejected.

Only in one committee, and by less than expected.

-Fucking Republicans fault.

No that many fuck outside their own gender, so I don't think we can blame them.

-There, happy?

Not until 4:20.

Not until 4:20.

#275 | Posted by Corky at 2009-09-30 11:30 AM

It is always 4:20 somewhere =D

Senator Kyl

He wouldn't lie, would he?

You mean this Senator Kyl?

SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 26, 2009
Senator Kyl: Well, I Don't Have a Uterus

Here we have the perfect example of Conservative thought- I don't need it, so fuck you.

Video

Can't you just feel the love?

Not until 4:20.

#275 | Posted by Corky

Is that when Air Force One touches down?

"It is always 4:20 somewhere =D"

Beat me to it. But actually, it's always 4:20 once an hour. Next call: 50 minutes.

-Earth.

Please quote where it doesn't.

Are you going all fringe on us to say that if a public option were passed by both Houses of Congress and signed into Law by the Pres, that it would not pass Constitutional muster?

You'd be wrong about that.

#274 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2009-09-30 11:30 AM | Reply | Flag: When is this PMS thing of yours going to be over, Honey?

Earth. Please quote where the Constitution allows a Public Option.

Posted by kanrei at 2009-09-30 11:28 AM | Reply

This one is easy Kanrei. You will reject it like always because Your livelyhood is on Medical Care.

Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

You're welcome Kanrei

"Where did danni go? Is she pulling a Buffalo BOob and running away when given a stat she requested?"

Not one single line of your post shows where billions was spent educating Americans about diet and exercise Crispee. Sorry to break it to you but I know how to read.

Like I said, I have all day, keep searching for a link that is actually relevant to your statement.

But actually, it's always 4:20 once an hour. Next call: 50 minutes.

#279 | Posted by nullifidian at 2009-09-30 11:33 AM

Lower your standards. I accept broken and wrong clocks too.

Please quote where it doesn't.

Are you serious Corky? You want me to quote where the Constitution doesn't say something?

You're welcome Kanrei

#281 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2009-09-30 11:34 AM

You are wrong Larry, but we have gone through this over and over again and you don't understand it, so I am not going to do it again here.

No, I want you to respond to the rest of the post, not just the tag line.

You will reject it like always because Your livelyhood is on Medical Care.

We don't accept Medicare. We get paid crap by the insurance companies and would actually do better under a Public option, so once again Larry, you have no clue of what you are speaking about.

You are wrong Larry, but we have gone through this over and over again and you don't understand it, so I am not going to do it again here.

Posted by kanrei at 2009-09-30 11:35 AM | Reply

Because You have no fucking case like usual Kanrei.

Larry

Yeah I through an F bomb in there sue Me.

No, I want you to respond to the rest of the post, not just the tag line.

#285 | Posted by Corky at 2009-09-30 11:36 AM

Most of it was a 101 quote of which I am not reponsible. I responded to the only part that had to do with me.

Wis

I guess in your estimation, Obama should just stay on vacation as his predecesor did, eh?

Pretty funny how you neocon shills keep attacking the president who INHERITED all these problems, while IGNORING which policies and party CREATED them, eh?

THINK about how all Americans came together and supported lilaWol/hallichainy, even tho their incompetence allowed 911 to occur on their watch?

It would have been easy to BLAME them and not support them, but Americans rallied behind them....

until their incompetence and greed caused them to use 911 as a faux reason to invade/occupy a country that did not attack us...eh?

But, we see the GOP at it's worst as Obama inherited THEIR FAILURES......

Are you rallying behind the person elected to try to FIX those failures?

Nope.

Just like you did with Carter and Clinton.....attack our own president, because of politics over country

You should be ashamed of yourself.

But I know that is not something neocon supporters are capable of

eh?

Threw^

#287 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2009-09-30 11:36 AM

No Larry, I pick my battles. Pay attention to me and Corky and you will see answers. I just don't lower myself to talking in small words so you will understand me.

-Are you going all fringe on us to say that if a public option were passed by both Houses of Congress and signed into Law by the Pres, that it would not pass Constitutional muster?

That part was, obviously, for you.

Larry, I'll hold him, you bite him on the ass!

Larry, I'll hold him, you bite him on the ass!

Posted by Corky at 2009-09-30 11:39 AM | Reply

Why would I want to bite a tight ass. NO MEAT

I re-read it Corky. I thought it was a 101 quote.

Are you going all fringe on us to say that if a public option were passed by both Houses of Congress and signed into Law by the Pres, that it would not pass Constitutional muster?

It would have to be challenged first and no one will challenge it as it would be political suicide.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Posted by woke

I should? I didn't vote for the president who's only capability is to campaign. You bought it, fucking own it.

- it would be political suicide

It would also be found to be Constitutional, even under the current rwinger Court.

So, it's a non-consideration in either case.

The war on drugs was passed and it is unconstitutional. The war in Iraq passed and it is too. Because something passes does not make it Constitutional.

It would also be found to be Constitutional, even under the current rwinger Court.

So, it's a non-consideration in either case.

#297 | Posted by Corky at 2009-09-30 11:41 AM

Because you say so? Quote the Constitution where a Public Option is allowed. It should be simple for you if it is there. I will post where it is not allowed:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Your turn.

But it does make it irrelevant to the debate.

Just like so many of the rwing scare tactic talking points.... not that you would indulge in those, especially when Crispee has that market cornered.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Your turn.

Posted by kanrei at 2009-09-30 11:43 AM | Reply

The Tenth Amendment kinda died when the State of Arkansas tried to stop the intergration of blacks into public schools.

AFK

Why don't you just go back to listening to rush addict, crybaby beck and the rest of your neocon shills tell you what to think?

You think you have anything to say about what happens now, after the last 8 years of miserable FAILURE from your chosen politicians?

Nobody wants to hear your bullshit any longer. Your party FAILED miserably for working Americans......10 TRILLION in national debt, 2 non winnable invasion/occupations, drove our economy off the cliff with lack of oversight, lack of accountability, deregulation....basically allowing corporations, utilities, banking to do as they pleased for decades....

Considering the FAILURE, you folks should stfu, but go ahead, keep making a complete ass of yourself attacking our own president......It's not unlike what was done to Clinton for 8 years and that occurred AFTER the 93WTC attack on the USA...eh?

GOP=party over country

- to the people."

As represented by their Congress and Pres.

But let's not debate the irrelevant..... we have Repthugs for that.

kanrei

what does 'OR TO THE PEOPLE'

mean to you>???

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

WE THE PEOPLE, eh?

get a clue son

Not one single line of your post shows where billions was spent educating Americans about diet and exercise Crispee. Sorry to break it to you but I know how to read.

Like I said, I have all day, keep searching for a link that is actually relevant to your statement.

#282 | Posted by danni at 2009-09-30 11:34 AM

You can read, but that is a far cry from comprehending I guess. Here is one line from the link. Eve though you say you can read, find a fifth grader and ask him to explain what it means...

Government's annual budget to promote fruit and vegetable consumption is less than
what McDonald's spends on ads in a day.

Corky,
Here is my issue and I think you can follow my concern:

Bush did unconstitutional things that the right said OK to because they agreed with the endgame. As a result, those things are now legal the Constitution because worthless. Now we are ignoring it again. If we are going to keep ignoring it, why have it?

You have yet to show that a public option passed by the Congress and signed by the Pres does not fall under a power reserved to the people.

So I don't accept your premise in this case.

to the people."

As represented by their Congress and Pres.

But let's not debate the irrelevant..... we have Repthugs for that.

The Founders said the Fed when they meant the Fed, the State when they meant the state and the people when they meant the people. What "to the people" means is NO GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT. A basic freedom. To the People, in the 10th, clearly means that any power not given to the Federal Government either belongs to the States or to everyone without government interference.

You guys really need to take a few Government and Reading Comprehension classes.

AFK

Why don't you just go back to listening to rush addict, crybaby beck and the rest of your neocon shills tell you what to think?

Posted by woke

He has as much right to post here as you do, AMericanUnit....I mean Woke.

-What "to the people" means is NO GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT

Apparently missed the part about a government of, by, and for the people.

There is no way in hell that this legislation would ever be found unconstitutional, on fact or theory.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

TTFN CIAO BABE

crispee

ever hear of strawmen arguments.....those that totally miss the point entirely...

the government cannot make anyone live healthy lives, tho they can and should educate people to those better choices...

But we are talking about what CAN be done to help people who's health insurance has FAILED them and for people who have NO health insurance....

get it?
#267 | Posted by woke at 2009-09-30 11:23 AM

Strawmen arguments? Are you the only idiot that doesn't see the connection of proper diet and exercise lowers medical costs? Which is what we are talking about. I know you think it all about the profit and the evil Insurance Co. That short sighted thinking has gotten us into the problem we have today. Is it realy beyond your partisan thick head, less health problems means less costs? Which means less profit for those evil Insurance Companies? THINK.

#277 | Posted by woke at

has absolutely NOTHING to do with his comments that were spot on correct..

try again later

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
#311 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2009-09-30 11:54 AM

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
#311 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2009-09-30 11:54 AM

Two liberal groups are launching a hard-hitting television and Internet ad targeting Baucus that features a young father from Montana. Bing Perrine, 26, in need of a heart operation, uninsured and deeply in debt, looks straight into the camera and asks Baucus, "Whose side are you on?"

The only thing that MIGHT be argued as unconstitutional, would be a mandate to purchase said insurance.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

You're welcome Kanrei

#281 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2009-

if you are talking about the interstate commerce bullshit...its a well known fact that congress of both stripes use this anyway they think they can get away with. I have read that the founders did not intend this to do what politicians have done to it.

Just like you did with Carter and Clinton.....attack our own president, because of politics over country

h?

#289 | Posted by woke at 2009-09-30

SWEET

and only a couple of days after the MASS legislature filled with goddamn democrats WROTE the fuckin book on party over country

Government's annual budget to promote fruit and vegetable consumption is less than
what McDonald's spends on ads in a day.

For danni who is still looking for a link... She claims she can read, let's see if her math skills are just as competent. I'm laying 2 to 1 against. Any bets?

and JUST LOOK at the scrambling here to make sense of democrats who may ACTUALLY Be listening to the people at home who put them there and who could send them back..

WOW>..amazing.....REPRESENTATIVE REPUBLIIC at work......

"Government's annual budget to promote fruit and vegetable consumption is less than
what McDonald's spends on ads in a day."

That = "How many billions have these Gov run Agency's spent on educating people about proper diet and exercise?"

Sorry Crispee, not even close. Just admit you made a foolish statement and move on.

"and JUST LOOK at the scrambling here to make sense of democrats who may ACTUALLY Be listening to the people at home who put them there and who could send them back.."

Except that polls clearly show that is not who they were listening to. They were listening to health care profiteers. Leeches. Scum.

you mean like the poll that rockefeller and sabinow LIED About on percent of drs who want the govt option???

please........

I bet they were also listening to wall street because they were pissed that schumer got so much money from US and they want some of the pie

BUT INSTEAD OF staying here and working on health care

and even talking about the war in afghanistan

and the economic mess

obama heads to get support for AXELROD AND JARRIT who are set to make MILLIONS from olympics..

so I will be waiting for some of the 'haliburtion outrage' from you real soon...lol

cripee

There are things that can be done to help people help themselves, others that cannot, that is why your "arguments" are but strawmen....

You can take a horse to water, but not make him drink....

Yet, you remain focused on things the government can educate about but not dictate to citizens. Why is that?

Could it be you REFUSE to acknowledge that the status quo needs fixed in regard to healthcare?

Are you placing a political ideology over what might be accomplished to help ALL Americans?

If so....perhaps this suits you...AND your buddy AFK

There are none so blind as those who WILL not see.

That = "How many billions have these Gov run Agency's spent on educating people about proper diet and exercise?"

Sorry Crispee, not even close. Just admit you made a foolish statement and move on.

Not even close? Are really this deft? Or are you trying to hide your ignorance and stupidity?

That ONE FUCKING PROGRAM spends millions alone? Just promoting fruits and vegetables. There are hundres of other programs educating people on tobaaco and alcohol alone.

Did you not take my advice and find a fifth grader to explain it to you? Now you prove you can't do simple math as well? Almost five $5.5 million each year on one program alone.

Not that you need to admit you are an idiot for arguing, but proving it as well?

The Confusion of the people with the Federal Government is exactly how we have got to this point of corporate person-hood and a Federal Government doing whatever it wants. The people are the people separate from the government. To confuse the two is to undo what the Founders fought for.

AFK

When do you think YOU will express some OUTRAGE at halliburton/hallichainy?

Rather hypocritical for you neocon FAILURES to say anything after 8 years of war/oil profiteering at the expense of Americans, isn't it?

Cold day in hell, eh?

LMFAO

So crispee

WTF is your argument?

That our government should STOP attempting to educate people to what's in their best interests?

Or

That our govt should spend that money on FAT FARMS and smoking camps to prevent them from harming themselves?

Or

Outlaw cigarettes, alcohol and fatty foods?

We are talking about FIXING the healthcare problems of people losing their coverage when they become sick, the expenses being too much for them and those who are not covered at all....

Your bs is nothing but a diversion.....eh?

Hence....a strawman argument better left for AFTER we have decent, affordable healthcare for all Americans, as do every other industrialized nation in the world...

THINK

-The people are the people separate from the government

Abraham Lincoln thought not.

"But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate...we can not consecrate...we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced.

It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before usthat from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotionthat we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vainthat this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedomand that government: of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

There are none so blind as those who WILL not see.

#326 | Posted by woke at 2009-09-30 12:14 PM

amazzzing grace...

how sweet the sound.

uh...isnt that what you wanted to sing...LOL

THINK

#330 | Posted by woke at 2009-09-30 12:19 PM | Reply | Flag: IRONY

AFK

Every time you post, you show more of your partisanship and ignorance.

Comparing attacking Clinton/Carter to Mass. wanting representation after their senator passed is inane..

Do you really believe everything your neocon master's shills tell you to think? Don't you EVER question the unmitigated bullshit that emanates from unkkkle kkkarl's 'truthcave'.... Don't you ever wonder what that smell is around you.....it's your own bullshit, eh?

LOL

-The people are the people separate from the government

Abraham Lincoln thought not.

I never realized the thoughts of Lincoln superseded the Constitution. Of course, Lincoln did repeatedly and waged war to prove it.

"Yet, you remain focused on things the government can educate about but not dictate to citizens. Why is that?"

Because many are as ignorant and stupid as you. Then when they don't listen and something bad happens, they expect others to make up for their selfish, stupid decisions in life.

The Gov requires speed limit signs, are they dictating they be followed? Or is it just plain common sense you don't drive 100 mph? What happens to those who don't heed the speed limit? They fucking crash and get hurt or die. How is the outcome any different than those who ignore the Gov when educated, including mandating the labeling of all food or drinks we consume? What happens to them WOKE?

"That ONE FUCKING PROGRAM spends millions alone?"

Millions starts with an M dumb ass. You used the term billions in the your original post, that starts with a B.
Do you understand the difference???

If not I can explain it to you.

When do you think YOU will express some OUTRAGE at halliburton/hallichainy?

Rather hypocritical for you neocon FAILURES to say anything after 8 years of war/oil profiteering at the expense of Americans, isn't it?

Cold day in hell, eh?

LMFAO

#329 | Posted by woke at 2009-09-30 12:16 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

if I believed half of what the obama run media said..maybe...or even half of what people here said..maybe

but remember...haliburton was the only company that could have done some of the shit
and there is NEVER mention of slumberger who is larger than haliburtion and who got a lot of contracts as well
but you see...cheney was involved with haliburtion and that was the ONLY reason for the outrage
BY some of the same peolple who STILL ignore the MILLIONS OF DOllars that david axelrod is getting from the SAME COMPANY that will make MILLIONS off of the olympics that barry has USED taxpayer money to jet off and SHOW UP...

so direct your 'whatever' to someone who you can bully and get away with

LISA comes to mind...hee hee

The PEOPLE ARE the government.

Not the giant, global healthcare, oil, energy, war corporations who own and operate nearly ALL repug elected officials and many of the dems too.....

Time to stand up for the PEOPLE and say fk u to those global corps gouging Americans for our healthcare.....

Don't wanna help?

Get the fk out of the way and stfu then.

Otherwise, you are nothing but a SHILL / DUPE for those giant global corporations.......who care NOTHING about you and always place PROFITS BEFORE PEOPLE.

Every time you post, you show more of your partisanship and ignorance.

Comparing attacking Clinton/Carter to Mass. wanting representation after their senator passed is inane..

Do you really believe everything your neocon master's shills tell you to think? Don't you EVER question the unmitigated bullshit that emanates from unkkkle kkkarl's 'truthcave'.... Don't you ever wonder what that smell is around you.....it's your own bullshit, eh?

LOL

#334 | Posted by woke at 2009-09-

Every time you post, you show more of your partisanship and ignorance.

I put that opening statement twice because with that bullshit...you prove you 'got nuttin else'
(he said in his best sopranos voice)

AFK

When do you think YOU will express some OUTRAGE at halliburton/hallichainy?

Rather hypocritical for you neocon FAILURES to say anything after 8 years of war/oil profiteering at the expense of Americans, isn't it?

Cold day in hell, eh?

LMFAO

#329 | Posted by woke at 2009-09-30 12:16 PM |

Funny, I could have sworn some idiot said we are talking about Insurance reform? Who was that?

"The Gov requires speed limit signs, are they dictating they be followed?"

Yes they are as a matter of fact they will fine you if you don't obey them.

Obama run media?

Which would that be?

GENERAL ELECTRIC?

One of the charter members of American war profiteering corporations, eh?

Damn, you are as stupid as your posts make you appear, eh?

LMFAO

Otherwise, you are nothing but a SHILL / DUPE for those giant global corporations.......who care NOTHING about you and always place PROFITS BEFORE PEOPLE.

#339 | Posted by woke at 2009

I hope you were able to watch jon stewart last night because he had ron paul on and even paul talks about corporations and the good that they do as well as the bad that they do do...lol

anyway....every time I hear him again..I begin to think he may be the next REAL alternative to the two parties..

if he just didnt seem so squirely on some issues

GOTTA GO

LUNCH!!!!!!on hump day...ALL RIGHT>..

Yes they are as a matter of fact they will fine you if you don't obey them.

#342 | Posted by danni at 2009-09-30 12

and why is that??

because you can HURT OThers.....
if I CHOOSE to not get health care for me. I hurt noone else

JUST LIKE THAT DAMN SEATBELT intrusion into my privacy....

crispee

again, try to understand what can be done and what cannot

our govt cannot make people lead healthy lives tho they can attempt to educate them not to smoke, do dangerous drugs, eat unhealthy foods, live sedentary lives

however, our government of the people can collectively bargain so that those who need it can get healthcare

the alternative is what we have now....

people dying needlessly

people losing their homes

you prefer that, as long as it isn't YOU, eh?

You better start thinking that it could be YOU or someone YOU care about......

If you have any sense at all....

Otherwise, you are nothing but a SHILL / DUPE for those giant global corporations.......who care NOTHING about you and always place PROFITS BEFORE PEOPLE.

#339 | Posted by woke

Start hammering your own party, you fucking moron.

if I CHOOSE to not get health care for me. I hurt noone else
JUST LIKE THAT DAMN SEATBELT intrusion into my privacy....

#345 | POSTED BY AFKABL2 AT 2009-09-30 12:30 PM

AGAIN you show your ignorance.,

There is a public health, national defense argument to be made to allowing people to spread disease.

There is also a valid argument to be made that those who get healthcare via emergency rooms are being PAID for already in our healthcare costs....

Again, I ask.....are you really this stupid?

Apparently so....eh?

"That ONE FUCKING PROGRAM spends millions alone?"

Millions starts with an M dumb ass. You used the term billions in the your original post, that starts with a B.
Do you understand the difference???

If not I can explain it to you.

#337 | Posted by danni at 2009-09-30 12:25 PM

Explain it to me? It goes back to your pathetic comprehension. I said the gov has spent billions. Does that mean one year or 30 in your ignorant world? Is it really that hard for you to admit you were a fucking fool to retort the first time on my post?

Based on the fact everyone else is smart enough not to question the number should be a hint to your blatant ignorance.

Start hammering your own party, you fucking moron.

#347 | POSTED BY WISGOD AT 2009-09-30 12:33 PM

My party is the American people.

I have voted for dems, indys and repubs.

You, on the other hand will apparently be willing to lose your own nose to spite your face and choose to support a FAILED political ideology over your fellow citizens....

And btw, how many times do you need to hear.....

INSULTS and NAMECALLING are not valid arguments....

eh?

Looks like the good guys lost this battle. Larry you tried so all you can do is say fuck it. Use your local ER as your local clinic. Rack up 200K in doctor bills and declare bankruptcy. They will pay for your medical whether they like it or not.

"our govt cannot make people lead healthy lives tho they can attempt to educate them not to smoke, do dangerous drugs, eat unhealthy foods, live sedentary lives"

Yet you think the Gov should pay for the misfortunes of those who live unhealthy lives? Laughable...

It is obvious you never bothered to read the link I provided and chimed in like a common troll. The link shows where the HIGHEST COSTS to the HC system are and how they can be reduced. If the HC costs are reduced, lo and behold the Gov can INSURE those who don't have coverage just on the savings alone. Which means LOWER INSURANCE COSTS for everyone. Right?

"At that point I still didn't have the citation."

Liar. You had already referenced the article, and claimed it admitted it was "unreliable" and "arbitrary". Then you faked a retraction, and went right back to bashing the reliability, in the same post.

"Nice try to cop out, but you lost."

Too funny. You try to tell me about the rules of debate, and then all you have is a regurgitated point about a 9 yr old study about which you had nothing to refute. I made point after point, you made no point at all, and now you tell me I "lost". What a hoot.

"You are a liar and cheap shot artist."

I've told the truth. You've been caught in multiple lies. No surprise you're tying to blame me. Typical Goatman bullshit.

Yes, I believe we should help the less fortunate.... crispee.....

While you are here shilling for giant global corporations and the richest 1%, who amount to 141,000 people who average 7.4 million a year.

Why is that?

Apparently, you need some moral, as well as government education...eh?

Ok, here ya go...

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Word up son

danni,

Here is just one aspect of Gov. spending. Just on tobacco and alcohol alone. Let's see if this gets through the goalie guarding any facts from getting through to your brain.

According to a CASA news release, other key findings of the study included:

Of the $3.3 trillion total federal and state government spending, $373.9 billion 11.2 percent, more than one of every ten dollars was spent on tobacco, alcohol and illegal and prescription drug abuse and addiction and its consequences.

The federal government spent $238.2 billion (9.6 percent of its budget) on substance abuse and addiction. If substance abuse and addiction were its own budget category at the federal level, it would rank sixth, behind social security, national defense, income security, Medicare and other health programs including the federal share of Medicaid.

State governments spent $135.8 billion (15.7 percent of their budgets) to deal with substance abuse and addiction, up from 13.3 percent in 1998. If substance abuse and addiction were its own state budget category, it would rank second behind spending on elementary and secondary education.

Local governments spent $93.8 billion on substance abuse and addiction (9 percent of their budgets), outstripping local spending for transportation and public welfare.

For every $100 spent by state governments on substance abuse and addiction, the average spent on prevention, treatment and research was $2.38; Connecticut spent the most, $10.39; New Hampshire spent the least, $0.22.

For every dollar the federal and state governments spent on prevention and treatment, they spent $59.83 shoveling up the consequences, despite a growing body of scientific evidence confirming the efficacy and cost savings of science-based interventions.

With respect to children, for every dollar federal and state governments spent on prevention or treatment, they spent $60.25 on the consequences of substance abuse and addiction.

For each dollar in alcohol and tobacco taxes and liquor store revenues that federal and state governments collect, they spend $8.95 on the consequences of substance abuse and addiction.

INSULTS and NAMECALLING are not valid arguments....

eh?

#350 | Posted by woke

All you've done all morning is brow beat anyone who dare challenge the Health Care plan. Look at the thread title and let in sink into that brick you call a head.

#356 | POSTED BY WISGOD AT 2009-09-30 12:48 PM

So. your reply to someone telling you repeatedly that insults and namecalling are not valid arguments is:

more insults and namecalling....

Wow, you are a GENIUS, eh?

LMFAO

While you are here shilling for giant global corporations and the richest 1%, who amount to 141,000 people who average 7.4 million a year.

Why is that

Where have I shilled for anyone you fucking little bitch? Only you and danni are stupid enough to ignore the link between good health and health costs. Because I make that point I am shilling for Global Corporations? Are you really this fucking stupid in life away from here?

crispee

Again, wtf is your point?

Set up alcoholism, smoking, fast food eater's camps for those who choose those things?

Or

Stop trying to educate people?

Or

Just let them DIE and pay for their care through your own costs?

Get a fkn clue son.

Woke,

Can you fucking understand this.

Despite a significant and growing body of knowledge documenting that addiction is a preventable, treatable and manageable disease, and despite the proven efficacy of prevention and treatment techniques, our nation still looks the other way while substance abuse and addiction cause illness, injury, death and crime, savage our children, overwhelm social service systems, impede education -- and slap a heavy and growing tax on our citizens," said Susan E. Foster, CASA's Vice President and Director of Policy Research and Analysis.

"Based on the fact everyone else is smart enough not to question the number should be a hint to your blatant ignorance."

So, if no one questions it then it is a fact???

You never proved your statement, though you've wasted quite a bit of time pretending to.

more insults and namecalling....

followed by "Get a fkn clue son."

Yeah, you should be LYFAO. Everyone else is, watching you, son.

Crispee

If you have a point in there somewhere, I'd certainly like to know WTF it is??

Addiction=BAD

But that doesn't solve the healthcare problems of Americans being forced off coverage due to preexisting illnesses, the continual rising of costs, or those who have no coverage having to be paid for by those of us who do have coverage, or that your kids going to school with sick kids with no coverage might not be good for them?.

Does your point have any substance in regard to healthcare reform to it?

"
crispee

Again, wtf is your point?"

WOKE, Crispee doesn't have a point, he never has a point. Basicly not much more than just a troll.

crispee

Again, wtf is your point?

Obviously it is way to advanced for partisan hacks like you. Seeing as you can't figure it out and refuse to read links designed to educate you, just dummy up and maintain your ignorance. Nothing I can post will help. You and danni deserve each other.

"(lurking right now as we all know)"

Gee...yet another lie.