Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Monday, September 28, 2009

Jon Ward: President Obama's disclosure Friday that Iran had a secret nuclear facility and that he had known about it since taking office introduced a new way of looking at many of his decisions since January. "He played Iran perfectly," said Joe Cirincione, president of the Ploughshares Fund.

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Time will tell if he "played" this perfectly. If he has known it for this long, they are that much further than we have been lead on by? Bush would have known as well? The analogy of letting dope dealers deal until the "big" bust comes to mind. How many people and how much damage happened in the interim vs. Addressing it immediately. To me waiting makes it a game and playing with the importance of nukes should not be a game.

It remains to be seen if Americans will tolerate a thoughtful and patient president over a reactive one. Probably not.

It seems America loves to play the arrogant bully than to talk things out. I still say we will just have to get used to the idea of a nuclear Iran just like George Carlin said.

Larry

We don't need another country with nukes. Disarmament now. And don't let maniacs like them have them ever.A thoughtful president playing games while they keep building up.. Oh yeah, but we knew it... Alll the worse. Get these other "Supporters" to take them out? France has a few planes, let them use a bomb or two. If not, expose them and all the others who say they want world peace and do nothing to protect it.

Radical Muslims I am afraid must die. Sooner the better.

Nooodler,

So to kill a few Radical Muslims we need to murder countless thousands of the most progressive people in the Middle East.

The same logic could be used for the US while Jeff Gannon's idiot girlfriend was whoring himself in the White House. In order to rid the world of that perverted megalomaniac, perhaps the rest of the world should have dropped a few nukes on Texas, DC and Connecitcut? So what if a few million innocent people that couldn't wait to elect a sane president had to die.

There is no easy answer to the Iran problem, but acting like an asshole is usually the wrong one. Too bad Rtards only think with their sphincters.

If he "played them perfectly," is he any closer to keeping them from obtaining nuclear weapons?

I am not ready for an Arab Oil Embargo
I remember the long lines for gas in 1979
Think about the Taliban getting Nukes!
That is much worse than the Mullahs getting Nukes!
Obama was handed a big crappy mess from W.
Greed over National Security, Greed wins every time!

"If he has known it for this long, they are that much further than we have been lead on by? Bush would have known as well?"

One would think Biden and Obama being the Chair and Ranking members of a Senate Foreign Committee, would have known yeats ago. Had they done their jobs and actually held hearings or at least attended scheduled meetings, this may not be news today.

Boy oh boy, that B-Rock sure has the Iranians over a barrel! He knew about this the whole time and did nothing...That sure showed them!
He's a joke.

Oh, Obama and this admin do not care about our troops. They can't even get their GI Bill money to them. That shows he doesn't care about the troops, right libs?

i think the iaea gives a country a deadline of six months before operation to disclose any new nuclear sites. iran wasn't gonna have this thing operational for another 18-- so they didn't break any rules. so many people look at it as simply more twisted untruths coming from the good ol' propaganda machine of the united states of israel.

the president that will have the guts to dump funding to israel and all those other foreign countries will be a true american hero indeed.

Why does anybody give a damm whether they develop nukes?

They can't use them if they get them, no more than Israel or anybody else can without instant payback.

We already have some 2 dozen Ohio Class attack subs with 2 dozen each Trident missles on hair trigger all the time just waiting to destroy any spot on the planet!

So just what's the big deal?

Operation Ajax

They can't use them if they get them, no more than Israel or anybody else can without instant payback.

Of course, you're talking about people who's highest aspiration is to blow themselves up for allah as long as they take some "infidels" with them.

Yeah. Keeping China and Russia in the dark was a master stroke. Kudos!

For those of you enjoying the Kool-Aid, that was sarcasm.

I wonder if the Ruskies knew about this before the missle sheild agreement. Talk about a chess match.

Sorry. Doesn't add up. If he knew about the supersecret Iranian facility, why did he send his dumbass Vice President out earlier this month to say that Iran is no threat whatsoever?

This is the most dysfunctional White House I've ever seen. And considering it's coming on the heels of the Bush Administration, that is amazing indeed. But there's no shortage of DR libtards who think that this is "thoughtful" and "patient" as opposed to yet another blunder.

Not very bright, the libbies here.

Should have read

'WAS played by Iran perfectly"

Taxman,

The Russians have all the cards in this one.

Israeli PM visits Russia
www.leaderpost.com

I have little doubt that the Russians are in bed with Iran to make weapons, from the publicly stated amounts of uranium manufacture they couldn't keep a reactor open, the Russian BOSS knew there was to be more. The question everyone was asking who was going to supply it, now we know.
www.rferl.org
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/ intrel/bush/iran1.htm

The western threats are gutless....
"U.S. President Barack Obama said in July that Tehran must respond to the six international negotiators' proposal to halt nuclear activities in exchange for trade incentives by the end of September. France and Germany said they would seek harsher sanctions for the Islamic Republic if it turned down the offer."
en.rian.ru

But don't worry, the Olympics in Chicago WILL be saved.
http://www.nbcchicago.com/ news/local-beat/Obama-Heading- to-Copenhagen-62317937.html

"Oh, Obama and this admin do not care about our troops. They can't even get their GI Bill money to them. That shows he doesn't care about the troops, right libs?"

I agree, it's not like they sent them into war based on lies or with inferior equipment. Shoot he could even cut the veteran benefits for them when they return or backdoor draft them, that is showing the troops love!!

LM

It cracks me up how the righties can't believe that Obama is doing this correctly. He is firmly putting ahckmahdinjob in a small box to maneuver. Obama will have a larger "coalition of the willing", if Iran continues to defy, more so than when Bush fumbled 9/11 and couldn't get shit for support since he choose to attack wrong country.

LM

Quite a crystal ball you have LM. I ask you, what kind of "coalition of the willing" can a guy put together, who just got through saying that Iran isn't a threat to anybody?

Gwynne Dyer: Odds of an Israeli or U.S. attack on Iran just got shorter

........

Yet it is still not clear that Iran is actually seeking nuclear weapons. The religious leadership regularly declares that they are "un-Islamic", and presumably takes its own decrees seriously.

On the other hand, the country has been facing the threat of attack by the United States or Israel, using conventional or even nuclear weapons, for decades.

During the 1980s, the actual attacks on Iran were carried out by Saddam Hussein's Iraq, but with Washington's blessing. It was the Reagan administration that gave Saddam access to the poison gas that saved him from defeat, and Reagan also lent Baghdad the US Air Force photo-interpreters, who told Saddam which Iranian targets to hit.

It was the trigger-happy crew of the U.S. missile cruiser Vincennes, operating illegally in Iranian waters, who mistakenly shot down Iran Air flight 655 in 1988, killing all 290 civilian passengers aboard.

And while neither the U.S. nor its allies have attacked Iran directly for the past 20 years, the rhetoric about Iran coming out of Washington has been consistent: "rogue state", "axis of evil", and "all the options are on the table."

So it's hardly surprising that the Iranians decided on a backup site for uranium enrichment in case their main enrichment plant at Nazran were to be destroyed.

We already have some 2 dozen Ohio Class attack subs with 2 dozen each Trident missles on hair trigger all the time just waiting to destroy any spot on the planet!

Do they still have MIRVs or did the last round of arms reduction talks get rid of those?

Bush would have known as well

Heck of a job Bushie. 8 years of letting axis of evil members build nukes at their leisure, knowing apologists like 101 would still sanctify your inaction.

If Reagan hadn't committed treason by arming the mad ayatollahs, Saddam would have defeated them and not have been forced to annex Kuwait in order to pay for his war. Bush1 would never have had to send troops to saudistan and bin laden would never have attacked on 9-11. Even from the grave, Reagan's political corruption stinks as bad as his corpse.

TEHRAN, Iran Iran tested its most advanced missiles Monday to cap two days of war games, raising more international concern and stronger pressure to quickly come clean on the newly revealed nuclear site Tehran was secretly constructing.

State television said the powerful Revolutionary Guard, which controls Iran's missile program, successfully tested upgraded versions of the medium-range Shahab-3 and Sajjil missiles. Both can carry warheads and reach up to 1,200 miles (2,000 kilometers), putting Israel, U.S. military bases in the Middle East, and parts of Europe within striking distance.

I think Iran might not have gotten the memo, that they were "played perfectly".

If Reagan hadn't committed treason by arming the mad ayatollahs, Saddam would have defeated them and not have been forced to annex Kuwait in order to pay for his war. Bush1 would never have had to send troops to saudistan and bin laden would never have attacked on 9-11. Even from the grave, Reagan's political corruption stinks as bad as his corpse.

#24 | Posted by northguy3 at 2009-09-28 11:29 AM | Reply | Flag: DR Repeatable

"Quite a crystal ball you have LM. I ask you, what kind of "coalition of the willing" can a guy put together, who just got through saying that Iran isn't a threat to anybody?"

I'll let you answer this one yourself......since you did for me just a few posts later......

"TEHRAN, Iran Iran tested its most advanced missiles Monday to cap two days of war games, raising more international concern and stronger pressure to quickly come clean on the newly revealed nuclear site Tehran was secretly constructing."

International is key, not American and six guys from Brittain, 2 Aussies and 1 Italian.

LM

"It cracks me up how the righties can't believe that Obama is doing this correctly. He is firmly putting ahckmahdinjob in a small box to maneuver.'

Which box is that LM? This was the same rhetoric from six months ago. Both the WH and SD echoed the exaxct choice words. Both included the Misssle Shield as a bargaining chip and insisted Iran must act, blah, blah, blah before any decision is finalized. Again, is the direction that Obama spoke of back in March?

Glad all that foreign experience of Obama and Biden is finally starting to show. Just a re-reun from their worthless Committee days?

Bush fumbled 9/11 and couldn't get shit for support since he choose to attack wrong country.

LM

So...What country would you have supported attacking LM? Or better yet,what was the right country you wanted Bush to attack?

How many people and how much damage happened in the interim vs. Addressing it immediately. To me waiting makes it a game and playing with the importance of nukes should not be a game.

#1 | Posted by NonDLR

What's a few more 10s of thousands of gallons of innocent blood on American hands based on the possibility that the Iranians develop their own nuclear strike force, and the even remoter possibility that they will deploy (i.e., launch). No biggie. I don't have to watch, just catch the highlights on Fox between plays on Monday Night Football.

You know, I think that my neighbor just bought a new .357. He's got a pretty big mouth, talks a lot of trash, he's kinda violent and he just got out of jail for assault. And he's like Baptist to boot. I don't like him. I don't trust him. Maybe I'll just go over and kill him before in one of his fits he puts a bullet through my wall. And I'll cap his wife. And his kids. What the hell, I'll kill his dog too. And burn his house down. Problem solved.

Of course, you're talking about people who's highest aspiration is to blow themselves up for allah as long as they take some "infidels" with them.

#13 | Posted by Redman

Yes. Everybody in Iran, all men young and old, all women young and old, all boys and girls, every single one of them have only this single purpose in life: blow themselves up.

They have no technology.

They have no art.

They have no civilization.

They have no lives or losses or pain or joy.

They are legion, single minded: blow themselves up.

#31 | Posted by ZOT at 2009-09-28 11:42 AM | Reply | Flag: Dick Cheney impersonation.

#31 | Posted by ZOT at 2009-09-28 11:42 AM | Reply | Flag: Dick Cheney impersonation.

Seymour Hersh reader?

International is key, not American and six guys from Brittain, 2 Aussies and 1 Italian.

LM

#28 | Posted by Liberal_Mongrel
* * * *

I see. So in your world, the stronger Iran gets, the more likely international cooperation becomes. Like if they're able to reach Paris or Berlin with a nuclear-tipped missile, we'll be able to get more French and German help THEN, as opposed to NOW.

Quite a fantasy world you're living in. Maybe you should bone up on some European history. Books abound. It was obvious from the Hitler thread that you don't know anything. But ignorance is curable.

The average citizen has no clue to what Obama is doing. On Drudge there are some far smarter people than me that don't have a clue. So, either he is the most brilliant president or, the scariest thing to come along. As he keeps me in the dark and wants my blind trust, that's not what I want in my leader. Nor do I think the rest of the world. Go along, change, come on now people, trust the messiah??? Somebody needs to speak without a forked tongue. If Iran is not following stuff like nuclear weapons growing possibilities. The end is nearer then we all think if the "world" doesn't come down harshly upon them. I am sick of wait till they screw us in order to act. The process of pre-emptive strikes are critical to saving lives. Either get on board or leave.

They have no technology.

They have no art.

They have no civilization.

They have no lives or losses or pain or joy.

They are legion, single minded: blow themselves up.

#32 | Posted by ZOT
* * * *

It's not the Iranian people who will have access to the nuclear weapons. It's their president. Maybe you've heard of him.

"I see. So in your world, the stronger Iran gets, the more likely international cooperation becomes. Like if they're able to reach Paris or Berlin with a nuclear-tipped missile, we'll be able to get more French and German help THEN, as opposed to NOW.
Quite a fantasy world you're living in. Maybe you should bone up on some European history. Books abound. It was obvious from the Hitler thread that you don't know anything. But ignorance is curable."

Your the one who says stronger, I say more ostracized by the international community will weaken the country. When sanctions and embargo's are in place one can effectively control the growth and develop of a nation. Look at cuba, it's a freaking time warp there. Our sanctions have worked beautifully there, no need for senseless death and destruction(american that is). I am sure many cubans have perished because they cannot/are not as developed as the rest of the world. Look at Iraq, we found our sanctions really did work there, prevented WMD's from being developed(excluding teh ones reagan gave saddam).

I see your still smarting of your hitler debacle....when your a liar and get called on it for all to see it really sucks doesn't it!! Funny thing is that you would bring it up, can you post some more quotes and then add words and change the topic of what it relates to .......funny shit!!

LM

"The process of pre-emptive strikes are critical to saving lives. Either get on board or leave"

So Pearl Harbor wasn't a sneak attack and was 100% ok.....please LEAVE!!

LM

rightisright meant to say, "if iran gets nukes, which they have said via religious decree all along is unislamic and by developing them they would undermine the integrity of all their own future religious decrees than their figurehead president who has no real power except to make speeches might just know that they do and he might someday put in an offical request to the ruling mullahs to use them when his country comes under attack by israel."

The on e that harbored teh Taliban when we were attacked, the one that is asking for more troops now, the one where the Taliban still have their strongest presence.......if you don't know which I am referring to then your a lil too Crispee.

"Which box is that LM?" It's called the box that will sanction and embargo tehm and prevent new technologies from entering the country and will seveerly degrade their way of life. Just like it did for Iraq and has done in Cuba. Extremely effective and not a single American life need be lost.

LM

The world realizes Obama is week and the headlines prove it:

Iran conducts third round of missile tests...

'Could reach Israel'...

Revolutionary Guards begin war games...

Venezuela exploring uranium deposits with Russia...

China to display upgraded missiles in parade...

India raises nuclear stakes; Can make high-yield weapons...

North Korea's New Constitution Reinforces Leader's Power

Brazil VP says country should build nuclear arms

Russia, Cuba Nuclear Research Co-Op

Oh yes...Obama is playing it perfectly
--- The Left ---

Unless we are willing to go to war with China, sooner or later Iran will develop nukes. The question really is, how are we going to live with that.

Since the entire purpose of Iran's nuclear program is to give them a position of importance, we need to undercut that. I think the best thing to do is to ostracize Iran as much as possible. To indicate that, if they choose to continue with their retoric, there will be very few nations who will deal with them. Most Western nations are already on board with that. Most, if not all, of Iran's neighbors are leery of their efforts. Russia is very concerned about the Muslim population in their country, so they aren't inclined to cut Iran any slack. China is the prime holdout - and that won't change.

Every approach to this issue has more negatives than positives. Our foremost concern should be that we minimize our cost, of various kinds, on this issue.

Well, I hope it works out. I'm glad to hear that using WMD's is Unislamic. Never mind that there are millions of Islamists who feel otherwise.

But I'll defer to your good judgment, and Obama's and Biden's, that as Iran gets stronger, they're actually getting weaker. Peace in our time! Gobama!

"...I say more ostracized by the international community will weaken the country."

Speaking of "ostracized," Dear Leader isn't doing such a hot job. I'm sure he has endeared the U.S. to the Poles and Czechs. And, the British are seeing the light:

www.telegraph.co.uk

The French have him pegged:

http://biggovernment.com/2009/ 09/25/sarkozy-mocks-obama-at- un-security-council-hello-big- media/

But Dear Leader certainly loves himself and is admired by school children:

MMM! MMM! MM!
Barack Hussein Obama!

Iran conducts third round of missile tests...

Revolutionary Guards begin war games...

Venezuela exploring uranium deposits with Russia...

China to display upgraded missiles in parade...

India raises nuclear stakes; Can make high-yield weapons...

North Korea's New Constitution Reinforces Leader's Power

Brazil VP says country should build nuclear arms

Russia, Cuba Nuclear Research Co-Op

#42 | Posted by KBM

Solution:

Preemptive strikes for all!! We gots plenty for everybody.

"Speaking of "ostracized," Dear Leader isn't doing such a hot job. I'm sure he has endeared the U.S. to the Poles and Czechs. And, the British are seeing the light:"

Really Jest, how about this little tidbit....

"The latest Pew Global Attitudes Survey of international confidence in Obama's leadership on foreign affairs shows strikingly high approval levels for the president in many parts of the world 94 percent in Kenya, 93 percent in Germany, 88 percent in Canada and Nigeria, 77 percent in India, 76 percent in Brazil, 71 percent in Indonesia, and 62 percent in China for example. The Pew survey of 21 countries reveals an average level of 71 percent support for President Obama, compared to just 17 percent for George W. Bush in 2008"

Good call on your ostracized call for Obama....P.S. Freedom Fries....when did you start loving the French?

LM

Yes. Everybody in Iran, all men young and old, all women young and old, all boys and girls, every single one of them have only this single purpose in life: blow themselves up.

Yes. And the leadership in Iran has recently shown nothing but concern and compasion for the well being of their people.

Russia is very concerned about the Muslim population in their country, so they aren't inclined to cut Iran any slack. China is the prime holdout - and that won't change.

#43 | Posted by AILtd

Yes. Here is an example of how deeply concerned the Russians are:

"Russia to complete Iran nuclear plant in 2009 -Tass

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia will complete Iran's first nuclear power plant in 2009, Itar-Tass news agency quoted the head of Russia's state nuclear corporation as saying on Thursday.

The launch of the Bushehr plant's nuclear reactor has frequently been delayed. Russian and Iranian officials have given different dates for the start-up. Iran's foreign minister said last year the plant would launch in mid-2008.

Russia has already delivered nuclear fuel under a $1 billion contract to build the Bushehr plant on the Gulf coast in southwest Iran. Russia has blamed previous delays on problems with receiving payment from Iran.

"Work is ongoing and certain difficulties which arose, including those connected with timely financing, are being resolved due to joint efforts between the Iranian purchaser and the Russian contractor," Tass quoted Sergei Kiriyenko, the head of Russia's Rosatom nuclear corporation, as saying.

"Next year we should conclude all the work," Kiriyenko was quoted as saying. Kiriyenko was in Caracas, Venezuela, accompanying President Dmitry Medvedev on a visit."

Source:

in.reuters.com

"The latest Pew Global Attitudes Survey of international confidence in Obama's leadership on foreign affairs shows strikingly high approval levels for the president in many parts of the world 94 percent in Kenya, 93 percent in Germany, 88 percent in Canada and Nigeria, 77 percent in India, 76 percent in Brazil, 71 percent in Indonesia, and 62 percent in China for example. The Pew survey of 21 countries reveals an average level of 71 percent support for President Obama, compared to just 17 percent for George W. Bush in 2008"

#47 | Posted by Liberal_Mongrel

And the world still loves Bill Clinton. But he's still just a big wiener in the US.

"P.S. Freedom Fries....when did you start loving the French?"

French fries aren't French. Neither is french toast.

Wow... talk about a stretch. What are you Liberals smoking these days???

Ahmadenijad is playing Obama... actually he's poking him in the eye is what he's doing. You guys are just laughable.

#45 | Posted by jestgettinalong

Yet every European poll I've seen has Obama with a higher approval rating that he has in the U.S.

Whatever Obama's moves are, he does seem to have the continued respect of Europeans. Primarily because they keep comparing him to Bush.

The on e that harbored teh Taliban when we were attacked, the one that is asking for more troops now, the one where the Taliban still have their strongest presence.......if you don't know which I am referring to then your a lil too Crispee.

"Which box is that LM?" It's called the box that will sanction and embargo tehm and prevent new technologies from entering the country and will seveerly degrade their way of life. Just like it did for Iraq and has done in Cuba. Extremely effective and not a single American life need be lost.

LM

Here was your brilliant post which I rertorted with the question to you.

(Bush fumbled 9/11 and couldn't get shit for support since he choose to attack wrong country.)

Now your english major written post states Bush attacked the wrong country meaning Afghanistan was the wrong country. I asked which country would have been the right country or which country would you have chosen? Again, based on your post. I would hate to think you foolishly implied we didn't get support for the Afghan war after 9-11 because of Iraq.

As for your predictable "box" theory... I believe Obamas mentor put an embargo on Iran about 30 years ago, and all those item you claim sanctions would prevent, is a bit late now, don't you think?

#49 | Posted by ZOT

The Russians learned one thing from us - don't confuse business with politics.

The Russians have been holding back on that reactor because they want control of its operations. They also have a problem with Chinese influence in Iran. But they _are_ very concerned with the Muslim population in their country and, to date, have acted more out of that concern than through any other consideration. Well, except for their opposition to us. Hence their willingness to support a boycott of Iran.

"Good call on your ostracized call for Obama....

Kenya?? Nigeria?? China?? Brazil?? You forgot to bring in Cuba, Venezuela, along with all the other socialists and communists. And you REALLY want want to call his approval in those countries a PLUS? Dear Leader isn't the messiah you all thought he was gonna be and our allies are discovering it. That was the whole point.

"P.S. Freedom Fries....when did you start loving the French?"

I haven't...except THIS one. That rotten Zarkozy...siiiigh

www.slideshare.net


"Chinese influence in Iran"

Iran has lots of what China wants:

Black Gold!

"And the world still loves Bill Clinton. But he's still just a big wiener in the US."

I don't wanna know what Monica and yourself think of him.....

He is easliy the best president over the last 25 years....like it or not. Looking back at these tidbits would make us long for this person now, regardless if democrat or republican....

1)he moved us from Bush #1's record deficit to a surplus!! (generated 3 surpluses in a row, first since the 50's).

2) He payed down national debt

3) In his first seven years over 21 million jobs created(that's 3 million plus a year, Bush averaged 300,000 year)

4)Unemployment from Bush#1 was 7.5% when Clinton left office it was 4.1%. (Bush#2 left it was 9.7%)

Those are just the quick easy numbers.....your a fool if you don't long for results like CLINTON generated!!

LM

Unbelievable that we don't look at reality. Let the poles talk and respond. Poles always take into account what we have no clue about. Just how well they speak. More interested in Sexiest man alive! If the press gave ol' W half as much love they offer the messiah with no past, he too would have been liked abroad, but when every major news source is anti republican, your poles will go down. The world should have been stepping to the plate whether W was a goof or not. Shame on them and shame on us for not making people responsible. W included on other aspects. But you history revisionist want to forget some pretty key facts and blow by old un resolved issues. Immigration, nukes with maniacs, and welfare instability? But sure what is the new cause. Health care for all. Fix other problems first as they are part of the bigger problem. But Obama is so almighty and to act so quickly and provide him with headlines like he pulled some great victory on this is standard news media BS and we should all question it. Iran is playing a deadly game I don't think I would play if I could take the board away until they want to follow rules.

"Kenya?? Nigeria?? China?? Brazil?? You forgot to bring in Cuba, Venezuela, along with all the other socialists and communists. And you REALLY want want to call his approval in those countries a PLUS? Dear Leader isn't the messiah you all thought he was gonna be and our allies are discovering it. That was the whole point."

Kenya, Nigeria and Brazil are socialist countries?? Must be news to these democratically elected leaders of their countries.

And yes, your correct, it was I not pew who choose to survey these participants.

Of course our apporval rating being a good one in any country is a positive, how could it not be.
I don't care if China rating is high, not sure why they are the root of all evil. They are the country who is currently keeping us afloat. They helped the US in WWI and WWII. You don't complain about Germany, France, England, Japan, and they have all attacked us. China never has, just idealogically different, but that is obviously the most important thing!!

LM

He is easliy the best president over the last 25 years....like it or not.

#57 | Posted by Liberal_Mongrel

Yes... No... Sometimes...

He is still reviled by many.

President Clinton may have been a good president (not wanting to debate the merits pro or con here), but Citizen Clinton was a slut.

"If the press gave ol' W half as much love they offer the messiah with no past, he too would have been liked abroad, but when every major news source is anti republican, your poles will go down. The world should have been stepping to the plate whether W was a goof or not. Shame on them and shame on us for not making people responsible. W included on other aspects. But you history revisionist want to forget some pretty key facts and blow by old un resolved issues. Immigration, nukes with maniacs, and welfare instability"

Headline news is not politiacally motivated, Fox sure is not liberal, and the whole notion that MSM is liberal is pretty amusing since it leadership donated more money to republicans than democrats. The world was ready to act with us, no doubt about it, until W pulled this whole al queda=sadam=taliban b.s. then people with brains said, no. Who is a history revisionsit, other than RisR rewriting quotes?

Wasn't it reagan that created this whole illegal mess(I pardon all of you)?

How bout the border fence, is that done yet(ask SD how effective a fence is)?

The biggest threat on this planet for the last 20 years has been dpnk, both clinton and bush 2 dropped teh balll on them. This is the country that the world needs to ban together and figure out how to resolve. If there was anyone, other than commies and asians in direct threat of dpnk right now, this would be more pressing than iran.

LM

"Must be news to these democratically elected leaders of their countries."

Right...so was Mao, Ahmadinejad, Kruschev, Kim etc., etc. In fact, they were so popular most of them received 100% of the vote.

"President Clinton may have been a good president (not wanting to debate the merits pro or con here), but Citizen Clinton was a slut."

I have no problem with that statement....

LM

"Right...so was Mao, Ahmadinejad, Kruschev, Kim etc., etc. In fact, they were so popular most of them received 100% of the vote"

Are you really this dumb? You claimed Kenya, Nigeria, and Brazil to be socialist, yet they are democracies. I pointed that out and you somehow think I referred to communist countries. This is why obama needs to increase the school year!!

Come on jester, keep up please.....

LM

And Iran promptly said go pound sand and look at our new missile. Obama strong and cunning? What an incredible farce! Look beyond some partisan hack columnist and one will see that other countries are laughing and pulling away. Just because some bonehead with the management experience of a new McDonald's fry cook becomes president doesn't mean that the world will come following like lap dogs.

He's a joke.
#9 | Posted by 101Chairborne

The jokes on you Chairpoodle. Time to wake up and wipe the drewl from yer chin.

Sure pisses off the wingding extremists that President Obama is doing better than a lot of white Presidents could do at this stage of the GAME. Considering the state the country was/is in and the problems Obama is tackling from Health Care Reform to near Financial Meltdown to Nukes in Iran when he came to power he has done quite well!

As for your scurrilous charge that Obama doesn't care for the troops...well, you are obviously a day late a dollar short on that issue. Obama did NOT send his troops to war unprepared for battle. BUSH did that. In fact, Bush even sent them to the wrong WAR! And Obama did not deny them any payments. BTW- that NEW GI bill was made available to the Troops by Jim Webb a Democrat thank you very much...where were you Rethugs then? Under yer beds with plastic and duct tape? And as I understand that payment issue it was an issue at the VA which has already been addressed and emergency payments are already scheduled.

But, do carry on with the Lie of the Day. Oh and maybe you should learn how to play a little chess. We know all you can do is Saber Rattle but it seems difficult for you Rethugs to be able to think more than one strategic move ahead.

But, Yes We Democrats Can!

Mooo HA HA HA

GOBAMA!

"What an incredible farce! Look beyond some partisan hack columnist and one will see that other countries are laughing and pulling away."

For those who can't seem to take their own advice.....

"The latest Pew Global Attitudes Survey of international confidence in Obama's leadership on foreign affairs shows strikingly high approval levels for the president in many parts of the world 94 percent in Kenya, 93 percent in Germany, 88 percent in Canada and Nigeria, 77 percent in India, 76 percent in Brazil, 71 percent in Indonesia, and 62 percent in China for example. The Pew survey of 21 countries reveals an average level of 71 percent support for President Obama, compared to just 17 percent for George W. Bush in 2008"

So where are they running to Jim? What are they laughing at, the coalition of teh willing that the decider was able to create? Now that was a farce!

LM

Obama played Iran??

If it wasn't so freakin scary it would be laughable.

If he played them why did he take out the missile defense system in EU??

And now they are blowing off rockets right and left to show how far they can go?

And Obama is Playing Iran??

If Bush knew about this second plant--that would explain the MDS being put in place--in addition to keeping Russia at bay--keeping Iran at bay. And if NK gets a rocket that reaches the US Pacific Coast--they will certainly be able to reach the EU going the other way.

But wait--oh--shit--Obama took out the system--gonna' concentrate on short range defense.

NOT!

And Biden the experienced one--where is he??

He's saying Iran is okey dokey!

Unfreackinbelevable...

Isn't it a little early to tell if Obama played Iran perfectly? They continue their their nuclear build up. I'd say perfection would be if Iran abandoned their nuclear program, not continued it.

What do you expect from a left-leaning rag like the Washington Times? That newspaper has been in the can for Obama from day one.

Do what?

The Washington Times is the Rev. Sun Myung Moon's right-wing newspaper?

Oh, never mind then.

LM--why not compare Bush polls after 9/11?

Obama is down to 50% in this country and falling. It's not going up.

He is losing independants, the moderate repubs and some in his own party.

China never has, just idealogically different, but that is obviously the most important thing!!

LM

#59 | Posted by Liberal_Mongrel
* * * *

Never-heard-of-the-Korean-War- Flag.

Save us all the trouble, LM, and just tell us: is there ANY part of world history you're not totally ignorant on?

Actually Goatie is right! And on topic! Wow! Ok, it has happened before...

We all "knew" Iran was lying and has been for along time. But you don't jump up and down and yell LIAR! in their face (oh wait...) if you want to get the Community of Nations behind you. You best have yoru ducks in order.

Yes, it is way too early to tell. But, the rightie tighies sure love to second guess Obama don't they? Haven't they learned yet?

From where I sit it sure looks like Iran is on the diplomatic ropes...for a "change". (oh, crap there is THAT word again). And we haven't even threatened to attack them lately! Impressive! Of course, they are doing it to themselves. All Obama has had to do is back off and let them implode. (gee... I wonder where he learned THAT stategy?) They do need to respond now in some positive way or they better have a good story. Even Russia is not happy with them anymore. Britain, France, Germany, China and Russia have all demanded that Iran prove it's peaceful intentions.

I call that progress!

He's saying Iran is okey dokey!

Unfreackinbelevable...

#68 | Posted by MURPHY

Like you would know this? Are they attacking anyone right now? Which sovereign nation are THEY currently occupying?

Iran is effectively contained. What more do you want? An occupying force in Iran? Get over it. We should speak softly and carry a big stick. WE don't need to attack every country we disagree with. Things will not ALWAYS go our way. WE know they were lying and now they are caught in the lie. Sometimes there are better ways than Saber Rattling. Sometimes these things take time.

As Goatee says... it is a bit too soon to tell. AS an infamous person once said, "The true history of my administration will be written 50 years from now, and you and I will not be around to see it."

We didn't play them; this all comes down to Russia and China. Since neither of these countries views Iran in its current configuration as a threat, we will need to convince them to go against their own financial interest. Give Russia a little time and they will come to the conclusion that Iran still isn't a threat.

so how do all of the iran missle tests show us just how great he played them...

what a crock...

and as far as polls...no president had such a wide range of poll numbers as truman had...
pretty interesting stuff..

truman that is..>NOT obama selling israel up the river..or is it down the river

well thrown under the iranian nuclear bus for sure.

"Never-heard-of-the-Korean-
War- Flag.

Save us all the trouble, LM, and just tell us: is there ANY part of world history you're not totally ignorant on?"

Wow,..... where once the US/UN interevened and attacked a member of china's treaty orgs they responded and as many have pointed out there was no official UN responsibility to act since it was a civil war. China did nothing until teh US interevened, attacked and continued north past 38th parallel into NK. Like I said, they never have atacked us only responded to one of our attacks. So, again we were the aggressor, and they countered.....but yeah I am the ignorant one on history. That hitler thing just burns you up inside doesn't liar!! You've proved your historical proficiency, and it's pathetic.

LM

Give Russia a little time and they will come to the conclusion that Iran still isn't a threat.

You really think that? Why would you? Unless you are just being a partisan.

Still not willing to give your President credit for bringing Russia around? And you actually think Russia will now be OK allowing a country with nuclear capabilities and missiles that can reach Moscow to ignore the UN resolutions?

Hmm I don't think you can see to Putin's soul either.

^.^

"It remains to be seen if Americans will tolerate a thoughtful and patient president over a reactive one. Probably not."

A thoughful and patient President? How about a President without an ounce of foreign policy experience who thinks that it's a good idea to play nice with the regional bully who wants to "wipe Israel off the map" ...

John B.
www.politicscity.com

^.^

"So to kill a few Radical Muslims we need to murder countless thousands of the most progressive people in the Middle East."

Perhaps things would be a bit better off if those "most progressive people in the Middle East" would step up, and make sure that the more radical among them would not:

- get themselves elected to high office in places like Iran

- would *continue* to stand against the radical mullahs when the radicals *do* get elected to high office

- would stand up and say that the idiocy of bombing and terror-led jihad in places like Gaza, Lebanon, and the rest of the Islamo-fascist world are not the views of the majority of those who call themselves muslims

After that, and only after that, maybe we can think about calling these people progressive ... as to "the most progressive people in the Middle East", talk to us again in about fifty years.

John B.
www.politicscity.com

History doomed to repeat and all that..

When some American city gets leveled with a nuke.. then the survivors will buy into the notion that there are in fact evil people in the world, and they don't get less evil when you just talk while they build a nuclear weapon capable of killing numbers of you.

Obama is a more narcissistic Jimmy Carter.. and possibly even more naive..

Come on 2012.. get this clown out.

"wipe Israel off the map" ...

Israel's racial profiling policy seems to be doing the same from day 1 ~ it seems to me ~ in retrospect as an "Exodus" theme lover still?

www.jerusalemites.org

How about a President without an ounce of foreign policy experience...

Being patient and thoughtful and not threatening to attack once a week IS different for you isn't it?

Yeah how about that? You remember how will it works with a Prez who has no foriegn policy experience and then acts like he is Yosemite Sam right?

You member?

You member!

how will = how well

^.^

Actually Donner, a President who spent some years as a governor of a state that dealt with foreign leaders and corporations has a lot more foreign policy experience than a man who became President after less than one term in the US Senate.

Bush-hating is not the issue here. People are just going to have to get used to the fact that Bush is not here to kick around and blame things on ... I just wish that the people in the White House would get that through their thick heads too...

John B.
www.politicscity.com

"How about a President without an ounce of foreign policy experience who thinks that it's a good idea to play nice with the regional bully who wants to "wipe Israel off the map" ..."

Play nice, as opposed to the hardball that last dude tried. Sorry bro, but not talking got us two enrichment sites, that's not foreign policy that is pathetic. Actually addressing the problem and putting it out in the public for all to see who is doing what, is the right course of action. The bush head in the sand (ostrich diplomacy) has proven to be a failure, see a dpnk/iran/venezuela.......

LM

"When some American city gets leveled with a nuke.. then the survivors will buy into the notion that there are in fact evil people in the world, and they don't get less evil when you just talk while they build a nuclear weapon capable of killing numbers of you"

So why didn't the conservatives act, they had 8 years to deal with it, and instead of talk played ostrich diplomacy!!

LM

When some American city gets leveled with a nuke.. then the survivors will buy into the notion that there are in fact evil people in the world, and they don't get less evil when you just talk while they build a nuclear weapon capable of killing numbers of you.

#81 | Posted by nmg_no

Yep! That object lesson was already demonstrated amply not once, but twice, on two cities.

And the world learned this object lesson so well that it proceeded to detonate over 2000 more nuclear weapons of varying yields above and below the ground, indiscriminately, and uncaring of the other life that was being vaporized during these "experiments." Who knows how many were popped off exo-atmosphere.

Who is more evil, nmg_no? Those who have them and have used them and threaten those who dare to create the same? Or those who want parity with the rest of the world in their own perceived self defense?

Why does Israel rate higher on the life scale than any other country to the extent that the US will be its proxy and kill more people than the Jews themselves had taken across Europe during WWII?

What insanity continues to grip the human species?

And so now India is being heard from too about "high yield" nukes.

Terrorists in our cities...

Thanks, Pres O....I feel *so* much safer now. Glad to hear you are getting me some health care for the nuclear radiation burns we'll be suffering.

/endsarc

donnerboy,

If we pulled our anti-missile system out of eastern europe in exchange for the Russians getting on board and this release of the hidden site is cover for Russia changing their position, then well played by Obama.

The thing is, every indication is Russian had no idea and we only came out with it before Iran did (seems they knew we knew).

So no I don't have faith in Obama or anyone to get Russia to go against their interest unless they get something in return of equal or greater value.

Since China has a veto in the UN, I don't know what we plan to get them to change their position. The site alone really hasn't changed anything in a practical way since they already had been in violation of the UN mandates.

When some American city gets leveled with a nuke.. then the survivors will buy into the notion that there are in fact evil people in the world, and they don't get less evil when you just talk while they build a nuclear weapon capable of killing numbers of you. NutMeG

How will that nuclear device arive in the US city?

How will that nuclear device arive in the US city?

Posted by AndyB62 at 2009-09-28 06:30 PM | Reply

Uranium Projectile Services DUH

Larry

How will that nuclear device arive in the US city?

Posted by AndyB62

a small device already has arrived according to some of those who weren't able to check out OK building remains like the esteemed Brig General Ben Partin wanted to

video.google.com

Neither Iran nor North Korea have ICBMs. So again, how will these nuclear devices arive in a US city?

Actually Donner, a President who spent some years as a governor of a state that dealt with foreign leaders and corporations has a lot more foreign policy experience than a man who became President after less than one term in the US Senate.

Bush-hating is not the issue here.

But Obama hating is the issue right? You cannot see that that he is making headway with our allies and "enemies" without having to threatening to attack anyone? You cannot see that he is letting Iran dig it's own hole that it now has to climb out of to really be a part of the community of Nations that is so wants to be? You cannot see that Obama has cornered Iran and now they have to answer to the world community and not to threats from America (you know...the Former Great Satan).

"The smell of sulfur has left the room" is actually quite a significant statement...even if it comes from an asshole. Forcing your enemies speak kindly of you is quite an achievement don't you think?

Actually, John B., Al Gore had more foreign policy experience than GW Bush.

And so thank you for making my point. Having some (debatable) foreign policy experience did not help GW very much at all did it?

It seems (regardless of how rethugs try and twist the facts) that Obama is doing quite well in spite of his apparent "lack" of experience. Rethugs are having to dig real hard to make him look bad in that dept (OMG he actually bowed to the Saudi King!) At least he isn't kissing them and holding hands in public. (OMG he gave the Queen an Ipod!) At least he didn't vomit on her!

Obama played Iran perfectly to the point where they have built a second nuclear facility and have conducted missile tests recently that have the range to reach Israel and American bases throughout the Middle East. All that and Obama has sat on his hands watching it happen and doing nothing but giving more pretty speeches that no one cares about anymore.

"To the point they have built a second nuclear facility..."

You think that was built since January 20th, sonny?

"All that and Obama has sat on his hands...."

So, you want war? If you do, just say that. It would take discussion here an interesting direction.

doing nothing but giving more pretty speeches that no one cares about anymore.

#96 | Posted by utastaff

how do you know he is doing "nothing"? Seems he is quite busy for only being in office 9 months. And apparently his speeches are having a positive effect worldwide. The only people that are having problems with Obama's speeches are a minority of Americans like yourself(Rethugs).

So far we have Obama saying the exact same thing for over eight months. The only change was Obama going back on his word and losing the Missile Shield bargaining chip. I believe his words were it is up to Iran to change. How has that gone donnerboy?

26 January 2009
In an interview with the Dubai-based al-Arabiyya television network, President Obama says the U.S. will extend the hand of diplomacy to Iran if its leaders "unclench their fist." "It is very important for us to make sure we are using all the tools of U.S. power, including diplomacy, in our relationship with Iran," says Obama. American Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice stipulates, however, that the Islamic republic must suspend its uranium enrichment in line with UN Security Council demands before expecting talks with the United States.

18 February 2009
The latest IAEA report reveals that Iran underreported its enriched uranium stockpile by approximately one-third. Tehran has now amassed 2,227 pounds of low enriched uranium, which is sufficient material for a nuclear weapon if further enriched into HEU. David Albright, who heads the Institute for Science and International Security, says that Iran has reached "breakout capacity," or the theoretical capacity to produce enough HEU for a nuclear warhead. Following an inspection at the enrichment plant at Natanz, the IAEA report also updated figures for the facility's centrifuge count, which it now places at 4,000 in use and an additional 1,600 available, for a total of 5,600.

2 March 2009
The New York Times Times reports that President Obama, in a letter to Russian President Dmitry Medvedev about three weeks ago, hinted that the U.S. may ditch plans to install a missile defense system in Eastern Europe if Moscow pressures Iran against pursuing nuclear weapons. Responding, Obama says the New York Times Times "didn't accurately characterize the letter," and Medvedev denies that the letter offered any direct quid pro quo, saying that Moscow "is already working in close contact" with Washington on Iran. According to Obama, "what I said in the letter is the same thing I've said publicly, which is that the missile defense that we have talked about deploying is directed towards not Russia, but Iran."
www.nti.org

"He played Iran perfectly, to isolate Iran, unite all the other countries around him, with an open hand to Iran, and then he springs the trap."

Not only did the president look strong, he looked cunning.

Now, a question for the White House is whether it can capitalize on this moment and direct this sense of momentum toward its domestic agenda, namely health care reform.

The president's top advisers, after returning to Washington from the Group of 20 summit in Pittsburgh, acknowledged that Mr. Obama had cut a compelling figure during a week of maneuvering to hem in Iran's nuclear program.

"The president played a strong and effective leadership role this week on the world stage, and I think Americans appreciate that," said David Axelrod, one of the president's closest advisers

What a fucking joke. Obama is using the exact same lines he used when he took the oath.

26 June 2009
"We deplore post-electoral violence," says the G8 in a draft statement, urging Tehran to uphold human rights guarantees. There are concerns, however, that a sharp international response may reduce the possibility of resolving nuclear tensions with Iran peacefully. At the request of Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and others, the language in the draft statement regarding Tehran's nuclear program was toned down. "We must focus on the main objectives that will allow us to move forward to resolve the problem of Iran's nuclear program," Lavrov says, discouraging the G8 from isolating Iran in the aftermath of its election.

7 July 2009
In a CNN interview, President Obama says that his administration is "absolutely not" giving Israel the green light to attack Iran. His comments come in response to Vice President Biden's statement regarding Israel's "sovereign right" to attack Iranian nuclear sites. [See NTI Iran Nuclear Chronology 5 July 2009.] Obama says: "I think Vice President Biden stated a categorical fact which is we can't dictate to other countries what their security interests are," adding that "the United States [will] try to resolve the issue of Iran's nuclear capabilities in a peaceful way through diplomatic channels."

Admiral Michael Mullen, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, says that the "window is closing" on opportunities to halt Iran's pursuit of a nuclear weapon. Mullen estimates that Tehran will build its first nuclear bomb in one to three years. The Islamic republic is "very focused" on developing a nuclear weapons capability, according to Mullen

How will that nuclear device arive in the US city? AndyB62

I don't know and neither do you. AND, as far as we know Iran doesn't have a nuclear bomb yet either or an ICBM.. what's your point? We should wait until they get one and then worry about it?

If that is your position... then congrats.. you evidently agree with our president. Give yourself a hug.

Attack anyone who is a threat regardless of vidence or not!! Now there is democracy spreading peace. Why are you people so damn assbackward?

Most clamoring out here for attacks are right wing crazy x-trian pro lifers.....guess muslims don't have a stranglehold on nut job status! Glad to see that book is teaching you patience, understanding, compassion and integrity!!

LM

LM...

Please explain what has changed from Obama's rhetoric since Jan this year. A link was provided with about eight months worth of articles referencing Iran and Obama's policy. So far it has been nothing but a whimper, and Iran obviously isn't to concerned about this Pres. Of course Obama always maintained the Missile Shields were about Iran and not Russia and they were part of his idle threat that Iran stop seeking nuclear avenues. How has that worked out in the last few months?

Yea - real perfectly.

They now have tested missles - just like North Korea. They have an underground nuclear test facility. They are governed by a group of people hated by the populace of their own country - which denigh the Holocaust.

They know we will not send cruise missles or bombers to knock them out like Reagan did - or even Clinton ( though he only blew up an Asprin factory). We will not take serious steps like Bush...because when Bush just called them part of the "Axis of Evil" of you went nuts and protested.

And Obama is not Bush...they KNOW he will not pull the trigger. Putin make a little threat and Whoose - there go the missle defense out of the Czech Rep. and Poland. Boy aren't steadfast allies?

No Obama would like to talk to them.."please mr. Achman..can you stop with the nuclear build up pretty please? It would be very nice of you to do it. Oh..yes were are an evil nation - Sorry. Oh..yes Israel should not exsist. No we are going to pull out Iraq - so you can have them as your lap dogs.....would that be good for you? Thank you so much for your consideration...."

Yeah Obama has really been playing Iran. Maybe he should listen to the Pentagon instead of relying on the his vast experience.

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman called the tests "troublesome."

"You combine these show-of-force type missile tests along with the other revelations that have been brought to light over the last couple of days with their continued development of a nuclear program, and you put all those together, and it paints a picture of ... a pattern of deception," Whitman said.
news.yahoo.com

How will that nuclear device arive in the US city? AndyB62

Suitcase Bomb

"They know he (Obama) would not pull trigger...."

Given Iran's behavior to date, the threat of someone pulling a trigger hasn't matter much at all to them to date.

I'm waiting for someone to suggest we have a war with Iran here. Then we can talk about what that might look like and what's likely to happen next.

Details, details. Yeah, I know, boring. Don't you long for the good old days of Bush when we could just have a war and then spend eight or ten years understanding what we did later? Boy, I sure so.

"Boy I sure do...."

People should have learned by now to suspect the motives and intelligence of warhawks. To paraphrase Sun Tzu, war is always a sign of failure.

According to reports the US has known about the Qom facility for several years, yet two years ago the National Intelligence Estimate said that the agencies had "moderate confidence" that Iran had ended any nuclear weapons program in 2003.

Looks like the US is up to it's old tricks....lying like hell.

"They now have tested missles - just like North Korea. They have an underground nuclear test facility. They are governed by a group of people hated by the populace of their own country - which denigh the Holocaust"

Righties wanted to do nothing but ignore them when they were in power. That gave dpnk all the nukes they neded and gave iran two enrichment facilities, whle you were being so strong!! What a joke, you guys pussed out and were to cared to deal with Iran and dpnk, now we hae to clean up more of your mes. Just like we always do! It must suck to see the world turning on ackmadnutjob.....

As I have always said dpnk is still the biggest threat, and the world has not figured out how to deal with it. Crispee, you don't think we got some back door agreement with russia for removal of that shield....uh ok.

LM

As I have always said dpnk is still the biggest threat, and the world has not figured out how to deal with it. Crispee, you don't think we got some back door agreement with russia for removal of that shield....uh ok.

LM

LM,
I simply asked you to look at what has been going on with Iran since Obama took office. So far you seem to be running away from the WH's own words and policy. Not to mention the Pentagon who admits Iran has been deceiving everyone including Obama.

So as a someone who agrees with this fluff piece, maybe you can comment on what has changed since Obama took office? His policy is still we want to talk and the balls in Iran's court.

In regards to Russia and some backdoor deal... I can only rely on Obama's own words. Which has been the Missile Shields are more about Iran than Russia and it is up to them to change. So I ask you again, what has changed?

"what has changed?"

For one thing, the talks that begin tomorrow.

#113...

So, the talks tomorrow are a result of Obama playing Iran and putting them in the mythical "box"? So far that "box" doesn't seem to have a lid. Unless missile testing, processing uranium, blocking inspections, boasting about another facility etc is keeping them in a sealed box.

Still likin' that jaw-jaw, right, Doc? Maybe Dear Leader can get those Iranians singin'
MMM!MMM!MM!
Barack Hussein Obama!

I wouldn't count on it though. This is from Bret Stephens, Foreign-Affairs writer with the WSJ. The last paragraph is especially poignant.

"Anwar Ibrahim, the beleaguered Malaysian opposition leader, told me last week that "the only country that can stand up" to abusive regimes is the United States. "If they know the administration is taking a soft stance [on human rights], they will go on a rampage."

None of this is to say that neoconservatism represents some kind of infallible doctrineor that it's even a doctrine. Neocons have erred in overestimating the U.S. public's willingness to engage in long struggles on behalf of other people. They have erred also in overestimating the willingness of other people to fight for themselves, or for their freedom.

But as the pendulum has swung to a U.S. foreign policy based on little more than the personal attractions of the president, it's little wonder that the world is casting about for an alternative. And a view of the world that understands that American power still furnishes the margin between freedom and tyranny, and between prosperity and chaos, is starting to look better all the time. Even in France."

online.wsj.com

And a view of the world that understands that American power still furnishes the margin between freedom and tyranny, and between prosperity and chaos, is starting to look better all the time. Even in France."

Yet Obama continues to downplay America's role and apologize for the policies and actions taken. Going as far as saying we can't do it alone and expecting other countries take up the slack.

Far cry from "If not us, who? "If not now, when?"

Anyone who is not in favor of taking out Iran's nukes should watch the History special I watched last night on nuclear terrorism. It showed how the number one threat to our country is a nuclear detonation in a major US city. The after effects of which, I don't need to tell you, are incomprehensible.

You asked "what as changed" since Obama came into office. I said talks begin tomorrow. Before Obama, what talks? After Obama, talks.

"It's a startling and important reversal of US policy, as promised by candidate Barack Obama in 2008, abandoning the charged rhetoric of the Bush administration, which lumped Iran incongruously into the Axis of Evil in 2002 and looked aghast at the idea of negotiating with Iran."
news.yahoo.com

That statement stands.

"Yet Obama continues to downplay America's role and apologize for the policies and actions taken."

Ah, yes...where did THIS democrat go? Last one I ever voted for in a presidential election.

"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty. This much we pledgeand more."

-"Yet Obama continues to downplay America's role and apologize for the policies and actions taken."

Just part of cleaning up behind the Bushies.

-where did THIS democrat go?

Obama, who makes such patriotic statements all the time, is the closest we have come to JK.

"It's a startling and important reversal of US policy, as promised by candidate Barack Obama in 2008, abandoning the charged rhetoric of the Bush administration, which lumped Iran incongruously into the Axis of Evil in 2002 and looked aghast at the idea of negotiating with Iran."

Good Christ Almighty, Doc. "Talks" have been going on with Iran...and North Korea...for DECADES. All that has happened is that things have gotten worse. We have two manic midgets threatening Obama now. They see him as a weak sister. Brown and Zarkozy even think so even though they haven't said it right out.

"Obama, who makes such patriotic statements all the time, is the closest we have come to JK."

ROFLMAO...Obama wouldn't make a pimple on JFK's ass!

#118...

The Pentagon said Iran has been deceiving the world and there has been no indication Iran has stopped anything. In fact we are finding out they are expanding their nuclear avenues. This has been reported and most of those revelations were pasted on this thread. So I ask again, how has Iran changed in respect to Obama putting them in a box?

Good Christ Almighty, Doc. "Talks" have been going on with Iran

What talks went on during the George W. Bush years, Jest?

We have two manic midgets threatening Obama now. They see him as a weak sister.

Didn't North Korea test its first nuke during the Bush years?

I'm curious, what's you solution to the North Korea nukes and the possibility Iran might develop nukes?

#117 | Posted by everlong

I saw that too. You think Bush and his 9/11-inside-job-gang can pull off a nuclear detonation in Washington DC?

For the debate between national intelligence agencies on whether or not Iran is developing nukes:

www.drudge.com

122 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2009-09-29 10:36 AM | Reply | Flag: Missed the passing of the Lib Pres torch

Obama, who makes such patriotic statements all the time, is the closest we have come to JK.

Nice paralell using JFK. Of course JFK actually threatened to remove the missiles if Russia moved forward and he didn't blame America for the Russians plan and whimp out asking for help. Quite the opposite of this current dem in charge.

"what has changed?"

"For one thing, the talks that begin tomorrow."

Iran has reported they will not discuss their nuclear ambitions for a second. I guess they are not to worried about Obama and the threat of worthless sanctions.

So now the quetion is, what are these talks going to accomplish? Other than giving Iran legitimacy?

What talks went on during the George W. Bush years, Jest?

Maybe Bush didn't directly enter into talks with Iran (he knew it was fruitless) but many others did...to no avail. here's just ONE case.

"Iran to resume nuclear talks with European countries in late July
Xinhua News Agency | July 13, 2004 | Copyright 2004 Xinhua News Agency. Provided by ProQuest LLC."

"Maybe Bush didn't directly enter into talks with Iran (he knew it was fruitless) but many others did...to no avail."

So you don't talk to the adversary because you know it's fruitless? How do you know it's fruitless?

Again, what course do you suggest? Does it involve munitions and transforming sand into glass?

"I'm curious, what's you solution to the North Korea nukes and the possibility Iran might develop nukes?"

Severe sanctions, blockade...something besides more "jaw-jaw." I'm glad I don't have to make the decision but it is going to have to be something that will finally convince Iran that the games are over. I doubt we'll get the sanctions though. Russia, China...and Venezuela won't cooperate.

So you don't talk to the adversary because you know it's fruitless? How do you know it's fruitless?

Why are they having these talks? Was it not to discuss Irans nuclear ambitions? Iran has stated they will not talk about anything related to this program. They will not back down from progressing to the next steps. They have said the same thing since Obama took office. Why even have these talks if Iran refuses to discuss the REASON for this summitt?

- he didn't blame America for the Russians plan and whimp out asking for help.

Obama blamed Jeff Gannon's idiot girlfriend, and rightfully so.

And only the weak and fearful think co-operation is "wHimpy".

The sacrifice of the Basiji was ghastly. And yet, today, it is a source not of national shame, but of growing pride. Since the end of hostilities against Iraq in 1988, the Basiji have grown both in numbers and influence. They have been deployed, above all, as a vice squad to enforce religious law in Iran, and their elite "special units" have been used as shock troops against anti-government forces. In both 1999 and 2003, for instance, the Basiji were used to suppress student unrest. And, last year, they formed the potent core of the political base that propelled Mahmoud Ahmadinejada man who reportedly served as a Basij instructor during the Iran-Iraq Warto the presidency.

#134...

As opposed to the ignorant and blind thinking Iran has any intentions of cooperating with your useless hero of a President?

This article reminds me of Corky's brilliant assement the Clinton's played good cop, bad cop with North Korea to get those reporters were released.

-ignorant and blind thinking Iran has any intentions of cooperating

Obama has led the UN Sec Council to water and forced them to drink, going along with US instead repeating the FAILED Cowboy policies of Bushites.

This article reminds me of Crispee's brilliant assement that.... sorry, he's never had one.

"So you don't talk to the adversary because you know it's fruitless? How do you know it's fruitless?"

C'mon, Doc, you're a student of history, no? Just look at recent history with the current maniacs. Here's the guy with whom you recommend we "negotiate." I don't know why the whole thing didn't post last time.

"Ahmadinejad's Demons
A Child of the Revolution Takes Over By Matthias Kntzel

During the Iran-Iraq War, the Ayatollah Khomeini imported 500,000 small plastic keys from Taiwan. The trinkets were meant to be inspirational. After Iraq invaded in September 1980, it had quickly become clear that Iran's forces were no match for Saddam Hussein's professional, well-armed military. To compensate for their disadvantage, Khomeini sent Iranian children, some as young as twelve years old, to the front lines. There, they marched in formation across minefields toward the enemy, clearing a path with their bodies. Before every mission, one of the Taiwanese keys would be hung around each child's neck. It was supposed to open the gates to paradise for them.

At one point, however, the earthly gore became a matter of concern. "In the past," wrote the semi-official Iranian daily Ettelaat as the war raged on, "we had child-volunteers: 14-, 15-, and 16-year-olds. They went into the minefields. Their eyes saw nothing. Their ears heard nothing. And then, a few moments later, one saw clouds of dust. When the dust had settled again, there was nothing more to be seen of them. Somewhere, widely scattered in the landscape, there lay scraps of burnt flesh and pieces of bone." Such scenes would henceforth be avoided, Ettelaat assured its readers. "Before entering the minefields, the children [now] wrap themselves in blankets and they roll on the ground, so that their body parts stay together after the explosion of the mines and one can carry them to the graves."

The sacrifice of the Basiji was ghastly. And yet, today, it is a source not of national shame, but of growing pride. Since the end of hostilities against Iraq in 1988, the Basiji have grown both in numbers and influence. They have been deployed, above all, as a vice squad to enforce religious law in Iran, and their elite "special units" have been used as shock troops against anti-government forces. In both 1999 and 2003, for instance, the Basiji were used to suppress student unrest. And, last year, they formed the potent core of the political base that propelled Mahmoud Ahmadinejada man who reportedly served as a Basij instructor during the Iran-Iraq Warto the presidency."

www.matthiaskuentzel.de

France has a few planes, let them use a bomb or two. If not, expose them and all the others who say they want world peace and do nothing to protect it.
Radical Muslims I am afraid must die. Sooner the better.

#4 | POSTED BY NONDLR

Unbelievable

Obama has led the UN Sec Council to water and forced them to drink, going along with US instead repeating the FAILED Cowboy policies of Bushites.

Once again you are ignorant to the facts and continue to foolishly think Iran gives a rats ass. What is even more laughable is the fact you think the UN Sec Council can do anything. I guess China and Russia will blinldy follow your hero and not use a veto? Hey you make as much sense as Obama. Both your vast experiences on foreign policy is showing.

-I guess China and Russia will blinldy follow your hero and not use a veto?

There is a very good chance they will not interfere with, though not vote for, sanctions.

Unlike when your hero GW refused to negotiate at all. Obama got most of the world on our side, while Bush spent his time making sure that we went it alone.

"Obama has led the UN Sec Council to water and forced them to drink,..."

What in hell are you smoking this morning!? Do you REALLY believe that he forced Russia and China to drink ANYTHING? Those are only two of the permanent members. What about the temporary members? Even Zarkozy mocked him at the Security Council meeting.

"The rest of Sarkozy's remarks were, well, remarkable:
"President Obama dreams of a world without weapons but right in front of us two countries are doing the exact opposite.

biggovernment.com

"Iran since 2005 has flouted five security council resolutions. North Korea has been defying council resolutions since 1993.

"I support the extended hand of the Americans, but what good has proposals for dialogue brought the international community? More uranium enrichment and declarations by the leaders of Iran to wipe a UN member state off the map," he continued, referring to Israel.

The sharp-tongued French leader even implied that Mr Obama's resolution 1887 had used up valuable diplomatic energy.

"If we have courage to impose sanctions together it will lend viability to our commitment to reduce our own weapons and to making a world without nuke weapons," he said.

Mr Sarkozy has previously called the US president's disarmament crusade "naive."

Ah, Jest admiring the French.

Now there's a good laugh this morning, roflmao!

Mr S is playing to domestic politics at home, and will ask Obama "how high?, when he says jump.

But, as you admittedly have no solutions yourself, I guess condemning other's efforts is the best you can do.

Unlike when your hero GW refused to negotiate at all. Obama got most of the world on our side, while Bush spent his time making sure that we went it alone.

Take a moment and read this. Come back and tell everyone how the world coming together has slowed Iran down one iota.

www.nti.org

"Ah, Jest admiring the French."

No, I'm not. I'm just pointing out that the security council members ARE NOT being "forced to drink" as you posted. You're delusional. The British are becoming disappointed with Dear Leader too:

"The man who has run nothing more demanding than the Harvard Law Review is beginning to look out of his depth in the world's top job. His credibility is seeping away, and it will require concrete achievements rather than more soaring oratory to recover it."

Edward Lucas writes for The Economist and is the author of The New Cold War (Bloomsbury, 8.99)"

"But, as you admittedly have no solutions yourself,..."

Neither do you, as smart as you THINK you are,....or your messiah.

It's SO funny, the people that spent the last 8 years defending the arguably worst Pres the country has ever had think they should be listened to on any policies, domestic or foreign.

Hilarious.

Bushites policy opinions should be labeled as, "tested and found incredibly bad, listen to at your own risk!".

Like it or not, Iran _will_ eventually develop a nuke. Every realistic analyst of the situation understands that. The _real_ issue is to ensure that Iran behaves like the other nations which have nukes - threaten, bluster, posture all they want, but do _not_ use them.

Which is why the real debate is between those who believe that Iran is crazy enough to use nukes and those who don't believe that. I think the Iranian leaders are like Stalin, Khruschev and Mao. Very willing to do the talk, but nowhere near interested in doing the walk.

#146...

Bush this and Bush that. This thread is about your hero playing Iran. I know you have nothing to back up this ridiculous article, but delfecting to Bush makes as much sense as Obama wanting to talk about Irans nuclear programs, when Iran says they won't.

Very willing to do the talk, but nowhere near interested in doing the walk.

I guess Iran has no proxies like Hezbollah or other Islamist groups to do their walking?

#148 | Posted by crispee_oc

Translation:

Don't know much about history
Don't know much biology
Don't know much about science book
Don't know much about the French I took

But I do know that I love you
And I know that if you love me too
What a wonderful world this would be

" guess Iran has no proxies like Hezbollah or other Islamist groups to do their walking?" - CC

So you _really_ believe that wouldn't be traced back to them - and that they don't totally realize that? We're talking real world here, not concocted scenarios.

Gotta go...but before I leave will the choir please join with me in a few verses of :

MMM MMM MM!
Barack Hussein Obama!

but....nobody loves Obama more than....OBAMA!

"President Obama's speech to the United Nations has been called naive and even "post-American." It was something else, as well: the most extravagant excursion into self-worship we have yet seen in an American leader.

Beware of politicians who claim to be "humbled by the responsibility the American people have placed upon me." It's a neon sign flashing the opposite. And sure enough, in almost the next sentence, the president allowed that "I am well aware of the expectations that accompany my presidency around the world." Really? The whole world pulses with hope and expectation because Obama is president? People in Amsterdam, Sao Paulo and Taipei have a spring in their step because an Illinois Democrat won the White House?"

www.realclearpolitics.com

#150 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis...

You said earler the talks was a change. Now we know the talks are not going to include Irans nuclear ambitions. So I ask you again... What is so the point of these talks? Other than to make Obama look like he has a clue? lol

"You said earler the talks was a change."

Yes, and they are. Do you dispute that?

"Now we know the talks are not going to include Irans nuclear ambitions."

How do you know that? They've said they have a right to nuclear ambitions. Do you think that's the same as not entering into discussions?

"What is so the point of these talks?"

To exhaust possibilities other than warfare would be my guess.

"Now we know the talks are not going to include Irans nuclear ambitions."

How do you know that? They've said they have a right to nuclear ambitions. Do you think that's the same as not entering into discussions?
#154 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2009-09-29 12:29 PM

You tell me Doc. If they are not willing to discuss their Nukes, what is the point? The Iranian Gov sees this as an opportunity for world powers to come together and gives the the US a chance to CHANGE their policy towards Iran.

"The new site is part of our rights and there is no need to discuss it," he said, adding Tehran would not abandon its nuclear activities "even for a second".

The United States and its Western allies have made clear they will focus on Iran's nuclear program at the Geneva meeting. Iran has offered wide-ranging security talks.

The administration, meanwhile, has been preparing for two opposite possibilities: One in which the Iranian leadership seeks to regain a measure of legitimacy by taking up Mr. Obama's offer to talk a situation that could put Washington in the uncomfortable position of giving credibility to a government whose actions Mr. Obama has deplored or one in which Iran rejects negotiations. Mr. Obama told Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel in May that if there were no progress on the Iranian nuclear issue by the year's end, the administration would turn to other steps, including sanctions. Mr. Obama hinted at an even shorter schedule during the interview on Saturday.

"We will have to assess in coming weeks and months the degree to which they are willing to walk through that door," he said.
www.nytimes.com

"Anyone who is not in favor of taking out Iran's nukes should watch the History special I watched last night on nuclear terrorism. It showed how the number one threat to our country is a nuclear detonation in a major US city. The after effects of which, I don't need to tell you, are incomprehensible"

There is not a govt around that says Iran has nukes, what the hell are you talking about. They have uranium and don't know yet what the hell to do with it. Again if nukes are real threat, then why didn't bush do a damn thing for 8 years with Iran and dpnk, oh yes, he was a coward!

LM

Crispee,

It's real simple, he has aid all along dialogue is the way to go, since the camaign trail. Our trying to utilize the missile shield as the only deterance to Iran and that's plain dumb.

You peopl worry about a country that can't currently make a nuke and can't fly a bomb to hit America. I don't care ifwe have bases in ME, that is dumb as shit pull them back. We are not worlds police force. I am more concerned with a country that test fires misiles in our dirction, dpnk. The country all you righties ae fucking scared of!! ackmanutjob isn't shit compared to kim jong il.....that is a real threat!!

LM

There is not a govt around that says Iran has nukes, what the hell are you talking about. They have uranium and don't know yet what the hell to do with it. Again if nukes are real threat, then why didn't bush do a damn thing for 8 years with Iran and dpnk, oh yes, he was a coward!

LM

So on one hand Obama is brave for giving Iran legitimacy by having talks with other world powers. Even though the meeting will not inlcude Irans nuclear programs. Yet on the other hand Bush is a coward because he calls Iran out on their nuclear programs?

The fucking wharped mind of a liberal is beyond comprehension.

Crispee,

It's real simple, he has aid all along dialogue is the way to go, since the camaign trail.

You still haven't bothered to read the link I provided. Twice now. Iran has not only laughed and ignored Obama, they have gone into overdrive.

So if Iran is so irrelevant, why are they having these talks October? Oh I know. To discuss how bad Bush was and how great Obama will be.

"Which box is that LM?" It's called the box that will sanction and embargo tehm and prevent new technologies from entering the country and will seveerly degrade their way of life. Just like it did for Iraq and has done in Cuba. Extremely effective and not a single American life need be lost.

LM

I see you have as much knowledge and experience as Obama does on Iran. It is either naive or ignorant to ignore Iran already has the new technology, and thinking embargos or sanctions were effective in preventing this technology from entering the country. But hey, you are right in line with Obama.

"But hey, you are right in line with Obama..."

OK. No one's going to say they actually want a war with Iran, though that wish is implied by many mightily.

Can't be honest on this topic, shouldn't be talking. Sure shouldn't be attempting to influence policy.

"Can't be honest on this topic, shouldn't be talking. Sure shouldn't be attempting to influence policy."

That is the point. The Pentagon and Gates are not on the same page as Obama. They see Iran for what it is, Obama sees Iran for what it should be. If Iran's nuclear program is off the table, then what is there to talk about?

That's right Iran, you better watch your fucking back or BHO will give another speech.

All the world can hope for is that Israel has the balls to take the Iranian nukes out, just as they did before to the complete condemnation of the world powers, and to the complete relief of the world powers.

He played Iran just like the rag heads in Iran told him to do. Without being told how he couldn't play with eric holders dick. He has to have a teleprompter
to talk with his Generals, when he has time.

Per Merriam Webster, Coalition is defined as a temporary alliance of distinct parties, persons, or states for joint action.

Who is part of the coalition now and who would have been in the coalition prior to our maneuvering those countries financially enmeshed with Iran into our camp? This is a positive accomplishment and we will see over the next few months if it gives the U.S. a bigger stick in dealing with Iran. Republican or Democrat, this may play out to be a notable stride in dealing with Iran diplomatically, a necessity considering our policy over the last 20-years that saw the Iraq Wars shift power to the Iranians.

Obama was branded as nave on Iran, but James Carroll says last week's soaring rhetoric put him back on trackand in a position to push Tehran closer to checkmate in tomorrow's nuclear talks.
www.thedailybeast.com

From James Carroll's "YOUR MOVE, MR. AHMADINEJAD" -

The message will be clear: Tehran will not be allowed to weaponize its nuclear operations.

Obama is being derided for navet, as if he expected Iran to roll over and take orders just because a young American president gives great speeches....

Obama is no dope. Actions and words must be twinned, and he showed that the next day, since, of course, it was Obama who blew the whistle on the facility near Qum, a carefully timed exposure of intelligence that the United States had long possessed. When Obama flipped on the klieg lights to expose damning evidence that Iran's nuclear project is not what Tehran claims, he proved the point that he had just made before the world at the U.N.: Proliferation is a real and present danger. In other words, he orchestrated the challenge to Iran, right up to this week's confrontation. Obama is playing chess, not checkers.

Unlike the bevy of "realists" who disdain him, Obama knows that the sanctions threat, no matter how tough or universally enforced, is not enough to get Iran to surrender its nuclear ambition.... The only way a country like Iran will yield on such ambition is if this pillar of global power begins to be removed, and that means the nuclear-haves must get serious about the negotiations toward a nuclear abolition treaty....The only U.S. president who seriously tried to abolish nuclear weapons was the arch-realist Ronald Reagan, coming within a hair's breadth of an agreement with Mikhail Gorbachev in 1986 to empty the arsenals of the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. by 2000.

The nuclear radicalism that animated Reagan, the abolitionist, plays in a lower key with Obama, but it defines the other move that he will make on Thursday. In effect, it is the carrot that will be quietly dangled before Iran: The U.S. is getting serious about nuclear disarmament....

Don't be surprised if the Thursday confrontation ends inconclusively. Chess games take time. Having been making his moves since last spring, Obama is setting up moves two and three in advance, aware ultimately of next spring. That is when the long-scheduled NPT Review Conference will be held in New York, with most signatory nations gathered under the same banner: No non-proliferation for the many without disarmament by the few. Between now and then, Obama will have restored the structure of nuclear arms reduction with Russia. Other nuclear haves will be feeling unwelcome pressure of their own, for they, too, have to play by these rules. The problem of Iran looks different when viewed in the larger context. The solution to that problem will follow when the world understands the United States as leading in a new direction. Ironically, Iran is serving the invaluable function of forcing the issuebig time. And no, it has not taken Obama by surprise.
www.thedailybeast.com

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