Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Friday, September 18, 2009

Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis released on Thursday. "We're losing more Americans every day because of inaction ... than drunk driving and homicide combined," said Dr. David Himmelstein, a co-author of the study. Overall, researchers said American adults age 64 and younger who lack health insurance have a 40 percent higher risk of death than those who have coverage.

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Lots of people also die each year from smoking, drinking, poor diet and other lifestyle choices. Many people also suffer life-long injuries because they choose not to wear a seat belt or motorcycle helmet.

Lots of people also die each year from smoking, drinking, poor diet and other lifestyle choices.

Certainly their is some causation and I would hope that reform would address this.

But, as Vernon points out, most of this problem is perpetuated by poor lifestyle choices.

Same goes with life insurance.

Why do you think insurance companies charge a 27 year old more if he smokes? Because 27 year olds are dropping dead of heart attacks?

NO. But when you "pool" smokers you will find they do have much higher mortality rates....mostly due to poor lifestyle choices.

Have no fear Obama is here!

Obama: Legalize illegals to get them health care

washingtontimes.com

The Harvard study, funded by a federal research grant, was published in the online edition of the American Journal of Public Health.

It was released by Physicians for a National Health Program, which favors government-backed or "single-payer" health insurance.

No bias here?

"CBS Disguises Single-Payer Group's 45,000 Deaths Claim as a 'Harvard' Study"

newsbusters.org

Lots of people also die each year from smoking, drinking, poor diet and other lifestyle choices. Many people also suffer life-long injuries because they choose not to wear a seat belt or motorcycle helmet.

#1 | Posted by vernon at 2009-09-18 05:11 AM |

I took a nail in the foot when I was 3. Still haunts me today. If only my parents could have afforded shoes.

how can that be? don't you guys have the best system in the world? oh yeah, the best system in the world for insurance companies bilking the population.

Lots of people also die each year from smoking, drinking, poor diet and other lifestyle choices. Many people also suffer life-long injuries because they choose not to wear a seat belt or motorcycle helmet.

#1 | Posted by vernon

I guess my problem with that logic would be that smoking, drinking etc. are lifestyle choices, while having to go without medication and other medical necessities because you can't afford to have them is clearly not a choice.

Supply and demand means nothing to dimwit dreamers that have done little in life but bitch.

Why don't you advocates of free medical care become doctors, nurses, janitors, orderlies (ooops CNA's) and such?

There is a shortage of medical doctors in this country (much so that we probably import a third of those currently practicing in the USA) and there's a plethora of whiney ass persons that go to the doctor at the first sniffle.

I get more communication about getting a weed eater repaired than I do talking with a doctor to solve a health problem.

Why? Because there aren't enough doctors and they don't have the time to listen and they don't have to compete in a free market system.

If you think the health insurance industry or the medical industry in general is a free market system, you're as they say today, unable to critically think.

We'd all be better off if none of us had insurance.

We already have programs for the indigent and the elderly.

If doctors had to charge people by their ability to pay and not on an insurance industries ability to pay you can bet we'd be buying health care for what it's worth. Where, when and why it's worth it.

I guess my problem with that logic would be that smoking, drinking etc. are lifestyle choices, while having to go without medication and other medical necessities because you can't afford to have them is clearly not a choice.

#8 | Posted by sfabisch at 2009-09-18 08:46 PM

Cost of a pack of cigs a day = 5 bucks

A thirty day supply of Advair = 180 bucks

Why can someone afford cigs but not the Advair?

Why should insurance pay for the Advair but not the cigs? Apparently at some point they both make the person feel better. No?

Lots of people also die each year from smoking, drinking, poor diet and other lifestyle choices. Many people also suffer life-long injuries because they choose not to wear a seat belt or motorcycle helmet.

#1 | Posted by vernon

A most compassionate observation.

Of course, completely off topic and irrelevant to the subject of the article.

I suppose you could throw up that one niggling little stat that life always, 100% of the time, ends with death, despite how one leads one life.

Awaiting your no doubt pithy rejoinder.

so in ten years all the deadbeats will be gone?

101

Funny thing that here in Los Angeles, the county hospitals are complexes with all specialties covered, operating as clinics. There is a "Share of Cost" program and social workers that will help you get through the system...NO ONE IS REFUSED TREATMENT.

Many of the people that go there are illegal aliens. Most speak no English. The signs are all in Spanish, the employees are all bilingual.

If illegals can get preventive medical care for free or at reduced cost at County hospitals, why can't Americans?

I CALL BULLSHIT! This is more propaganda funneled through MSM by the White House and the lefty loonys in congress.

And the lefties say that the right is using scare tactics...HA

When is Obama going to go after University Provost pay? How about proffesor pay?

45,000 killed would be a drop in the bucket compared to the number of people nurdered by Obamacare type of VA negligence, line waiting for care and death panels.

"Why don't you advocates of free medical care become doctors, nurses, janitors, orderlies (ooops CNA's) and such?"

You dumb sumbitch, nobody advocates 'free medical care'.

Tell me what is wrong with a system where everybody pays, and everybody plays?

45,000 killed would be a drop in the bucket compared to the number of people nurdered by Obamacare type of VA negligence, line waiting for care and death panels.

------------

brown shirt

"45,000 killed would be a drop in the bucket compared to the number of people nurdered by Obamacare type of VA negligence, line waiting for care and death panels."

Another lying sumbitch, what the fuck is it with the right that they have to lie so damm much?

Cost of a pack of cigs a day = 5 bucks

A thirty day supply of Advair = 180 bucks

Why can someone afford cigs but not the Advair?

Why should insurance pay for the Advair but not the cigs? Apparently at some point they both make the person feel better. No?

#10 | Posted by Washboard

I don't understand.

Are you saying that everyone who can't afford proper health insurance is a victim of their own vices, and therefore have made the wrong choice?

Not everyone who is lacking the medical care they need is sick because of poor lifestyle choices. Lots of folks have to choose between eating or having medication; booze and ciggies are not a factor in the equation and for many never have been.

Tell me what is wrong with a system where everybody pays, and everybody plays?

#16 | Posted by Custer at 2009-09-18 09:15 PM |

I'll tell you what's wrong with it. I don't want to play! How's that? I carry catastrophic insurance and pay as I go for every thing else.

We already have programs for the elderly and the indigent. I certainly don't have a problem with providing them with necessary care. But I don't want to pay for someone's pregnancy, boob job, hip replacement, crows feet and a shoulder for some to cry on.

If you think government run health care is going to treat your every boo-boo you're really going to be in for a surprise.

These fuckers will be telling you what to eat, when to eat it, when to go to bed and what temperature to set your thermostat.

You ain't been listening to Obama, you've just been hypnotically watching him is my guess.

Read some of his speeches. Educate yourself. Obama's getting rid of the waste in health care equals an absolute no frills medical model.

#20 - yes, some people will have to purchase their own bandaids and neosporin. but first, they'll have to figure out that's what they need. btw - neosporin also works for pink eye and minor ear problems. some people are also going to have to STOP going to the doctor every time they sneeze. i have lifetime medical on my arms and hands, but have gone to the doctor only twice in 12 years. aspirin works just as well as any script they'd like to get me hooked on. buck up, people.

Hey!!! That was uncalled for Axe!

Washboard is a insurance company WHORE. Ignore the waste of bandwidth. These paid cocksuckers spam our boards and you shit eating Rtards slurp up the shit.

Think about it, fools: Who but the insurance companies want to perpetuate a system that makes them insane profits and SCREWS THE PATIENTS?

If you like getting fucked up the ass (and what Republican doesn't?) just keep listening to these whores. Otherwise, call you congressweasel or senator and insist on a public option to keep the insurance companies honest.

Your hatred of a democrat in the White House shouldn't override your common sense self preservation instincts unless you really are a hopeless loser.

Lisa,

Nanc BRAGGED about her uninsured status a couple of weaks ago. It is vermin like her that cause a large part of our health care problems. Don't give her a break just because she is a moron.

"Nanc, you are a miserable, lying sack of puss."

Not true, Nanc is an excellent spokesperson for Christianity.

Null,

True, all real Christians must agree with Nanc that young girls who are raped and murdered 'got what they deserved' if they also happen to be for peace.

Why do 'christians' hate peace so much when Jesus was called the Prince of Peace. Must have beee another Jesus, I guess.

Did Jesus ask for proof of citizenship and an insurance card before he healed the sick?

Health care is a fundamental right. If it wasn't a fundamental right (G-d or whomever You believe made You)He would not have made women and women with nipples. Thems the facts jack.

Larry

Health care is a fundamental right only if you are RICH. If you are middle class, fuck you!!! If you are poor, DIE, motherfucker.

The right.

First of all Axe, there are many reasons why someone is uninsured. You shouldn't jump to conclusions.

Secondly, not all Christians believe what you stated in post #27.

Not all Christians believe women who are raped and murdered get what "they deserve".

But I will say that if Nanc said that, it sounds more like her brand of humor than anything.

I don't much like that style but some people might not like mine either.

Wow, this is getting tiresome. Look, Barry doesn't have the votes to pass the stinking thing. Acorn is dead for all intensive purposes and Joe Biden is vice president. The Demoncraps are laying like some squashing thing on a two lane highway.

They have the House. They have the Senate. The have the White House.

But they don't have the will of the people.

But they don't have the will of the people.

Posted by zulu at 2009-09-18 10:22 PM | Reply

WRONGGGGGGGGGGG They do have the will of the people. It's the fucking useless pricks in the health care insurance industry who are buying off the killing of this thing. The People want it but the representatives are not doing the will of the people LIKE USUAL.

Larry

Washboard is a insurance company WHORE. Ignore the waste of bandwidth.

#24 | Posted by axe at 2009-09-18 10:05 PM

Let me tell you something, dumbass. I did a short stint in the health insurance industry. Very short. I can't/won't sell what I don't believe in.

I don't believe in most health insurance policies and I damned sure don't believe government can create the number of doctors required to fix the problem with health care.

If you choose a new car or more home than you can afford in lieu of a catastrophic insurance policy I don't give a shit if you lose them all and are in perpetual debt to pay off your medical bills.

But this is still a supposedly "free country" and with that consequence is always present.

The problem with health care is it isn't a free market model and hasn't been for decades.

"The problem with health care is it isn't a free market model and hasn't been for decades."

Well tell us then smartass, how do we get away from a monopoly model to a free market model?

And tell us why you think a free market model would work?

Free market models don't work in the case of utilities, why would they work for health care?

Clearly they won't!

axe - i have free health care if i so choose to use it, but prefer to pay as i go. why should the minority hold the majority by the shorthairs?

#27 | Posted by axe = truthhurts.

Did someone check the box on the form or the Death Certificate that said "Death because of lack of insurance"??

Horse manure!

Hey, I'll throw out something and see how it flies.

If in the typical business model, the customer defines quality, defines price points, defines features, etc., then the question begs to be asked, why is our health insurance system so screwed up?

I had a thought. Maybe it's because the insured is not the customer. As it turns out, for the most part, they aren't the customer. In fact, if you follow the money, the insured is nothing more than an expense, a cost of doing business.

Again, if you follow the money, who represents the revenue of the equation? It's the employer!

The insurance company contracts with the employer. They are the one who the policy is issued to. If you don't believe me, look at your insurance card. You have a member number, but it's tied to the policy that the employer bought. You are just an expense that needs to be controlled.

How do you change it? Get rid of employer based insurance and turn it back over to the individual. The they become the customer. They define the cost points, the quality, the features of their health plan.

It would take some work to figure it out, but why do we need the government to get in the middle? Other than taxes, what do they bring to the table?

Think about it.

Dinny

"(Then) they become the customer. They define the cost points, the quality, the features of their health plan."

All that will happen is the companies will cherry-pick more and more, deny more and more, write narrower and narrower plans, and engage in more and more recision.

Remember after 9/11, when health insurance costs spiked? Was it because of wild medical spending? No. Massive raises for health workers? No. Huge expansions by hospitals? Giant increases in medical supplies? Unforeseen shortages? No, No, and No.

Was it because insurance companies couldn't get guaranteed returns from the banks and the markets to cover the annuity contracts they held? BINGO! They refused to take it on the chin, like every American had to, because they could.

They've proven they're more than willing to screw over anyone and everyone. I, for one, believe in the health of the citizenry over the profits of the insurance companies. Fuck 'em.

Danforth,

I agree with your point on cherry picking. How do we stop that? I still can't figure out what the government brings to the table except taxes. In the end, you and I (the collective we) will spend more (in taxes) and get less. We'll have everyone insured, but with crappy policies. I don't know what is worse, no health care, or just really $hity health care.

How do we make the insured, the customer? How do we get the insurance companies to see us as the customer who is only going to pay X for their health insurance?

I remember paying a fortune for long distance every freaking month. Now I get unlimited for $1.95 a month. How do we do that deal, only for health care?

Dinny

okay, so i'm one of those who've lived over a half century WITHOUT health insurance - wonder how many of u.s. there are? not entirely true - i always had very good health insurance while working and my husband has had health insurance for us also - so i'll say minus the twelve or so years my father kept insurance on us children and the fifteen i had insurance coupled with the five years my husband had insurance on our family = 27 years = 26 years without health insurance - WHAT'RE THE ODDS THERE ARE MORE JUST LIKE ME OUT THERE WHO MEET THEIR UNINSURED OBLIGATIONS?!? could we be the only ones?

Puh-lease.

Bullshit

" Now I get unlimited for $1.95 a month. How do we do that deal, only for health care?"

The same way: invent a near-free delivery system. Good luck!

"I don't know what is worse, no health care, or just really $hity health care."

I do: no health care. The macro forces may force us to choose between unaffordable policies and shitty ones, anyway.

"In the end, you and I (the collective we) will spend more (in taxes) and get less."

Yet other countries spend less, and get more. How do you think that works?

Now this sounds like a bunch of BS to me. Are we to believe that 45,000 people would live forever if we had universal health care?

"Are we to believe that 45,000 people would live forever if we had universal health care?"

Live forever?!? Are you really that clueless?

"Are you really that clueless?"

Sorry...I now realize you were making a joke. My bad.

Typical bullshit liberal study. 45,000 die due to some arbitrary criteria established by the "scientists". They couldn't even come up with a good number. Do these revered doctors even notice that more than four times that many die every year (195,000) due to medical errors in hospitals? So wanna save more lives, just stop screwing up as much when people come to be treated.

The third leading cause of death in the USA is the doctors themselves.

Over 2.5 million people in the USA die every year. So even if taken at face value, you are talking about less than 2% of the expected deaths per year. In a free system, not everyone will get or want to pay for Teddy Kennedy style health care. It's called personal freedom. That's bound to create some noise in the life expectancy charts, and that's all we have here is noise. Noise by alleged "scientists" that have thrown away their scientific methods with their principles.

They've proven they're more than willing to screw over anyone and everyone. I, for one, believe in the health of the citizenry over the profits of the insurance companies. Fuck 'em.
#40 | Posted by Danforth

That piece of logic is called going from the frying pan to the fire. Government insurance will easily be worse than private insurance because it's a monopoly and you have no where else to go. At least in a competitive market with individual choice, the insurance companies have to compete for your business. That's why insurance companies lobby so hard for government intervention.

This principle applies throughout our economy. Corporations hate the ordeal of competition, so they ally with government to stifle it. The victims, the consumers blame the corporations for their suffering under the effects of market intervention, so appeal to government for more intervention.

Intervention is not the solution; it is the problem. A problem that worsens every time it ratchets towards more intervention. I can't imagine why anybody would trust a government with a proven record of violence and incompetence. This is a religion of faith in government.

"WHAT'RE THE ODDS THERE ARE MORE JUST LIKE ME OUT THERE WHO MEET THEIR UNINSURED OBLIGATIONS?!?"

There are lots of gamblers but not all are lucky enough to not become seriously ill during their gamble and when they lose so do the rest of us who pay for their care through higher insurance rates and taxes. I don't mind so much if they really can't afford it but when someone who could have gotten insurance just didn't I feel taken advantage of. I also feel like for the money people pay into the system, considering it is considerable more than any other country, we are foolish to accept less than quality universal health care.

"At least in a competitive market with individual choice, the insurance companies have to compete for your business."

Usually there are no more than a small handful of choices in each market, and all move in lockstep. After 9/11 they proved they were monopolies, and had priorities other than the health of their victims--er, clients.

There aren't too many business models out there that rely on shunning their neediest customers.

"I can't imagine why anybody would trust a government with a proven record of violence and incompetence."

Maybe because as inflation was rising 31.52%, health costs were rising more than 4 times that, at 131%. Give the populace somewhere else to turn, and they might. But if we see medical inflation continuing at 4 times actual inflation over the next decade, as the baby boomers start to flood the system, we're in for more radical changes than anyone has imagined.

""WHAT'RE THE ODDS THERE ARE MORE JUST LIKE ME OUT THERE WHO MEET THEIR UNINSURED OBLIGATIONS?!?""

Here's one thing I can guarantee: the next 26 years, you'll take out more than you'll put in.

well im just glad these mo fos are calling us conservatives on all that "SCARE TACTICS"

what a bunch of hypcoritical fuckwads

hypocritical

"well im just glad these mo fos are calling us conservatives on all that "SCARE TACTICS""

Facts are one thing.

Palin suggesting her down's syndrome baby would be abandoned by Obamacare is something else entirely.

Government insurance will easily be worse than private insurance because it's a monopoly and you have no where else to go.

WTF are you mumbling about Ray? First of all, the only government insurance plans out there, like Medicare and other state run programs are not a monopoly. Secondly, proposed legislation will not outlaw private insurance plans. Finally, in many states, Hawaii for example, there are only two or three choices for insurance and they all have outrageous fees compared to any other countries universal health care options.

Dude get a handle on it. Don't just make stuff up to fit your twisted logic.

Usually there are no more than a small handful of choices in each market, and all move in lockstep. After 9/11 they proved they were monopolies, and had priorities other than the health of their victims--er, clients.

Again, that is an effect of government intervention. Worse, there is only ONE government monopoly. Once it takes your money by compulsion, you are an expense. A small handful of choices is not necessarily a bad thing when consumers are satisfied. That condition can only exist when government is not involved.

Maybe because as inflation was rising 31.52%, health costs were rising more than 4 times that, at 131%.

Dan, are you blind to the fact that government is the cause of both general price inflation and medical inflation?

I think you're missing my point. Intervention begets more intervention. Never in history has government intervention ended well. This country is in for some very hard times in the years immediately ahead. History is repeating again.

First of all, the only government insurance plans out there, like Medicare and other state run programs are not a monopoly.

But it infects the entire structure of the industry.

Secondly, proposed legislation will not outlaw private insurance plans.

Not directly. Instead it will regulate and price them out of business.

#57 | Posted by RingMaster

You're another dumbed down American who hasn't the foggiest idea of how markets work. Then you people bitch about my pessimism for the future of this country. The federal government is broke while the likes of you imagine it can spend and borrow forever without limit.

"Again, that is an effect of government intervention. "

What are you talking about? How did the government force insurance companies to jack up their premiums?

"Dan, are you blind to the fact that government is the cause of both general price inflation and medical inflation?"

How, specifically? And why on earth would the government choose to inflate medical costs at 4 times the rate of actual inflation, knowing they're on the hook for such a large percentage of that bill?

"I think you're missing my point. Intervention begets more intervention."

Free market leads to cherry-picking and monopolies screwing the customer...because they can.

"Never in history has government intervention ended well."

Using that logic, nothing has ever ended well.

"This country is in for some very hard times in the years immediately ahead."

I agree. We've dug ourselves a phenomenally deep hole.

"Not directly. Instead it will regulate and price them out of business."

Then why hasn't that happened in countries that spend a lower % of their GDP on health, cover virtually all, and experience better overall health outcomes?

Again, that is an effect of government intervention. Worse, there is only ONE government monopoly. Once it takes your money by compulsion, you are an expense.

No Ray it's an effect of corporations having an undue influence over government that allows them to deregulate to the point where a small number of insurers collude to form a virtual monopoly and hike prices.

A small handful of choices is not necessarily a bad thing when consumers are satisfied. That condition can only exist when government is not involved.

Bullshit.

A small number of choices that acts as a virtual monopoly is ALWAYS a bad thing.

When 7 outta ten bankrupcies based on medical bills occurs among people who ostensibly have insurance you have a real problem.

Corporations have proven they can't be trusted to regulate themselves.

The question isn't "Is American Health Care reform neccessary?"

The answer to that is an obvious YES.

The real question is "Will it be real reform that will lower costs and provide more comprehensive coverage to more Americans?"

The real fear here is that the same forces who bribed government into deregulating to allow them the dangerous monopoly they enjoy will now use their power to make this fix into a case where the cure is worse than the disease.

No public option and no anti-trust busting legislation to break up the virtual monopoly = FAIL.

K?

Be Well.

Without the slightest understanding of economic theory and history, interventionists like Ringmaster, Danforth and Dethspud think they know what they are looking at, almost always confusing effect for cause.

They probably have the sense not to attempt to repair a car because they know they know too little about car repair. Yet without the slightest bit of training, they think they understand something much more complex in market economics. Every problem they see has one solution: get government to beat up on the guilty parties. This will continue until everyone is beaten up, including them. The tragedy is that their conceit is so common.

You're your own worst enemy. I have nothing more to say on this thread.

#63 | Posted by Ray at 2009-09-19 01:29 PM | Reply | Flag: Without the slightest understanding of economic theory and history.

"Without the slightest understanding of economic theory and history, interventionists like Ringmaster, Danforth and Dethspud think they know what they are looking at, almost always confusing effect for cause."

Ray, I agree with most of your economic theories most of the time. That said, go fuck yourself. I've shown myself to be more conversant on a wider range of economics that you. You're a one-trick pony who may have to eat his gold some day.

"I have nothing more to say on this thread."

You didn't have that much to say in the first place.

One more and that's it.

No Ray it's an effect of corporations having an undue influence over government that allows them to deregulate to the point where a small number of insurers collude to form a virtual monopoly and hike prices.

Here's a ridiculous case where Spud holds government as the victim. Yet he imagines government is going to turn against its overlords.

Then why hasn't that happened in countries that spend a lower % of their GDP on health, cover virtually all, and experience better overall health outcomes?

I know in the case of Canada, they maintain a prescribed budget limit, then ration out the rest. Maybe Canadians have a healthier lifestyle or maybe government statistics cover up its inadequacies. Price is the mediator between supply and demand. When they cut price, they have to cut supply and demand. You can't get something for nothing.

Ray, I agree with most of your economic theories most of the time. That said, go fuck yourself. I've shown myself to be more conversant on a wider range of economics that you. You're a one-trick pony who may have to eat his gold some day.

Again, you prove you know nothing about the nature of money. You will be amazed at how much food gold will buy. You'll be equally amazed at how much food you will able to buy when the feds destroy the dollar. I don't have to tell you "fuck you." You're doing it to yourself.

"Without the slightest understanding of economic theory and history,"

You don't know shit about either, other than your ideological fairy tales from the Von Miserly Institute.

"You will be amazed at how much food gold will buy."

Assuming it's not worthless when you really need it to buy food.

Here's a ridiculous case where Spud holds government as the victim.

Victim?

Yer kidding right?

They are co-conspirators and equally culpable.

Yet he imagines government is going to turn against its overlords.

Really?

Let's go to the tape...

Spud: The real fear here is that the same forces who bribed government into deregulating to allow them the dangerous monopoly they enjoy will now use their power to make this fix into a case where the cure is worse than the disease.

Spud hopes that government may yet be able to turn this thing around but fears that the collusion will continue and the reform will end up being a sop to the insurers et al and not real reform.

You can't get something for nothing.

The Insurers do.

They regularily take money for insurance and then reneg on delivering on care.

Cos they can.

Part of the reason the fix is so neccessary.

Be Well.

Yup, you can't get something for nothing... unless you're a big insurance corporation or bank.

Intervention is not the solution; it is the problem. A problem that worsens every time it ratchets towards more intervention. I can't imagine why anybody would trust a government with a proven record of violence and incompetence. This is a religion of faith in government.

#49 | Posted by Ray at 2009-09-19 08:22 AM | Reply

Well said, but you're talking to rocks, don't forget.

Washboard - They never let me forget it.

The Ukraine was the breadbasket of Russia, until socialism arrived under the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Millions perished from 1932-33 in the famine that resulted in Europe's "breadbasket" after Soviet socialists imposed collectivist land management in the Ukraine. All seed stocks, grain, and silage were confiscated from Ukraine's farms. Farm animals were also taken. By the spring of 1933, an estimated 25,000 people died every day in the Ukraine. Estimates for the total number of casualties go up to 14 million.

Socialism's curse was so grave that people were driven to cannibalism.

You dems plan on eating granny?

"Socialism's curse was so grave that people were driven to cannibalism."

And what destroyed them? Roads? Schools? The Fire Department?

" You will be amazed at how much food gold will buy."

Too delusional. You're like the guy on the Titanic, thinking he can buy his way out of the enveloping ocean. You're pretending everyone will respect your exchange rate after armageddon, when in truth, the first person stronger than you will kill you for whatever meager coinage you have on your person. Your gold will only have a value to those who dispose of your corpse.

#76 | Posted by Danforth

Like Washboard said. Dumb as a rock.

"Like Washboard said. Dumb as a rock."

You're now aligning with Washboard?!?

Put down the mirror. You've officially jumped the shark.

#78 | Posted by Danforth

Your post about gold was so stupid, I lost all respect for you. Our government is getting away with plunder, murder and lies on a scale so massive, I can't imagine how this country will ever be the same again. I thought you were reasonably intelligent, but now I see you are as mesmerized by this thuggery as the rest.

"A prudent man sees danger and hides himself. But the simple go on and suffer for it." Proverbs 27:12

Do yourself a favor and listen to this man's outrage. He says it better than I can.

market-ticker.org

"Lots of people also die each year from smoking, drinking, poor diet and other lifestyle choices. Many people also suffer life-long injuries because they choose not to wear a seat belt or motorcycle helmet."

Particularly in the US where the life expectancy at birth trails Canadian and western European nations with 'socialized medicine'

"I know in the case of Canada.."

Canada has the WORST outcomes of all Countries with socialized medicine so it is probably no coincidence that the press often uses them to mislead their uncritical dupes.

I meant to say:

Canada has the WORST outcomes of all WESTERN EUROPEAN countries with socialized medicine so it is probably no coincidence that the press often uses them to mislead their uncritical dupes.

"Canada has the WORST outcomes of all WESTERN EUROPEAN countries"

I hat to break this to you, but Canada isn't in Western Europe.

"I hat to break this to you, but Canada isn't in Western Europe."

I must sound like Sarah Palin.

Should have been something like;

"Canada has the WORST outcomes when compared with WESTERN EUROPEAN countries with socialized medicine."

The same can also be said of the US.

"I must sound like Sarah Palin. "

Oh I hope not. :(

www.youtube.com

So, lack of insurance kills 45,000 Americans annually combined with 100's of thousands dying from Corporate Health Insurance "Death Panels" denying payment for their cures and those number continuing to increase as levels as rapid as Insurance company record profits
- and yet and ReFlubliCons "party" of "just say no" angrily again demands to "stay the course"..!??

Seriously, why do ReFlubliCons blatantly prove to always hate Americans so deperately and support any programs and massive tax dollars spent (in Iraq) or not spent (to increase Insurance corporate mass profits) as long as tons of profit being made and tons of innocent people and families are being hurt and murdered..??

In 2006 here were the leading causes of death:
* Heart disease: 631,636
* Cancer: 559,888
* Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 137,119
* Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 124,583
* Accidents (unintentional injuries): 121,599
* Diabetes: 72,449
* Alzheimer's disease: 72,432
* Influenza and Pneumonia: 56,326
* Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis:
45,344
* Septicemia: 34,234

Seems like the US has bigger problems to worry about than the inability to buy insurance. We should spend money on research to find treatment and cures for these diseases.

In 2004 a study said there were 18,000 deaths/yr from lack of insurance. As the political war escalates, so do the numbers.

I work in a hospital and I have NEVER seen anyone turned away for lack of insurance. Uninsured are simply termed self-pay and get the same services as any Blue Cross patient. I'd much rather be alive and have a debt collector call me than have my mom lament at my funeral that I didn't go to the ER for treatment.

"I work in a hospital and I have NEVER seen anyone turned away for lack of insurance."

As usual the wingnuts struggle to read. They didn't say they were turned away, dumbass, they said the uninsured had a 40 percent higher risk of death than those with private health insurance due to INADEQUATE care.

"Seems like the US has bigger problems to worry about than the inability to buy insurance. We should spend money on research to find treatment and cures for these diseases."

Wrong. Deaths due to lack of insurance are preventable while those due to the diseases you list many not be even if additional money is spent on research.

I'm not saying they were turned away. Even the story mentions that the man with appendicitis got care. He just waited too long to seek assistance. If you don't ask, how do you know a doctor won't help? Doctors see patients for reduced fees. There are payment plans. The office staff helps patients apply to pharmaceutical companies to get meds for free. The doctor calls sales reps and gets supplies for poor patients for free. Help is there if you don't sit around whining and feeling sorry for yourself. Make an effort and show you actually care about yourself and people are willing to help. America is the most charitable nation on earth!

No one died in this story from lack of insurance. They died from poor lifestyle choices (heart disease), being too pigheaded to go to the hospital (appendicitis), and a mystery affliction (act of G-d). No coroner ever writes lack of insurance as cause of death. All people can make an appointment to go see a doctor. Anyone can walk into an ER and ask to be seen. Only fools put dollars above a human life and if they choose to do so, I have a hard time working up an ounce of sympathy for them.

"CBS Disguises Single-Payer Group's 45,000 Deaths Claim as a 'Harvard' Study"

newsbusters.org

#5 | Posted by KBM
------------------
Yeah that figures. Those idiots didn't really do a study. After you subtract suicides, people who could afford health insurance and wouldn't pay for it, people who died at the scene of the accident or crime, you definitely don't have 45,000. These are liberals trying to justify their cause with dishonest arguments.

Try again!

Lonnie

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