I hate bloggers.

WOW! Flag this as desperate. So this is your pathetic attempt to discredit the march on 912...

It's desperate all right. A desperate attempt by riighties to make it look like they drew a far larger crowd than they actually did. It's a hoot that youd respond with such a pathetic whine, since the photo was shopped around by riighities.

I put the story up just a few minutes earlier than Redneckville; however, I'd hit my 2-story limit for the day. Here's some information that might be of interest:

Oh, wait, isn't that a photogrpah of Obama's Betelgeusian birth certificate?

Nate Silver has the best line so far regarding Kibbe's whopper.

But yesterday, someone told a real whopper. ABC News, citing the DC fire department, reported that between 60,000 and 70,000 people had attended the tea party rally at the Capitol. By the time this figure reached Michelle Malkin, however, it had been blown up to 2,000,000. There is a big difference, obviously, between 70,000 and 2,000,000. That's not a twofold or threefold exaggeration -- it's roughly a thirtyfold exaggeration.

The way this false estimate came into being is relatively simple: Matt Kibbe, the president of FreedomWorks, lied, claiming that ABC News had reported numbers of between 1.0 and 1.5 million when they never did anything of the sort. A few tweets later, the numbers had been exaggerated still further to 2 million. Kibbe wasn't "in error", as Malkin gently puts it. He lied. He did the equivalent of telling people that his penis is 53 inches long.

Yep... granted the photo was not in relation to the march. This freedomworks turd lied about the numbers.

Libs still whinning about the numbers of marchers on 912???? YEP STILL PATHETIC... But thanks for stopping bye.

And yes still flagged as desperate...

"By the time this figure reached Michelle Malkin, however, it had been blown up to 2,000,000. There is a big difference, obviously, between 70,000 and 2,000,000. That's not a twofold or threefold exaggeration -- it's roughly a thirtyfold exaggeration."

Vermin's calculator?

"He did the equivalent of telling people that his penis is 53 inches long."

Definitely Vermin's calculator.

The sad thing is these people don't know how they're being played like a two dollar fiddle. A former Cigna executive who quit in disgust talked about just that:

If you want to see real pathetic watch the MSNBC feed on it...wow...

CT: But this spring, health insurance executives promised to do away with pre-existing condition exclusions.

Potter: Empty rhetoric. That is the part of the PR campaign that they want you to see. The charm offensive. You'll see some executives on TV and read their quotes in newspapers. You'll hear them testify in Congress and promise (President) Obama they will work to help achieve reform. They want you to believe they're wearing white hats. But the other secret campaign is one they don't want you to see. They're working through these big PR firms that use conservative talk-shows hosts and editorial writers to be what they call third-party advocates. To be shills. To scare people by using terms like "government takeover" and "tax increases" and "socialism." It's fabrication and based on lies but that's fine with them as long as they achieve their end results.

CT: Which end results?

Potter: Cheating reform.

Looking at pictures 2-7 from doc's link, there is no fucking way that there was only 70k there.

"Desperate."

Actually, that's what I'd call taking a max of 70,000 and turning it into more than 1M, then using a bogus image (a twelve-year-old photograph -- in which the latest museum addition to the Mall is poof! gone, as in not there, absent) to "substantiate" the bogus claim.

But if that's s.o.p. for you and your friends, here are some shots you're sure to enjoy:

Death panels
Illegal immigrants to receive benefits
1M attended teaparty

nuf said.

"Actually, that's what I'd call taking a max of 70,000 and turning it into more than 1M..."

A statement not meant to be taken literally. For you riighties out there, I didn't mean to give you the impression that Someone In Control, e.g. an Authority Figure, actually took 70,000 demonstrators and really turned them into 1M demonstrators. That would be like magic. And magic, as well know, isn't real. Right, boys and girls? As Lewis Black might say, it's an ilooooooosion. Like the blown-up numbers for rally.

Yep... pathetic..

You guys should be ashamed.

Glen Beck knows that Venusian Libruls have had their foot on the necks of poor mistreated white folk in this country for far too long!

And as soon as he figures out how to spell, "Venusian", you are all in deep shit!

Every one of the folks here who argue against health care reform ought to be required to read TIMEX's link or else STFU. If you can't expose yourself to information which is important to the discussion then you really have no business pretending you have anything of value to say.

Every one of the folks here who argue against health care reform ought to be required to read TIMEX's link or else STFU.

I read it. who is against health care reform?

careful with your answer.

I now firmly believe this is true "Grass Roots" movement. Rush, Hannity, Beck, Malkin, et al plant the seeds in their Chia Pet listeners heads and water them daily with exactly what the insurance company's PR firms asked them to. So says a former high ranking longtime Cigna PR exec who recently quit in disgust. Everyone, left or right, should read his interview. Then you'll be truthfully informed.

I heard it was billions.

Eberly

These handful of insurance companies who hold a monopoly would love nothing better than for everyone to be required to have health insurance - provided there's no competition so they can keep the status quo while pretending to be playing ball, as this recently retired PR exec for Cigna states categorically in the linked interview. As it stands, 'competition' among health insurers is exactly the same as buying gas at Citgo or BP.

Right now, they're like The Simpsons Mr. Burns playing nice to get what he wants. A public option is the ONLY thing that will provide competition and keep costs from doubling every 8 years. Free markets haven't worked at all. The insurance companies know that, and so they're doing everything they can to keep it from happening - via their mouthpieces on the radio - again, as Mr. Potter, who headed up PR for Cigna for 15 years, says. He should know.

"They want you to believe they're wearing white hats. But the other secret campaign is one they don't want you to see. They're working through these big PR firms that use conservative talk-shows hosts and editorial writers to be what they call third-party advocates. To be shills. To scare people by using terms like "government takeover" and "tax increases" and "socialism." It's fabrication and based on lies but that's fine with them as long as they achieve their end results."

Potter should know.

There was all kinds a dealuhgashuns and innerests repreesented, from all a the neighboring planets and planetoids and some as far away as...well. a looooong ways away. Most of them personally known to Mr. Glennnnnn Beck hissef. Here are some a them, carefully documented and preesented for yer eddyfication in guaran-gawdamn-teed 100% genuiwhine pitchers:

Up until now the protesters were fake. Now the photos are fake. At least this time we have real protesters.

Things are improving though.

I say again desper....... you already know where I'm going with this...

Mystery

Your protesters are being led around by their noses. The former head of PR for Cigna said they'd hire outside PR firms who'd then get Rush, Hannity, and Co. to throw around words like "socialist", "government takeover" and thus do the insurance companies bidding. Little do they know they're being used and the joke's on them. If they want to be pawns in a game that'll hurt them in the long run it's a free country ...

"CT: But this spring, health insurance executives promised to do away with pre-existing condition exclusions.

Potter: Empty rhetoric. That is the part of the PR campaign that they want you to see. The charm offensive. You'll see some executives on TV and read their quotes in newspapers. You'll hear them testify in Congress and promise (President) Obama they will work to help achieve reform. They want you to believe they're wearing white hats. But the other secret campaign is one they don't want you to see. They're working through these big PR firms that use conservative talk-shows hosts and editorial writers to be what they call third-party advocates. To be shills. To scare people by using terms like "government takeover" and "tax increases" and "socialism." It's fabrication and based on lies but that's fine with them as long as they achieve their end results.

CT: Which end results?

Your protesters are being led around by their noses. The former head of PR for Cigna said they'd hire outside PR firms who'd then get Rush, Hannity, and Co. to throw around words like "socialist", "government takeover" and thus do the insurance companies bidding. Little do they know they're being used and the joke's on them. If they want to be pawns in a game that'll hurt them in the long run it's a free country ...

#31 | Posted by Timex

You're starting to sound like one of those "Healthers"

again

goddamn democrats said that it was fake because the flag was at halfmast FORGETTING about 9/11 which they would love to do anyway.

so now we are supposed to believe anything the assholes say?

I think not

"CT: Is it possible to have a decent health care system driven by profits?

Potter: I don't think so"

Hmmm..

So, i assume that he would believe in only a fully socialized system. A system that he says the insurance companies are trying to scare people with, by calling it a socialized system.

I find it interesting how many words this guy can say without saying anything but how much he hates insurance companies. He does not address any of the other driving factors in the cost of health care. He does not address any positives of the plans that are out there. He is just there to try to beat up the insurance companies. It would seem he is trying to drum up hatred and scare people into doing what he says is better without any real conversation.

No. What Potter knows, as a recent exec in the top echelons of the insurance industry, is that insurance companies will stoop to anything to pull the wool over anyone's eyes they can to keep their 30% administrative fees, doubled premiums every 8 years, denials of treatment, and multimillion dollar exec paychecks rolling in at your expense. It's a shame so many are so gullible as to believe anything else. A public option is the ONLY way to provide meaningful competition that'll keep premium costs down. Free markets sure haven't.

What the hell do we need insurance companies in the health care field for anyway? So they can eat up 28% more than Medicare out of every dollar spent?

"goddamn democrats said that it was fake..."

And, as it turns out, they were right...it didn't pass the smell test.

So this is your pathetic attempt to discredit the march on 912...

The march was already "discredited" because the marchers ideology is a bizarre mix of silliness, angsty ignorance, and weapons-grade batfuck insanity.

This article just shows the far right to be capable of deceit as well as stupidity.

In the end, nothing anyone didn't know already.

This Teabagger party was brought to you by:

Our Country Deserves Better PAC (OCDB) - a political action committee (PAC) formed in August 2008 to oppose the election of Democratic Party presidential candidate Barack Obama.

"again

goddamn democrats said that it was fake because the flag was at halfmast FORGETTING about 9/11 which they would love to do anyway.

so now we are supposed to believe anything the assholes say?

I think not
#34 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2009-09-14 06:39 PM"

Expletives aside, the photo was called a fake because, well it IS a fake! Back peddle all you want by throwing out some specious strawman that Democrats "would love" to forget about 911. Personally, I'd love to NOT have the memory of 911, but for a very different reason than you suppose, afkabl2.

Meanwhile, the 912 march has definite significance and is not to be (prudently) ignored. However, it strikes me as very curious as to WHY a fake photo was proffered. It was unnecessary and could only hurt the organizer's message. Did they think that the fake photo would NOT be "outed"? SERIOUSLY???

"so now we are supposed to believe anything the assholes say?"

That question almost makes sense, altho' I suspect that afkabl2 is refferring to different "assholes" than I have in mind!

RCade, PLEASE install an IRONY FLAG!

"ought to be required to read TIMEX's link or else STFU. If you can't expose yourself to information which is important..."
#21 | Posted by danni

Spoken like a true Democrat that is always short on facts of any kind!

This headline is a fake. The photo was pulled off a blogger's site which stated the march and date along with other marches for comparison. But then that would have required the author to actually read the captions instead of jumping to conclusions.

But then that would have required the author to actually read the captions instead of jumping to conclusions.

#43 | Posted by KBM

hmmm perhaps YOU should have read the captions? Or did you jump to a conclusion here?

This was the caption to the picture on the website.

Maybe this will finally put some of the speculation about the size of the DC tea party into perspective (click for a larger view):

It clearly leads the reader to believe this was a picture of the Teabaggers (note the reference to "the DC tea party".

Republican Women's Coffee & Donuts Club
Or-in DC circles....The Flab Four!

"March on Washington: How Big Was the Crowd?"

"Rumored number 2 million
"People meter" count 1.5 million
Eight "Pennsylvania Avenues" full of people 800 thousand
Grant Memorial area by Park Service method 250 thousand
Legacy media reports 70 thousand

"march on washington dc 9/12 taxpayer tea party protest"

PAJAMASMEDIA, yeah there's a reliable source.

How is Joe the Plumber anyway???

Well when you discredit each and every one of these, we can talk.

You will all know what the true numbers are after the 2010 elections. If there is any teeth in the Tea Party protestors you should see some big wins for the Republicans.

The only polls that matter are the ones on election day.

"How is Joe the Plumber anyway???"

Joe the Plumber supported McCain, hardly a conservative. If you consider that on the fringe, you should be scared for your lives after the turnout for this event.

I don't consider John McCain out on the fringe. I consider Joe the Plumber out on the fringe. Hell, Joe Wurzelbacher would probably support Francis the Talking Mule for president if you bought him a couple of cases of Miller Lite.

Hell, Joe Wurzelbacher would probably support Francis the Talking Mule for president if you bought him a couple of cases of Miller Lite.

#53 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

Much like free cigarettes helped get the current talking mule elected.

"If you consider that on the fringe, you should be scared for your lives after the turnout for this event."

Yeah, what was the turnout, anyway?

2 million? 1.5 million? A million? 150,000? 60,000?

Instead of photographic evidence, the Riight should contact whoever the Bushies got to put together Colin Powells "Iraq: OOOOOOOH! Bad!" speech to the UN Security Council.

The right's desperation is becoming more and more evident and their tactics down right pathetic. Seems like supporting them is a litmus test that defines just how stupid you are.

the evidence

"How is Joe the Plumber anyway???"

He's still around, awaaaaaay out there on the fringe near the bonfire where the loons dance and and bay at the moon. Recently, he got $10,000 for an appearance (www.usnews.com and washingtonindependent.com).

#51 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2009-09-15 08:57 AM | Reply

How soon until it is disclosed he did not pay taxes on that income?

"the evidence"

And where is Malkin's apology for reporting what she hadn't properly sourced?

It was pedo Glenn Beck himself that said the crowd was 60,000. 6 months in planning and all they could scare up was 60,000? Hell, Obama could drum up that many people in 10 minutes to watch him blow his nose. Poor poor republicans - if they weren't a bunch of theives and child molesters, I think I'd almost feel sorry for them.

GOP - R.I.P.

"How soon until it is disclosed he did not pay taxes on that income?"

Now that's a good question. Samuel "Joe" Wurzelbacher strikes me as one of those guys who's inevitably headed for a major-leage crash-and-burn.

#60 | Posted by HLAY2009 at 2009-09-15 09:45 AM | Reply | Flag: To stupid to realize that most conservatives have other things to do than travel to DC to protest.

60K people who didn't vote for Obama still don't like Obama.

Wow, Glenn! MissionAccoplishitfucked!!

To stupid to realize that most conservatives have other things to do than travel to DC to protest.

#62 | Posted by ELCIDCE90 at 2009-09-15 09:54 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag:

bwhahahahahahahaha

Well, I sure HOPE that 60,000 from across america can help those pitiful fucks in the next election!

Better thing to do? Better than keeping America from being taken over by the muslim socialists?
HOW could you have had ANYTHING better to do?

WHY do you hate America?

Liberals are so paranoid, this will be their downfall. Next thing you know, they'll claim to have pictures of Smokestacks on the Moon.

YES!!! WE ARE PARANOID!! We have all 3 branches of government, OUR GUY will have the WH for the next 7 years, Bush will be attached to the republican brand for YEARS to come, we are gaining the young voters while the old republicans are going their great reward everyday, we OWN the media ..... yep - we're paranoid all right .......

"It was pedo Glenn Beck himself "

Huh? Pedo? Got some evidence, even circumstantial? I think Beck is a manipulative fearmonger, an angry man with an agenda to enrich himself and be famous, but pedophile? I've seen this reference here before--by the same poster--and I gotta say, it does your argument no good to sling around "monster" labels.

"ABC NEWS WAS MIQUOTED ON CROWD SIZE:
ABC News Reported D.C. Rally Size in Tens of Thousands, Not 1M to 1.5M as Activist Said
abcnews.go.com

#4 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

I'm sure that abc wouldn't stretch the truth.

What did the DC fire department estimate it at?

"I'm sure that abc wouldn't stretch the truth."

How much of an partisan dolt are you? The organizer claimed that ABC had reported over a million, and ABC quickly stated they had done no such thing. If they had, there would obviously be a record of it. As none exists, the sensible question would be why did Kibbe purposefully lie?

WOW! Flag this as desperate. So this is your pathetic attempt to discredit the march on 912...

The marchers discredited themselves by claiming a crowd 10 to 20 times as large as it really was.

If they had claimed 100,000 or 200,000 people, it would have been an impressive protest. But some people inside or outside the effort tried to fool everybody.

The same thing happened on the left in antiwar demonstrations.

Anybody surprised? The right's whole shtick has been lies, lies and more lies. "We weren't warned about 9-11". "Saddam's getting Nigerian yellowcake". "We'll be greeted as liberators". "Iraq will cost $40 billion and last six months, tops". McCain has a plan to capture Osama. Obama is a Kenyan. Death panels.

No wonder only 28% of Americans trust them. That's half of thos ebelieving in UFOS and Elvis being alive.

What did the DC fire department estimate it at?
#69 | Posted by Sniper

I'm tired of doing your research for you. Check out if you're interested and report back.

Hint: There are no official estimates of the crowd size.

Who really cares what the actual number is since it was obvious that the amount of people was significant?

The lack of coverage on the part Obama's whore media was so revealing!!! And the fear... the fear on the part of Liberals is just... well... fun to watch. ROFLMAO!!!

This thread is quite Yawwnnn stimulating!

"Anybody surprised?"

Nope, it doesn't surprise me one bit that the Left is trying to downplay oppositon to president Obama.

Hey Don. When did Obama's whore media take over from Bush's apathetic media?

I heard it was billions.

#24 | Posted by mysterytoy

And you are laying on your sofa licking yourself where most people can't.

I heard it was billions.
#24 | Posted by mysterytoy

In MysteryToy's defense, that was an inside joke, aimed at me.

The lack of coverage on the part Obama's whore media was so revealing!!!

#74 | Posted by Dont_TreadonMe

Not really, I don't watch TV, and yet I knew about it. Good thing I listen to NPR.

"CT: But this spring, health insurance executives promised to do away with pre-existing condition exclusions.

#32 | Posted by Timex

You call your home insurance company;

You; Say, I think I want to add flood insurance to my home owners policy.

Agent; OK, I can come out and talk to you about it next Friday.

You; NO! I need it right now. My basement is half full of water right now.

Agent; I guess I can write one for you but it is going to cost you $150k for the first payment, due in 1 hour.

You; Hell, my house is only worth &150k. Why should I pay that much to replace my house. I thought all the other pollicy holders were to help me.

Don't you just love "pre-existing conditions"?

That's quite different, Snipe, from the preexisting conditions that are at issue in healthcare.

It also misses the point that health insurance is not the same, substantively or morally, as other kinds of insurance.

And the fear... the fear on the part of Liberals is just... well... fun to watch. ROFLMAO!!!

You mistake contempt for fear. Most liberals aren't too concerned about angsty conservative pleas for attention. We just think the world would be a better place had your mothers chosen to get abortions.

Death panels
Illegal immigrants to receive benefits
1M attended teaparty

nuf said.

#17 | Posted by danni

so now you are calling the fuckin liar president a liar because the white house wants to know put in citizenship checks...so if wilson and the rest of us were lieing...I want to hear your silly rational for the white houses doing this now.

and besides..
size doesnt matter..
the angle of the dangle does.

Every one of the folks here who argue against health care reform ought to be required to read TIMEX's link or else STFU. If you can't expose yourself to information which is important to the discussion then you really have no business pretending you have anything of value to say.

#21 | Posted by danni at 2009-09-14 05:07

again a comment laced with sanctamonious nonsense. congressmen know less about the house bill than most of the people in dc on saturday
and this white house move PROVEs that

Serious question...

Is 60k - 70k a significant protest?

And if, as Doc mentions, there are no official estimates of the crowd size, why are the libtards so willing to accept Nate Silver's estimate, who is an Obama supporter?

And have there been any estimates on the number of mullets seen in this crowd?

OKAY LIVE

NOT FAIR

you arent supposed to come up with anything that funny

"Serious question...Is 60k - 70k a significant protest?"

Obviously not to the folks who felt the need to pretend it was 15 times larger.

"...so willing to accept Nate Silver's estimate"

Probably because it was the consensus of all the folks without a dog in the hunt.

MORE siGNS FROM THE 'fake' protest

"the turds must be flushed"

"msnbc says there are 800 people here. thats 100 more than thier normal viewing audience"

Serious question...

Is 60k - 70k a significant protest?

#88 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

Not for D.C. Especially not after 6 months advance notice and blanket advertising via Beck, Rush, Hannity, et al

Probably because it was the consensus of all the folks without a dog in the hunt.

#92 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-09-15 11:23 AM

pragmatist... apathetic media... Bush? How can you even use those words in the same sentence?

TFDNihilist... NPR??? I really don't know what to say on that one.

Live or Die... I'm thinking that since Conservatives are usually working and paying everyone else's taxes, 10,000 would be significant, therefore 70,000 works just fine for me. But that is my humble opinion.

And seriously, no estimate on the mullets?

How about cut-offs?

"Who are the other folks?"

Everyone not connected to the teabaggers.

Everyone not connected to the teabaggers.

#98 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-09-15 11:30 AM

I've only heard estimates thrown around from righties (not reliable) and Nate Silver.

Who else has made an estimate?

"Who else has made an estimate?"

Do your own damn homework.

Methinks the (rethug) "ladies" doth protest too much!

Who cares what these people have to say? They're delusional idiots who confuse irrationality with patriotism.

Fuck 'em. Don't give them the attention they're craving. That only legitimizes their insanity.

Isn't it hard to protest when 1/2 the crowd has scrotums in their mouths?

"Who else has made an estimate?"

The grand wizard Glenn Beck himself said 60,000.

2 million? Maybe if they include the people who stumbled across it on CSPAN before as they surfed around looking for a college game to watch.

Seeing how this has become another example of why Photoshop should only be used by people who know what they're doing, perhaps this can be spun as a loaves & fishes thing? You know...circulate third-hand stories of St. Beck the Martyr reportedly being sighted walking across the pond at the Washington Monument; or his chubby-cheeked visage appearing on pieces of toast, crying crocodile koolaid tears? I mean, if you're going to push a whopper that big, why not go all the way?

2 million? Hardy-har-har...I'll give you 100,000--but that includes the 30,000 tourists that picked the wrong day to rubber neck.

The grand wizard Glenn Beck himself said 60,000.

#104 | Posted by HLAY2009

The GRAND BOO BA!

Who cares what these people have to say? They're delusional idiots who confuse irrationality with patriotism.

I particularly love it when they interview the crazy old ladies who believe that the Muslims are taking over the country.

"I particularly love it when they interview the crazy old ladies who believe that the Muslims are taking over the country."

I liked the part where the grand Boo Ba stuck the 1 black guy in front of the camera to say that is was " a diverse section of America". Then when they show the crowd, it looked like a meeting of kentucky kkk rejects. Fat white rednecks

from the top...

"I hate bloggers."

#1 | Posted by mysterytoy at 2009-09-14 04:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

What you really mean to say is that you,
"Hate the Truth, or those in search of it".

but then again, G.O.P. hasn't been in the
truth business for over 30 yrs.

Everyone not connected to the teabaggers.

#98 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-09-15 11:30 AM

Should have quoted...

Do your own damn homework.

#100 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-09-15 11:32 AM

Anyone else notice that there weren't any "Libruls" screaming at or anywhere near the Teabaggers, who were allowed to have their little rally?

Had the shoe been on the other foot we'd see the 'grass roots' (**cough***snicker**) yelling with faces all read an scrunched up carrying signs.

I particularly love it when they interview the crazy old ladies who believe that the Muslims are taking over the country.

Yeah, it has sucked ever since Obama ordered all tornado sirens to be rewired to sound calls to prayer. What's next? Are they going to ban the consumption of beer and ribs?

Goddamn cheese-eatin' urdu poetry-readin' godless pinkos! I want my country back. Waaaah.

The grand wizard Glenn Beck himself said 60,000.

Beck is no wizard. Aleister Crowley would cockslap him into oblivion.

Lizard. It's Grand Lizard.

You people are helpless.

lol at both of ya!

"tornado sirens rewired ... "
"grand lizard"

Thanks for the laughs. Good stuff!

Lizard. It's Grand Lizard.

Like Godzilla?

"Aleister Crowley would cockslap him into oblivion."

cthulu!!!!

"Just asking questions."

You obviously didn't read news from a single outlet that mattered. I get tired of doing research for the lazy.

Where Beck lost his sanity....

You obviously didn't read news from a single outlet that mattered. I get tired of doing research for the lazy.

#119 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-09-15 12:05 PM

cthulu!!!!

Perhaps Cthulu offered him fame in exchange for sanity.

"Not asking you to do research, just if you already knew the answer. "

Yes, I know the answer. Your turn to educate yourself.

Yes, I know the answer. [citation needed]

#123 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-09-15 12:12 PM

" [citation needed]"

Do your own damn homework.

Do your own damn homework.

#125 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-09-15 12:14 PM

"I have been, while simultaneously having this discussion. I'm not sure that you have however, unless you want to prove me wrong with an answer detailing the entire crowd estimate debate, with links, charts, and quotable sources."

Then feel free to post the "links, charts, and quotable sources" you've found.

LOL, so hard to find good work these days.

ABC
+
DC Police
__________
accepting the low ball estimate

Sorry teabaggers

According to the university of illinois, they looked a an aerial shot and estimated the crowd at 1.2 million... For whatever that's worth.

It is nice to see a conservative movement gain some traction, too bad it was down played so hard by the media.

Had this been a liberal event, the coverage would have been at least 10 fold, and you are lying to yourself if you think otherwise.

"According to the university of illinois, they looked a an aerial shot and estimated the crowd at 1.2 million"

I googled Illinois tea crowd estimate and found no results pertaining to the 9/12 gathering. Please provide a link to your assertion.....

LM

"According to the university of illinois, they looked a an aerial shot and estimated the crowd at 1.2 million"

Aren't these the same people who looked at Iraq and saw WMD's?

It's actally a photogrpah of a Promise Keepers March from 1997 ( 209.157.64.201), with a "thank you" to TIMEX (images.google.com).

#6 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

Yes, Doc.

and down below:

"THIS PHOTO IS NOT FROM THE TEA PARTY

Please be careful as this photo is from the million man march. The left and nutroots are using it as a tactic to discredit the real photos. Real photos will have a huge white tent in middle of field. "

DOC! What a moron.

This is from a Conservative blog exposing the whole thing is from the a Left-wing blog!!!

You didn't even check it out first?

PRICELESS!

The link is to a riiightie site where someone was trying to alert the similarly-inclined idiots using the photo to support ludicrous assertions about gargantuan attendance not to use the photo. Which had already been used by riiighties for just that purpose. Thereby exposing them to ridicule because of their ignorance. It's akin to what happens to you all the time, Eddie.

Jeezus, kiddo, please, next time try and get up to speed before jumping into the water without adequate swimming skills or a life vest.

"This is from a Conservative blog exposing the whole thing is from the a Left-wing blog!!!"

Okay, Eddie, you want to prove -- with credible links -- that lefties inflated the estimates of how many bozos showed up for this rally and who started using that photograph first and when and where? I mean, if they "exposed" the lefties' plot there must be some evidence, no? Or are you just going to swallow their contention hook, line, and sinker? GUUUUUUULP!

#135 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

What part of

"The left are using it as a tactic to discredit the real photos."

Do you NOT understand?

Are you being willfully ignorant?

It's right there in black and white, but you choose to think it says something different.

Sorry, Doc, You fucked up, you really need to get passed it.

According to the university of illinois, they looked a an aerial shot and estimated the crowd at 1.2 million... For whatever that's worth.

That's interesting especially considering that whole area is restricted airspace.

Or are you just going to swallow their contention hook, line, and sinker? GUUUUUUULP!

#136 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

LOL!! Self-retorting.

I know that it's on the HuffPo, but did the HuffPo actually identify the bloggers? Uhhhhhhh. NO!

They just randomly put an article up hoping that idiots like you would believe them. AND YOU DID!!!

Where's the proof?

LOL!!!!

you are exposed and you don't even know it!

"The left are using it as a tactic to discredit the real photos."

Eddie, what part of this do you not understand:

"The link is to a riiightie site where someone was trying to alert the similarly-inclined idiots using the photo to support ludicrous assertions about gargantuan attendance not to use the photo. Which had already been used by riiighties for just that purpose. Thereby exposing them to ridicule because of their ignorance. It's akin to what happens to you all the time, Eddie."

?

I see you've got the hook, but how're you doing sallowing the line? Remember, sinker to follow, Eddie, sinker to follow.

" that whole area is restricted airspace. "

Posted by RingMaster

No.

The Washington ADIZ requires specific clearance for flight.

#139 | Posted by Eddie| : Flag: ADD/ADHD

I count another 14 airports in the ADIZ.

I see you've got the hook, but how're you doing sallowing the line? Remember, sinker to follow, Eddie, sinker to follow.

#140 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

I see that a jackass like you is not going to admit when he's been exposed.

But I can have all kinds of fun making fun of you.

LOL...

Keep it up Doc, it's really funny.

#139 | Posted by Eddie| : Flag: ADD/ADHD

#142 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

A confirmation that you have NOTHING to support your arguement.

Thx, Doc.

Restricted airspace is the red with hash lines toward the inside.

#145 | Posted by Eddie at 2009-09-15 01:42 PM | Reply | Flag: Can't even spell argument.

"I know that it's on the HuffPo, but did the HuffPo actually identify the bloggers? Uhhhhhhh. NO!
They just randomly put an article up hoping that idiots like you would believe them. AND YOU DID!!!
Where's the proof?"

Eddie (Mrs. Haskell's favorite son) shrieks.

I see that a jackass like you is not going to admit when he's been exposed.
144 | Posted by Eddie

Check the link in #148, Eddie. It's not a leftie plot; it's a riiightie screw up.

Eddie

reading is fun(damental)!

This from the website sayanythingblog.com

Update: As was noted in the comments, the picture below in the original post is of the wrong rally. This ground-level picture of the rally clearly shows that it didn't take place on the mall nearly as extensively as the image I mistakenly posted does.

oops!

Eddie?
Are you there?
Earth to Eddie...
Earth to Eddie...

When I was being forced to do my own homework per the discussion above, I came across an article that had a very good point.

To paraphrase the point; the protest, even if representing a minority, was very significant, because it would represent a very passionate minority. 60,000-70,000 protesting in D.C. is nothing to sneeze at, and would have garnered attention and credibility for the tea party movement. However, the conversation is focused on their exaggerations and lies in how big the protest was, so they may have just blown an incredible opportunity.

Eddie?
Are you there?
Earth to Eddie...
Earth to Eddie...

#152 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

Oops. HuffPo updated their story from yesterday.

I should have re-read the Huffpo article.

At least they are honest when they make a mistake.

If they had represented the march truthfully nothing would have been said however once the lie was detected, the lie overshadowed the event.

"When I was being forced to do my own homework per the discussion above, I came across an article that had a very good point.

To paraphrase the point; the protest, even if representing a minority, was very significant, because it would represent a very passionate minority. 60,000-70,000 protesting in D.C. is nothing to sneeze at, and would have garnered attention and credibility for the tea party movement. However, the conversation is focused on their exaggerations and lies in how big the protest was, so they may have just blown an incredible opportunity.
#153 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2009-09-15 02:02 PM"

As was already stated in my post #41 (see above):

"Meanwhile, the 912 march has definite significance and is not to be (prudently) ignored. However, it strikes me as very curious as to WHY a fake photo was proffered. It was unnecessary and could only hurt the organizer's message. Did they think that the fake photo would NOT be "outed"? SERIOUSLY???"

I dunno how many were there, but 60K seems to be a lowball estimate. Skip to the end of the video on the bottom and look at the crowd behind the girl talking. There's a LOT of people there.

#153 - Good point

At least they are honest when they make a mistake.
#154 | Posted by Eddie

Well, they've got you beat there, don't they, Eddie?

Death panels
Illegal immigrants to receive benefits
1M attended teaparty

nuf said.

#17 | Posted by danni

dumb bitch
moron,
idiot

nuff said

#153 - Good point

#159 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

I've re-read a few of your posts Doc and I'm trying to give you a chance.

Are you saying "good point" that 60-70 passionate protesters in DC or are you saying that they missed their point by overblowing the numbers?

Let me point something out to you.

The Left are over-reporting that a few Conservatives over-stated the numbers on the actual day of the event and that a single picture from a past event may have been passed around among similar pictures of the same day.

My point is that large Left-wing Blogs like the HuffPo are STILL reporting on mistakes that were corrected.

Are you taking this over-reporting hook, line and sinker?

*grin*

*grin*

#162 | Posted by Eddie at 2009-09-15 02:51 PM | Reply | Flag: Girlie boy

"To paraphrase the point; the protest, even if representing a minority, was very significant, because it would represent a very passionate minority. 60,000-70,000 protesting in D.C. is nothing to sneeze at, and would have garnered attention and credibility for the tea party movement. However, the conversation is focused on their exaggerations and lies in how big the protest was, so they may have just blown an incredible opportunity.
#153 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2009-09-15 02:02 PM""

So, Doc,

It seems that the March would have more impact (60-70 passionate people) is the Left were not consantly playing it down.

"So, Doc,

It seems that the March would have more impact (60-70 passionate people) is the Left were not consantly playing it down.
#164 | Posted by Eddie at 2009-09-15 02:59 PM"

A swing and a miss!

So, Eddie.
The point is that 60-70K passionate people WOULD have had more impact if the Teabaggers had not only inflated the crowd estimates (a common enough occurence either from inexperience with making crowd estimates and/or intentionally due to an agenda) but then used a bogus photo as proof. The first action and certainly the second action distracts from (what I assume) is their intended message (at best!) and calls their motivations and even their message itself into question. Don't blame the messenger for pointing out the mistake. It's the Teabagger's error.

60 to 70 thousand people is not significant. It's actually quite pathetic, hence the reason the WingDings felt they needed to pad the numbers.

Let's put this into some perspective, but first, did anyone else notice that every teabagging goon who mugged it up for the cameras ALL stated there was 2 million people there!? It was almost as if they coordinated it --- ahead of time.

Anyway, back to perspective.

in February of 2003, protesting the Iraq war in new York there were 300,000 plus, in LA, 50,000, in san fran, 150,000, in Colorado springs 4,000 alone were attacked and dispersed by police with Pepper spray, tear gas and stun guns, in Seattle 50,000 people congregated, then there was Philly, Chicago, Florida and even Puerto Rico who reported crowds in the tens of thousands.

We also have other events.

In December of 1994, Rod Stewart performed for 3.5 Million people.

On July fifth, 800,000 attended the New York Philharmonic Orchestra concert in Central park

In 1981, 500,000 paid to see ---- Simon and Garfunkle.

So, when relatively compared to other events of less significance, this teabag party, like all the rest, was a pathetic failure.

More people watched Sponge bob square pants Yesterday than Attended ALL the Teabag Parties Combined!

not as impressive as the 100 man march

This is just getting to be too fucking funny.

If I were a dumb fucking righty, I would start to wonder why these crazy fucksticks continue to lie.

Oh well, I'll just point and laugh at all the dumb fucking cry babies as they show no regard for America's election process.

We need to beat these fuckers in another civil war to remind them that they lost the last one.

So, Eddie.
The point is that 60-70K passionate people WOULD have had more impact if the Teabaggers had not only inflated the crowd estimates (a common enough occurence either from inexperience with making crowd estimates and/or intentionally due to an agenda) but then used a bogus photo as proof. The first action and certainly the second action distracts from (what I assume) is their intended message (at best!) and calls their motivations and even their message itself into question. Don't blame the messenger for pointing out the mistake. It's the Teabagger's error.

#165 | Posted by TrueBlue

And... You're OUT!

Don't blaim the messenger? Wow! Talk about abusing a metaphor.

It's not killing the messenger, It's an attack on a successful manuver by the Right.

Messenger... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Conservatives show up Town Halls to speak out about what is going on in Washington.

The Left are all over this TO THIS DAY!!! Calling the average Conservative "Racist", "Redneck", "Uneducated", etc. Turns out. None true. The opposite is true.

The Left shows desparation by doing this.

If I were a dumb fucking righty, I would start to wonder why these crazy fucksticks continue to lie.

#169 | Posted by Manypaths

At least you can admit that the Left are lying.

It's about time.

We need to beat these fuckers in another civil war to remind them that they lost the last one.

#169 | Posted by Manypaths

Uh.... Didn't America beat the Confederacy (Democrats)?

"It's not killing the messenger, It's an attack on a successful manuver by the Right."

I thought the Teabaggers weren't all rightwingers. Interesting. Very interesting.

(For the record, I think it's very cool when any group can mobilize and protest peacefully and with a clear message. Of course, the message here seems to be at least a little disjointed, particularly given the quote I posted earlier today--or was it yesterday.)

"Uh.... Didn't America beat the Confederacy (Democrats)?"

No, the Union beat the Confederacy. America survived.

And why do you assert that the Confederacy equals Democrats? I have never seen that battle as Republican vs. Democrat, and in case anyone has forgotten, parties change over time. Lincoln was a Republican, but you'd be hard-pressed to find someone like him in the Republican party today (or probably any party).

#167 | Posted by Redneckville

Uh, Redneck?

There were 9/12 events all over the US at the same time.

The 3.5 million for Rod Stewert caught my eye. Do you have a link for this other than a single sentence in Wikipedia. It says that he once performed for 3.5 million people on a beach... That's a HUGE beach!!!

60 to 70 thousand people is not significant. It's actually quite pathetic, hence the reason the WingDings felt they needed to pad the numbers.

Let's put this into some perspective, but first, did anyone else notice that every teabagging goon who mugged it up for the cameras ALL stated there was 2 million people there!? It was almost as if they coordinated it --- ahead of time.

Anyway, back to perspective.

in February of 2003, protesting the Iraq war in new York there were 300,000 plus, in LA, 50,000, in san fran, 150,000, in Colorado springs 4,000 alone were attacked and dispersed by police with Pepper spray, tear gas and stun guns, in Seattle 50,000 people congregated, then there was Philly, Chicago, Florida and even Puerto Rico who reported crowds in the tens of thousands.

We also have other events.

In December of 1994, Rod Stewart performed for 3.5 Million people.

On July fifth, 800,000 attended the New York Philharmonic Orchestra concert in Central park

In 1981, 500,000 paid to see ---- Simon and Garfunkle.

So, when relatively compared to other events of less significance, this teabag party, like all the rest, was a pathetic failure.

More people watched Sponge bob square pants Yesterday than Attended ALL the Teabag Parties Combined!

#167 | Posted by Redneckville at 2009-09-15 03:32 PM

Only in Redneckville's world.

Yeah, the South is the Democrats strong hold.

We know that you're fucking stupid ed, no need to remind us all the time.

We get it.

You're a dumbfuck.

Let's move on.

hay dok, how big was the crowd. You seem to have set yourself up as an expert.

not as impressive as the 100 man march

#168 | POSTED BY BPH320 AT 2009-09-15 03:48 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Good point. The million man march got ridiculed for far higher turnout than the tea-bagger protest, as you just demonstrated. Ironic use of the million man march, given what the photo used by the tea-baggers to promote their crowd size.

Oops.

We need to beat these fuckers in another civil war to remind them that they lost the last one.

#169 | Posted by Manypaths

I hope you could pull that off without two thirds of the U.S. Military..

Rush told the stupid people that more individuals showed up that day then Obama's Inauguration and the stupid little fucks think it's true.

When you get lied to by a drug addicted drop out and consider yourself informed, there's not much more the rest of us can do but point and laugh at how fucking pathetic you are.

Oh, and by the way, I looked at my Birth Certificate the other day, and guess what it doesn't say.

It doesn't say "Birth Certificate", it says "Certificate of Live Birth".

What does your say?

I hope you could pull that off without two thirds of the U.S. Military..

#180 | Posted by LibertyMonger

Obama controls 100% of it. Nothing to worry about. The South and their hate and their prejudice will fall yet again.

"What does your say?"

Report of birth.

What does your say?

#181 | Posted by Manypaths at 2009-09-15 04:57 PM | Flag: KUMA

And why do you assert that the Confederacy equals Democrats?
#174 | Posted by pragmatist

I didn't. I was retorting directly to another post. Seemed appropriate.

Most of the South were Democrats.

"Conservatives show up Town Halls to speak out about what is going on in Washington."

Umm, so for eight years while the us Taxpayer hemorrhaged 2 Trillion Dollars ------ these people where at Town Halls Speaking Out?

Not Hardly!

In reality they were chanting "Stay the Course" as bush blew the public trust, while simultaneously hurling Insults of "bush hater" and accusing anyone who questioned bush as "Against America" and Demanding the HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS (real numbers) be Tased and Beaten!

Yet you accuse the "left" of Desperation?

Your argument is So Disingenuous ---- Just Like All The Other Tea Baggers! But I guess you had to fill some space with something to get those embarrassing comparisons out of view

So let me repeat:
Half a Million People (that's 500,000) PAID money to be tortured by Simon and Garfunkle! That's 4 times the Number that went to this FREE rally that you assert people got excited about!

What a Fucking Joke!

"I bet you vote next time Racist! hehe"

Most of the South were Democrats.

#185 | Posted by Eddie

And they all fucking moved since huh?

Left their confederate fucking flags hanging on the wall and split for Vermont right?

I told you, we get it. You're fucking stupid. We fucking get it.

Yet you accuse the "left" of Desperation?

Your argument is So Disingenuous ---- Just Like All The Other Tea Baggers! But I guess you had to fill some space with something to get those embarrassing comparisons out of view

#186 | Posted by Redneckville

Uh... Talking about fake photos for days after when everything was corrected is not desparate?

Can't you find anything else to talk about?

Comeon Redneck, you can't honestly discount the march on Saturday as nothing can you?

Why are you trying to compare the March to a Rock Concert?

Here's food for thought. If the numbers at this march were over-stated, don't you think that the numbers at any Lib event is going to be over-stated as well?

Who's being disingenuous?

Do you try to think before posting or do you just post and hope for the best?

I love that RedNeckVille keeps shitting on the Iraq War protests by suggesting that protests smaller than Simon & Garfunkle's half a mil are fucking jokes.

Left their confederate fucking flags hanging on the wall and split for Vermont right?

I told you, we get it. You're fucking stupid. We fucking get it.

#188 | Posted by Manypaths

Having a few too many?

LOL.

Is it your day off or are you drinking at work?

Redneck,

care to retract?

SHUT UP EDDIE, YOU'RE A STUPID STUPID MAN!!!
-- Manypaths.

What a Fucking Joke!

#186 | Posted by Redneckville

Actually, the joke is on you.

Southern Democrats regrouped into various vigilante organizations such as the Ku Klux Klan and the White League. Eventually "Redemption" was finalized in the Compromise of 1877 and the Redeemers gained control throughout the South. As the New Deal began to liberalize Democrats as a whole, Southern Democrats largely stayed as conservative as they had always been, with some even breaking off to form farther right-wing splinters like the Dixiecrats.

That's your team buddy. You and the Nigger Haters.

Conservative Protesters are "Angry Mobs" who do nothing but shout down and disrupt their government leaders...

So what does that make the likes of Code Pink who often interupted and shouted down Conservatives... the various egg thowers (Remember when Arnold was hit with an egg?)... the environmentalist who choose to burn down a Hummer dealership... or the Liberal nut jobs at PETA who assault people wearing fur by throwing paint on them... or Harry Reid who publicly referred to President Bush as a Liar and a Looser... Or the Democrat who's 3rd in command accusing the CIA of Lying... or when the entire Left side of the isle booed Bush during a National Address... need I go on?

How short the memory is of a Liberal. Or maybe the memory isn't the problem, but the lack of consistency and accountability. Do you Liberals really understand how stupid you look with your asinine comments?

I think some of those people went to jail.

Not sure you can find many people defending the actions of Code Pink in here the way righties defend the countless lies being told.

Face it, you're a hater that will hate everything fdor the next 7 years or more.

There is no pleaseing the haters or the bigots. Why try?

Code Pink versus one of your Reps in Congress. See why we think you are fucking stupid?

Didn't think so......

#196 | Posted by Manypaths

I don't associate myself with the same people you are talking about.

The people you are talking about ran Louisiana before and during Katrina. Fucked it up badly, then turned around and blaimed the Feds, while blacks were dying in NOLA.

Since Huey Long in the '30 Up until Katrina, Louisiana had been run by Liberal Democrats and the state was corrupt, white and racist.

You know them well. The same Liberal Democrats are in Washington now representing other states.

The people of Louisiana finally said ENOUGH and that's why a Conservative Republican is Governor now!

I hope you could pull that off without two thirds of the U.S. Military.

People who have volunteered to defend the United States of America would not hesitate for a moment in destroying a band of treasonous pissants from the Armpit of America. Fortunately for rightwing idiots out there, deploying the army in such a situation is unconstitutional and the FBI can handle those people just fine.

#197 | Posted by Dont_TreadonMe

The Town Hall attendees were VERY civil next to the average Liberal.

"The people of Louisiana finally said ENOUGH and that's why a Conservative Republican is Governor now!"

Bet he won't get reelected once they find out Jindi's a Hindi.

#198 | Posted by Manypaths

Manypaths, you'd better stop now. I can't bring myself to continue beating you because picking on retarded drunks is not my style.

Bet he won't get reelected once they find out Jindi's a Hindi.

#202 | Posted by nullifidian

Do you have a link?

Nice language... kiss your mommmy with that mouth?

I'm a hater of policies that take this country in the wrong direction. I will always defend a righy or lefty when their actions hold true to the founding documents of this country.

Obama is not doing a very good job... face the facts. Everything he's promised of his on accord hasn't even been close to fruition. He set the expectations... not me, or anyone else... but Obama set the expectations and he's failed. He has the majority in both the House and Senate... so if the plan is so good, go ahead an pass it!!! Want to raise taxes on the rich... PASS IT!!! Why stop there... Ram through Cap and Trade... PASS IT!!!

Because your too busy making sure your Liberal Jersey is cleaned and pressed, you're too dense to realize his own party doesn't like what he's doing and is therefore the reason he's failing.

Pass your agenda and see what the "loud minority" does in 2010 and 2012.

I'm a hater of policies that take this country in the wrong direction. I will always defend a righy or lefty when their actions hold true to the founding documents of this country.

Obama is not doing a very good job...

#205 | Posted by Dont_TreadonMe

DING DING DING.

Understatement of the Day Award

Null is out looking for a Jindi Hindi link.

LOL

Do you have a link?

#204 | Posted by Eddie at 2009-09-15 05:35 PM | Reply | Flag: Retarded

So is their outrage.

Pass your agenda and see what the "loud minority" does in 2010 and 2012.

#205 | Posted by Dont_TreadonMe

Just attempting to pass it has caused considerable self-inflicted damage to the Democrats and they don't even know it.

#208 | Posted by nullifidian

LOL!!!

Self-retorting

#208 | Posted by nullifidian

The Libs are falling like flies today.

#212 | Posted by Eddie

How much are you paid to write stupid comments? I mean...you have to be paid. No one is that stupid.

#211

And Eddie proves once again he doesn't understand the concept of a self-retorting retort.

The Town Hall attendees were VERY civil next to the average Liberal.

#201 | Posted by Eddie Now THAT is just Palin Ridiculous!

Either you have ethics and are honest (Con or Lib) or you are a liar and a cheat.

If the photos were photo-shopped to make a propaganda point, then someone is a big time liar.

You stupid democrats wait til election day and see if they are fake

"You stupid democrats wait til election day and see if they are fake"

LOL

Sorry for laughing but I had a visual of you sitting on the floor kicking your feet and slamming your fists on the floor as you said that.

LMBO

I'm sure that abc wouldn't stretch the truth.

What did the DC fire department estimate it at?

#69 | Posted by Sniper at 2009-09-15 10:39 AM | Reply | Flag:

I'm sure you'd never stretch the truth, would you, LIAR....

Don't make me dig up your lying ass posts...

"I'm sure that abc wouldn't stretch the truth.

What did the DC fire department estimate it at?
#69 | Posted by Sniper at 2009-09-15 10:39 AM

60-70K

The Town Hall attendees were VERY civil next to the average Liberal.

#201 | Posted by Eddie Now THAT is just Palin Ridiculous!

#215 | Posted by donnerboy

Wow. I've never heard you say the Palin was truthful. This is a new one for you.

#212 | Posted by Eddie

How much are you paid to write stupid comments? I mean...you have to be paid. No one is that stupid.

#213 | Posted by Sycophant

I'm just saying that the Libs aren't having a good day today. It's like their being stupid on purpose.

* they're being

Talk about self retorting. Funny!

"Uh... Talking about fake photos for days after when everything was corrected is not desparate? "

"corrected" What a hoot!
Cornered and forced to admit in small print is MUCH closer to the truth. Curiously, there are STILL some who refuse to believe that it was not a "millionaire". You have a creative use of the word "corrected"!

"Can't you find anything else to talk about? "
Sure, but many usually use OTHER threads for OTHER topics. Try it.

"Comeon Redneck, you can't honestly discount the march on Saturday as nothing can you?
Why are you trying to compare the March to a Rock Concert? "

I can't speak for RNV, but he didn't write that it was "nothing". It would appear he thinks it was on the par of a "Rock Concert".

"Here's food for thought. If the numbers at this march were over-stated, don't you think that the numbers at any Lib event is going to be over-stated as well? "

Strawman!

"Who's being disingenuous? "

You are.

"Do you try to think before posting or do you just post and hope for the best?
#189 | Posted by Eddie at 2009-09-15 05:07 PM"

IRONY FLAG (or is it just a simple self-retort?)!

"Talk about self retorting. "

The next person, left, right or center, that uses that phrase "self retort" should be burned at the stake.

The next person, left, right or center, that uses that phrase "self retort" should be burned at the stake.

Posted by nullifidian at 2009-09-15 11:00 PM | Reply

Self Retort

LOL

I just knew SOMEONE was going to say it!

"should be burned at the stake."

Retort retort?

here's a 1959 protest scene that is uncanny in it's resemblance to the tea party protest, actually appears to be the same people:

if you look at the vids of the potussa inauguration day - crowds were reported at 1.8 million - there were as many at the TPP RALLY in deecee - check beck:

BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Kinda like Iran, huh?

I saw my dog-park friend who went to the march, yesterday.

She told me that the D.C. police said a million and a half and wouldn't back down of that figure.

She has a standard poodle.

I am beginning to think the dog is the smart one.

Pete Piringer, public affairs officer for the D.C. Fire and Emergency Department, said the local government no longer provides official crowd estimates because they can become politicized. But the day of the rally, Piringer unofficially told one reporter that he thought between 60,000 and 75,000 people had shown up.

"It was in no way an official estimate," he said.

While 75,000 is in no way 'official', it's a whole lot more official than 2 million.

BTW, why didn't Glenn Beck show up for his own party?

Libs still whinning about the numbers of marchers on 912???? YEP STILL PATHETIC... But thanks for stopping bye.

And yes still flagged as desperate...

#9 | Posted by LibertyMonger at 2009-09-14 04:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

Pointing out inaccuracies is now 'whining'?

You and Joe Wilson....turds of a feather.....

BTW, why didn't Glenn Beck show up for his own party?

#233 | Posted by COMMONSENSE

Perhaps he and Rush were doing a weekend 'rehab touchup'.

This was obviously fake and not indicative of the photos on the different blogs. I noticed left leaning sits showed only close ups or ONLY the mall which had a large area closed to us for a while. They don't show the people literally filling the streets around the capitol. Real photos of the event show white tents in the mall toward the monument and flags at half mast. Official estimates are closer to a million. Despite denials, Washington knows it.

AGAVEK its post #236. They don't get it.. Its like trying to lead Hellen Kellar to water with alot of the people on this topic. Dozens more picture links have been published here and still nothing....

But we can take comfort in the fact that its the 16th and their vag's still have sand in them..

and their vag's still have sand in them..

#237 | Posted by LibertyMonger | Flag: Likes To Play In The Sandbox

And without a moments rest AGAVEK here is our exhibit A....

Official estimates are closer to a million...

A million wot?

Lies you idiots have told since the Dems nominated Obama?

Spud calls that a conservative estimate.

The crowd?

No dude, 60-70k.

After 6 months of hype and build up and millions of corporate dollars spent and masive amounts of time being talked up on reichwing radio and on Faux News that's all you could come up with.

GOPhers FAIL.

EPICally.

Obama ran on the idea that he was gonna reform the clusterfuck that is the health care crisis in the United States, that's wot the people elected him to do and that's wot he's doing.

This insane idea from the right that this is somehow a surprise move by Obama akin to socialism is more than just a little nuts.

The fact that some desperate rtards like Eddie here are trying to spin this as a "bad day" for the left is farkin' hilarious.

Michelle Malkin was quoting the 2 million number.

Is she part of the left wing conspiracy too now?

LOL.

Poor boy's brain has been in the brainwashing machine with the spin cycle on high fer far too long, obviously.

This astroturfed faux protest that consisted of a few whiners, weirdos, anti-choicers, birfers, Secret Mulsimites, closet racists and, of course, Glenn Beck has been exposed for the sham it always was.

So wot have we learned by all this?

That the right are desperate, wrong and apparently, very, very stupid.

Go figure.

Be Well.

/As he do
stage left.

Spud,

Obamacare is almost dead.

Deal with it.

Jeff J,

7 outta 10 families who declared bankrupcies due to medical bills last year in the US had health insurance.

If Obama doesn't reform health care in America your family may be next.

So you better hope he does wot he was elected to do.

Deal with it.

Be Well.

Spud,

I am personally responsible enough to maintain my health-care insurance, even at the expense of other non-essentials.

Deal with it.

Oh, by the way, how do you like the 'average' 18-month waiting-time for medical-care?

Is that cool with you?

Do you live in Utopia?

PS - Am I a racist for opposing Obama on this?

Riddle me this, Spud...

Why in the fuck are Canadians crossing the Blue Water Bridge and the Ambassador Bridge in droves to receive cancer treatment here in Michigan?

Why is that?

#245 | Posted by agavek

No shit.

80+K tax-paying producers taking time out of their lives to protest government gluttony?

The left used to argue that dissention was patriotic, nowadays it's racist.

I am personally responsible enough to maintain my health-care insurance, even at the expense of other non-essentials.

Deal with it.

Wot part of "had health care and still went bankrupt" are you not getting, Jeff?

Oh, by the way, how do you like the 'average' 18-month waiting-time for medical-care?

Is that cool with you?

Actually it's fucking hilarious, thanx fer askin'.

That 18 month figure was pulled out of someone's ass and is meaningless, different procedures require different wait times.

Are wait times an issue in Canada? Sure they are which is why we're working on improving the system.

Bottom line Jeff is that Canada with it's "socialistic" medical system insures everybody at a smaller percentage of GDP than does the US which let MILLIONS fall by the wayside and also lets those who think they have insurance get ripped off by an uncaring, greedy, virtual monopoly.

Do you live in Utopia?

Did Spud claim too?

Are you heavily invested in straw futures?

Riddle me this, Spud...

Why in the fuck are Canadians crossing the Blue Water Bridge and the Ambassador Bridge in droves to receive cancer treatment here in Michigan?

Why is that?

Same reason flock from around the world to access American medical care. Cos they can afford to despite the horrific expense.

Riddle Spud this, Jeff...

Why did so many American come over the border into Canada with fake Canadian Health Care cards that it forced the Ontario government to remake the cards with stricter security?

Why do so many Americans go to Mexico and Canada and around the globe every year to access their health care systems rather than utilise th eAmerican system?

Why can't the American government bargain for cheaper prices on pharmaceuticals like Canada and other western industrialised nations?

Why has Health Insurance in the US become so much more expensive over the last ten years as the industry has colluded and consolidated itself into a virtual monopoly?

The left used to argue that dissention was patriotic, nowadays it's racist.

The right used to argue that if you weren't "With Bush" you were "with the terrorists"

They equated dissent with being a traitor.

Nobody on the left is arguing that all of the criticism of Obama that comes from the right is racist in origin.

Saying that would be stupid.

Which is prolly why only morons on the right are saying it.

But to argue that there isn't an racist element to the nonsensical, hysterical, unreasoning right wing opposition to all things Obama would be even stupider.

K?

Be Well.

I am personally responsible enough to maintain my health-care insurance, even at the expense of other non-essentials.

Posted by JeffJerk

What happens when you become disabled or have a heart attack and you can't get coverage anymore. Should we just let you die? I don't care what happens to you but your family might. If they are smart they will say good riddance but your wife did marry you.

PS - Am I a racist for opposing Obama on this?

#244 | Posted by JeffJ at 2009-09-16 08:49 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Nahhhhhh just a greedy fuck that's all.

Larry

Spud,

Obamacare is almost dead.

Deal with it.

#241 | Posted by JeffJ at 2009-09-16 08:41 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

To the detriment of the whole of Americans. Congrats to You and Your greedy Conservatives.

Larry

Assholes like Jeff only care about tax breaks. He doesn't give a shit if everyone has affordable coverage or if everyone can get approved for insurance. Nope all that SOB cares about is a tax break so he can go scuba diving.

Best retort on the DR all week: "Are you heavily invested in straw futures?"

"MISINFORMATION MEDIA AND GLENN BECK'S BOGUS RALLY TALLY" by Taylor Marsh:

They're following their leader, Glenn Beck. The most fact challenged pundit anywhere on any dial, TV, radio or in any other medium. Offering the evidence, which amounts to some college study he can't name or cite, Beck pontificates that he has the truth.

He joins Michelle Malkin, who is another right winger who has a history of either ignoring the facts or simply making them up to fit her world view, like Beck. All because of one tweet. Now you get why I immediately questioned her? ABC immediately knocking down that tweet with one from ABC's Jake Tapper, which the right ignored completely.

Malkin's knee jerk reaction to take anything uttered on the right as fact was clearly in evidence this past weekend, when Ms. Malkin decided that a good turnout had to be turned into a believe it or not whopper fantasy without providing any evidence of her "2 million" crowd number, with other right wingers using an old Promise Keeper's rally shot to bolster the baloney.

Fox News channel allowed Beck to repeat another totally imagined rally tally as well, with no one worried about the actual truth.

I questioned Malkin's "2 million" number, as well as a shot she offered that did end up to be valid, while simultaneously offering a verified photo from Mary Katharine Hamm of the crowd size. With no one able to verify the over-inflated "2 million" number. But it was Malkin who decided to pass a tweet with the number of people off as fact, not satisfied with simply the number ABC actually reported first, 60-70,000, which ballooned into a "2 million" rumor that ricocheted across outer wingnuttery, spreading like like wildfire: NewsBusters, Wizbang, Gay Patriot, Examiner, Right Pundits, and many more.

It must have really been disheartening when Bill O'Reilly put the number at around 75,000 just last night.

Eric Boehlert has more:

According to estimates provided by the Washington, D.C., fire department, Malkin and friends were only off by 1,930,000 people. In other words, Malkin, citing fictitious press accounts, led the charge to falsely inflate the size of the crowd by 30 times. Malkin and company, desperate to dress up the tea party event as a mass movement, saw a relatively modest crowd of 70,000 GOP protesters and imagined it was 2 million strong. (She's a dreamer, I suppose.

Worse, Malkin spent most of Saturday in denial, refusing to update her transparently false report, which meant the rest of the right-wing blogosphere also played dumb on a massive scale and kept excitedly repeating the manufactured claim. The scary part is that within the fact-free conservative blogosphere, lots of people still believe the 2 million nonsense, or are at least repeating it. They believe it despite the fact that nobody can point to any evidence to support it....

Why is the right using the tactics of the left? Like CNN and their bomb photos right

If I were a dumb fucking righty, I would start to wonder why these crazy fucksticks continue to lie.

Oh well, I'll just point and laugh at all the dumb fucking cry babies as they show no regard for America's election process.

We need to beat these fuckers in another civil war to remind them that they lost the last one.

#169 | Posted by Manypaths at 2009-09-15

ah yes you silver tongued devil.

we will remind you of who won and lost after november2,2010.

and please refer to the health care thread below and read about a so called lie that a DEMOCRAT has proven us on the right to be correct about TAX money going to pay for abortion in HR 3200

when can I expect your apology?

To the detriment of the whole of Americans. Congrats to You and Your greedy Conservatives.

Larry

#251 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2009

larry...old buddy

your bias and bigotry and prejudice is showing

the reason we dont have obama care right now is because of DEMOCRATS.......

Jesus pulled the same stuff with that loaves and fishes hoax.It was actually just a sardine sandwich.

...your bias and bigotry and prejudice is showing...

AFKbabble you have got to be fucking kidding right? This from one of the most biased and prejudicial posters on the DR!

the reason we dont have obama care right now is because of DEMOCRATS.......

The reason we don't have Universal Health care is because of the scare tactics of the Riecht and the massive amount of corporate money from the HMO's and Pharmaceuticals that is going into the misinformation and propaganda machine.

AS we all should know by now the Riecht has made it clear that they are not interested in health care reform but they are ONLY interested in making Obama fail.

Steele Calls Obama Health Care Socialism, Agrees This His Waterloo

According to estimates provided by the Washington, D.C., fire department, Malkin and friends were only off by 1,930,000 people.

Correcting the record, because Glenn Beck won't do it and neither will Fox News. Always more comfortable with "news" that comports to their world view, facts seldom having anything to do with it.
www.taylormarsh.com

#255 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

Uh, Doc,

The 60-70K people count is what the Fire Dept "expected", it's not what they counted nor is it what actually showed up. It's just what they put down on the form for what they thought was going to show up.

The National Park Service, historically, have been the ones counting these types of events, but since the Million Man March, they've stopped doing this because they were called racists for saying that half a million showed up to the million man march.

So, you keep quoting the 60-70K like it's official or something. It's not. There is no official number. You officially have egg on your face. (LOL)

Like I say, you are fools because the real numbers are coming out soon.

It took a while for the Obama inauguration numbers to come out and when it did, they estimated 800K or so and that is the widely accepted number.

Now the crowds for 9/12 and the inauguration are similar if not larger, so let's see what happens.

Jeff? Spud answered your questions - why don't you answer his?

larry...old buddy

your bias and bigotry and prejudice is showing

the reason we dont have obama care right now is because of DEMOCRATS.......

#258 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2009-09-16 11:39 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
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You mean the Conservatives of both parties that fucking sold their worthless souls to satan for monitary greed(Taking huge sums of money from insurance industry lobby)??? Fucking bastards don't think about ALL of their constituents. The only ones they think about are the ones with the most money. Worthless scum if You ask Me.

Larry

here's a REAL photo of the crowd:

"eerily similar i'd have to say"

WTF? They're taken from different vantage points.

Eerily disingenuous, i'd have to say.

Eerily disingenuous, i'd have to say.

#266 | Posted by Danforth

You keep using that word. I don't think means what you think it means.

Look again and notice the trees. Trees are sometimes a dead give away of the season.

danforth - how many people do you surmise were there?

"I don't think means what you think it means. "

I think I do. lacking in candor; also : giving a false appearance of simple frankness (MW)

"Look again and notice the trees. "

Exactly. The one immediately left of center is in the FRONT from 9/12, and AT A DISTANCE at the inauguration. They pushed the staging area back.

65K tops. I wish the dogs and tear gas would have been used on them. Teach those evil rednecks a lesson. Next gathering I think Anti-TPP should use BB guns on them as a practical joke.

oh rasta - some friends of mine who were there said the law enforcement was on their side and they couldn't have been nicer. there were no incidents where dogs and tear gas should have been used and you know it. you also realize that when the fit hits the shan, law enforcement will be on the correct side, don't you?

Exactly. The one immediately left of center is in the FRONT from 9/12, and AT A DISTANCE at the inauguration. They pushed the staging area back.

#269 | Posted by Danforth

Do you have anything else? Because what you said is nothing.

The sun is setting on the 60-70K argument.

Eddie,
You know what time it is, bitch? STFU time.

I was there. I know - and so does Washington. The desparation shown by government supporters trying to minimize the numbers proves we are making a difference.

#245 | Posted by agavek at 2009-09-16 08:51 AM | Reply | Flag:

Sorry, but 75K is hardly 2 million.

Nice try, but time to sit down and remain irrelevant.

you also realize that when the fit hits the shan, law enforcement will be on the correct side, don't you?

#271 | Posted by nanc

Nanc,

Jackass so wants the 9/12ers to be brought down to the level of the anti-war protesters.

notgunnahappen

You see Jackass, The 9/12ers represent the working people and the small business owners of America. You know the backbone of this country. You know, the people holding up the country while kids like you are fucking around in school or are "between jobs"... Shit like that.

The obey the law and love America because that's who we are!

danforth - how many people do you surmise were there?

#268 | Posted by nanc at 2009-09-16 04:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well, all we really have to go by is the word of Pete Piringer, public affairs officer for the D.C. Fire and Emergency Department, who said the local government no longer provides official crowd estimates because they can become politicized. YA THINK!?!?!?!?

But the day of the rally, Piringer unofficially told one reporter that he thought between 60,000 and 75,000 people had shown up.

Sorry kiddies....you're 2 million guess is as pathetic as your tea-bagging fest.

#273 | Posted by 101Chairborne

Chair,

How many people showed up to the 9/12 event?

LOL, can't wait for this.

The 9/12ers represent the insane working people and the small business owners of America. You know the backbone of this country.

Fixed that for you.

Protesting a pointless war that has cost tens of thousands of lives and trillions of dollars is far more patriotic an act than whining about the conspiracy theories invented by rightwing radicals.

But the day of the rally, Piringer unofficially told one reporter that he thought between 60,000 and 75,000 people had shown up.

Sorry kiddies....you're 2 million guess is as pathetic as your tea-bagging fest.

#276 | Posted by COMMONSENSE

No, LOL!!

He said that he "expected" 60-70K to show up.

Keep on teabagging... America always needs the whining of irrational pissants to keep it distracted from pertinent issues.

I thought I told you to STFU, woman!

Sorry kiddies....you're 2 million guess is as pathetic as your tea-bagging fest.

#276 | Posted by COMMONSENSE

The Democrats expected 2 million!

This is from a House Dem Leadership Memo On 9/12 Rally:

"Now, based off of news reports and comments from leaders in the Tea Party movement, it looks like Saturday's event is going to be a huge gathering, estimates ranging from hundreds of thousands to 2 million people. Below is what I have been able to find on crowd estimates. As I learn more, I will let you know.

Best,
Doug
"

I thought I told you to STFU, woman!

#281 | Posted by 101Chairborne

HOW MANY!??!

You incredible idiot!

LOL.

I can't wait for this answer (what a jackass)

Keep on teabagging... America always needs the whining of irrational pissants to keep it distracted from pertinent issues.

#280 | Posted by ZombieHunter

Like what issues?

LOL!!!

Again, I can't wait for this answer.

What? Are the kids getting home from school?

Protesting a pointless war that has cost tens of thousands of lives and trillions of dollars is far more patriotic an act than whining about the conspiracy theories invented by rightwing radicals.

#278 | Posted by ZombieHunter

Shhhhhh, the adults are talking now.

Its so funny to see the same 4 or 5 Koolaid drinking sheep on this site. I for one believe that it is not possible that they have all received they're Obatomies, and that in fact they are one person. How can u find more then one brain dead idiot who lacks the ability to use common sense. You quote left wing (non) media, with your numbers, when anyone can look at these pictures and tell that there is a HELL-OF-ALOT more then 70 thousand people.. Keep dismissing us sheeple and watch as you become irrelevant LOL.

Shhhhhh, the adults are talking now.

#285 | Posted by Eddie

Where is that link exactly... I'd like to go join them. They obviously aren't here.

Well, if 60,000 is wrong, somebody should inform the grand wizard Glenn Beck. He himself said 60,000 Saturday afternoon on fox. It was his party - if he says 60,000 then it's 60,000.

Like someone said, the proof will be the next election. Inflate the numbers all you want.. Just going to look even more stupid next November when those 2.5 million fail to materialize at the polls.
If it make you crazies feel better to inflate the numbers - go ahead. You're just settting yourself up for a big let down next year.

Well, if 60,000 is wrong, somebody should inform the grand wizard Glenn Beck. He himself said 60,000 Saturday afternoon on fox. It was his party - if he says 60,000 then it's 60,000.

Like someone said, the proof will be the next election. Inflate the numbers all you want.. Just going to look even more stupid next November when those 2.5 million fail to materialize at the polls.
If it make you crazies feel better to inflate the numbers - go ahead. You're just settting yourself up for a big let down next year.

YOU LIE!

"Its so funny to see the same 4 or 5 Koolaid drinking sheep on this site. I for one believe that it is not possible that they have all received they're Obatomies, and that in fact they are one person. How can u find more then one brain dead idiot who lacks the ability to use common sense. You quote left wing (non) media, with your numbers, when anyone can look at these pictures and tell that there is a HELL-OF-ALOT more then 70 thousand people.. Keep dismissing us sheeple and watch as you become irrelevant LOL." -AZWAR

Damn Fucking Straight. Very well said AZWAR.
I was at the Protest and there most definitely were more than 70,000 people there (you can see the back of my head in the picture in the editorials of the Wash. Post on 9/16/09).

What's so funny about this whole thing is that the left is going nuts trying to down play this whole thing. Looked how worked up some of the libs are just on DR. This is not a left/right thing. This is about The American People's government not working for the people anymore. You think this Protest was big (or small if your a retard), just wait until the next one. This might be the time that a 3rd party could finally sweep into government, because the two we have really fucking suck.

It's not that the right is drawing people over to it's side that any sane person is jumping off the good ship democrat. The left is driving people away because some of the things the dems are putting is just fucking nuts, I mean truly crazy. So if you aren't watching cnn call you a racist for going to the protest your probably going to watch fox. And I am an ex liberal.

We are all strangers in a strange land now...

Also the next Protest should be on the 4th of July. We can totally pad our numbers and claim we shot off the fireworks. "America rules, fuck yeah".

Its so funny to see the same 4 or 5 Koolaid drinking sheep on this site. I for one believe that it is not possible that they have all received they're Obatomies, and that in fact they are one person. How can u find more then one brain dead idiot who lacks the ability to use common sense. You quote left wing (non) media, with your numbers, when anyone can look at these pictures and tell that there is a HELL-OF-ALOT more then 70 thousand people.. Keep dismissing us sheeple and watch as you become irrelevant LOL.

#286 | POSTED BY AZWAR AT 2009-09-16 07:11 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

You know why you get dismissed? Because your side has a history of lying. Lying about "death panels" and "Kenya" and "Marxist" and the use of signs we all saw at this protest. You want to know why else you're dismissed? "You quote left wing (non) media" is a GREAT example. ABC isn't "left wing (non) media" nor is the D.C. Fire Department "left wing." You're dismissed because you quote morons like Kibbe and Malkin for the numbers.

As to more than 70,000, Nanc's picture is indicative of the crap you guys post as "proof." Even the caption isn't clear enough for you. The fact that one is pointing towards the Washington Monumnent and the other offered as comparison is completely different is another give-away.

Lying about "death panels"

Actually, the 'death panels' is a pretty frank characterization of what Obamacare would be like.

and "Kenya"

The birthers are a lunatic fringe. They are no more mainstream than the 9-11 truthers. If you are going to hang the birthers around the necks of conservatives, then you own the truthers. You can't have it both ways,

and "Marxist"

Given Obama's past, his associations, his advocacies, etc. the Marxist claim isn't too far off.

and the use of signs we all saw at this protest.

Every protest is going to have a few crazies - the Tea party protests have them as have every anti-war protest that ever occurred. The difference is the coverage. The MSM loves anti-war protests and goes out of their way to portray them in the best possible light. But, protest against the expansion of central government, and they'll find that crazy guy and try and portray that guy as indicative of the overall protest. And, if that doesn't work, they'll just call ALL opposition to Obama as a product of racism.

and that would be a great first step towards real discussion about real issues.

When the left gets serious about real discussion, outside of a handful of honest lefty bloggers (you are part of this small group), please let me know.

In the meantime I will sit back and wallow in charges of racism for having the audacity to be opposed to Obamacare, capntax, etc.

Jeff: Actually, the 'death panels' is a pretty frank characterization of what is currently going on

FTFY.

Be Well.

66% of "full on crazy" isn't anything to be bragging about, Jeff.

Given Obama's past, his associations, his advocacies, etc. the Marxist claim isn't too far off

Sorry Dude but that's so far off the mark it's not even in the right galaxy.

Obama is corporate whore.

All politicians are corporate whores.

The entire system has evolved to the point where someone who doesn't service the corproate agendaa can't get elected.

The Bailout was socialism?

Keeping the auto industry afloat for another couple of years is Marxism?

They are both, right and left, servicing a corporate agenda that is not neccessarily in the best long term interests on the nation or it's citizenry.

America's only hope at this point is that Obama is less of a whore than his predeccesors and smart enuff to make the changes that can be made in order to improve things.

Be Well.

/K done fer now, exiting the DRagon as ya do
stage left.

FTFY

No, you didn't.

The 'death panel' comment is far more accurate in terms of degree with ANY socialized medical system than what we currently have in the US.

66% of "full on crazy" isn't anything to be bragging about, Jeff.

#296 | Posted by YAV

Where did you get the 66% number?

Where did you get the 66% number?

I averaged legitimate points you raised and the insane ones, divided them, then multiplied by 100. :)

#299 | Posted by YAV

I had to give you funny flag for that one; even if it was at my own expense.

Obama would probably catapault his approval numbers if he took a strong, post-racial stance to all of this bullshit race-baiting.

However, I suspect he not only supports this shit, but he believes it. I seriously hope he steps up and proves me wrong, but he has yet to do anything to suggest that he will.

Unrelated - Was it just me, or did he seem uncomfortable, at the end of his big speech last week, saying "God bless us and God bless America."? It seemed forced, terse and uncomfortable - like he felt as if he was cursing. Now, before some of you go apeshit, I don't pretend to know what's in the man's heart. I am just sharing my observation.

Jeff:

When people suspect someone of being other than what they are, it's easy to read into things that aren't there as they look for something in that person's behavior to back up their beliefs.