McIntosh has also cut back on a handful of other critical childhood vaccines for the same reason -- including the measles, mumps and rubella, known as the MMR vaccine.

WOOHOO I always thought some measles and rubella would set this country straight.

Nothing like an outbreak of encephalitis to brighten your week!

Speaking as a pharmacist, this is old news.

We frequently have to sell prescriptions at a loss due to poor insurance reimbursements.

We frequently have to sell prescriptions at a loss due to poor insurance reimbursements.

how do you feel about the public option?

You know I still wonder how much it actually costs and how much mark up they do.

Most vaccinations shouldn't be covered by insurance anyway. Vaccines are usually a maintenence issue, sort of like buying tires for a car.

Most vaccinations shouldn't be covered by insurance anyway. Vaccines are usually a maintenence issue, sort of like buying tires for a car.

murderer!!

-the left

Nothing like an outbreak of encephalitis to brighten your week!

SSPE? It might take a few cases of that to remind people why the vaccine is so important in the first place.

Viruses in the CNS are just scary.

Most of them, at least. The JC virus is just alright with me.

You know I still wonder how much it actually costs and how much mark up they do.

#4 | Posted by LarryMohr

No matter how much you try to convince yourself that people who are involved in medicine (including the pharmaceutical and medical insurance industries) are doing what they do for purely benevolent reasons it's still a business. If the government tries to change that you can kiss quality healthcare for the masses goodbye.

Disclaimer: not a fan of the greed in the medical community just stating the obvious.

Gimme it just goes to show Me that they aren't really in the healthcare business for the right reasons. Sighhhhhhh

Larry

Disclaimer: not a fan of the greed in the medical community just stating the obvious.

Do you expect doctors to work for free? What do you think would happen to the medical infrastructure of this country if after 4 years of undergrad plus 4 years of med school plus 2-3 years residency plus 2-3 years fellowship you got paid jack shit? Doctors are some of the most educated individuals in society and yet what they make pales in comparison to those douchebag MBAs who drink for a few more years and rake in millions.

Do you expect doctors to work for free?

Did I say that? Did I? As for those "douchebag MBAs" not a fan but if it bothers you so much you made the wrong career choice eh?

Not to belittle you jpw cause I like your posts and appreciate your chosen field's work but it's a market world baby. Sucks but it is and it works good enough I'd hate to tinker with it especially via the government.

JPW

I've read your medical studies background (wasn't too hard to know you were in the medical field!) you wrote in one of your posts and see you're in your 5th year of working on immune drugs (or something similar)?

I just want to ask you a question. My cousin who lives back East just turned around 40 yo last summer was recently diagnosed with MS. She is treating it on her own as long as she can by making dietary changes (cutting out wheat, glutten, etc.) before it's necessary to have to use regular medicine. What I would like to know is if there is anything on the near horizon in the way of a cure that you may have heard of but hasn't been told to the public yet? I'd like to give her some positive news if I can. Thanks

Gimme it just goes to show Me that they aren't really in the healthcare business for the right reasons. Sighhhhhhh

#10 | Posted by LarryMohr

If it helps any Larry I believe that the majority get into the various health fields for the right reasons but end up "going with the flow". Kinda like politicians and lawyers.

see you're in your 5th year of working on immune drugs (or something similar)?

I'm a virologist (study viruses) who does basic research.

What I would like to know is if there is anything on the near horizon in the way of a cure that you may have heard of but hasn't been told to the public yet? I'd like to give her some positive news if I can. Thanks

Unfortunately, I can't give you any information on MS given that as far as I know it is not viral in origin and I'm not in that field.

Did I say that? Did I? As for those "douchebag MBAs" not a fan but if it bothers you so much you made the wrong career choice eh?

No, you didn't.

I guess I see phrases like "greed in the medical community" and it strikes a particularly biased nerve. Obtaining an MD is no easy or cheap task and it bugs the shit out of me when people hold it against doctors who want to make a living (or at least pay off their debt).

Now, that's not to say big pharm isn't greedy. They're corporations. Therefore, profit margin and bottom line are their primary concerns. I don't like it, but that's the way it is.

And no, I didn't make the wrong career choice. They make more money, but I wouldn't change what I do for the world.

Not to belittle you jpw cause I like your posts and appreciate your chosen field's work but it's a market world baby. Sucks but it is and it works good enough I'd hate to tinker with it especially via the government.

I agree.

Doesn't mean I'm not bitter though :)

Well, thanks anyway, JPW. If you ever hear of anything though....

And good luck with your studies. Someday you'll be famous for curing a now "incurable" disease and we can all say "Hey, did you know we all knew JPW when he blogged with us on DR!" : )

Well, thanks anyway, JPW. If you ever hear of anything though....

Absolutely. If I come across something I'll definitely send it your way.

And good luck with your studies.

Thank you.

Someday you'll be famous for curing a now "incurable" disease and we can all say "Hey, did you know we all knew JPW when he blogged with us on DR!" : )

If I'm lucky :)

Sounds like our health care system needs an enema, based on the comments being made in this thread.

"it's just the way it is" seems to be the only defense anyone has why the Hippocratic Oath is now the Hypocritic Oath.

Some health care providers are no longer offering vaccines because insurers don't reimburse them enough for them. "I am losing money on [them]," said Ohio physician G. Andrew McIntosh. "The chicken pox vaccine runs about $115, but insurers only cover between $68 to $83 of that."

Posted by electricjungle
* * * *

Sounds like you should charge $200 for it then. Duh.

By the way, every kid in my generation got the chicken pox. A couple of days of scratching and itching--so what? Now we expect the insurance plans to cover even that?

If the government tries to change that you can kiss quality healthcare for the masses goodbye.

Canadians get the exact same brand name meds for lower prices (which is why bus loads of Americans cross the border to load up). How? well, as the largest purchaser of rugs (as medicare would be) provincial and federal governments are allowed to negotiate the price, something the righites in America oppose. I guess the free market doesn't apply to big pharma.

Most vaccinations shouldn't be covered by insurance anyway.

Preventative medicine is actually the cheapest way to go.

bbbbbut I thought vaccines were all about the public health? Common good and all that? Ohh....only if you can afford them. Got it.

Call your county health department, dumbshits. You can get you vaccinations at cost.

Oops! But you do have to pay the cost of the vaccine! We know Liberals think everything should be 'free.'

"If the government tries to change that you can kiss quality healthcare for the masses goodbye."

That flies in the face of the quality of health care provided by every other industrialized nation. It is simply not true.

......my cousin tells me that flu shots are free for everyone in Canada, and they actually make enough to give everyone who wants it a shot....

.....they can either go their local doctor, or go to local school gymnasiums in the fall, and people just show up, show their health cards, and get a free shot.......

.....I guess that's one of the reasons they have longer life spans than we do....rotten socialists.....

Most vaccinations shouldn't be covered by insurance anyway.

Preventative medicine is actually the cheapest way to go.

So it would be in the insurance companies' interest to cover vaccines and avoid larger expenses later.

Canadians get the exact same brand name meds for lower prices (which is why bus loads of Americans cross the border to load up). How? well, as the largest purchaser of rugs (as medicare would be) provincial and federal governments are allowed to negotiate the price, something the righites in America oppose. I guess the free market doesn't apply to big pharma.
.......#21 | Posted by northguy3

......they get drugs cheaper, because the drug companies are RIPPING OFF AMERICANS.......

.......the drug companies have bribed our politicians, and the politicians work to protect the drug company profits.......all that bullshit about "American companies do the research, Americans pay for the research, and other countries don't" is pure pharmaceutical bullshit....

.....they would not sell drugs at a loss ANYWHERE...so when you see a drug being sold at a lower price in other countries, the drug companies still make a profit, just not as much.....but here...our politicians make laws allowing us to be raped by the pharma companies........

"Oops! But you do have to pay the cost of the vaccine! We know Liberals think everything should be 'free.'

No one thinks anything is free but there is more than one way to pay for things. When talking about vacines it probably is best to let even those without money have them for free to prevent an epidemic. Wouldn't even you agree Vernon or do you think with contagious diseases the "free market" is still king???

Wouldn't even you agree Vernon or do you think with contagious diseases the "free market" is still king???

#30 | Posted by danni at 2009-09-09 10:51 AM | Reply | Flag:

Danni,

As I said, contact your county health department. I am certain that all necessary vaccines are given at cost -- and if you plead poverty it will be free.

Your Liberal Utopian Wet Dream exists already. It's just the American version, not the Swedish/ Canuck version.

...but here...our politicians make laws allowing us to be raped by the pharma companies........

#29 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-09-09 10:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

Vaccines are not profitable ... mainly because your beloved Leftist government have made it so.

Most companies have gone out of the vaccine business because Liberal governments have made it impossible to cover costs -- let alone make a profit.

Even you must be capable of some logic. A flu shot that costs $15 saves you for 12 days of work.

How much money do you earn in 12 days?

Is the $15 shot better than losing 12 days of wages?

Greedy pharma! Oh My!

"Vaccines are not profitable"

Looks like Vernon is using his calculator again:

Proving once again that Vernon and facts are like water and oil.

A flu shot that costs $15 saves you for 12 days of work.

What kind of p*ssy are you that the flu keeps you out of work 12 days?

"What kind of p*ssy are you that the flu keeps you out of work 12 days?"

Back around 1990 I got a flu that kept me and a couple of others where I worked out for a solid two weeks of absolute misery. I lost ten pounds and I was pretty skinny back then. I've never been that sick before or since. Flu is nothing to underestimate.

Vernon I don't mind paying but I don't want those who can't afford to pay to go unvaccinated...for their sakes but also for the sake of everyone else.

Once again, Vernon is shown to be talking straight out of his asshole.

Most vaccinations shouldn't be covered by insurance anyway.

Preventative medicine is actually the cheapest way to go.

LOL vaccines ARE preventative medicine.

bbbbbut I thought vaccines were all about the public health? Common good and all that? Ohh....only if you can afford them. Got it.

Nice job, you understood the point of the article. Here's your gold star...

What kind of p*ssy are you that the flu keeps you out of work 12 days?

That sounds about right for an actual influenza infection.

Be careful of using the word "flu" colloquially, which has come to mean any illness with achiness, fever vomiting ect.

A few years back I had to go overseas for work in Asia, this required me to get vaccines for diseases not prevalent here but exist there. I dont remember which vaccine it was but my doctor's office offered the vaccine for $120, the County offered the vaccine for $60.

I'm not picking a side just offering a little evidence.

I was also offered a form for public assistance to help defray the cost of the vaccines. I didn't fill out the form since I could afford it so I don't know if the assistance was commensurate with actual need.

I think part of the problem is many don't realize these options even exist.

Here's a newsflash: Insurance doesn't fully cover *anything*. If you get really sick or badly injured and you are treated in the U.S., you're going to incur severe financial costs. You're going to be tempted to forgo, or take less treatment than you require in order to shoulder the burden. Healthy people make up 3% of spending on medical care in the U.S. For the other 97% of spending, we have insurance companies actively seeking ways not to cover the *portion* they have already agreed to pay for. I say "Fuck 'em". A gov't run, single payer system is preferable. The government, unlike insurance companies, is accountable and beholden to the people. Stop marching off to the polls and (in dead-eyed, empty-headed fashion) voting for the two dumbass parties that are running this country into the ground and the gov't will be even more accountable.

Chris,

You want to know about MS and you ask JPW not me?

Who has had MS the whole time he has been on drudge ... you guesed it me.

There are a lot of things on the horizon. I am in a clin-trial for finglomod which is an imunmodulating drug that you take once daily rather than an injectable. It is about 50% more effective at preventing relapses than current drugs (bassed on phase II trials) I am in phase three trials. Additionaly I have read that they are working on a way to stimulate the regrowth of myelin that would be a major step as it would allow actual healing not just stopping progression. So with future treatments they may be able to halt (or almost halt) relapses and repair existing damage. Not quite a cure but better than a kick in the nuts too.

Also most of the diet modification is crap trust me on this one I have tried almost all of it.

If your cousin needs any more info let me know. I will be glad to offer any advice or support she might need. I have been dealing with this for over 5 years now, and while not an old hand like some who have been dealing with it 10-20 years. I am still ambulatory and for the most part if I didn't tell you there would be no way to know. Also I would recomend she get on a B Complex and Vit. D asap. those too seem to have the most benifit for folks with MS.

We all pay into a big system that could cover everyone and save folks from financial ruin when their health takes a dive. But the system doesn't do those things. For me, 'Socialism' isn't a compelling enough of a reason for our system not to do the things it should be doing, morally and pragmatically.

Given the "Globalization" of the world economy can one buy into the health care of a another country like Canada, or England or Mexico etc.?

And can Health Care workers (Doctors, Nurses etc.) here work for them so that an American citizen can sign up for that heath care? After all American citizens are already currently going out of country for health care and to purchase medications at a far less cost.

And it would be nice to put ones money into a system that does not enable the enrichment or empowerment of management or stocks and at the least has Administrative cost minimized.

I.e. a system where cost are applied to actual Doctors doctoring and Nurses enabled to act as nurses who are actually in Health Care for Health Care. Because they care about people, not some bottom line.

Yes, that's a good idea. Go right around these for profit denial of services 'death paneled' companies.

so you have to shell out $50 to cover? OMG, the world is ending. They'll have to skip the hit on the crack pipe or the extra bottle of Wild Turkey. Heaven fucking forbid.

Once again, Vernon is shown to be talking straight out of his asshole.

Vermin moved to Thailand to have a cadaver's vocal cords implanted into his rectal cavity. Oh, and there's that other reason...

"If the government tries to change that you can kiss quality healthcare for the masses goodbye."

That flies in the face of the quality of health care provided by every other industrialized nation. It is simply not true.

It's my understanding that those countries have a fraction of the population and then tax the ever fucking hell out of their population for the privilege.

What happens when at least 40 million "new" people, people who've probably rarely if ever have gone to see a doctor, suddenly show up?

Only so much more can be borrowed before the foreign countries we borrow from decide to tell us to go pound sand, then what? Honestly that's stupid math anyway. My mother used to call it "robbing Peter to pay Paul" Then what?

Tax the fuck out of us and have most of the money wasted like it's being now?

Fuck that, it's getting old.

"What happens when at least 40 million "new" people, people who've probably rarely if ever have gone to see a doctor, suddenly show up?"

They probably get treated for problems earlier, instead of having to go to the ER later, or having mild conditions turn very expensive.

"Only so much more can be borrowed before the foreign countries we borrow from decide to tell us to go pound sand"

Then it's pretty important to try to find a way to spend a lower % of our GDP on health, like other countries do, and get better overall health outcomes, like other countries do, while covering more of the populace, like other countries do.

Also, then what happens when the rest of us with employer provided health care suddenly have their employers (especially the smaller ones) send a memo saying

"As of (insert date here) due to the availability of Govornmental Healthcare, we no longer consider it cost effective to provide group coverage to our employees".

It's a no brainer for them to do so, so you know it will happen.

Loh

"what happens when the rest of us with employer provided health care suddenly have their employers (especially the smaller ones) send a memo saying "As of (insert date here) due to the availability of Govornmental Healthcare, we no longer consider it cost effective to provide group coverage to our employees""

Probably the same thing as when the employer sends a memo saying "As of (insert date here), due to the runaway medical inflation which has outpaced actual inflation and wages for too long, we no longer can afford to provide any coverage to our employees"

Lohocla-
You don't know what the fuck you are talking about. It's a public option that utilizes private insurers, but has a nationwide pool of clients. There is no "Govornmental Healthcare" even on the table, you stupid motherfucker.

Where the fuck do you get your information?

Dan,

Love that....do you realize what you just said?

In my world we call that peeling an onion. Try to fix one problem uncover another and another and another. Then you have something so convoluted that it collapses under its own fucking weight and works halfassed, if at all.

We've outsourced all our production, 80% of the youth are retarded imbiciles who, thanks to velcro and digital chronometers can't tie their own fucking shoes or tell time from an analog clock.

Then to say, if we do that, that will pay for this we're already doing and spending money on?

Easy to say "we have to do this" w/out any resources or plan to do so, so everyone jumps on that "only if" pipedream and still keeps trying to build something with out a plan or a fucking foundation.

That's just fucking stupid.

"It's my understanding that those countries have a fraction of the population and then tax the ever fucking hell out of their population for the privilege." -Lohocla

"everyone jumps on that "only if" pipedream "

Just to see how tethered you are to reality...what do you think will happen in, say, a decade, if we continue on the path we're on?

haha, you think we have a decade? Thats cute.;P

"haha, you think we have a decade?"

No, I don't.

So what's your answer?

10 years will see pretty much the same shit as the last 30, talking heads will say what they need to say to get into office then do what the corporations and lobbyists tell them to do

They'll cry that they inherited the problem from the last pres, then complain that the other side of the aisle is blocking whatever they're trying to do while spending as much money as possible for as long as we can borrow it from some other country, which they'll use to pay off the "I'll scratch you're back and you better make damn sure you scratch mine" markers they took out to win support.

Then in 4 or 8 years, some other talking head will be elected, and the whole process starts over again.

The outgoing pres will do the talk circuit, collect their base pay till they die, build a library, and go on with the rest of their lives.

Just as you and I hopefully will do, sans talk circuit, base pay, and library of course.

It's a generalization obviously, but considering pretty much the same platform topics have been bandied about during elections since the 70's, and since the results have all been the same, i.e., none whatsoever, I think it's a pretty accurate one.

You may not think that, and you probably think I'm a fool or whatever for my opinion, but I'm adult enough to be fine with that.

I don't try to convince anyone that I'm right or that they're wrong, I just say how I feel and go on with my life.

There's no other way to live, for me anyway. :)

Loh

#58

Translation: We're going to be fucked anyway, might as well take it with a smile.

haha in 14 words, pretty much :)

Loh

Loh,

Yea...you're right.

That's some pretty serious generalizations.

I don't think I'd call you a fool.

But I will say I'm glad you're wrong.

Bill,

Happy for ya >:)

Loh