A large group of about 70 to 80 villagers, rounded up by the 1st Platoon in the center of the village, were killed personally by Calley and by soldiers ordered to fire by Calley. Calley also shot two other large groups of civilians with a weapon taken from a soldier who had refused to do any further killing.

All I can say is that his apology should never be accepted and I don't know how this guy sleeps at night.

All I can say is that his apology should never be accepted

When ever I talk to my dad or brother about atrocities like these(all through history)they say "well that's the way it was done.

I don't know how this guy sleeps at night

They don't

I saw Lt Calley once at a BBQ place in Columbus GA. My dad pointed him out to me.

Sounds like he did his time.

a conviction of 22 counts of murder generally doesnt allow the criminal to go out on the rotary speaking circut. No he didnt do his time. He is a shameful example of a product of the USA

Conduct unbecoming of an officer.

A disgrace; how did 6-year-old girls qualify for the Vietcong?

As damaging to America at the time as Jane Fonda and Walter Cronkite

He is a shameful example of a product of the USA
.......#5 | Posted by Georgeisadrunk

......how about the rest of the one and a half million Viet Namese who were killed because LBJ made up the fake Gulf of Tonkin Incident ?.....

......Viet Nam.....like Iraq.....was a war that we had no business prosecuting.....it wasn't our fight....and in the end we killed more than a million people and got nothing to show for it except a diminished democracy.....

As damaging to America at the time as Jane Fonda and Walter Cronkite

Damaging to the part of America hellbent on waging a waste of a war... by the way, Fonda and Cronkite never murdered anyone.

This story was posted earlier here....

As damaging to America at the time as Jane Fonda and Walter Cronkite
......#6 | Posted by vernon

......Jane Fonda was among many who understood that the Viet Nam war was immoral....(all he pro-lifers will differ with me on this, they think that killing a million and a half people for being communists is a good idea, oh the irony of the irony-deprived !)...and her notariety made her actions a headline at the time.....

....but Walter Cronkite spoke the truth to America.....

....sorry.......didn't see the earlier post......

interesting that someone would apply the same standard to an individual and a country that bills itself as the font of freedom and democracy as well as "justice for all"

...but Walter Cronkite spoke the truth to America.....

#9 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-08-22 10:40 AM | Reply | Flag:

The Tet Offensive was a dramatic defeat for the communists. The VC were virtually destroyed and the NVA was in major retreat.

It was at this point of American victory that Cronkite pronounced the war 'unwinnable.'

The most trusted man in America became a political hack, giving aid and comfort to the enemy -- at the moment of American triumph.

That is the 'truth' you cling to

by the way, Fonda and Cronkite never murdered anyone.

#8 | Posted by ZombieHunter at 2009-08-22 10:35 AM | Reply | Flag:

Not directly, perhaps.

But they gave America's enemies plenty of encouragement to kill Americans -- plus Vietnamese who might agree with them

But those are all brown people, and to a true Liberal, brown people are only tools for debate

brown people are only tools for debate
#14 | Posted by vernon

"The Code de Vermin"

"The Tet Offensive was a dramatic defeat for the communists. The VC were virtually destroyed and the NVA was in major retreat."

Yeah, and the Iraq war was only going to take..."at most six months." The truth about Vietnam was the they would never have surrendered, it would still be going on today if we had stayed there. Much like Afghanistan will be for today's leaders to finally have to come to grips with.

"But they gave America's enemies plenty of encouragement to kill Americans -- plus Vietnamese who might agree with them"

99% of those "brown people" had no idea what Cronkite said or even who he was, much less Jane Fonda. Those Vietnamese needed no encouragement to fight for their own country and to expel the American invaders, any more than did the Afghans who finally expelled the Russians and who will eventually expel the Americans. Cronkite only pointed out the futility of fighting to control a country which the natives did now want controlled by foreigners. He probably saved thousands of American lives by convincing Americans that the war was futile and that we needed to leave. We lost 58,000, how many more would have been enough for you Vernon????

#13 | Posted by vernon | Flag: Flunked History 101

the vietnam war was a terrible defeat for the united states. maniacal politicians cant win wars

by the way, where the hell are those WMD. Brownie?

by the way, where the hell are those WMD. Brownie?

#20 | Posted by Georgeisadrunk

"Don't Call Me Brownie ~ Whitey!"

Just getting the Tet Offensive thing squared away: it was a military (tactical) debacle for the VC, and military (tactical) debacle for the NVA (though less so than for the VC); it was a military (tactical) victory for the US and whoever among the ARVN it could get to actually fight; and, that said, it was a longterm (strategic) victory for the VC and especially the NVA an da longterm (strategic) disaster for the US and the ARVN because it blew away the carefully created and manipulated smokescreen of official predications about (a) how the war was going, (b) the capabilities of the enemy, and, in general, the unsustainable lie that the war was being "won."

As for Calley, My Lai occurred 41 years ago, so I guess he's had more time to ruminate about it than his victims ever did.

Of course the actual culprits who ORDERED this massacre of this second lieutenant, never spent a day in the shadow of what they did.

Calley's plight as scapegoat is what created the Winter Soldier testimonies by over 100 Vietnam vets, attempting to show support for Calley by pointing out that these atrocities were in large part DIRECTED from above.....

Sound familiar? Now we KNOW that Abu abuses were also DIRECTED and the peons forced to carry it out were the only ones held accountable.....

Seem right to you folks?

"Gee fellas .... I sure am sorry about all that killing your kids, burning your houses, and slaughtering your livestock stuff .... So, this means, we're cool, right???"

The VC were virtually destroyed and the NVA was in major retreat.

According to the Pentagon every VC and NVA had been killed or captured by the end of Tet. Some several times over. According to their own figures.

But if America won every battle in VN, as the righties claim, and was on the verge of winning the war in 1968, why did Nixon surrender in 1973?

..The Army denied and then downplayed the event, saying most of the dead were Vietcong.
Posted by reinheitsgebot

And now it's Taliban or Al-Qaeda. Same shit, same hole, new people.

Shame and remorse are human attributes, no military person should recognize those qualities without fear.

What happened was wrong, but the 25th spent most of their time getting picked off by snipers, harrassing fire, and booby traps. Whoever the commander of the Vietnamese forces fighting against the 25th Infantry was Sun Tzu all the way.

By the time they reached My Lai they had all seen a shitoad of their buddies to an enemy they could fight back against and they were frustrated and PISSED!

The 25th Infantry was one of the hardest hit units during the war.

#6 | POSTED BY VERNON
"As damaging to America at the time as Jane Fonda and Walter Cronkite"

AS damaging??!?! Are you kidding?

My Lai was immeasurably worse for America than 50 Fondas and Cronkites combined.

"We have been too often disappointed by the optimism of the American leaders, both in Vietnam and Washington, to have faith any longer in the silver linings they find in the darkest clouds. They may be right, that Hanoi's winter-spring offensive has been forced by the Communist realization that they could not win the longer war of attrition, and that the Communists hope that any success in the offensive will improve their position for eventual negotiations. It would improve their position, and it would also require our realization, that we should have had all along, that any negotiations must be that -- negotiations, not the dictation of peace terms.

"For it seems now more certain than ever that the bloody experience of Vietnam is to end in a stalemate. This summer's almost certain standoff will either end in real give-and-take negotiations or terrible escalation; and for every means we have to escalate, the enemy can match us, and that applies to invasion of the North, the use of nuclear weapons, or the mere commitment of one hundred, or two hundred, or three hundred thousand more American troops to the battle. And with each escalation, the world comes closer to the brink of cosmic disaster.

"To say that we are closer to victory today is to believe, in the face of the evidence, the optimists who have been wrong in the past. To suggest we are on the edge of defeat is to yield to unreasonable pessimism. To say that we are mired in stalemate seems the only realistic, yet unsatisfactory, conclusion. On the off chance that military and political analysts are right, in the next few months we must test the enemy's intentions, in case this is indeed his last big gasp before negotiations. But it is increasingly clear to this reporter that the only rational way out then will be to negotiate, not as victors, but as an honorable people who lived up to their pledge to defend democracy, and did the best they could."

-Walter Cronkite, February 27, 1968

This was 2 weeks after the deadliest week for American casualties at that time.
Four days after a draft of 48,000 men was instituted.

And McNamara resigned on the day after.

Somehow I don't think Cronkite is deserving of your blame.

A disgrace; how did 6-year-old girls qualify for the Vietcong?

#6 | Posted by vernon

I guess you wern't there. Childern that young would come up and dump a gernade in your lap.

You should not speak about what you know nothing of.

You defend that shit? you have lost your humanity. go find a hole. I know of what I speak!

Most were either Vietcong or covering for the Vietcong.

geo, I didn't defend it. I do understand it which is more than I can say for most of you libs.

got nothing to do with politics.. 22 counts murder. have you given up on the law. Murder.

As damaging to America at the time as Jane Fonda and Walter Cronkite

#6 | Posted by vernon at 2009-08-22 09:49 AM |

The most trusted man in America became a political hack, giving aid and comfort to the enemy -- at the moment of American triumph.
That is the 'truth' you cling to
......#13 | Posted by vernon

......what horseshit Vern......

....you are either missing or avoiding the big picture......

......what were we doing in Viet Nam ??.....
......answer: nothing,just wasting lives and money......one of my uncle's included.....

According to the Pentagon every VC and NVA had been killed or captured by the end of Tet. Some several times over. According to their own figures.

#25 | Posted by northguy3

Just goes to show how mych you can trust the dems when they are in power.

Mai Lai was only"damaging to America" in the mindset of the lefties, who would like the spoils of war or a preferred status quo post or status quo ante, without a conflict that injures anyone.

Compared to the firebombings of Dresden and Tokyo, Mai Lai was trivial. We had somehow fallen under the delusion that wars could be waged and should be waged without inflicting horrific harm on people. That's not how it works If you want to prevail in a conflict you need to be unrestrained and ruthless in your willingness to kill and harm people and destroy property, and have no regrets.

If you become wishy-washy you just might as well relinquish your interests. The Iraq resistance could easily have been destroyed in six months if we had not hamstrung our own efforts.

The function of the military is not to "Do no harm." The function of the military is "To kill." If you don't want the military to perform its function, don't engage the enemy.

In a sense, I agree with an aspect of the lefties position. If you are not willing to wage war without restraint, then don't put your people in harm's way in a needlessly protracted struggle.

from reading your lovely missive, it would certainly appear that you endorse murder as a viable tool for furthering the political goals of the system. ergo, the deaths at the world trade center are fully explainable and justified. Those people were in the way of a political goal. See you really did sell your soul with the torture. first torture and now you justify peoples actions which resulted in a legal guilt for murder. I really hope you don't hold your self out to be religious as you are immoral

the following is just a partial report from the bbc

Soldiers went berserk, gunning down unarmed men, women, children and babies. Families which huddled together for safety in huts or bunkers were shown no mercy. Those who emerged with hands held high were murdered. ... Elsewhere in the village, other atrocities were in progress. Women were gang raped; Vietnamese who had bowed to greet the Americans were beaten with fists and tortured, clubbed with rifle butts and stabbed with bayonets. Some victims were mutilated with the signature "C Company" carved into the chest. By late morning word had got back to higher authorities and a cease-fire was ordered. My Lai was in a state of carnage. Bodies were strewn through the village

Johnson, sniper, you boys must be real proud, real proud. the honor of the u s military !!! just a trivial little military action

geo, if you are going to war, you need to do just that, if not, stay home.

You cannot fight and win a war using police tatics such as don't shoot unless you are shot at and reading the enemy their rights.

The last war we won was by bombing German and Japanese cities and factories. We took the will to fight out of them. The big bombs on Japan did keep many of our men and Japanese people from getting killed in the invasion that was in the making. They probably saved my fathers life because he was scheduled to take part in the early part of the invasion.

You can't fight for your life with one hand tied behind your back like we have been doing since Korea.

court of law, guilty of murder. I guess you also excuse the guy from Libya who was just let go by Scotland. Hell it was for his country, no big deal. I never heard not killing babies od not killing old people as fighting with one hand tied behind your back. That raping shit. what a military tactic!!! They probably deserved it right sniper you great American?

the Vietnam "war" was a crime and all who were in it criminals.

i have told many in today (Iraq, etc.) refuse to serve or desert.

make reparations. if this is the first time Calley has publicly said this, good, it's about time. changes little.

i was happy to Mccain defeated he was one big continuation (still is) of the thought that causes crimes like these. i thought his defeat represented a step in the right direction.

personally, i like Hillary's policies better. i voted Obama to help push from racism. i am (and have been) registered as Libertarian, but i may change soon --they've had all the push they could ever get out of me.

Reparations, the U.S. should be in a 12 step program. but we will likely have another bloody civil war. i thought it could be avoided, i hope that it will. the near future will likely put that into clearer perspective.

yes, Woke.

First of all, an occupation is not a war but a police action. And as that, our troops were not able to respond as it was a war. However, they were left as targets for those attacking them and over time and experience suffered stress and sorrow, things leading to overreactions. However, people keep glossing over the fact that these kinds of atrocities were being ORDERED from above. Lt. Calley was a peon, 2nd lieutenant. Free fire zones, search and destroy, using willy pete, torture interrogations were the unwritten orders of the day and Me Lai was not an isolated incident. And, as with Abu atrocities, the peons who were DIRECTED to do these things bore the brunt of punishment and those who directed it continue to escape scrutiny.

Secondly, Homegrown guerilla insurgents cannot be defeated by conventional foreign occupying armies. In part because insurgencies cannot be defeated by military operations, since it is a political problem requiring winning the hearts and minds of the people, something impossible to do by an occupying army.

How long would you be willing to resist a foreign occupier of your own country?

The lessons of these two occupations is clear. Stop attempting to control other the politics and resources of other countries militarily.

III Corps 69-70

So lets give the "Calley Deal" (he's long been a free man) to all the prisoners on Death Row in America!!! Let them all walk free...ah...after they've "sincerely" apologized for their brutal crimes!!! Sounds like one heck of a good deal doesn't it!!!

It's become the American way. Corporate interests are served and American servicemen are either corrupted or die, as do other innocent victims.

Meanwhile the US government holds outwardly solemn services for those who have sacrificed, while the elite snicker amongst themselves that Americans are being snookered to die for the rich.

I'm disgusted that Calley's CO Medina was acquitted on ALL charges. Calley carried the burden of the battle because he was the scapegoat in the field. Not fair. Just plain old wrong. My Lai was a bad, bad, mistake. Tragic to say the least. Mr. Calley should not have suffered all the condemnation for that tragic mistake. Now, that being said, get our men and women out of that cesspool of theocratic backwardness called Afghanistan. Drug lords, villagers loyal to the 'cause', kids with IED's...sound familiar?

Compared to the firebombings of Dresden and Tokyo, Mai Lai was trivial.

Oh, so because worse has been done, we shouldn't concern ourselves with this? What the fuck kind of idiot logic is that?

You cannot fight and win a war using police tatics such as don't shoot unless you are shot at

I believe the current rules of engagement disagree with you on this.

The last war we won was by bombing German and Japanese cities and factories.

Factories and such are obvious targets as they are responsible for supplying your enemy and is something that should be done.

However, the intentional bombing of civilians for the sake of breaking the enemies resolve is something that shouldn't be done and wasn't done until late in WWII.

"One person asked about the story of a helicopter coming into My Lai during the massacre and its pilot threatening to open fire if the killing of civilians didn't stop. Calley said the pilot asked if he could take children out of the area and he relayed that request to his captain, who said the pilot could."

I'd like to buy that pilot a beer someday and shake his hand.

The man who gave the order had F. Lee Bailey represent him and got off scott-free while his subordinate, who had to carry out the order, took all the blame.

Sounds a lot like Abu Ghraib.

The Tet Offensive was a dramatic defeat for the communists. The VC were virtually destroyed and the NVA was in major retreat.

#13 | Posted by vernon at 2009-08-22 11:00 AM | Reply | Flag:

You and your revisionist bull-shit are always good for a laugh.

Just goes to show how mych you can trust the dems when they are in power.

#37 | Posted by Sniper at 2009-08-22 05:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

The pentagon is run by 'Dems'?

Who knew!

Damn snippy, you make this too easy sometimes.

#13 | Posted by vernon | Flag: Flunked History 101

#18 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2009-08-22 11:37 AM | Reply | Flag: SAT IN THE PARKING LOT SMOKING POT DURING HISTORY CLASS

------

Although the offensive was a military defeat for the communists, it had a profound effect on the American administration and shocked the American public, which had been led to believe by its political and military leaders that the communists were, due to previous defeats, incapable of launching such a massive effort.

You and your revisionist bull-shit are always good for a laugh.

#52 | Posted by COMMONSENSE at 2009-08-22 11:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

see above

The Tet Offensive was a dramatic defeat for the communists. The VC were virtually destroyed and the NVA was in major retreat.

I don't remember where I saw it and would have to do some digging to come up with it, but I remember a while back reading or watching an interview where a VC general admitted that they were close to the breaking point after the Tet offensive and that a large surge on the part of the US would have broken them.

Again, this is from memory, I'll see if I can dig it up.

......what were we doing in Viet Nam ??.....
......answer: nothing,just wasting lives and money......one of my uncle's included.....

#36 | Posted by skizziks at 2009-08-22 04:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

The U.S. was in Vietnam as a continuation of the Truman Doctrine of containment. The view was that it's better to contain communism until its inevitable collapse from within.

The alternative would have been global nuclear war.

Of course, the Vietnamese had a different perspective. They'd been occupied by the French, and then the Americans came along and occupied them.

I'd always thought it profound that on V-J Day, Ho Chi Minh publicly read the American Declaration of Independence in Hanoi, saying there was no other document that reflected his aspirations so clearly.

He later wrote that his act was to declare Vietnam's independence from the Japanese and the French, and hoped the Americans would aid in forming an independent Vietnam.

Some historians have speculated that Ho Chi Minh was a communist mostly because that was the dominant revolutionary theory when he was studying in Paris.

(The Drunk-Dwarf would have mentioned this, but he was stoned during history class)

I got massacred on Mai Tais once.

Long Island Ice Teas did it for me.

And Black Russians knocked me for a loop a few times. lol

He later wrote that his act was to declare Vietnam's independence from the Japanese and the French, and hoped the Americans would aid in forming an independent Vietnam.

As I understand it,he thought that they would get the same deal as the Phillipines.France didn't have the right to go back after WWII.Hanoi Hilton was built by the French.

"The last war we won was by bombing German and Japanese cities and factories. "

You watch too many movies. The war was won on the Eastern front where 80% of the German military fought and died. The constant refrain that "we won the war" only highlights American ignorance and arrogance.

The pentagon is run by 'Dems'?

Who knew!

Damn snippy, you make this too easy sometimes.

#53 | Posted by COMMONSENSE

You are a moron. The sec of defense does run the military. If you think all thoes generals arn't political you are not only a moron but very stupid.

Why do you think they call the president the commander in chief? He is the head toad.

"The U.S. was in Vietnam as a continuation of the Truman Doctrine of containment. "

Containment, derives from "contain your desire for democracy, we're going to run things"

Although the offensive was a military defeat for the communists, it had a profound effect on the American administration and shocked the American public, which had been led to believe by its political and military leaders that the communists were, due to previous defeats, incapable of launching such a massive effort.
en.wikipedia.org
#54 | Posted by vernon

Which, of course, is exactly what I said in #22 above. Please, Vermin, couldn't you at least put a little more effort into not coming across as such a dumbass?

I guess you wern't there. Childern that young would come up and dump a gernade in your lap.

You should not speak about what you know nothing of.

#30 | Posted by Sniper at 2009-08-22 02:52 PM | Reply | Flag

I was there, and most 6 year olds weren't doing that. Those that did were in the larger cities like Saigon, and it rarely happened.

But I understand your logic that since a few did it, it is OK to kill all 6 year olds in your crosshairs. It is tha same logic Calley used that day.

geo, if you are going to war, you need to do just that, if not, stay home.

You cannot fight and win a war using police tatics such as don't shoot unless you are shot at and reading the enemy their rights.

The last war we won was by bombing German and Japanese cities and factories. We took the will to fight out of them. The big bombs on Japan did keep many of our men and Japanese people from getting killed in the invasion that was in the making. They probably saved my fathers life because he was scheduled to take part in the early part of the invasion.

You can't fight for your life with one hand tied behind your back like we have been doing since Korea.

#41 | Posted by Sniper at 2009-08-22 06:42 PM

Sniper,

You are missing an important point. You can only pull war crimes if you win the war. If you lose, your "tactics" might be war crimes.

I am a SEA veteran. I got the campaign ribbon, and I am cool with the outcome. It's forty years ago now, who gives a shit?

Just to correct some misinformation on this thread: Truman did not engage the USA into Vietnam, Eisenhower did. Truman's "doctrine" had nothing to do with Eisenhower committing us into VN in 1956....Ike began spewing the "domino theory" two years before committing us....
1954
Eisenhower Cites "Domino Theory" Regarding Southeast Asia: Responding to the defeat of the French by the Vietminh at Dienbienphu, President Eisenhower outlines the Domino Theory: "You have a row of dominoes set up. You knock over the first one, and what will happen to the last one is the certainty that it will go over very quickly."

1956
French Leave Vietnam
US Training South Vietnamese: The US Military Assistance Advisor Group (MAAG) assumes responsibility, from French, for training South Vietnamese forces.

At least we scapegoat a second lieutenant (Calley) for My Lai, not his captain or the higher-ups. In the case of Abu Ghraib, it's an illiterate PFC female guard who surely was never told about Geneva. As I read the inhumane apologia from the likes of Johnson and the Snipe, I do feel embarrassed that we're of the same species. herm

You REALLY need a new calculator, vermin....
You seem to have forgotten the Soviets were ass-deep in North Vietnam-at least a quarter of the fighters and bombers the North had-were FLOWN by Soviet Pilots.
Many of their Divisions and Regiments were TRAINED by the Soviets-some were even Commanded by Soviets.
A good many of the Pilots that were shot down early in the war-that were never recovered-were sent to Russia for interrogation-even the Russians have recently admitted so.
They-the Russians-would never have allowed them to fall-too many of their own people would have been captured-and the UN would have had to sanction them for being involved-and lying about it.

Had we pushed too hard-the Soviets would have gotten directly involved-are you SURE you wanted to see us get into a shooting war with them?

You poor delusional bastard! Your Nurse has been trying to contact you for days-your Meds are WAY behind-and you've lost what little mind you ever had......

Calley was a Democrat party scapegoat ... you idiots have no shame in your moronic attempts at insult ... have you?

"Calley was a Democrat party scapegoat"

Interesting take, considering he was charged, tried, and convicted during Nixon's watch. LOL.

Doc can't resist me, "Interesting take, considering he was charged, tried, and convicted during Nixon's watch. LOL."

Doc can't resist me...
The massacre took place on March 16, 1968"
72 | Posted by tadowe

Such a pathetic pantload of a narcissist you are, Tad. It's not about you; it's about the stupid statements you post.

The My Lai Massacre occurred in the spring of 1968. It was, however, not revealed to the public until a year after Nixon was elected (thank you, Ron Ridenhour and Seymour Hersh).

Couldn't you try even a little bit harder to get your facts straight?

"Couldn't you try even a little bit harder to get your facts straight?"

Posted by Doc_Sarvis

Example: The first American combat casualties in Viet Nam were on May 6, 1954.

Doc gets original, "Such a pathetic pantload of a narcissist you are, Tad. It's not about you; it's about the stupid statements you post."

See? I have this mystical internet power to get the verminous creep abortioners to call me names, any time I want!

"The My Lai Massacre occurred in the spring of 1968. It was, however, not revealed to the public until a year after Nixon was elected (thank you, Ron Ridenhour and Seymour Hersh)."

So, what? Does that mean that it wasn't Johnson's massacre? Does it mean that McNamara didn't order the cover-up?

No, what it means is that when Republicans discovered it - THEY MADE IT PUBLIC - THEY PROSECUTED IT.

The CRIME was the cover-up done by Democrats, now known as the Abortioner party.

"Couldn't you try even a little bit harder to get your facts straight?"

Couldn't you try a bit harder to cover-up the cover-up, instead of trying to blame Republicans for something you abortioners did ...?

No, because you are a slave to party, and literally cannot say anything negative about the abortioners ... right, party slave Doc?

Zatoichi displays his abortioner slavish attitutde, "Example: The first American combat casualties in Viet Nam were on May 6, 1954."

This big fat lie (you're so easy, Zat) is in order to make *Eisenhower* responsible for the Vietnam war ... not a Democrat like the warmonger Johnson ...

Indeed, Zatoichi KNOWS that this wasn't the first US military casualty in 'Nam -- he is lying on purpose, because I've posted this link for him more than once in the years I've been here:

"shot and killed in Saigon"

Some combat casualty.

Zat mocks reality, "Some combat casualty."

" flying supplies to poppy growers "

Bullshit.
He was flying artillery to the French at Diem Bien Phu.
I knew him, you lying ass.

Zat avoids reality, "I sat on his knee (I was four.) while he and my father discussed how to load the guns on the Flying Boxcar."

Oh, you mean the program begun by Truman to assist the French imperialists suppress democracy in Vietnam?

Then, you know that they were supplying the poppy growers with supplies and armament, too.

You don't believe me, right? That I was on the Laos desk? You don't think I knew about *ALL* the efforts by the CIA to support anti-communism ...?

You are one stupid idiot, Zat, and now cannot avoid me, because you hate me so much ...

I'm enabled by your abortioner ilk, Zat. Someday you may get that through your neo-communist skull ...

Please, please don't insult me no mores, Br'er Zat ...

Democrats didn't start it or finish (surrender) Tad, but were complicit in escalating it and hiding the FACTS about it from the American people. However, if you bother reading some facts about MeLai, you might realize that it wasn't "dems" who hid that but the military.

I can see you are only about partisan politics and this is not about that at all, yet....here you and your buddies are,.....attempting to divert the issue....to smear dems for Vietnam.

Hence, my earlier posting of the timeline.....www.english.uiuc.
edu

Now, why not try to view this, not as a partisan problem, but an American problem......

The true culprits are the military-industrial complex that Eisenhower warned against, and they are who PROFITS from these "occupations"......and they own and operate BOTH parties....

No?

Now, apply the lessons of VN to iraqnam and afghanistan if you are able to THINK for yourself. ??

Nobody gives a fuck which party started the Vietnam war except partisan hacks. Both parties have blood on their hands.

Woke says, "Democrats didn't start it or finish (surrender) Tad ..."

Truman supported the fight against communism, and so supplied the French AND South Vietnamese troops under French control with weapons, and ammunition; among other humanitarian aid. Why try and lie about it, unless you are an Abortioner party supporter?

"... if you bother reading some facts about MeLai, you might realize that it wasn't "dems" who hid that but the military."

You have a minimal understanding of the chain-of-command. I take it you weren't in the military, otherwise you'd know who controlled the aspects of that war ... and it wasn't the military during the Johnson regime.

"I can see you are only about partisan politics ... to smear dems for Vietnam."

Does that mean you are here to cover-up for them, then? I suspect that is the situation, since I don't defend Republicans on this site.

"Now, why not try to view this, not as a partisan problem, but an American problem ... The true culprits are the military-industrial complex that Eisenhower warned against ..."

BS! You're an old poster with a new nick, or otherwise a bit stupid for your abortioner party.

Eisenhower mis-spoke, and since the 'conspiracy' was between Congress and the Industrial complex who gained their support in selling the military weapons systems, instead of individual soldier's pay and equipment. The military has no CONTROL over what Congress spends the money on ... they can only suggest. You'd know that if you weren't a self-deluded abortioner.

"Now, apply the lessons of VN to iraqnam and afghanistan if you are able to THINK for yourself. ??"

The vote for war was overwhelmingly okayed by Congress ... Mr. Ostrich ...

Some abortioner says, "Nobody gives a fuck which party started the Vietnam war except partisan hacks. Both parties have blood on their hands."

See? Even though Democrats began the war, from 1945 onward, they claim that those who ended it (Republicans) are equally at fault for starting it ...

Scum, inveterate liars of the Abortioner Party ...

"Even though Democrats began the war,"

Nobody cares except partisan hacks.

Nobody gives a fuck which party started the Vietnam war except partisan hacks. Both parties have blood on their hands.

That's true. But one party has far more blood on their hands than the other.

"But one party has far more blood on their hands than the other."

Which one? As I recall, Nixon dropped more tonnage on Southeast asia in 4 years than the preceding 12 years. I bet you were going to say the Dems, right, Mr. "non-partisan"?

Which one?

Look at the casualty list on the link I posted and you tell me.

Mr. "non-partisan"?

You bit! And I didn't even have to say "liberal" or "democrat"

Fuck you're an easy and predictible catch, null.

"Look at the casualty list on the link I posted and you tell me."

What link? You don't have any link on this thread. You're full of shit.

But one party has far more blood on their hands than the other.

#87 | Posted by goatman at 2009-08-23 07:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

Which one?

My bad. I meant to post this link:

I take it you weren't in the military, otherwise you'd know who controlled the aspects of that war ...
#84 | POSTED BY TADOWE AT 2009-08-23 06:37 PM |

3rd SPS, III Corps, 69-70
Security on Gasoline Truck convoys
Bien Hoa to Tay Nihn

and YOU?

I'm not the one trying to use NAMECALLING, instead of reason and spewing partisan crapola on this thread son....YOU are...eh?

LMFAO

Woke says, "and YOU?"

Thanks for your service, troop.

519th MI Bn, Saigon, attached as advisor (interrogation) to the National Police Interrogation Center, Cholon, Vietnam 1966-67.

I joined the Army in 1960, and was a career officer until RIFed in '73, when the Democrats removed *ALL* funds for support of the Vietnamese who they had embroiled in a war that was world wide in its efforts. The Democrats abandoned an ally in the field and left them to the 'mercies' of the communists. It resulted in the death of millions in revenge ...

You obviously joined those who abandoned Vietnam ... were you drafted, is that it? So, you have to blame Nixon, right?

"I'm not the one trying to use NAMECALLING, instead of reason and spewing partisan crapola on this thread son....YOU are...eh?"

I'm here to call abortioners all the names I can think of to call them, after I reason why those 'names' apply. Abortioners are the ones who abandoned an ally in the field, and tried to subvert the success of a war for votes (Iraq.)

Now, of course, you can see that they are blatant, out of the closet hypocrites for not going to the streets and clogging Washington traffic with their protests against the war ...

Apparently, you are one of that ilk.

Come on back and thank me for my service, abortioner ...

BTW, I guess you truly are a newbie, and an honestly ignorant dupe for party over nation lies ...

Namecalling is no argument. It merely shows that you are unable to hold a debate about an issue. Especially considering your namecalling is off topic for this thread. Why is that?

You are the one who is putting some PARTISAN bullshit into this thread and it only serves to reinforce the idea that you have no reason or ability to think for yourself on these issues.

That's too bad

Welcome home.

Get a clue and try to realize we are all Americans. Not just you and your "ilk" as you put it. Just because you have been duped into believing there is some justification for invading/occupying other countries, by a corporate media in collusion with giant global war/oil profiteers, doesn't make it so.....

Placing our troops into countries in no win senarios as foreign occupiers with one hand tied behind their backs, less than appropriate armor, no directives to win the peace, allowing all the ammo dumps to be looted ("stuff happens"-rummy) and then saying "bring em on" is not much of a mission imho.....

While those who own/operate our elected reps reap huge windfalls of our tax dollars as war/oil profiteers......sending our vets back for 3-4 tours with little break in between, stoplossing them beyond their discharge dates......makes it difficult to see who truly supports the vets......

But, perhaps you can offer up several examples (or just one) where a foreign occupying conventional army defeated a homegrown guerilla insurgency.....

THINK on this if you are able to see beyond your indoctrination.....If you cannot show us an example, then perhaps you must admit these invasions/occupations are not viable and therefore, you should begin to realize that they are for the war profiteers and that is all....and by supporting sending our troops into non winnable missions, you are not actually supporting our troops, but a politically partisan pov....which certainly seems to be the case considering your posts......

Honor the warriors, not the war

Woke comes back, "Namecalling is no argument."

Well, then why aren't you out issuing your ad hominem at the Leftists who dispense the 'name calling' on a minute by minute basis? Because you are one of those issuing 'name calling' as reasoning, here where Rogers gives the 'red meat' for the yellow-dogs. What do you think the term, "Yellow-Dog-Democrat" means, apparently ignorant dupe?

"It merely shows that you are unable to hold a debate about an issue."

The Vietnam issue has been asked and answered over-and-over on this site. You are nothing more than another clonish example of the lies coming from Leftists who actually assisted the communist imperialists to 'win' the war.

"You are the one who is putting some PARTISAN bullshit into this thread..."

Johnson and McNamara were responsible for the Mai Lei cover up, and that's what I said to the lie that Nixon was responsible. It is *always* the effort by the abortioners to blame Republicans for the war in 'Nam, and usually by some inference that Eisenhower did "it." I posted my references, while your ilk were calling me names, too.

"Welcome home."

I was spit on by Democrats, after Nixon became president ... not before then ...

And, this is your 'thanks'? I expect nothing more from abortioner ilk, than that they literally cannot thank a conservative for *anything* ... your ilk is so head-in-the-sand intransigent.

"Get a clue and try to realize we are all Americans."

That's why Democrats have been calling fellow Americans birthers, warmongers, imperialists, nazis, torturers, war criminals, too stupid for any other job than military, baby killers, and every other name they can think of to call Republicans ... right, Mr just-woke-up?

"Honor the warriors, not the war."

Yeah, that's why Kerry called the too dumb for civilian life, and Murtha called them murderers ... along with the rest of the abortioner ilk on this site, for six years, daily and minute by minute ...

FO ... you're just another of the lying Democrat, subvert the success of a war for votes (but only when a Republican is president).

If a Democrat is president, then it is Republicans who are the evil ones, and the Democrat wars are GOOD: Invasion of Haiti, two Iraqi air wars, Bosnia/Serbia invasion, Somalia assassination attempts, burning to death 23 children to fight fundamentalist Christianity ... ad nauseam ...

What an ignorant dupe you are for your abortioner party, goosestepping to the Obama drum ... now the war is GOOD, right? No need for your ilk to clog Washington with your odiferous bodies in protest of the evil ... since now the "Plan" is to follow the Bush "Plan" ...

You pack of liars cannot fool me, however much you fool the likes of Lisa ...

Hmmm....say you support war veterans, but ONLY if they subscribe to your particular political indoctrination?

Who's the blind political partisan here Tad?

I didn't say I support 'war veterans,' you did in order to put words in my mouth ... like a lying leftist abortioner would.

I certainly don't support any 'war veteran' who lies in order to support and advance his party over nation ... the scum foresworn in their oaths creeps who do so ...

You appear to be one of those liars for party over nation in your efforts to attack me, ad hominem.

Tadowe educates the rest of us in the finer points of hypocrisy: "You appear to be one of those liars for party over nation in your efforts to attack me, ad hominem."

"like a lying leftist abortioner would"
"So, get on his ass, idiot ..."
"along with the rest of the abortioner ilk on this site, for six years, daily and minute by minute ..."
"What an ignorant dupe you are for your abortioner party, goosestepping to the Obama drum"
"You support Abortioners, Lisa, and when you lie down with dogs, you get their fleas ..."
"... but you're too busy sucking abortioner's hind tit, here for your abortioner reputation ... while they revile and dehumanize 'birthers' ..."
"I'm enabled by your abortioner ilk, Zat. Someday you may get that through your neo-communist skull ..."

I was spit on by Democrats

I was spit on by Democrats...
#97 | Posted by tadowe | Flag: LIAR

History lesson time with Professor Vermin...

"As damaging to America at the time as Jane Fonda and Walter Cronkite"

"The Tet Offensive was a dramatic defeat for the communists. The VC were virtually destroyed and the NVA was in major retreat."

"The alternative would have been global nuclear war."

The really sad thing, of course, is that he actually believes these lies.

That's also the funny thing, btw.

Watching Mad Tad gibber and froth was pretty gud lulz too.

On Topic?

Calley apologises?

Better late than never.

Putting him on the Rotary Club's rubber chicken ciruit to say this stuff seems kinda weird tho.

Be Well.

#101

I thought maybe tad should be directed to Jerry Lembeke's book, The Spitting Image, which details his attempts to prove ANY of the spitting myths. Lembeke researched Bob Greene's accounts of vets being spat upon by lefties upon their return from nam and NONE of the 63 accounts could be verified.

Nevermind on the link thingy.. this site just shortens them but does take one to the correct page....my bad!

I love the 'myth' that it is a myth that soldiers were spit on by leftist protestors.

You idiots always have it both ways in quibbling about words. If the term is meant abstractly, the vocabulary saboteurs deny it in reality. If the term is used literally, they of course deny it, also.

In 1969, my car was pelted with garbage and 'spit at' by a crowd lining the entrance to the Presidio of Monterey, Monterey, CA. The next day, I used the back entrance to the post and again the protestors threw garbage and virtually spit at me.

In 1976, after finding out I was an officer in 'Nam, I was literally spit on by a 'liberal' who had been one of the various mobs in protest, durin the war.

Those same words, in general, have been posted on this site previously and aren't any lie.

It is no myth that soldiers were spat upon by leftist jerkoffs trying to lose a war for the USA ... and which Democrats accomplished for them by removing all funding to support the South Vietnamese democracy, and in favor of the communist imperialists who had actually started the war with their invasion.

Suck it up, Abortioner filth ...

If there is no myth, then why has Bob Greene's book that recorded 63 incidents of this been totally debunked? (btw, Greene was also discredited later as a pedophile who preyed upon a teen girl in one of his other important writings for the weekender in Chicago.....

Here is more of Lembeke's book DETAILING the lies.....

btw Tad,

I'm still waiting for you to cite one instance of a conventional foreign occcupying force defeating a homegrown guerilla insurgency.....

tick, tock....

ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz

Times up. You can't do it, therefore, you should admit that sending our troops into these invasion/occupations is a NO WIN SENARIO for them, for us and for the country....and the ONLY people who benefit are giant, global war/oil corporations

eh?