I know, I know. Facts are no substitute for GNOP lies.

Fact is he fucked up and tried to rush it through. Fact is now people are suspicious. Fact is he's all over the map trying to defend it. And Fact is Nancy Pelosi can't be trusted.

Fact is that with Ted Kennedy and Tom Daschle, who was supposed to shepherd this thru the Senate Finance committee, out of action, Max Baucus, industry hack and western state wanker, was able to gum up the works.

But that doesn't excuse the dedicated lying and perpetual myth making of the GOP about the substance of the bills being proposed.

Fact is Republicans are lying sacks of shit.

The GOP is behind the spreading of lies and distortions of the truth to stop health care reform. This party uses the elderly and frightens them then then has FOX Nation report the lies on TV.

"54 percent said the overhaul will lead to a government takeover of health care"

We are talking about what is in the Bills, Sally.

You know, what might actually become law.

Fact is the Dmocrats have the majority but a few of their own members aren't behind it. But those damned Republicans....

Corky, off topic but where has SanAn been?

"54 percent said the overhaul will lead to a government takeover of health care"

But it doesn't ask the clarifying question which is do you think it should lead to government takeover of healthcare?

But those damned Republicans.... can't even tell the truth about what's in the Bills.

Corky, off topic but where has SanAn been?

#9 | Posted by wisgod

On vacation from here, I hope. But I don't know.

I do think it's suspicious though, that he and this band are both "missing".

"You know, what might actually become law."

I understand, but the misinformation out there is often based on the statements of the lawmakers. It is difficult to know exactly what is going on without an explanation from those that were instrumental in pushing of the bills.

"THE POLL: 55 percent expect the overhaul will give coverage to illegal immigrants; 34 percent don't. "

While illegals won't be given "credits" this is spelled out in the bill (sec 246), would illegals be able to purchase the public option, if so then wouldn't this be "coverage" as stated in the poll?

How does the IRS intervene when illegals make use of the system, but don't pay the "penalty"? As a citizen I have to pay it, would they?

Which raises the question, could someone enter the country, and pay for the public option for a couple of months, get treatment, then leave, and not pay again?

Just asking, help set me straight....

#14

All arguments for why it has to be single payer.

Funny that the substantive arguments against the public option are harder to dispense with than those against single payer, but single payer is not an option for the public.

The libbies know that whatever the facts are NOW can be changed with future legislation. Budget crises, new items slipped into future bills that aren't read--you can do anything you want once the apparatus is in place. Two generations ago health care in the UK wasn't rationed; now it is. Two generations ago investment in drug R&D across the English-speaking world was roughly at parity; now, it's overwhelmingly US. And two generations ago, Medicare wasn't threatening to collapse the entire entitlement system.

It's the libbies who are lying, mainly to themselves. There's no money for this.

Most Americans don't want to be communist.
And they're waking up to the fact that Obama is a fascist, communist, un-American usurper.

They don't even read the bills before they sign them.
So how the fuck would they know what is in them?

"They don't even read the bills before they sign them."

Only you and a few other posters here are ignorant enough to think there's anything new in that.

"And they're waking up to the fact that Obama is a..."

Hey, you left out Reptillian-Human Hybridoid Model #37-A (Kenyan Variation).

ROTFLMAO!

-The libbies know that whatever the facts are NOW can be changed with future legislation.

Ah, see?

What we have here is people who, when confronted with the facts of what are in the proposals instead of the myths, reverting to the, "Yeah, but this is what they might, maybe do in the future." excuse for a real argument.

Pretty lame, eh?

Might, maybe?

Whatever. I wonder how many people would have run and signed on to the Medicare bandwagon, if they knew that it would eventually bankrupt the Treasury?

But party on. Good luck killing--or even shrinking--any government program. You know as well as I how tenuous all these silly Dumbo proposals are--they're obviously just making it all up as they go along. "Abortion, sure!" "Oh, wait. No, not this time."
So I'll just say no. And guess what? I'm not so alone anymore.

Oh, I forgot, "gub'mint ebil"!

I seem to remember when we wanted a government of, by, and for the people.

Too bad so many people listened to Reagan and gave up on that American ideal

-
Well, I notice that no one has managed to refute any of the article's facts that contradict the myths, so I'll take that as an admission of guilt.

It's the libbies who are lying, mainly to themselves. There's no money for this.

#17 | Posted by rightisright

Oh Right is SO Wrong again! So, we have trillions for an unnecessary War based on LIES in which the Security of United States was not even threatened but yet we don't have enough money for Health Care for your fellow Americans. So, you are saying you are ok with 47 million Americans going without proper Health Care and up to 18,000 Americans DYING each year simply because they have NO access to health care? Not enough money?

Bullshit! YOU are the liar.

Most Americans don't want to be communist.
And they're waking up to the fact that Obama is a fascist, communist, un-American usurper.

#18 | Posted by JeffnDenmark

I am sorry to have to resort to this...but...

YOU ARE AN IDIOT! STFU! YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT AMERICANS ARE WAKING UP TO!

I am sorry to have to resort to this...but...I know your right and I can't argue with your logic so I have to resort to the usual name calling and text screaming.

[li'l jeffy]YOU ARE AN IDIOT! STFU! YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT AMERICANS ARE WAKING UP TO!

#25 | Posted by donnerboy

Now there's something 99% of the DR can agree on.

"President Barack Obama's lack of a detailed plan for overhauling health care ..."

So Corky's all excited about 'fact checking' something that has no facts.

Gee pounding away 24/7 on the radio, lying every day and night on Fox News, REpublican Senators and Congressmen openly lying in speeches and town hall meetings, etc. is having an effect???

Whodathunkit???

The insurance industry wouldn't be spending over one million per day if it wouldn't produce results.

Meanwhile, the same nit wits who oppose real reform will be hit with price hikes, denied claims, etc. just like the rest of us. Some folks love ideology more than their own families.

Some folks love ideology more than their own families.

You'll go to this extreme to judge folks who are exercising their right to speak their minds about what they want for themselves and their families.

what is laughable is that you are the last fool on this blog to be making that statement unless you include yourself.

In any case, who the fuck are you to judge my opinions like that?

I'm pretty fucking sure I have made much better decisions in my life than 99% of the population including dolts like yourself.

What an angry and pathetic person you must be for you to judge me for the decisions I make for my family.

Perhaps you should just calm down and attempt to respect other opinions and positions just a little bit danni.

So Corky's all excited about 'fact checking' something that has no facts.

#28 | Posted by vernon at 2009-08-20 09:07 PM | Reply | Flag: Missed thees plan and all Congressional plans which hold these policies in common

What a joke. The feds can't operate a fucking thing without a running up a deficit. They're going bankrupt while you morons find more ways to waste money. Stupid! Really stupid!!!

"What an angry and pathetic person you must be for you to judge me for the decisions I make for my family."

You seem to believe I necessarily incuded you in that group, regardless, many of those who oppose health care reform will find themselves out of work and without insurance or just priced out of the market for it. That's a simple fact of life here in the good old US of A. Now, those folks are entitled to their own opinions but by the same token I am too, and mine is that they put right wing talking point values ahead of real health care availability for their own families. If you are in that group then that's your choice but I don't have to respect it. To me it is irresponsible and selfish.
BTW, I have a brother who fits exactly into that description and yes, I have always considered him irresponsible and selfish. He has is idiotic right wing political views while his own kids go without healthcare and many other necessities.

"What a joke. The feds can't operate a fucking thing without a running up a deficit."

Well, not since the tax cuts REagan first brought us and with it the very deficits you speak of. It isn't government that can't operate without deficits, it's REpublicans who prefer deficits over taxes. Their line "deficits don't matter" says it all.

BTW, I have a brother who fits exactly into that description and yes, I have always considered him irresponsible and selfish. He has is idiotic right wing political views while his own kids go without healthcare and many other necessities.

I'll bet your family looks forward to holidays so they can watch you and your brother lock horns.

well lets see

bagdad bob just told a reported yesterday that illegals would be getting health care at er's and even obama said it on that socalled conservative hosts radio show...

so where does that put this truth squad...

and according to the bill itslef

a doctor can lose accredidation and money if he doesnt get enough people to sign up for end of care stuff

BUT EVEN more revealing

document called...."your life, your choices" given to people in VA care talks about pulling the plug

any VEts out there know more about this????

It isn't government that can't operate without deficits, it's REpublicans who prefer deficits over taxes.

If by the end of Obama's term as POTUS, he manages to lower the debt and spending deficits then I will agree with you.

Well, not since the tax cuts REagan first brought us and with it the very deficits you speak of. It isn't government that can't operate without deficits, it's REpublicans who prefer deficits over taxes. Their line "deficits don't matter" says it all.

#34 | Posted by danni at 2009-08-21

JEESHH

when will you see the light...the errors of your ways...open your eyes

ANOTHER OBAMA PROGRAM iS A DISMAL FAilure..

program to help home foresclosures a DISMAL FAILURE

cash for clunkers

dealers STILL DONT HAVE THIER MONEY....

#34 | Posted by danni at 2009-08-21 11:39 AM | Reply | Flag: Brain dead

#29 | Posted by danni

You just can't accept the fact that intelligent and well-read people don't want your nanny state.

Obama and the Dems have labelled opponents to their healthcare package as:

1. Republicans who are misleading and lying about the Dems wonderful plan

2. Idiots who are being duped by these viscious, lying Republicans

That's it. No other possibilities exist on this. Not only is it wrong, it's fucking condescending as hell and people take umbrage to condescension.

No, Jeffy, what people are waking up to is 14,000 of them losing their health care daily, and premiums tripling the last 5 years while insurance profits quadrupled.

We are not going towards a nanny state, we are moving away from a corporate greed and corporate welfare status quo state.

nice try corkmeister...

wont work...classwarfare might work when it comes from acorn and seiu but even then .,...you arent enough of a goon or thug to pull it off like they can..

what people are waking up to is that obama is a liar and has been lieing for some time and the media isnt able to cover it up anymore like they did during the campaign..

the worm turns more everyday...

In 4th quarter 2008 out of 87 inustries, health plan provision ranked dead last.

#43 can you translate that into English? I don't speak wingnut.

There's no money for this.

#17 | Posted by rightisright at 2009-08-20 01:26 PM |

Money grows on trees, just like raw meat.