"All I'm saying is, though, that the public option, whether we have it or we don't have it, is not the entirety of health care reform," Obama said at a town hall meeting in Grand Junction, Colo. "This is just one sliver of it, one aspect of it."

Doesn't indicate death quite yet.

This is what you get when you come up with a half-assed plan that satisfies neither left or right. Obama should've waited until the economy recovered and then made an all-out effort for single payer.

He ain't done yet.

Oh, and fuck the insurance industry.

Without a public option there is no reform.

Only more loopholes for the insurance and pharmaceutical industries.

Business as usual in D.C.

If it goes down like this, it will have an adverse effect on the Dem coattails vote in 2010.

Senator Conrad said bluntly that the option is dead.. who knows.. hard to figure these dem talking points out.

Somebody call George Soros and get the real story

If Obama leaves 50 million uninsured, we'll have another dem President in 2012. One that will work for Americans.

If it goes down like this, it will have an adverse effect on the Dem coattails vote in 2010.

#5 | Posted by silver_ironist at 2009-08-16 04:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

Not at all---I think 2010 will define what the public wants. Those who are against UHC will be gone--dems or reps.

That so many Americans oppose health care for all Americans shows what a shithead nation we have become---or have always been.

"Oh, and fuck the insurance industry."

You can't compromise with the insurance industry and their shills. You just have to beat them down.

Bob shows ostrich trait, "If Obama leaves 50 million uninsured ..."

See? Bob has been presented with proof, after proof that this claim is exaggerated all out of proportion ...

... But, Bobby continues to spread the BS for the yellow-dogs to gobble up, like the curs will do for veggies ...

Roll over for your leftist master, Bobby boy! Good, doggy ...

...shows what a shithead nation we have become---or have always been.

Bingo!

Americans have rarely agreed on anything.

Obama lies even when he doesn't have to lie. Don't believe anything he says. Kill the obamacare bill!!

Without a public option there is no reform.

Only more loopholes for the insurance and pharmaceutical industries.

Business as usual in D.C.

---------

The owners win either way.

The public option isn't dead. Just tell Obama where to send the bottle of aspirin and the jar of vaseline.

People are responsible for providing for there own medical services just like any other personal expense. No one is responsible for the payment of any other person's personal expenses.

There is no RIGHT to having your personal expenses paid by another person.

Obamaniac is trying to destroy the Unites States in order to establish a socialist dictatorship!

No one is responsible for the payment of any other person's personal expenses.

#15 | Posted by gluon at 2009-08-16 07:01 PM | Reply | Flag: Thinks Blue Cross is a socialist front organization

It would be a great plan for Obama to give up the public option with a 60-seat Democratic majority in the Senate and the House, losing the support of liberals. All the right wingers who hate everything he does, no matter what, would change their minds about him and make up for the liberals he lost.

Isn't that how it works in politics? You drop the people who got you into office and the people who voted against you become your supporters?

That so many Americans oppose health care for all Americans shows what a shithead nation we have become---or have always been.

#8 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

Yup, The Constitution NEVER authorized (and still does not authorize or require) the Federal government to pay for everyone's health care. Further, It is not just "Americans" that are getting the free health care, but also all of our illegal friends and other non citizens.

Damn this country for wanting people to be independent and ...dare I say...RESPONSIBLE for themselves. Yeah, I guess you could go to Cuba or Russia, or China, or any of the other countries where the people are subjects, not citizens, and they have the government to do all of their thinking for them, to take care of them from cradle to grave.

Personally, I am so happy that I am able to be responsible for my health care (I pay for it), my retirement (I saved for it), and my life style (I earned it). I am not in any great hurry to give mine up for someone who hasn't had the foresight to take care of their own business...and I certainly don't think any of them have a right to take it from me!

If public option is dropped, that's the end of my support for this President and this Congress. We elected all of you to effect change, and if no change is forthcoming, that leaves us with no choice but to go back to the system next election cycle and vote for people who will work for it.

You drop the people who got you into office and the people who voted against you become your supporters?

#17 | Posted by rcade at 2009-08-16 07:40 PM

I suppose it's a good thing for you that you own a blog. Reality doesn't seem to be your forte'.

Oh, and fuck the insurance industry.

#4 | Posted by Big_League_Chew at 2009-08-16 04:19 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

You can say that again!

"fuck the insurance industry"

Skull fuck the insurance industry.

Obama got his ass kicked. He has those big black lips pressed firmly to Rush Limbaugh's ass right now as I type this. Film at 11.

Purple lips.

"The Constitution NEVER authorized (and still does not authorize or require) the Federal government to pay for everyone's health care."

Nor does it authorize interstate highways.

What's your point?

The party that succeeds with extreme initiatives is the party that would seemingly be most opposed to them.

Take the "opening toward China." Could a Democrat or moderate Republican without a record of consistent antagonism toward the PRC have undertaken that task? Probably not. If radical changes in the health care financing and delivery system occur, they will undoubtedly issue from "the right." Hopefully the proposed changes would be honestly presented and not cause the disruption and change of direction in the system, impoverishing it while depriving recipients of care under a proposed care allocation system with other priorities.

I just read an article by Lamar Smith in "The Christian Science Monitor" addressing the unexamined situation of the 46,000,000 uninsured in the U.S., who are all erroneously identified as "Americans."

Of the 46 million, 9.5 million are non-citizens, 12 million individuals eligible for public programs but not enrolled, 9 million temporarily uninsured due to job change, and 7 million have incomes of more than $84,000 per year who elect to forgo coverage.

There are some 8 million long-term uninsured. These individuals could be covered without the drastic and massive changes proposed by the Democrats.

The population of the United States today is 305 million. The uninsured enumerated supra total 46 million many with most fo them having resources available to them. The insured total 259 million.

Nor does it authorize interstate highways.

What's your point?

#25 | Posted by Danforth

I guess you never heard of the Commerce Clause?

The portended costs of health care are reflected in the CBO report and constradict the outright lies of that glib sociopath Obama.

The nonpartisan CongressionaL Budget Office reported that over a ten year period with taxes raised by $820 billion, and Medicare Advantage cut $150 billion the remaining deficit would be only $239 billion because of this program. That is an increased deficit without tax increases and program cuts of $1 trillion 209 billion.

As the writer observes, the dynamics of the proposals which are contained in more than 1000 pages which the administration sought to conceal from the public, provide for a situation in which private insurance would disappear, and then the government would further curtail its allowances of procedures and medications.

'There are some 8 million long-term uninsured. These individuals could be covered without the drastic and massive changes proposed by the Democrats.'

Anyone who uses the 46 million figure is intentionally trying to mislead the public.

"Damn this country for wanting people to be independent and ...dare I say...RESPONSIBLE for themselves"

So victims of recision are irresponsible?

recision (r-szhn)
n.
The act of rescinding; annulment or cancellation.
[Obsolete French, from Old French, annulment of a judgment, from Latin recsi, recsin-, from recsus, past participle of recdere, to cut back : re-, re- + caedere, to cut; see ka-id- in Indo-European roots.]

Preferences. Preferences.

With its homosexual constituency, the administration would probably pay for "gender reassignment" and eliminate payment for counseling of those who are homosexuals and recognize their unfortunate situation, and want to attempt to change their sexual orientation.

Then there are the procedures and medications that would be allowed. Of course, expensive end-of-life care would be restricted and euthanasia or assisted suicide provided as an alternative resource.

The obese would not be permitted to have joint replacement surgery. Drinkers would not be allowed liver surgery. There would be a plethora of life-style and risk-taking restrictions, perhaps exclusion of care for non-helmeted motorcycle riders or automobile riders not using seatbelts. But would the powers that be curtail the expensive treatments allowed for lifelong administration of medications to treat HIV and AIDS as preferable to paying for care for seniors, the disabled, and for those suffering orphan diseases?

Obtaining care would become a politically based lottery.

'Skull fuck the insurance industry.'

It is amazing the amount of hate the Democrat party is able to focus on any group they decide to vilify.

The insurance industry deserves to be skull fucked? Really? Please remember the people who are employed in the Insurance Industry are men and women who provide insurance. Nothing evil about insurance, it isn't like they are mutants from parallel dimension who want to socialize 1/6 of the U.S. economy.

If Howard Dean decided that the Democrat Party could benefit by demonizing Florists 99% of the Democrats would immediately fall in line and start talking about how Florists needed 'skull fucked' because they charge to much for roses.

People who work in the insurance industry take financial risks based on Actuarial Tables. It's really not that exciting, it's just a business.

Get a grip people.

Democrats, try to think for yourselves and stop being mindless haters.

If he strips out the government run thing, what's left?

Posted by SNIPER at 2009-08-16 10:00 PM...."If he strips out the government run thing, what's left?"

Freedom is what's left, and less government intrusion into our private lives.

"Freedom is what's left"

Medicare, anyone?

"With its homosexual constituency, the administration would probably pay for "gender reassignment" and eliminate payment for counseling of those who are homosexuals and recognize their unfortunate situation, and want to attempt to change their sexual orientation."

Johnson:

I have a sneaking suspicion that Sam Peckinpah movies are not straight enough for your tastes.

If he strips out the government run thing, what's left?

#35 | Posted by Sniper at 2009-08-16 10:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

This is a good compromise that everyone should get behind. If you think this compromise doesn't go far enough, you can no longer deny that you want to see socialized medicine.

Medicare, anyone?

No.

Thank you for asking.

Jak will reject any coverage by Medicare when his trust fund runs out. I think that's a promise.

You heard it here first.

I don't have a "trust fund", Boyd.

That's the security blanket silly fucking, finger-sniffing white liberals have to fall back on as they advocate public policy that fucks everyone over.

Its a shame that, politically, you're such a naive and stupid mother fucker.

Oh. Sorry. Substitute " inherited land/wealth" for "trust fund".

My bad.

Still, it's encouraging that you are stepping up and declaring that you will reject any coverage under Medicare as a matter of principle.

That's the security blanket silly fucking, finger-sniffing white liberals have to fall back on as they advocate public policy that fucks everyone over.

Just look no farther than Obama to prove your point. If ever there was a "silly fucking, finger-sniffing white liberal" with a trust fund, it's him....

Later Jak.

Still, it's encouraging that you are stepping up and declaring that you will reject any coverage under Medicare as a matter of principle.

#43 | Posted by BetelG

Medicare is bankrupt.

It is in far worse shape than Social Security.

Yet, you want to extend this 'Utopia' to ALL Americans, by force.

Amazing and sad.

Medicare sets their own prices without negotation; they simply do it by force. Medicare patients are serviced at a loss to the providers. Every single one of them. Despite this, the program is STILL broke.

Just look no farther than Obama to prove your point. If ever there was a "silly fucking, finger-sniffing white liberal" with a trust fund, it's him....

#44 | Posted by BetelG

Your 'arguments' don't change the fact that Obama is in favor of a massive expansion of the federal government.

"Obama May Drop Public Option"

What a f'ing surprise... the ball-less wonder that he is.

He's more concerned about preserving his incumbency than anything else... douchebag.

In the end all he's going to have to show for his legacy is that he was the first black president.

"Obama May Drop Public Option"

What a f'ing surprise... the ball-less wonder that he is.

He had no choice, Hag. The public is largely opposed to the public option. He sold it hard and he failed. He didn't have enough support within his own party to get it passed.

I am not sure what else you expected him to do.

He sold it hard and he failed. He didn't have enough support within his own party to get it passed.

Personally, I don't want any bill on health care "reform" to pass until we've reclaimed a Republican majority.

This isn't a pressing issue, and everyone knows it.

I haven't "inherited" anything, either---other than the low expectations of sexual satisfication that come with popping your wife when fate finds me in Lubbock.

You're lucky he left - you might have made him cry with that one.

Personally, I don't want any bill on health care "reform" to pass until we've reclaimed a Republican majority.

I hear what you are saying, but the GOP has a shitty recent track record when it comes to restraining government largesse.

Republicans would let the poor die in the streets if they ever got to 60. If jak wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth he would starve. He has no marketable skills and being the town idiot won't pay for much.

They certainly do, Jeff.

They certainly do.

Republicans would let the poor die in the streets if they ever got to 60

Yeah but we could feed them to the young, poor people.

Have you ever had bicep jerky, Jackass?

Good shit.

You're lucky he left - you might have made him cry with that one.

boyd can't stand the heat here very long. He was particularly overwhelmed tonight

Jak I pray you end up disabled, broke and without healthcare. Then as you beg for help a pos rethug tells you that you did not take personal responsibility in your life.

He's probably the most emotionally brittle little fuck I've ever encountered online.

Alexandrite used to be worse, and may still be. I dunno--he's no longer "middle class" and doesn't post here much presumably because he's busy making so much money.

But hands down, Boyd is the most emotionally invested and therefore entertaining bitch this website has ever produced.

Jak I pray you end up disabled, broke and without healthcare.

You must have a direct line to the Lord himself because that was me about 12 hours ago....

Jesus Fucking Christ I don't want to get up tomorrow and go to work.

I need to go get teachers certificate.

What the fuck could Daddy do with that kind of time off...

This sounds an awful lot like most of the Obamacare supporters. Notice in the song below the ants help the grasshopper out of kindness (not force) but he is expected to work for what he gets from then on. Most liberals seem to want to throw out that last part and just stick with having the ants do all the work for them.

THE WORLD OWES ME A LIVING

Oh the world owes me a living
Deedle dardle doodle deedle dum
Oh the world owes me a living
Deedle dardle doodle deedle dum

If I worked hard all day I might
Sleep badder when in bed at night
I sleep all day so that's alright
Deedle dardle doodle deedle dum

There once was an old grasshopper
Who could only think of fun
He looked on work as something too
Unpleasant to be done

He loved to sit in the summer sun
And fiddle all day long
While dozing there he played this air
And singed this little song

The north wind blew the leaves away
When winter came one stormy day
The snow fell fast upon the ground
No food nor shelter could be found

This old grasshopper sad and weak
Could hardly hop or view his feet
He slipped, He fell
Poor Chap, Farewell

Some ants stayed in their hilly home
Looked out and saw him sneezing
They soaked his feet in mustard sauce
He grew better soon
Now every day they hear him play
And sing this little tune

Oh I owe the world a living
Deedle dardle doodle deedle dum, ah-choo!
Oh I owe the world a living
Deedle dardle doodle deedle dum, ah-choo!

I got a bad cold in my head
You ants were right the time you said
You've got to work for all you get
Deedle dardle doodle deedle dum, ah-choo

I just want health care that actually WORKS.

Being self-employed (i.e. smallest kind of small business possible), I pay twice as much on health insurance premiums as insurance for my home and vehicles COMBINED.

And when the time comes when I need it, will all of that money I pissed into a black hole do me any good?

Will I be 'denied' coverage for some surgery or treatment that I need?

Will I be out of my own plan's coverage area (often as small as the county/parish you live in) when I get sick/hurt?

When I was 23, I got appendicitis, and they transported to the WRONG hospital (not an 'approved' hospital). That wiped out the $20,000 savings I had up until then while I had been in the USAF.

Will they find some loophole, like a past medical history issue... like a head cold that I didn't mention when I filled out the forms to get insurance, and cancel my insurance on the spot?

I want my insurance to work ANYWHERE in the U.S. or U.S. territories. I want it to work in ANY hospital. I don't want to have to complete a 'medical history' for every new doctor I ever meet, and remember the name of whatever pills some other doctor has me on, especially while I'm bleeding and/or delirious.

What I know for sure is: You don't get anywhere 'compromising' with assholes. You cram these fixes down their throats with a stick and tell them to smile.

Being self-employed (i.e. smallest kind of small business possible), I pay twice as much on health insurance premiums as insurance for my home and vehicles COMBINED.

A co-op would fix that for you.

When I was 23, I got appendicitis, and they transported to the WRONG hospital (not an 'approved' hospital). That wiped out the $20,000 savings I had up until then while I had been in the USAF.

You can thank Ted Kennedy for that. He is the one that drafted the 1973 Act that set up the current health care situation and gave managed care the dominant power. The follow quote is from the opening statement Ted Kennedy gave in 1978 as they were considering amendments to the 1973 Act:

"Today the Subcommittee on Health and Scientific Research holds hearings on proposed amendments to federal statutes supporting the development of health maintenance organizations...These amendments would extend and strengthen current authorities supporting HMOs in this country....

"As the author of the first HMO bill ever to pass the Senate, I find this spreading support for HMOs truly gratifying. Just a few years ago, proponents of health maintenance organizations faced bitter opposition from organized medicine. And just a few years ago, congressional advocates of HMOs faced an administration which was long on HMO rhetoric, but very short on action.

"The current revival of the HMO movement should come as no surprise. HMOs have proven themselves again and again to be effective and efficient mechanisms for delivering health care of the highest quality. HMOs cut hospital utilization by an average of 20 to 25 percent compared to the fee-for-service sector. They cut the total cost of health care by anywhere from 10 to 30 percent. And they accomplish these savings without compromising the quality of care they provide their members.

"In fact, many medical experts argue that the peer review built into group practice in the HMO setting promotes a quality of care superior to that found in the traditional health care system.... "In our enthusiasm to see HMOs proliferate throughout this country we should not lose sight of the need to guarantee the quality and integrity of the prepaid plans we create."

I don't get the GOP's resistance to a public 'option', which will be only one of several HUNDRED 'options' people can choose for coverage if they're uninsured or want to change plans. Seems to me it's merely a plot to hand Obama a defeat by any means necessary.

The GOP are disingenuous at best by throwing around words like "government run health care" and "death panels". Estimates are only 5-7% of Americans would participate in a public 'option'.

Are you aware the average cost of a health insurance plan for employers today is slightly over $12,000 a year - and premiums are rising at a rate of 12-15% a year? The competition a public option would create is very needed, and the ONLY way to keep the exponential rise in insurance premiums from eating America alive.

I don't get the GOP's resistance to a public 'option', which will be only one of several HUNDRED 'options' people can choose for coverage if they're uninsured or want to change plans.

Because it only gives the ILLUSION of having choice. In reality, the same people offering the plan also writes the laws that restrict the competition for the government plan.

You already see something similar in other industries, such as computer operating systems. Sure there are lots of operating systems available, however because of the dominant position of ONE company, your other choices don't let you run most of the programs out there easily if at all. In addition, that one company sits on so many of the boards that make the standards that they are set to influence things to give their product an unfair edge. The government is even more dangerous to real choice than that company is. Ultimately that company can't decide down the road to change the rules once again to force everyone to buy from it. The government however, has shown that it will do this when given the chance. I prefer not to give them that chance.

The competition a public option would create is very needed.

Agreed. A non-government co-op would do this. The government shouldn't be running business. As I said, the have a uniquely unfair advantage over THEIR competitors: they make the rules the competition has to live by.

By the way... if you think I am bullshitting about the government changing the rules later after you give them a foot in the door on this, just remember what I showed you in my #64 post:

The Democrats are the ones responsible for our current health care system as it is.... now they talk about how shitty it is and want to give the government more control.

In addition, Obama is already on record a few years back basically outlining that public option would simply be a stepping stone to single payer.

Maybe you like monopolies... but I don't. Especially when the ones holding the monopoly are the rule makers and already have too much control in other aspects of my life.

Moomanfl

Health insurance companies change the rules all the time! They SAY you're insured if you pay the premium. Don't get sick! They deny treatment thousands of times a day - to people who PAID their premiums. Regulation is the ONLY means of keeping any industry honest.

I don't trust the GOP as far as I can throw them. Medicare Part D was their baby all alone. What did they do? Lie about the cost and make it illegal to negotiate prices. Wow, if that's 'fiscal discipline' give me the opposite.

I think they ran up such massive debt so nothing of substance could be done for the American people. Big business sure profited.

Too bad the GOP can't debate health reform without the usual phony rhetoric, lies, deception, and jingosim they usually employ.

By the way, an extensive poll last month showed 69% of Americans are FOR a public option.

Jingoism? Methinks doest useth the Liberal lexicon too much..

Jingoism is the whole white man wage war for country dealy.. nothing to do with health insurance

We're coming

They SAY you're insured if you pay the premium. Don't get sick! They deny treatment thousands of times a day - to people who PAID their premiums.

You have the Democrats to thank for that. They are the ones that came up with the industry as we know it today with the 1973 Health Maintenance Organizations (HMO) Act authored by Sen. Ted Kennedy.

Regulation is the ONLY means of keeping any industry honest.

Agreed. However, simply regulating isn't what the government is proposing at this time so your argument is irrelevant.

I don't trust the GOP as far as I can throw them.

So instead you would trust the ones that created the current system you think is so fucked up to make a new system and not fuck that up as well? What do they say the definition of insanity is?

Besides, you have a good false dichotomy going there. You don't trust the GOP so the Democrats must be better? Why do they have to be any better?

Personally I don't trust either one of them... with good reason too.

Hmmm

I read the HMO act initiated in what is now the Dept of HHS during the Nixon Administration, and that they asked Kennedy to draw up the legislation, since he was the chair of the committee to do it.

It's inception was conceived as a way of providing equal access to health care by employees.

The Frist family were who took what was a good idea and turned it into a money machine, buying up every local and regional non-profit hospital they could and turning them into money machines.

We may disagree on how to fix the health care problem and dampen it's rise in cost year to year, but I'm sure we agree we need to do some serious overhaul.

I read the HMO act initiated in what is now the Dept of HHS during the Nixon Administration

Then you read wrong. The idea had already been bandied about by Democrats for years. Nixon is simply the one that finally approved it (I am not a Nixon fan either). The idea however the Nixon was somehow responsible and Kennedy was only the ghost writer is a pathetic misrepresentation of the truth.

It's inception was conceived as a way of providing equal access to health care by employees.

Only after stacking the deck against individual plans by the 1942 law that gave tax deductions for health insurance plans only to employers rather than employees. Then later (1965) the Democrats produce Medicare which was signed into Law by Lyndon Johnson. This had the ultimate effect of removing a whole class of people from the health insurance industry driving up costs for the individual. Incidentally it also gave the government its first real foothold in the insurance industry.

The reason HMO's were created were to drive out individual insurance plans. This was a goal ever since 1945 when Truman first called for a nationalized health care program starting the debate. To that end, the HMO Act has been VERY successful.

Of course now the next phase has started: Democrats complaining about the system they pushed for for years and designed simply to make a new system that gives them even more control.

I'll have to pick up a copy of GOP history written by them to see how they rewrote events. What's the title? lol

I'll have to pick up a copy of GOP history written by them to see how they rewrote events. What's the title? lol

It is called The Congressional Record. Try the Library of Congress... they might be able to supply a copy.

#71 | Posted by Timex

You really need to get a life.

"Until when? Get with it, Obama -- get with it, brother," Chavez said.

That so many Americans oppose health care for all Americans shows what a shithead nation we have become---or have always been.

why insist in living in a shithead nation like america?if i felt that way my ass would be gone to cuba or some other paradise.

That so many Americans oppose health care for all Americans shows what a shithead nation we have become---

Spoken by someone who bought into the "40 million uninsured" strawman.
This is a crushing humiliating defeat for Obama.
Maybe he will take a lesson from this.

Damn, this is great news.

Too bad the GOP can't debate health reform without the usual phony rhetoric, lies, deception, and jingosim they usually employ.

it works.

By the way, an extensive poll last month showed 69% of Americans are FOR a public option.

Good point. Although you won't get that number today in a poll.

But it is a good reminder that before details of THIS plan came out, folks were and still are interested in some sort of solution.

They need to simplify the public option bill so that Americans will support it.

Common Sense 2
Libtards 0

First end of life counseling, now the public option! The town halls are working! God bless this Republic!

#78 A dreamer.

The details will emerge in a few weeks, and since there is no real substitute for a public option (the proposed compromise is unproven) and since the term "public option" has been denigrated, they may have to either call it something else or tell Libs that this is an "incremental" approach.

What a lot of Cons like to forget is that although the disapproval of the current Bills may come mostly from their side, a lot of Dems disapprove of the current Bills because they are not single-payer, which most Americans do approve of.

#81 BIBS R BELOW

End of life counseling!?! Can't have that! !Que terrible!

- end of life counseling

Yes, it's terrible that a Bill would include payment to a doctor for this counseling that most people now have to pay for out of their pocket if it is not covered in their plan.

I would like to think that most of you aren't stupid enough to believe the hype about this Birther-like paranoia, but then.... that's rather optimistic.

#82 Corkster

Right on. Single payer NOW.

a lot of Dems disapprove of the current Bills because they are not single-payer, which most Americans do approve of.

#82 | Posted by Corky at 2009-08-17 09:31 AM | Reply | Flag: Ralph Nader impersonation

a lot of Dems disapprove of the current Bills because they are not single-payer, which most Americans do approve of.

speaking of dreaming.......

"Yes, it's terrible that a Bill would include payment to a doctor for this counseling that most people now have to pay for out of their pocket if it is not covered in their plan." - Cocky

No, what's terrible is that the Federal Government is trashing the Constitution and granting itself powers that the Founders never intended. This was a power-grab, pure and simple. Real Americans see it for what it is, and rejected it.

because they are not single-payer, which most Americans do approve of.

they do? then why not just propose that?

Another Poll Shows Majority Support for Single-Payer

A New York Times/CBS News poll released last week shows, yet again, that the majority of Americans support national health insurance.

The poll, which compares answers to the same questions from 30 years ago, finds that, "59% [of Americans] say the government should provide national health insurance, including 49% who say such insurance should cover all medical problems."

Only 32% think that insurance should be left to private enterprise.

Republicans would let the poor die in the streets if they ever got to 60. If jak wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth he would starve. He has no marketable skills and being the town idiot won't pay for much.

#54 | Posted by jackass
-------------
and Obama will have them freezing to death over Crap and Tax so what's your fucking point?

Lonnie

#88 | Ideologies have a particular and peculiar way of viewing the universe. After they defeat health care, the Fed Reserve and the IRS are next.

Give me a fucking break!

Ideologies = Ideologues (damn spellchecker!)

-Ralph Nader impersonation

Dammit! I was doing Howard Dean!

YEEEEEHHAAAAAWW!!

then why not just propose that?
#89 | Posted by eberly

Fear.

Hey Cocky -

Do you know the difference between Nation Health Insurance and a Single-Payer system??????

"Dammit! I was doing Howard Dean!"

Saw him interviewed by David Broncaccio or Bill Moyers Friday. Good interview.

You have to ask yourself why Democrats hate the system they designed (HMO Act of 1973) and now want to scrap it for a system with much more government control.

Could it possibly be that this was their intention all along? Could I possibly be that this is their modus operandi (ie. slowly rewrite the national system one toe-hold at a time)?

Well considering Obama was already on record stating that he was a "proponent of single-payer" but that they wouldn't be able to start out that way.... that it would take 15 to 20 years to get there. Yeah. I think so.

Basically the Dems M.O. is to give the nation the equivalent of the "Don't worry, Baby! I will only put the tip in!" argument. Incidentally, only the extremely naive or those already wanting to get fucked will fall for it.

Yeah, I do.

And here are more polls taken at the same time that say the same thing.

Western PA Coalition for Single-Payer Healthcare

Yeah... no agenda there.

Isn't this sort of like accepting a survey by Exxon that says most people don't believe in Global Warming?

#97 Dean has an excellent book out on this issue, and although some of his policies are different, he strongly backs the plan the Pres sent to Congress.

Which the Pres should now shove down their throats instead of spoon-feeding the GOP babies.

#100

Musta missed the polls from Time Magazine, Grove Insight Opinion Research, New York Times/CBS News Poll, Quinnipiac Poll in PA, FL, OH 9. Annals of Internal Medicine, Study of Physician Support of National Health Insurance Poll, & AP - Yahoo News.

#101

Hi Corkster!

I saw McCain on TV this morning.

I don't think Obama should be shoving anything down the throats of republicans. He needs to make the average American comfortable with this plan.

Personally, I object to the abortion aspect of it. Most of the time it is an elective procedure and should NOT be covered.

As always, for the sake of argument this does not include health risks to the woman.

The health reform plan proposed by President Obama during his campaign assures that consumers can keep the private health insurance plans that they already have. That is important, because it addresses one of the biggest concerns voters have about health care reform.

But voters also want a plan that gives them a choice not only of private health insurance plans - but a public health insurance plan as well. In fact a new poll by Lake Research found that a whopping 73% of voters want everyone to have a choice of private health insurance or a public health insurance plan while only 15% want everyone to have private insurance.

Corky,

You already avoided a question posed a few posts back, so I will ask it again:

If so many people support single-payer, why haven't the Dems introduced a Bill for it? Why did Barack Obama, an admitted proponent of single-payer, introduce his own Bill for it? Why did he feel it would have to be done by public option first, and worked into over 15 to 20 years?

Could it possibly be that public support isn't as great as some people want us to believe? Or maybe it is that if they were to actually put the details of what they want in an actual Bill the public outcry would forever wipe this issue out and kill it for good? Maybe the only way to do it is to do it in bits and pieces so you are never looking at the big picture.

Personally, I object to the abortion aspect of it. Most of the time it is an elective procedure and should NOT be covered.

As always, for the sake of argument this does not include health risks to the woman.

You and I agree here 100% it seems, Lisa.

Hopefully Obama gained some experience from this. Next time, don't put a short timeframe on a bill of this magnitude, Mr. President. Trust in politicians these days isn't exactly at an all time high.

The health reform plan proposed by President Obama during his campaign assures that consumers can keep the private health insurance plans that they already have.

Yes, and I am free to run any operating system on my computer I want. However because of the massive dominance by the one OS, and the tight control it has on certain technologies, if I want to run any real meaningful software I need to run Windows.

The fact is, the government-run option will virtually kill competition all while saying it is your choice. It is hard to compete when the one you are competing against is the one that makes the rules of the game and can pretty much change them at will.

So spare me the discredited argument that we can keep our private insurance.

Cockeye -

From Rassmussen:

"Thirty-two percent (32%) of voters nationwide favor a single-payer health care system where the federal government provides coverage for everyone. A Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 57% are opposed to a single-payer plan.

Fifty-two percent (52%) believe such a system would lead to a lower quality of care while 13% believe care would improve. Twenty-seven percent (27%) think that the quality of care would remain about the same.

Forty-five percent (45%) also say a single-payer system would lead to higher health care costs while 24% think lower costs would result. Nineteen percent (19%) think prices would remain about the same."

-Could it possibly be that public support isn't as great as some people want us to believe?

As you would know if you actually fol owed this issue, even Hillary Clinton said in the primary that single-payer was off the table because the industries involved would kill it in it's crib.

Those industries knew 2 years ago that there would be a Dem in the WH this time, considering the laughable competition, and that's why they saw the writing on the wall back then and got on board before the train left the station without them.

I hope you are just pretending ignorance.

One last thing on that post:

The health reform plan proposed by President Obama during his campaign assures that consumers can keep the private health insurance plans that they already have. That is important, because it addresses one of the biggest concerns voters have about health care reform.

Now... maybe you can explain what looks like a big contradiction.

Didn't you just say that the large majority support single-payer for everyone? You know.... Medicare for all!

Why yes... I think you did.

Now how can BOTH be true? Voters are concerned they would lose their current insurance, but WANT their insurance replaced?

even Hillary Clinton said in the primary that single-payer was off the table because the industries involved would kill it in it's crib.

Which is transparent bullshit and demagoguery. The gap in that logic is a mile wide:

How could the insurance industry kill it if the vast majority of voters are for it?

Rassmussen = GOP owned and operated.

#113 Slept thru 1993.

Rassmussen = GOP owned and operated.

Keep telling yourself that.

"How could the insurance industry kill it if the vast majority of voters are for it?"

Naive flag.

#115 | Posted by Corky at 2009-08-17 10:18 AM | Reply | Flag: Can't explain contradictions so attacks the messenger

#117 | Posted by nullifidian at 2009-08-17 10:20 AM | Reply | Flag: Idiot that didn't have a better argument

#112 Can hold only one thought at a time.

Of course, a true public option would be less expensive and possibly more popular than status quo industry ins, even though the industry will have been reformed to include things like portability and pre-existing conditions.

Which is why in all the Bills there are tax incentives and mandates to prevent a huge exodus to what could be a more popular program.

But GOPhers like yourself want to limit choice, eh?

#118 Still can't read poll sources due to Messenger Envy.

But GOPhers like yourself want to limit choice, eh?

Hahahaha... You say I can only hold one thought at a time, yet you ignore anything you can't answer, like the post above where I explain exactly why this plan would not offer real choice in practice.

Of course, a true public option would be less expensive

So... is this plan a "true public option" or not? After all the CBO directly contradicts your assertions about it being less expensive.

If there is no public option, which is already a much watered-down version of single-payer, then what we will have, as Howard Dean says, can be called health insurance industry reform, but not health care reform.

IF we start mandating universal coverage without a public option, ie: requiring everyone to purchase an industry plan, which is what the industry is looking at, then it will be no real health care reform at all.

With a good public option program as a choice, there really doesn't need to be a mandate, because it will be very popular at it's price.

#124 Still doesn't get the difference between a source article and a source poll.

-We don't need health CARE reform

Enjoys being 37th in modern health care outcomes while paying the #1 dollar amount for it.

Also enjoys being industry tool.

#129 Banter, like brain, still stuck in 3rd grade mode. Try Control, Alt, Delete.

-a governement takeover

Also believes in unicorns, tooth fairy, and other scary monsters.

"#129 Banter, like brain, still stuck in 3rd grade mode."

"Also believes in unicorns, tooth fairy, and other scary monsters."

This is too easy.

With a good public option program as a choice, there really doesn't need to be a mandate, because it will be very popular at it's price.

You know the price?

source?

Enjoys being 37th in modern health care outcomes while paying the #1 dollar amount for it.

honest question......do you believe that we will either move down from #1 or move up from 37th with any reform plan?

This is too easy.

#133 |

Has no retort.

#134

Health Care Reform-The Public Option: The Only Way to "Bend the Cost Curve"

This plan would not enroll everybody. And not even most everybody. Many would still find it too expensive. But it would be cheaper for many as well. And many would actually enroll. And their enrollment would reduce the demand for private insurance. Since reducing demand for a product causes the price to fall, this would reduce private insurance prices. Through such competition, the price of private insurance coverage would fall.

Thus the public option would accomplish at least one health care reform goal.

#135 Pretty obviously, yes. That is the point, after all.

Enjoys being 37th in modern health care outcomes while paying the #1 dollar amount for it.

Also enjoys being industry tool.

#128 | Posted by Corky at 2009-08-17 10:39 AM

Corky demonstrates how powned he is if he thinks there are 37 other countries with more 'modern health care' than US. And he ignores the high cost of litigation protection and an aging population if he thinks ObamaCare will lower the cost of health care in US. Well over 90% of US citizens are covered and a good percentage of those that are not, choose not to be covered. Why will ObamaCare cost over 1 trillion in 10 years to cover 5% of US citizens.

Why is Corky a dumbass?

#138 Can't read WHO statistics.

Has no clue that litigation costs are less than 1 per cent of total HC costs, not a driving factor.

But is well loved by an insurance industry who pays nothing for his support and plans to cancel his coverage the first time he really needs it.

Who's the dumbass?

Many would still find it too expensive.

I'll wait till I see the price.

But it would be cheaper for many as well. And many would actually enroll. And their enrollment would reduce the demand for private insurance. Since reducing demand for a product causes the price to fall, this would reduce private insurance prices. Through such competition, the price of private insurance coverage would fall.

Actually this theory is meaningless until we get a feel for exactly what the health of the folks who want to enroll in some public option is.

Meaning, based on the price, coverages etc, we won't know who will want this option. Its kind of like the "Chicken vs the egg".

I suspect that the most interested folks in this plan are people who are insured and are paying through the nose (because they are old or unhealthy) and folks who are not insured (who are old and/or unhealthy)

Health Care: Americans Spend More, Die Earlier

US spends 16% of GDP on healthcare; folks in US live on average 78.1 years. France spends 11% of GDP on healthcare; folks in France live on average 81.0 years. UK expends 8.4% of GDP on healthcare; folks in UK live on average 79.1 years. Singapore spends 3.4% of GDP on healthcare; folks in Singapore live on average 79.4 years.

Howard Dean On Public Option: "You Can't Really Do Health Reform Without It"

Dean urged the Obama administration to stand by statements made early on in the debate in which it steadfastly insisted that such a public option was indispensable to genuine change, saying that Medicare and the Veterans Administration are "two very good programs that have been around for a long time."

You can't really do health reform without it," he said. Dean maintained that the health insurance industry has "put enormous pressure on patients and doctors" in recent years.

He called a direct government role "the entirety of health care reform. It isn't the entirety of insurance reform ... We shouldn't spend $60 billion a year subsidizing the insurance industry."

"Dean also said he doesn't foresee any Republican support for a public option. "I don't think the Republicans are interested and in order to have a bipartisan bill, you've got to have both sides interested," he said."

"Rep. Anthony Weiner, D-N.Y., who is co-chairman of the Middle Class Caucus, said that "leaving private insurance companies the job of controlling the costs of health care is like making a pyromaniac the fire chief."

excerpts

SIBLELLIus said that it was not essential to reform on sunday..

so who are some of you here to DARE QUESTION her..

doesnt that make you a KOOK and a member of some unamerican mob....hee hee...there's that other shoe thing again

BUT HOWEVER>>>ANNOUNCEMENT FROM THE white house

SHE ' mispoke'....oh REAAAAAAAALLLY

so why is it that these smartest fuckers on the planet are always 'mispoken' when they get caught..

AND WAIT>>..here comes another announcement from the white house

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH the media MISUNDERSTOOD her.

oh well of course they did....

fuckin liars

#138 Can't read WHO statistics.
Slickster doesn't give a damn what WHO says. I can produce any statistics to make any point I want. The funniest part is to name the countries WHO claims is above US.

Has no clue that litigation costs are less than 1 per cent of total HC costs, not a driving factor
Corky speads lies and doesn't know he is so misinformed and parroting the DNC talking points to protect the DNC largest donar.

But is well loved by an insurance industry who pays nothing for his support and plans to cancel his coverage the first time he really needs it.
Funny Flag.

Corky is simply a leach on society. He want's everyone else to pay for his lifestyle.

then made an all-out effort for single payer.

#2 | Posted by nullifidian at 2009-08-16 04:12 PM | Reply

sorry to disappoint you sir but just last week he said that he "NEVER SAID" that he supported single payer

of course the clip from 2003 is still there where HE SAYS>.."I support a single payer health care system"
but as we all know by now..he was lieing the other day...that statement from 2003 just had the FAMOUS obama EXPIRATION DATE

fuckin liar

#142 At least tries to sound intelligent.... but a miss is as good as a mile.

Preventative measures are a major part of HC reform in all the proposed bills.

But your gravy and biscuits for breakfast, coke and Mickey D for lunch, and fried Twinkies casserole for dinner aren't helping matters.

Get on a diet!

Without a public option there is no reform.

Only more loopholes for the insurance and pharmaceutical industries.

Business as usual in D.C.

If it goes down like this, it will have an adverse effect on the Dem coattails vote in 2010.

#5 | Posted by silver_ironist at 2009

I disagree...there are plenty of ways these bastards can be regulated and still have REAL competion.
just allowing them to give coverage nationwide would help just like car insurance

and when you say business as usual..you do realize that I may be FORCED to report you to the white house with that sort of information being sent out...LOL..........

how about the SECRET DEALS from the messiah with these BASTARDS who are only after a profit?

All corky does is quote talking points but he accuses everybody who doesn't agree with him of doing the same.

fuckin liar

#146 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2009-08-17 11:20 AM | Reply | Flag: fuckin GRAfititi aRTIST

Bully Pulpit Obama! While I do not agree with you on this issue, you must stop compromising so much and start remember you are the President. Compromise is a good thing, but not to the point of betraying the things you promised. How can we believe anything you say from this point on?

Do you even want a second term?

#145 Thinks other posters are like him, only self-interested. 34102 is where I live. We don't really need anyone else's money, thank you ever so much.

-Slickster doesn't give a damn what WHO says.

Also believes earth is flat and he is good-looking.

Laughable on both counts.

But your gravy and biscuits for breakfast, coke and Mickey D for lunch, and fried Twinkies casserole for dinner aren't helping matters.

Get on a diet!

Agreed 100%.

now then, specifically....how do we address THAT problem? (which I agree is the elephant in the room)

oh, one catch, accomplish this WITHOUT being painted as a socialist/nazi/commie etc...?

#149 | Posted by eberly at 2009-08-17 11:23 AM | Reply | Flag: WAAAAH!

Obama has gone back on so many things he promised, I expect him to be running as a Republican in 2012.

#154 | Posted by Corky at 2009-08-17 11:27 AM | Reply | Flag:all he can post when it isn't a talking point given to her

#153 As mentioned, all the Bills emphasis prevention.

he....her? what are you corky?

Try to pay attention, Eberly Bro.

I'm the guy who kicks your ass every other day.

Obama is a whipped puppy.

He even took his "snitch" email server down, according to the REAL Drudge.

I'm the guy who.......

#159 | Posted by Corky

Thanks it's about time

Obama has gone back on so many things he promised, I expect him to be running as a Republican in 2012.

#155 | Posted by kanrei

It appears you are slightly disappointed with the Community Organizer. Good, serves you right.

#153 As mentioned, all the Bills emphasis prevention.

it can "emphasis prevention" all day long. LOL

we already do that Corky. it gets us nowhere.

more of the same....expect different results.....good idea.

do you really even care about this problem or is it just an obsession with insurance companies that you have?

-Thanks it's about time

Don't get you hopes up.

-we already do that Corky. it gets us nowhere.

No, insurance companies don't do that at all.

WTF. I expect Obama to resign the Presidency any day now.
Honestly.

b/c
he's one of those:

"Well fuck you then, I'm gonna take MY football and go HOME!"

Arrogant snots who have meglomaniac tendencies are always like that.

Grassley Clarifies 'Death Panel' Position

Grassley says he opposes that counseling as written in the House version of the bill, but a spokesman said the senator does not think the House provision would in fact give the government such authority in deciding when and how people die. The House bill allows patients to decide for themselves if they would like such counseling.

It appears you are slightly disappointed with the Community Organizer. Good, serves you right.

#162 | Posted by wisgod at 2009-08-17 11:41 AM |

I still would vote for him today over McLame/Plain.

Yep, insurance industry greed, GNOP lies, and wingnut gullibility about covers it.

I get it. you are obsessed.

No, insurance companies don't do that at all.

I didn't mean insurance companies.

but since you mentioned it, I do get a flyer in my paycheck everymonth mentioning healthy lifestyle tips that comes from my insurance provider.

thanks for reminding me of that.

And Wissy would still vote for Julio Iglesias.

-healthy lifestyle tips that comes from my insurance provider.

Easy mark.

either a one sentence insult or a talking point written for him.

pathetic.

Seriously, how much to you think our horrible healthy lifestyles contribute to this problem versus insurance industry?

You have no argument from me that the insurance industry is a signifant part of the problem.

My position is that if there is so much ineffeciency and profit in private insurance, then why is the solution coming from the same companies who are so full of administration and profit?

Is Obama going to make them more effecient?

less administration.... less profit??????

fuckin liar

#146 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2009-08-17 11:20 AM | Reply | Flag: fuckin GRAfititi aRTIST

#150 | Posted by nullifidian at 2009-08

if telling the truth is grafititi to you then
IM GUILTY.........

heres some more from the fuckin liar

GOVT accountability office says some stimulus money is being given to entities that dont qualify and some sites are showing "pavement projects' which dont qualify are getting millions...
first question of course is just what makes a project a "pavement' one but that doesnt change the fact if its not eligible for tax money
there is a PAYBACK somewhere in there you can count on...

and the biggest bullshit statement was from town hall last week where he called some dissentors as 'dishonest' ..well I guess a fuckin liar should know one when he sees one...

Heres another one

"my intent is not to vilify insurance companies"

oh REALLY mister president..

I guess its not a lie since he cant 'vilify' something that he wants to GET RID OF........
as his statement from 2003 proves

People only speak of "intent" when their plans go horribly astray. That is why the path to Hell is paved with good intentions.

-Is Obama going to make them more effecient?

less administration.... less profit??????

#172 | Posted by eberly

A little real competition from a public option plan will do that.

We have got to have the public option or else the greedy leeches win. The economy simply can't stand more years of 16% of GDP flowing into health care.
You nit wits who cheer for the insurance companies' profits must own stock in them or something, why else would anyone want to continue watching health care insurance prices rise at twice the rate of inflation and with 30% going to profit, high CEO and executive pay and advertising.
Why would anyone defend that???

I still would vote for him today over McLame/Plain.

#168 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-08-17 11:45 AM

A little real competition from a public option plan will do that.

what? the public option will come from the same companies.

We have got to have the public option or else the greedy leeches win.

if the government was going to author it's own policy and didn't rely on any private carrier for providing any coverage then at least there would be some grounds for that.

Interesting that Kanrei buys into the self-fulfilling prophecy that we only have 2 choices for president, then whines when his binary decision disappoints him.

I actually mourn the fact that we have only two choices and have sworn of the two major parties as of Obama. I am constantly attacked here for being "middle of the road wishy washy non-committal wants to be liked by everyone." I did not see one real choice in the 2008 candidates, so I went with Obama. I still feel I picked the best of a losing lot. I am eager to vote third party once they give a real candidate.

What would qualify as a "real candidate" in your opinion?

We have got to have the public option or else the greedy leeches win. The economy simply can't stand more years of 16% of GDP flowing into health care.
You nit wits who cheer for the insurance companies' profits must own stock in them or something, why else would anyone want to continue watching health care insurance prices rise at twice the rate of inflation and with 30% going to profit, high CEO and executive pay and advertising.
Why would anyone defend that???

#177 | Posted by danni

I haven't got time to be angry about all that.
I am too steamed over Obama signalling that he is going to turn his back on 50 MILLION UNINSURED

LOL

What would qualify as a "real candidate" in your opinion?

#181 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2009-08-17 12:39 PM

I must defer to I believe it was Justice Souter when asked to define pornography- I don't know what it is, but I know it when I see it. I felt motivated to vote for Clinton in 92, but I have been voting against people since and would love to vote FOR someone again.

The bottom line here is that the Dems quit a position over public opinion....

This administration didn't have the Balls to stick to a position it stated was so important. But when it looked like it was unpopular and would cost VOTES they put it away for another day.

If Bush had been as gutless we would have Saddam in power and Osama would be living on secand avenue in the east village by now.

It takes a tough person to be the President... Someone who will stick to their convictions no matter what... This administration failed that test...

This administration didn't have the Balls to stick to a position it stated was so important. But when it looked like it was unpopular and would cost VOTES they put it away for another day.

Not really IMHO. They suddenly remembered there is an election in 2010 and, if they solved Healthcare too quickly, would lose a good wedge issue.

-the Dems quit a position over public opinion

Not yet.

Drudge and the AP just got ahead of themselves.

Why do we need to spend billions and reform healthcare for a mere 40 some million, or less depending on where you get your #'s. Take out illegals, temp lapse in insurance etcand how many are left. SO we have a few million and we want to spend billinos to insure them when its a privledge not a right to begin with. So we have over 300 million in the US, and we're doing this for a couple million at the cost of billions. Fucking idiots. Reform means an apsrin is not 10$ at a hospital, not paying for millions to get insurance when it's a privlidge anyway/.

They suddenly remembered there is an election in 2010

Is it me or wasn't that exactly what I said....

My entire point is that they don't give a damn about your health care issues... It's just another trick to get VOTES

All the while the left just knods and smiles.....

Bash,
We didn't say the same thing. You said it was due to a lack of balls and facing an unpopular crowd. I said it was due to the realization that solving it too quickly would get rid of a good wedge issue. You claim cowardice where I say "you don't kill the goose that laid the golden eggs" is more their train of thought.

Obama should Hire Snoop Dog to explain the whole thing to the public....

" If your bill will cost you votes.... Drop it like it's hot... Drop it like it's hot....

I say "you don't kill the goose that laid the golden eggs" is more their train of thought.

You don't have a problem with that? You don't feel as though you have been manipulated like a good little puppet?

My point was that they are more interested in getting VOTES when they need them than your health... And Yess they Don't have the Balls to risk losing an election over such an important issue....

How many people will die because they didn't get healthcare between now and 2012?

We A hell of a lot more than war deaths in Iraq.... Can we charge this criminal in the White House with their murders?

I say Impeach the man now....

So the amateur hour at the WH continues. Will they debunk this lie on their Website? Like the AARP endorsement? Or does the Admin. get a pass when they mislead?

YO

Bama!

Yo bitch I want lotsa syrup on them WAFFLES.

you know, the way you is WAFFLING on public health care option, you best be servin me some of them WAFFLES and your shit better be all tied up in a red kerchief on yo head like fuckin aint Jemima an shit.

"your shit better be all tied up in a red kerchief on yo head like fuckin aint Jemima an shit."

Let's keep this post for the next time Republicans suggest they would be better for African-Americans.

I'm the guy who kicks your ass every other day.

#159 | Posted by Corky

LOL!! Hahaha...man, talk about living in a fairy tale. You have been getting your ass handed to you on this public option crap and yet you have somehow deemed yourself to be winning! LOL. It doesn't get much better than that.

We have got to have the public option or else the greedy leeches win.-Danni

Looks like the greedy leeches won. Sucks to be you.

#194 | Posted by Danforth

Make me some waffles, bitch !

LOL!! Hahaha...man, talk about living in a fairy tale. You have been getting your ass handed to you on this public option crap and yet you have somehow deemed yourself to be winning! LOL. It doesn't get much better than that.

You must have missed the tightrope act praising Bill and Hilda on the NK debacle. It was a classic "good cop, bad cop" game they played. I won't even mention the African press conference embarrassment.

watching the libs make excuses for this failure Obama is like watching one of those battered women that keep making excuses and coming back to their abuser over and over.......

I'm the guy who kicks your ass every other day.

#159 | Posted by Corky at 2009-08-17 11:33 AM | Reply | Flag (X)Never Seeen A Man/Woman/Novelty Item Go Through A Day So Fast Award

Corky has its head shoved so far up its ass that it's re-using its eyelids.

"Why do we need to spend billions and reform healthcare for a mere 40 some million, or less depending on where you get your #'s."

That is hardly the only reason. The main reason is that health care costs are rising at twice the rate of inflation. How can anyone defend the present system, which actually I notice none of you really can do, when costs are rising so fast. The real truth is most of the opposition to health care reform is coming from those who listen to stupid talking points and believe them, they never investigate anything for themselves and they know very little about the topic.

That is hardly the only reason. The main reason is that health care costs are rising at twice the rate of inflation.

whoa!!! don't you mean "premiums"?

so the greedy bastards win do they

all those white haired people who defeated hitler and made it through the depression are all shills for the insurance companies are they?
I think that would be news to them
and of course the left is furious
that always happens when the PEOPLE SPEAK
and DONT EVEN try and tell me the protestors were put up to all of it from someone else.
thats a sign of ignorance of the issue

people all over the country are telling stories of acorn and seiu people waiting at prostest for news cameras to go on and they then rush and shove the others out of the way...at least they did in montana the other day

and the link by our OWN GREAT AMERICAN NANC right here this morning proves that the left is much more viscious in thier attacks
also just listent to what the lady from the spector town hall the other day is going through

threats and attacks...from the liberal left who is all about diversity of thought....as long as you agree with them anyway

and BE WARY of this president as well

This is what you get when you come up with a half-assed plan that satisfies neither left or right. Obama should've waited until the economy recovered and then made an all-out effort for single payer.

#2 | Posted by nullifidian

Socialism is Socialism is Socialism

Americans are against it.

Always have been.

Social Security is on the chopping block, in my opinion

barry at vfw today

heres hoping they havent forgotten about his idea to have soldiers pay for thier wounds with thier own health insurance because he once WAS REPORTED TO HAVE SAID...that if they volunteer then they should know of the risks.,...

I can prove that last statement but anyone who suggests the first..well who could put it past him...

anyway...hope he got a nice reception from the people who saved us from hitler and tojo and mussolini since we are working to save us from obama....AND RHOM

I CANT prove

shit..whats wrong with this damn keyboard
its got a lot of mistakes in it

The Party is over for the Obama and the Dems:
1) Strike One: Massive Failure of Pork Filled $787 billion stimulus bill.
2) Strike Two: Obama goes against everything he has promised including racial harmony (Obama becomes racist and sides with black professor over white cop), actually supports Bush's warrantless wiretaps exactly opposite campaign promise, actually supports indefinite prison holds for some detainees exactly opposite campaign promise, promised transparency and then protected the secrecy of the $1 trillion tarp program, promised no pork (but supported pork laden Stimulus bill, promised to support average American over corporate American but only gives $70 billion to help American keep their homes but gives $1 trillion to banks through TARP, $200 billion to one company alone -AIG, and tens of billions to the auto companies exactly oppposite of what he promised, promised to close GITMO but it still remains open and even his signing statement left open keeping the prison open, promised to end the wars but his plan leaves up to 50,000 troops in Iraq even after the drawdown and he is actually increasing the war in Afghanistan, criticized Bush for not having war "benchmarks" but failes to have any for Afghanistan as he ramps up that war and the list goes on.
3) Healthcare Bill: Americans don't want socialized medicine.

Strike 3 and you're out Dems!

Libtard Dems going down hard:

"Self-identified conservatives outnumber self-identified liberals in all 50 states of the union, according to the Gallup Poll.

At the same time, more Americans nationwide are saying this year that they are conservative than have made that claim in any of the last four years.

In 2009, 40% percent of respondents in Gallup surveys that have interviewed more than 160,000 Americans have said that they are either "conservative" (31%) or "very conservative" (9%). That is the highest percentage in any year since 2004.

FACT: American Health Care keeps costing more and providing less each year

No wonder the RepuliTards have all been brain mucked to want to change nothing and stay the upward course -> of course, it over rewards the wealthiest!!

The RepubliTarded Nutjobs can actually get physically angry at the dare thought of "bureaucrats controlling" their health care and making decisions for them!

Well, unless those bureaucrats are fat, rich, wealthy leaders of the lobbied Insurance industries
- then they can regulate and decide your coverages all the way to the Bank designed for increasing (their) mass record profits..!!

AND - You Republitards have already proven extremely willing to spend $trillions of American tax dollars on Healthcare costs..!!??

Oh, um only for Iraqis tho
and only for no-bid, looted, hidden, 1200% over-costed contracts to the Bush/Cheney companies and pals

Back THEN y'all called Healthcare "great policy" tho..??

REALITY CHECK:

Year 2000 - Total American Debt $3 Trillion with $500 billion annual in Surplus (could be paid in 6 years)

Year 2009 - Total American Debt $11 Trillion with $1.5 trillion annual Deficit

What the Fuck did we GET for $8 Trillion in 8 Years??
In fact, we all LOST our jobs, savings, economy, freedoms and dignity for that price!??

Why do y'all hate America so much to think that being looted for 100s of Med Centers, Medicine and health care falsely labeled as "war spending" in Iraq is fine but nothing ever to help Americans in any way or you call it "porkulus"..??

So Republitarded and yet so near! - DRB

And you sick, filthy, degenerated RepubliTards keep bending over and begging for MORE..!??

(please daddy LushBong, keep brain fucking us into marching along and bowing to the Bush "have mores")

So Republitarded and yet so near! - DRB

Strike 3 and you're out Dems!

#209 | Posted by utastaff

It ain't over yet

The Dem Party is spliting.

What the Fuck did we GET for $8 Trillion in 8 Years??
In fact, we all LOST our jobs, savings, economy, freedoms and dignity for that price!??

Why do y'all hate America so much to think that being looted for 100s of Med Centers, Medicine and health care falsely labeled as "war spending" in Iraq is fine but nothing ever to help Americans in any way or you call it "porkulus"..??

So Republitarded and yet so near! - DRB

#211 | Posted by gunner

Why don't you ask the Bankers and Wall Street. You, the one's that your Barney Frank Bailed out.

Get educated before going on a rant.

Edie, edju'makate y'all self - yous are dead wrong!

FACTS: BUSH and PAULSON caused the BANK failures and ECONOMIC depression and BANK BAIL OUT all happened on their own Watch!!
(read reasons above without being mind altered on Lush jesus juice first)

So Repulitarded and yet so near! - DRB

As long as we outsource manufacturing to China nothing will get better. That is not rocket science.
Blame the FED, blame whoever but, in reality, it is transnational corporations who have no allegiance to America, though many are based here, who are gutting our economy. That isn't a right or left issue, it is just the truth.
Either we stand up and defend our way of life by protecting our industries and our livlihoods or we don't and if we don't we will be a second or even third world nation faster than anyone now suspects.

...blame whoever...

OK. It's you and me, danni. We keep demanding the cheapest goods possible and the Chinese provide them, and we keep buying them.

As you said, "it ain't rocket science"

Alright!!

Death panels are gone. (18 pages)

And now the single payer option.

That should drop about 200 pages from the bill or it is more??

Yeah, Big O is pissing me off.

You have the American People, Political Capital, you have the Majorities in both houses

Why are you rolling over??

Just because a few deranged NutJob RepubliTards cause a scene??

Big DEAL!! BUSH had near-Riots everywhere he visited every day!

That never stopped the RepubliCROOKS from Looting $Trillions and $Trillions and doing whatever they wanted!!!!

OBAMA - NOW is the Time to STEAM ROLL Back the other direction or you never will!!

Gunner,

The Dems attained a majority not due to message, but due to GOP incompetence.

This is the furthest thing from a 'mandate'.

The Dems are at even more risk right now.

good, it all should be dropped. stop trying to cram this crap down. then need to slow it down. when ever big brother gets involved, it costs more and causes more problems... period!

You have the American People, Political Capital, you have the Majorities in both houses

Why are you rolling over??

Just because a few deranged NutJob RepubliTards cause a scene??

#219 | Posted by gunner

Are you really sure it's just a few?

Are you really sure these people are deranged?

They are Conservative, along with half the country.

If Obama continues with this far-left agenda, more and more people will wake up and say to themselves, oh Lord what have I done!??!

OBAMA - NOW is the Time to STEAM ROLL Back the other direction or you never will!!

#219 | Posted by gunner

What are you talking about?

He has absolutely NO intention of getting the US back to what is was before!

Obama is STEAMROLLING toward Socialism!!!

Bush was bad, I agree with you, but Obama and the far-left Dems in Congress are the wrong crowd!

WAKE UP!!!

good, it all should be dropped. stop trying to cram this crap down. then need to slow it down. when ever big brother gets involved, it costs more and causes more problems... period!

#221 | Posted by noobama

This is true...

The Dems are at even more risk right now.

#220 | Posted by JeffJ at 2009-08-18 07:41 AM |

Looks like this isn't quite dead. Yesterday, Obama threatened to slash defense programs which will effect both parties. No doubt in repsonse to him being left all alone in the recent Healthcare debate. Finally starting to act like a President and see it is not just the repubs to blame. Looks like he is learning how to play the game in DC.

Looks like he is learning how to play the game in DC.

#225 | Posted by crispee_oc

Or, just get it in before the next news cycle.

Or, just get it in before the next news cycle.

Either way it beats the amateur hour show of late.

The Dem Party is spliting.

#213 | Posted by Eddie at 2009-08-17

just this morning on fox

dennis kuccinch took time out from TALKING TO ALIENS FROM another world and being with his good looking wife to tell them that even WITH public option that he does not support the plans being proposed that they dont go far enough but that without a public option, he wont vote for it
now we now how famous people like this of either party are for being liars but the WACKO libs in dem party are also opposing it.
so barry is getting it from both sides
MORE PROOF that the community organizer is showing us just what a horid mistake last november was and that WE WERE RIGHT in telling all of you that he didnt have the experience needed to be chief executive of any large corp much less the entire country

but would you even listen..fuck no...you were too busy attacking our chraracter.....

"Our chracter"?

Well...you ARE crackers!

Lol

Morning Dork boy!!

Lol..my chraracter"

Sorry...retyped it wrong

oh...its ........YOUUUUUUuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
uuuuuu

hee hee

Afk serious question I have been wanting to ask you. What positive things do you feel your career had on society? To me music isn't even really that important. We don't even really need music do we?

I guess you could say that you could live a life without music but I certainly cant imagine one without it..

as far as the study of music, it does a lot of things for students in other areas. for instance, a typical rehearsal of mine would include a lot of reference to some math...I used to have a sign that said 'music is math' because of the various meters and even harmony has a certain mathematical quality.

research has consistantly shown that students in music and even the arts do better than most of those who dont.

there is the discipline involved with practicing and performing as well as being able to function well in a group setting

I use one example even today when doing some clinics

imagine an english class writing on the board a paragraph or even a sentence where each one of the 30 have to write each letter the Exaxt same hieight and at the exact same time and even place a period or puncuation at the exact same weight and cross the t's with the exact same length at the exaxt same time

but in music class we demand that 60 to even more students do just that and more

so there is plenty of justification for music in the schools which I know wasnt your original question but it does speak to it...

also studies have shown that more doctors are music minors or majors than any other subject.....my own of a couple of years ago a perfect example

but there is the aesthetic part as well.....remember that pop music on the radio or ipod is just that ...pop music and pop music throughtout years and years has been around and then vanished which makes people like the beattles and elvis and all even more unique..

all I can say is that when I hear something by mozart...lets say the flute and harp concerto..there is a beauty there that transcends any ideology and geniunly makes me feel good..

and YES I consider mozart to be the voice of God...
and music is one of the first things that dictators control...soviets and nazi's would dismantle church bells and control the artist community because they knew that art gives people hope for a better world and gives people a sense of freedom not many other things can....

a sousa march stirs up emotions either patriotic or of pride
beethoven symphony like the 6th..pastoral...is so beautifull and harsh all at the same time
mahler sym is just as he described them
"a world of its own"...and a world that I get lost in all the time...

and even things such as

sorry got cut off

it can stir your soul and it can heal your soul sometimes at the same time...

and look at the programatic side of it as well..

music has been used to tell stories for centuries and thats not even getting into the same idea that movies use to tell a story
I had a film score class once where we watched a movie without the music track and it was about as bland as you could get and the movie was casablanca......was just two people talking and then the track came in...

imagine the scene in ET where the alien first takes the kid up in the air...that scene would be unimaginable without the genius music of williams..........

so a world without music might be one that you could exist..but exist would be about all that would be happening

and besides...try and "WOO" a woman without some soft and sensual music on...in that case I would have to solely rely on my boyish charm and rugges good looks........

imagine the scene in ET where the alien first takes the kid up in the air...that scene would be unimaginable without the genius music of williams..........

#234 | Posted by afkabl2

Williams made the difference of ET being a classic and just another kid SciFi movie.

I wonder if the WH is going to blame this on the 'Sinister Conspiracy Theories's'...

In materials provided to CBS News on Monday, AARP said 60,000 citizens have left its membership rolls in protest over its general support for the government-run health care plan.

AARP spokesman Drew Nannis said it is not unusual for the group to lose members when it advocates controversial positions on issues.

"We take stands on issues that are contentious, it's part of what we do," Nannis said. "And because we have so many members we'll always have a small percentage that disagree with us so strongly they feel they need to cancel membership."

But its support has gone beyond that, as AARP hosted an event for Obama and the bills present a host of concerns about rationing and assisted suicide.

Afk makes some good arguments but I believe Music and Art education should be removed from the public school system along with PE and anything else that isn't going to help us in the global marketplace. If we get the school day to 3 hours we could reduce classroom size by splitting classes in 2. School lunches could also be eliminated. 1 hour of English. 1 hour Math. 1 hour Science. All other classes could be scrapped.

I believe Music and Art education should be removed from the public school system along with PE and anything else that isn't going to help us in the global marketplace I believe Music and Art education should be removed from the public school system along with PE and anything else that isn't going to help us in the global marketplace

That is good if you are making cogs for that machine, but I personally value electives as the way to develop humans.

"... but I believe Music and Art education should be removed from the public school system along with PE and anything else that isn't going to help us in the global marketplace..."

#237 | Posted by jackass at 2009-08-18 12:35 PM | Reply | Flag: Doesn't think that music, art and sport are part of the global marketplace.

That is good if you are making cogs for that machine, but I personally value electives as the way to develop humans.

#238 | Posted by kanrei

Development will have to take a backburner. Just think what the savings would do for this country. With all the teachers off the payrolls we might be able to really fund healthcare for all.

Development will have to take a backburner. Just think what the savings would do for this country. With all the teachers off the payrolls we might be able to really fund healthcare for all.

#240 | Posted by jackass at 2009-08-18 12:47 PM | Reply | Flag: oh, being fecesious.

Now they are attempting to Bull Shit us about not knowing how all those people got email from the W.H.

The simple minded followers..... Watch them explain away how the W. H. got ahold of private email account info.... Talk about Big Brother...

They stole account info using an email harvister appliction... Standard Cheap Second Rate HACK!

The President of the United States reduced to E-mail Bombing unsuspecting citizens..... Shame on you !

Now his facial expresions are looking a little long this week.... Must suck getting it from both sides at the same time.....

Afk makes some good arguments but I believe Music and Art education should be removed from the public school system along with PE and anything else that isn't going to help us in the global marketplace. If we get the school day to 3 hours we could reduce classroom size by splitting classes in 2. School lunches could also be eliminated. 1 hour of English. 1 hour Math. 1 hour Science. All other classes could be scrapped.

#230 | Posted by jackass at 2009-08

fair enough...but what will you have when you are done..
mindless robots.........
and remember,,,,if you know anything about the modern marching band there is a reason why it subs for pe in high school......no amount of dodge ball can take the place of a good marching band and its present 'corps style' marching,....

and as I said...in my lessons I would touch on history and math and even science talking about a lot of acoustical properties of the instrument and such....

there is much more to public school music besides what you see or hear in the movies or tv....

AGAIN...studies consistantly show that music students do better than majority who arent
mozart effect is one of those studies...

and what about 'all work and no play make jack a dull boy;'

you would be overrun with nerds...you wouldnt want THAT would you.........

THE BATTLE AGAINST OBAMA CARE IS NOW OVER

or it will be soon...
why?

just open the link...

JOE IS ON THE JOB!!!!

Look at the frigging Left...

They have the White House......

They have the Senate.......

They have congress

They now have the supreme court.......

And.... In typical fasion.... They're on the run....... Running like rats caught in a spotlight!

Thank You Mr. Obama.....

Priceless! :-)

THE BATTLE AGAINST OBAMA CARE IS NOW OVER

Don't believe that shit for a minute.

These fucking socialist maggots have been waiting forever to do this to our country, and they're not about to roll over.

This is much, much bigger than "health care", so don't take your eye off the ball for even a second.

The angrier the RepubliTards get, the better!!

Yes - Dems have all the Power and you are being more angered each day because....

PRESIDENT OBAMA fixed the RECESSION in only a FEW MONTHS after BUSH took 8 years to fully destroy the American Economy!!

AMAZING GREAT PRESIDENT OBAMA!!!

See what can happen with only ONE FUCKING BILL designed to help REAL and ACTUAL AMERICANS..!!???

Instead of the RepubliCON 8 years of Non-Stop Welfare for Wealthy, Wars, Looting $11 trillion and the full assault on the American People to steal their JOBS, their SAVINGS, their ECONOMY and their FUTURES!!

DARE ANY REPUBLI-NUTJOB TO NAME JUST ONE BUSH BILL AFTER 8 YEARS and $11 TRILLION AMERICAN TAXPAYER DOLLERS EVER DESIGNED TO DIRECTLY HELP AMERICANS...!!?????

Y'alls are so FUCKING STUPID that you were easily fooled (as always) even AFTER Bush obviously destroyed the Country and Economy
- You RepubliTARDS actually FOUGHT AGAINST and REFUSED the long overdue BILL to actually HELP AMERICANS (you) calling it all "Porkulus"..??

AMERICAN RE-INVESTMENT ACT!

So extremely RepubliTarded and yet so Near!? - DRB

The American people need to line up obamas, reid, pelosi, that other loud mouth piece of shit with the acne scars and paddle their asses like the whining little immature pieces of shit that they are. Then kick their asses out of government before they force that fucked up obamanation of a health care bill on us. Everything these liberal fucks do, just creates more problems for society.

If they try to pass that fucking disaster, America should storm the White House, congress, and the supreme court. Who the fuck do they think they are? And where the fuck do they think they are?
LET THE BACKLASH BEGIN ! send this marxist scum packing.