He's reading the writing on the wall. He knows this is his final act.

Since Obama's plan won't even go into effect for a few years, even if it did pass and he lost, the new Republican POTUS could reverse the whole mess.

In fact, that would be what propels him or her into office; the election would be a referendum on socialized medicine. Talk about a mandate.

Maybe the Messiah realizes that he isn't up for the job and is trying to set up an exit strategy.

Carter II

Oh Vemy!! you so smatt!

Dimho.

See, Verm's pissed because his "wife's" plumbing change wasn't covered by Aflac.

I think you guys are in for a rude awakening. He still has 3 1/2 years left on his term. Unless he outright murders someone hes not likely to have that cut short.

And america has a relatively short attention span. If healthcare legislation fails, it will not be remembered come election time. Although I'm sure the republican opposistion will blame him for its failure just to get it on the block again.

The best chance you guys have of Obama getting knocked out over healthcare, is if the legislation actually passes.

Well then he should just say f-you to the rtards and forget bipartisan bullshit.

At least he is willing to pay a political price for what he believes is the right thing to do unlike 99% of the politicians in office that are only concerned about raising money and keeping their job.

If healthcare legislation fails, it will not be remembered come election time.

It didn't hurt Clinton.

At least he is willing to pay a political price for what he believes is the right thing to do unlike 99% of the politicians in office that are only concerned about raising money and keeping their job.

I'd like to add to that......I do love the fact that there were/are townhall meetings held where folks could read from the proposed legislation to the legislator about what the language meant and if they could explain it. I'll give these politicians that much credit. Unfortunately it turned ugly too often and those events, rather than the civil discussion, made the news.

"I think you guys are in for a rude awakening."

I posted this because I think the politics of the comment are interesting. Clearly this guy was asked to make this 'disclosure' as a trial balloon, to gauge public reaction.

The Messiah won't say this himself; getting a proxy to do it is a way of disowning the comment if it goes over badly.

Do you think it makes him look courageous or desperate, in a 'take my ball and go home' way?

Unfortunately it turned ugly too often and those events, rather than the civil discussion, made the news.

Yep. Partisan politics as usual.

Obama wants to be a one-termer? Ok, we can arrange for that to happen, no problem.

If healthcare legislation fails, it will not be remembered come election time.

It didn't hurt Clinton.

#7 | Posted by 726

It hurt his party, they lost the House and Senate.

8 | Posted by eberly

Hey eb, im working on our Broker Commission Report right now. Even our Own Management Hates you, we will be Glad when Leeches Like you are No More!

10% of the Group Premiums will be a considerable savings for the good people who sacrifice their hard earned cash in the Effort to be Prepared for the Inevitable. That's 10% they will get to use instead of paying you, for nothing!

You on the other hand will have to go out and find a new meal ticket, wont you!

It didn't hurt Clinton.

#7 | POSTED BY 726 AT 2009-08-14 03:42 PM | REPLY | FLAG

BO's WAY more into this than Clinton ever dared.

It hurt his party, they lost the House and Senate.

#12 | Posted by member2586 at 2009-08-14 04:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

Bill dodged the bullet because he was clever. He let health care be Hillary's project, so when it went down in flames, she took the blame.

Even today Hillary! is still remembered for that; nobody associates it with Bill.

The difference this time is that Obama has made it his signature goal. And now is staking his presidency on it.

As more and more Americans are confronted with the rising costs of health care insurance it is going to cause them to stop and consider what the Rethugs have done if this fails. I know my company told all of us last year that if costs rose again that we would probably have to start paying part of the premium, I will make sure to remind them who to thank for that. I don't think it will fail though, I think in the end it is going to be a better bill than scum bags like Grassley will like.

im working on our Broker Commission Report right now. Even our Own Management Hates you,

I haven't been reading where brokers are making record profits while denying care. Just the carriers.

you proably don't know the difference anyway. Most health insurance that I see has been sold direct and not through brokers anyway. It is insane if someone is paying 10% commission for a broker....that is way way way too much.

we will be Glad when Leeches Like you are No More!

cream always rises to the top, dipshitville.

Perhaps I should consider moving more into the P&C side and get away from health insurance.

Wait!!! I already did that last year!!!!!!

LOL

At least he is willing to pay a political price for what he believes is the right thing to do ...

#6 | Posted by 726 at 2009-08-14 03:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

OK, 726 wants to give his Messiah a Big E for Effort!

After all, it doesn't matter what you accomplish, only that you feel good about yourself.

BTW 726, you are a patsy. If your Messiah truly was willing to pay a price, he would have said this himself. Not ask some Iowa Democrat to 'leak' it during a town hall meeting in the middle of a corn field.

"Obama wants to be a one-termer? Ok, we can arrange for that to happen, no problem."

You Do know You will need more than a few thousand Crazies holding Crayola Crayon Signs to pull that off?
Anyway, time has never been a "republicans" Friend, so it's unlikely that whatever Pro you think you might have will have long dissipated by then!
I think you will need a New Ace up your sleeve!

I know my company told all of us last year that if costs rose again that we would probably have to start paying part of the premium,

#16 | Posted by danni at 2009-08-14 04:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

Oh dear! Danni might actually have to pay for part of her own insurance? Just like most people?

Now it's starting to make sense. Danni has had a free ride for years on the back of her employer and now is scared that it might cost her the price of a Coke each day.

How dare they!

I know my company told all of us last year that if costs rose again that we would probably have to start paying part of the premium,

her employer is a retard for paying all the premium in the first place.

It isn't that hard to believe though, look at who he/she hires......

"It is insane if someone is paying 10% commission for a broker....that is way way way too much."

I've seen some independent brokers save a lot more than that by negotiating with carriers, and playing one off the other. They're hired guns.

"I haven't been reading where brokers are making record profits"

As if that's what I even said!

All I said was the Truth that these slimy "people" sit Between a group/customer and the Insurer and makes up to 10% of the Premiums Paid, for doing Nothing but being a Bloodsucker!
Did that tidbit of Fact bother you?

I think if the average premium payer knew just how much of their premiums go to Industry Ticks (like Brokers) and Marketing rather than actual Care ---- They Would Hate Insures even More than they Do Now!

And I should note that I really like how a very Vocal but Incredibly Juvenile group Like's to Pretend that they have Convinced everyone that the Decades of Resentment Towards Insurers is No More!
Talk About Delusional!

"these slimy "people" sit Between a group/customer and the Insurer "

Because, without an independent broker as a mediator, you could negotiate in a loving, and trusting way with the Insurance company.

"Pretend that they have Convinced everyone that the Decades of Resentment Towards Insurers is No More!"

Geez Reds, make up your fucking minds already

All I said was the Truth that these slimy "people" sit Between a group/customer and the Insurer and makes up to 10% of the Premiums Paid, for doing Nothing but being a Bloodsucker!

The only people I know who pay a commission to a broker are doing it to shop the market for them. It takes a lot of time to get quotes from 4 carriers. You are free to buy direct from a carrier in all places I have seen. nobody is putting a gun to your head.

And, again, 10% is insane.

Me thinks you are another lying liberal making up a story to argue with. I've read enough bullshit sympathy stories related to health care this week.

There are plenty of real ones....no need to make them up.

seriously, who is the carrier, what state?

why would you be so stupid to pay 10%?

I know my company told all of us last year that if costs rose again that we would probably have to start paying part of the premium,
#16 | Posted by danni at 2009-08-14 04:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

Oh the humanity!

I've got a couple of tips for your employer: (1) do make the employees pay part of the premiums; and (2) start monitoring employee internet usage.

They'd probably wind up saving a whole bunch more.

"I've got a couple of tips for your employer: (1) do make the employees pay part of the premiums; and (2) start monitoring employee internet usage."

My employer knows exactly what I do but they also know that I produce more work than any other employee they have adn that is honestly the truth. My job entails a lot of time when the computer is busy processing large documents, so what if I make a post or two, it doesn't effect my work at all and they know it. BTW, I am posting from home right now though I am also still working too.

My employer knows exactly what I do but they also know that I produce more work than any other employee they have adn that is honestly the truth. My job entails a lot of time when the computer is busy processing large documents, so what if I make a post or two, it doesn't effect my work at all and they know it. BTW, I am posting from home right now though I am also still working too.

LOL

Health insurance is much like marijauna laws. We all know both are unnecessary and even cause harm to our society but so many people are involved making money off of the rest of us that it would create a major shock wave to eliminate either. That doesn't make either thing right or good and both cost the country unnecessary billions which is helping to destory the economy. And yes, if you earn your income in health care insurance then you are part of the problem, you create nothing, you drain resources which would be better directed into productive enterprise and you are part of the evil which drops people when they get sick and refuse to insure people who have been sick in the past. If we ever rid ourselves of health insurance I will have no sympathy for anyone involved who ends up unemployed. Blood sucking leeches on society.

#27. Thou doth protest too much. I was largely kidding, but seem to struck some kind of nerve... hmmm...

And the genie said,

"Your one wish is granted."

He is one term, but you know how finicky those genies are. Real Philadelphia lawyers.

Oh dear! Danni might actually have to pay for part of her own insurance? Just like most people?

Now it's starting to make sense. Danni has had a free ride for years on the back of her employer and now is scared that it might cost her the price of a Coke each day.

How dare they!

#20 | Posted by vernon at 2009-08-14 04:56 PM | Reply |

Most people have employer payed insurance.

You've assumed that the end result will be the price of a coke per day, but that is baseless.

"Oh dear! Danni might actually have to pay for part of her own insurance? Just like most people?"

Obviously nit with my employer pays for my health care to induce me to remain with the company. If we had single payer, Medicare for all, he would just pay me more to the same end. NOw, let's think about this for a moment. If I brought home more money and millions of others did the same what would happen to the economy??? Letting insurance companies absorb increases in productivity through rate increases just keeps the economy in permanent recession.

"Thou doth protest too much. I was largely kidding, but seem to struck some kind of nerve... hmmm..."

Yeah cuz you were the first to ever make the same comment. Riiight.

Don't insurance companies provide large reservoirs of investment capital?

Of course with returns on investment down, premiums may increase as ROI won't provide as large a proportion of operating costs. But in a socialized economy, what can you reasonably expect?

If we had single payer, Medicare for all, he would just pay me more to the same end. NOw, let's think about this for a moment. If I brought home more money and millions of others did the same what would happen to the economy??? Letting insurance companies absorb increases in productivity through rate increases just keeps the economy in permanent recession.

#33 | Posted by danni at 2009-08-14 08:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

Because in DanniLand her employer will not pay a crippling tax increase for her 'free' insurance. After all, IT'S FREE and won't cost anything.

So Danni will get all that extra money! Then she can also pay a crippling tax increase for her 'free' insurance! That's brilliant!

Don't insurance companies provide large reservoirs of investment capital?

#35 | Posted by Johnson at 2009-08-14 10:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

That's mostly true for life insurance and to a degree P&C. But health insurance is more of a pass through: as premiums come in claims are paid, so there's less reserves.

Life and property insurance have longer payout times, so there's an opportunity to invest long-term. But it can be a nightmare when there is a big disaster. Like 1991 when Oakland burned nd the Southeast had super hurricanes ... like Andrew.

Insurance companies had to dump so much stock to pay claims that it it had a major affect on the markets.

Most people have employer payed insurance.

You've assumed that the end result will be the price of a coke per day, but that is baseless.

#32 | Posted by KnightHawk at 2009-08-14 08:03 PM

Well lets see, my job offers a single coverage PPO at $65 a month. Divide that by 30 days and you get roughly $2.17 a day. If that isn't the price of a Coke a day it sure isn't much more. I guess the only real question to decide if the analogy fits is whether it it is a 20oz. or 1 liter.

I don't know if Obama will be a 2 term, 1 term (or less than 1 term) president, but I know that if we don't get people who oppose this orgy of spending that has been happening that we will not be the same country at the end of his presidency. And the "change" will not be for the better. To be fair, Bush got a lot of the run-away spending started... but Obama's plans and activities has made things MUCH WORSE.

Obama's "free" health care plan will be the most costly mistake since social security. Its like treating a bad knee by hitting you in the head with a hammer. Doesn't solve the problem but it does take the attention away from your knee.

Yes, there are some problems with the current system. Instead of solving the problems, what we are getting with Obama care is a kick in the balls.

Stop freaking out. It's not the end of the world.

We need a national health-care plan.

We need a national health-care plan.

No... we don't. Especially not one on the scale the Dems want.

Pretty much all the problems with the existing system could be fixed by tweaking and/or fixing what it already in place.

Pretty much all the problems with the existing system could be fixed by tweaking and/or fixing what it already in place.

Too bad the GOP didn't show any responsibility or propensity for doing just that when they had the chance. The report on Medicare is quite specific with the time frame that choices needed to be made and when the decline really kicked in: 2003. This resulted in the "Medicare funding warning" being issued for 2006, 7 and 8. Bush finally recognized the situation in 2008.

Now Obama and a new Congress are trying to do something, and what do we get from the GOP?

"It all can be fixed by tweaking."

You blew your chances.

"Pretty much all the problems with the existing system could be fixed by tweaking and/or fixing what it already in place."

Absolute nonsense.

The intractable macro numbers tell an entirely different story. We're headed from 6 payers per user to closer to 3 payers per user. Unless we can find a way to stem the coming runaway medical inflation, we're doomed financially. It's too late for 'tweaking'.

and now you know that all the rhetoric about america will fall apart if stimulus wasnt passed overnight and cap and trade and now health care..

he knows that the american pubic doenst like all this going on and quite simply he doesnt give a fuck...somewhat like many of you here....

ALSO

more proof that in order to be able to sign anything...they are willing to undo a lot of the things they have talked about

one actuall encourageing comment was that they may even take up TORT REFORM...something that we all should be concerned about as it drives up cost and the man who delivered my son got out of that part of medicine soon after..couldnt afford the insurance.........

If that's the case, at least he will have remained true to his beliefs, which is a lot more than the average politician can boast.

Obama is sinking faster than the Titanic, and so is his fascist new world order bullshit agenda.

The sleeping giant is waking up.

Obama has flipflopped, backpedalled, and explained away every single position he held prior to his nomination, in the months following his nomination. And any Dumbtard who believes health care is any different is delusional. He's a politician, and will say anything.

if he can get free health care for 17 million illegals and then later on legalize them then he will get elected again.that's obamas next big thing that has to be done to save the economy.

Every first-term president should be willing to risk re-election to keep the promises made during the campaign.

Every first-term president should be willing to risk re-election to keep the promises made during the campaign.

Yup, like LBJ strong arming Civil Rights legislation through and thereby losing the south for a generation sometimes the tough choices are still the right choices.

Be Well.

/Outtie
stage left.

Food is our most basic need, even more so than health care. Rather than nationalizing health care at this time, I think we should start by giving everyone in the United States "free" food, and then work our way up to "free" health care.

When the "free food for everyone" program proves to be a rousing success, we could add in "free" shelter and "free" clothing, since those needs are more basic than health care too.

Look at all the homeless with no food, no shelter and no clothing. They're everywhere. You can hardly walk down the street of any major city without having to step over one. Shouldn't we address these more basic needs first?

Any system can be modified or reorganized to a successful resolution... we do not need to start something that will take ????? to implement, that costs ?????? to operate and ?????? to support... and, especially one, that even the 'quarterback' cannot define with any credibility..!!!

Hussein is a 'one termer' weather he likes it or not.

The sooner this lowlife is sent packing, the better.

trying to fix the font

In order for Obama to lose his re-election bid, there has to be a Republican who can beat him. I can't recall a potential GOP field this week since Bob Dole got the party's nomination.

" I can't recall a potential GOP field this week since Bob Dole got the party's nomination."
~RCade

Will you be able to next week?

Er, "weak".

Obama will be one termer and lose the healthcare bill fight. This healthcare is destroying the Democrat party. Not only is this destroying Obama but it is dragging down the entire Democraty party. Why put the party on the line for a bill that most Americans oppose? Only 42% support the President on this issue. It's political suicide. Smart Dems will abandon dumbass Obama just watch. Look at the poll numbers below:

From Rassmussen report for today:
"Overall, 48% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President's performance. Fifty-two percent (52%) disapprove."

We need a national health-care plan.
No... we don't. Especially not one on the scale the Dems want.
Pretty much all the problems with the existing system could be fixed by tweaking and/or fixing what it already in place.

#41 | POSTED BY MOOMANFL

yes we do..It will save over 900M in increased costs over the next 10 years compared to us leaving the system "the same"

I heard a good analogy for this health care solution.

If you had a broken foot, and you walked on it for a few day, it would have problems that were serious.

Now, the repubs want to fix the problem. The dems want to cut it off and replace it with something that is promised to work better.

Be well (and by that, I mean get all the health care you need now... cause if this shit gets passed... the quality of health care in this country will take a nose dive).

The most interesting thing I saw on the linked page was this:

The Hill: Pork-Barrel Spending Increases In 2009
The Hill reports that earmark spending has been on the rise this year. Earmarks added up to $19.9 billion in 2009, compared to $18.3 billion in 2008. Although earmarks were kept out of President Obama's stimulus bill, they nevertheless were put into other spending measures.

Look at that last sentence again.

Hey, Vern. I'd estimate I'm paying the price of two Cokes a day for my health insurance, and that's one-tenth of what the insurance costs. (Yes, I have a great deal with my employer.)

The bigger problem is that ten years ago that same health insurance probably cost a tenth of what it does now. Okay, okay, I made that number up, but there's no question that increases in health insurance far outstrip wage increases. In my system, premiums are projected to rise 2% next year after a 0% increase this year. Sounds great, right? Okay, but increases in the preceding years were something like 8, 9, 7. No, I'm not going to look it up and cite my specific health insurance program's numbers. I'm sure there are readily available numbers on insurance increases all over the Net. So there remain two issues: 1. Our quality of health care for how much money we spend (much argument about that one). 2. The gap between wage increase and premium increase (I've yet to come across any arguments that costs aren't too high, merely differences in how to address that fact).

"I don't know if Obama will be a 2 term, 1 term (or less than 1 term) president, "

Do you really think there's an impeachable offense in this president's actions? Where?

And you know, as I read DR, I think we need a Wayforward Machine. : ) You know, then we could see if any of the myriad predictions have weight.

The usual free market controls do not apply when speaking about health insurance. The only thing that will make paying for it unacceptable is bankruptcy. Even then, that's usually not enough, so the price goes up and up.

Now, the repubs want to fix the problem.

The Repubs had the White House the last eight years and Congress most of that time. I can't recall a single time outside of the McCain campaign that a Republican attempted to reform our health care system.

Nationalized healthcare won't save any money. It's about government control of our health. It's a desire to turn this country into a socialist nation.

"One of the main arguments made by the President and others for investing in health reform now is that it will save the federal government money in the long run by containing costs.

Turns out that may not be the case, according to Doug Elmendorf, director of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.

Answering questions from Democrat Kent Conrad of North Dakota at a hearing of the Senate Budget Committee today, Elmendorf said CBO does not see health care cost savings in either of the partisan Democratic bills currently in Congress."

Obama has written an op-ed piece for today's New York Times about the health-care debate:

Rogers, this isn't about health care reform, it's about a powergrab by a terrorist plant.

This is about the 35 year plan of the Weather Underground coming to fruition.

Wake up.

I can't recall a potential GOP field this week since Bob Dole got the party's nomination.

#56 | Posted by rcade
* * *

Not really a Republican field yet anyhow. Who cares? In January of 2007, who had ever heard of Barack Obama?

Don't count your chickens yet. Then again, it remains to be seen if the Republicans will deserve to win the White House then. For sure, the Dems won't.

Zeitgeist--having us on?

And RIR, I suppose that you have a point about the field being open yet--I mean, the next election is still three years away, but to say no one had ever heard of Obama before 2007 is... odd? disingenuous? Certainly, politics watchers knew who he was. Don't a lot of us (no, not me) here watch politics on a level that would enable us to see the next up-and-comer, the person making a speech similar to Obama's 2004 moment?

So far, I'm rather disappointed by this president. I'm hoping he will do something to counter that. If not, well, I expect the empire will survive the next three or so years and most of us will be here to see what happens next.

Having you on?

Hussein is THE worst president in Americian history, period.

The worst day in American histroy is when this punk bamboozled his way into the presidency.

Hussein is actively destroying the United States, just as his handlers taught him.

You need to wake up and pay attention, I realize you don't even know what I am talking about right now, but you will soon enough.

#63 | Posted by pragmatist at 2009-08-15 11:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

Good post.

There are several factors driving health care inflation, which is why it almost always grows faster than core inflation.

1. The biggest factor is utilization. Consumers are isolated from the costs, so they don't demand better value. The attitudfe is more like:

"What the hell, Blue Cross has to pay for it!"

Others resent that they have to pay for insurance that they rarely use, so come up with all sorts of excuses to go to the doctor. That drives utilization.

Do you know that if you offer to pay cash (or use a credit card) for anything, providers will usually cut the fee by half? It is illegal for them to post their rates, but they can negotiate.

I needed an MRI on my knee one time. The charge was $1,200, and my share was $500 (co-pay, deductible). Because I had been a health care reporter for years I knew enough to offer $450 in cash, and they accepted it.

2. Doctors and hospitals do practice defensive medicine in case of a lawsuit. A friend of mine is the most-sued doctor in the state. Know why?

He's the head of the state's largest pathology practice, so his name appears on every pap smear, blood test, occult test, etc. That means his practice is named in dozens of lawsuits a year, even if the error had nothing to do with a blood screen.

He's never had to pay a settlement, but his legal fees of disposing of these cases cost him about $7,000 per episode. Now multiply that for every other person whose name appears in the patient chart.

3. The unseen burden is the mountain of compliance regulations. Last time I checked the Self-Referral regs were 3,000 pages and growing.

Millions of people spend their days studying and interpreting politicized regulations. This is a huge, non-productive burden.

I know contract lawyers who refer to things like Stark as 'The Health Attorney Full Employment Act."

There's plenty more. That's just a sample of what really happens. It's much more complex than some moron saying that insurance companies are evil.

Well Dudemeysters, this hear 1/2 A-rab 1/2 Irishlander 1/2 Negro ain't goona be preserdent no more after the 2000 and 12 cuz Sarah Barricuder Palin and Michaell Bachsmann dones got that their job lockt reicht on ups fer thems when they gets on the rode to the WHite Power House and gets them down to preserdenting. And then ain't none of thems sochallests gones to have no kinds of hellthy cares. Sarahcuda gones to makes it so ain't no kinds of hellthy cares fer no demoncrats, sochallests, A-Rabs and illegill aleeans. And their goones to be tax cutting to gets this hair USA USA USA going again likes when Roneld Raygun and George VW Bush doned runned this great natyun for the Lord and for the Democracyings and the Constituions. So that their Barrakk Hussayn Obbamma and them demoncrats best jest gives reicht on ups now cuz they ain't goona be's around no mores after the 2012 and then nones of thems sochallesms that gets past is goona count no more. We over to the White Power Tee Partays and Town Hall Meatups goona makes usn's the #1 USA USA USA again and ain't no uses fer them Demoncrats and PMSNBC's to do nothing cuz ain't no stoppin usn's ferum gettin usn's way and making us a WHITE POWER NATION with PALIN & BACHSMANN IN 2012!!!! WHITE POWER!!!!

#75 | Posted by TinyElvis at 2009-08-16 12:50 AM | Reply | Flag: HAS A LANGUAGE ONLY UNDERSTOOD BY HIS IDIOT TWIN

Do you really think there's an impeachable offense in this president's actions? Where?

Impeachable, no. Lame-duck-producing, yes. If this fails BIG time, and he hangs his political capital on this one issue... it could be the albatross around his neck. He could be a lame-duck president even before the 2010 elections. Now, I am not PREDICTING it... I don't believe it is at all likely that the press will turn on him (and they are the only ones holding back the rising tide against this idiocy).

And you know, as I read DR, I think we need a Wayforward Machine. : ) You know, then we could see if any of the myriad predictions have weight.

#64 | Posted by pragmatist

A-men. And if you get one made, we could hop forward a few years and see if health care will be passed, if the health care plan will bankrupt the nation, if more people will die as a result of this, etc. Oh, nice to be able to prevent such things as presidential assassinations as well...

Heck, I would just like to know the winning numbers for the next lottery!

Now, the repubs want to fix the problem.

The Repubs had the White House the last eight years and Congress most of that time. I can't recall a single time outside of the McCain campaign that a Republican attempted to reform our health care system.

#66 | Posted by rcade

So, a recession followed by 9/11 and a couple of wars, as well as fighting with the press for everything he wanted to accomplish, and a medicare drug program (which I also opposed, fyi) wasn't enough? He should have fixed social security and medicaid and pushed thru tort reform while he was at it?

Oh, and do you think that the lefties would have reacted any better to bush trying to reform the health care system than the righties are to obama?

Party before country, don't you know. Left and right both.

Well he's backed off on the public option. Darn. Guess he wasn't willing to be a one-termer after all.

2013 is a long way off when it comes to shit happening in politics. Republicans can make all the predictions they want but as we all know they can be wrong too. If Obama can push this bill through, (and I believe he can after listening to the pathetic lies the right is spreading to block it), I will be in effect for two years before the next election.

There is no way the law would be reversed in two years time simply because the private insurance companies and the AMA drug czars will suddenly be forced to compete fairly. There is no way the public is going to let these swindlers go back to business as usual without a total collapse of the US treasury as a result, and that ain't going to happen as long as the rich get taxed for the cost. They got a lot more then just a couple of years of cash reserves to milk.

#75 | Posted by TinyElvis at 2009-08-16 12:50 AM | Reply | Flag: HAS A LANGUAGE ONLY UNDERSTOOD BY HIS IDIOT TWIN

#76 | Posted by vernon at 2009-08-16 02:37 AM | Reply | Flag: Dorky leberall ain't no kinds of dudemeyster.

VERNON, you ain't no kinds of dudemeyster and you probublee be won of thems hifallutin lebaralls that be ups to them unervercities gettin all kinds of hifalluting over to them fancy colladges. You ain't so danged smarts with you's hifalluting wordmakings and you ain't know kind of duddmeyster no kinds of way. If'n I doned had me a twins that their twin could be jest like Al-Rushboo and me and my twin wood be drinkin usn's the Jesus Juices and poppin the Oxys jest like Al-Rushboo and Me and my twin coold dance arounds like Al-Rushbbo and get all jiggly and smokes usn's some of them fat, round, hard thick ciggarss just like Al-Rushboo. And then whens we be'd all snooggered on up on Oxys, Jesus Juices and fat, hard, long, thick girthy ciggars, usn's coold gets all jiggly and puts on usn's a cupple of thems masks so we coold play Al-Rushboo and Karls Roove and makes some Jiggling funs dancing rounds with me and my twin and usn's masks and thens we be doing sum cumddling and jigglings just likes Al-Rushbboo and Karl Rowve when they gets all snoogered up and hots and sweety. MEGAL DILDOOS!!! ME BE NEEDING ME A TWIN FER MASK PARTAYS!!! WHITE POWER TO THE TOWN HALL MEATUPS!!! AL-RUSHBOO & KARL ROWVE FER JIGGLY WHITE POWER!!!

Elvis, are you pretending to write as if you were a dummy to disguise the fact that this constitutes the limits of your literary capability?

#13 | POSTED BY REDNECKVILLE
"10% of the Group Premiums will be a considerable savings for the good people who sacrifice their hard earned cash in the Effort to be Prepared for the Inevitable. That's 10% they will get to use instead of paying you, for nothing! You on the other hand will have to go out and find a new meal ticket, wont you!"
***

Apparently a lot of folks fail to realize that it IS possible to be both conservative AND compassionate, but they're too busy worshipping their own ideological entrenchment, and (Zeitgeist) running from their imaginary boogey man.

Fair enough, if you don't mind taking a short cut around thinking, but the damn thing is broken, and needs fixing.

Screaming "Hands off my money" and "I want my country back" is NOT conservativism.

Government on all levels does any number of things it's citizens don't always approve of, and any number of things that are absolutely UNnecessary, all of which require an allocation of tax dollars.

Health care reform, in WHATEVER form it takes, is NOT unnecessary. If we can't take care of our own, then any amount of supposed patriotism or conservatism is absolutely worthless, self-serving, and superficial.

Get out of the way if you can't lend a hand.

"Screw socilized medicine keep your hands off my medicare"

Medicare...Medicare...

Isn't that a benefit extended to you by a Democratic President (LBJ) and Congress?

And wasn't it heavily criticized as "socialism" (the phrase used was "Socialized Security"_ when it was a new idea?

Jus' sayin'.

Well little JOHNSON you don't be knowen nothin no kinds of ways. If'n I were a dummy than you woodn't be so jellus of my johnson and gets so jellus of me and how I smokes me's round, hard, long, thick ciggarrs jest likes Al-Rushboo. Do thems lerrns folks them literatiries up to them fancy colladges? CUz me done gots summ of them asspiratings to writes sum scripts fer summ movies and makes them bigs moneys fer writing thems screenplays likes them fellers pays fer over to Hollywood and than get on ups in the screenwritings werld and gets into won of them evel unions likes the WGA and wreicht me them screenplays fer them movies and gets me all kinds of famous jest likes Al-Rushboo and Shawn Hannerty and Glenns Becks and than gets me all kinds of famous and gets me a TV show on ups to the Fox News and tell all you folks jest how reicht I be's about everythang jest like Al-Rushboo and thems folks over to the White Power Tee Partays and Town Hall Meatups. Now I gots to gets me summ lerning onups on that their literararying and sea if'n I kin gets reicht on ups to reichting a screenplay that dun gets boughts on upps by them Hollyweirds fellers.

Zeitgeist, how can you claim someone is the worst president ever only 7 months into his term. Hell, now I don't thnk you're having us on; I think you're a loon. But go on; tell us how terrible the world is. (For the record, I do think Obama ran a smart campaign and pulled a lot of people in through oration and is now not living up to his promises. But then, promises in a campaign are worth about as much as the air they're spoken into. It's called politics. George W Bush never was the compassionate conservative he claimed to be--well, not as president, though maybe as governor of Texas.)

Zeitgeist, how can you claim someone is the worst president ever only 7 months into his term.

I agree. Only history can judge that and he has 3.5 years to go before history can take an objective look. Saying he is the worst president ever is every bit as idiotic as these morons who already have him in office for another term and make outrageous claims like, "He's done amazing things".

And why is this thread center justified?

I don't make claims, I make statements of fact.

Hussein is systematically destroying the country, spending us into massive debt, destroying pride in being American both at home and abroad, socializing every aspect of our lives, demonizing any and all critics, assembling enemy lists, using shadowy left wing organizations to carry out his arm twisting, appointing tax cheats and crooks to cabinet positions, naming the most bizarre collection of freaks ever assembled to unregulated 'czar' positions.

Hussein is engaged in the largest power grab in world history, he has turned over all legislation to the most disgusting and vile human on earth (Nancy Pelosi), Hussein is a race baiter, a divider who has done nothing to bring us together as a nation.

Hussein is a shoot from the hip punk who isn't fit to run a Dollar Store, he is a thin skinned pussy who would rather bash any cable network that doesn't sycophantically worship him then he would confront Americas enemies.

Hussein is the biggest donor to Hamas, his disgusting apology tour was the sickest thing I have ever seen, he has marginalized our allies and he has strengthened our enemies.

And that is just scratching the surface.

Hussein was tutored at the feet of some of the most anti American socialist, communist, and racist people in the country.

He is recreating America using their manifest.

An iffin I was a rantn' and hopen' I was a rantn' good like and I was a rantin' wise like and I was a rantn' like a beorrn agin' christian that saws godn'every turn then idda been a holy remedi iffin I was so and only sayin' iffin, then prolly iffin my choosin' was iffin I was true, I really tink I woodda chose anatha remidi.

So, a recession followed by 9/11 and a couple of wars, as well as fighting with the press for everything he wanted to accomplish, and a medicare drug program (which I also opposed, fyi) wasn't enough? He should have fixed social security and medicaid and pushed thru tort reform while he was at it?

Iraq was his choice.

Medicare drug program, unfunded, put on a credit card, politically influenced program cost (a lie) and the GOP refusing to allow negotiated drug prices? That program? You are kidding.

3 warnings on Medicare moving into financial insolvency - extraordinary for the Board of Trustees to issue such warnings, due to Bush ignoring the dire situation as far back as 2003 (google Medicare 2009 trustee report) and Bush finally decided to try something half-assed in 2008?

Not funding the tax breaks Bush just had to have?

Please. You had your chance. Like so many times in the past it's the Democrats that have to fix it.

Or did the obvious escape you? One of the driving reasons for Obama's health care initiatives is because of Medicare. He's only mentioned it in every town hall and in his speeches on health care reform.

Don't even try and equate the "Party before Country" actions of the Republicans with the Democrats. The Democrats aren't perfect but they're way better at looking out for the American people than the GOP.

1st paragraph should have been italicized and attributed to 1LIBERTARIAN

Zeitgeist, you are only proving you are a loon. I hope you're having fun. Reading your posts from a certain perspective, I get to giggle. So tee hee and good luck being miserable and conspiracy-minded.

Hey, did you know Stanley Kubrick shot the moon landing on a soundstage in Hollywood?

rex is not off base at all. i happen to agree with him. this potus TOLD U.S. what he wanted to do with america - he wants to make it "better" - whatever that means - how do you "better" "best"? he wants the world to "like" u.s. again. who gives a shit if the world likes u.s.? we're the boss. you never really LIKE an effective boss. they tend to make you work for them. screw his kumbaya crap.

p.s. - that felt pretty good to think and react like a lefturd! and then my conscience kicked in.

If it cost him his next term then that means it wasn't a good thing. If Obama were to succeed in making our health care system better then it would count for him. If not then it will count against him. This tells me that, so far, what they have been trying to ram down our throats has not been good ideas. This is why the country is against it.

guess he spoke too soon..

The pres seems to have backed down...

I have to wonder... If a bunch of screaming old ladies and men scared the dems off,

What would their reaction be to terrorists waving AK-47s

That was confusing, Nanc. So you don't believe what you said (#92)? I hope you don't, 'cause if you think the US is the boss of the world, I don't even know what to say. I don't want us to be the boss or savior of the world--beacon on the hill, sure, but not more than that. (And a boss doesn't have to be liked, no, but they sure as shit should be respected. Fear is not enough, and I think it's immoral. Most righties who bring up the ouster of Saddam in support of the Iraq war talk about the moral element--he was a despot. If we then tromp around talking about being in charge of that world, that's just a different sort of tyranny.)

He will have increased the federal deficit by 10 trillion dollars... Twice as much as Bush... and equal to the amount of Clinton and Bush combined... Gonna blame that on Bush in 2012?

He will never get re-elected....

The whitehouse is full of amatures.... 2012 we clean house...

Not even kenrei and the like will vote again for this guy when they are paying 47% tax rate.

"Gonna blame that on Bush in 2012?"

Depends. How much of that will have been interest on his debt?

Hey, Bashthis, who ya gonna put up in 2012? Got someone in mind, or is it Anyone But Obama? (If so, fair enough. I was in Anyone But Bush mode in 2004.)

I don't see how any of us will be paying 47% tax rate. What combination of taxes are you playing with there, and how does this number compare to the same combination now?

Dear Mr. Prag.......

I no longer vote for Republicans or Democrats....

I am working with some people to form a Third party....

This Party most likely will be called The American Party

We are putting a Charter together and discussing issues...

The American Party will be a party for the people... Not the corporate elite...

The American party will be the party in the middle...

Always for the people...

No Lobbyists will be tolerated

Their money has wrecked this country and will never be found in our pockets.

The American Party will have rules.. It will have Honesty Integrity.

So keep voting R or D

Seems to be working out very well for you.

In the not too distant future , There may be an A column added to the ballot.

My friends and I started an "unfraternity" in college. Considering the power fraternities had on campus, we realized it was the only way to effect any change. We failed, but maybe it is time to start an "unparty." I expect to fail again, but on a much larger scale.

"No Lobbyists will be tolerated "

Then you might as well call yourselves the anti-Constitution party.

My friends and I started an "unfraternity" in college.....I expect to fail again, but on a much larger scale.
#101 | Posted by kanrei

I knew that was yours from the first sentence.

FF

Hey, Bashthis, how did any of that answer my question?

I applaud your party idea, and I could even play along. I love the idea of less corporate, etc. With you down the line. The party line--hahahaha. But seriously, good luck. If I like the person who makes it in my voting area, I'll vote for him or her. So far, on a national level, third party is a joke. Just takes votes away from the person who is viable and aligned with you, or most nearly aligned. But good stuff. Found on.

Danforth, why is "no lobbyists" anti-Constitution? I have never heard that argument before, and from a liberal!

I stated I do not Vote for Republicans or Democrats any more... I don't care who they put in.... May as well be Boozo the Clown you get the same result..

So you answered my question by not answering it. You said you were gonna clean house, which implies putting someone else in, unless you're pushing for anarchy and an empty White House. I was asking for a name--who can stand up and _get elected_? I love the activism and paradigm shifting idea--I could even join in--but it didn't answer my question. Thanks for clarifying what you intended, even if it didn't answer. : )

Oh... The Clean House comment....

Well.... It seems obvious that the public was sic of the Republican way of doing business in the 08 election....

So I thought that after four years of Obama promissing things and then changing his mind people would see the light and realize that there is no difference between either party and vote them all out... Clean house if you will.

I don't think Anarchy would get us anywhere...

I don't know who could win in 12... But it is painfuly clear to me that many things have to change....

Politics for Pay has to Go.... Term limits have to be instated at all levels. Career Politicians are corrupt politicians...

I say form a new party that is as close as we can get to the idea that the founding fathers had...

We need to kick Corporate America the hell out of Washing D.C.

We need a group of people and a new party that will do that....

Clean House!

T H E A M E R I C A N
P A R T Y

What our founding fathers faught for!

He will be a One Termer...because the public is now seeing through the lies...they see him stand up and say "you can keep your insurance" then they read the bill and know he is lying. They see the issues with health care in Canada, Britain, Germany, France and then see the WhiteHouse tell you how good it is....they gave him the benefit of the doubt with the 2nd Tarp..which STILL has not purchase any of the bad loans.

They saw him talk about and pass the massive stimulas that has done NOTHING - all the while he says he for reducing the deficit.

They gave him the benefit of the doubt on the car companies and the banks - then to see him institute the various Czars that have given him campaign contributions.

They see him rale against "special interests" and see his team loaded with lobbists. They see that he has cut deals with AARP, Pharma, AMA.

They see him say he will not raise taxes...while we spin further and further into debit and only by stopping spending ( which he WILL NOT DO - he is only increasing it!) can we fix it...so they KNOW larger taxes are on their way.

So..one lie after another cannot be covered by the media - no matter how kind.

He will be one term because he was NEVER qualified to be president in the first place - with less experience than Palin. That is why he is still campaigning ..that is ALL he knows how to do...and we watch America crumble underneith the load of ignorance.

So...look out DEMS in the fall, and you too liberal middle of the road Republicans...EVERYONE may get swepted out.

I think and would be willing to bet that people in America are so fed up with these two stupid parties....

The federal government is out of control....

They caused the banking disaster....

They caused the auto industry disaster....

They caused the addiction this country has to imported oil...

They have done nothing but fill their own pockets and the pockets of everyone in their family for the last fifty years.....

This bailout is seen as the biggest heist in world history....

Hundreds of Billions are going into the hands of friends... Sweet heart deals... No bid contracts.... Wake up America.....

The American Party will put a stop to this.....

The American party will insist upon Government Oversight by the people

No More waste

No More Secrets

No More Lies....

EVERYONE may get swepted out.

Seems I am not alone in here....

Fosh.... We could stat a movement.... There has never been a time like now in this country......

Take it back!

Shut down the money machine that is Washington D.C.

Ban the Lobby firms from D.C.

T H E A M E R I C A N P A R T Y N O W

Less experience than Palin. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

But Bashthis, do update us on your party's growth. I'm actually very interested, particularly in your corporate commentary, so I'd love to hear more. And if there are meetings in my part of the world, I'll go. Live my DR userID, you know...

Lots of work involved with forming a political party....

You need 1% of the voters in all 5 states to sign a patition to register the party in each state...

What is your part of the world.... Do tell

50 states

Prag,

What did Obama run before he was president? He never ran an business, never had a lead administrative position, was a Senator for a short period of time..but never made any executive decisions...most voted "present".

No experience in international affairs, was only a "oommunity org." - no information on his college years (but lived with a drug dealer).

So..you can laugh ..but what did he do? Nothing.

Candidates must be selected and run...

I guess the first thing people would ask is Where is all the money needed going to come from if you don't support lobbyists....

Private donations.....

Starts out Grass roots and snow balls....

Almost everyone in this country knows we are getting screwed by the people in the government...

I say pull out the proof and wave it around for all to see...

Broadcast it... Mail it around.... Do what ever it takes to make the common man see what a sham our government is...

If we don't get shot out in the street we would be a huge success.

Joining the American party will set you free from the arguments on sites like this.... No more endless Neo-con this Neo-Lib that....

You can laugh at that because your not rooting for either one....

You would be in the middle laughing at them.....

Watching the endless time wasters here is mind numbing...

Join the American Party.....

Number one on the Platform..............

T e r m L i m i t s!

Everybody knows that if you have a career in politics..... You're a damn crook!

All Career politicians gone..........

How About the Not for Pay Party!

sounds good bashthis

but not sure a 3rd party would happen in our lifetime

too many entrenched in money money money

and usually they just throw the election away from one and to another

as in KINKY being the reason perry was reelected and of course the main one...perot...

good idea though...and I bet you would get people from right here who now seem to be on opposite sides of most issues...

BUT WE WONT TAKE THE IRISH..

movie please?????

FACT: American Health Care keeps costing more and providing less each year

No wonder the RepuliTards have all been brain mucked to want to change nothing and stay the upward course -> of course, it over rewards the wealthiest!!

The RepubliTarded Nutjobs can actually get physically angry at the dare thought of "bureaucrats controlling" their health care and making decisions for them!

Well, unless those bureaucrats are fat, rich, wealthy leaders of the lobbied Insurance industries
- then they can regulate and decide your coverages all the way to the Bank designed for increasing (their) mass record profits..!!

AND - You Republitards have already proven extremely willing to spend $trillions of American tax dollars on Healthcare costs..!!??

Oh, um only for Iraqis tho
and only for no-bid, looted, hidden, 1200% over-costed contracts to the Bush/Cheney companies and pals

Back THEN y'all called it "great policy" tho..??

REALITY CHECK:

Year 2000 - Total American Debt $3 Trillion with $500 billion annual in Surplus (could be paid in 6 years)

Year 2009 - Total American Debt $11 Trillion with $1.5 trillion annual Deficit

What the Fuck did we GET for $8 Trillion in 8 Years??
In fact, we all LOST our jobs, savings, economy, freedoms and dignity for that price!??

Why do y'all hate America so much to think that being looted for 100s of Med Centers, Medicine and health care falsely labeled as "war spending" in Iraq is fine but nothing ever to help Americans in any way or you call it "porkulus"..??

So Republitarded and yet so near! - DRB

And you RepubliTards keep bending over and begging for MORE..!??

So Republitarded and yet so near! - DRB