[A]t another point of today's town hall meeting, Obama was pushing back against the idea that the creation of a new government-run plan would drive private insurers out of business, and he said that UPS and FedEx were doing fine, but "it's the post office that's always having problems." Oops!

The gaffe arose from the inherent contradiction of those arguing for the introduction of a government government-run plan. On the one hand, Obama and other supporters of the idea argue that we need to have a strong government plan to create more efficiency, drive down prices, and "keep private insurers honest." Yet at the same time, they have to make it appear weaker to push back against those of us who argue that it will threaten private insurance and move us toward a single-payer system. So then you get statements in which Obama, in the course of arguing for a government-run system, takes a shot at the government-run post office.

Hope and change and not a fucking clue

SUCKERS

Government health insurance will be like Medicare and the military health care.

Government health insurance will be like Medicare and the military health care.

I don't know about the military but I suspect it is like medicare in that it is govt run and administered.

I don't this proposal will actually provide that. I don't know for sure but it appears that multiple private insurance carriers will participate in this program to provide this care.

If enrolled in this plan, you will still be dealing with private insurance carriers.

If I am misinterpreting this then somebody please correct me.

So how often has the post office not delivered your mail?

I think the fact that I can take a piece of mail, address it to anywhere in the country, pay 44 cents, put it in a blue box located outside my office and in two or three days it is where I wanted it to go is simply amazing.

USPS still has fast cheap delivery.

If enrolled in this plan, you will still be dealing with private insurance carriers.

That is my understanding as well.

Whatever is passed will end up costing way too much and provide too little due to the cozy relationship Congress has with the insurance industry.

Nanc because less mail is sent. Paper Junk Mail is declining. People use E-Mail more. Not because the USPS is failing.

jeez, rasta - that's the nicest thing you've said to me in quite some time! I ALREADY KNOW THAT!

"So how often has the post office not delivered your mail?"

Sure, they deliver the mail. But sometimes it comes late. Sometimes you have to stand in long lines to make it happen. Sometimes you have to deal with an endless lineup of "just say no" lazy government employees whose "rules are rules" attitude stands in the way of basic common sense.

Not to mention that the USPS has been going around removing mailboxes that aren't used enough to remain cost-effective. My guess is that Obama's analogy was more appropriate than he wanted it to be.

So how often has the post office not delivered your mail?

I think the fact that I can take a piece of mail, address it to anywhere in the country, pay 44 cents, put it in a blue box located outside my office and in two or three days it is where I wanted it to go is simply amazing.

I just read that the post office might be cutting back on services. They also announced and have begun removing all of the "under performing" blue mailboxes.

How would you like that done to your health care.

good point, #12.

he said that UPS and FedEx were doing fine, but "it's the post office that's always having problems." Oops!
------
So how often has the post office not delivered your mail?

#5 | Posted by 726 at 2009-08-12 11:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

USPS still has fast cheap delivery.

#6 | Posted by jackass at 2009-08-12 11:16 AM | Reply | Flag:
--------

This is funny because FedEx now runs the Post Office.

That's why the USPS can brag about their improvements in delivery.

Ever notice that there's now a FedEx box in front of your Post Office? And a USPS drop box at Kinko's?

If it weren't for a private contractor your mail would never get delivered by government workers.

"If enrolled in this plan, you will still be dealing with private insurance carriers."

Medicare is administered state-by-state by private insurance companies. Private contractors. The government doesn't run Medicare.

The same person who gives you shit about CIGNA will give you the same shit about ObamaCare.

Sure, they deliver the mail. But sometimes it comes late. Sometimes you have to stand in long lines to make it happen. Sometimes you have to deal with an endless lineup of "just say no" lazy government employees whose "rules are rules" attitude stands in the way of basic common sense.

I have never had that happen to me. Sounds like you are just one unlucky fuck.

That is my understanding as well.

Whatever is passed will end up costing way too much and provide too little due to the cozy relationship Congress has with the insurance industry.

Thanks 726 and Vernon.

Any lib like Danniforth, Corkyass, etcc want to voice their opinions on this?

Your constant railing on about insurance companies and how they fuck you with their profits and administration and yet DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU WILL STILL BE DEALING WITH THESE SAME COMPANIES????

Have any of you even seen what they cost TO YOU will be to enroll in one of these plans?

So, to recap, we know you will still deal with the same insurance companies you already hate and you don't even know the premiums.....and you are in favor of this?

The same person who gives you shit about CIGNA will give you the same shit about ObamaCare.

well, actually they won't because apparently they prefer the smell of shit from Obama rather than CIGNA.

Same shit though.

This is funny because FedEx now runs the Post Office

Try and drop off a USPS piece of mail at a FedEx office. Of see if the USPS will deliver your FedEx.

this cracks me up!

Ever notice that there's now a FedEx box in front of your Post Office?

Surely that is the only evidence that we need to PROVE that FedEx RUNS the US Postal Service.

Or could it be that they have an alliance allowing them to put drop boxes in each other's locations?

Or is it that they have an alliance allowing the USPS to put priority mail packages on FedEx planes?

I would hardly equate that to FedEx running the USPS.

-Medicare is administered state-by-state by private insurance companies. Private contractors. The government doesn't run Medicare.

Hey, Moment of Clarity Award for Vernon!

And the government won't run the new health care, either.

As a supporter of single-payer, I can only note that most Dems felt forced to keep industry players because of GOP pressure.

And the government won't run the new health care, either.

then what do you like about it?

same insurance companies with same motherfuckers running them. Are they going to have to take a paycut to participate in the exchange?

No, Brother Eberly, they are going to have some actual rules now. Imagine that.

This video is a beut. Krugman asks an audience of Canadians to raise their hands if they are displeased with they health care system. Almost all raised their hands.

No, Brother Eberly, they are going to have some actual rules now. Imagine that.

Okay. you mean things like portability, pre-exisitng conditions...etc.. things like that?

ray - that is priceless!

#25 Yeppers.

And maximums on patient payouts, less denials of claims, and decisions by doctors incentivize by outcomes instead of number of costly procedures, and much more.

"I have never had that happen to me. Sounds like you are just one unlucky fuck."

I'm sure that'll be your response when someone experiences the same bullshit trying to get a hip replacement. If it doesn't happen to you, does that mean it doesn't happen at all?

#27 so, much more coverage.

And we are assured that with all this coverage, that this will somehow cost less and regardless, the insurance companies will still profit??

or do the libs think the insurance companies have all agreed to start losing money?

What I am getting at here is that we will basically see no difference here except to remove some barriers some folks have had to insurance in the past....and I'm sure they will be asked to pony up some premium in exchange for that.

Some insurance execs are making $100,000 an hour, and the profits in the industry as a whole have doubled in the last 8 years.

If we don't get a public option to keep industry at least a little more honest and competitive, you could be correct.

The USPS could probably solve many of its financial problems by doubling what it charges to put Wal-Mart flyers and Dominos pizza coupons in every mailbox in the U.S.

Some insurance execs are making $100,000 an hour, and the profits in the industry as a whole have doubled in the last 8 years.

agreed. and I should have said long ago that this is a reality that needs to be pointed out.

If we don't get a public option to keep industry at least a little more honest and competitive, you could be correct.

you can forget about them being any more competitive with each other than they already are. they are butting heads with each other everyday in the marketplace right now.

I just want to know what will compel them to be any more competitive than now, considering that they will have to basically ADD coverage to play this game.....and lower rates in the process.

And I am wondering how many people (on both sides of this issue) think this plan will actually be an option where people would pay premims to the govt, and the govt will adminstrate claims etc...

Some insurance execs are making $100,000 an hour...

Share Print CommentsThe 10 highest-paid CEOs for 2008 at Standard & Poor's 500 companies based on calculations by The Associated Press. The analysis includes companies that filed proxy statements with the Securities and Exchange Commission between Jan. 1 and April 20. The total pay figures are rounded and are based on the AP's compensation formula, which adds up salary, perks, bonuses, preferential interest rates on pay set aside for later, and company estimates for the value of stock options and stock awards on the day they were granted last year.

1. Aubrey McClendon, Chesapeake Energy Corp., $112.5 million

2. Sanjay Jha, Motorola Inc., $104.4 million

3. Robert Iger, Walt Disney Co., $51.1 million

4. Lloyd Blankfein, Goldman Sachs Group Inc., $42.9 million

5. Kenneth Chenault, American Express Co., $42.9 million

6. Vikram Pandit, Citigroup Inc., $38.2 million

7. Steven Farris, Apache Corp., $37.2 million

8. Louis Camilleri, Philip Morris International Inc., $36.9 million

9. Kevin Johnson, Juniper Networks Inc., $36.1 million

10. Jamie Dimon, JPMorgan Chase & Co., $35.7 million

Please provide examples of some insurance execs making $100,000/hr as you claim.

Goat, I let that one go because at least Corky didn't insert the pants pissing rants like "being paid to deny claims" bullshit.

Danniforth will probably come on to state that they only work 5 hours a week.

"it only takes 5 hours a week to deny claims!!!"

-Danniforth

#34 - Energy, banks, tobacco.

Let's get em!!!

Oh wait, the left would say we already went after them.......and they make more money than the insurance companies.

Perhaps by Obama's 2nd term, some insurance execs will make the list.

LOL

Insurance agents are paid to deny health care. They get raises for denying life saving treatments. The rationing of health care and death panels have been around for decades--thanks to Nixon and the republicans.

#37:

Was that link meant to show me some insurance execs making $100,000/hr, corky? If so -- FAIL. Please provide something from a reputable financial source like the WSJ, Barons, Financial Times, etc. You can't really rely on a blog to get accurate facts, wouldn't you agree?

I provided two reputable links to dispute you -- one even from a Union site to keep the leftie in you satisfied.

If you can't provide anything to support your claim, just admit you lied instead of spinning and squirming and linking to a leftist blog.

From your own link, corky:

2008 Compensation (Forbes)
$3,241,042

I presume you will agree with me that $3.2 million/yr is substantially lower than $200 million/yr ($100,000/hr)?

More here, Eberley.

I have no interest in you or your stalking.

Nor do you have any interest in the facts either, corky.

I don't understand why you consider my giving you facts and links to prove them "stalking". I guess when all else fails, play the "S" card -- right, corky? LOL

I see you still can't reference to a reputable financial site -- just sites with a clear agenda. It still spells FAIL for you, corky. Just because a left wing site says that an insurance exec makes $100,000 an hour and fails to provide a reputable source to substantiate their claim doesn't make it so, corky.

FAIL

I'll wait for your link to a reputable site to substantiate your outrageous claims, corky. Until then, enjoy the taste of truth that I was kind enough to provide to you.

From your own link, corky:

Aetna

$35.7 m . $40.1 m . $75.8 m

CIGNA
$32.9 m $43.5 m $76.4 m

Humana
$14.9 m $22.4 m $37.3 m

MetLife
$41.3 m $45.9 m $87.2 m....

Wellpoint
$45.5 m $33.2 m $78.7 m

These figures are 2006 and 2007 compensations and the total of those two years.

I'm sure being the fair and truth seeking person you are that you will agree that even their two years of compensation doesn't approach $100,000/hr as you claim, right? Can you be honest enough with yourself to admit that? You have the numbers from a link you provided so surely you must (but you probably won't. *sigh*)

So tell me, corky -- is it still stalking when you provide the facts that contradict yourself and not I? Are you now stalking yourself? LOL

Dorky has been OWNED. What a surprise. I'm convinced if you googled half the nonsense the lefties around here regurgitate, you'll find out it's a lie.

I'm convinced if you googled half the nonsense the lefties around here regurgitate, you'll find out it's a lie.

I have Googled most of the things the right says and they score over half as lies.

" I'm convinced if you googled half the nonsense the lefties around here regurgitate, you'll find out it's a lie."

#44 | Posted by JOE

Yeah sure, shyster.

There are a few folks here whose posts I take with a grain of salt and will google their 'facts'. Corky is high on that list. Redneckshill, bOoB, commonsense are a few more.

It's a shame because they feel strongly about what they believe in and probably have something to contribute, but after hundreds of times being proven wrong (and worse yet, still continue spinning and providing trash links when challenged) I just dismiss all of their 'facts' as BS and assume they are inaccurate.

Corky is one of the funniest, though -- when confronted with indisputable evidence that contradicts his, his predictly whine is "Quit stalking me!"

Corky is one of the funniest, though -- when confronted with indisputable evidence that contradicts his, his predictly whine is "Quit stalking me!"

At least you haven't been analyzed as a no good father, who would let his daughter die a horrible death, in some labor camp because I hate the Clintons.lol

Insurance agents are paid to deny health care. They get raises for denying life saving treatments.

Agents are now denying care?

Yeah, I used to stand in hospital operating rooms and tackle the doctor before he saved a life.

fucking dolt. Agents get paid commissions to sell insurance......nothing more.

I'm partially ashamed I even replied to your bullshit.

More here, Eberley.

www.gather.com

bucknakedpolitics.typepad.com

And yet the left is championing an effort on the part of the democrats to shake hands with these guys in a "reform".

LOL

The current health structure pays people to deny health care--and promotes those who deny necessary health coverage even if it costs people their lives. Money is the bottom line for insurance companies. They get raises for denying life saving treatments. The rationing of health care and death panels have been around for decades--thanks to Nixon and the republicans.

The current health structure pays people to deny health care

i know this is a problem boobshit. I have seen this stuff and i acknowlege it has happened.

you make no point as usual.

you expect to taken seriously when you don't know the difference between an insurance executive and an agent?

stick to 9-11 and smokestack theories dipshit.

Guess what, bOoB? All successful corporations have teams that make sure that their contracts and obligations are followed to the letter in order to maximize profits.

If someone is denied health care from their insurance provider, it is because they did not deserve it in the first place or the insured did not challenge the insurance company.

If someone dies or their health worsens because the insurance company failed to meet their end of the contract, they can successfully sue in a court of law.

Money is the bottom line for insurance companies.

duh. Money is the bottom line for all companies. Are you new to this whole capitalism thing or something? The concept has been around for a very long time. Read about it sometime, bOoB. Then you'll maybe understand the importance of contracts and obligations and why companies don't want to give more than they are obliged to

Intersting theory. The Insurance Companies want the people paying them to die, yet also doesn't want the government to help pay them. So how exactly are these evil corporations making money when they are trying to kill everyone paying them?

Damn Corky, $100,000 a year? That doesn't pass the smell test, and you should have known better.

As for the retards thinking the Post Office doesn't lose mail, destroy mail, or deliver late...You're fucking retards. Those Unionized fucks don't give a shit about efficiency and fight it every step of the way.

The current health structure pays people to deny health care--and promotes those who deny necessary health coverage even if it costs people their lives. Money is the bottom line for insurance companies. They get raises for denying life saving treatments. The rationing of health care and death panels have been around for decades--thanks to Nixon and the republicans.

BuffaloBob -

You are correct about many people being unfairly denied health care coverage under their medical insurance. When it's a private insurance company they look to maximize their profits any way they can. Blue Cross is a prime example.

When someone submitted a costly claim for medical services, Blue Cross had become notorious for retroactively going over the person's medical history in order to find any kind of minor loophole in order to deny paying the claim.

Blue Cross even had a "special department" with personnel who did nothing else but look for ways to deny coverage after a person had sumitted a claim Blue Cross didn't want to pay. If a person had unintentionally failed to put down some minor illness on their application for insurance -- like a short term bout with asthma they had as a young child -- Blue Cross would then use it as an excuse not to pay a totally unrelated claim they submitted as an adult.

California Blue Cross did it to so many of their policy holders they were eventually taken to court and Blue Cross was found guilty.

Here are some examples sent in by consumers who got the short end of the stick with Blue Cross --

If someone is denied health care from their insurance provider, it is because they did not deserve it in the first place or the insured did not challenge the insurance company.

standing behind every insurance policy with it's exclusions and limitations is a state insurance commissioner who APPROVED THAT LANGUAGE.

Kathlene Sebelius (current HHS) used to be the governor of Kansas. Guess what title she had before governor.

State insurance commissioner

......so keep in mind that the same people who are attempting to help you are the same people who enabled a health insurance company to place that exclusion and limitation in the policy in the first place. they (state insurance departments and commissioners) placed their stamp of approval on all of the issues that everybody is so upset about.

Furthermore, insurance companies are subject to "Fair Practice" laws that apply penalties for denying claims that should have been paid. Each state has their own laws on this...I don't think it is Federal....somebody can check on this.

It's not like these insurance companies have operated without the cooperation of the govt in the past.

Excuse me if I'm skeptical of the same govt attempting to inject "reform" into this industry.

Wow, bOoB -- you can keep on spamming that same post, but I don't think it'll help. What would help is if you moved to one of those other countries that are so much better than this one that you hate and want to see divided. Think you happy you'd be living in #1 France!

-$100,000 a year?

No, it's $100,000 an hour based on his stock options. Just the facts, ma'm.

An industry that has doubled it's profits in the last 8 years, mainly due to deregulation and denying patient claims, sure has all you rightwing turds on a short leash, eh?

And they don't even have to pay you morons, they just scare you with fake facts and culture war propaganda.

Talk about easy money.

Here's the vid about the ceo in question...

No, it's $100,000 an hour based on his stock options. Just the facts, ma'm.

If you read the link I posted, corky, you'll see that the total compensation also considered stock options. Also, you do realize that stock options are not a guarantee of income, don't you? It is merely a guarantee of buying stock in the future x years at a pre-determined price. IOW, stock options due the last year or so are shit.

Wanna try again?

United Healthcare CEO Bill McGuire's 2006 Compensation Was $1.6 Billion.

But What Does $1.6 Billion Look Like, Anyway?

this has become a deflection of stupidity.

I'll gladly concede that these guys are paid excessively. Keep trying to make this point and I can insist that if he worked for free then it would save a few pennies a month to each policyholder so again, this is a deflection of stupidity.....it doesn't solve anything.

the issue is (I guess) the denial of claims in the process and I'm trying to point out that your wonderful govt approved those practices (except those that are deemed illegal like the BCBS example Chris posted) and the dems are inviting the same wolves (including Bill McGuire) to the table to discuss how not to eat the lamb on the table.

LOL

-your wonderful govt approved those practices

Your wonderful Bushite admin closed their eyes to these folks, as GNOPers are well-paid to do.

At least the Dems are trying to address a problem that was not just ignored, but approved of and fought for by the last admin.

That's a cool link telling what $1.6b looks like. Too bad you aren't honest enough to provide a reputable link that backs up your leftist agenda site. Since you can't, I'll provide the truth (I hope you trust Forbes over your lefty sites) which shows he was compensated $297M over 5 years, not $1.6B in one year.

You're a funny guy, corky. Try looking at something other than leftist sites with an agenda. You want soooo badly to believe these lies, don't you? LOL

Total Compensation
$10.70 mil (#133)

5-Year Compensation Total
$297.21 mil

Your wonderful Bushite admin closed their eyes to these folks, as GNOPers are well-paid to do.

At least the Dems are trying to address a problem that was not just ignored, but approved of and fought for by the last admin.

you try to pull someone out of the pigshit they are swimming in and they just jump right back in.

Keep swimming in it Corky. Personally, I can't stand the smell of it.

Your wonderful Bushite admin

Ah yes. The inevitable Bush deflection. Well, corky, those four letters don't cover up your $1.6B lie.

"Quit stalking me with your facts!"

corky

McGuire's payday is a shame, if not a crime

High executive pay at UnitedHealth Group has had ripple effects throughout the health care industry, critics say.

You could view the conciliatory gesture last week by UnitedHealth Group CEO Bill McGuire to voluntarily forgo any more millions in option grants as a first try at a low-cost settlement with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC).

It may take a lot more than that.

The government's top securities regulator is investigating the extent to which McGuire, one of America's best-paid bosses, was able to pick the dates of some of his option grants to coincide with low-water prices for UNH's shares.

The company told the Star Tribune this week that the board of directors had to approve the selected dates and that the practice was halted in 2005.

Still, some securities lawyers say, such practices may violate securities laws, because they allow insiders to benefit from knowledge not available to other shareholders.

"Dollar Bill" has made lots of news with cash-and-stock paydays that have topped $100 million in recent years -- and he's still sitting atop stock options valued at $1.6 billion.

McGuire's admiring outside board members -- 10 of whom have become millionaires through the sale of their own appreciated stock in recent years -- have defended his league-leading compensation on grounds that the giant health insurer's stock price has been a superb performer.

However, the national scrutiny this week came amid news that the SEC is investigating whether McGuire and the board broke any laws. The Minnesota attorney general also has jumped into a shareholder suit seeking to get to the bottom of the matter.

Others are less concerned with option-dating and more concerned with the cumulative effects that big paydays for executives at UnitedHealth are having on the health care industry.

"My thoughts relate more to UnitedHealth Group's pay in general, rather than on the backdating issues, which are hard to parse due to ambiguous legal standards," said Broc Romanek, a former SEC lawyer, corporate counsel and the editor of TheCorporateCounsel.net and CompensationStandards.com.

"UnitedHealth Group's CEO serves as a good example of excessive CEO pay being the fault of an aggressive CEO and a compliant board, which impacted the pay structure of an entire industry," Romenek said

McGuire's payday is a shame, if not a crime

corky could post some of her own words once. unless she doesn't have any of course.

perhaps danniforth can come by and swim some laps with you. maybe even get up a game of volleyball.

LOL

BTW, I agree with eberly that these guys, as are most CEOs, are over compensated. But that won't stop me from rubbing your nose in your blatant lies, corky. $1.6b in one year (2006). LOL! I can't imagine wanting to bash something so badly that I would put my dick on the line with such a blatantly false figure.

An industry that has doubled it's profits in the last 8 years, mainly due to deregulation and denying patient claims, sure has all you rightwing turds on a short leash, eh?

And they don't even have to pay you morons, they just scare you with fake facts and culture war propaganda.

Talk about easy money.

Oh wait, did I already say that?

roflmfao

#69 | Posted by eberly at 2009-08-12 03:17 PM | Reply | Flag: Just another RINO

"perhaps danniforth can come by "

Good God, I must have stung you bad.

McGuire's payday is a shame, if not a crime

Stock options =/= payday

Would you like me to explain stock options to you and how their 'value' can be interpreted to be wildly differing figures?

Poor corky the grass eater

Oh wait, did I already say that?

Probably, but I'm sure no one believed it.

We have greedy insurance execs making uncountable fortunes while denying service and kicking people off health care, and that is the status quo that is acceptable to GOPhers?

It's almost as funny as the sad sack dweebs that defend them.

I'm sure that'll be your response when someone experiences the same bullshit trying to get a hip replacement. If it doesn't happen to you, does that mean it doesn't happen at all?

#28 | Posted by JOE at 2009-08-12 12:33 PM | Reply

And I am sure that you close your eyes and pretend that does not happen today under the current system that you are so quick to defend.

It's almost as funny as the sad sack dweebs that defend them.

I don't think I've seen anyone defending them (dweeb or otherwise) but it's not near as funny as the outrageous and undocumented numbers you are bantering about, corky. You've got this part of San Antonio in stitches.

I'm sure that'll be your response when someone experiences the same bullshit trying to get a hip replacement. If it doesn't happen to you, does that mean it doesn't happen at all?

#28 | Posted by JOE at 2009-08-12 12:33 PM | Reply

Or am I to assume that in your world, any person anywhere in the country can walk into any hospital/doctors office without waiting for an appointment, request whatever procedure they want and never have to have it approved or denied by the medical bureacrats?

Is that how it works in Joe world?

On demand hip replacements without authorization and waiting?

"Stock options =/= payday"

Not directly, but it's certainly part of the overall compensation.

We have greedy insurance execs making uncountable fortunes while denying service and kicking people off health care, and that is the status quo that is acceptable to GOPhers?

Is this a country of freedom and choice still?

In any case, I don't care for the status quo.

but again, if you read my previous posts, you would understand that I am skeptical of THIS reform as I doubt it will accomplish what want.

what do I want you say???

more efficiency
more preventative care leading to fewer severe illnesses
a Healthier country.

I'm beginning to believe that Corky and Danniforth don't want that. they simply want to argue with Rush Limbaugh and blindly support something he is against.

Not directly, but it's certainly part of the overall compensation.

It could be part of the overall compensation, danforth.

BTW, are you agreeing with corky that Bill McGuire was compensated $1.6 billion in 2006? Put party aside and tell me truthfully if you agree with his figure.

I assume you don't because corky falsely assumes that those stock options were obtained in one year. It also probably makes some other erroneous assumptions (exericise value for one).

So do you agree with corky on that figure, dan? Was Bill McGuire compensated $1.6B in 2006?

Stock options =/= payday"

Not directly, but it's certainly part of the overall compensation.

#80 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-08-12 03:28 PM | Reply | Flag

What do you make of Corky's $100,000/hour comment? (Pretend as though Corky were right of center...or even Vernon).

Then there are the anal retentive pettifoggers who can't see the forest for the trees.

Not talking about you, Eb.

This editorial was in Scripps news today. Imagine the central planners using bogus stats to determine our care as rationed by the best and brightest:

Submitted by SHNS on Wed, 08/12/2009 - 11:21 An editorial / By Dale McFeatters, Scripps Howard News Serviceeditorials and opinionA Scripps Howard News Service study of 4.9 million cause-of-death records for the years 2005 and 2006 from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention revealed a disturbing conclusion: medical experts think about 30 percent of the death diagnoses were either incorrect, fraudulent or just somebody's wild guess.
That means our knowledge of what's killing Americans -- and more than 2.4 million of us die each year -- is not terribly accurate, which greatly complicates the cause of prevention. In particular, heart disease tends to be a catchall cause of death, blamed for 32 percent of deaths in New York state but only 20 percent in Colorado, the state that not coincidentally has the highest rate of autopsies.
Among the findings by reporters Thomas Hargrove and Lee Bowman: Cancer is blamed for 28 percent in the national-capital suburb of Fairfax County, Va., but only 19 percent in Salt Lake City. In smaller communities, cancer deaths range from more than 40 percent to less than 7 percent, and stroke deaths from nearly 17 percent to less than 1 percent. The wild fluctuations suggest that there is more at work than just regional variations in mortality.
"The result is that we're spending too much money in the wrong places and not enough on diseases that kill more than the numbers show," said Dr. Elizabeth Burton of Baylor Medical Center in Dallas. And the suspect statistics make it difficult to identify new disease patterns, a problem that could become acute with the aging of the boomer generation.

83 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2009-08-12 03:33 PM | Reply | Flag: Last saw $100,000 in dream involving Queen Latifah and Oprah.

Not talking about you, Eb.

Are you talking about the ones who claim execs making $100,000/hr and that Bill McGuire was compensated $1.6B in 2006 without providing substantiating links?

I thought so! LOL

Not talking about you, Eb.

#84 | Posted by Corky

Goattroll sure has his nose up your ass today, Corky. But I see you haven't taken the bait. Wise man.

This is interesting. Here is UHG's earning's statement eanding FY 2006. It said they earned $1.59 B on revenues of $17.9B Q1 of that year. And corky claims that their CEO was compensated $1.6B-- ~25% their annual earnings?

You crack me up corky.

Reported
GAAP (1)
Part D
Normalized
December 31,
2005
March 31,
2005
Revenues $17.59 billion $17.24 billion $12.33 billion $11.16 billion
Earnings From Operations $ 1.49 billion $ 1.59 billion $ 1.36 billion $ 1.20 billion
Operating Margin 8.4% 9.2% 11.1% 10.7%

Goattroll sure has his nose up your ass today, Corky.

So do you dispute my facts and links, null, or are you just here for you obligatory drive-by?

Thought so. Good to see you again though, troll.

But I see you haven't taken the bait.

translation

"Keep treading water, corky. He'll soon tire of posting the facts and figures that you can't dispute"

Corky repeated a talking point previously posted by danniforth (I now just intertwine the 2) without really looking at it.

I'll bet next time she checks out the ranting posts of danniforth before she grabs it off the shelf.

Forbes magazine reports that William W. McGuire, CEO of UnitedHealth Group) received compensation of $124.8 million in 2005. Managed Care Magazine also says that the average executive compensation (excluding unexercised stock options) for an executive of a top 10 for profit health plan' was $11.7 million and that was back in 2000

" their CEO was compensated $1.6B-- ~25% their annual earnings?"

Note: CEO compensation comes out before earnings.

"I'll bet next time she checks out the ranting posts of danniforth"

Aw...your vagina still smarting from all that sand?

-Wise man.

It's just that every time I do, there's sort of this obnoxious odor of sexually excited farm animals that seeps in thru the cpu.

-Corky repeated a talking point previously posted by danniforth

Great minds is all I can say.

Note: CEO compensation comes out before earnings.

duh. That makes it less incredulous?

You never answered me and 101, danforth. Posts #82 and #83

Note: CEO compensation comes out before earnings.

salaries are only deductible up to a point.

"salaries are only deductible up to a point."

Only from taxes; not from earnings.

What do you make of Corky's $100,000/hour comment? (Pretend as though Corky were right of center...or even Vernon).

#83 | Posted by 101Chairborne

Better yet, pretend he's Crassus and blame it on the retard gene.

Forbes magazine reports that William W. McGuire, CEO of UnitedHealth Group) received compensation of $124.8 million in 2005. Managed Care Magazine also says that the average executive compensation (excluding unexercised stock options) for an executive of a top 10 for profit health plan' was $11.7 million and that was back in 2000

Still waiting to hear about this lucky exec making $100k/hr. Anything yet corky?

Danforth avoids admitting corky lies. Oh well, party over truth with some people.

"BTW, are you agreeing with corky that Bill McGuire was compensated $1.6 billion in 2006?"
"What do you make of Corky's $100,000/hour comment?"

I haven't seen the numbers directly, but it seems ludicrous on its face.

"It's just that every time I do, there's sort of this obnoxious odor of sexually excited farm animals that seeps in thru the cpu."

Goatman's been away for 2 weeks. He's horny.

labor is a commodity.

take it up with the shareholders.

or you can try and solve the problem.

nevermind. some people prefer pigshit.

"Danforth avoids admitting corky lies."

Can't a fella get one minute to respond? Sheesh.

"Oh well, party over truth with some people."

GFY.

Better yet, pretend he's Crassus and blame it on the retard gene.

Best bet probably. He made the mistake of defending corky, but realizes that cork told some awful lies that even danforth can't spin. But he'll never admit it.

GFY.

I think we can all see who is "smarting from the sand in the vagina".

Gee, Eb, you're the pussy that keeps needing to bring me up at every turn. Still smarting from the last beat-down?

Can't a fella get one minute to respond?

Well, one minute, yes. But thirty (I first asked at 3:32) and your responding to other things in between made me think you were avoiding the question. Nice attempt at blame shifting though, danny.

I'll wait patiently for your answer to my and 101's posts 82 and 83

Danforth -- quit quibbling with Eb and answer 82 and 83 please. Do you feel corky is honest or not with his wild compensatory figures?

If you need another hour to figure it out, just say so and we'll wait. Otherwise it looks like it's corky over truth for you.

"your responding to other things in between made me think you were avoiding the question. "

I was cleaning out the garage, and not hanging on to your every post. SO sorry.

"duh. That makes it less incredulous?"

No, it just make your statement that it was ~25% of earnings incorrect. Compensation is subtracted before earnings are tallied.

make = makes, or made

"Danforth -- quit quibbling with Eb and answer 82 and 83 please. Do you feel corky is honest or not with his wild compensatory figures?"

Goat -- quit being a jerkoff and reread my #103, as many times as it takes you to understand.

82 & 83 danforth? If you don't want to answer, just say so.

113:

Thank you. I did link to the real numbers, however. Corky lied even if you can't say it.

"Forbes magazine reports that William W. McGuire, CEO of UnitedHealth Group) received compensation of $124.8 million in 2005. "

If that's correct, that's $60,000 an hour right there. Anyone want to pretend stock options aren't additional compensation?

"82 & 83 danforth? If you don't want to answer, just say so."

#103 Goatman? If you don't understand that's an answer, just say so.

BTW, I'm headed out. Please don't mistake my lack of response for agreeing with one side or the other.

I have to admit I was wrong..... health insurance companies have not doubled their profits in 8 years, they quadrupled it between 2000 and 2007 from 2.4 Billion to 12.7 Billion.

For anyone who is really interested, here is a video of a former industry exec giving the insider pov.

1993 95 percent of premiums went to pay claims, now it is 80 percent. So, just don't pay claims and make more money.

125 million a year is about 60K an hour. Add in the options, bonuses, and bennies, and links I supplied figured it at about $100,000 an hour, likely very close to right considering his stock holdings.

(Man, it smells much better in here without that sexually excited farm animal smell bleeding thru!)

Anal retentive assholes aside, of course.

125 million a year is about 60K an hour. Add in the options, bonuses, and bennies, and links I supplied figured it at about $100,000 an hour, likely very close to right considering his stock holdings.

Those are already included in the compensation numbers, corky. Can't add them twice.

Keep trying. I'm amused. I've not seen such desperation to promote lies in a while. Please continue with the next spin.

Oh yes, still waiting for a link (not your spin of a link) that verifies your claim that there are insurance execs that make $100k/hr. LOL

(Man, it smells much better in here without that sexually excited farm animal smell bleeding thru!)

Did you consign the ram to the garage?

""it only takes 5 hours a week to deny claims!!!"
-Danniforth"

I'm going to speak for Danforth, because I have nothing to say for myself.
~Fiberly

Goat says, "Did you consign the ram to the garage?"

Did Doc_Sarvis make a post? Is he caressing his ram's horn, again?

Government health care will be like, um, the post office

Cheap and efficient? That sounds fantastic!

I can just imagine 30 or 40 years down the road the Secretary of Health telling congress that the government can no longer afford to pay for Saturday service, that people will have to get sick from Monday to Friday.

"I can just imagine 30 or 40 years down the road the Secretary of Health telling congress that the government can no longer afford to pay for Saturday service"

Can you imagine folks like you not being able to afford health care in half that time because the baby boomers have triggered health care inflation making it beyond your reach?

If it's going to be like Medicare, it will go broke. If it's going to be like the VA then you will have to drive 500 milles to the nearest hospital and your case will fall throught the cracks.

"If it's going to be like Medicare, it will go broke."

Not if its universal, single payer, everybody in, nobody out, coupled with a few adjustments.

"If it's going to be like the VA then you will have to drive 500 milles to the nearest hospital and your case will fall throught the cracks."

My dad had to wait a while for decisions to be made, but once they were...

""If it's going to be like Medicare, it will go broke.""

You're confusing efficiency with funding.

ah yes

and we have another..."close your eyes and think back" moment

just imagine this thread and it was bush who said something this stupid.....

this would be post # 230 for starters....

"I can just imagine 30 or 40 years down the road the Secretary of Health telling congress that the government can no longer afford to pay for Saturday service, that people will have to get sick from Monday to Friday."

And if we don't reform health care 90% of us won't be able to afford it in 10 years.

BTW, the Post Office delivers to every podunk in the country, UPS and FexEx don't have that problem so sure the Post Office is going to lose money in thousands of post offices across the country.

face it...post office is the shining example of govt run in the ground..
ever stand in line forever while a civil servant who CANT GET FIRED just stands just out of view while the line gets bigger and bigger...

yep...that union thing really helps the PO alright

and there is some truth in a statement about how mail gets around but that doesnt exclude them from being this example..its not like they dont have the resources

"BTW, the Post Office delivers to every podunk in the country, "

Yeah, including where you live, lol!

#132 | Posted by afkabl2 at

Take 47 cents to UPS or FEDEX and see if you can get one of their drivers to spit on something you want delivered and give it back you you. That probably costs at least a buck.

And FYI, UPS is union.

ever stand in line forever while a manager at a grodery store who CANT GET FIRED just stands just out of view while the line gets bigger and bigger...

Anything a Post Office employee has done wrong has been done wrong by an employee of a for profit company too. I've know some pretty dedicated post office employees who worked hard for their money.

Tell me, if Fed Ex or UPS wanted to cut back service because of lower volume due to email these days do they have to get Congress to permit them to???? You try to make a profit today delivering all the places the post office does. They do a very good job considering the demands place upon them and the reduced volume due to email.

I don't care if it pushes out private insurers, hope it does.

The private insurers need to go, they have abused us enough.