Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Sunday, August 09, 2009

In his weekly radio address, President Barack Obama picked apart the "outlandish" arguments of Sarah Palin and other opponents of his health care reform legislation who have claimed it promotes euthanasia, will eliminate Medicaid.

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Personal attacks may have worked in his campaign but will certainly alienate him with the american public. It's a stretch to say that 54% of americans are stupid or nutters. I also don't really believe that every democrat out there wants a government run health care system.

Sarvis can't understand why everybody doesn't enjoy having Obama shove things down their throats, when it brings Doc such joy.

Hey, Crockafish, didn't you use to be Linda Lovelace?

"It's a stretch to say that 54% of americans are stupid or nutters."

Who said 54% of the American people are nutters?

I said Obama "picked apart the absurd arguments of rightwing nutters like Sarah Palin and others -- especially those in that health industry wholly-owned subsidiary known as the Republican Party -- who're yammering on in a desperate attempt to preserve the status quo."

If there are coherent arguments against reforming health care, let's hear them. But they're not coming out of the mouths of rightwing nutters like Sarah Palin and others who seem to believe that shouting about an issue makes up for thinking clearly about an issue.

But you go ahead, check out what Sarah Palin said and get back here and tell me where her latest hysterical rant holds together.

That's okay. I'll wait.

If there are coherent arguments against reforming health care, let's hear them.

Are you saying you haven't heard any?

Forget Sarah Palin. I agree she is an idiot.

I certainly haven't heard them from MysteryBoy. Nor am I likely to.

I'll give Obama credit for at least getting a serious discussion going, while I'd give the nutteres credit for so far helping to do nothing much beyond attempting to derail that serious discussion.

"We will stop insurance companies from denying coverage because of a person's medical history. I will never forget watching my own mother, as she fought cancer in her final days, worrying about whether her insurer would claim her illness was a preexisting condition."
* * * * *

Obviously her insurer paid the claim, otherwise Obama would have said so. So it's a red herring that the Docforthcork Unity's of the world are supposed to just accept, because critical thinking have been left to others.

In the UK cancer victims have three times the mortality they do here. If his momma had been in Scotland, she likely wouldn't have stuck around long enough to wonder whether someone was going to pick up her tab.

Party on, though. "Elections have consequences". And all that. Slup!

Poll numbers are used by the dishonest opponents of health care reform. they pretend that opposition to "Obama's plan" is the same thing as support for our present system. About half of those opposed to Obama's plan are only opposed because they want more basic reform, like single payer. Funny how most corporate media outlets don't bother to include that distinction when they present poll numbers. 7 out of 10 Americans believe significant change is needed to make health care more available to all and more affordable for all.
If cost analysis were done comparing Medicare for all with either the Dem proposal or our present system there is no contest and the insiders both in politics and business know it.

"absurd arguments of 'right wing nutters'"..

Hmm...I don't guess the pot calling the kettle black has any meaning for you?

Kind of the like dissent by libs is the highest form of patriotism, but by conservatives is terroristic?

You guys are a trip

"Some have been blah blah blah. And there are those who blah blah blah. And yet some say blah blah blah. Still others try to blah blah blah. So when someone says blah blah blah. I want you yo sharpen your elbows, get in their face and shout then down! If they push tou away then hit them back twice as hard! Then I want you to get get names etc and report them to WhiteHouse.gov. The Obamaman will take it from there."
--- Obama, the uniter ---


Yeh, I got it!

Lame duck in 2010. Gone in 2012. Keep it up!

I have no problem with Doc & others who cannot care or think for themselves deferring to a "central committee" that would oversees their needs . . a caring society owes it to those folks - -
and, who knows, with the right education & training someday they could be independent & productive and not just a drain on society


I have no problem with reforming health care - it does make sense.
but c'mon . . a common sense approach is in order:


a) reform trial lawyers

b) use input from ALL affected parties (Dr.s, the public, employers, hospitals, etc . . ) to form a plan or two

c) try it out in 3 or 4 states to work out the bugs (or see if it even works)

when a system is presented that actually WORKS, other States will be lining up to sign on


it's not really rocket science or anything, AND would not require certain segments of our society to HATE other segments
(naturally, Steelers & fans would be exempted and could still be hated)


#10 | Posted by JeffnDenmark | Flag: WENT TO DENMARK FOR A SEX CHANGE OPERATION AND ALL HE GOT WAS A TINFOIL HAT


I have no problem
I have no problem...
it's not really rocket science or anything...
#13 | Posted by markh


You're right.
It's not really rocket sciences or anything.
But you DO have a problem with comprehending what you read.
Work on it.
Who knows, it might help.

Doc, you have self identified as someone needing MAX assistance in life . . .

as such your demands for MORE assistance are hardly valid to those of us who are providing that assistance (for you)

aka: we're happy to help ya, but on OUR terms, NOT YOURS

we're happy to help ya, but on OUR terms, NOT YOURS
#16 | Posted by markh

WTF are you babbling on about now? And whos' this "we" you talk about? You're not a decision maker, Markh. You're one of the losers for whom others make all decisions. As you recently said, regurgitating what you'd been told: "the upside - - ya don't have to waste time sorting facts & such . .ya just repeat what you are told." A pithy, albeit devastating, autobiographical statement on your part, lil' fella.br />

YOU DO NOT HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE, an interesting essay by James Kwak at www.truthout.org Excerpts:

Right now, it appears that the biggest barrier to health care reform is people who think that it will hurt them. According to a New York Times poll, "69 percent of respondents in the poll said they were concerned that the quality of their own care would decline if the government created a program that covers everyone." Since most Americans currently have health insurance, they see reform as a poverty program - something that helps poor people and hurts them. If that's what you think, then this post is for you.

You do not have health insurance. Let me repeat that. You do not have health insurance. (Unless you are over 65, in which case you do have health insurance....)

The basic solution is very simple. In Paul Krugman's words: "regulation of insurers, so that they can't cherry-pick only the healthy, and subsidies, so that all Americans can afford insurance." I know that there are lots of details that consume people who know health care better than I do, and I know those details are important. But as an individual who is worried about his or her own health insurance (and that is the point of this post), that's what you want. You want to know that if you lose your job, you won't be shut out because you're too sick,*** and you won't be shut out because you're too poor.

Now, I admit that if you are over 65, health care reform is not for you, because you are in the one group in our society that enjoys true health insurance - insurance that you cannot lose, that is paid for by taxes, and that is effectively guaranteed by the government. So maybe there's nothing in it for you, except perhaps an improvement to the prescription drug component of Medicare. But I cannot believe that, as the only people who have reliable health insurance, you would oppose health care reform that would provide reliable insurance for the rest of us....

My point here is that the vast majority of us are poor, when it comes to health care, and therefore we should get behind reform out of self-interest.


WTF you babbling on about now? . .
#17 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis
dripping irony . .
br />
Doc whimpers with Barry & Co. - - as they watch the "middle class" use Alinsky tactics AGAINST their own Alinskiy-ites

Don't say "Acorn."
Markh'll just wet himself and hide under the bed.
And don't, ever, turn out the tyke's night light.
LOL!

#19 | Posted by markh| Flag: AUTHORITARIAN PERSONALITY DISORDER NEEDS TREATMENT

gee, the copy & paste ran out & doc's debate descended to name calling & ridicule - -
(hmm, isn't that Alinsky script?)


so I guess I can regress too - -

"sticks & stones . . . . .

#21 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2009-08-09 09:03 AM | Reply | Flag: SCHIZOPHRENIA NEEDS TREATMENT (clinical not vernacular)

MarkH was right on in his last post. The things being done in town halls now are no different than what the libs did for the past 8 years. Actually... they were more violent and obstructive. They also bussed in protesters from out of town, payed homeless people to protest, and had nicely manufactured signs. All of which you are failing to see in the current protests.

Name calling and ridicule?

Name calling, no. I call 'em as I see 'em, and you strike me as a victim -- a not particularly deft one, so ideal material for the herd -- of authoritarian personality disorder. When I see evidence its symptoms have abated, I'll be sure to let you know. (Though I can't imagine why you'd care.)

Ridicule? You expose yourself to that here on a regular basis; there's nothing I can do to either accentuat or reduce its effects.

"sticks & stones . . . . .
#22 | Posted by markh

Like I said, keep your nightlight on.
LOL!

#23 | Posted by moomanfl | Flag: HUYPOCRISY KNOWS NO BOUNDS

#25 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2009-08-09 09:29 AM | Reply | Flag: OBVIOUSLY DRUNK

What the hell is "huypocrisy"?

If you meant "hypocrisy" you will be able to provide quotes from me to back that up?

As I said, nobody in the current protests are being bussed in. They aren't paying the homeless to bolster numbers. The signs are handmade, not slick looking professionally printed jobs, no large groups from funded organizations like "Acorn". All of which we saw in the past 8 years of protests from the left.

The worst you have is that someone with an agenda compiled a list of where the town halls were being held. Nobody busing them there. No evidence of people being paid (despite the accusations), and no professional signs. No uniformed organizations (except SEIU from the libs side). Precious little violence (not like Columbia University for example) except by libs on the protesters.

I can easily support the one and condemn the other without an ounce of hypocrisy. You on the other hand... well you just can't help yourself can you?

As John Dean observes (and he's certainly qualified to arrive at these conclusions):

The Republican Approach to Government: Authoritarian Rule
writ.news.findlaw.com

Republicans rule, rather than govern, when they are in power by imposing their authoritarian conservative philosophy on everyone, as their answer for everything. This works for them because their interest is in power, and in what it can do for those who think as they do. Ruling, of course, must be distinguished from governing, which is a more nuanced process that entails give-and-take and the kind of compromises that are often necessary to find a consensus and solutions that will best serve the interests of all Americans.

Republicans' authoritarian rule can also be characterized by its striking incivility and intolerance toward those who do not view the world as Republicans do. Their insufferable attitude is not dangerous in itself, but it is employed to accomplish what they want, which is to take care of themselves and those who work to keep them in power.

Authoritarian conservatives are primarily anti-government, except where they believe the government can be useful to impose moral or social order (for example, with respect to matters like abortion, prayer in schools, or prohibiting sexually-explicit information from public view). Similarly, Republicans' limited-government attitude does not apply regarding national security, where they feel there can never be too much government activity - nor are the rights and liberties of individuals respected when national security is involved. Authoritarian Republicans do oppose the government interfering with markets and the economy, however - and generally oppose the government's doing anything to help anyone they feel should be able to help themselves.

(and he's certainly qualified to arrive at these conclusions)

Ahhhh... the "Appeal to Authority" fallacy.

I disagree that he is qualified. He simply has the same OPINION as you so you like him. What now?

Hey Doc...I've decided YOUR thugs are better than our "thugs." Our white-headed thugs come with walkers, wheelchairs and such while yours come equipped with nightsticks, SEIU and ACORN jerseys. They are in better physical shape and better equipped. They have been organized by professional "community organizers" sponsored by the messiah and his little friends. They are certainly MUCH better funded which cannot be denied. No wonder OUR thugs are the only ones to have been hospitalized. The only bright spot so far is that at least you haven't sent in the first string...the amazons of Code Pink. We're absolutely lost if that happens.

I'm not "for" anybody's thugs, Jest.

#28 | Posted by moomanfl

Check your own threads, bozo.

#31 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

I suggest YOU check them. Obvious I touched a nerve again. You are just too easy, Doc. Heh heh

As I suggested on the other thread, try and use both hands while typing. You never know, your leg might stop tingling.

And as I said on that same thread:

Probably just your leg getting all tingly.

Sorry... that is reserved for Obama sheep.

Try and use both hands when you type.

Well, considering such Doc gems as "HUYPOCRISY" I think it is obvious who isn't typing with both hands.

As an added bonus... quick thinking about my genitals so much, Cock_Starvin.

I think it is the epitome of hypocricy that the administration, leftist politicians and media would use terms like "mobs" "thugs" and such in reference to the participants in town hall meetings when they have supported mob activities is SO MANY other instances. I can go through a litany of them that have taken place over the years, but I know you're aware of them yourself. Most recently was the ORGANIZED ACORN demonstrations outside AIG headquarters and such. Where was all the fuckin' outrage at that? I have decided to attend the next town hall meeting anywhere near here myself after all this crap. Obama's rant about wanting us to "stop talking" and Pelosi's comments have fired me up after having never attended such an event in my life. All their "hitting back, hitting twice as hard" is backfiring, Doc. This administration and their supporters in Congress are an abomination.

I don't know if that gets the "Bloviator" or just plain old "Boring" flag. I'll get back to you when and if I really give a dam.

As an added bonus... quick thinking about my genitals so much
#34 | Posted by moomanfl

What's that, your New Year's resolution?

Jest,

You hit the nail on the head.

A former "Community Organizer" complaining that the citizens are too organized. Irony to the max.

A "Constitutional Lawyer" complaining that people are exercising their Right to Free Speech. More irony.

What's that, your New Year's resolution?

Damn, Doc. That was a weak retort even by YOUR pathetically low standards. The brain damaged equivalent of "I know you are but what am I".

For your sake I will ignore that one and hope you can do better in the future.

Yeah, you're definitely the arbiter of what is and what is not a good retort.
LMAO

#40 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2009-08-09 10:15 AM

Now it is the brain dead equivalent of "Nuh uh!!!!".

You are just sliding farther down hill, Doc. I am starting to feel sort of ashamed. It is too much like I am picking on a kid from the short bus.

#41 | Posted by moomanfl| Flag: Extensive Short Bus Experience

"I don't know if that gets the "Bloviator" or just plain old "Boring" flag. I'll get back to you when and if I really give a dam."

I know you "give a dam," Doc, and I think you're disappointed with recent activities by the leadership of the party too. Any self-respecting liberal WOULD be. The inmates are running the asylum in D.C. now and more and more I believe even liberals are finding it difficult to support them. I don't consider you some kind of extreme leftist zealot so I can only imagine your angst, having gone through some angst with the previous administration myself.


The Republican Approach to Government: Authoritarian Rule
writ.news.findlaw.com

Republicans rule, rather than govern, when they are in power by imposing their authoritarian conservative philosophy on everyone, as their answer for everything. This works for them because their interest is in power, and in what it can do for those who think as they do. Ruling, of course, must be distinguished from governing, which is a more nuanced process that entails give-and-take and the kind of compromises that are often necessary to find a consensus and solutions that will best serve the interests of all Americans.

Republicans' authoritarian rule can also be characterized by its striking incivility and intolerance toward those who do not view the world as Republicans do. Their insufferable attitude is not dangerous in itself, but it is employed to accomplish what they want, which is to take care of themselves and those who work to keep them in power.

Authoritarian conservatives are primarily anti-government, except where they believe the government can be useful to impose moral or social order (for example, with respect to matters like abortion, prayer in schools, or prohibiting sexually-explicit information from public view). Similarly, Republicans' limited-government attitude does not apply regarding national security, where they feel there can never be too much government activity - nor are the rights and liberties of individuals respected when national security is involved. Authoritarian Republicans do oppose the government interfering with markets and the economy, however - and generally oppose the government's doing anything to help anyone they feel should be able to help themselves.


Excellent link, Doc. Describes Republicans to a tee.

#41 | Posted by moomanfl| Flag: Extensive Short Bus Experience

#42 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2009-08-09 10:24 AM

Wow... first correct thing you have said. I was trained to DRIVE them. You remind me of a few of the students.

I'm hoping for the best, Jest. I'm not impressed with the shouting at townhalls by opponents of currently proposals regarding health care. And, honestly, I've never approved of that coming from the left, either.

I've always opposed that sort of behavior -- violent protest, obviously, but I'm talking about this tactic of trying to drown out opposing views through shouting -- and saw it as immensely counterproductive on at least two counts.

First, it's damn bad manners and detracts from the ideal of a free and open society with free and open discussion and debate.

When that line doesn't work, there's the fallback position: It's incredibly counterproductive behavior because it, at best, pisses people off so they don't want to talk and, at worst, scares the beejaybers out of them.

Poor ol' Rodney King was, at least on this, right: "People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along?"

Evidently, the answer's, "No." And more's the pity.

"They pretend that opposition to "Obama's plan" is the same thing as support for our present system. About half of those opposed to Obama's plan are only opposed because they want more basic reform, like single payer. Funny how most corporate media outlets don't bother to include that distinction when they present poll numbers."

That's an important distinction which holds for all criticism of Obama because he plays to what he thinks is the center.

c'mon guys take it easy - -
it's only natural for Doc to get defensive and anxious about having to think for himself if big gov't is scaled back - even a little

The conclusion in Alan Wolfe's "'The Authoritarian Personality' Revisited" in The Chronicle of Higher Education (10/7/05)(www.bc.edu) :

"The United States did change in the years after their book [The Authoritarian Personality]was published (in 1950], but those changes revealed what might have been the biggest mistake the authors made: They looked for subjects among students and union members when they should have been looking in the corridors of power."

#46 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

OK, Doc, now that we got THAT all out of the way, may I go back to calling you a dick-headed educator lost in the marble halls of academe, and posting Rasmussen polls to piss off SanAntonioRogue?

But of course, you...you...you Confederate in the attic.

Marble halls? Did you say, "marble halls"? Y'mean they got games n' stuff?

"marble halls of academe"

#50 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2009-08-09 10:38 AM | Reply | Flag: never been inside a university

Last time I saw any marble halls was in an Italian church; Bare concrete and bad lighting here.

"Bare concrete and bad lighting here."

Par for the course. Have a friend who's at a place where his department's office were in with the zoology department's. Everything was hunky-dorey until folks showed up for work after a long weekend when the electricity went out, the large animal freezer shut down, and the camel thawed out.

I've always opposed that sort of behavior -- violent protest, obviously, but I'm talking about this tactic of trying to drown out opposing views through shouting --
#46 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis
again, it's not rocket science -

working class America is finally acting on the realization of what that very behavior got for others over the last 40 yrs - -

SDS, BUS, Weathermen, Panthers, ect formed ACORN Inc. and literally got BILLIONS thrown at them for acting STUPID

the middle class would simply appreciate BILLIONS thrown in their direction for acting SMART

"They pretend that opposition to "Obama's plan" is the same thing as support for our present system. About half of those opposed to Obama's plan are only opposed because they want more basic reform, like single payer. Funny how most corporate media outlets don't bother to include that distinction when they present poll numbers."

Actually I just sent Gregory (Meet the Press) an e-mail. They did the same thing this morning. I told them I get that from cable, I expect better when I set aside an hour on Sunday morning.

You're wasting your time with these idiots, Doc.

The man is one of the biggest bull-shitters ever.

"Last time I saw any marble halls was in an Italian church; Bare concrete and bad lighting here."

That's because you're hiding out in your mom's basement Zat. We know you've been camping out there for years in order to escape the disastrous effects of global warming. We also don't believe you were in a church in Italy, seein' as how you abhor them mackeral snappers so much and subscribe to the religion of "Climate Change."

I've always opposed that sort of behavior -- violent protest, obviously, but I'm talking about this tactic of trying to drown out opposing views through shouting -- and saw it as immensely counterproductive on at least two counts.

#46 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

I guess that means you condem the union thugs that beat-up the man at a meeting a few days ago. You know, the incident that was caught on tape.

So it's a red herring that the Docforthcork Unity's of the world are supposed to just accept

And then you go ahead and introduce one of your own by implying that our system will work the same way as UKs if the bill is passed. Don't lecture people on logic until you get a grasp of it yourself.

"HITLER RANTS ABOUT OBAMA HEALTHCARE AND RIGHT WINGERS"

www.youtube.com

It is a physical impossibility to add more people to the system, cut payments and still maintain the same level of care. Call it rationing, or a death list, or managed care, or whatever you like, but the end result of Obama's plan will be diminished quality of health care and more suffering and premature deaths.

Fix the pre-existing condition problem and move on.

"Drug Industry Helping Obama Overhaul Health Care"

"The campaign, now in its early stages, includes television advertising under PhRMA's own name and commercials aired in conjunction with the liberal group, Families USA."

"Numerous people with knowledge of PhRMA's plans said they had been told it would likely reach $150 million and perhaps $200 million. They spoke on condition of anonymity, saying they were not authorized to divulge details."

"Even before the announcement, according to several individuals, the White House sought help from PhRMA in passing legislation."

www.foxnews.com

How is that "Hope and Change" working out?

"We will pass on giving you the operation, take a pill"
--- Dr Obama ---

Barry could refute the idea of the Government trying to destroy the best health care system in the world except for the fact that it's true.

It is a physical impossibility to add more people to the system, cut payments and still maintain the same level of care.

How is this adding more people to the system? The people are still getting cared for the hospitals are taking a loss there and having to add it to your and my payments. It's not adding any people to the system just shuffling how payment is made for some of those people.

Frankly I am a bit tired of having to pay 1400 for a 500 dollar MRI because half the other people don't pay for theirs. If the government wants to tax me an extra a year and my MRI cost goes back down to where it should be then big deal it comes out in the wash. The hope would be that preventative care would reduce cost even more but somehow I don't buy that part. That might require proper diets and maybe even exercise by us lazy americans.

The hope would be that preventative care would reduce cost even more but somehow I don't buy that part.

That is the part I have trouble with also and it is significant to me as it represnts the main reason why I would get behind universal health care.

However, we Americans live crappy lives with regard to how we take care of ourselves. Preventative care won't solve that. I know plenty of people who already have access to "preventative care" and it doesn't get them off their ass to utilize it.

#65 | Posted by TaoWarrior

I would love to see the math on this one.

Why do you pay for an MRI? SHitty insurance I would say. OH, that's right BK does not provide health care insirance does it.

Yeah and if I worked at BK I would have 1400 to pay on an MRI.

It's called HDHP and it IMHO is the answer to our health care issues. I know every cost of every procedure and work to control my own cost. When a Dr. wants a CYA test done I tell them not to waste my money. I pay the first 5450 of my health care then I get 100% paid after that point.

It is a physical impossibility to add more people to the system, cut payments and still maintain the same level of care. Call it rationing, or a death list, or managed care, or whatever you like, but the end result of Obama's plan will be diminished quality of health care and more suffering and premature deaths.


All I see in the face of this statement are rankings of the US regarding Healthcare. Stats such as "quality of healthcare", "infant mortality", "life expectancy" etc..

I accept where we are ranked. What I don't accept is that a universal healthcare system here will move us up those on those rankings.

For the reasons posted in Disney's post.

"Barry could refute the idea of the Government trying to destroy the best health care system in the world except for the fact that none of the proposed changes will effect the French health care system.
But the loons will still accuse him of trying to mess with the 37th best health care system in the world.

I've always opposed that sort of behavior -- violent protest, obviously, but I'm talking about this tactic of trying to drown out opposing views through shouting -- and saw it as immensely counterproductive on at least two counts.
#46 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

I guess that means you condem the union thugs that beat-up the man at a meeting a few days ago. You know, the incident that was caught on tape.
#59 | Posted by Sniper

See #46 above.

Oh, since we're talking about tapes, you ever find that one of John Kerry on 9/11, or is that something we'll just agree to drop because you can't produce it?

the middle class would simply appreciate BILLIONS thrown in their direction for acting SMART
#54 | Posted by markh

Well, aside from the obvious fact that you're not a spokesperson for the middle class as a group, what you're suggesting -- Mau-Mauing the flak cathers (as Tom Wolfe put it so well) -- will only succeed in further marginalizing the idiots who adopt that course.

No way in fuck this guy will be ousted in 2012. W is burned into our brains. Give us something better than Bobby Jindahl. How about Ron Paul? Sure, there are nutjobs following him, just as there are lockstep Obamamaniacs, but the guy doesn't give a fuck, and that's cool to us youngsters. Also, decent competition and debate brings out the best in everything, so let's see it, dammit!

EB,

What would be awesome (once again IMHO) would be a universal single payer HDHP. Gov would cover catastrophic stuff but the first $xx.xx would be each Americans responsibility, include a free anual physical for everyone in the deal so no one would skip that cause of the 150 buck cost. Allow us all to have tax advantage HSA's to allow us to save up the money.

Yes it would require a small tax but would actualy keep the government from having to shell out too much a year. It would take the fear of bankrupcy from the middle class, Insurance companies could still charge for coverage of that first ammount if they wanted to or a suplemental plan that might pay for private rooms etc.

Frankly I am a bit tired of having to pay 1400 for a 500 dollar MRI because half the other people don't pay for theirs. If the government wants to tax me an extra a year and my MRI cost goes back down to where it should be then big deal it comes out in the wash.
#65 | Posted by TaoWarrior
actually that's kinda logical & I could agree - except

. . . when gov't handling & administrative fees are added in

. . and factor that it'll be administered by post office & BMV employees

your $1400 MRI is a mere pleasant memory from days gone by

Insurance companies could still charge for coverage of that first ammount if they wanted to or a suplemental plan that might pay for private rooms etc.

Actually there are already high deductible plans that have created a market for supplemental plans to cover deductibles, incidental expenses etc.....

I like your idea Tao, but I'm afraid that bloodthirsty extremists like Danniforth just won't accept it if it includes an insurance company and personal responsibility from Americans.

However, I see it as reality at some point.

Markh,

Do you really think the gov. admin fees will be higher than insurance companies? I actualy get a pretty good rate because I pay upfront and they do not have to file.

The same place already has to file for medicare/medicaid so the processes are already in place now. They have to file with the government and whatever insucance walks through the door so instead of one procedure they have dozens, this could save them money there.

Heck if they payment for service went down 2/3 they would probably still come out ahead getting paid for all the work they do.

Eb,

Thanks I agree my idea will not happen but I think it is a good one that most Americans would support. I am trying to keep the debate rational and free of lies and misconceptions. Since getting MS I have really seen how screwed up health care in this country is. What we have is not working and I am not afraid of trying something new. What I am afraid of is any plan made, or not made, by fear, lies and misconceptions.

The debate needs to be based on facts and reality, that is the only way we will get a workable system.

This president said that this health care system would be like the VA. Well ask a vet how well the VA works.... My father is a vet and has waited as long as 8 hours to see a doctor. Is that what you want for your family? I am not angry and I have not been told what to say. I just want americans to be informed...

read the bill or drink the koolaid

energycommerce.house.gov

no way in fuck this guy will be ousted in 2012.
#73 | Posted by Scrumplet
ya overlooked Dem primary opposition

didn't LBJ bow out (forced) after 1 term??

The same place already has to file for medicare/medicaid so the processes are already in place now.
#77 | Posted by TaoWarrior
WARNING HERETIC!! . .

medicare IS Aetna Insurance Inc. . . .
please turn yourself in to
flag@whitehouse.gov asap

thanks in advance

One term Senator = One term President.

The only way to get pre-existing coverage is to require everyone including healthy teenagers to pay for health insurance.

I'll be sending emails to Obama about any posters I see lying about him. I then hope Obama sends storm troopers to your house to silence you.

What about dental and eye care. Ain't us po folks entitled to free teefus too.

medicare IS Aetna Insurance Inc. . . .

Since the beginning of the Medicare program, CMS has contracted with private companies to operate as intermediaries between the government and medical providers.[5] These contractors are commonly already in the insurance or health care area. Contracted processes include claims and payment processing, call center services, clinician enrollment, and fraud investigation.


So yes Atena is a contractor for them. So are several other insurance companies. Do you think that will change? Does it matter? If it is still contracted out do you like it more or worse? I don't quite know what you are after besides being against this bill. It is kinda hard to debate with you when you don't really show a specific objection just a general I don't like this kind of thing.

Since he has admitted that he has not read the bill I question his ability to refute items in a bill he has not read.

#84 | Posted by jackass

You have got to be some rich white kid doing this as a joke. All stereo types aside, there could not possibly be a black man in America that acts this stupid. You can't think you are helping Obama. Every word you post is prolonging a stereotype.

"ya overlooked Dem primary opposition
didn't LBJ bow out (forced) after 1 term??"

I fail to see the equivalency here.

The people who are yelling and screaming about Obama are, basically, Republicans. In 1968 the Republicans were trying to politicize the war by promising a "secret plan" that resulted in nearly doubling the number of American dead by the time they were done. The real heat on LBJ was coming not from the GOP but from pissed off Dems.

So the situation vis a vis Obama is that the heated shouting is coming from the GOP, not the people who are best situated to mount an effective challenge against a sitting Democratic POTUS.

Even if there is Democratic opposition -- the Blue Dogs come to mind as "possibles" in this respect -- they're fighting for the same bone the Republicans are gnawing: conservative whites (males in particular) who live below the Mason-Dixon Line. The Dems are going to eject Obama in order to launch a New Southern Strategy? Highly dobtful. Indeed, laughable. (Although the suicidal tendencies of the Democratic Big Tent should not be overlooked. Still, in this regard, a dubious proposition, at best.)

Plus, don't forget one critical element to the 2012 calculus (bearing in mind that in politics today's wisdom is tomorrow's fuel for the bonfire of vanitie). It snapes right to the forefront of the discussion when you ask yourself just one question: What credible candidate does the GOP have on tap for the 2012 presidential nomination?

Huckabee? Please.

Gingrich? Bring it on.

Palin? The Democratic Party's wetdream.

Romney? Probably the best salesman of the lot, with plenty of financing, but also a likely loser.

So, tell me, where is the insurrection? And I'm talking credible insurrection, because there are plenty of people who might vote in Democratic primaries who think Obama and Congress haven't moved nearly far enough anywhere near fast enough [frankly, I'm among them, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and he'd certainly get my vote over any of the GOPers on offer].

So where is this insurrection to come from and who's going to lead it?


I'll be sending emails to Obama about any posters I see lying about him. I then hope Obama sends storm troopers to your house to silence you.

#84 | Posted by jackass at 2009


stir....thats jackass proving he knows how to pick out screen names..surely noone is that silly

but jackass.....please be sure that you tell the white house that I said he was a FUCKING LIAR...


DEMS WORRIED ABOUT opposition being organized


HEY dems...maybe you should contact the EIGHT MILLION people you have on your datebase called
'ORGANIZE AMERICA'...


what a bunch of liberal fucks

but jackass.....please be sure that you tell the white house that I said he was a FUCKING LIAR...

#90 | Posted by afkabl2

Hopefully you will end up where Delay should have went.

YES I HAVE A LINK

notice at the bottom

Paid for by organizing for america

what a bunch of lieng hypocritical assholes.

OOPs..sorry jackass...wasnt talking to you this time....


my.barackobama.com

BUT HE DIDNT

and why

NOT CONVICTED OF ANYTHING...but wait a min
I READ IT Here how guilty he was

and look at the DOUBLE standard alive and well

read comments from liberal fucks about lecturing us on justice in the dodds case....and YET....delay is still guilty??

THAT is the best example I have seen in a while
thank you sir for your help in this expose..

So, tell me, where is the insurrection? And I'm talking credible insurrection, because there are plenty of people who might vote in Democratic primaries who think Obama and Congress haven't moved nearly far enough anywhere near fast enough [frankly, I'm among them, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and he'd certainly get my vote over any of the GOPers on offer].

So where is this insurrection to come from and who's going to lead it?

#89 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

ummm, Hilary & Bill know where all the bodies are buried -
figurative or literally ... take your pick

In the UK cancer victims have three times the mortality they do here.

So I decided to look into this one. Not surprisingly it appears to be yet another outlandish rumor.

According to the World Health Organization, in the year 2005, 23.2% of deaths in the United States were from cancer, and 21.8% of deaths in the UK were from cancer. apps.who.int

In 2002, the age standardized death rate from cancer in the UK was 143 per 1000; US was 134 per 100,000. Triple? no. About seven percent higher. apps.who.int

According to other sources, I found that 25% of deaths in the United States are from cancer, and 28% of deaths in the UK are from cancer (though I believe those are from 2005 and 2007 respectively). (Sources:
www.cdc.gov ,
www.statistics.gov.uk )

I suspect that if cancer does indeed have three times the mortality rate in the UK, it is because the UK has an older (less likely to survive cancer) population. This is seen in the non-age-standardized cancer mortality rates, 256 and 192 per 100,000 in the UK and US respectively. Which is still not even close to triple.

Argh, make that UK was 143 per 100,000; US was 134 per 100,000

Snoofy,

For whatever reason there are some here that refuse to see a problem with our health care. Or they admit there is a problem but do not see any need to try and fix it. You can argue with them till you are blue in the face but they will still insist that we have awesome health care and no need to change.

It is perhaps a Fool's Errand, Tao. I'm well aware of that.

A sensible dialogue remains impossible when falsehoods like "UK cancer victims have three times the mortality" are repeated, verbatim, ad nauseam.

Some people have little to offer to a discussion, so they just cheerlead. That's to be expected. But misinformation should not be tolerated.

Ultimately I'm just trying to lead this horse to water. After that, it's out of my hands.

Snoofy,

Ultimately I'm just trying to lead this horse to water. After that, it's out of my hands.

I'm right there with you honestly I want a fix, I am not convinced that the current proposal will solve anything but at least it is an attempt. I don't think our government can come out with anything that will be a good solution as compromises will dilute or destroy any good solutions but it is a start.

A sensible dialogue remains impossible when falsehoods like "UK cancer victims have three times the mortality" are repeated, verbatim, ad nauseam.

I agree and have tried to do the same only to be ignored or ridiculed for it. Ahh well like you said all we can do is try.

"Obama health-care plan contains affirmative action and subsidies for left-wing community organizers"

"The massively-costly health-care reform bills backed by Obama are riddled with provisions mandating "preference" for organizations that exhibit "cultural competency," a politically-correct code word for a focus on minorities. So racial preferences, not cutting costs or expanding coverage, may end up being the top priority in some cases."

www.examiner.com

I'm simply amazed that so many here actually are ignorant enough to believe the government can give them better healthcare. You do not have to read about the VA, just look at 'all' the government does so very well' - EXTREME SATIRE INTENDED!

The new cool... all american from clothes to car to food. Good luck being the ultimate american badass! If it ain't american, then it ain't sh!t!!

If there are coherent arguments against reforming health care, let's hear them.

Are you saying you haven't heard any?

Forget Sarah Palin. I agree she is an idiot.

#5 | Posted by eberly

There has only been a handful of GOP that have offered a solution (Daryl Isa-R cali)
the rest are not offering anything.

I think it is the epitome of hypocricy that the administration, leftist politicians and media would use terms like "mobs" "thugs" and such in reference to the participants in town hall meetings when they have supported mob activities is SO MANY other instances. I can go through a litany of them that have taken place over the years, but I know you're aware of them yourself. Most recently was the ORGANIZED ACORN demonstrations outside AIG headquarters and such. Where was all the fuckin' outrage at that? I have decided to attend the next town hall meeting anywhere near here myself after all this crap. Obama's rant about wanting us to "stop talking" and Pelosi's comments have fired me up after having never attended such an event in my life. All their "hitting back, hitting twice as hard" is backfiring, Doc. This administration and their supporters in Congress are an abomination.

#35 | Posted by jestgettinalong

sorry dude.. your side like the taliban and al qaeda only recognize one thing.. Power. If that means by force so be it.

You assholes had your chance..

Fix the pre-existing condition problem and move on.

#62 | Posted by Dinsey

no get rid of the middleman..aka insurance and add everyone to the medicare plan as an option.. it would be easier and better than a 1200 page document.

As the health care debate rages on, I keep thinking about a report I saw on 60 Minutes some years ago. The segment, which I believe was hosted by Lesley Stahl, revealed that many aspects of our health care system was being overtaken by organized crime (literally, not metaphorically) and the prediction was made that health care costs would skyrocket out of control in about a decade as a result. I have tried googling the show but can't find it. I think it would be great if someone could locate the episode and use the information in it to help combat the seemingly growing resistance to the passage of a health care bill.

Anybody else remember this report?

(Sorry for the double post. Wasn't sure the thread I first posted this in was getting much traffic.)

Legio,

The government is the largest middle man I know of.

Snoofers,

In every category but one the US rocks the world in the Estimated Age-adjusted Survival (%) from 11 Cancer Types.
intl-caonline.amcancersoc.org

If you look at lung cancer, the US is 21% western Europe is 9% survivability.

Here is some more good data....
intl-caonline.amcancersoc.org

In the same ranking from the WHO that put the US number 37, it gave the US a number 1 ranking for responsivness. When dealing with cancer response time is critical.

Thanks Andrea, that's a good read.

I would say Table 3, "Cumulative Risk of Mortality Age 0-64" probably comes closest to telling us how well cancer is mitigated overall.

The risk of dying from cancer before age 65:
North America: 5.8% for men and 4.9% for women.
Northern Europe: 5.8% for men and 5.2% for women.
Western Europe: 7.0% for men and 4.6% for women.

Taking North America as a proxy for USA, we are a little better for men and about the same for women compared to Northern/Western Europe. Certainly we are not three times better off as has been stated. (I actually saw a Congresscritter make that remark on the floor of the House the other day; when I heard it repeated here I had to find out the truth.)

That 7.0% for men in Western Europe is why you see the smoking ban adopted just about everywhere in Western Europe over the past few years.

Of course Japan beats all three, and 5.7% and 3.5%. And somehow, Central America has the lowest mortality, 3.5% and 4.5%.

And as you stated, responsiveness, including preventive screening, is key. That's likely why we see higher incidence of cancer (caught before it's too advanced) in the USA and (in males) higher survival too.

sorry dude.. your side like the taliban and al qaeda only recognize one thing.. Power. If that means by force so be it.


You assholes had your chance..

#105 | Posted by Legio


What does this mean? Had your chance?

Looks like Congressmen all over are having town hall meetings and are getting schooled by the constiuency.

It's more like: "The Dems have their Chance" right now. If they blow it, it's all over for them.

I think Sara 'Wasilla Quitter' Palin's idea of a Death Squads are ridiculous, but in her case perhaps we could make an exception....just this once.

Palin should pretend to be a deaf mute. She's only serving her image as bat shit crazy by continuing to speak.

Obama refutes the lies being told about health care reform by Scary Failin' and other prominent rethugs?

Good fer him.

As many people have stated previouisly the need for health care reform in America is undeniable.

Is the current health care reforn legislation a silver bullet that will solve all of the problems that have accrued to date?

Nope.

Will the political process in DC water down the reforms and take the teeth out of the proposals?

Most likely.

That sed and understood doing nothing is not an option.

Health care reform *is* coming to Americaa.

Lead, follow or get the fuck outta the way.

Be Well.

I think Sara 'Wasilla Quitter' Palin's idea of a Death Squads are ridiculous

Agreed. Well... except perhaps fer the ones where old folks are put out on ice floes to die or released into the wild and then hunted down by helicopter.

Those ones were ridiculous too but they were also teh funneh!

^_^

Be Well.

We don't need GOP votes to pass health care reform. All they care about are big pharma and the insurance industry and screw American citizens. Screw the GOP. Biggest bunch of liars this country has ever seen.

Ok, all you unemployed. Here is your chance to make a difference and help out 'the one' at the same time.

Obama needs your help. He is looking for "grassroot" people to promote his healthcare plan.

"**TALENTED LEADERS needed to work for health care reform $11-16/hour**

Aug 7 Make social change Help Pass Obama's Health Care Reform!!! (Sacramento)

Aug 4 Help pass Obama's Health Care Reform!!! Earn $9-14 an hour!!! (Sacramento)

Aug 3 ***Help Pass Obama's Health Care Plan and Earn $325-$500/Week (Sacramento, CA)

Jul 31 Help Pass Obama's Health Care Reform! Earn $325-550 per week! (Sacramento)

newsbusters.org


Help Obama shout down those "astroturf" protesters.

"Astroturf For Healthcare $10-$15 Hr!"

"From one of the dozens of current ads on Craigslist:

"ORGANIZE TO PASS HEALTHCARE REFORM!!! EARN $10-$15/HR!!! (Los Angeles)"

sweetness-light.com

Talk about misinformation:

"Barack Obama Campaign Promise No. 517: Negotiate health care reform in public sessions televised on C-SPAN"

"Obama said he'd televise health reform negotiations on C-SPAN"

"so far, substantial negotiations on health reform have been held behind closed doors. These include two agreements with the drug industry and hospitals"

Robert Gibbs: "Obama "has demonstrated more transparency than any president,"

www.politifact.com

Again....talk about misinformation!


Obama will fail in this attempt at a hostile takeover of the healthcare industry.


Public supplied healthcare and private supplied cannot coexist.
It is simple math.
Funding of private supplied healthcare ( i.e. YOUR HEALTH INSURANCE THAT COVERS YOUR FAMILY WHICH YOU GET THROUGH YOUR COMpANY)
WILL DISSAPPEAR WHEN YOUR COMPANY HAS TO END UP PAYING FOR oBAMA'S PUBLIC HEALTHCARE.


So the bullshit promises from Obama that he is not trying to eliminate the private option is just that - devious contrived bullshit.


The survival of America is at stake and any citizen that shows up at these democrat propaganda junkets and threatens their representative with removal from office is doing a public service. They are protecting America and its' citizens.


USA TODAY]


pelosi and hoyer call americans who disagree
UN AMERICAN


well libs who screamed at that when you thought you were unfairly called that on iRaq


what say you??

8roper

YOU UNamerican manufactored unruly mob nazi who is bent on sabataging democracy

keep it up....

How about an amendment to the Bill that would discontinue the current health insurance plan that members of Congress and the President enjoy, and forcing them to the "public option?" I'll be a believer with that one amendment.

and kathleen parker finnaly got something right

SCHUMER AND DURBIN

call health care dissenters

"IRRELEVANT"........

oh yeah you goddamn democrats........we'll see who's irrelevant when you are forced back into the smaller minority offices in congress.

DURBIN.........gulag, nazi camp...

pelosi and hoyer call americans who disagree
UN AMERICAN

#120 | Posted by afkabl2

Now Ish, did they say THAT, or did they actually say this?

"Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American. Drowning out the facts is how we failed at this task for decades."

blogs.usatoday.com

"Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American."

the use of the phrase : "drowning out oppposing views" is dubious.

I have not seen a video in which a forum was shut down.

I have, though, seen some proactive cancellations all as part of posturing by the dems to make it look like they are "too scared" to hold their town hall in front of an "angry mob"

nice try
didnt work

mike solo on fox this morning says that in the middle of the night a visitor came to his house and warned him or GOVERNMENT REPRISAL for his statments to dingle about solos son and health care..
said his name was in the police department and they were watching him

LIBERAL GOVERNMENT AT work

he challenged them to come back in the daylight and he would defend his property even with his 2nd amendment right and face prison if needbe

but I guess he is just an unamerican political hack

you people are about to disgust me with your support of these govt tactics..

and sa
I know what the FUCK it said and I know what the FUCK this twat meant..

so thanks anyway but no thanks

they ARE DESPERATE

#126 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2009-08-10 12:02 PM | Reply | Flag Believes Anything

#125 | Posted by 8roper at 2009-08-10 12:00 PM | Reply | Flag: No Link

I know what the FUCK it said and I know what the FUCK this twat meant..

#127 | Posted by afkabl2

Sure you do. And such colorful language certainly makes you look ever so much more intelligent.

Fact remains - you lied to try to bolster your argument. So don't try to claim any nonexistent high ground. You have no scruples or ethics in pursuit of your agenda and that makes you at least as bad as those you accuse.

America--#37 in Health Care

#1 in Health spending--Thanks to Nixon and the republicans--the leadership of gullible fools.

mike solo on fox this morning says that in the middle of the night a visitor came to his house and warned him or GOVERNMENT REPRISAL ...

#126 | Posted by afkabl2

OMFG! Was it the ghost of Christmas past!

Interesting answer by Congressman Michael Burgess (R-TX) when asked at a townhall meeting why, if the GOP was so concerned about health care reform now, they hadn't done anything about it while they had total control of Congress and the WH.


"My leadership probably wouldn't want me to say this, but it's easier to poke holes in someone else than it is to defend your own product."

"My leadership probably wouldn't want me to say this, but it's easier to poke holes in someone else than it is to defend your own product."
#133 | Posted by SanAntonioRogue

If this is news to anyone.....


#125 | Posted by 8roper at 2009-08-10 12:00 PM | Reply | Flag: No Link

#129 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob


Boob I did not think it was very hard to find,

It's not a big secret ....

but OK I will give you a link

www.stltoday.com


And what you have here is a chickenshit McCaskill not being able to go through with the sham of a town hall meeting, knowing that she is there to try and push an unpopular agenda - she gets the organizers to cancel, citing "safety concerns"


spineless.

If this is news to anyone.....

#134 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine

Not news, but a classic example of accidentally telling the truth. They have no real ideas of their own and the primary goal is to use the issue as a bludgeon against the President.


"My leadership probably wouldn't want me to say this, but it's easier to poke holes in someone else than it is to defend your own product."

#133 | Posted by SanAntonioRogue


Why do you guys keep repeating the secret recipe for election '08 ....
???

It isn't a secret. Bush perfected it against John "black love child and traitor in Vietnam prison" McCain and John "Two tours coward and swift boat user" Kerry. Maybe we just don't like Johns.

John McCain
John Kerry
John Obama

from Eberly near the top...

"If there are coherent arguments against reforming health care, let's hear them."

"Are you saying you haven't heard any?"

I will say I haven't heard any...
lets see...

with (what has been dubbed by the Right as Obamacare--somehow both a socialist AND a communist planned takeover)
you get...more choice...
more options...
can keep your doctor if you're happy...
can keep your insurance plan if you are still happy after comparing it...
it will force private insurance to cover things like Colonoscopies as patient deserved proceedures...
which will, help people who traditionally would put off such costly proceedures get early diagnosis...
which would lower long term health care costs
passed on to society in the form of rate hikes...
will prevent insurance companies from denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions...
will help small businesses find more affordable solutions, by offering more competition w private
insurance...
And lastly, it should help insure millions of Americans whom previously could not afford health care...

I mean, unless you are an insurance salesman, a greedy/corrupt doctor or health care professional solely looking out for yourself,
or, an idiot on the Right who doesn't know what they hate about the plan but just wants to hate it because it was proposed by a Democratic President--how in the hell CAN you be against this?!!

Competition is almost always a better thing...

Most "intellectually qualified" college kids would agree... Microsoft is an evil monopoly, never shop at Walmart, and its Democrat or bust. However, one of these things is not like the others (How many of you remember Sesame Street?). Regardless of the "D" or "R" prefix to our representatives name's, there's a parallel between all of these that's rarely addressed.

How can one accept the workings of the current administration and oppose shopping at Walmart or using Windows products? Think about it for a second... Let's play out the health care scenario for instance. Isn't our current government promoting a Microsoft OS-like system? If healthcare is going to be the Internet Explorer (ya know, already included with the government's "OS package"), what's going to happen to Netscape Navigator (the alternative to health care ie., insurance) and the even smaller 3rd party produced browsers? True, OB care isn't a stated as being a "single-care plan", but it rolls it right into one just like IE diverted users away from using Navigator. IE's popularity wasn't the result of function as much as it was that the users sought convenience and was generally naive to all the bugs and backdoors. And, what about Firefox - By far, a much better browser? Yet even though it is a free app, IE still far outnumbers Mozilla exponentially. It has become the nature of our lazy-ass society to have automated processes do it for us instead of making any effort on our own.

Doesn't handing over the citizen's rights and responsibilities over to the government, turn our voice into a Walmart mega-store? In other words... wont Big Government, like Walmart, be offering a slew of diversified products (encompassing markets like electronics, grocery, sporting goods, automotive, and gasoline all available at one location) that, again because of convenience, slowly strangles the mom & pop shops out of business? Although we hear things like, "It is not our intention to harm the local small down-town stores in your neighborhood" or "...you will always be able to choose where you can shop." But, the buying power the mega-store can flex by one-by-one absorbing loss in one area to offer outstanding deals in another shuts out the lil' shop's ability to compete. How long will it take before you turn around to by some sandals and the Chinese-made crap-ass jandals turn your feet yellow and give the kids chemical burns?

Although our politicians claim the Health Care bill will not close options affecting the already established insurance options, it likely will not do anything to protect them. This in itself will no doubt affect insurance. What we're hearing from the government is basic lawyer semantics. Many of our concerns here are not necessarily what today's intentions may be, but how the future government powers-that-be utilize it or exploit the bills loopholes.

Like the Patriot Act... it was "intended to benefit the citizens" by, for one, allowing wire tapping and the like in order to protect us from terrorists. But, now it's already gone a step further by allowing the admin to tap any of its private citizens... not just terrorist suspects. It's the same as "A war on terror" as the term Terror is an abstract description of what that war was to encompass. I mean, a terrorist can be just about anyone who verbally disagrees with the masses, and never defines the end. I don't know about you, but I call it a dangerous power-grab. This is hardly different.

#135 | Posted by 8roper at 2009-08-10 12:21 PM | Reply | Flag

What you see as fear, I see as common sense, and a concern for citizens who aren't being paid to disrupt the democratic process. The "protesters" could have still shown up and protested--but the cameras and the paychecks weren't there.

United States--#37 in health care

United States--50th in longevity

United States--first in Health care spending.

Thanks to Nixon and the republicans---the party of the gullible and easily led.

I wish somebody would figure out whether we're reforming health care or health insurance. With all the flip-flops, I've lost track

We're coming

In every category but one the US rocks the world in the Estimated Age-adjusted Survival (%) from 11 Cancer Types.
intl-caonline.amcancersoc.org
If you look at lung cancer, the US is 21% western Europe is 9% survivability.
Here is some more good data....
intl-caonline.amcancersoc.org
In the same ranking from the WHO that put the US number 37, it gave the US a number 1 ranking for responsivness. When dealing with cancer response time is critical.
#108 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

they cant compete on an even playing field so adjust the numbers to look like they are number one..

that is fucked up.

Just like economic indicators..you dickweeds would say down is up and black is white if they said they were from Europe, liberal or a minority.

The survival of America is at stake and any citizen that shows up at these democrat propaganda junkets and threatens their representative with removal from office is doing a public service. They are protecting America and its' citizens.

#119 | POSTED BY 8ROPER

The people protesting didn't even vote 99% of the guys in office so how the fuck are you going to throw them out?

newsflash.. yelling real loud and acting like a dick won't remove them from office. Don't even bring we are protecting America into the conversation. That is assuming you even know what the right course of action would be which is obvious the right doesn't have a clue. The arrogance is astounding.

let us all take a step back and look at one issue first...

Questions....

What has your Congressman or Senator done to benefit for in the past?

Do you believe that your Congressman or Senator is in W.D.C. or politics for that matter to benefit you or Him or Herself?

Aside from creating an armed force that can pretty much blow up anything on the planet... What has Washington DC done for us?

Almost everything that they have ever attempted to regulate has gone bust or is in poor shape...

What you need to think about here is are they telling us the truth or a bunch of BS...

What citizen in his or her right mind would stick to paying insurance costs if Obama care is available and has better coverage?

The insurance companies will be done... But what price will they set.... The Governmebt bailes out banks... Lots of other businesses too... Dan Rather even wants a bail out.......

Are we going to pay the Insurance executives to shut the hell up and Go Away?

I would love free healthcare... I am pushing 50... but is it for real?

It hasn't worked well in most other countries that have tried the social option...

I look back on my life and remember all the Bullshit that our government has pulled over on us in my lifetime....

Is this just one more Bull Shit Deal?

When I look at Palosi,,, The clowns around her in the house... Obama..... Even the Republicans... This all just seems out of control...

"Hurry up and pass the bill"... Those words have brought us disaster almost every time they were uttered in the house or senate...

Nothing has changed.... The same clownes who wrecked the system and have been taking oney from it for years are still in charge...

All I am saying is that My thoughts are that they are not doing this for our benifit.... They never have and they never will....

newsflash.. yelling real loud and acting like a dick won't remove them from office. Don't even bring we are protecting America into the conversation.......
#144 | Posted by Legio


You must be the stupidest fuck ever to respond to one of my posts and this is the first and last time I will pay any attention to you-

I SAID : "......and threatens their representative with removal from office .

YES the people are threatening these democrat cronies with possibly losing their seat - i did not say that yelling at them WILL remove them from office I said the people protesting nationalized healthcare are posing a threat of losing office.

If simply yelling at an elected official could possibly REMOVE them from office, as you THINK I said, we would all just go "yell" at Obammy and presto he would be removed.

There.
Now that your head is out of your ass, never repond to my posts by putting your own idiotic words in my mouth ever again.

BY THE WAY

You seem to think that the people who are yelling at these dem congress idiots at the town halls are the minority but they are not.

this legislation is going to die.

I liked that Roper.... That was so enjoyable I burped after I read it

United States--#37 in health care
United States--50th in longevity
United States--first in Health care spending.
Thanks to Nixon and the republicans---the party of the gullible and easily led.
#141 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

Ahhhh. Here we go with the all-knowing stats results again. What does #37 in health care mean? What's the criteria for being the best/worst? Is there a watchdog group to make certain the raw data is accurate and no one's lying to sway political position?

US 50th in longevity... okay. Is this the result of our health care or that we eat shit and sit around and play video games because we subcontracted all of our productive jobs that require effort over seas? How many exercise bikes are in our landfills after discovering their inability to be sold at the garage sale?

1st in spending ...as including government run Medicare/Medicaid? Or are we taking in regards to the treatment options available to Americans... like our hospitals have on-site MRI and CT machines ...or things like birthing pools? :-D Or does it just cost that much to try and keep all the welfare cheating fat-asses alive?

Shove your stats bob. You should know better.


Sarvis can't understand why everybody doesn't enjoy having Obama shove things down their throats, when it brings Doc such joy.

#2 | Posted by cookfish
Doc_SoreAss ...says "to each his own orifice"... he prefers shoving things in another body cavity.

#150 | Posted by reinsurelaw | Flag: Still Upset He Thinks "Wanker" Means "Dick"

Ode to Joy
By Reinsurereflawed
(Inspired and Taken, Each & Every Little Bit, From the DR Posts of Reinsurelaw)

"to each his own orifice"...
love to give the old prostate exam
... used chiefly for vaginal lavage and for enemas
Posted by reinsurelaw: VOMIT

prefers shoving things in another body cavity.
head stuck up there ...
obsessed with other peoples balls and dick size...
Posted by reinsurelaw : Dumb Fuck

he must love dicks,
he probably has a picture of a dick in his wallet,
he probably loves to suck on dicks and
and considers himself an expert on dicks
and dick size
if only you knew that you have to "cock" a gun,
you would probably like them too.
Posted by reinsurelaw : Idiot


Yeah, tweaker, you're a class act alright.


This is all about the Baby Boomers wanting it for free.... The Hippy generation wants to finally share that Coke and teach the world to sing....


They don't want to be in the doughnut hole like thier parents...


FREE


FREE


FREE


They hate the rich.... They wanted commune living when they were 18... So.... Now we will have commune health care....


Everybody sing!!!!


I'd like to teach the world to sing..... In perfect harmony.... I'd like to buy the world a coke and send the bill to my grandkids great great great great great grandchildren.... HAHAHHAH Yippie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks to Nixon and the republicans---the party of the gullible and easily led.

#141 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

you gotta give bob some credit

bringout out the nixon card....nice work fella

would you like to talk about the billions of money wasted on the 'great society'
or how lbj started the raiding of social security.

I KNOW you wouldnt want to talk about jfk and his

TAX CUTS............

harry ried
cancells town halls

mccastle

cancells town halls

caller to TURBIN durbins' office says the lady there said that the senator doesnt "publizise his appearances'..what???

congressman in texas.........would not release town hall info to media

congressman from new york..now setting up phone conferences where questions are taken night before and edited

what a bunch of lousy chickenshit pussies....

"The Commissioner shall provide for a process under which an individual who is described in section 202(d)(3) and has not elected to enroll in an Exchange-participating health benefits plan is automatically enrolled under Medicaid"

Yay! Automatically enrolled! Freedom of choice at last!

We're coming

Oh.. It took me some time to get it.. being a stupid right wing nazi something or another..

It's not freedom OF choice..It's freedom FROM choice

Boy do I feel stupid..

We're coming

Boy do I feel stupid..

So do I.

We're coming

Hell, I thought you was just breathing hard!


congressman from new york..now setting up phone conferences where questions are taken night before and edited


what a bunch of lousy chickenshit pussies....

#154 | Posted by afkabl2

I know! But it's smart.

You can't go in front of the people now, you might get your ass handed to you.

"You can't go in front of the people now, you might get your ass handed to you."

#158 | Posted by Eddie at 2009-08-10 09:17 PM | Reply | Flag: Self-reflective

How can Obama refute anything?? Obama does not have healthcare plan. The only healthcare plan is the House healthcare bill and Obama admits that he has not read it!!!

www.realclearpolitics.com

How does this piece of shit keep pushing a healthcare bill has not read? He has plenty of time to go on romantic dates with wife in Paris and $25,000 taxpayer funded dates to NY with his wife. He has time to pitch like a Girlscout at the All-Star game and bowl "like the Special Olympics or something" but does not have the time to read the $1 trillion healthcare bill that will effect 300 million Americans. Un-F@CKING-Believable!!!

You must be the stupidest fuck ever to respond to one of my posts and this is the first and last time I will pay any attention to you-

I SAID : "......and threatens their representative with removal from office .

YES the people are threatening these democrat cronies with possibly losing their seat - i did not say that yelling at them WILL remove them from office I said the people protesting nationalized healthcare are posing a threat of losing office.

If simply yelling at an elected official could possibly REMOVE them from office, as you THINK I said, we would all just go "yell" at Obammy and presto he would be removed.

There.
Now that your head is out of your ass, never repond to my posts by putting your own idiotic words in my mouth ever again.

#145 | Posted by 8roper

hit a nerve did I? Now go play with the rest of the autistic rethugs dickhead.

every thread has about a dozen repukes flailing wildly..Its invigorating to read.

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