Great. They'll have to steal to cover the cost of their incarceration.

Hey, why the fuck not?

They allow dope dealing in prison.

Prison is just a little pressure cooker for capitalism.

They'll have their connections for when they hit the streets again.

It's a win for Capitalism!

If I don't pay does it mean I don't spend a night in jail????

Indentured servitude in the making.

It would create a financial crisis for ex-cons.
The federal government would likely bail them out.

.....and if they can't pay, then they have to leave the jail ?.......

Convicts paying for their prison? Hmmmm...
Sounds like national health care, come to think of it.

The Founding Fathers hated indentured servitude to the state!

They wrote into the Constitution a GUARANTEE that that form of slavery would not ever be an encouragement to government to create debtor prisons. The 'guarentee' was the process of collecting taxes.

They insisted that NO DIRECT TAXES ON INDIVIDUALS would be made by government, and stated that taxes be excises on goods and services and apportioned to the states based on census!!!

The tyrants of government tried to establish DIRECT TAXATION by passing the 16th Amendment, but were unsuccessful in making that Amendment permission to tax directly, because the Supreme Court found that the Amendment did nothing more than re-define taxes on individuals from being INDIRECT to DIRECT.

They could not tax individuals directly because they still had to apportion by state and census!

All that changed when Democrats were in control, as they were when the 16th was shoved down America's throat, during WWII and where they pleaded with Americans to VOLUNTARILY ALLOW A DIRECT TAX COLLECTION TO FIGHT THE NAZI.

Loyal and patriotic Americans agreed, because it was promised that such DIRECT TAXATION would end when the war was won.

Of course the tyrants of America, Democrats (and the bipartisan tyrants of the Republican party), have continued direct taxation ... and now will jail more and more people to collect revenue ...

The Communists are in charge and you'd better pay, or get jailed to force your labor, or ... get shot like a rightwinger should ...

Sieg Heil! Victory Welfare! That's the Progressive Way - Jail or Pay!

Take your meds Tadly.

Tadowe, ease up.

I don't agree with this. I do think, however, that they shouldn't make life very nice, and should cut down on stuff they get.

Welcome to prison. We know you don't want to be here, and, generally speaking, a lack of money is what brought you here, but we are going to charge you for your stay so that, upon release, you will be stuck with a debt that will all but guarantee you come back to spend more time and money with us.

Privitization of Prisons.

Make prisons a booming business

incentive to imprison?

prisons are becoming privatized. so its just another example of corporations trying to increase their profit margins.

capitalism at its finest. *vomits*

truth beat me to it
;)

aint capitalism the bomb!

So let me get this right. Some people want to make a law, set a penalty for breaking the law, then tax the person thrown in jail in excess of the penalty the law mandates?

This ain't liberals or communists advocating this abomination folks. It's capitalist companies like Haliburton that believe they are above the law. It's the end result of privatizing the business we entrusted to the government, being farmed out for profit.

This ploy has Dick Cheney's prints all over it.

rin, you are stoopid.

I said:

The Founding Fathers hated indentured servitude to the state!

They wrote into the Constitution a GUARANTEE that that form of slavery would not ever be an encouragement to government to create debtor prisons. The 'guarentee' was the process of collecting taxes.

They insisted that NO DIRECT TAXES ON INDIVIDUALS would be made by government, and stated that taxes be excises on goods and services and apportioned to the states based on census!

The tyrants of government tried to establish DIRECT TAXATION by passing the 16th Amendment, but were unsuccessful in making that Amendment a permission to tax directly, because the Supreme Court found that the Amendment did nothing more than re-define taxes on individuals from being INDIRECT to DIRECT.

They still could not tax individuals directly because they still had to apportion by state and census! (Only corporations, other businesses as appropriate, and federal employees were taxed directly.)

All that changed when Democrats were in control during WWII, as they had been when the 16th was shoved down America's throat, and where they pleaded with Americans to VOLUNTARILY ALLOW A DIRECT TAX COLLECTION TO FIGHT THE NAZI.

Presto, chango! The Voluntary Individual Income Tax and Voluntary Withholding became VOLUNTARY!

Loyal and patriotic Americans agreed, because it was promised that such DIRECT TAXATION would end when the war was won.

Of course the petty tyrants of America, Democrats (and the bipartisan tyrants of the Republican party), have continued direct taxation ... and now will jail more and more people to collect revenue ... that is by law, voluntary. Catch-22 sponsored by both Dems and Repubs.

Real tyrants (Communists in my opinion) are in charge and you'd better pay, or get jailed to force your labor ...

Great. They'll have to steal to cover the cost of their incarceration.

---------

Born in debt.

Imprisoned in debt.

Dead in debt.

-----------------------------
So let me get this right. Some people want to make a law, set a penalty for breaking the law, then tax the person thrown in jail in excess of the penalty the law mandates?

This ain't liberals or communists advocating this abomination folks. It's capitalist companies like Haliburton that believe they are above the law. It's the end result of privatizing the business we entrusted to the government, being farmed out for profit.

This ploy has Dick Cheney's prints all over it.
-------------

fascism

Born in debt.

Imprisoned in debt.

Dead in debt.

Better than that.

Transfer of debt to heirs

Continuation of cycle.

Somoco,

Wise up, and realize that this is our nation turning into a fascist regime. Direct taxes are anti-constitutional and the effort being made is to further devolve our country into becoming a tyranny by continuing to defy the constitution and law to sponsor such dictation against that law and principle. The excuse is 'expense' but it will become 'revenue' as the Congressional/Industrial Complex finds power and profit in having 'new' criminals to do-the-work.

And just how are they going to motivate payment? Threaten them with jail? lol.

What tard thought this up...

How brilliant can these leftist, Democrat and, or neo-nazi be!?!

Brilliant enuff to read that the bill in question originated on the right not on the left as yer rant would imply.

In New York, Republican Assemblyman James Tedisco introduced a bill that would charge wealthy criminals $90 a day for room and board at state prisons.

The fucktards who thought this one up are petty, fascist shitstains to deserve nothing but hoots of derision and the odd rotten tomato thrown at their ugly, empty heads at least until they realise and admit publically how absolutely, appallingly WRONG this entire idea is.

"The law is fair to both rich and poor for it makes it illegal for either to sleep under a bridge."

Be Well.

Explain why I should pay for your FUCKUP, or you should pay for mine? I mean, after all I/you fucked up!

Go one step further, pull a mini Arpieo. Do not fine for minor offenses OR victim-less crimes! Instead have the culprit report to jail Friday, at 7PM, following the work day and evening meal.

Outfit him/her in Pink, chartruse, and/or orange jumpsuits. Put them on the streets, sweeping, cutting/trimming grass, clearing sidewalks, empty lots, or mowing lawns at abandoned homes for a full workday Saturday and Sunday (time out for lunch AND breaks, of course).

Charge them a flat rate for food and quarters (the cell room), say $2.50 per meal, $3.00 for personal items, $5 for the nights accomodations. That would amount to approximately 5 meals and 1 nights lodging, plus the $3 for personal items, or about $20.50 for the weekend (plus a worlds worth of humiliation)!

Release them Sunday evening at 6PM, before supper, to return to their jobs Monday for work.

Allow business to request support through this program, as long as no full time employee loses their job.

I would bet there would be less rescidivism (sp).

When time is sucessfully served, allow for expungment of record after two years (24 months) by petion thru the local court system!

Sorry, two nights for a total of $25.50

This is hardly anything new, its been going on for years.

"Charging inmates for their own incarceration - also known as "pay-to-stay" fees - is a trend that began about 20 years ago in Alabama, and soared in popularity around the country under the "tough-on-crime" policies of the Reagan and Clinton eras. By 2004 about one-third of the county jails in the United States had policies charging inmates for their own incarceration. During that same time period more than 50% of state correctional systems also had pay-to-stay fees. Some of these fees were collected through the inmate's bank account during incarceration and others through civil litigation aimed at a prisoner's estate or properties once they were released."

Danni supports, "This is hardly anything new, its been going on for years."

No surprise to me that Danni is pro-Arbeit Macht Frei philosophy.

Deth tries misdirection, "Brilliant enuff to read that the bill in question originated on the right not on the left as yer rant would imply."

I didn't make any support of Republicans, and as you leftists always, mistakenly, assume I am one.

However, the main thrust towards this sort of socialism (and nazism was that) is at the hands of Democrats, now.

You merely try and distract from that reality by mounting your Leftist High Horse ...

Do you pay extra or get discounts if you are raped in prison?

TADOWE I hardly support this kind of stuff but I just thought it funny that the article almost makes it sound like a new idea. Notice, in my post, where it originated??? No surprise there.

this sort of socialism (and nazism was that)

Hitler's regime paid lip service to notions of socialism in its early days and then promptly turned into a hard core right wing fascist regime.

Yer team, Taddles.

Be Well.

Danni says, "... I hardly support this kind of stuff ... Notice, in my post, where it originated??? No surprise there."

You are a leftist, muckraking hatemonger, Danni. I expect nothing less from you than that you will blame *everything* on the rightwing, conservatives, Republicans, libertarians, or any other 'idiot' who won't support Democrats, or some other leftist creep and, or petty tyrant.

How's that?

Deth defends socialism, "Hitler's regime paid lip service to notions of socialism in its early days and then promptly turned into a hard core right wing fascist regime."

You attempt to conflate 'rightwing' with 'fascism', except that the only practioners were tyrannical socialist regimes; e.g., Italy, Germany and Japan; all of which dictatorships controlled and directed the means of production with their nation's previously free 'businesses'.

Socialist are the ones who now defend socialism by denying that it was the economic system of those fascist nations, like trying to say that Farben was free NOT to produced military armament for the Fuhrer's wars ...

... base liars, and in this case Canadian prevaricators ...

FO commie wannabe.

Posted by tadowe at 2009-08-07 04:37 PM | Reply Flag- Flunked out of poli sci more than once

""I want my country back!!!"

Tadowe

Transylvania?

Puling Hypocritica

You attempt to conflate 'rightwing' with 'fascism', except that the only practioners were tyrannical socialist regimes; e.g., Italy, Germany and Japan; all of which dictatorships controlled and directed the means of production with their nation's previously free 'businesses'

Fascism as practised by the Nazis, the Italians and the Japanese was an overly close relationship between government and the corporate world that gave them all the power by taking rights away from the people.

The overly close and cosy relationship between global governments and multinational corporate concerns that exists today begins to approximate it.

The Miltary Industrial complex has now expanded to incorporate most of the MSM and has established a revolving door between itself and government that spinds faster and faster every year.

At present they are content to rule through propaganda rather than outright brute force but as more and Americans drop into poverty crime rates will increase and protests will increasingly turn violent and then that fact will be the impetus/rationale to start resorting to older, more drastic and draconian methods.

Something we should both want to avoid.

Unles it's more fun fer you to remain a true Drudge Independent (TM) and continue to bash the left incessently.

Wotever floats yer boat.

Be Well.

Fascism as practised by the Nazis, the Italians and the Japanese was an overly close relationship between government and the corporate world that gave them all the power by taking rights away from the people.

The overly close and cosy relationship between global governments and multinational corporate concerns that exists today begins to approximate it.

Facism is old style, brute force corporate dictatorship. Modern corporate states maintain social control through their ownership of the culture and the media.

I said:

The Founding Fathers hated indentured servitude to the state!

They wrote into the Constitution a GUARANTEE that that form of slavery would not ever be an encouragement to government to create debtor prisons. The 'guarentee' was the process of collecting taxes.

They insisted that NO DIRECT TAXES ON INDIVIDUALS would be made by government, and stated that taxes be excises on goods and services and apportioned to the states based on census!

The tyrants of government tried to establish DIRECT TAXATION by passing the 16th Amendment, but were unsuccessful in making that Amendment a permission to tax directly, because the Supreme Court found that the Amendment did nothing more than re-define taxes on individuals from being INDIRECT to DIRECT.

They still could not tax individuals directly because they still had to apportion by state and census! (Only corporations, other businesses as appropriate, and federal employees were taxed directly.)

All that changed when Democrats were in control during WWII, as they had been when the 16th was shoved down America's throat, and where they pleaded with Americans to VOLUNTARILY ALLOW A DIRECT TAX COLLECTION TO FIGHT THE NAZI.

Presto, chango! The Voluntary Individual Income Tax and Voluntary Withholding became VOLUNTARY!

Loyal and patriotic Americans agreed, because it was promised that such DIRECT TAXATION would end when the war was won.

Of course the petty tyrants of America, Democrats (and the bipartisan tyrants of the Republican party), have continued direct taxation ... and now will jail more and more people to collect revenue ... that is by law, voluntary. Catch-22 sponsored by both Dems and Repubs.

Real tyrants (Communists in my opinion) are in charge and you'd better pay, or get jailed to force your labor ...

Arbeit Macht Frei! Sieg Heil! Victory Welfare! That's the Progressive Way - Pay or Jail!

==--==

Jerry says, "Take your meds Tadly."

Danni puts words in my mouth, "I want my country back!!!"

Sanan says, "Transylvania?"

Corky says, "Puling Hypocritica" and "Flunked out of poli sci more than once"

Dethspud lies, then says, "Yer team, Taddles"

How brilliant can these leftist, Democrat and, or neo-nazi be with me as their subject!?!

Corporations are now, for all practical purposes, the only way anything can get done, made or distributed, or even imagined as a way of anything coming into being (except babies). Look around you. Is there anything, from the food in the fridge to the fridge itself, from the furniture to the very varnish on the floors or the clothes we wear that was not delivered unto us by corporations?

Our dependency on corporations at every level of the needs hierarchy is total. We cannot see beyond the corporate manufactured reality because, to us, it is the only possible reality. We cannot see around it or out of it from the inside. Corporate reality is all permeating. Air tight, too. Each part so perfectly reinforces all of its other parts as to be seamless. Inescapable. In that sense, we are prisoners for life.

The corporate-government-media complex that manufactures our mass consciousness (hereinafter referred to as "the bastards" for clarity purposes) is simultaneously unknowable, yet easy to believe in.

With its millions of moving parts, seen and unseen -- financial, media, manufacturing, technological, material -- no one, not even its most elevated masters, can conceive of the system's entirety, or even in the same way. This great loom of ideation, with its many spindles, flycocks and shuttles, can weave any fantasy one desires and certainly sustain any individual's commodity or identity fetish.

"Posted by tadowe at 2009-08-07 04:37 PM | Reply Flag- Flunked out of poli sci more than once"

Doesn't know any physics either!

Deth replies, "Fascism as practised by the Nazis, the Italians and the Japanese was an overly close relationship between government and the corporate world that gave them all the power by taking rights away from the people."

What a shallow person you prove to be. You attempt a dialectic 'lie', and not even as skillfully as Pravda. "Close relationship" presupposes that IG Farben, et al, had the freedom to refuse the Fuhrer. That the Emperor, Shogunate, Keiretsu relationship had been the socialist order for ages, doesn't, can't distract from the fact that the Japanese tyranny contolled and dictated the means of production ... the definition of a socialist economy, not 'rightwing capitalism'.

Hitler's Germany and Mussolini's Italy were the same sort of dictatorial socialism. The pretense by socialists, now, is that they supposedly had a free capitalistic economy; while pretending that 'rightwing' means the same as a 'fascistic socialism'. Inveterate liars in support of their hopes for a communist utopia.

"Close relationship" presupposes that IG Farben, et al, had the freedom to refuse the Fuhrer.

Yer repeated example presupposes that IG Farben, Bayer et al had the desire to refuse the Fuhrer.

Why would they?

Prior to Hitler coming on the scene Germany was going broke due to an unsupportable repayment schedule agreed upon in the Treaty of Versaille after WWI.

After Hitler's emergence as Germany's leader the country's industrial base was going great guns, literally.

It was corporate co-operation through collusion not coersion.

You see Farben as an innocent concern who was controlled by the Nazi's despite their desire to not go there but Spud sees them more as co-conspirators and eager war mongers.

Do you also think the Swiss were purely neutral too?

Just trying to find out where the gaps in yer understanding of history are.

Be Well.

Deth spins some more, "Why would they?"

Please! If they did, and how could they not have agreed, then they were in agreement that the state control the means of production, and dictate what was to be produced by them. Still a socialistic economy, however much you twist and turn to avoid that.

"After Hitler's emergence as Germany's leader the country's industrial base was going great guns, literally."

The state controlled the banks, the money, the entire socialist economy and made it 'work' on chants of "Victory For Welfare". It allowed the socialist economy to burdgeon on the state issuing fiat script/gelt to 'pay' for war, and you know it.

Now, in the USA, the effort will be to gain dictatorial power for the state by nationalizing banks, insurance, medical/healthcare, housing and the auto industry ... for their desire to evolve into a communist utopia.

Communism promises pure democracy, and instead establishes worker's slavery ...

In this thread, the philosophy being espoused is the same socialist one advanced by the Nazi socialist regime: Arbeit Macht Freiat the gate to 'encourage' US prisoners ...

Prior to Hitler coming on the scene Germany was going broke due to an unsupportable repayment schedule agreed upon in the Treaty of Versaille after WWI.

After Hitler's emergence as Germany's leader the country's industrial base was going great guns, literally.

It was corporate co-operation through collusion not coersion.

You see Farben as an innocent concern who was controlled by the Nazi's despite their desire to not go there but Spud sees them more as co-conspirators and eager war mongers.

Do you also think the Swiss were purely neutral too?

Just trying to find out where the gaps in yer understanding of history are.

Be Well.

-----------

Yes, the treaty of Versailles was a Carthaginian peace.

Corporate america funded the rise of the nazi reich. There is no disputing this.

Corporate america funded the rise of the nazi reich. There is no disputing this.

Posted by Shawn

more like the Federal Reserve did...

In Cali, the prisoners could write IOU's.....

capitalism
socialism
fascism
communism
nazism

all "isms" pretty much suck.

a Republic would be nice!

Shawn,

Progressive America provided both the ideology for the Nazis through eugenics and armies of organized street thugs...they also provided the reason for being by intervening unnecessarily, ensuring an indecisive outcome in WW1...leading diretly to Adolph's popularity, which was greatly enhanced by the progressive american press.....

The Founding Fathers hated indentured servitude to the state!

But so long as its capitalists exploiting dark people harvested from the jungles, no worries, right? See, I can appeal to that same authority.

Its time for the mythology surrounding the "founding fathers" to just die already. They were just as fallible and corruptible as any of us.

This also means that exulting the constitution in its purest form as the only way to govern is irrational too. Looking at our debts, the overall disfunction of American society, and the inability of said society to have more than a two-sided debate on any one topic proves that it failed on so many levels.

"Hitler's Germany and Mussolini's Italy were the same sort of dictatorial socialism. The pretense by socialists, now, is that they supposedly had a free capitalistic economy; while pretending that 'rightwing' means the same as a 'fascistic socialism'. Inveterate liars in support of their hopes for a communist utopia."

True of hitler, but not of Mussolini and Franco. The term "fascist" became a general smear that diluted its meaning.
The only "fascists" were Mussolini's party and no manifesto was ever written. It came from the Roman fascisti, a bundle of sticks used to symbolize an unbreakable union made of breakable individuals.
In other words, Mussolini was closer to Chicago machine politics than to Hitler. The party unity was above all other values.
I am unaware of Mussolini ever supporting socialism. His party formed as a reaction to leftism. Hitler favored "socialism" but rejected the theorized international aspect of it. Hence "national socialism."
Franco was a mere military dictator after a civil war, much like Cromwell in England. No doctrine there.
So I wonder where anyone got this 'government unity with corporations' as the definition of fascism? Is government unity with ACORN as bad and, if not, why? Is government unity with GM socialism or fascism? I believe it is both, to tell the truth.

Progressive America provided both the ideology for the Nazis through eugenics and armies of organized street thugs...they also provided the reason for being by intervening unnecessarily, ensuring an indecisive outcome in WW1...leading diretly to Adolph's popularity, which was greatly enhanced by the progressive american press.....

----------

Yes, i'm aware that the corporations have hijacked the word 'progressive' to mean national socialism.

Will the white-collar prisoners such as Politicians have to pay more to stay at the Federal 'Prisons' they go to? You know, the country clubs that have tennis courts for inmates. Those should cost much more to stay at.

V[The fucktards who thought this one up are petty, fascist shitstains

A Quality Post. You win.

Diablo says, "True of hitler ..."

And, of course Japan.

"... but not of Mussolini ... the term "fascist" became a general smear that diluted its meaning."

Indeed, and since the socialists attempted to deflect that Hitler's Germany was actually a socialist regime by conflating 'fascist' with 'rightwing'.

"The only "fascists" were Mussolini's party ... from the Roman fascisti, a bundle of sticks used to symbolize an unbreakable union made of breakable individuals."

The term was applied to the Axis, and which in the case of Germany and Italy, was under the direction of Adolph Hitler, as Fuhrer of the Axis. Of course, Japan was never under that 'direction', despite allowing themselves to be part of that Axis.

"I am unaware of Mussolini ever supporting socialism."

Italian society was occupied with 'advisors' and SS supervisors controlled the neo-Roman economy, and directed Mussolini and the Italian Army. Mussolini's party may have rejected socialism in its formation, but it was forced into it by 'National' socialism's control.

"So I wonder where anyone got this 'government unity with corporations' as the definition of fascism?"

It has been the standard socialist propaganda to deflect that Nazi Germany and the Axis nations were actually socialisms. Instead, the propaganda claims that the Nazi, et al, was a form of super-patriotic capitalism: and that the 'rightwing' equaled 'fascism'.

Notice how the Democrat, neo-socialists eat that stuff up?

"Is government unity with ACORN as bad and, if not, why? Is government unity with GM socialism or fascism? I believe it is both, to tell the truth."

Control of the means of production is socialism, and as you pointed out, fascism is just a word to say something like Franklin mentioned: "We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately."

So, of course fascism can be congruent with socialism, as it was with the Axis, and as it is in the case of Obama's takeover of the major part of the US auto industry ... along with the 'reed' ACORN represents in the bundle.

Interesting how Hitler always makes his evil way into these things. :) Hitler built some big death-camp prisons. And America builds the shit out of prisons today, although not nearly as atrocious as the Nazis.

Given that 40 percent of America's nearly 3 million prisoners are non-violent offenders (drug offenders, DUIs, check kiters, etc.), I think it's par for the course that our dimwitted politicians and special interests would want to kick 'em even more when they're down.

The Great American Law Enforcement/Prison Industrial Complex relies on its cattle for good jobs, benefits, perks, kickbacks, cash grabs and power trips. We're talking minions of multi-jurisdictional cops, lawyers, prosecutors, administrators, judges, doctors, counselors and countless other parasites.

Problem is, the bloated books are cooked, the stakeholders are greedy, and the costs are hiked and hiked again. So let's criminalize more stuff, campaign on crime, keep building the human warehouses, and start charging the slaves for their enslavement.

America: Mom, Applie Pie and Prison.

So, of course fascism can be congruent with socialism, as it was with the Axis, and as it is in the case of Obama's takeover of the major part of the US auto industry ... along with the 'reed' ACORN represents in the bundle.

#56 | Posted by tadowe at 2009-08-08 12:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

Sorry, but even after you looked up all of those 'really big words', they still don't help you sound as if you know what you're talking about.

I think a better thing would be to directly charge state residents for prison fees. send everyone in the state a monthly bill. you will very quickly see people reevaluate the wisdom of locking people up for drug use and petty theft. The "three strikes" law will get itself struck off the records as well.

Petty theft

I don't have much,it isn't petty to me,

"I don't have much,it isn't petty to me,

#60 | Posted by bruceaz"

Great then let's execute someone for stealing your shitty 30yo B&W TV.

states are spending millions incarcerating people who stole $.50 candy bars. Is there really that much damage done to society by the theft?

Weird:

--Comment #56 was made by ME: PMMFCustodian.This comment was NOT made by "Tadowe."

--Comment #57 was NOT made by me, but apparently by Tadpole Brain.

How the crap did that happen?

Oh, shit. Was reading it wrong and see now that the credits are on the end of the post. Sorry!

PMMF says, Comment #56 was made by ME: PMMFCustodian.This comment was NOT made by "Tadowe."

You are seriously confused.