The ingredients, known as adjuvants, may be added for the first time to flu shots in the U.S.

Huh? Most vaccines contain adjuvants.

don't think MMS Protocol has adjuvants...but don't want to be called anti-semite

#1 zombie
Huh? Most vaccines contain adjuvants.

you're almost correct. An exception will be made for the 12000 guinea pig children that will spearhead the declaration of its safety.

adjuvant = auto-immune response

#2 L_R
Adjuvants may not be necessary if enough shots can be produced without them, according to Health and Human Services. That possibility got a boost today from authorities at the CDC, who said 40 million shots of unadjuvanted vaccine may be available in September, earlier than previously reported, with 80 million more doses ready in October.

Separate from a pre-adjuvant version as being ready first, in testing mode of 12,000 there is not a need to add adjuvants to "spread out" the antigen dose that will be at issue in producing 4 billion doses. Admittedly, the purpose is to test negative reaction. Without the squalene, the adjuvant effect is removed and it will be declared a positive test. Then, when there is an imminent emergency, the public is misled about what was already tested in their propaganda efforts.

Of course, additionally, there is no true test of the effectiveness of the vaccine itself or if the swine flu has already mutated making the vaccine impotent, which appears to be the case recently in Brazil.

adjuvant = auto-immune response

I suppose you've come across some credible that shows this... Like the rest of the anti-vax crowd, it's not your background in immunology that leads you to make these claims. It's your index finger and a few crappy websites run by people who have never dreamed of doing any research to support their screwball agenda.

Adjuvants potentiate the immune response triggered by antigens in the vaccine. It takes an elaborate, days-long process for you to begin producing antibodies and "killer" T cells. Same for developing immunological memory. That requires whatever the bug may be to replicate long enough to keep your immune system stimulated. Most infections are cleared by your innate immune system before an adaptive response has time to get into full swing, and if you inject an inactivated virus, it won't replicate. Since the goal of a vaccine is to trigger an adaptive response, you need an adjuvant.

Of course, additionally, there is no true test of the effectiveness of the vaccine itself or if the swine flu has already mutated making the vaccine impotent, which appears to be the case recently in Brazil.

Shit damn, you really are a fucking idiot...

No way to test the effectiveness of the vaccine?! How about in any of the animal models out there? See if antibodies inhibit viral replication in vitro. See what happens when you vaccinate high-risk human populations that would likely suffer a high rate of infection. There are all sorts of ways to test it!

This swine flu strain is new. The seasonal vaccine won't protect against it since the main antigens of this new virus are so unique. Because we're naive to the bug, it's not experiencing selection from large populations of previously exposed hosts like seasonal strains... If you look at the sequences in GenBank, you'll see that the vast majority of isolates have identical or near-identical HA and NA proteins. This new strain will certainly drift, but it won't start until there are enough resistant hosts to start creating selection. If it ends up co-circulating with seasonal strains, they'll just have to reformulate seasonal vaccines to include swine flu. It's more difficult than just throwing in a new ingredient, but that's the gist.

#5 - zombie

I'll be thrilled to "exercise my index finger" to back the thousands of honest, informed doctors who are not backed by criminal elements like CDC who with unlimited funds, propaganda make great efforts to hide the truths.

#6 - zombie
while i believe your statements are clearly false even to you, I don't display a lack of intelligence by abusive language instead of addressing the statements like you make a habit of doing.

You like throwing around official sounding terms (HA, NA proteins, GenBank) to make yourself sound informed. Where were these "informed" opinions when I was posting the dire warnings? Instead you used intelligent responses calling the doctor a 'crazy bitch'.

While attempting to sound smart, you attempted (not well) to address one of the many points being made.

In the rush to production of this vaccine, the testing is on a group of 12,000 children. This would not produce a conclusive test for effectiveness even though they will propagandize that it does.

Brazil's new strain or the fact that any vaccine being rushed through would be impotent against any such mutations. You also didn't address the difference between the current proposed non-adjuvant version being produced currently and tested against adverse reactions when there obviously wouldn't be any. Then the propaganda would tell us it's safe without mentioning the addition of the squalene mercury!

Hee-hee! This same swine-fraud happened under Gerald Ford. More people died from the vaccine than from the flu. But political panic addicts still fall for this stuff, global warming and the still-awaited AIDS plague on heterosexuals.

P.S. Just as under Ford, the drug companies are receiving billions to "develope" a vaccine to "combat" the "threat."
Gee, no streets filled with corpses, companies getting dollars by the Niagara waterfall rate and.....where is the plague?

You like throwing around official sounding terms (HA, NA proteins, GenBank) to make yourself sound informed.

I "throw around" those terms because you were talking about the evolution of the influenza virus in response to our adaptive immune response... specifically you said that the virus has been evolving rapidly and a vaccine made now would not offer protection later. If you want to talk about this virus, especially in the context of vaccines, evolution, and immunity, you're going to get into that sort of stuff sooner or later. I suggest you learn about it if you want to formulate an informed opinion on the issue.

For the record, I've mentioned that more than once here, and I've linked to the part of GenBank that has the swine flu sequences. I've linked to a tool you can use to compare them. I've linked to studies that describe the evolutionary history of this strain and others. All of these things are ignored by conspiracists, probably because you people think the Illuminati control all of the research institutions. So if the Illuminati might exist and might control science, you should cast sanity to the wind and chase after the most unscientific and bizarre nonsense you can find, just to be safe.

Where were these "informed" opinions when I was posting the dire warnings? Instead you used intelligent responses calling the doctor a 'crazy bitch'.

Dire warnings? How about inane ravings of a lunatic. If you want to make a "dire warning" you should have some physical evidence behind you. Which you didn't.

You linked to a person who claimed on the internet to have an M.D. Even if she had a degree, she had no clue. Earlier, you were not talking about the evolution of the influenza virus. You were defending some crazy bitch who belongs in a circus sideshow, not in medicine. I get tired of replying to conspiratorial morons with facts that they will just ignore. So forgive me if I call a spade a spade, an idiot an idiot, and a crazy bitch a crazy bitch every now and then.

Hee-hee! This same swine-fraud happened under Gerald Ford. More people died from the vaccine than from the flu.

The same only in name. The "swine flu" under Ford never spread globally and began outcompeting seasonal strains in the same way that today's "swine flu" is.

But political panic addicts still fall for this stuff, global warming and the still-awaited AIDS plague on heterosexuals.

Global warming exists, as does an HIV pandemic in heterosexual populations and a pandemic of a new influenza virus. You don't wish to acknowledge them because you don't understand these issues well to begin with, and learning about them would challenge your dearly-held political and religious ideologies. You're the lowest kind of fucking moron - the kind of shitbag that chooses to remain ignorant and then wallow in their ignorance. Like a pig revels in its own filth, your kind views a refusal to acknowledge reality as a virtue. Humanity would be far better off without those types...

Good one, Zomb.

Keep up the good work.

I enjoy your virology posts and always learn something new.

yeah,right. so says silver the propagandist!

Zombie the "rational scientist" wrote:

"Global warming exists, as does an HIV pandemic in heterosexual populations and a pandemic of a new influenza virus. You don't wish to acknowledge them because you don't understand these issues well to begin with, and learning about them would challenge your dearly-held political and religious ideologies. You're the lowest kind of fucking moron - the kind of shitbag that chooses to remain ignorant and then wallow in their ignorance. Like a pig revels in its own filth, your kind views a refusal to acknowledge reality as a virtue. Humanity would be far better off without those types..."

Uh-huh. Real scientific there, pardner. And maybe the reason you say I don't "understand" these issues is that the dire predictions did not come true? Trying to save your government job, perhaps?
My religion has nothing to do with this matter. Why did you bring it up, Zombie? Trying to add even more irrational emotion into your "scientific" approach?