Is healthcare the next smokescreen to what is really going on?

The war on terra really just used to take away our freedom and set up a command post in the desert?

How many people realize that the PATRIOT ACT was penned BEFORE 9/11 and while we were all in shock they slipped it in... the anal cavity, that is.

How many people realize that the PATRIOT ACT was penned BEFORE 9/11 and while we were all in shock they slipped it in... the anal cavity, that is.
#1 | Posted by AuntieSocial

Well... Duh.

On topic, Peter Singer is a bit of a jerk who argues that the lives of any life form should be weighted equally with humans.

Oregon figured this out twenty years ago. BushI destroyed their program.

30% saving would be available immediately simply by eliminating the largest obstacle to quality care, your insurance company. Any wonder they are pouring money into Washington? They want to keep their cut. Will bribery once again define our policy?

The next big savings should be specialist wages. Surgeons would do fine making $1 million a year instead of $2 or $3 million.

"Will bribery once again define our policy?"

It would have to have a period of abatement first.

I've yet to hear a poor person advocate healthcare rationing. Plenty of millionaires like President Obama are all for it. I wonder if its because they can pay cash when their ration runs out?

The wealthy can afford rationing... can you?

Greendad,

You don't hear the poor talking about it because our health care is already rationed.

You think I would have chosen to go without steroids my last relapse if I had the money? Yeah cause numb legs and feet are so fun. No I had to ration my health care and it sucked but at 1600 a pop I had to make that choice.

How about when I had to pick a different med because the one the Dr. wanted to use was not on the schedule so it would have been 120 a month instead I'm on option 2 which is 18 a month. Not the one my dr. wanted and it is causing me to have high chloestorol but what the heck it's the one the insurance company wants. Would that be more rationing?

Rationing happens to poor and middle class people all the time under the system we have thats why no one is complaining about it.

Oregon figured this out twenty years ago. BushI destroyed their program.

30% saving would be available immediately simply by eliminating the largest obstacle to quality care, your insurance company. Any wonder they are pouring money into Washington? They want to keep their cut. Will bribery once again define our policy?

The next big savings should be specialist wages. Surgeons would do fine making $1 million a year instead of $2 or $3 million.

#3 | Posted by nutcase at 2009-07-20 08:53 AM | Reply | Flag: Utter Nonsense

Wow, you get to decide what someone's efforts are worth now? Who appointed you 'Deciderer in Chief?' for wages? What hubris.

Besides, if you cut their salaries, who is going to pay the taxes to pay for health care for your ass?

The next big savings should be specialist wages. Surgeons would do fine making $1 million a year instead of $2 or $3 million.

#3 | Posted by nutcase

So, someone that saves your stinkin life should take big pay cuts so you can pay some pro athlete more? $3 million a year is chump change for a pro athlete. How bout thoes dick heads on wall street that are plunduring the US treasury? Pay cut? Maybe you are only worth $10 per hour to the wage decider. What do you think? $20k per year enough for you?

what a crock

people here actually approving of the denial of certain health care proceeduring because it would save money

WHAT happened to the progressive liberals here who have always spoken out for the little guy
for the oppressed
the people who are always lecturing to the rest of us about how those of us with means HAVE to give to those without
to have people give according to their means..(beginning to sound like a familar world doctrine, that HAS NEVER WORKED and never will??)

so where are all those people of such concern for thier fellow man??

NOW THEY are in favor of denying health care to people because ITS TOO EXPENSIVE>

my my....and tsk tsk tsk

AH I GET IT NOW

we have to deny some people MEDICINE FOR BREAST CANCER AS they do in great britain so that we can have money..TAXPAYER MONEY TO PAY FOR MURDER OF innocent life in the womb because THAT is good politically for the left..

well I see now

any doubt as to abortion being paid by me and you

on fox news sunday...
Peter orszag the obama budget director I believe is his title was QUOTED on the subject

"IM NOT PREPARED TO RULE THAT OUT."

and as we can see even here in our little community, that is one area that obama will lose even people who may be more in line with him than me....( and YOU KNOW WHO you are...) lol

(And YOY KNOW WHO you are..)

Pfft

Ok, so the taxpayer money should NEVER pay for abortion?

Well, what about all of the babies that would be born every year as a result that are handicapped either because of birth defets or because the mother was smoking meth? What do the taxpayers end up paying for them? Weeks, maybe months in the NICU, expensive medications for the rest of thier lives, therapists, special ed teachers, group homes, foster care, and maybe even prison guards. Or, I suppose the taxpayers could luck out and just have to pay for the ER visit and the state burial of the poor girl after she goes to some butcher to have it done and bleeds to death or dies from an infection.

I had a cancer removed a couple years back.

Due to a shortage on money, I refused a portion of the follow on care (I basicly gambled that they got it all).

I do NOT have a right to anything I can't pay for myself, not even if I have a real and Valid "need".

(on a bright note, my finances improved this year, and I'm busy and happily paying back the folks that helped me when I was down (Not a dime of public money)).

In Simple Terms:

The price of Healthcare is up for several reasons, among them:

#1 A VAST number a effective life saving / life improving treatments that WORK, but also cost a lot of money that simply did not exist a few decades ago, so no money was spent on them until they existed.

#2 Lawyers

#3 Due to the increasing paperwork load in medicine, Doctors need more "medical staff" than ever before. A significant part of medical expence is paying a well educated and trained clerk to fill out / file paperwork (its not just the stuff you fill out).

#4 The vast array of new treatments need more doctors to apply them, so there is a moderate shortage on this.

misse....those things you mention sound real good but can be taken care of without FORCING me to sanction the takin of INNOCENT life in the womb in many cases simply because the mother and/or father just dont want to be bothered...........

the view you expressed was noble but far off the beaten path and also result of behaviors of people who maybe should be held responsible..
NOT Me and others who have our own shit to take care of.......

bottom line...THIS IS on the table on barrys health care reform....and I DONT Like it...not one bit...

usa....nice points...so how can we see that, for instance, something that happens to ALL OF us

the famous MIRACLE that we pay 4 bucks for a hundred but the same thing in a hospital costs TEN BUCKS FOR ONE>.....

THIS is one of several parts of this issue I bet we could find some real common ground..IF republicans were even allowed inthe room during discussions like this

AND you point about lawyers..

from your screen to their ears

WHY is it that NEVER...not ONCE>..not a single...DEMOCRAT on tv have I heard make one single mention about reform in this area....

Ration health care? AHHHHHH!! So, the next time I sneeze I'm not entitled to an MRI? Damned libs! What's next? Denying good people like me the next generation of Viagra so some brown kid can get immunized? Lets keep our priorities straight, America. If Michael Jackson has taught us anything, it is that you can always trust money to do the right thing.

WHY is it that NEVER...not ONCE>..not a single...DEMOCRAT on tv have I heard make one single mention about reform in this area....

#16 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2009-07-20 12:01 PM

Maybe you should try reading every so often? Or turn the freaking channel already??? Apparently, Hannity just isn't giving you a whole lot to work with.

misse....those things you mention sound real good but can be taken care of without FORCING me to sanction the takin of INNOCENT life in the womb in many cases simply because the mother and/or father just dont want to be bothered...........

the view you expressed was noble but far off the beaten path and also result of behaviors of people who maybe should be held responsible..
NOT Me and others who have our own shit to take care of.......

bottom line...THIS IS on the table on barrys health care reform....and I DONT Like it...not one bit...

Since you HAVe your OWN shit to take care OF...and don't want your tax MONEY to pay for the taking of INNOCENT life IN the womb, I'm sure that you are prepared to adopt all of thiose crack babies, right? If every person who is against the TAKING of innocent life in the WOMB was required to adopt one of the babies "saved" as a result, they may change thier tune. Especially when the bills came in...As for the babies of parents who "just can't be bothered", those are usually affluent people who have really good insurance that already covers thier indescretions. Pretty sure the tax payers are not picking up the tab for sociallite abortions this year, but hell, with all the welfare we've got going to big corporations, i suppose that Daddy's credit card bills are ultimatlely be ing paid by the taxpayers, so maybe we are paying for Muffy's abortion. Gee, USA, guess you got a point.

there are plenty of people who are begging to adopt and if you werent ...apparently from your tone here.......a dupe for anything obama...you might know that

WATCH THIS>..this is how adults debate

HEY KEvin..thanks for the info..I will now have to amend my comments on that subject to NO ONE but the insurance industry or whatever publication that was..

so without reading the whole thing...are they in favor ..I would think so since they are the carriers but at the same time they also make a ton of money on payments..
hhhhhmmmmmm interesting....

QUOTES ON THE SUBJECT from scoures.

"the legislature significantly expandes the federal responsibility for health care costs"

D elemndorf...CBo..A DEMOCRAT APPOINTEE

"the house bill does nothing to solve the problem of the escalating costs of health care"

mike levette..former secrt of HHS

"there is nothing in the legislation that will reduce private insurance premiums and not nearly enough to contain the rising costs of health care"

ken thorpe.,.....CLINTON AIDE...

"the fee adjustments included in this bill will not fix the problem of insurance costs"

Glenn hackburth...medicare advisory board commissioner

"harry ried is pressing the senate to turn down a cap on value plans....which would feed medical inflation and make it harder to finance expanded coverage"

david broder.......

DONT TAKE MY WORD FOr it..

all quotes above from houston chronicle...7/19/09

I've yet to hear a poor person advocate healthcare rationing. Plenty of millionaires like President Obama are all for it. I wonder if its because they can pay cash when their ration runs out?

The wealthy can afford rationing... can you?

#5 | Posted by GreenDad at 2009-07-20 09:29 AM

I just conducted an informal poll of 100 uninsured Americans, and it turns out that, just like mentioned explicitly in the article you obviously didn't care to read, they think their health care is ALREADY being rationed. Many have foregone check-ups, and all sorts of minor interventions that would have saved them from vastly more expensive problems later on.

Then I conducted another poll of employers who provide insurance to employees. It seems they think health care is being rationed by cost. All those people we polled before couldn't pay for their emergency care, so this second group gets to pick up the tab and watch their own benefits shrink.

Then I conducted a poll of smug republican assholes who are firmly against health care reform. Seems these people believe that if we could just make an erection last 1 more hour for the oldest and richest Americans, then its all downhill from there.

"HEY KEvin..thanks for the info..I will now have to amend my comments on that subject to NO ONE but the insurance industry or whatever publication that was.."

Yeah, because heaven forbid you use the google and discover how incredibly easy it is to prove how full of shit your comments are. I mean, I think I had to sort through one whole result before getting to the article linked. Tough stuff. Easier to just watch TV all day and drool, isn't it?

Miss,

I already have adoped 1 half hispanic heroin baby does that mean I can be anti-abortion in your book?

Frankly I don't care who is getting an abortion for whatever reason it's wrong. Yes there are exceptions to every rule (life of mother, rape, incest) but it's still taking a life.

The question is I thought the nanny state was going to take care of us from cradle to grave, what is the problem with having kids just think how much the young orphans minds could be molded.

Those people generally want to adopt pretty, healthy babies, and even go as far as China to do it. There does not seem to be a big crowd lining up to adopt good old bred in America crack babies. In any event, your posts are incoherent and have really bizarre capitalization issues, but IF that's >HOW adults deBate, guess I'll have to work on THAT. (just a note, sorry I attributed this trash to USA earlier, sometimes I get confused about who posted what with all of the quotes. Think it's my browser and I need to try some setting changes to fix it)

***"As for the babies of parents who "just can't be bothered", those are usually affluent people who have really good insurance that already covers thier indescretions."***

Really?!? I sure would like to see some evidence that backs up that assertion. You may be right, but I doubt it. As for some of your other comments, you should read them before you post. You make some valid points, but you sound like a group that ran around over in Europe not too long ago. Ending an unborn childs life because you deem them unworthy to live just sounds bad from the get go.

I'm not a fan of this current plan, because I don't believe health care is a right. However, compared with the current state of affairs, I'll admit that most people would probably be better off. The cost problem is the real long-term issue here. Lower costs and everyone wins, regardless of structure.

This whole scare tactic about "rationing" is just aimed at stupid people. Cost, cost cost cost cost.

TaoWarrior, i suppose you may see it that way, and I applaud you for adopting a child, and I'm sure you have nearly sprained your elbow patting yourself on the back for it too. I, however, and i'm sure lots of other people as well even though I don't speak for them, do not see it as "taking" a life, but rather as "preventing" one. Many of the kids I'm talking about end up being aborted even if it's not done in the womb. Just seems worse, sadder, and infinitly more cruel to be beaten to death or starved to death or raped to death by a parent/s who didn't want them and couldn't take care of them, than for their lives to have never started in the first place. Call me crazy...

Ya, there are lots of animals to liberate and save with those resources wasted on humans.

**Really?!? I sure would like to see some evidence that backs up that assertion. You may be right, but I doubt it. As for some of your other comments, you should read them before you post. You make some valid points, but you sound like a group that ran around over in Europe not too long ago. Ending an unborn childs life because you deem them unworthy to live just sounds bad from the get go.**

I did read them, I um, previewed them before i posted them. and I'd like to see some evidence that backs up yours too, but I'm not going to get it am i sweetie? I think not. There are no legitamate statistics out there for this subject because all of the people collecting the data have their own agenda to cram down someone's throat.

Just for the record, as some people seem to see it fit to twist things to a whole new level of crazy, I'm not advocating eugenics. I'm just saying that if Health care is already being rationed and is going to be rationed further int he future, which face it, is going to happen no matter how much we debate it here, it seems pretty stupid to deny a crack whore an abortion and then pay for the healthcare of the resulting handicapped child. Especially since we will be denying medical to functioning members of society. Rationing is/does/will happen/ing. accept it. The best we can do is try to make sure it is done logically, since humanely is completely out of the damn question apparently.

#30. We are so disfunctional when it comes to this shit. We don't even profile at our airports, and wind up making grannies take off their shoes and underwear. Prisoners get on organ donation lists.

Our society is now going to be called on to make logical humane decisions on health care rationing? Fuck, that'll be one pathetic joke.

first you say

If every person who is against the TAKING of innocent life in the WOMB was required to adopt one of the babies "saved" as a result, they may change thier tune

So I point out that I have and you accuse me of spraining my elbow patting myself on the back. Nope I don't. I don't mention it except when someone makes the self righteous assertation that if you are anti abortion you should have to adopt.

I, however, ... do not see it as "taking" a life, but rather as "preventing" one.

Of course you wouldn't, the way I say it makes you sound like a heartless asshole, your way sounds much cleaner. That is the point of most PC speach to obscure an ugly truth with pretty words.

I'm so sorry I hurt people's tender feelings with my "pretty words."

There is absolutely nothing anyone could say that would make any part of a bad situation prettier. People who have never seen the reality of life can preach all they want about how I am a heartless asshole. I'm advocating FOR the children and you call ME self righteous? So you saved one kid, bully for you. now let's get started saving the rest of them. hope you've got room in your trailer.

We must ration health care beacause...
children all over the world need to study maps..
and maps need to be studied so that we may understand how to read maps..
and..
The people in Africa and India who study English then will know how to study, which we should is what I think..
and that is what I think would be good.

"Thank you Miss California."

I'm sorry you think you hurt my feelings. I am a bit suprised to find you think I have them. Most liberals on here think anyone on the right is an uncaring robot.

Your trying to save the children by killing them. Umm not sure how to tell you this but it's probably the wrong way to go.

Yes I called you self righteous. Your braging on how your for the children then saying your for the children by killing them are you kidding me with that? I do like how you moved the bar though oh if your anti-abortion you should adopt a kid now it's you should adopt them all.

No your right abortion is never a pretty situation for any reason. However changing the name and saying how it is for the children is just bullshit to salve the feelings of those who belive that it is justified.

Oh and nice trailer comeback that always shows how you are winning an argument, next you can tell me about my mom's basement.

Facts are, the bail out did not split up the banks into competitive units but formed even larger monstrosities with even more control and theft power.

The subprime scandal was all about people who knew a lotlike mortgage lenders and Wall Street derivatives tradersexploiting people who had less information, like global investors who bought up subprime- mortgage-backed securities.

Globalization definition:
Opening up opportunities to find new people in the third and second world to exploit their ignorance. And scamming them."

So: you can BET that this is nothing more than a FORCED LAW that forces us to buy ALREADY EXISTING MEGALOMANIACAL INSURANCE COMPANY FRANKENSTEINS way overpriced insurance scams and forcing everyone to buy into them especially for those who don't have insurance alrady.

It will just make the big hogs, bigger, and the taxpayers poorer and porrer until no more than work slaves.

Doo dah.

It will just make the big hogs, bigger, and the taxpayers poorer and porrer until no more than work slaves.

Wait, we aren't already?

**Your trying to save the children by killing them. Umm not sure how to tell you this but it's probably the wrong way to go.**

You would rather save your tender sensibilities and believe that being born is better for EVERY child than admit the fact that a very good percentage of children who are aborted may have been in horrible pain because of birth defects or other diseases or been born to parents who neither wanted or could afford to take care of them? Do you read the news? There are hundreds of sites dedicated to memorials for children who have been brutally abused and murdered by thier parents. There are children right in here in america who go to bed hungry every night. Who sleep in cars, under bridges, in doorways. Who are prostituted by drug addicted parents. Who die of neglect. Tell me, was it really better for them to be born and suffer like that?

And what happens to the ones who are strong enough to survive? They become the next generation. Well, "do unto others" seems like a pretty fucked up mantra if you stand in thier shoes.

My children were loved and wanted. They are lucky that way. I work hard and sacrifice anything I have to to take care of them. You probably feel the same way about your kids. But in the real world, not every child has such good fortune. Some children would have been much better off if they had never been born. This is the UGLY fact that prolifers would like to forget.

That is why I think if you want to remove choice and create even more of these children, that YOU should take responsibility for them. I have seen abused and neglected children. I read everyday about another one dying a horrible death. In this regard, I don't just support abortion, I support sterilization. Some people should never have children.

There are children right in here in america who go to bed hungry every night. Who sleep in cars, under bridges, in doorways. Who are prostituted by drug addicted parents. Who die of neglect. Tell me, was it really better for them to be born and suffer like that?

I am pro-choice, but that is the completely wrong argument to use. It is not up to me, you, or anyone else to assign a value to another's life.

***"I did read them, I um, previewed them before i posted them. and I'd like to see some evidence that backs up yours too, but I'm not going to get it am i sweetie? I think not. There are no legitamate statistics out there for this subject because all of the people collecting the data have their own agenda to cram down someone's throat."***

Classic! You can't back up what you say, then tell me to prove that you're wrong! Can you say deflection, redirection?!? Weak, very weak...uh, sweetie. Rationing? We are denying healthcare to functioning members of society? I guess it depends on your idea of what "functioning" might be. My family is middle class all the way, mom was a nurse, dad worked in sales before retirement. My pop battles congestive heart failure and in the last five years has gotten two new knees and a pacemaker. No care was denied, and trust me, my parents don't have any kind of Cadillac congressional health plan. Did it cost money, yeah!! But so does a lot of shit, like food (unless you're on food stamps...Oh nevermind). I'm sorry if I'm not feeling the pain of the underprivileged little man, but I was always taught that I wasn't a little man.

If tribal chief is hungry and tribal slave is hungry, and it is up to tribal chief to decided who gets food,
Guess who gets food.

** I'm sorry if I'm not feeling the pain of the underprivileged little man, but I was always taught that I wasn't a little man.**

Of course you were. That explains everything. I'm sure you didn't have to struggle for anything, so you cannot seem to imagine what it's like for someone who did. Oh, I'm sure your parents worked hard. I'm sure you did to. But working hard gets you a hell of a lot farther from the upper middle or top of the heap than in does from the bottom.

Not all poor people are lazy or on welfare. People don't get to choose how they start out in life, and sadly, sometimes people never break free of it no matter how hard they try. Of course, some people are also elitist assholes thier entire lives too. I feel equally sorry for them.

***"didn't say i couldn't back it up, just didn't really feel the need if you couldn't prove me wrong by backing it up yourself."***

What?!? Do you make this up as you go? You said that most of the people who have abortions because they just don't want to be bothered with a baby were affluent with good insurance. All I asked for was some sort of verification of that statement and you couldn't/can't do it. If you want people to respect you in a debate setting, you don't make statements like this, and then ask someone to prove you wrong; it makes you sound ridiculous and angry. And by the way, the link you provided doesn't work

Peter Singer is the ethicist from Hell. This is the man who favors legalizing infanticide at the discretion of the parents until the baby is one year of age. He is a scum whose demise cannot come too soon. Let us pray to God twith the precatory prayer asking that Singer gets his just desserts as early as possible.

Any scarce resource is always rationed. You can do it by Age (if older than X - let them die), by need (if it is more expensive than X - let them die) or by fiancial status (if they can't pay -let them die)

What we have today is close to rationing by financial status - but there is enough people that pay (actually over pay) that results in enough left over resources to treat everyone that needs it. In some cases if they cannot afford to have X surgery there are indigent funds that can help out...but in the end if you have the ability to pay (Insurance or direct payment) you can get the service you request.

When the government steps in it has to use either Age or Cost of service. That is why in the UK you just don't get a xray when you go to the emergency room. And MRIs are very hard to come by.
It is also why the NHS is stopping certain treatments if you older than 70.

A LOT of the cost in our health care system is due to the legal situation. A doctor may know exactly what is wrong with you ...but if they do not order tests and they happen to be wrong they can get sued. So they order tests to CYA.

Also because of lawsuits the Malpractice insurance is through the roof. Caping payouts and limiting lawsuits would reduce mailpractice exposure, which would reduce malpractice expense, which would lower doctor and hospital costs , which would lower cost to the consumer. That is the real key to fixing the US health system - get the lawyers out of it.

With the corrupt Obama born of the corrupt Chicago political machine in office, do you reallyb think that "the profits" that the insurance companies make would not instead line the pockets of Obama supporters and transform into contributions to Obama?

Regard Revko and his low income housing projects that were so incompetently planned and built that no one could ever live in them. Nevertheless, Revko was paid and made huge continuing contributions to Obama, including "helping Obama" acquire his personal home, a deal which should have sent Obama to prison along with Revko.

And payoffs to the unions. The workforce administering the programs would be unionized, and as in California, the private sector average salary is $30,000 per year compared to the $60,000 compensation package to state employees, together with state guaranteed pensions. Gosh, more than twice the salary cost should be reasonably anticipated.

Yes indeed. Obamacare will be cheaper. And pigs can fly. Get real.

***"Of course you were. That explains everything. I'm sure you didn't have to struggle for anything, so you cannot seem to imagine what it's like for someone who did. Oh, I'm sure your parents worked hard. I'm sure you did to. But working hard gets you a hell of a lot farther from the upper middle or top of the heap than in does from the bottom."***

Oh my God, you know me so well!!! How did you figure all that out by these few posts on this blog!!! Way to go Kreskin! You have no idea what I've seen during my time on this planet, and I'm not going to waste any time filling you in, it would take to long. But I will say this, the experiences of my life have left me stronger, and have lent to my general state of happiness, where as it appears that yours have left you bitter and angry. And that "explains everything."

Singer states the "need" to ration health care as an imperative, and a goal to be achieved.

Because the resource is not sufficient to provide unlimited care to all, "rationing" is a function of the existing system. What Singer and others of his mindset want is an "allocation" of health care according to standards that they set.

These are pretty arrogant folks, and if they proceed to follow the guidelines of other programs, then expensive care will be denied, which will disproportionately impact the elderly and disabled, and those with orphan diseases most heavily, and substitute "soft euthanasia" resulting from denial of care as a substitute for efforts to prolong life.

The "costs" that may decrease as technological and sicientific advances are shunted to the side and not employed, are ephemeral as once the politicians get their hands on this cash cow, you can be sure that it will go into the pockets of union workers compensated at rates double those of private sector union workers, and corrupt cronies of the politicians.

Flimflam. Scam.

i'm really not sure why you are so hell bent that I should provide someone else's opinion as proof of my own. Believe what you want.

Here, let me do a quick poll--of all the people i know who have had abortions, friends, relatives, aquiantences, co workers, probably all told about 25 or 30, absolutely NONE of them had abortions because they "couldn't be bothered." So, from that, I'm left to assume that those "can't be bothered" people must belong to a group of people I'm not terribly aqainted with--basically, that would be RICH assholes and thier snot nosed spoiled brat children who fuck anything that moves because they are bored. and those kids are not going to planned parenthood or medicaid to cleanup thier mess, they go to their family doctor who has played golf at the club with dad for years. Sorry, no actual testimonial evidence, but I am pretty sure that this can be considered a given.

You mistake my overt cynissism for anger. I'm not angry. not even a little. but you seem to be. maybe you should get your blood pressure checked. Of course, I hope you have really good insurance. Really, why should the tax payers have to pay for it when you fall off that ivory tower you live in and break your hip.

"This is the man who favors legalizing infanticide at the discretion of the parents until the baby is one year of age."

One year of age?

I know parents who favor legalizing infanticide at the discretion of the parents until the baby is eighteen years of age.

Some favor it even longer.

lol...people who subscrible to the "I brought you into this world, and by God, i'll take you out!" philosophy?

So, someone that saves your stinkin life should take big pay cuts so you can pay some pro athlete more?

#8 | Posted by Sniper at 2009-07-20 10:56 AM | Reply |

Why would I pay a pro athlete more? Where the fuck does that come from? I'd buy hookers.

#52 | Posted by truthsetyoufree at 2009-07-20 04:10 PM

I know parents who favor legalizing infanticide at the discretion of the parents until the baby is eighteen years of age.

Some favor it even longer.

Leviticus 20 (New International Version)

Leviticus 20
Punishments for Sin

9 " 'If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.

****************************** **********************

Well, if it's linked to behavior, it may be consonant with Biblical teachings, but I don't think that gratuitous killing of children is permitted.

#51 | Posted by missesmerelda at 2009-07-20 03:54 PM

... "can't be bothered" people must belong to a group of people I'm not terribly aqainted with--basically, that would be RICH assholes and thier snot nosed spoiled brat children who fuck anything that moves because they are bored. and those kids are not going to planned parenthood or medicaid to cleanup thier mess, they go to their family doctor who has played golf at the club with dad for years. Sorry, no actual testimonial evidence, but I am pretty sure that this can be considered a given.

You mistake my overt cynissism for anger. I'm not angry. not even a little. but you seem to be. maybe you should get your blood pressure checked. Of course, I hope you have really good insurance. Really, why should the tax payers have to pay for it when you fall off that ivory tower you live in and break your hip. (Bolding added.)

Well, you certainly sound as if you've spent your life's time dwelling on your "victimhood," and the glorious life you could have had if you were not consigned to the lower levels of society by birth. The demimonde seems to fit your needs. You can stay there and attribute your position not to the human condition generally, but to your particular circumstances due to what? Only speculation, but you present yourself as one who is a race focused failure, who whatever her accomplishments might be, will still consider herself a failure. Otherwise, you use race as a sop for your inadequacies. I suppose it helps boost self-esteem. A man's a man for a that Miss, and so's a woman. The human condition overrides all other aspects of the life of a human being.

#6 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2009-07-20 10:19 AM

Rationing happens to poor and middle class people all the time under the system we have thats why no one is complaining about it.

A remedy should be instituted for an unreasonably limited formulary, as well as overly restrictive limitations on conditions that will be treated, and exclusion for pre-existing conditions needs to be eliminated. But the remedy is not government administration and designation of limits. There is no "higher authority" to compel a more liberal allowance structure for the government, and in times of budgetary distress, watch out.

Welcome to the Obama economy. Like the old school Soviet Union, we will ration healthcare, ration food, ration gas, ration everything.

Obama is first class piece of dogsh!t. He is destroying this economy while he wines and dines his wife on $25,000 taxpayer funded dates to New York. His ugly steriod muscle he-man arms looking wife is running around in $500 sneakers and carrying $900 clutches. The Obamas suck ass.

***Well, you certainly sound as if you've spent your life's time dwelling on your "victimhood," and the glorious life you could have had if you were not consigned to the lower levels of society by birth. The demimonde seems to fit your needs. You can stay there and attribute your position not to the human condition generally, but to your particular circumstances due to what? Only speculation, but you present yourself as one who is a race focused failure, who whatever her accomplishments might be, will still consider herself a failure. Otherwise, you use race as a sop for your inadequacies. I suppose it helps boost self-esteem. A man's a man for a that Miss, and so's a woman. The human condition overrides all other aspects of the life of a human being.***

I'm confused. When did I ever say I was talking about myself, other than to say I don't personally know any rich people. and by "rich," I mean of say, Paris hilton stature. You are saying I blame my alleged failure on my race? What race do you think I am?

And, why do you think I percieve myself as a failure? I am exactly where I want to be. Sure, it would have been nice to be a Hilton, but who the fuck wants to carry around a stupid dog in a purse and be eternally clueless? not me. I was making comments based on my observations about what I see around me in society as a whole.

This is not anger. I am not a victim. I am observant and I have an opinion. i'm sorry that it conflicts with the opinions of others, oh fuck it, no I'm not.

This is a free country and if I feel the need to tell someone they are being selfrighteous or that based on thier opinion, my opnion is that they should do something, I can. It's one of the few things I still love about America.

One does not need to be ANGRY to be outspoken.

One does not need to be a crack whore to empathize with how she feels, want a better life for her children, or to state the fact that she probably shouldn't have one.

One does not need to spout convoluted diatribe about the human condition to make them feel smarter, unless they have deep seated unrealized self esteem issues.

I am who I am. I believe what I believe. According to MENSA, I'm pretty damn smart, so you really don't need to try to put me in my place. Like I said before, I'm right where I want to be. If you don't like the way I say, then fuck off.

And let me just state one more time for the record, I'm not angry, I'm actually mildly amused that people would vest so much time to analyze me feelings enough to think that I'm angry. I am afraid that sarcasm does not translate well on the internet.

Oh and just to be clear, are you calling me a whore or just a loser?

demimonde
Noun
1. (esp. in the 19th century) a class of women considered to be outside respectable society because of promiscuity
2. any group considered not wholly respectable [French: half-world]

Here, let me do a quick poll--of all the people i know who have had abortions, friends, relatives, aquiantences, co workers, probably all told about 25 or 30, absolutely NONE of them had abortions because they "couldn't be bothered."

#51 | Posted by missesmerelda

Bullshit I highly doubt you know 25 or 30 people that have had abortions and if you do there is no way in hell that all 25 or 30 had them because of rape, incest or deformities. I'm also sure if you do know that many people who have had abortions some of them used "couldn't be bothered" as a reason when you say they can't afford the child that means they "can't be bothered" to actually find a job and support a child they made.

If you don't believe me prove me wrong that seems to work for you thought I'd give it a try.

He is a scum whose demise cannot come too soon. Let us pray to God twith the precatory prayer asking that Singer gets his just desserts as early as possible.

#46 | POSTED BY JOHNSON AT 2009-07-20 03:11 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Ya, I've gotta go with Johnson here. Singer's an ass who thinks cost/benefit analyses are o.k. when it comes to human life. Would even equate animals with humans in this connection.

He should be careful, though, I'm pretty sure he would be considered a waste of space in his world, and they'd decide he wasn't worth the cost of an aspirin. so, he should probably be a little more careful about what he wishes for.

I am exactly where I want to be.

#59 | Posted by missesmerelda

And that's why you'll never be "rich" or know any "rich" people lack of motivation.

***Bullshit I highly doubt you know 25 or 30 people that have had abortions and if you do there is no way in hell that all 25 or 30 had them because of rape, incest or deformities. I'm also sure if you do know that many people who have had abortions some of them used "couldn't be bothered" as a reason when you say they can't afford the child that means they "can't be bothered" to actually find a job and support a child they made.
***

Try to keep up here, I never said that they were all for rape, incest or deformities, I said that there reasons were not because they couldn't be bothered. If you think about it, most people know at least that many people who have had abortions, wether they are aware of it or not as according to the center for bioethical reform, "Likelihood of abortion:
An estimated 43% of all women will have at least 1 abortion by the time they are 45 years old. 47% of all abortions are performed on women who have had at least one previous abortion." I know an awful lot of people, how about you?

The demographic that I am referring to is people who make a RESPONSIBLE choice, knowing that for what ever reason, they are unwilling or unprepared to take care of a child. Those are the children that, if the mother is forced to give birth to the, are so much more likely to be victims of abuse, neglect, or the other symptoms of poverty. I'm really having a difficult time understanding why this is not clear, I'm writing in english. Perhaps your reading comprehension skills need work. I would draw a picture, but I don't have the "motivation."

Lots of people have jobs and work very hard and are still not rich. I'm pretty sure the guy that cleans the toilet where you work has kids and has worked hard his entire life, but he's still cleaning the toilet, and you are still spouting shit.

Poverty has about as little to do with motivation as Wealth has to do with intelligence. Rich kids go to better schools, get better breaks. Poor kids go to substandard public schools and can work just as hard or harder and not get into Harvard Business School. Does that make them substandard human beings? Does that make them lazy? Does that make them stupid? Apparently, in your world, it does.

Misses;

I want to make sure I have this straight...you know 25 - 30 women who have had abortions?

You supposedly took a "poll" asking those women why they had an abortion and they ALL answered you (within 49 minutes from your post prior till the time you posted this claim. Doesn't leave a whole lot of time to contact 30 women much less time enough for them to answer), ALL were available to speak with you and they ALL said they didn't have one because they couldn't be bothered??

Why did they have one then?

Something tells me this is one whopper of a story!!

Yeah, because heaven forbid you use the google and discover how incredibly easy it is to prove how full of shit your comments are. I mean, I think I had to sort through one whole result before getting to the article linked. Tough stuff. Easier to just watch TV all day and drool, isn't it?

#23 | Posted by kevin23 at 2009-07-20 12:38 PM | Reply

PERFECT example of why many of us on the "RIGHT" side of issues think twice about taking the 'gloves' off because even when we do, its greeted with this bullshit from goddamn democrats and liberals...

so kiss my big fat white ass and while you are at it.

oh nevermind...

if goddamn democrats want to look at the future under this obamacare..
look no further than to MASS..

report today showed they are looking at 1.3 billion that they dont have
20 % of people are complaing of long waits to see a doctor
and they just tossed out 30 million LEGAL immigrants from the plan because of costs.
so whats next...throw out all red headed people.
or maybe anyone with an accent other than a mass one....

and there are more cuts coming from other services to pay for this nonsense........

sally pipes was reporting from her book about it and as she said

RIGHT now canada has a way out of thier crap..
they just cross the border, but they cant in MASS because THEY ARE GOING FRIGGIN BROKE>..

AND yesterday on meet the press

gregory asked the BABY KILLER FAN sect of HHS about the cbo statement that what WE HAVE SAID ALL ALONG WAS TRUE about the cost..

and she said that the house and senate are working on that appriasial

BULLSHIT>.the goddamn democrats in those houses are working on it...they are excluding the republicans on every front and WHY>>>

thats easy...the more they exclude them the more they can tell YOU DUPES here that the republicans are just saying no when they arent allowing them to say ANYthing other than NO in the media

and you dupes are lapping it up every day

#59 | Posted by missesmerelda at 2009-07-20 06:30 PM |

I am who I am. I believe what I believe. According to MENSA, I'm pretty damn smart, so you really don't need to try to put me in my place. Like I said before, I'm right where I want to be. If you don't like the way I say, then fuck off.

And let me just state one more time for the record, I'm not angry, I'm actually mildly amused that people would vest so much time to analyze me feelings enough to think that I'm angry. I am afraid that sarcasm does not translate well on the internet.

As to my speculation regarding your race, your method of expression, your sense of victimhood, your orthography, your low self-esteem, your couth, and the toughness and aggressiveness you exude, lead me to guess that you are "a person of color." Do I win a kewpie doll?

"PERFECT example of why many of us on the "RIGHT" side of issues think twice about taking the 'gloves' off because even when we do, its greeted with this bullshit from goddamn democrats and liberals...

so kiss my big fat white ass and while you are at it."

Ahh, you poor sensitive little snowflake. I'm neither liberal nor democrat. So you can take your hypersensitive, overly-assumptive ass elsewhere for kissin. Now back to the lazy-boy you go! Until Rush and Fox News get you so mad you gotta spout off again.

TAXPAYER MONEY TO PAY FOR MURDER OF innocent life in the womb

Murder is something that happens to people.

Fetuses are not people.

Sounds like they couldn't be bothered to me.
The demographic that I am referring to is people who make a RESPONSIBLE choice, knowing that for what ever reason, they are UNWILLING or UNPREPARED to take care of a child.

#64 | Posted by missesmerelda

Sounds like they couldn't be bothered to me.

"Lots of people have jobs and work very hard and are still not rich. I'm pretty sure the guy that cleans the toilet where you work has kids and has worked hard his entire life, but he's still cleaning the toilet, and you are still spouting shit."

Well if your theoretical toilet cleaner believes "I am exactly where I want to be." he has little or no motivation and if you've worked your whole life and haven't moved up past toilet cleaner you have a real problem.

#14 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2009-07-20 11:58 AM

... those things you mention sound real good but can be taken care of without FORCING me to sanction the takin of INNOCENT life in the womb in many cases simply because the mother and/or father just dont want to be bothered...........

What would the composition of this country be like if the eugenicists, the Sanger crowd, had not be so active? The demogrphics would be even more favorable for long-term domination of the political scene by the bread and circuses party, who could deplete the country's capital incrementally until they achieved widespread impoverishment of the population.

Ahh, you poor sensitive little snowflake. I'm neither liberal nor democrat. So you can take your hypersensitive, overly-assumptive ass elsewhere for kissin. Now back to the lazy-boy you go! Until Rush and Fox News get you so mad you gotta spout off again.

#70 | Posted by kevin23 at 2009-07
I dont give a fuck what you say you are or you arent..I just know that you are an asshole who couldnt recognize when I was trying to have a conversation with you so...just move on

Fetuses are not people.

#71 | Posted by snoofy at 2009-

seen an ultrasound lately...

and we now know that they have a memory,,,,

yeah,.,..just plasms of some kind of goo

AND what about that heartbeat as well....

TODAY white house announced a DELAY in putting out economic indicators..

and it may not be until AFTER barry's deadline for having something to sign on health care

at least thats what RUSH said earlier so lets see if he is right.

and IF he is....will this even make it to the staterun media..that he is purposely holding back obviously MORE BAD NEWS until after that....

rush then read a post from barry on whitehouse web site talking about how his administration was going to be the most transparent one EVER..

what a fuckin joke and liar

***As to my speculation regarding your race, your method of expression, your sense of victimhood, your orthography, your low self-esteem, your couth, and the toughness and aggressiveness you exude, lead me to guess that you are "a person of color." Do I win a kewpie doll? ***

No, but i'm sure that the "real girl" in your closet could use a workout, and if she's not in the mood, go fuck yourself. You certainly did a great job of demonstrating what a racist pig you are. And now, i am angry. Not because you think I'm a "person of color," but because you are such a fucking moron that you can't seem to comprehend my simple statements, proclaim that I'm stupid, and then deduce from that the I must be "a person of color." Your head is so far up your ass that I bet you can see your tonsils.

Just for the record, I'm a white woman from a 2 parent working class family. I graduated from high school. I went to college. I have a fairly decent, if not terribly ambitious job. I think it's very interesting that you would make assumptions about me based on my opinions.

Considering what you think about my opinions, what does that say about you?

I think it's very interesting that you would make assumptions about me based on my opinions.

Considering what you think about my opinions, what does that say about you?

#78 | Posted by missesmerelda at 2009-07-20 08:20 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

you must be new here

what you are talking about is the official DR sport and pasttime...

your posts have been pretty good as far as I can see

but that "go fuck yourslef" comment

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH thats nasty,......

***Well if your theoretical toilet cleaner believes "I am exactly where I want to be." he has little or no motivation and if you've worked your whole life and haven't moved up past toilet cleaner you have a real problem.***

Not everyone wants or needs to be rich. That doesn't mean that their hard work, blood, sweat, and tears are worth less than yours.

Not really new, actually been lurking for a very long time, I just don't really post all that often. I do actually enjoy the official DR sport and pasttime however...lol.

#78 | Posted by missesmerelda at 2009-07-20 08:20 PM

I think it's very interesting that you would make assumptions about me based on my opinions.

No, but i'm sure that the "real girl" in your closet could use a workout, and if she's not in the mood, go fuck yourself.

Your head is so far up your ass that I bet you can see your tonsils.

You certainly did a great job of demonstrating what a racist pig you are.

And now, i am angry. Not because you think I'm a "person of color," but because you are such a fucking moron that you can't seem to comprehend my simple statements ...

... proclaim that I'm stupid, and then deduce from that the I must be "a person of color."

And where did I indicate that because you were stupid (which I did not) that that identified you as a person of color? I itemized other reasons. You suggest that they denote stupidity. They don't. Reread them.

Just for the record, I'm a white woman from a 2 parent working class family. I graduated from high school. I went to college. I have a fairly decent, if not terribly ambitious job.

Considering what you think about my opinions, what does that say about you?

Gosh, so many misspellings. I should read the posts for typos before I post them. Ah, I'm too impatient to do much editing.

Not everyone wants or needs to be rich. That doesn't mean that their hard work, blood, sweat, and tears are worth less than yours.

#80 | Posted by missesmerelda

Never said it was. Just stated the fact that if you've worked your whole life and you're over 20 years old and still clean toilets as your main source of income you have little or no motivation or you really love shit one of the two I'll let you decide.

By the way sexist it's typically one of the women who work for me that clean the toilet at the gallery. Why would you assume it was a man?

By the way MissEsmerelda, you sure do "talk trash." I'll bet your a sexy one indeed.

By the way MissEsmerelda, you sure do "talk trash." I'll bet your a sexy one indeed.

#85 | Posted by Johnson

This might just be the shortest comment you've ever posted.

*As to my speculation regarding your race, your method of expression, your sense of victimhood, your orthography, your low self-esteem, your couth, and the toughness and aggressiveness you exude, lead me to guess that you are "a person of color." Do I win a kewpie doll? *

So what is is exactly about my method of expression (I don't remember using any ebonics or any particularly ethnic expressions), my alleged "victimhood" which you have completely pulled out of thin air, my orthography(I have "i" before "e" issues at times I admit, and I had better things to do than take typing, so yes, there are typos here and there), my alleged "self esteem" issues (when I'm pretty sure I made it clear that I am pretty happy with myself), my "couth" (seriously, I know a lot of big words, but sometimes fuck says it best, and I assure you, that that not an ethnic trait), sure I'm tough and agressive--so are lots of people, apparently not you, would lead you to believe that I am a person of color? Because I defend poor people and all minorites are poor? Admit it, you stepped in it.

*By the way sexist it's typically one of the women who work for me that clean the toilet at the gallery. Why would you assume it was a man?*

I didn't. One of the most motivated and upstanding women I know cleans toilets for a living. She has built a fairly successful business of it, but she will still never be rich, or really any better than middle class. She's also very proud of her accomplishments. As should anyone who takes the hand they are dealt and makes a success of it. you don't have to have a house in the Hamptons to be a success.

#88 | Posted by missesmerelda

You didn't?

Perhaps you should read your #64 then get back to me.

You really don't think much of your friends I see.

"no better than middle class" well that's very supportive.

It's a fact, not a judgement. Unless she wins the lottery, she's never going to be rich. Since when is it so bad to be middle class?

Just because i stated it was a man does not make me sexist. Now if i said that "only" men clean toilets, that would be sexist. If I said that only "black men" clean toilets, I would be racist. I was using a generalization for the sake of brevity. I would think you would see the difference.

Misses:

I left you a post to respond to.

I'm interested in your response.

Did you see it?

Post #65 Misses.

Hi Treesgonewild!

TGW? Where is she?

CaloREES Gone Wild?

Zee Joan Wilder????

Since when is it so bad to be middle class?
#90 | Posted by missesmerelda

You're the one who said she would never be better than middle class so maybe you should ask yourself that question.

Going by your track record of false hoods and exaggerations it's probably a moot point anyway.

#91 | Posted by Lisa

Of course she saw it.

You just caught her what do you think she going to admit to her gross exaggerations?

Yes Lisa, i contacted every single person I have ever known who has had an abortion and they all miraculously were willing to give my their reasons in that time.

Christ, what is wrong with you people? you can't logically refute what I said so you attack word choice and actually thought when i said I was taking a poll i meant a literal one and not just a summary of past conversations I've had?

My head hurts.

I was having a conversation with my boss the other day (I work in Quality assurance so I have some experience with this) and we came to a conclusion--some people are idiots. They are not aware of it and it will never change, but the sooner you just accept it, the easier they will be to deal with. I'm accepting it.

So, you're calling me an idiot?

HMMMM....maybe we should take "a poll" to see which one of us is better qualified to claim that label.

(I work in Quality assurance so I have some experience with this)

#98 | Posted by missesmerelda

Well I For one certainly feel reassured.

Yes Lisa, i contacted every single person I have ever known who has had an abortion and they all miraculously were willing to give my their reasons in that time...

98 | Posted by missesmerelda at 2009-07-20 10:03 PM

Guess you're a "Twitterer"

I still don't know WTF a twitter is

So, you're calling me an idiot?

HMMMM....maybe we should take "a poll" to see which one of us is better qualified to claim that label.

#99 | Posted by Lisa

A poll da loco a poll just make that shit up. Then you can call someone an idiot.

It's some new form of "quickie instant messengering" where you're only allowed 140 characters per message.

Must be why it's never going to be much of a hit the female portion of our population.

I can't message anything when limited to only 140 characters of the alphabet. lol

Forgot to state my #104 was in response to this comment --

I still don't know WTF a twitter is

#102 | Posted by goatman at 2009-07-20 10:18 PM>/I>

If you're not quick enough, other posts sometimes jump up inbetween your answer.

"Must be why it's never going to be much of a hit the female portion of our population.

I can't message anything when limited to only 140 characters of the alphabet. lol"

And this is why men love it ;-)

Blew it. The last sentence in #105 shouldn't have been in italics.

So what's the difference between twitter and texting on a cell othe than message length?

And how did mankind ever survive without it?

TX?

I didn't call anyone an idiot, it was insinuated I was after I called her on her post.

I have no idea how mankind has survived without Twitter.

I don't even send text messages. Just an occasional email now and then.

#109 | Posted by Lisa

I realize you were called an idiot by someone who took a fake poll. Then you suggested that you should take a poll to which I said you don't need to take a poll just make the shit up like she did then you would be just as qualified as her to call someone an idiot.

Sorry for the confusion

And this is why men love it ;-)

#106 | Posted by AndreaMackris

FF -- so true.

#39 | Posted by missesmerelda

You my dear are waaaaaay to smart for your own good!

Instead of "smarty pants" they are called "misses meralda pants"...lol

Wonder what the excuse was for the gal who claimed she was hit by a motorcycle and suffered a miscarriage?

Her medical records showed she had 5 live births and 25--YES --25 abortions.

She was only 37 years old at the time. Wonder why she couldn't be bothered with getting the pill after the 1st abortion or the 2nd--or how about the 17th abortion??
----

And you are so quick to think of the evil done to children and never the vast majority of good that is done by and for children who are born. And the hope that they are for our future of humanity.

And you are negligent in your failure to think of the 40 million little ones who have been put to death since Roe was misdecided in the SCOTUS.

Maybe if there wasn't such a culture of death there wouldn't be so much evil and bad things happending to children now.

With your logic in that #39 post--You my dear are a confirmed eugenics supporter.

**applause**

You go girl.

lol--

#90 | Posted by missesmerelda at 2009-07-20 09:22 PM

Just because i stated it was a man does not make me sexist. Now if i said that "only" men clean toilets, that would be sexist. If I said that only "black men" clean toilets, I would be racist. I was using a generalization for the sake of brevity. I would think you would see the difference.

Merely because they ostensibly seem benign doesn't belie the bigoted nature of your position, which is predicated on sexism/racism.

Woo hoo Murph!!!

She obviously supports abortion as a method of birth control.

Oh wait...those abortions weren't done because children wouldn't be a "bother"...

OMGosh..that makes me sick to my stomach.

#86 | Posted by TXLIBERTARIAN at 2009-07-20 08:54 PM

By the way MissEsmerelda, you sure do "talk trash." I'll bet your a sexy one indeed.

#85 | Posted by Johnson

This might just be the shortest comment you've ever posted.

#118 | Posted by Johnson

You sum bitch you ;-)

I think you can come up with one even shorter.

If Obama holds true to form, then states that helped elect him will get more health care bucks than those who don't.

Damn, that might be a good idea... if you want to be dictator for life instead of commander and chief.

Rationing was at first vigorously denied by the administration as part of health care overhaul, but is now being at least tacitly admitted.

The underlying premise, is that people with money and resources should not have better health care because they can afford it. That's both a dangerous and self defeating premise.

"Fairness" doesn't mean that you lower health care standards to the point where everyone is equally miserable. If you fail to save, fail to accomplish, and squander your earning years, then you should not expect the same quality of life of someone that did.

We can and should have some societal backstops, even for those that behave stupidly, but it does not have to equal the lifestyle, including the level of healthcare, of those that did not.

A healthcare overhaul that would get away from redistribution and social engineering would be easier to pass, and easier to sustain.

But, we have to decide as a country, whether wealth and success are worthy goals, or something to be milked and redistributed. I vote the former.

#121
Well said.

No shit .. 80% of the health care costs are due to life saving procedures at the end of life that only extend life by 3 months..of course it has to be rationed.

Get government out of health care entirely, and leave the rationing up to other people.

Miss Esmeralda is really Miss Eugenics with that post #39.

Margaret Sanger would be so proud.

With that kind of thinking--she would call for Obama baby to be aborted.

Unmarried, single 16 year old with an interacial baby--should be commanded to abort the little one. After all, nothing but punishment and poorness and no hope with that one.

Well, at least they've come out and said it out loud. If this doesn't scare you away from socialized health care then nothing will. Rationing means getting rid of all sorts of medications and deciding who gets health care and when. And this is all decided by a few officials in an office building somewhere. Do some of you realize that if this goes thru that your health care will be in the hands of someone else? This reality doesn't scare you?

I think Hitler did the same thing; people with mental and physical defects were not as important as healthy people.

It can't be all that good...the Senate has voted to excuse themselves from participating in the proposed Health Care Legislation:

It astounds me how many people have responded to this topic that are completely incapable of comprehending the English language. Someone show me where I advocated for forcing abortions on anyone. I stated that it makes more economic sense for the government to pay for abortions for women who want them than for them to pay for the medical care of disabled babies or crack babies that would be born if their mothers did not have the choice, in respose to someone who was whining about the governement not paying for life extending medical practices, but paying for abortions. I never once said or implied that I thought people should be forced to have these abortions. I was referring to the topic--rationed health care and what could happen if abortions were not allowed or paid for by medicaid.

Lets recap...post #39

You would rather save your tender sensibilities and believe that being born is better for EVERY child than admit the fact that a very good percentage of children who are aborted may have been in horrible pain because of birth defects or other diseases or been born to parents who neither wanted or could afford to take care of them? Do you read the news? There are hundreds of sites dedicated to memorials for children who have been brutally abused and murdered by thier parents. There are children right in here in america who go to bed hungry every night. Who sleep in cars, under bridges, in doorways. Who are prostituted by drug addicted parents. Who die of neglect. Tell me, was it really better for them to be born and suffer like that?

And what happens to the ones who are strong enough to survive? They become the next generation. Well, "do unto others" seems like a pretty fucked up mantra if you stand in thier shoes.

My children were loved and wanted. They are lucky that way. I work hard and sacrifice anything I have to to take care of them. You probably feel the same way about your kids. But in the real world, not every child has such good fortune. Some children would have been much better off if they had never been born. This is the UGLY fact that prolifers would like to forget.

That is why I think if you want to remove choice and create even more of these children, that YOU should take responsibility for them. I have seen abused and neglected children. I read everyday about another one dying a horrible death. In this regard, I don't just support abortion, I support sterilization. Some people should never have children.

#98 | Posted by missesmerelda at 2009-07-20 10:03 PM

I was having a conversation with my boss the other day (I work in Quality assurance so I have some experience with this) and we came to a conclusion--some people are idiots. They are not aware of it and it will never change, but the sooner you just accept it, the easier they will be to deal with. I'm accepting it.

Lisa, I, and others are also probably above the imbecile classification.

You are so contradictory, MissEsmerelda. You claim particular empathy and compassion for certain folks, the poor and minorities, who are more likely to be stupid like those of us at whose posts you take umbrage, and yet your value system impels you to fling accusations of stupidity as an insult rather than as just reflective of condition and station.

MissEsmerelda, you seem to think that it is some sort of virtue to regard the world through the prism of class and race, and that it enobles you. Instead, it makes you a classist and a racist, who believe that the characteristics of these people distinguishes them from the humanity shared by others. The human condition is such MissEsmerelda, that it defines us far more than class and race. How do we feel about a love? Do we compete for affection? What are our ambitions? What music do we like? What do we want for our kids? But you as a classist and racist dampen all those considerations, submerging humanity under those markers.

YEAH WE have to ration health care allright

report from fox last night

USA>..colon cancer survival rate is in the 90's
great britian...survival rate is in the 50's
I guess they just drink the wrong water or something..it sure COULDNT be a socialist health care system could it???

I still don't get what your inane philosophical insults have to do with the rationing of health care Johnson, which is the topic I am addressing. I am using logic. You drone on and on about the human condition. This discussion was never about the human condition, it was about the rationing of a service or product. My comments were directed at more logical ways to spend money.

This got off track because people always want to demonize something they don't like. I'm being called a eugenist and things have been taken way out of context. I don't have a problem with anyone who is not as intelligent as I am--my problem is with people who try to make themselves look smarter by twisting words and conversations in a direction they were never meant to go and then droning on and on about the same nonsensical bullshit.

I never even mentioned race, YOU did! Then you drone on and on and on about that again. Talk about circular logic. Your big words and flowery phrasing may impress some people, but my astute judgement of you is this: you are a "wannabe" intellectual. I bet you graduated somewhere in the middle of the pack in your high school--not a low acheiver, but never the achedmic star who imagined yourself. You went to a state college, if at all, and have a technical, but not terribly important job that you hate. Just for kicks, you go on the internet and troll message boards, because yes, that is what you are, a troll. You maybe more eloquent than most trolls, but the intent is still there.

You take a normal, productive forum, stir up the usual suspects--the easily outraged and easily confused people looking for someone to blame. you become thier hero because you shut down the "bad people" who don't agree with them. Yes, I know you. People like you ruin forums because it is no longer possible to have an intelligent conversation once this shit starts. It becomes personal. Let me tell you, I could give a shit about you, but I take offense at my words and opinions being warped into something sick by someone with an agenda like yours--just to stir the pot.

So, do you have anything productive to say about the topic or would you rather continue to insult me and then pretend you didn't?

It's fun watching a guy who spends his days and nights preaching the red book on a political blog resort to crying "racist" and "classist". It's one thing to get beaten at your own game. Its quite something else to start sounding exactly like the hapless pray you'd normally pounce on in the process.

You say you're not a "classist". Then go on to say this. Take a close look especially at the last sentence.

Your big words and flowery phrasing may impress some people, but my astute judgement of you is this: you are a "wannabe" intellectual. I bet you graduated somewhere in the middle of the pack in your high school--not a low acheiver, but never the achedmic star who imagined yourself. You went to a state college, if at all, and have a technical, but not terribly important job that you hate.

#132 | Posted by missesmerelda

Hey dumbass you may want to go about your arguments a bit differently. I think you proved his point while trying to refute it.

Also are you required to have at least 3 misspelled words in your post to qualify as a "real" intellectual?

Please explain to me how that is "classist?" I did not respond to his "class" in anyway in that statement. You are the one that insinuated earlier that it is a bad thing to be middle class. Middle class is generally considered an income level, not a hindu type caste.

Odd that people keep accusing me of things by quoting me, but then never actually say why or what it is about what I said that is actually proving their point.

Oh--I'm pretty sure that pointed out my typing inadequacies make you feel better about yourself, but I'm not going to sweat a few typos when most of the people who post on the internet have absolutely no regard for spelling, grammar, punctuation, or a blatent misuse of the English language.

Speaking of which--hey johnson, you still have not clarified whether of not you were calling me a whore or a loser when you completely misused the word demimonde.

"The demimonde seems to fit your needs. You can stay there and attribute your position not to the human condition generally, but to your particular circumstances due to what? "

Even in context, this sentence makes no sense. Grammar Johnson, grammar. Stop raping the language for effect and say what you mean. You have mixed tenses, incomplete convoluted sentence structure, misused words. I'm stunned that you can post such drivel with a straight face.

Well, at least they've come out and said it out loud. If this doesn't scare you away from socialized health care then nothing will. Rationing means getting rid of all sorts of medications and deciding who gets health care and when. And this is all decided by a few officials in an office building somewhere. Do some of you realize that if this goes thru that your health care will be in the hands of someone else? This reality doesn't scare you?

#126 | Posted by everlong

no dumbass.. I bet you piss yourself every night you fall asleep. I wish you fuckwads would for once stop scare mongering and do something instead of steal oxygen from the rest of the planet