Aw, shucks!

"Gen. David McKiernan was "dismayed, disappointed, and more than a little embarrassed" when he was ousted as the commander of NATO forces in Afghanistan, he said at his retirement ceremony."

I was about to say what did he expect with a new administration, but then I remembered that its just a lipstick change on a corpulent pig.

"dismayed, disappointed, and more than a little embarrassed"

Getting shit-canned has been known to have that effect.

After a few more drinks he said, "I was gonna have a whole bunch of people killed and now I can't do it. Someone else gets to do it now I suppose. Lucky bastard".

Actually, He's Lucky he got out. The Taliban live off the land and are playing "rope a dope". In the end whoever's in charge is going to look like General Westmoreland. Victory being just around the corner and all. Keep sending those taxpayer dollars and we'll win this thing.

NUTCASE what bullshit.

The Taliban aren't playing rope-a-dope any more now than in 2002 when their backs were up against the wall. The only reason they've made a 'comeback' is that Rumsfeld starved the area of resources allowing them to regain their strength.

Mchrystal--a Special Operations officer--understands the COIN/guerrilla nature of the battle unlike Westmoreland--a mainline Army officer like McKiernan--who could never understand the hearts and minds aspects of the Vietnam war.

Get your facts straight before spouting bullshit.

#6

Resources, like the poppy crop that began to flourish again after U.S. Troops invaded?

The Taliban got rid of the poppy crop since Muslims are opposed to drugs. Of course now that they need the money to finance operations......

The Taliban are very unpopular in Afghanistan. The only thing they provide is a false sense of security (do what we tell you and we won't chop your kids heads off). The Pakistanis got tired of them and are pushing them out, and I think the Afghans will too.

when the boss loses faith in your ability to get the job done, pack the desk.

how the hell can POTUS judge a military leader? as if he's ever exercised any leadership or would understand how to... which company has POTUS run? which branch of the armed services did POTUS serve in? he probably got a dead fish from Rham with a note telling him what to do. kinda like a fortune cookie.

#10 | Posted by edb

Maybe that's why Presidents have Secretaries of Defense, Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Senior Commanders?

EDB,

Your god and savior, Jeff Gannon's girlfriend was a draft dodging coward. How did that prepare him to be CIC?

In the end whoever's in charge is going to look like General Westmoreland. Victory being just around the corner and all. Keep sending those taxpayer dollars and we'll win this thing.

#5 | Posted by nutcase

I thought all you libs figured this was the JUST war? This was going to BHOs shinning moment.

Get your facts straight before spouting bullshit.

#6 | Posted by kickerofelves at 2009-07-16 09:19 AM | Reply | Flag: Needs to read about russia's failed attempt.

how the hell can POTUS judge a military leader?-EDB

Just a year into his appointment, however, Bushie hero Defense Secretary Robert Gates asked for McKiernan's resignation, citing a need for "new thinking and new ideas" in Afghanistan. Reading is essential.

###
Snippy- Obama can't do any worse than Nixon did in VN, or Bush did in Iraq-Peace with Honorable Mention. You rightfully slam LBJ for VN without mentioning Bush had longer to do the job in either afghanistan (85 months)OR Iraq (69 months)than LBJ had in VN, (61 months) and yet accomplished nothing more than LBJ, against far weaker enemies.

ElfKicker,

Conventional NATO forces can not live off the land and are entirely dependent on a massive thru-put of food, fuel, water, ammunition, and spare parts. British forces are forced to move at a snail's pace, because of the uncertain menace posed Taliban's ever-present mine threat.

A Times report makes it clear that the Taliban's strategic target is the mind of their adversary. The Taliban's operational "schwerpunckt" is to use an omnipresent physical menace (manifesting itself through a welter of large and small attacks, and when faced with opposition, running away to fight another day, as well as mine warfare, terror, etc.) is to undermine mental and moral stability of their adversaries. This focus on the mind is a way of war that is entirely consistent with the thinking expressed in the first book ever written on the art war by the Chinese philosopher Sun Tzu, as well as their modern incarnation in the guerrilla theories of Mao Zedong.

NATO force "schwerpunkt" is entirely physical. It is aimed directly at controlling checkpoints and lines of communication. This new strategy, named Clear, Hold, Build by the Americans, is actually the resurrection of a famous old failed colonialist strategy.

History has shown repeatedly that conventionally-inspired military action (especially interdiction operations aimed at choking off the supplies and reinforcements and destroying the so-called safe havens of the adversary) aimed at achieving an unconventional end (winning hearts and minds of the people in a guerilla war) can easily degenerate into a mindless, fire-power centric war driven by conventional military thinking.

The Soviets, for example, tried to win the hearts and minds of the Afghan people, but lost sight of their goal and eventually became ensnared in a struggle for control of Afghan LOCs. This degenerated into a firepower intensive bloodbath in which the Soviets inflicted horrendous damage. B; but, in the end, they had to leave Afghanistan with their tail between their legs.

From Frank "Chuck" Spinney former military analyst for the Pentagon

According to Alex Cockburn, NATO "Contract" supply transporters are paying the Taliban $170,000 per convoy in order to get through critical mountain passes. Its about spending and testing new technologies, not winning. Spending we cannot afford.

I forgot to mention wasting millions of valueless Afghan lives and eventually thousands of lower class American & NATO troops.

Snippy- Obama can't do any worse than Nixon did in VN, or Bush did in Iraq-Peace with Honorable Mention. You rightfully slam LBJ for VN without mentioning Bush had longer to do the job in either afghanistan (85 months)OR Iraq (69 months)than LBJ had in VN, (61 months) and yet accomplished nothing more than LBJ, against far weaker enemies.

#15 | Posted by northguy3

I guess you don't know any history at all.

The Viet Nam war was launched by LBJ because of his lie about the Gulf of Tonkin. Prior to that we had a few advisors there.

Almost 60,000 of our troops were killed there.

LBJ did not run for a second term because he knew he would get his sorry ass whipped.

NUTCASE, that's a raft of shit you're putting forth.

You acquainted McChrystal with Westmoreland when he's the anti-thesis of him (McKiernan is part of the same 'conventional' Army Westmoreland was a part of, McChrystal isn't. You don't seem aware of that.

Spinney is an engineer who hasn't done one day of troop leadership, historical research and wouldn't know a tactical or operational plan if it was put in front of him. For some reason this bozo became one of the press' go-to guy in areas he's completely ignorant of.

His comments about 'history' come from an engineer and tech analyst who isn't aware--apparently--that the 'Surge' or the current attempt at strategy in Afghanistan is based on successful COIN ops in Malaysia, El Sal and the Philippines along with analysis of the failures all of which the new COIN FM was based upon.

I've forgotten more about the Soviet Army in Afghanistan than that engineer has ever known.

His account of the Soviet 'hearts and minds' campaign is sorely lacking in facts. The campaign was half-hearted and conducted by Spetnatz generally then by the larger 'conventional Red Army'.

During my own time in Russia and Ukraine I spoke with a few dozen veterans of that war and 'hearts and minds' were the last thing on the agenda for the Red Army.

Whatever it's worth, I spent a tour in Afghanistan and one in Iraq.

I forgot to mention wasting millions of valueless Afghan lives and eventually thousands of lower class American & NATO troops.

#17 | Posted by nutcase at 2009-07-16 02:34 PM

you and John Kerry must be hanging out. you are showing your ass again scumbag. now tell us how you support the troops...

I wouldn't call McChrystal a career door-kicker -- a little over 1 year in an SF ODA (1980) before moving on to conventional forces, then Ranger commands. either way, both seem to be well qualified, exceptional soldiers. i'm happy to have them both. i just hate to see a leader put out to pasture without completing his tour in command. had egregious failures occurred under his watch, it would be a different story. i'm not buying the rationale behind replacing him.

we are deploying USMC, and regular US Army units to Afghanistan -- not exactly outside the box, and definitely not Spec Ops.

#21 | Posted by edb I wouldn't call McChrystal a career door-kicker...

Compared to a Cav or any other conventional branch an SF branched CDR has--practically to some extent and theoretically--a better mindset for the COIN battle.

Of course having a nimble mind and some tough experiences that can help you grasp things trumps everything (Odierno 'getting it' in Iraq).

As individuals no question these guys are both top notch, I think McKiernon was ill-served by his predecessors at the Pentagon who starved the AO of resources.

Of course we're deploying conventional forces to theater, but Odierno's approach in Iraq shows how the sensitivity to COIN ops can influence a campaign.

The Viet Nam war was launched by LBJ because of his lie about the Gulf of Tonkin.

Did they have WMD, too?

Actually the war started in the 1950s, under Ike, following his tie game with NK. And LBJ did account for about 60% of the KIA. Nixon, the surrender monkey, the other 40%.

in the 50's it was the French fighting to keep their colony. we had advisors there from 1950 onward, but the French didn't leave until 1954. the "war", as we know it, was JFK and LBJ's affair. Nixon ran on a platform of ending it. all the hippies should've loved that. however, they prefer to sling shit at (R)s. they also forgive the (D)s for pushing what they hate (the war).

hindsight isn't 20/20, it's subjective. kinda like BHO; budget deficits are bad under Bush, but fantastic and absolutely necessary when quadrupled under his eminence.

Nixon ran on a platform of ending it.

After spending his first term bombing the fuck out of everything, including neighboring countries, he traded SVN for a luncheon with Mao during his second.

hindsight isn't 20/20, it's subjective. kinda like BHO; budget deficits are bad under Bush, but fantastic and absolutely necessary when quadrupled under his eminence.

Or as noted Democrat Dick Cheney put it:
O'Neill said he tried to warn Vice President Dick Cheney that growing budget deficits-expected to top $500 billion this fiscal year alone-posed a threat to the economy. Cheney cut him off. "You know, Paul, Reagan proved deficits don't matter," he said. Cheney continued: "We won the midterms (congressional elections). This is our due."

Sigh, reality and the right......

"Dismayed, disappointed and more than a little embarrassed"....for getting canned by the Obama team..???? get real, you are probably more fortunate than most to get out from under this abomination of an administration.. there is nothing to feel bad about getting canned from a 'preppy wannabe', who got promoted because of BS over substance and ability...
that is like being in the corporate world, holding a position for several years, having been promoted to a high ranking position and have some young, 'off the street' MBA preppy come into a position due to presentation over experience and ability and fires you the next day...
Be proud for your accomplishments and do not give this decision a moment's notice...it will only give more ignorant support to this bunch of cowboys..!!!

#6
Resources, like the poppy crop that began to flourish again after U.S. Troops invaded?
#7 | Posted by Scrumplet at 2009-07-16 09:41 AM

Isn't that why the Brits handed it over to the US? To maintain the opium and marijuana crops?

I'll read the thread past your post in a bit. Neighbor needs help.

EDB,
To really support our troops, the homeless, the hungry and destitute, you must renounce war. This is something the Military Industrial Complex is incapable of understanding or maybe they're happy to kill for money. There's big money in killing, as long as its "official business"..

Elfkicker,

Well either what the Army told you was bullshit or we're really winning over there. Care to bet a free airline ticket to San Thomas who's right?