One of my best friends, now deceased, was an ex-Special Forces medic in 'Nam.

He was managing a restaurant with a two table bar in Lafayette, La. when one late night an acquaintance was in the bar flashing a small auto pistol around.

The same guy was standing around in the parking lot with a bunch of other drunks after the bar closed. My friend, Rick (not his real name), was about 5'6" and the guy was easily over 6'. Rick walked up to him and said something to him which I could not hear.

The idiot came back with some smartass remark while resting his right hand over the pocket with the gun. Mistake.

Rick delivered a perfect spinning back kick to the guy's head and reminded the guy, who was surprised to be on his back on the ground, that no guns were allowed in his joint.

No point being made here, I have just like to tell that story.

No point being made here, I have just like to tell that story.

#1 | Posted by silver_ironist

There's always a point. People just see it from different angles. Hopefully not looking up at the stars or at the asphalt.

Stoooopid is as stoooopid does.

Mixing alcohol and firearms is really, really bad policy.
A lot of innocent people are going to die for this crapola.

Mixing alcohol and firearms is really, really bad policy.
A lot of innocent people are going to die for this crapola.

Only if the safety is off that 9mm in the bottom of their martini glass.

Actually, when I feel the need to partake of a beverage with a firearm in it, I don't load it.

Alcohol and firearms.

What could go wrong?

A lot of innocent people are going to die for this crapola.

that's what people said about concealed carry.

"BLOOD IN THE STREETS!!!"

that's what people said about concealed carry.

Wow.

Did you just compare the right to carry a concealed firearm with the right to carry said firearm along with you on a tequila bender?

Remember... guns don't kill people. Drunk idiots kill people. There's no sense in enabling them.

Common sense needs to take over at some point.

Drunk idiots prior to this never carried into a bar!

-- ZombieHunter

I always get a kick out of people who thought the old days were better.

Well here ya go, a remnant from the "old days".

Drunk idiots prior to this never carried into a bar!

The whole "criminals don't obey gun laws in the first place" line doesn't fit in this situation. Sure, Plaxico Burris didn't care that it was illegal to bring a gun into the bar, and he almost blew his nuts off. Plaxico is a moron.

This law places law-abiding citizens in a position where they will be armed with a 9mm instead of their fists or a pool cue while intoxicated.

You can't tell me that this is a good idea.

Christ, Darwin must be chuckling in his grave.

So if that's okay, why can't I drive with a roady tucked between my legs???

Soooo if I lived in AZ/TN, I could legally pack heat while getting shitfaced drunk...

Meanwhile, if a cop saw me sparking a joint in the park or at the intersection in my neighborhood, I'd have hell to pay. Even if I were intending to just go home, watch some Aqua Teen Hunger Force, and repeatedly "wax" my carrot...

OOOOKay....

"Soooo if I lived in AZ/TN, I could legally pack heat while getting shitfaced drunk..."

I can only speak for Texas, but if you're legally packing and blow >0.08%, you're in deep shit.

Zat: truth. dont go packin and drinkin and gettin caught

Cool. I'll have a stag and box of deer slugs.

"States Allow Weapons in Bars"

That's why I'm honing my dart game.

"is the latest example of loosening gun laws in a country already renowned for its lax approach to firearms."

I felt compelled to go no further after reading the above BS line.

Our laws in this country pertaining to firearms can hardly be conceived as lax.

In the state I reside, by law, we are forced to possess a FOID card and can neither buy nor sell firearms or ammo without it. We have to break down the guns to and from the field. In our homes they are to be kept in safes along with trigger locks.

Our laws are hardly lax.

I suggest the author of this bs doesn't have a clue about firearms nor the criminal elements that could give a shit less about " the laws governing them".

"Soooo if I lived in AZ/TN, I could legally pack heat while getting shitfaced drunk..."

I can only speak for Texas, but if you're legally packing and blow >0.08%, you're in deep shit.

If you blow .01 your in deep shit period.

Nothing wrong with gun control I use 2 hands.

#19: Move.

It is illegal in my state to cary a switch-blade knife. Why isn't the NRA all over this 2nd amendment travesty?

Remember... guns don't kill people. Drunk idiots kill people. There's no sense in enabling them.

What makes you think a law abiding, licensed gun owner would put himself into that position? The type of person who'd use a gun in a bar fight won't care if it's legal to carry it there. Whereas a person who has taken the time and spent the money to legally obtain the gun and license will not simply carry it there because he now can. More than likely, if they're planning on getting smashed they'll leave it home. If they're the DD, maybe they'll take it. It's not so black and white that because it's legal they will DEFINITELY carry it.

Restaurants serving alcohol is one thing, but I'm about as pro-gun as they come and don't think people should be packing firearms is a goddamn bar.

Don't get me wrong, as there's few things on earth more fun than getting Baron von Shithausen and driving around the ranch at night with a spotlight in a '72 Bronco with your buddies and blasting the shit out of javelinas and jackrabbits. Guns and alcohol certainly have their place.

Just not at a public bar.

Why isn't the NRA all over this 2nd amendment travesty?

Because it's the national RIFLE association. Any other stupid questions?

These laws prove that legislatures should not be allowed to pass laws while drunk.

Well this goes just a wee bit to far.

If I read the article right it says the government will force a business owner to allow guns on his or her property.

Well that's just bullshit if someone owns a bar and wants to allow guns on their property they should have that right, but if they don't wish to allow guns on their property the government shouldn't force them to.

If you want to take your gun to a bar and the owner doesn't permit guns find a drinking establishment that does.

I suggest this one.

In AZ the bar can post a sign saying no guns.

When I was in Alaska you gave them to the bartender when you came in

Mixing guns and drunks sure seems stupid... but I'm fine with letting the rednecks and the right wingers have their social experiment.

I'm totally open to the possibility of a decrease in gun-related deaths... but if I had to wager, the big winner here will be Darwinism.

Soooo if I lived in AZ/TN, I could legally pack heat while getting shitfaced drunk...

OOOOKay....

#14 | Posted by Zarathustra at 2009-07-15 07:09 PM | Reply | Flag

Noooooooooo

The law in Tennessee is written so that licensed gun owners can enter places selling alcohol.

You want a beer with your enchilladas? How about a glass of wine with you sea bass?

This is a natural extension of the conceal-carry law: People who show the discipline and responsibility to get a handgun license are most likely to be mature enough to drink responsibly.

It's the Lefty Nanny State pantpissers who are upset about this. To normal Americans this is what government is supposed to do: extend and protect our freedoms. Bar and restaurant owners also have the freedom to post a sign forbiding handguns.

A related story about a responsible person with a conceal-carry permit:

I'm totally open to the possibility of a decrease in gun-related deaths... but if I had to wager, the big winner here will be Darwinism.

#29 | Posted by snoofy at 2009-07-15 09:54 PM | Reply | Flag

Do you have a PayPal account? I'll take that wager, because you are a fool.

Violent crime goes down, significantly, after conceal-carry laws are passed. It's because these permits inject a lot of uncertainty into the minds of criminals.

It's a lot easier to commit a crime if you are certain that you are the only person with a gun. But suddenly, anyone around you may be locked and loaded.

"The statistics already indicate a predictable correlation:"

What a maroon. The stats you cite have NOTHING to do with conceal-carry permits. In fact, higher crime rates are often a motivation for conceal-carry: People know the police cannot protect them and so demand the right to defend themselves.

#3 | Posted by frankf55 - you assume everybody who goes to bars are going to get numb. trust me, there are plenty of sober people in bars...mostly the ones with the guns.

What makes you think a law abiding, licensed gun owner would put himself into that position? The type of person who'd use a gun in a bar fight won't care if it's legal to carry it there.

The kind of person who would use a gun in a bar fight? That category gets a lot larger when you throw enough booze in the mix. Bars are places where people tend to gather in large numbers, and for the most part bar patrons' judgement is impaired to some degree. Not the place where you need any kind of weapons.

I take that back - the only people who need guns in a bar are the people that work there.

Guns in bars and restaurants? Are they also being allowed in legislative chambers?

States Allow Weapons in Bras?

What are they thinking; someone could lose finger or even a palm! Under the wrong circumstances this could be very dangerous.

Haven't they seen the Madame Gaga You Tube of her exploding bra. Now they want ballistic brassieres?

First they already have right to have bare arms and now this. Where are they going to keep the ammo?

The AZ law says a concealed permit holder packing in a bar can't drink PERIOD, despite what the foaming at the mouth leftists here are trying portray.

"Where are they going to keep the ammo?"

Tubular magazine?

I would never drink while carrying. It's just stupid.

"Are they also being allowed in legislative chambers?"

Posted by Fedupwithpols at 2009-07-15 11:03 PM

A CHL can carry in the Texas Capitol Building but not in the Senate or House chambers.

The AZ law says a concealed permit holder packing in a bar can't drink PERIOD, despite what the foaming at the mouth leftists here are trying portray.

Some people seem to think that there is no place that is better off without guns - "responsible" people should be allowed to take guns anywhere because irresponsible people will anyway. Responsible people don't take guns to certain places. There's simply no reason or the risks simply outweigh the benefits. Instead of using the "criminals will break the law anyway" excuse here, excercise a little common sense. There are too many ways for that one to go wrong, and no conceivable benefit. This is just an attempt to push the envelope.

The people "foaming at the mouth" here are the gun-crazed rednecks who take a good idea (concealed carry) and run with it to an obnoxious extreme (guns in bars).

Okay, gun-crazed rednecks is an exaggeration in some cases... but pushing the envelope is a pretty accurate description of this law.

A CHL can carry in the Texas Capitol Building but not in the Senate or House chambers.

I wonder why? If it's ok to carry in bars and other public places, it should be ok to carry in the Senate and House chambers. Could it be that the legislators are afraid of being shot? What about the concerns of people in bars and other public places?

"If it's ok to carry in bars and other public places, it should be ok to carry in the Senate and House chambers."

You've noticed that screaming hypocrisy too?

"What about the concerns of people in bars and other public places?"

Meh. If they want a safe environment, let 'em run for Congress.
~Congress

"Because it's the national RIFLE association. Any other stupid questions?"

So the NRA only supports the right to bear rifles? They don't say anything about hand guns? They do however bill themselves as defenders of the 2nd amendment right to bear ARMS...not rifles. I know it's very complicated JPW. You better put your gun down if your drinking.

"This is a natural extension of the conceal-carry law: People who show the discipline and responsibility to get a handgun license are most likely to be mature enough to drink responsibly."

That's funny!!

That category gets a lot larger when you throw enough booze in the mix. Bars are places where people tend to gather in large numbers, and for the most part bar patrons' judgement is impaired to some degree. Not the place where you need any kind of weapons.

Again, you're looking at this completely black and white and assuming people will ALWAYS carry now because they can.

I know it's anecdotal and therefore doesn't mean shit, but I guarantee you every CHL holder I know would NOT carry if there's any chance of them drinking and this case wouldn't be an exception.

That's funny!!

#45 | Posted by AndyB62

Why?

They do however bill themselves as defenders of the 2nd amendment right to bear ARMS...not rifles. I know it's very complicated JPW.

Indeed, it is. Write them a letter and point out the flaw in their position.

You better put your gun down if your drinking.

Now where's the fun in that?

Why make it any easier for someone to have a gun on them while they're drunk? I know a few handgun owners who don't want to be anywhere near their gun while drinking because they know there's a better chance they'll do something stupid. While I typically side with those seeking the right to bear arms, I also side with reasonable restrictions on that right, and to me, this ain't reasonable.

Again, you're looking at this completely black and white and assuming people will ALWAYS carry now because they can.

I'm just running through a cost/benefit in my head, and I don't see many circumstances under which a bar patron, however sober that person might be, would benefit by carrying. It seems like more of a liability. If it were me, I would not carry a weapon into a bar even if I were the DD. And I don't go to the kinds of bars where I would want to be carrying.

So to the heart of the matter - why is this law even necessary? How does society or an individual benefit in this situation?

I guarantee you every CHL holder I know would NOT carry if there's any chance of them drinking

I agree, the gun owners I know are extremely cautious and responsible people when it comes to their firearms. I also know many are not. I will say, the ER would be a lonely place and the Darwin Awards website would be an empty corner of the internet if it weren't for alcohol and firearms coming together.

On another note, what is the deal with the ATF. They've got booze, guns, and smokables. Why do they get to be in charge of all of the fun while the FDA only gets to regulate the acceptable level of rodent carcasses in your cheerios?

"I'm just running through a cost/benefit in my head, and I don't see many circumstances under which a bar patron, however sober that person might be, would benefit by carrying. "

Are you kidding? All those drunks are packin'!

It's the perfect circular logic.

I'm just running through a cost/benefit in my head, and I don't see many circumstances under which a bar patron, however sober that person might be, would benefit by carrying.

That's as irrelevent as asking why anyone needs an "assualt" rifle. Based on the second ammendment, a gun owner shouldn't have to state a reason to own/carry a legal weapon, anyone seeking to limit that right needs to state a legitimate reason. The mixing guns and alcohol is a legitimate reason, hence the reason most states ban guns in bars.

It seems like more of a liability. If it were me, I would not carry a weapon into a bar even if I were the DD. And I don't go to the kinds of bars where I would want to be carrying.

And I'm sure most gun owners feel the same way, hence why I doubt many CHL holders will carry in bars now that this law is passed.

So to the heart of the matter - why is this law even necessary? How does society or an individual benefit in this situation?

I agree completely.

Everything I've posted so far on this topic is more against the idea that this law will cause a dramatic increase in gun crimes by legal gun owners. It simply won't happen as this law removes a restriction on the people we don't have to worry about.

There goes the bar fights during a full moon.

Zombie: This law places law-abiding citizens in a position where they will be armed with a 9mm instead of their fists or a pool cue while intoxicated.
You can't tell me that this is a good idea.

law abiding, well, anyway... this blues guitar slinger will definitely think two or three times before playing Crossfire again.

i ain't carrying no gun and do not ever intend to, and frankly i've been in the wildest of places... the ante just went WAY the fuck up.

wow, how stupid can these ppl be. like i said in some other thread, they just want us all dead, i guess.
===

yeah, really, "there goes the bar fights."

ante = the entrance ante.

I am all for gun rights but alcohol and guns don't mix.

Don't get me wrong, as there's few things on earth more fun than getting Baron von Shithausen and driving around the ranch at night with a spotlight in a '72 Bronco with your buddies and blasting the shit out of javelinas and jackrabbits. Guns and alcohol certainly have their place.

#24 | POSTED BY JAK_SE_MAO

Killing animals for joy, saddening.

Everything I've posted so far on this topic is more against the idea that this law will cause a dramatic increase in gun crimes by legal gun owners. It simply won't happen as this law removes a restriction on the people we don't have to worry about.
#52 | POSTED BY JPW

So? They go into the bar for a reason. And that is drinking. You are telling us that this wonderful class of legal gun owners are not behaving differently after some drinks?

They go into the bar for a reason. And that is drinking.

What if they go to a pub for food and friends without drinking? Or a restaurant? There are times when one can be in a bar and not drinking.

You are telling us that this wonderful class of legal gun owners are not behaving differently after some drinks?

No, it's the behavior before hand, dipshit. If they're going to drink, a legal gun owner will probably not have their weapon with them.

People who has gone through the trouble to get a CHL is not, let me say it again, ARE NOT the people you have to worry about, yet those are the people who are disproportionately affected by gun regulations.

Should be "CHL ARE not..."

Wow.

Did you just compare the right to carry a concealed firearm with the right to carry said firearm along with you on a tequila bender?

Remember... guns don't kill people. Drunk idiots kill people. There's no sense in enabling them.

No, silly. I said "that's what people said about concealed carry". If you would care to infer my meaning, it would read something like this.

"Don't assume the worst because you're a limp-wristed, pinko commie nancy boy who doesn't like guns, Frank."

That doesn't mean that an innocent person or people aren't going to be shot because of this stupid shit, but it also doesn't mean that drunks are going to go on a rampage and wipe out entire bars full of people.

I'll agree with any reasonable person that says a bar is not a place to be packing heat, but the people of these states see it differently. That's what matters more than my opinion on the subject. Hopefully, some wise-ass won't get the idea to get this through our state house. Either way, I haven't been in a bar in 10 years.

"This is a natural extension of the conceal-carry law: People who show the discipline and responsibility to get a handgun license are most likely to be mature enough to drink responsibly."

That's funny!!

#45 | Posted by AndyB62"

"Why?
#47 | Posted by TXLIBERTARIAN "

who's checkin' the gun licenses at a bar? THE BARTENDER? they're lucky if they get id for age
and what do they do when they find a guy with a gun but no license? KICK 'EM OUT???
if you don't see the humor in this, you ain't had enough to drink yet

Besides the issue of being allowed to carry in bars now, Arizona also passed legistration that you can carry on private property. For example, if someone came over and parked in my driveway with a weapon under law I can't ask him leave because I don't want a gun on my property. I am not against guns, but I have a federal felony conviction from years ago and I can't be near guns. Now, I can go to bars, etc, and they are all around. Friends or whatever can stop by my home bringing their guns. The other day I was at home for a business meeting and brought my son along. The owner was carrying and tossed his Glock on the kitchen counter like it was his car keys. I told my son to stay away from it, but isn't that careless for a gun owner to do? These are the some of the people that will be carrying in bars. Kind of scary.

the bar fight may be history are you going to smack somebody that just might put a cap in your ass.

I'm glad I don't go to bars. Last place I would want to be is sitting on a stool next to someone whose emotional state I know nothibg about, under the influence of a depressant, who is packing a gun.

"The owner was carrying and tossed his Glock on the kitchen counter like it was his car keys. I told my son to stay away from it, but isn't that careless for a gun owner to do? "

I take it that was the business owner in your house?
In Texas that's illegal.
The operative word here is C O N C E A L E D.

We have enough bar shootings that the knowledge a CHL may be there will likely tone things down as it has elsewhere.

(Hint: Just because it's illegal for an unlicensed person to carry in or out of a bar doesn't stop the criminals.)

There are plenty of people in bars who fit your description, Lisa. They're called criminals.

I don't see many circumstances under which a bar patron, however sober that person might be, would benefit by carrying.

Well, suppose your sitting in the bar at your swim club knocking back a few Jack-and-cokes when all of a sudden there is some kind of a ruckus out by the main pool...

I understand what you said Zat but not all people who are emotionally unstable are criminals.

Could be the guy I would be sitting next to has just had his wife walk out on him taking his children with her. He could be distraught, getting more depressed by drinking, thinking he,s got nothing else to live for and decides to pull out his gun taking half the bar with him.

Know what I mean?

"Could be the guy I would be sitting next to has just had his wife walk out on him taking his children with her. He could be distraught, getting more depressed by drinking, thinking he,s got nothing else to live for and decides to pull out his gun taking half the bar with him."

I really, really, really, really hate it when people do that.

It gives a whole new meaning to "doing shots".

"Know what I mean?"

Posted by Lisa at 2009-07-16 08:21 AM

Yeah, you missed the point entirely.

I did??

Sorry!

So,

Enough with the "what if" scenarios. Typical straw man/red herring arguments here. Enough to feed the masses for a week.

Let's just see if there is any significant increase in gun violence in bars. THEN we can say whether or not it made an impact.

For example, if someone came over and parked in my driveway with a weapon under law I can't ask him leave because I don't want a gun on my property.

#63 | Posted by JustinPhx

If someone is on YOUR property and you don't want them there, then you can ask them to leave (for no reason at all). If they won't leave, call the cops.

Daprof,

I understand what you are saying lets wait and see before we start saying gun violence will raise in Bars. But that works for a lot of things I mean really we should legalize pot and wait and see if its a problem. But the bottom line is where have you witnessed the most fights??? For me its been Bars, now add guns to that and it is a recipe for disaster. We dont let people drink and drive because alchol effects decision making and motor skills and with those they are a danger to others. So why would say but carring a gun is ok because you dont need Motor skills or decision making to not be dangerous with one of these. That is the dumbest thing i have heard. We can all agree Drinking and driving doesnt go together, so come on you cant say drinking and guns do. This not a lesson a family should have to learn the hard way because it will be and innocent bistandard that ends up dead. (Pretty hard to aim while drunk)

Could be the guy I would be sitting next to has just had his wife walk out on him taking his children with her. He could be distraught, getting more depressed by drinking, thinking he,s got nothing else to live for and decides to pull out his gun taking half the bar with him.

Know what I mean?

What's to stop him from doing it anyway?

Daprof,

I understand what you are saying lets wait and see before we start saying gun violence will raise in Bars. But that works for a lot of things I mean really we should legalize pot and wait and see if its a problem. But the bottom line is where have you witnessed the most fights??? For me its been Bars, now add guns to that and it is a recipe for disaster. We dont let people drink and drive because alchol effects decision making and motor skills and with those they are a danger to others. So why would say but carring a gun is ok because you dont need Motor skills or decision making to not be dangerous with one of these. That is the dumbest thing i have heard. We can all agree Drinking and driving doesnt go together, so come on you cant say drinking and guns do. This not a lesson a family should have to learn the hard way because it will be and innocent bistandard that ends up dead. (Pretty hard to aim while drunk)

#76 | Posted by Fenderwa41 at 2009-07-16 12:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

Bar fights are usually fist or knife, not gun. Well, and the occasional pool cue. I've seen my share, but not a scientific sampling. And I know for certain that these same people carry guns in bars, even where it is illegal. Yet, the gun never entered the "conflict."

Who is to know that they are, since it is in a pocket or concealed holster?

The difference is that now law abiding citizens in these states are not "guilty" prior to an act by default. It is only when they cross that line that they become guilty. Same with cars. People still drive drunk/impaired all the time. Having a law against it doesn't make it any less a crime.

Secondarily, when did driving drunk/impaired become illegal? Only after we were able to document the problems with drunk drivers/MADD/etc.

We do not have data that says that law abiding citizens carrying their concealed weapons/firearms cause a problem in bars. It was just based on "a feeling" that it was the right thing, not any solid information. The analogy to driving drunk and carrying into a bar fails.

This might not have nearly as much affect in Arizona since I think they already have a 'smoking prohibited in restaurants/bars' statute ;-)!

Point 2, off topic:

There aren't really "illegal drugs" out there. There are "controlled substances" that you must meet a variety of conditions to possess or use. Otherwise, you are illegally possessing/using that substance.

--

States can do what they want. If you don't like it, don't go to any bars in Arizona or Tennessee.

The NRA has far too much political power and clout amongst the yahoos in this country
that think hunting a deer with an AK-47 in your neighbors back yard while the children
swim in the pool ought to be allowed...

Guns allowed into National Parks...terrible idea.
I give it 6 months before someone gets shot and killed in a dispute.

Guns allowed into bars....a worse idea.
I give it 6 minutes before someone gets shot and killed in a dispute.

but hey...we're America and stupid and gosh derned proud of it...

sure glad my son (who is 11) is already smarter than half of the people
that seem to post on this site on a regular basis...
you know the ones, the ones that post like 6 times in 30 minutes
because they either dont have a life or dont have a job..(or BOTH)............(you know who you are)...

"Guns allowed into National Parks...terrible idea.
I give it 6 months before someone gets shot and killed in a dispute."

I've got this story about how I busted a snowmobiler carrying a gun in Yellowstone one winter when I was bartending, but its too long.

"I've got this story about how I busted a snowmobiler carrying a gun in Yellowstone one winter when I was bartending, but its too long."

Fuck that...regale us with stories of Yellowstone In Winter.

Yellowstone In Winter.
#84 | Posted by Danforth

Don't get me started. It will end with me wiping my tears off the keyboard.

Leaving the park was the hardest choice I ever had to make. In many ways I'm still not over it even though its been almost 10 years now.

Now I have to go find a tissue. Thanks.

:*(

Did you go to school in PA?

Daprof,

You remind me a lot of one of my best friends. He believe that sometimes a lot of people might have to die before we can learn anything. Making a reasonable assumption like Guns and Booze dont mix. Isnt something we can know is a bad Idea its something we have to find out. So you must be for Legalizing Pot too correct??? Since when it was Banned there where no studies to prove it was bad for the country(reafer madness and like are Complete BS and i cant imagine meet your level of creditablity). So until we have those real world studies we should legilize it, right???

"Now I have to go find a tissue. "

Sorry. Ever since the bride & I visited two Septembers ago, we've fantasized about going back in winter. Brutal, I know, but from all accounts, VERY worth it.

Did you go to school in PA?
#86 | Posted by 101Chairborne

Partied in PA while in school, but no.

Sorry. Ever since the bride & I visited two Septembers ago, we've fantasized about going back in winter. Brutal, I know, but from all accounts, VERY worth it.
#88 | Posted by Danforth

Absolutely worth it.

I recommend x-country skiing and discourage snowmobiling. If you're going to snowshoe, stay off the x-country ski tracks. Cutting your own trail is what its all about.

I feel like an emotional amputee sometimes, living in NYC. I never see the stars anymore.

How I wish I could convince my wife to be the Doctor at Yellowstone Lake location.

The wine and cheese left will never understand the joy of shots and beers.

You remind me a lot of one of my best friends. He believe that sometimes a lot of people might have to die before we can learn anything. Making a reasonable assumption like Guns and Booze dont mix. Isnt something we can know is a bad Idea its something we have to find out. So you must be for Legalizing Pot too correct??? Since when it was Banned there where no studies to prove it was bad for the country(reafer madness and like are Complete BS and i cant imagine meet your level of creditablity). So until we have those real world studies we should legilize it, right???

#87 | Posted by fenderwa41 at 2009-07-16 01:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

No, fender, you just assume that people are always at a lowest common denominator and because you BELIEVE something to be true, it must be true. I've put several links that disprove all these claims several times.

This same claim of increased violence was given when CCWs became available in Florida. And guess what...it never happened. Why? Because CCW holders are responsible people. They have been fingerprinted. They have had a background check.

I will wait for the hundreds of deaths you predict because people happen to have a gun with them at a bar, in spite of the fact that no evidence, other than an "everyone knows" statement that has no basis in fact.

And yes, I think pot should be decriminalized. I don't use it personally. But then, I think people should be responsible for their own actions, don't you?

I don't understand why the gun has to be concealed. Are these people undercover? I would think that if everyone in a bar can see who is both carrying a gun and shitfaced, then the chances of someone doing something that instigates a shooting decrease quite a bit.

"I don't understand why the gun has to be concealed."

#93 | Posted by Sully at 2009-07-16 09:49 PM | Reply | Flag: At least he admits he missed the point.

Let me distill it to a couple of notions, Sully.

Open carry is a target, just like a badge.

Concealed carry by honest, trained, vetted, licensed folk is a deterrent.

The cute little mid-twenties babe might just drill your forehead if you tried to stick up the restaurant, or FSM forbid, drive your truck through a Luby's and start shooting folks.

Actually it'd be hilarious to see the reactions of the antigun folk if open carry wasn't such a no-no in public places.

"Open carry is a target, just like a badge."

Assuming someone who wants to stick up a bar walks into the place, sees someone with a gun and decides that the few hundred bucks he was planning on stealing is now worth graduating to murder despite the fact that he hasn't committed a crime yet and can just go somewhere else or come back later. Also assuming this same person is confident enough in his own ability to take out the other person that he'll risk his life on it. And that there is only one person carrying in the bar.

"Concealed carry by honest, trained, vetted, licensed folk is a deterrent."

For the reasons I stated I can see how knowing someone else is armed is much more of a deterrent than thinking someone else may be armed.

I find it much more likely that someone could convince himself that nobody else is carrying than I do that someone would want to stick up a place where he can see that other people are armed.

I also think law abiding citizens have a right to know if someone is armed.

He was managing a restaurant with a two table bar in Lafayette, La. when one late night an acquaintance was in the bar flashing a small auto pistol around.

posted by silver ironist

now you're in my neck of the woods....

"I also think law abiding citizens have a right to know if someone is armed."

It's none of your damn business how i choose to exercise my rights.

-- is the latest example of loosening gun laws in a country already renowned for its lax approach to firearms.

Hay doc, I coppied the above but I just made up the shit below. I am learning from you.

Gun violence has been real bad in AZ since they have passed their concealed carry law. Murder had gone up 10 fold and the number of wounded can't be counted. You libs should stay away r you'll get killed by the cross fire.

"Gun violence has been real bad in AZ since they have passed their concealed carry law. Murder had gone up 10 fold and the number of wounded can't be counted. You libs should stay away r you'll get killed by the cross fire."

That's just the same mewling crap spouted by the usual leftists here, on any topic featuring firearms.

No, it's the behavior before hand, dipshit. If they're going to drink, a legal gun owner will probably not have their weapon with them.

#59 | POSTED BY JPW

Ok, I understand, this wonderful class of responsible citizen will only enter the bar after they got rid of the conceiled weapon they normally carry. And therefore you need this new laws.

Amazing.

Hay doc, I coppied the above but I just made up the shit below. I am learning from you.
#100 | Posted by Sniper

You're barely coherent, but I'm glad to hear you may be on the road to recovery from your dishonest practice of using other people's words without attribution in an effort to make your posts sound like they were written by someone who actually has some intelligence. As for making up shit, don't worry: you're still well and truly mired in that sty.

How high will the body count get before they decide to reverse that decision?

"It's none of your damn business how i choose to exercise my rights."

And I'm saying I'm believe others have the right to know if some dimwitted jackass such as yourself is carrying around a dangerous weapon because he doesn't have a dick so they know to avoid you.

You're barely coherent.

#103 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

That is a true statement about yourself. Do you ever have anything to say without putting down the person you disagree with? I do realize that you know everything and any conservative is stoopid but you could try to be a little more polite for a change. You act like a bitter old man.

"Do you ever have anything to say without putting down the person you disagree with?
#106 | Posted by Sniper"

Quite frequently, actually. But I make an exception in your case. And I'll tell you why, Snoops: You are one of the most poorly informed people who post on the DR; you frequently reproduce unsubtantiated crap you pick up from the internet (i.e. lies) and seldom, if ever, acknowledge they're fabrications even after that's been repeatedly demonstrated to you; you have a yellow streak a mile wide running down your back, often running off when your bullshit is challenged; and you steal other people's words (plagiarism) in an attempt to make your otherwise incoherent posts sound as if they were written by someone more intelligent and better informed than yourself.

Ultimately, the person who puts you down, Snoops, is you. Calling attention to it simply involves making an observation about an all too obvious reality.

By the way, you ever come up with that videotape of Kerry on 9/11 that you said existed? Or found a reputable physical anthropologist who agrees with you that Kennewick Man was "a white man"? Those are just two examples of you posting crap you're not only unwilling but unable to support.

Now, run along and let the adults go about their business.

Ok, I understand, this wonderful class of responsible citizen will only enter the bar after they got rid of the conceiled (correct spelling: concealed as an FYI) weapon they normally carry. And therefore you need this new laws.

Amazing.

#102 | Posted by fribo at 2009-07-17 02:20 AM | Reply | Flag: M

Actually, we do. Glad you understand. For once.

correct spelling:
#108 | POSTED BY DAPROF

LOL

Ok, I understand, this wonderful class of responsible citizen will only enter the bar after they got rid of the conceiled weapon they normally carry. And therefore you need this new laws.
Amazing.

You really should drop this facetious "wonderful class" shit as statistics show that CHL holders are INCREDIBLY unlikely to commit crime, let alone a crime with the weapon they have licensed.

It's funny too, that in 109 comments no one (myself included) bothered to actually look up the law.

The Star Wars cantina scene should prove that packing a laser pistol is necessary to avoid Jabba The Hut's bounty hunters.

I downloaded that Race To Witch Mountain film - which has a very relevant bar scene. Luckily the entire sheriff's department were thirsty at the same time and arrived at the local tavern to obstruct the NSA crackheads from capturing the alien children for dissection. Bars have the best lighting for exciting shootouts and standoffs.

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Actually it'd be hilarious to see the reactions of the antigun folk if open carry wasn't such a no-no in public places.

#96 | Posted by Gimme_a_Scotch

Open cary is allowed in many western atates and has been ever since they became states.

I have seen people carring a six gun in down town Phoenix amd in many small western towns. Funny thing is, no one cares out west like you lib back easterners do.

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
#112 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2009-07-17 03:15 PM

Remember only about two weeks ago the military were demanding civil war relics be removed from universities, galleries and private ownership to be destroyed.

The new regulation in Oregon forces a psychological evaluation prior to gun ownership. This is a new concept - and far too late to save the lives already lost from loons with deadly weapons.

Although I agree with the notion of less guns, we are not a polite or peaceful species and the weak will always be victimized by amoralists.

But guns mixed with booze always leads to asshat central.

"Remember only about two weeks ago the military were demanding civil war relics be removed from universities, galleries and private ownership to be destroyed."

[CITATION NEEDED]

Now, run along and let the adults go about their business.

#107 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

I'll be right behind you ace.

"Remember only about two weeks ago the military were demanding civil war relics be removed from universities, galleries and private ownership to be destroyed."

[CITATION NEEDED]
#115 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2009-07-17 04:30 PM

"And I'm saying I'm believe others have the right to know if some dimwitted jackass such as yourself is carrying around a dangerous weapon because he doesn't have a dick so they know to avoid you."

#105 | Posted by Sully at 2009-07-17 10:06 AM | Reply | Flag pot, kettle, black

"And I'm saying I'm believe..."

I'M the dimwitted jackass?

I'll be right behind you ace.
#116 | Posted by Sniper

As usual, somebody else has to show you the way.