Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Wednesday, July 15, 2009

Sarah Palin: I am deeply concerned about President Obama's cap-and-trade energy plan, and I believe it is an enormous threat to our economy. It would undermine our recovery over the short term and would inflict permanent damage.

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MURPHY

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And Kerry claims there is a "crisis" in climate change.

Based on what?

------


Good article by Palin.


Good article by Palin.


Nice to see she now has time to do important things.

Being Governor of Alaska was just so limiting.

Where are all the pants-droppers whining about "NOT ANOTHER PALIN THREAD"?????

"Good article by Palin."

I'll bet she quit half-way through and had someone else finish it for her.

UGH...not another Palin thread??!!

How"s that? :)

I'll bet she quit half-way through and had someone else finish it for her.

#4 | Posted by LetUsPrey

I am OUTRAGED that you would make such a comment attacking my integrity and demeaning my wonderful family. Your behavior is OUTRAGEOUS and I demand an apology. Otherwise 10's of my supporters will demand your job!

- Sarah! Palin

Palin is right on with the issue of cap and tax con going on in DC.

Zap--you have missed my posts on her 'resignation'.

I understand it--but she should have remained in office.

Zap--why don't you shut up with the name calling to me.

Sarah's ghost writer is better than Obama's ghost writer

Vernon-
Obama actually wrote his books, and didn't have a ghost-writer. Maybe in twelve years of teaching constitutional law and graduating from Harvard with honors and editing the Harvard Law Reiew, etc., Obama had to write a sentence or two.

In contrast, Sarah Palin comes across as an angry tweener when she speaks/writes, not that you would notice.

In contrast, Sarah Palin comes across as an angry tweener when she speaks/writes, not that you would notice.

#14 | Posted by BetelG at 2009-07-15 01:26 AM |

Nah. When the hillbilly speaks on tv Vermy is busy waxing on and waxing off.

I think this is about to get interesting, or could, if Vernon had the balls to back his bullshit:

Vernon -
re: Sarah's ghost writer is better than Obama's ghost writer

#13 | Posted by vernon at 2009-07-15 01:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

According to you, Vern, who is "Obama's ghost writer"

?

n contrast, Sarah Palin comes across as an angry tweener when she speaks/writes, not that you would notice.

#14 | Posted by BetelG

How could he notice?
He's too busy. He has 2 jobs.


In one-he's an angry pre-preschooler.


In the other-Manufractures broken calculators.

You lefties are so predictable.

Attack the messenger in lieu of addressing the message.

She makes a lot of good points in this article.

she has zero idea what she is talking about

According to you, Vern, who is "Obama's ghost writer"

?

#16 | Posted by BetelG at 2009-07-15 01:33 AM | Reply

Silly BettleJuice. Of course Obama has ghost writers. Of course Sarah has ghost writers.

You have no fucking clue how the world works.

What do you call the 'speechwriter' of a politician? Same job, (slightly) different title. Obama tells his speechwriters what he wants to say, and they craft the words that come out of his teleprompter.

I am a writer, and have been a ghost writer many times. Wrote many columns and a few books for people with ideas but not the writing skills.

My favorite was writing speeches for corporate executives -- the CEO of Northwest Airlines needs 8 minutes for the Detroit Rotary Club. Stuff like that.

The whole point of a speechwriter is to take someone's ideas and put them into words that communicate. Writing is a talent that is honed over time; it's a skill that I sell for money.

In your case, just imagine you are at a friend's house, and he asks you to give him an enema.

"Silly BettleJuice. Of course Obama has ghost writers."

Oh c'mon now. You know and I know that Obama sits down in the Oval Office late and night and constructs every one of those speeches he makes. Then he rehearses them in the wee hours so that they will make tingles go up peoples' legs while some of the folks will faint. The very idea that someone else writes those wonderful speeches is anathema..

Good article by Palin.

#1 | Posted by MURPHY

That reads like it was written by a 10th grader.


Attack the messenger in lieu of addressing the message.

She makes a lot of good points in this article.

#18 | Posted by JeffJ

I would love to see what they are. I'm still looking for a fact or statistic in that thing...
I guess hard facts like...
Westerners literally sit on mountains of oil and gas,
are just too succinct to argue with.

I wish she'd go the fuck away.

I still haven't heard an explanation of why we can't increase our standards and regulations to combat environmental problems (cap), in lieu of creating a financial device (trade) to put more money out of our pockets and into those of rich fucks.

what business would hire anyone now not knowing what the cost of all this horseshit coming out of washington,not one policy from obama to give anyone reason to hire anyone.

What part of "resigning" did she not understand? She is in the headlines now more than before.

I give credit to Palin for writing this, but I disagree with her conclusions. Cap and trade will be good economically in the long run for this country, and good environmentally. The countries that make their energy greener will be best able to cope with the 21st century. Climate change is making this stuff unavoidable. Changes have to happen.

I didn't really know yet how I felt about "cap and trade." I was planning on having to research it. Now I won't have to. If Palin is criticizing Obama for it, Obama is probably on the right track with it.

That's reicht, Sarah Barricuder!!!! We don't be needing no kinds of caps and trading. We needs us more oil and gasoline and we needs to DRILL THE BABY DRILL!!!! Them fancey hi-falluting windmills and sunpowered thangs ain't nothing but a sochallest conspiracey. We just needs to do more DRILL THE BABY DRILL and gets us more oils from the USA USA USA. Ain't no kinds of REAL AMERICANS needs nothing buts oil and nuculear powers. And y'all don't be talking on Sarah Barricuder Palinator ain't a been righting that their article on them genius talking pointing to them facts. Sarah dones got her a big ole brain and she be righting it all down. This just be the tip of the icebergs that ain't melting no way anyhow fer Sarah to be using her educumucation and fancy learning skills in Communicationsizing. That be reicht this just be the beginings fer Sarah to make her way to the preserdenting in the 2000 and 12!!! USA USA USA!!! COMMUNERCATE SARAH COMMUNERCATE!!! DRILL THE BABY DRILL!!! SUN POWER AND WINDS POWER IS FOR HOMOS AND SOCHALLESTS!!!! WHITE POWER TO THE TEE PARTAYS!!!!

I'll bet she quit half-way through and had someone else finish it for her.

#4 | Posted by LetUsPrey at 2009-07-14 10:38 PM | Reply


okay fair point......and its ALMOST funny...ha ha

rcade........good economically??

are you serious?
have you seen details of job loss and energy cost spikes....when a company needs more credits they will buy from someone who has some left..
who will make that up??? some ceo???? I think it will be you and me.......

and when they can so little else with more taxes going up....solution??? easy ...move somewhere where corporate tax rate is something less than the highest in the world...or in the top three anyway..

HEY...if we secceed, we will take all those refinaries.........there is always room for one more on the ship channel..

environment..studies are showing it will make little IF ANY impact since CHINA, INDIA, mexico and several other countries are saying...UH no thanks

so if the industry along the texas coast is BLEEDING from the program and along the upper mexican coast they are pollutting even more with help from american industry that left..
where is the net gain in the environment
and YEAH YEAH I Know...set a good example...will dry up but at least..hey we set a good example...
now "fill out that welfare form".....

OK, who really believes that "the author, a Republican, is governor of Alaska"? Sarah Palin wrote this? I call bullshit. I'd be surprised if she's even read it.



What part of "resigning" did she not understand? She is in the headlines now more than before.

#26 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-07-15 11:01 AM


uh I realize that CNN may have not told you or you didnt hear info about this from carville or soros or one of those other libs who tell your side what to think, but she never said she was retiring from public life all together....

hell0?????

does that help ?? LOL

I'd be surprised if she's even read it.



#31 | Posted by quo_vadis at 2009-07-15 11:16 AM | Reply |


NO NO NO

thats only congress that doesnt read shit...

I realize that CNN may have not told you or you didnt hear info about this from carville or soros or one of those other libs who tell your side what to think

Um, what? I don't even have cable anymore. I took my computer and hooked it to my tv and I live off of Hulu and Netflix now.

Whether Palin wrote it isn't particularly relevant. Politicians deliver speeches written by their staff too.

Cap and trade will be good economically by making it less profitable to pollute. Non-polluting industries will be more profitable, and government will be encouraging the switch to greener alternatives.

Polluting industries have a cost to society as a whole. Cap and trade makes the industry bear more of this cost while it chooses to pollute.

AND 'unintended consequences' is at it again

before we destroy industy with this

and by the way...as energy is destroyed...who MAKES MONEY??

al gores PERSONAL wealth has gone up
FIVE THOUSAND PER CENT since starting his crusade

THATS 5,000 %.....

and GE is kissing dem ass every day..


ANYWAY...reports out of MASS....health care plan is blueprint for national....

UH>..one moment please..

RATIONING
looking for MASSIVE TAX Increase
AND even IF romney supported it..I dont care.

MASS leg has talked about CUTTING people from coverage......


INfo above from laura ingraham.....whose opinion I agree with and facts I believe

MY point....health care AND cap and tax......
democrat boondoogles that will kill us and ALL BECAUSE DEMS HAVE TO PAYBACK POLITICAL DEBT...

Right now oil is cheap so many people revert to thinking that we can just keep using it for cheap energy. As time goes on it will get more and more expensive. If our economy has used cap and trade to bring about significant changes in evergy production we will be in a much better position to prosper in the future than economies that just continue on with oil and coal. It isn't really surprising that the Gov. of Alaska would be against anything that might eventually decrease our consumption of oil considering that is their largest industry.

The bottom line of cap and tax is that it makes it harder for US businesses to compete. I'd have to imagine that if US businesses can't operate here, they'd be willing to send all of those jobs over to India, Mexico, or China. This will hurt like hell when it comes to employment in the US.

All of the stimulus money in the world won't stimulate this economy with bad ideas like this sabotaging it.

The poor in this country can't afford heating and cooling now we're going to make sure they can never afford it. Tell me again how Obama is for the little guy? Using your definitions, Jimmy Carter was the milestone Obama is aiming to outdo in terms of unemployment and the misery index.

Like I said back during the elections. Bad change is still change. Sarah Palin's piece is dead on! Most of you hate her so much that you refuse to acknowledge she's making valid points. That's fine, keep spouting your bullshit and in 3 1/2 years your wallet will feel like you just got raped! You will have been raped by the dancing bear, Al Gore and his cronies, who all screwed you for personal gain not to fix the fucking environment. Make no mistake cap and tax was NEVER about the environment.

Lonnie

Cap and trade will be good economically by making it less profitable to pollute. Non-polluting industries will be more profitable, and government will be encouraging the switch to greener alternatives.

Polluting industries have a cost to society as a whole. Cap and trade makes the industry bear more of this cost while it chooses to pollute.

#35 | Posted by rcade at 2009-07-15 11:21 AM

Why give them the option to "choose to pollute" at all? Why not just mandate that they adhere to higher standards? Why the trading mechanism?

Cap and trade will be good economically by making it less profitable to pollute. Non-polluting industries will be more profitable, and government will be encouraging the switch to greener alternatives.


Polluting industries have a cost to society as a whole. Cap and trade makes the industry bear more of this cost while it chooses to pollute.

#35 | Posted by rcade at 2009-07-15 11:21 AM | Reply


while reading this, I kept thinking of the score to "pollyanna"

please...make it less profitable to pollute????

do you REALY think they will polute less? I think not........

But, but Obama says it's GOOD!

mcclintock.house.gov

It isn't really surprising that the Gov. of Alaska would be against anything that might eventually decrease our consumption of oil considering that is their largest industry.

#37 | Posted by danni at 2009-07-15 11:23 AM | Reply


sure and just like around here...energy industry pays a lot of bills so AS RCADE Said....will help economically...yeah thousands out of jobs and THEN there will be a lot of money spent towards al gore and democrat corps like GE and the like...


and by the way....T boone Pickens is getting out of a large portion of the texas wind business..
NOT profitable.............

Looks like Ms. Abadon's switched on the computers at the Wildorado Chile Trough, Rendering Plant & Public Libarry.

HERE's what it's all about. See the links at the end too.

www.climatedepot.com

"do you REALY think they will polute less? I think not........"

Government regulations certainly cleaned up the air in S. California. Most of our rivers and lakes are cleaner today than a decade ago. Just because Republicans don't like regulations doesn't mean they don't work.

Cap and trade will be good economically by making it less profitable to pollute. Non-polluting industries will be more profitable, and government will be encouraging the switch to greener alternatives.


Polluting industries have a cost to society as a whole. Cap and trade makes the industry bear more of this cost while it chooses to pollute.

#35 | Posted by rcade


Rcade--they will pass the costs onto the consumers.

The other countries like China and India--are not signing onto to this con job.

And if you are calling for a trade war with other countries--the US will lose again.

The people set to make money off this scam are Al Whore, Goldman Sachs and Pelosi along with Pickens.

The people will be the losers paying higher costs for everything--including the poor and middle class.

Government regulations certainly cleaned up the air in S. California. Most of our rivers and lakes are cleaner today than a decade ago. Just because Republicans don't like regulations doesn't mean they don't work.

#45 | Posted by danni at 2009-07-15 11:40 AM

Apples and oranges. Regulations "capping" emissions isn't the same as cap and trade, where governments can issue carbon credits in excess of emissions, companies who inherently don't pollute profit without effort by selling to companies who want to relax their standards on pollution. The "trade" part of the equation is bull shit and has nothing to do with protecting the environment.

ALL RIGHT DANNI

so how is that CALIFORNIA economy going for them these days......

HEy I guess with all that clean air they can teach kids OUTside since they wont have any money to keep the lights on........

AH BUT gentlemen and LADIES..

AN OLD FRIEND has weighed in on this..


as the site calls it.

LONGFACE talks about palin's op ed


politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com

Call it Kerry vs. Palin, Round 2.

The Race to Obscurity

MURPH...GOLDMAN SACHS?????

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

you mean the company that has one of its board members....the TARP czar???

NOOOOOOOOOOOO what makes you think they will make money?

and by the way DANNI>...report on oriely last night

here is the amount of federal taxes that goldman sachs paid on thier TEN BILLION dollar profit

$O.OO

Kerry vs. Palin, Round 2.

#50 | Posted by kanrei at 2009-07-15 11:46 AM

A battle of wits between unarmed opponents.

YEs YES I KNOW...capital gains and a couple of others but AGAIN>...federal tax on that??
let me write that again

$O.OO


murph.....again..report from pbs local program
t boone is getting out of large portion of wind business.......why?? HIGH COSTS..........as in NOT profitable

This whole three-ring circus of global warming, Cap and Trade and related scams are pure unmitigated bullshit that has been tried before. The difference now is that we have a bona fide socialist administration in power.


"The leading experts predict that we have less than 10 years to make dramatic changes in our global warming pollution lest we lose our ability to ever recover from this environmental crisis," Gore stated. But the former Vice President, who has been warning of a 10-year "tipping point" for several years now, appears to be unaware that the United Nations already started the 10-year countdown -- in 1989!

According to July 5, 1989, article in the Miami Herald, the then-director of the New York office of the United Nations Environment Program (UNEP), Noel Brown, warned of a "10-year window of opportunity to solve" global warming. According to the 1989 article, "A senior U.N. environmental official says entire nations could be wiped off the face of the Earth by rising sea levels if the global warming trend is not reversed by the year 2000. Coastal flooding and crop failures would create an exodus of eco-refugees,' threatening political chaos."

epw.senate.gov

Who is she parroting this from? You know this woman can't conceive of anything by herself (except retarded kids). I'm sure the Palin lovers will think she's brilliant, but in reality, not an iota of this is her own thought. Furthermore, she probably doesn't understand a bit of it.

AH GOOD STUFF JEST....

HOWEVER...we also should go back and read stuff like orwell...

it seems that he got the "world" correct..he just missed the DATE by about 20 years.

ONE EXAMPLE????

the leader on tv all the time...well???????????


Who is she parroting this from? You know this woman can't conceive of anything by herself (except retarded kids). I'm sure the Palin lovers will think she's brilliant, but in reality, not an iota of this is her own thought. Furthermore, she probably doesn't understand a bit of it.

#55 | Posted by unklegwar at 2009


did you have even a SMALL thought of telling us where she is wrong instead of giving the old bullshit about how stupid she is...AND of course by that you mean that we are stupid as well??

well...even a sliver of a thought to actually debate her points and accusations????

Doing anything requires energy. Taxing energy will hurt poor people and small businesses, eliminating millions of jobs and creating more dependency...then again, that's what our Fuhrer is after....unfortunately, it won't pass....

Unklegwar,

Palin may not have been the right choice for a VP pick, and has probably peaked in terms of what she'll do politically.

Having said that, my guess is that she's accomplished a shitload more in life than you ever will, and is probably a lot smarter than you. You go ahead and kid yourself that this isn't true, but I think it probably is.

What cracks me up the most about you liberal types is the constant dumping on her. If she's really that stupid and off base, why all the attention? I think she scares you guys. I think that's funny.

wont pass.

I hope you are right.......but DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE obama AND RHOM"S powere and control over those dems who have this in their power to stop..
dont EVER underestimate a CHICAGO crook's power to make them.........."an offer they cant refuse"

I think she scares you guys. I think that's funny.

#59 | Posted by somoco at 2009-07-15 12:04 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e


WITHOUT A DOUBT.........


and this weeks newsweek...according to oreilly has an articla in it that explains her attraction to us and its pretty simple actually and sounds just like liberal fucks here.

we are just too stupid to believe anyone else..

WOW....I didnt understand at first but now that the WONDERFULLY non biased JOURNALISTIC INTEGRITY newsweek has TOLD me this....well shit fellers..I can get back to the river with my banjo and look for another cousin to fuck.........

What ever part of this speech was hers makes little difference. Whoever it was echos the thoughts of many. Can we really afford to place a bigger stranglehold on our economy? We make very few tangible products in the US as it is. I don't think people realize how quickly things could go bad. If the cost of doing business outweighs the profit there will be no incentive. I don't care where you live. If trucks stop delivering fuel, groceries of other products to your local store in about two weeks the average family will go hungry. Everything in our economy is connected. For those of you who claim that this will only hurt the rich and the corporations, your delusional.

"Translation: McAnkles doesn't want to speak of Sarah quitting her day job it makes her sound like such a loser..."

Why should that be the focus of the conversation? Are you incapable of defending cap and trade? Since that was the point of the article, why are you blaming anyone for not following along while you sidetrack the debate?

"Cap and trade will be good economically by making it less profitable to pollute."

Where is the connection between making it less profitable to pollute and being "good economically?" Making something less profitable means the cost of that thing needs to go up for it to continue being worth it to produce that thing. Energy companies are some of our largest polluters. Enjoy your energy bill if this piece of shit passes the senate.

ff for Tinyelvis

Why give them the option to "choose to pollute" at all? Why not just mandate that they adhere to higher standards? Why the trading mechanism?

If you're trying to reduce pollution to a desired level, you can achieve it through cap and trade just as well as through mandates. But cap and trade gives polluters more flexibility to get down to the level.

#62 STIRSUMUP
What ever part of this speech was hers makes little difference. Whoever it was echos the thoughts of many. Can we really afford to place a bigger stranglehold on our economy? We make very few tangible products in the US as it is. I don't think people realize how quickly things could go bad. If the cost of doing business outweighs the profit there will be no incentive. I don't care where you live. If trucks stop delivering fuel, groceries of other products to your local store in about two weeks the average family will go hungry. Everything in our economy is connected. For those of you who claim that this will only hurt the rich and the corporations, your delusional.

Wow, sometimes sense does ripple through this board!

Salaryman,

Tinyelvis was funny the first time now he is just trite.

Whoever said it won't pass. I wish that were true but then I read that Goldman is already in position to start trading carbon credits and I know that it will pass.

Ah well $4 dollar gas was fun we should do it again soon, heck why don't we aim for 5 bucks a gallon.

Why is it that some people do not understand that whatever the government does the rich will NOT BE HURT they are either already in a position to take advantage and make money off a new law or they will pass the cost down the line either way they comeout smelling like roses.

Even stupid libs know that Palin is right on crap and tax. Their usual response though is to attack her kids.

If you're trying to reduce pollution to a desired level, you can achieve it through cap and trade just as well as through mandates. But cap and trade gives polluters more flexibility to get down to the level.

#66 | Posted by rcade at 2009-07-15 12:25 PM

What makes you think allowing billions of tons of offsets for profit will achieve reduction in pollution "just as well" as a mandate?

If true that "Americans only respond to a crisis" we're in for a hell of a response-perhaps a generational mother of all responses. What all these progressives, drunk with power for now, ignore is the mass of voters slowly getting a reality check on all these utopian hogwash. Even as the democrats/progressives discovered the unchecked power of borrowing and printing of money, the electorate is getting nauseous from all that change. There is no precedent to this destruction on such a scale and so quickly in the history of mankind. It is mind boggling that it even lasted for nearly 7 months and it ain't over yet. So if Palin can slow it down-more power to her!

"and by the way....T boone Pickens is getting out of a large portion of the texas wind business..
NOT profitable............."

Not true, he got tired of the righties in legislature in Texas preventing him tieing into the existing transmission lines. Local utilities like Atmos, Reliant, and even Grenn Mountain all legislated against his projects in an effort not to cut their price structure for the next ten years. Who losses here? Texans, by paying higher bills. I gues AK doesn't mind those high bills, mine was $500 this last month, my neighbors $600. Makes me very thankful energy prices are in the 50's-60's for the summer strip and not the bushesque 100+ range!!

LM

then I read that Goldman is already in position to start trading carbon credits and I know that it will pass.

#68 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2009-07-15 12:27 PM

Just an innocent bill designed to protect the planet.

CO2 is not polution. It is food for the entire plant kingdom and essential in carbobated beverages.

Who speaks for plants and the Coca Cola Company?

#27 RCADE

What a bunch of feel good nonsense.

1. Cap and trade is so opaque that that it completely unravels Obama's supposed plan for transparency in government. You can either support transparency, or Cap and Trade, but not both.

2. Cap and Trade will do almost nothing to slow down "Global Climate Change". First because the climate has been changing since before there were SUVs and will continue long after; and second because even if there were such a thing as AGW, the meager goals set for this thing would have little to no effect. It's just a way for the government to tax the citizens (and it will be the citizens that end up paying for it) without having to give them anything in return. And if I hear "we need to do something, even if its meager" I'll be forced to explain that by that logic, we should spend billions of tax payer dollars on magic amulets and magnetic bracelets, give them to people without insurance, and call it national health care. It would be just as effective as Cap and Trade would be on the climate, and tax payers would get the same value for their dollar.

3. As for other countries making themselves "greener" tell that to developing nations that don't even have clean water to drink. If burning tires and diesel fuel next to a polar ice cap is the only way for them to stave of dysentery and dehydration we should be the ones lighting the match. Not keeping them in the third world because we now have some moral objection to the same technology that allowed us to become a thriving nation. Dictating this garbage to foreign nations is exactly like sending missionaries to Africa in the name of recruiting more Christians. Except that the climate change religion will get them killed and keep them in mud huts.


#75 | Posted by the_nether at 2009-07-15 12:54 PM | Reply | Flag: so stupid it's not even wrong

#76 | POSTED BY ZATOICHI AT 2009-07-15 12:55 PM | REPLY | FLAG: So confusing it could only be from ZAT

#76 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2009-07-15 12:55 PM | Reply | Flag: must support billions of tons of ghg offsets so Goldman Sachs can profit

mine was $500 this last month, my neighbors $600. Makes me very thankful energy prices are in the 50's-60's for the summer strip and not the bushesque 100+ range!!


LM


YIKES>...looks like you may need to look into your needs ...

and get back to me in a couple of years if this all goes through...and your bill is 90 % or higher........

I didnt hear the parts of the story that you relayed...no one on the show hosted by one lib and one conservative mentioned anything about the legislature...........

BUT WAIT>....WHY is there a problem with the transmission stuff as you wrote???

AGAIN>...........COSTS TOO MUCH........

AND ITS important to the discussion AND political side of this.

where is the parts of any energy bill that would make ue REALLY independent

drilling
nuclear

so is "DRILL BABY DRILL" a thing of the past?????

and those YEARS AND YEARS worth of natural gas and oil just going to sit there for another few years?

All rhetoric, this article. She says nothing that I haven't read in other places, including right here. So she's echoing some thoughts of citizens--great. Oh wow. I'm so impressed. There is nothing new here, and a lot old and irritating.

I agree that this is a BS bill, but not for the reasons she cites. I believe that we can cap emissions, flat out, and we can retool industries and we can take advantage of alternate energies. Drill, Baby, Drill is ultimately untenable and is a horrible environmental choice.

And btw, higher prices do not mean the tax comment was untrue. If there really are hidden taxes in there, she (and any critic) needs to say that and point them out, not just say "so much for the 95%..." I've seen more logical and better explained positions here on DR.

Oh, and btw again, I'm not a Palin hater and I don't think she's stupid. I think she's wrong on many things, but not stupid. Very capable at some things, I expect, and probably downright clever. I still don't want her as any sort of national leader. (I do think she's naive in some respects, and anyone accusing Obama of naivete or unrealistic worldview should be willing to accept the same of Palin). And I can express that without bashing her speech (which I can and have done) or her family (which I won't do and haven't done, except in pointing out the family values and religion conflicts).

In the 14th century the Church of the day was in need of money so it came up with indulgences. Basically, this was a sin forgiveness for-a-fee money collection scheme and was only challenged later by reformist movement as a corruption of the Church. Many reformists and opponents were burned at the stakes for their heresy. At the end the scheme was abolished.

This isn't unlike the cap and trade money scheme presently being concocted by the progressives/democrats in Congress. Like the indulgence scheme in the past this too shall pass, however, the damage will by incalculable. The question is: are we going to burn a few hereticsjust for the fun of it?

Dang, since Palin opposes it, I can no longer oppose it, since everyone knows she's just brainless.

I agree that this is a BS bill, but not for the reasons she cites. I believe that we can cap emissions, flat out, and we can retool industries and we can take advantage of alternate energies. Drill, Baby, Drill is ultimately untenable and is a horrible environmental choice.

#82 | Posted by pragmatist at 2009-07-15 01:25 PM

I share your view on this.

I haven't seen a good defense of the "trade" portion of the argument yet. Saying that ghg trading gives businesses more "flexibility" while we attain some reduction in pollution doesn't address how the government decides how many tons of offsets or allowances they put on the market, and how that just delays cleaning up our environment while simultaneously saddling us with higher costs.

The earth is dieing, we haven't much time! Global Warming is as dire as WWII, so let's create a mechanism that allows businesses to keep polluting while others profit!

If we're a welfare state (nation) we're easier to control! Let them have everything, then when there is no one left to pay - we'll truly be France or England or better yet SPAIN!

The rallying cry for every election from enactment will be, 'They're try to take your ENTITLEMENTS away from you! Vote for me to keep them!'

Someone, somewhere needs to spell it out for the common folk! Take it to the level of, 'If you're making $20,000 and you're paying $210 a month for electricity or natural gas/propane to heat your house, by 2013 you'll be paying $295, and $378 by 2035! To operate your car now is approx $85 a month just for GAS, in 2013 it will be $118, and by 2035 $154. Motor oil will go from $4.50 to $7.35 a quart! These are rough estimates, but probably very close to accurate.

If gas would have been $2.79 at the pump, it will be $3.57 under this plan (Just from the added costs of this Legislation - not demand)! So the next time the market sends gas to over $4.25, it will be to $6.32 instead!

And when your BUDDY tells you, 'Well Europe spends that much NOW!' Tell him, 'Yeah but Europe doesn't have ANY OIL on the Continent, they IMPORT everything, we're self sufficient in Natural Gas but can't use it, coal but 'It's so dirty!, and could reduce our dependence on Foreign OIL by half, saving $300 BILLION dollars a year, AND produce it cleanly with very little environmental damage'

But we must be made to 'PAY', cause we are lemmings and not very intelligent to boot! Socialism doesn't work well, and Communism didn't work AT ALL! Why go there?

The above is the approximate cost JUST from the enactment of these pieces of legislation, not from NORMAL increases due to market variations, ie; it could be far worse!

Get someone, intelligent (not necessarily me), to establish a standard, condition based, break-down chart system to provide an estimate of family costs, for both Health Care and Cap and Trade!

Utilize the amounts of $20K, $35K, $65K $100K, and $250K or something near these amounts and break it down into understandable bites. When we see what is going to happen, we can make a determination to do this or not. I think NOT!

THIS will save the environment!!!

Some environmentalists have criticized the fuel efficiency standards in the "cash for clunkers" provision of the bill, because new cars would only need to get 22 MPG to be considered fuel efficient.[48][49] New SUVs and pickup trucks would only need to get 18 MPG to be considered fuel efficient.[50] Vehicles older than 25 years are not eligible for the program. CNN reported that "One of the biggest criticisms is that it's not very environmentally friendly."[51]
en.wikipedia.org

"The earth is dieing, we haven't much time! Global Warming is as dire as WWII, so let's create a mechanism that allows businesses to keep polluting while others profit!"

Tell all that to India, China, Mexico, Africa.....Saddling Americans with a high taxes and a strained economy won't reduce emissions worldwide ONE IOTA.

Remember too, China, India, and probably Indonesia will not participate in the Climate reduction limitations. Also several KYOTO signators are NOT meeting their goals! (Canada being one of them)

All of this will cause us to lose major market share for our Exports due to the addition of Global Warming add-on costs on American businesses and our inability to compete in a 'FAIR' market, both here and abroad!

All of this when we need Business to step up and foot OUR bills!

This will save Nothing except the ego of the looters who take instead of earn. This is not good for the poor, the rich or the middle class. These people can't make money so they take money.

a blind nut finds a squirrel every now and then.


I suggest reading Taibbi's Rolling Stone article on Goldman Sachs to see why Cap and Trade is another fascist scam.

www.rollingstone.com

For fuck's sake, I am going to be blunt:

CARBON DIOXIDE IS NOT A POLLUTANT!!!!!!


I can't believe we are even talking about this shit.

Every single day more people are having buyers remorse from electing this baffoon. He is systematically dismantling the country with each and every idea he wants pushed thru. By the end of the year his approval rating will be well below 50% and it will be well deserved. Welcome to being a one termer Obama.

For fuck's sake, I am going to be blunt:

CARBON DIOXIDE IS NOT A POLLUTANT!!!!!!


I can't believe we are even talking about this shit.

#92 | Posted by JeffJ at 2009-07-15 02:34 PM

Even if you accept that too much CO2 is bad for the environment, it should be easy to see that the cap and trade program is a bull shit maneuver to line the pockets of the rich. We could combat excessive CO2 with mandates. Instead, "liberals" support weak-kneed measures allowing billions of tons of GHG allowances to facilitate a new trade with Goldman Sachs at the ready to profit. Amazing what haveing a 'D' in the White House will make "liberals" support. The solution to a "global warming crisis" where we MUST do something is hem and haw while businesses are allowed to continue polluting while moving around more money in the form of carbon credits. Or so the O'tards say.

"We could combat excessive CO2 with mandates."

Even if its not excessive, iron fertilization would be better, and its cheap (but that doesn't sell)...
en.wikipedia.org

"By the end of the year his approval rating will be well below 50% and it will be well deserved. Welcome to being a one termer Obama."

Take a look at the comparison between those who "strongly approve" and those who "strongly disapprove."

www.rasmussenreports.com

Why do you suppose the big rush to pass all these crazy bills? They have to cram them down our throats while think they can.


"Voters now trust Republicans more than Democrats on eight out of 10 key electoral issues, including, for the second straight month, the top issue of the economy. They've also narrowed the gap on the remaining two issues, the traditionally Democratic strong suits of health care and education."

www.rasmussenreports.com

We are witnessing the first hint of things to come. Palin bowed out of the governorship (where she might have been held accountable for something) and her entrance into the punditocracy where she can swan around exploiting opportunities to rile righties up during hard times.

Expect more pieces ghost written for Palin.

While I accept that politicians may have a ghost writer for their speeches, she aint one anymore. She's now just a plagerist signing her name to someone else's rant. There's just no way she wrote that - where'e the trailer park folksiness?

Education? What sort of movement has there been on education? Why would that have changed? Is there under-the-radar shit going on? Hell, even my NEA pal who met with Arne Duncan last month didn't mention any big movements--lots of conversation, sure, but why would anyone's opinion on this have changed?

Oh, and at this point, I trust none of them in Congress. Well, a few, but as a whole, no.

You completely missed the point on the transmission lines, it's not the cost tieing into them, it's the reduced consumer costs once more electricity floods the grid.

"so is "DRILL BABY DRILL" a thing of the past?????
and those YEARS AND YEARS worth of natural gas and oil just going to sit there for another few years?"

Fake Jesus I hope so!! This was the dumbest comment the first day it was uttered and it still is for multiple reasons. First being access to market, cost, and demand. Currently demand is so far in the toilet that natural gas prices are getting so low that producers will cap wells and shut-in natural gas. Secondly, I have always advocated sucking up the rest of the worlds resources before our own(true American conservation), kind of like a Waterworld word scenario. Whichever superpower is able to keep it's planes flying and ships sailing will be king shit!! Lastly, your idea only delays dealing with the problem for further down the road, it's not a viable long term solution. Addressing it now will save most likely trillions versus another 30-50 years. So yes, I hope it sits there for quite some time.

LM


For fuck's sake, I am going to be blunt:
CARBON DIOXIDE IS NOT A POLLUTANT!!!!!!

I can't believe we are even talking about this shit.
~JeffJ


For fuck's sake, I am going to be blunt as well:

TOO MUCH OXYGEN WILL KILL YOU!!!!!!

...for a "nowhere woman" she [Palin] surely stirs you over the cliff...so she must be doing something right.

Addressing it now will save most likely trillions versus another 30-50 years.

#99 | Posted by Liberal_Mongrel at 2009-07-15 03:41 PM

Except we aren't really addressing it now either. We're just using it as an excuse to make Goldman Sachs even wealthier. Unless you can tell me how billions in GHG allowances and fuel "efficiency" standards for new cars of 22mpg (twenty fucking 2) will save the global from this urgent, dire matter.

Take a look at the comparison between those who "strongly approve" and those who "strongly disapprove."


Yep. Even worse than it was a week ago. And his disapproval rating has been growing steadily week to week. I'm glad to see it. It shows that at least people are paying some attention.

I can't believe how gullible or ignorant some of you are to actually believe that cap and trade is nothing more than a way to tax us more and make more money. To some people they have greatly succeeded in scaring you into believing the whole global warming hoax. How you can't see that this is all about money and nothing else is beyond me. Several dems have even come right out and said that you can't waste an emergency. And their emergency is global warming and so many of you suckers have bought completely into it. Sad stuff.

And back on the topic of Sarah Palin, look at this from the presidential campaign last year. She was _for_ cap and trade. Well, the campaign was.

seethroughthepodium.org/ issues/climate/ environment_mccain.pdf

So for those who like to point out that the other side (Obama et al) changes positions. Well, fair to say, probably, that all pols do it.

Cap and trade will be good economically by making it less profitable to pollute. Non-polluting industries will be more profitable, and government will be encouraging the switch to greener alternatives.

Polluting industries have a cost to society as a whole. Cap and trade makes the industry bear more of this cost while it chooses to pollute.

#35 | Posted by rcade

Total and complete bullshit. Notice how you don't even think about economics. just bullshit spin doctor dem talking points. The same as saying 'green jobs' are not outsourcebale. The left doesn't even have a fucking clue where all those solar panels are made.

Take y9our head out of Obama's ass and use some commonsense for a change.
IT'S THE LARGEST TAX INCREASE ON ALL AMERICANS OF ALL TIME

2% CO2 kills ya, but hey. Who cares?

Currently demand is so far in the toilet that natural gas prices are getting so low that producers will cap wells and shut-in natural gas.

That's exactly what they're doing. I have a staunchly Republican friend that teaches drilling ops, his clients have dried up. No $$$, no product. Cap and save versus Cap and trade.

www.youtube.com

"IT'S THE LARGEST TAX INCREASE ON ALL AMERICANS OF ALL TIME"

Real dollars, or nominal dollars?

2 of warren Buffets executives at Mid America energy call the bill horrendously stupid, and they should know.

If we want them to retool completely..TO TECHN THAT DOES NOT CURRENTLY EXIST...it will require massive capital investment. WHY would you add the largest tax increase of all time ON TOP OF THAT?

"the largest tax increase of all time"

Real dollars, or nominal dollars?

Get ready for brown outs, and diminished energy supplies. Just when we will need more 'fossil fuels'...they will have not been brought on stream because they have been stigmatized.

It will INCREASE are reliance on imports, making our supplies less certain.

BTW do you know where our two largest sources of oil production are from currently???????

Real dollars, or nominal dollars?

which one makes Obama look better? Let me guess...if we use nominal dollars then he looks worse which means you want to focus on real dollars.

so go ahead and compare it in real dollars.

Real or nominal (adjusted for inflation)?

What's the difference. Oh that's right by crowding out the public investments with gov debt, the fed might try to inflate us out of our debt problems.

"which one makes Obama look better?"

Who gives a fuck? I'm just trying to find out if it's a comparison that could pass an Econ 101 midterm.

And while I don't know the answer, I know the answer matters. Doesn't it to you, or have you already come in with your verdict?

"Real or nominal (adjusted for inflation)? What's the difference."

If you don't know, why should we listen to your point?

And btw, nominal, by definition, is NOT adjusted for inflation, hence the importance of the question.

en.wikipedia.org

I know the answer matters. Doesn't it to you, or have you already come in with your verdict?

Actually I do think it matters. I wanted to ask you the same question but I'm sure it if matters to you and that you have "already come in with your verdict"

Internal rates of return projections of future dollar flows are predicated on assumed inflation levels.

No one can assume to know what those levels for the next 20 years will be, with a high certainty.

I believe solar IS the long term solution to many current problems, though it's decades away from being viable. Most everyone i know is all for R+D to develop solar techn. Wanna tax everyone so we can get a dollar stream to pay for it> FINE, just go ahead and tax them. But to develop a gov (mis)run platform of trading energy credits is only feasible on a drawling board. It is wide open to manipulation, fraud, waste, and gov costs run amock

" I wanted to ask you the same question but I'm sure it if matters to you and that you have "already come in with your verdict""

While I'm not exactly sure what that means, I think I answered in #115. I don't know the answer, but I know the answer matters.

And try not to presume: I don't like cap & trade at all, and think there would be much better ways to achieve our goals than adding another layer of government bureaucracy.

Fuckin hilarious. Someone (me) posts a link showing that Palin supported cap and trade merely several months ago, and no one comments. I love this shit. You blind Sarah lovers are just as amazing as the Obamaniacs (the actual ones who bought into the messiah stuff that he _stopped_ doing not long into the general election campaign).

For fuck's sake, I am going to be blunt as well:


TOO MUCH OXYGEN WILL KILL YOU!!!!!!


#100 | Posted by Zap at 2009-07-15 03:42 PM | Reply |


I'm going to be blunt.

TOO LITTLE CO2 WILL KILL THE PLANTS AND YOU'LL STARVE TO DEATH.

Who losses here? Texans, by paying higher bills. I gues AK doesn't mind those high bills, mine was $500 this last month, my neighbors $600. Makes me very thankful energy prices are in the 50's-60's for the summer strip and not the bushesque 100+ range!!

LM

#72 | Posted by Liberal_Mongrel
---------------
Speak for yourself my electric bill was only $110 and I'm in Texas. Hehehe, you liberals yell and scream about global warming yet you have bigger carbon footprints than I, a republican, do. Go figure! I still say it's all a excuse to tax us into fucking oblivion.

Lonnie

Fuckin hilarious. Someone (me) posts a link showing that Palin supported cap and trade merely several months ago, and no one comments. I love this shit. You blind Sarah lovers are just as amazing as the Obamaniacs (the actual ones who bought into the messiah stuff that he _stopped_ doing not long into the general election campaign).

#120 | Posted by pragmatist
--------------------
Actually Sarah didn't have a say so because John McCain supported it and he was in the president slot. You know John McCain, a liberal Republican. There was no difference between him and Obama when it comes to global warming...their both true idiots to junk science.

You can love this shit all you want but the reality is the presidential candidate makes the policies and the vice president really doesn't have a say so.

Lonnie

Fuckin hilarious. Someone (me) posts a link showing that Palin supported cap and trade merely several months ago, and no one comments. I love this shit. You blind Sarah lovers are just as amazing as the Obamaniacs (the actual ones who bought into the messiah stuff that he _stopped_ doing not long into the general election campaign).

#120 | Posted by pragmatist
--------------------
Actually Sarah didn't have a say so because John McCain supported it and he was in the president slot. You know John McCain, a liberal Republican. There was no difference between him and Obama when it comes to global warming...their both true idiots to junk science.

You can love this shit all you want but the reality is the presidential candidate makes the policies and the vice president really doesn't have a say so.

Lonnie

"the presidential candidate makes the policies and the vice president really doesn't have a say so."

Where on Earth have you been the last eight years?

Sorry for the double post. My internet connection is acting funny for some reason. Must be all of the hot air here on drudge.

Lonnie

"the presidential candidate makes the policies and the vice president really doesn't have a say so."

Where on Earth have you been the last eight years?


Candidate Dan. Read, comprehend then post

"Candidate Dan. Read, comprehend then post"

And you're actually going to pretend Cheney didn't make the policies once in the WH, regardless of the candidate?

You failed on your middle verb.

I see that Liberal_Mongrel has no explanation on how billions in GHG allowances and fuel "efficiency" standards for new cars of a measly 22mpg will save the earth from warming.

Weren't Palin and McCain for Cap and Trade during the Campaign?

Cap and trade will be good economically in the long run for this country, and good environmentally. The countries that make their energy greener will be best able to cope with the 21st century. Climate change is making this stuff unavoidable. Changes have to happen.

#27 | Posted by rcade at 2009-07-15 11:09 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Please eplain to me how the same energy that I use today is going to make me or the country better off if it cost me 10, 20 or even 50% more?

Please explain why greener energy will allow us to cope with the 21st century. We have plenty of coal and oil to last long past the 21st centry. What school of economics taught you that paying higher prices for the same goods and materials is better for the consumer?

Please explain to me what happened to global warming and why we are now calling it Climate change.

Pleae explain why this Friday July 17th the expected HIGH in Milwaukee WI is going to be 67 degrees when the normal high this time of year is 84. THis is one of the coolest summers we have had in decades. The last 2 winters we had some of the highest snow totals and coverage across north america. I was sking in CO in mid april and they had 100% of the runs open.

"Candidate Dan. Read, comprehend then post"

And you're actually going to pretend Cheney didn't make the policies once in the WH, regardless of the candidate?

You failed on your middle verb.

#128 | Posted by Danforth
--------------------------
Actually, you should try staying awake for the campaign's Danforth. I'm not saying the vice president doesn't have a say so after the election. The presidential candidate writes the campaign policies after they get elected is a different story all together. Nice to see you can't tell the difference between campaign and presidency.

Lonnie

RCADE,

Then please also try to spin why passing this cap and trade bill will do anything other than raise prices when companies dont have to reduce emmisions, they can buy their way to any level of emmissions.

Oh wait is it because the messiah said so?

Please explain to me what happened to global warming and why we are now calling it Climate change.

#131 | Posted by WI_Hunter
-------------
Granted, I still have the same questions you do but I think they call it climate change because even Al Gore has to admit, it's not warming right now. Long before global warming ever existed, global cooling did. This way they have both ends of the spectrum covered if they address it as climate change.

However, my take is that the climate is completely natural and trying to fix something that isn't broken isn't exactly the most intelligent thing to do. The individuals who fall into this scam aren't completely honest with themselves. For example if we're having this problem then how do you make it rain on Que? We can't even predict the damn weather now these idiots want to attempt to control it. You can't!

After this scam has proved to be the scam it is, Al Gore should consider being a used car salesman. Normally when scams are exposed the people involved lose all of their money. It will be fun to watch Al go broke.

Lonnie

"Nice to see you can't tell the difference between campaign and presidency."

Almost as nice as you trading the rhetoric of the campaign for the reality of the governance.

Sure. You see the presidential nominees don't hire a VP until they make it to the start of the general election. Each candidate selects their VP at their national conventions. Which is just in time to run the general election. Most times, the VP nominee doesn't even know they are going to be it until a day or two before the convention. I'm sorry I can't help you understand that if you can't already comprehend it. You libs need to get your minds off George W. and Dick Cheney. They aren't even in office right now. We were discussing mccain/palin ticket and she didn't have any influence over policy whatsoever. *POP* that's just that bubble you've been living in popping.

Lonnie

HNIC IN CHARGE COULD NOT RUN A FUCKING HOT DOG STAND.

#137

Who are you and why is your cap key on lock?

Have you not read the moderators policy yet??

I would love to hear Palin state what exactly is cap and trade. It would be "must see" TV.

I see that no one can tell me how buying and selling billions of tons of GHG allowances to make Goldman Sachs richer and mandating that cars be above a measly 22mpg fuel efficiency is going to save us from this urgent climate crisis.

#139: She thought they meant "Catch and Release Tax". It would decimate Alaskan fly fishing.

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