I am going to start saving my nickels and dimes in case I want to go to Switzerland someday.

This is the Thread where the "Liberty" and "Personal Freedom" brigade sashays in and condemns this couple's employment of "liberty" and Personal Freedom"!

It's as if you almost have to be an Olympic gymnast or Circus Contortionists to Keep Up with the Convoluted, conflicting and ever changing Positions of what's left of the "right"!

I bet you wont hear one Single "Let the Market Decide" come from these cretins Cake Holes on this matter!

......they went out on a high note.....

I think we need to start strapping bombs on these people and push them into mosques.

Understand that the very loonies who would dictate what goes on in women's wombs would fight like the very devil for a law that keeps you from pulling the plug on an unendurable existence. The Edward G. Robinson character in "Soylent Green" ended things in an admirable fashion we should be able to emulate. herm

And of course I meant AGAINST such a law. You knew that. herm

Damn, I thought you had finally gone to the light.

Whistleblower claims

Suicide assistant Soraya Wernli said she resigned from Dignitas because she was concerned at the way couples and mentally ill people were dealt with by the organisation.

"I have no problem at all with assisted suicide, if somebody is terminally ill, my problem is with how Dignitas deals with it," she said.

Dignitas has also been criticised for helping Daniel James, aged 23, to commit suicide last year after he was paralysed while playing rugby.

Marjorie Wallace, chief executive of mental health charity SANE, said Mr Minelli was offering "a seductive but dangerous solution to the feelings of anguish and hopelessness experienced by some people with mental illness".

She said they should have greater access to effective treatment, rather than the "one-way ticket to despair and unnecessary death" offered by Dignitas.

This is where "liberals" defend suicide for profit.

(#10 was intentionally stupid, just trying to keep up with RedNeckVille)

just trying to keep up with RedNeckVille

#11 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2009-07-15 10:35 AM | Reply | Flag Exercise in futility

(#10 was intentionally stupid, just trying to keep up with RedNeckVille)

Unpossible.

He's become his own parody.

Life has value, intrinsic value.. because life, as our declaration and over 200 years of tradition say, comes from God along with our rights.

Assisted suicide is a slippery slope, and is devaluing of life. There are certainly complexities, and families along with their doctors make difficult decisions every day to stop life support systems. I don't know of any sensible person that suggests those decisions should be made by anyone other than the family and doctors.

The arguments for proponents of government endorsed assisted suicide are mostly silly; people have been killing themselves throughout history without government endorsement.

Elderly parents shamed into suicide by their selfish children, the government deciding whose life is and is not worth saving, deciding that its OK to kill a conductor while perhaps not to kill a politician.. want that kind of society?

Couching an assisted suicide agenda under the guise of "caring" is nothing less than evil. The actual history of suicide clinics looks nothing like "caring" and a lot more like expediency. An expediency that cares nothing whatsoever for life.

I dont see a problem with this all you have to do is show you are a liberal democrate and you should be eligible for assisted suiside becasue of the mental defect in their brains. Hell why wait for them to seek it out

#16 | Posted by WI_Hunter at 2009-07-15 11:35 AM

Showing them that post would certainly qualify you.

NMG

you are being way to intellectual on your post

its simple..
the european health care system which dems are taking us couldnt afford to keep them on the rolls.

so if he planned this I wonder what if any was playing in the background when he went??

bach more than likely........

Assisted suicide is a slippery slope, and is devaluing of life.

Just like my car and house, my life is mine. If I wish to devalue or even destroy it, it is no one's business but mine.

Assisted suicide is a slippery slope, and is devaluing of life.

#15 | Posted by nmg_no

Still doesn't get it. Dying with dignity adds value to life.

You are obviously someone who has never watched a loved one slowly and painfully die. To die with dignity is also one of those rights you speak of that were granted to us by our Creator.

to die with dignity..

wow..what a heavy issue to tackle alright.....

while its romantic and all to dream about maybe a whatchacallit funneral..
where they put you in a boat and set it afire at sea..

while thats romantic,.....I have a better idea..just dont die,.....thats my plan.

VIKING FUNNERAL...

"VIKING FUNNERAL(sic)..."

That's drinking margaritas through a funnel while wearing a Viking hat that's on fire.

That's drinking margaritas through a funnel while wearing a Viking hat that's on fire.

LOL The mental image here . . .

Is there salt on the funnel?

The Edward G. Robinson character in "Soylent Green" ended things in an admirable fashion we should be able to emulate. herm

#6 | Posted by herm

He was converted into food and eaten Herm!!!

How is killing themselves dying with dignity?

When someone blows their head off with a gun--is that dignified?

When someone sucks up carbon dioxide in the garage--is that dignified?

They killed themselves and it's wrong.

Much better to spend you final hours in agonizing pain so your family has that as their last vision of you.

Just like my car and house, my life is mine. If I wish to devalue or even destroy it, it is no one's business but mine.

#19 | POSTED BY GOATMAN AT 2009-07-15 12:03 PM | REPLY | FLAG

Oh Goat, it may be your kid's business too. Maybe when you hit 80, they'll start giving you shit about spending their inheritance and try to move you a little quicker down life's path.

Maybe it'll be govt.'s business too. They are going to nationalize healthcare. I'm sure that friendly people will be there to counsel those on a downward path on their alternatives to expensive health care.. and the health care needed to older folks just isn't "cost effective" in their particular circumstance and according to the government "schedule."

"Much better to spend you final hours in agonizing pain so your family has that as their last vision of you."

Not to mention spending whatever savings you've amassed to this point.

They killed themselves and it's wrong.

It's their life, Murph.

If I get to the point of living in unbearable pain or become bedridden I plan to do myself in. There's a difference between living and being alive.

"They killed themselves and it's wrong."

Murphy, you are insufferably patronizing and judgmental, here as so many times elsewhere.

Herm: Understand that the very loonies who would dictate what goes on in women's wombs would fight like the very devil for a law that keeps you from pulling the plug on an unendurable existence.

i don't get it: pro-lifers "would fight like the very devil for a law that keeps you from pulling the plug on an unendurable existence"?

how does that not make sense? i mean i understand the pro-life pro death penalty paradox, but where does you comment fit?

me? pro choice, anti-death penalty, pro assisted suicide, etc.
i'm not saying i'm perfect i'm just saying what i believe.

sorry herm, i see it now.

When someone blows their head off with a gun--is that dignified?

Well, I for one can think of a much more dignified way to go. But, if that is how you want to go out who am I to say you are not very creative. Maybe they will offer that option in the clinic. You are responsible for all cleanup costs though.

Maybe when you hit 80, they'll start giving you shit about spending their inheritance and try to move you a little quicker down life's path.

now that is just plain silly! I am not waiting until I am 80 to spend my children's inheritance! I am spending that shit now. If they want anything from me they better help me not move me down the "path".

I think it's funny that we as a society have no problem with the euthanization of animals, most people agree that extending an animal's life when its in pain and nothing can be done is cruel.

But a human who wants the same courtesy is denied it, bizarre.

Like so many questions regarding ethics, once you deem such a behavior acceptable, the question of whether it is acceptable in all circumstances or should there be lines drawn immediately comes to the forefront.

Should only the terminally ill be allowed to commit suicide?

Should only the terminally ill in great pain be allowed to commit suicide?

How many years of living left (as gauged by a fallible medical authority) gives one the option of committing suicide?

Should anyone be allowed to commit suicide at any point? (Mom committed suicide; now the rest of society has to raise her kids. Her kids have to deal with the emotional scarring of losing a parent.)

Should people be allowed to help others with committing suicide? If so, who? And to what degree? (Imagine how that might complicate murder cases. You killed your husband. No, he was feeling depressed and needed help committing suicide.)

Who gets to the draw the lines and based on what rationale or criteria?

LIVE_AND_DIE: This is where "liberals" defend suicide for profit.

isn't that our current healthcare system?

NMG_NO: Life has value, intrinsic value.. because life, as our declaration and over 200 years of tradition say, comes from God. ... Assisted suicide is a slippery slope, and is devaluing of life.

you speak of "values" and "slippery slopes". what kind of slippery slope, a moral slope? what consequences do you foresee, i expect you to give the WHOLE story, not your religion's selective dicta pass off as "free choice". no, you do not speak of the tragedy you are, have, would continue to cause.

we are free [adult] people. you are NOT my judge or my personal ruler.

"When we make self-discipline by law a civic duty we commit a moral tragedy in that we dissolve a person's sense of self self-accomplishment and erode his self-esteem. We throw sand into the gears of self- discipline by making it [self-governance] a civic duty. No, caveat emptor prevails in a free market, buyer beware. A free market breeds self-governance and personal responsibility, thus is the right and moral foundation of a free market; there is no sense in giving people a choice if one is convinced that they are either too young, too old, or mentally incompetent to make the right choice."

Who gets to the draw the lines and based on what rationale or criteria?

#36 | Posted by Grendel

no one said it would be easy.

OOHRAH: I just don't think it's the government's role, nor the role of physicians.

so the gov should not assist in one's obtaining life giving or saving services either.

no, i oppose your logic there, the gov should assist in both as part the general welfare.

single-payer, universal. i have a right to any drug i want, good or bad, life or death.

How is killing themselves dying with dignity?
When someone blows their head off with a gun--is that dignified?

When someone sucks up carbon dioxide in the garage--is that dignified?

They killed themselves and it's wrong.

that is not up to you, my reality is mine alone.

(eventually you have to look at how often and who does this, and get off crack pipe of hyperbole, hysteria and prohibition and instead look to ENJOY FREEDOM and LIBERTY.)

GENDEL: You killed your husband. No, he was feeling depressed and needed help committing suicide.

and that is suppose to be was the ONLY fact in that case before our little DR court?

we are not machines nor should we be; we are not perfect; each case (in this case after the fact -- a crime has been alleged, yes?) is individually considered.

i find this often in the christian right and other fundamentalism: anti-intellectual, anti-knowledge, anti-reason.... one book of LAW interpreted your choice of minister, war, blood, death.

no time for frivolous discussions or arguments. it is written.

so the founders of the greatest nation KNEW to begin a SECULAR society.

what is "secularism" and how and what did they "know"?

I wanna go in my sleep - just like grandpa did.

(But not like the passengers that were in his car - screaming their heads off and stuff).

When someone blows their head off with a gun--is that dignified?

No--That's why assisted suicide is much better. They drank a clear liquid and went to sleep. Very dignified.

When someone sucks up carbon dioxide in the garage--is that dignified?

No--That's why assisted suicide is much better. They drank a clear liquid and went to sleep. Very dignified.

They killed themselves and it's wrong.

Not enough pain suffering and misery for you? I guess you missed the screaming in pain and convulsions for the 74 year old woman. I guess the blind and deaf conductor should have enjoyed his torture for another year or so to make you feel good.

#26 | Posted by MURPHY at 2009-07-15 01:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Life has value, intrinsic value.. because life, as our declaration and over 200 years of tradition say, comes from God along with our rights.

#15 | Posted by nmg_no at 2009-07-15 11:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

Human Life comes from no God--life comes from fucking. No more fucking--no more humans.

No God ever gave anyone any rights. Jefferson never spoke for God--and was not a Christian.

Your delusions should have no effect on other people.

Who gets to the draw the lines and based on what rationale or criteria?

#36 | Posted by Grendel

no one said it would be easy.

Yes, but it would be more than simply not easy. It would be impossible to come to a protocols, guidelines and laws upon which all would agree.

The variety of opinions, beliefs and concerns means that we would never reach a consensus, and such laws would be yet another social issue that would divide our society.

This is not necessarily a reason to outlaw euthanasia, but one wonders if this is another case in which we will blaze forward despite the fact that our moral, ethical and legal wisdom is probably not advanced enough to actually deal with the issue.

Euthanasia, if ever allowed in the US, will most likely be accepted not based upon rationale moral and ethical principles but simply on emotional arguments or worse yet, economic ones. People will demand it and then a legal rationale will be created to justfy legalizing the demands.

It would be interesting to know if euthanasia is legally more acceptable in countries with socialized medicine and universal health care. (For the record, I think the US needs some kind of universal health care.)

I'll have more to say on this later but "assisted suicide" is wrong. SLIPPERY SLOPE!

And I have a question or two for this couple's two adult children who were "so helpful" in getting their parents to a clinic in another country so their parents could kill themselves.

The two adult children's press release for their parents assisted-suicide looked like some lawyer wrote it for them -- a lawyer who made sure to cover all the bases in the wording making sure it appeared to be solely their parents idea to take part in a suicide pact and had been a long, thought out decision on their parent's part.

I think these two adult children may have been just a little "too assisting" in their parents decision to take their lives.

The article said their father, who was 85 at the time of his assisted suicide, was "almost blind and increasingly deaf."

So that's a reason to die?

Err, did his two adult children ever bother to "assist" their father in getting to an opthalmologist to have him checked out for cataracts -- a simple surgery which might have greatly improved his eyesight.

Did the two adult children ever to "assist" their father by checking into whether there were any hearing aids on the market which may have helped some with his hearing loss? Sure would like to know.

Guess you all can see where I'm going with these questions.

#51

I was thinking the same things Chris.

Hopefully we are way off base.

I can see where Chrissie is going with her queries, and it's an ugly destination.

Why can these old-timers NOT experience the right and the satisfaction of going out together at a time of their choosing in a manner of their choosing? Chrissie, who has displayed more humanity in our time together here, wants to paint a picture of greedy children. Unless she knows something not in evidence to me, I'd prefer to think of children giving their parents the ultimate helpful gesture, herm

Hope this really catches on like wild-fire with "all" the members of the US Govt!!!

I 've got no problems with doing yourself in,but don't blow your head off or jump out of a building.Think of those who have to clean up the mess

At least they didnt take innocent people or children with them.

As long as it was by their own free will I have no problem but it just seems they could've have somehow done it themselves and taken the death for profit aspect out of it. The hows are readily available via net search engines.

What an idiot. I would never end my life because my old lady was terminally ill. I would put her ass on the train and I'd tell her I'd see her in hell.

The hows are readily available via net search engines.

85 years old. Almost blind and deaf.

Prefers Google over Yahoo.

85 years old. Almost blind and deaf.

Prefers Google over Yahoo.

I wouldn't know I only use askJolene

Warning not recommended search engine for a prissy like Lisa or adolescents like Shawn though I'm sure Chris and Spudmeister are very familiar with it

#61

HEY!!

Are you mad at ne for something? That's two posts where you've mentioned my name and I haven't done anything!!

I told you yesterday, Lisa, Gimme is grumpy old prick with no friends and bad children. Don't take it personally.

A man and his wife walk into a suicide clinic...

Wow, Spud's never heard that one before.

Wot? Not a joke?

* reads article *

Hmmm, Spud thinks it's a no-brainer.

Euthanasia is a right.

Spud thinks that judging the quality of one's life and choosing when to end one's own life when a death with dignity is adjudged preferable to a short, miserable pain filled existence is a morally justifiable position.

That making people who want the right to end their own suffering (and that of their doctors and friends who would assist them in that effort) into criminals is absurd and immoral.

That those on this thread who would deny a woman the right to choose in terms of procreation now indicate that they would also intervene to try and keep mercy killing of humans illegal shouldn't come as any kind of a surprise to anyone.

Certainly not fer Spud.

Spud wonders how the Maestro decided to off hisself.

Thinks that tipping an electrical device like a teevee into a bathtub he was in would be appropriate.

Then he coulda died like he lived.

** wait fer it **

...As a conductor.

* bows *

* waves *

* leaves *

Be Well.

/As ya do
stage left.