Rosiland was behind him with some sort of device strapped around her waist when the former president made his remarks.

"Yeah but the bitches better swallow" Mark 3:22

Good for him. This convenient interpretation of Adam and Eve has caused harm to women for a couple of thousand years. Nobody should be listening to that garbage anymore.

Well, good to know that Rogers is back to his regular "Let's bash Christians" threads.

Just would not be the Retort without a couple of these each week.

Six decades.

Still, I think I get his point. Imagine how much better the Republic would have been had he not been president, and Rosalyn had. It's unthinkable she could have been worse.

Well, good to know that Rogers is back to his regular "Let's bash Christians" threads.

#4 | Posted by vernon at 2009-07-14 05:08 AM |

It's just that you make it so easy Verm.

It nice to see strong character and positive ethics from the past President, something we have not had in a very very long time.

..."Let's bash Christians" threads.

How is this a Christian Bashing thread?

This is a Jimmy Carter leaves Southern Baptist Church due to unevolved, unenlightened, senseless, needless, sexist policies and practices thread.

More anti-sexist than anti-religious/anti-Chistian in any way.

Do you have a position here, Vern, or are you just here to kvetch?

Spud sees no good and great harm being done by religious institutions remaining hidebound by patriarchal doctrines that have no place in this century.

If yer gonna believe in a make believe guy in the sky make believe in a good one, K?

Good on Carter fer making this brave moral choice here.

Kudos.

The guy just keeps on impressing Spud.

Be Well.

carter is now a islamic convert.

Well, good to know that Rogers is back to his regular "Let's bash Christians" threads.

I guess supporting gender equality comes across as "Christian bashing" to Vermin. That goes to show you what kind of "Christian" he is.

"Still, I think I get his point. Imagine how much better the Republic would have been had he not been president,"

Hey, you got your wish, Reagan took over in 1980. We are dealing with the aftermath of his presidency to this very day. I wonder what our history would have been like had we followed Carter's plan to get off imported oil??? I KNOW it would be better than the history we actually lived.

Strangely enough, on this I agree with Carter (whom I usually think is an idiot....).

While I think modern feminist are idiots, its almost impossible to argue with classic feminism from a secular standpoint, and hard to argue with it from a christian standpoint (I'm not christian, but I was raised catholic and LIKE christians).

Classic Feminism:
Both male and female have valid free wills which have a right to be EQUALLY free.

Modern Feminism:
Society must be re-engineered until enough women are in positions of economic/political authority, regardless of how many women WANT such a life.

For me it all boils down to free will and responsibility for your own life and actions. Concepts fully in line with Christianity.

"Hey, you got your wish, Reagan took over in 1980."

Right, Danni. I wonder how you can explain all the good done by democrat presidents, especially Carter, if you stop to think that only ONE...that is ONE, like the number (1)...has been REELECTED since FDR in 1940. The one that was reelected needs to thank Perot for that, by the way. He never did get 50% of the vote. I suspect that the trend may continue unless there is some kind of miracle between now and 2012. This data kinda indicates that most voters consider....

Democrats....BAD!

You Christians should get over it.

It's only a few more sentences of your holy book you have to ignore.

Eat your shrimp salad while wearing your poly/cotton dress and STFU.

Well, good to know that Rogers is back to his regular "Let's bash Christians" threads. -- #4 | Posted by vernon

Carter is protesting a particular group, not all Christians, and Rogers is just reporting it.

There used to be a Klan center a few miles from a university town I lived in, and its pastor gave sermons (and newspaper interviews) explaining that God made blacks lesser beings. Do you think criticizing him was Christian bashing?

Modern Feminism:
Society must be re-engineered until enough women are in positions of economic/political authority, regardless of how many women WANT such a life. -- #12 | Posted by USAF242

Where do you get this idea? Isn't it a little like dismissing civil rights activists as black supremacists?

"I wonder how you can explain all the good done by democrat presidents, especially Carter, if you stop to think that only ONE...that is ONE, like the number (1)...has been REELECTED since FDR in 1940."

Being reelected has little or nothing to do with which presidents did good or bad for the country. We are dealing with the economic collapse caused by REaganomics, but REagan was reelecte unfortunately. We would be 3 trillion less in debt had he not been.
We are stuck in two wars with the costs associated due to the a. incompetence, b. dihonesty, c. both of George W. Bush but he was reelected (haha).

Rosiland was behind him with some sort of device strapped around her waist when the former president made his remarks.

#1 | Posted by Diablo

Demonstrating yet again what a despicable low-life character you have with such a statement.

Why don't you repeat this to your wife and/or kids (if you have any) and see if you get a laugh from them.

carter is now a islamic convert.

#9 | Posted by semtex11

And you continue your conversion to Complete Idiot.

Phoenix

The entire premise of modern feminism has NOTHING to do with free will.

Modern Feminism is based solely on the firm belief that there is no such thing as a Chick Flick.

Modern Feminism not only rejects, but denounces the very concept that there are some differences in the ways that men and women live and think that affect their life choices......

.....thus, there is no such thing as a chick flick, and if we stop socially programming our children, they will "naturally" start liking the exact same movies, doing things the same way, living the same in all regards, etc

Class Feminism is defferent. It demands that a little girl that wants to grow up and be President be given a honest shot at it, and not be dimissed simply due to her gender.

Classic Feminism supports free will WITHOUT denouncing the gender roles that most people CHOOSE to take.

So long as boys and girls have the little aspects of humanity that make them male and female in mind as well as in body, society WILL show a marked devision of gender roles. This is not a bad thing. Classic Feminism has no problem with it. Modern Feminism has a BIG problem with it. I support Free Will, so support what classic feminism favors.

Free Will combined with individual responsibility trumps all.

Worst President we ever had! Would expect such trash comments from such a "loser".

"Being reelected has little or nothing to do with which presidents did good or bad for the country."

We know, Danni...you have drilled it into us incessantly:

Democrats....GOOD!
Republicans...BAD!

Right???
Some of us just can't understand why they can't get the voters to reelect those "good" democrats. Or, could it be that "good" is just some intangible that exists in YOUR mind. For your information, I'm certainly no admirer of republicans these days but when it comes to choosing between BAD and WORSE, I've been forced to vote for those "bad" republicans. Many others probably feel as I do.

Good fer Jimmah.

Some of the greatest, most interesting, and most powerful characters in the Bible, OT and NT, are women. Jesus analogized the relationship between men and women as that between himself and the church, a relationship not of subservience but of grace, trust, love, and respect.

Out of context scripture has been used to denigrate women for years, and it's nice to see someone take a stand.

Worst President we ever had! Would expect such trash comments from such a "loser".

#21 | Posted by jwhiteyh

Okay Jackoff, you made the remark, now tell us specifically which comments he made that you consider "trash".

Democrats....GOOD!
Republicans...BAD!

Right???
Some of us just can't understand why they can't get the voters to reelect those "good" democrats. Or, could it be that "good" is just some intangible that exists in YOUR mind.

Its that Goddamn Fox News and Rush Limbaugh!!!!!

Of course Danni is unable to pin Reagan's re-election (49 states I think) on either of them.

LOL

Jimmy Carter, American folk hero. Not our greatest president, but surely the greatest EX-president. For Carter to sever ties with the demon - er - denomination with which he was so long associated is an act of conscience that even the rigid righties who bad-mouth their betters ought to admire. herm

Its that Goddamn Fox News and Rush Limbaugh!!!!!

Of course Danni is unable to pin Reagan's re-election (49 states I think) on either of them.

LOL

#25 | Posted by eberly

I think it's because a large percentage of the population didn't really care if the president supplied weapons to Iran.
Or maybe they didn't care that his administration tried to stop the Vietnam Wall from being built.

I think it's because a large percentage of the population didn't really care if the president supplied weapons to Iran.
Or maybe they didn't care that his administration tried to stop the Vietnam Wall from being built.

they can't care one way or the other if they don't know.

they can't care one way or the other if they don't know.

#28 | Posted by eberly

So Reagan got re-elected because the people didn't know what a scumbag he was?
I guess I can agree with that.

-they can't care one way or the other if they don't know

Ah, the Dick Cheney philosophy of government. The illegal action the public doesn't know about won't hurt them. Right.

galatians 3:26 - "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

and no, i do not adhere to anything carter has to say - he is a liberal buffet christian who preaches and lives by a social gospel which does not exist in christianity.

women were created to be an accompaniment/companion to men - equal, yet weaker vessel.

"there is neither male nor female"

Well, there goes any Biblical opposition to gay marriage.

...buffet christian...

#31 | Posted by nanc

Is there any other kind of christian? The bible is so full of contradictions that nobody can say that they agree with the entire thing.

So the Southern Baptist convention says it is...
ordained that women must be "subservient" to their husbands and prohibited from serving as deacons, pastors or chaplains in the military service.

So does that mean that they won't vote for Sarah Palin or listen to Dr. Laura or read anything written by Anne Coulter?
After all these are women in authority trying to tell men what to do and how to live their life.
Isn't it one of the "Traditional Values" that religious people are always spouting about, that women are meant to be in supportive roles and not leadership ones?

#20 | Posted by USAF242

I don't think the distinction is so much modern feminists and classic feminists as it is extremist feminists and feminists.

I think a lot of woman who believe in EQUAL rights hesitate to be labelled as a feminist because of the man-hating stereotype. And the crazy extremists get the most attention because they're the loudest they've twisted the general perception of feminism.

I don't think that most woman would want a job handed to them solely because they're a woman. And I think most woman respect a person's right to choose their lifestyle and that includes choosing to be a stay-at-home mom.

The bible tells the wives to submit to their husbands and that husbands sacrifice all for their wife. It's clearly a two way street even if you're trying to take the bible literally.

Also, Adam tried blaming the original sin on Eve, but it's clear later on that the blame rested on Adam, as it's his name given when discussing who brought sin into the world, not Eve's.

I have been a Christian all my life and I know there was no Adam and Eve as depicted in the Bible.

"""Modern Feminism not only rejects, but denounces the very concept that there are some differences in the ways that men and women live and think that affect their life choices......

.....thus, there is no such thing as a chick flick, and if we stop socially programming our children, they will "naturally" start liking the exact same movies, doing things the same way, living the same in all regards, etc""""

Apart from your own opinion, how to do you come to that conclusion?

For me, the concept is quite simple: equal yet not the same.

Isn't it one of the "Traditional Values" that religious people are always spouting about, that women are meant to be in supportive roles and not leadership ones?
.....#34 | Posted by TFDNihilist

.......are you calling Ann Coulter a woman ?.......

I have been a Christian all my life and I know there was no Adam and Eve as depicted in the Bible.

#37 | Posted by chickenfucker

I guess you're a "buffet christian".

#6 | Posted by jerrytarkanian at 2009-07-14 06:19 AM | Reply | Flag:

Sorry, bigot, but I ain't a Baptist. And I know what those Scriptures actually mean.
------------
#10 | Posted by ZombieHunter at 2009-07-14 07:59 AM | Reply | Flag:

ZombieTurd: The fact that you would use a line like "That goes to show you what kind of "Christian" he is" proves my point. Meaningless, uninformed comment from a mindless brain.

Thank you for being such an obedient, predictable clown.

Since that's already over your head .... This thread is just live bait for creeps like you to spew your routine "Christians bad" bullshit.

Spout your ignorance. Not like you have an original thought worth sharing.

Well, good to know that Rogers is back to his regular "Let's bash Christians" threads.

#4 | Posted by vermin

...from the article:

In some Islamic nations, women are restricted in their movements, punished for permitting the exposure of an arm or ankle, deprived of education, prohibited from driving a car or competing with men for a job. If a woman is raped, she is often most severely punished as the guilty party in the crime.

...now back to Vermin...

Since that's already over your head .... This thread is just live bait for creeps like you to spew your routine "Christians bad" bullshit.

Spout your ignorance. Not like you have an original thought worth sharing.

#41 | Posted by vermin

"Spout your ignorance. Not like you have an original thought worth sharing.

#41 | Posted by vernon "

And thus, Vermin composed his own epitaph.

As long as there are weak minded women like Nanc that buy into the subservient bullshit, the Talibabtists and Muslims will continue to treat women like dogs. Until they stand up to the bastards, the stupid (insert expletive here) deserve it.

Good for Carter. Best ex-president EVER!!!

got to love the bible

2I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,[a] just as I passed them on to you.
3Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her headit is just as though her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7A man ought not to cover his head,[b] since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head.

11In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God. 13Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering. 16If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practicenor do the churches of God

Nanc, you wearing your burka to church yet?

So Vermin, do YOU agree with Jimmy Carter on this issue?
If not, tell us what you disagree with.

So Reagan got re-elected because the people didn't know what a scumbag he was?
I guess I can agree with that.

#29 | Posted by RastaCyborg

No. The people who even voted against him weren't aware of that stuff. that was my point.

Not our greatest president, but surely the greatest EX-president.

#26 | Posted by herm at 2009-07-14 10:06 AM | Reply

Hopefully, this stupid myth will die with Carter and the boobs who have worshiped him since 1975.

How many years can they have left?

Between North Korea, the Middle East and Africa, Carter is personally responsible for the pointless deaths of at least 10 million.

But herm thinks that is an acceptable price for building a few crappy houses -=- but only while the TV cameras are running.

vernon

moved to china so he can get a subserviant wife...
proof of the kind of "christian" he is.

your point isn't proven except in your own stupid head.

blunt

Thanks for avoiding the question Vermin. And your lunacy inspires laughter in all of us.

...from the article:

In some Islamic nations, women are restricted in their movements, punished for permitting the exposure of an arm or ankle, deprived of education, prohibited from driving a car or competing with men for a job. If a woman is raped, she is often most severely punished as the guilty party in the crime.

#42 | Posted by RastaCyborg at 2009-07-14 11:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

And this has just WHAT to do with Southern Baptists? What does it have to do with my post?

I only pointed out that DR MUST have a Christian bashing fest at least twice a week. A documentable fact.

And the only 'retort' you have is about Muslims who restrict their womens' movements?

You are truly groping and desperate. Give up now, while you still look merely foolish.

(but I know you won't. You can't resist. You cannot win, but you cannot resist losing!)

Now someone approached him and said, "Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?"
17
He answered him, "Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. 13 If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."
18
14 He asked him, "Which ones?" And Jesus replied, " 'You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness;
19
honor your father and your mother'; and 'you shall love your neighbor as yourself.'"

Amazing how jesus got the 10 commandments wrong.

whhhhhaaaaa whiny fauxtian fuckers

#50 | Posted by RastaCyborg at 2009-07-14 11:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

You silly dildo. I addressed Carter's points long before you even tried to ask a question. Try reading the posts before your flush your mouth into a post:
---------

Sorry, bigot, but I ain't a Baptist. And I know what those Scriptures actually mean.

#41 | Posted by vernon at 2009-07-14 11:12 AM | Reply | Flag:

The obvious point is that the article was not "christian bashing"; the article was against sexism in almost all religions and societies. The article was very pro-christian. Jimmy Carter is a christian.
Your only point is the one on your head.

The obvious point is that the article was not "christian bashing"; the article was against sexism in almost all religions and societies. The article was very pro-christian. Jimmy Carter is a christian.
Your only point is the one on your head.

DOH

DOH

2 Kings 18:27 (King James Version)

27But Rabshakeh said unto them, Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?

mmmmmm bible

Amazing how jesus got the 10 commandments wrong.

#52 | Posted by truthhurts at 2009-07-14 11:31 AM | Reply

Jesus did not. He came to fulfill the law of Moses, which he did.

The New Testament (the New Covenant) does not begin until Acts Chapter 2. With Pentecost.

Jesus' time was during the Mosaic Law.

What's truly hilarious is watching atheists quote scripture way out of context with no sense of it's place in the theology and with no understanding of the premise that no passage of scripture stands alone or is subject to a private interpretation.

Luke 14:26
26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sistersyes, even his own lifehe cannot be my disciple.

mmmmm bibile loving

The New Testament (the New Covenant) does not begin until Acts Chapter 2. With Pentecost.

Jesus' time was during the Mosaic Law.

#60 | Posted by vernon

jesus was asked a question, which commandments must I follow

he listed 6

1 of which is not a commandment.

You silly dildo. I addressed Carter's points long before you even tried to ask a question. Try reading the posts before your flush your mouth into a post:
---------

#54 | Posted by vermin

Really Vermin? I see 5 posts by you on this thread, none of which address the issue Carter is talking about. All you do is cry about what victims you poor christians are.

I wonder what our history would have been like had we followed Carter's plan to get off imported oil??? I KNOW it would be better than the history we actually lived.

Since it wasn't really carter's plan...

And thou shalt eat it [as] barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight."- Ezekiel 4:12

mmmm shit flavored barley cakes

"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days." - Deuteronomy 22:28-29

mmmmmm bible loving

Jimmy Carter is a christian.
Your only point is the one on your head.

#56 | Posted by RastaCyborg at 2009-07-14 11:34 AM | Reply

I have no doubt that Jimmy Carter is a Christian. He has perfect forgiveness.

And when he is called to account for all the death and misery he caused on Earth, he will depend entirely on that mercy.

Same for me.

John 14:6 -- Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

When that time comes for you, what will you call on?

What's truly hilarious is watching atheists quote scripture way out of context with no sense of it's place in the theology and with no understanding of the premise that no passage of scripture stands alone or is subject to a private interpretation.

What's even more hilarious than that are Christians who willfully do the same exact thing.

Fifty shekels? My arm! My arm!

Deuteronomy 21:11-13

21:11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; (21:11-14)
"Thou shalt go in unto her."
If you see a pretty woman among the captives and would like her for a wife, then just bring her home and "go in unto her." Later, if you decide you don't like her, you can "let her go."
21:12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;
21:13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.

mmmmmm bible love connections.

When that time comes for you, what will you call on?

invisible pink unicorn.

Judges 21:19-25 (New International Version)
19 But look, there is the annual festival of the LORD in Shiloh, to the north of Bethel, and east of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem, and to the south of Lebonah."

20 So they instructed the Benjamites, saying, "Go and hide in the vineyards 21 and watch. When the girls of Shiloh come out to join in the dancing, then rush from the vineyards and each of you seize a wife from the girls of Shiloh and go to the land of Benjamin. 22 When their fathers or brothers complain to us, we will say to them, 'Do us a kindness by helping them, because we did not get wives for them during the war, and you are innocent, since you did not give your daughters to them.' "

23 So that is what the Benjamites did. While the girls were dancing, each man caught one and carried her off to be his wife. Then they returned to their inheritance and rebuilt the towns and settled in them.

mmmmmmmmmm bible love connection pt 2

John 14:6 -- Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

When that time comes for you, what will you call on?

#68 | Posted by vermin

Jimmy will be forgiven for his (alleged) crimes; I'll burn in a lake of fire for eternity even though I've never killed anyone because I don't worship a ghost in the sky. This is religious logic.

I Samuel 18:27

18:27 Wherefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king's son in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife.

mmmmm you thought 50 sheckels was bad

"Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him." - James 5:13-15

mmmmmm bible medicine-guess we saw how that worked out for that Washington baby

Truthhurts, you just don't get it.
All the embarassingly stupid things in the bible are just METAPHORS.*

* Unless we need to use them against someone at a later date.

#65 | Posted by Axiom at 2009-07-14 11:41 AM | Reply | Flag: Newsworthy

And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people." - Leviticus 17:10

mmmmmmmmmm huh wait, what about communion?

To prove G-d, you must quote something other than the Bible because the Bible is hardly an unbiased source. It is kind of like using a word to define itself.

#68 | Posted by vernon

"And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Exodus 21:20-21:

If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm the proper way to beat a slave

Leviticus 25:44-45:

Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.

DAMN I WAS JUST VISITING MY COUSIN!

the proper way to beat a slave

The Rule of Thumb (thank you Boondock Saints)

none of which address the issue Carter is talking about. All you do is cry about what victims you poor christians are.

#64 | Posted by RastaCyborg at 2009-07-14 11:40 AM | Reply

Cry?

You are pathetic.

Christians are to encounter the culture and engage it.

As for Carter's straining at gnats, I could give you a couple thousand words explaining the cultural etymology of the verses, but what is the point?

It's all summed up here:

Matt. 7:6 -- Cast not your pearls before swine

You don't care about learning, or knowing how others think. You only care about playing 'gotcha' even when you are losing the game and you are the fool

For God's sake, use a link.

#26 | Posted by herm at 2009-07-14 10:06 AM | Reply | Flag: My dementia is acting up today - well everyday now.

"And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

#81 | Posted by nanc

But if thou needest disregard Commandment 9 in pursuit of the destruction of those with whom thou disagreest, it is written that it shall be done.

- Nanc 3:16

As for Carter's straining at gnats, I could give you a couple thousand words explaining the cultural etymology of the verses, but what is the point?

It's all summed up here:

Matt. 7:6 -- Cast not your pearls before swine

You don't care about learning, or knowing how others think. You only care about playing 'gotcha' even when you are losing the game and you are the fool

#85 | Posted by vermin

So I guess you're still avoiding the question. Were you bearing false witness when you told me that you'd addressed Carter's points in a previous post?

You silly dildo. I addressed Carter's points long before you even tried to ask a question. Try reading the posts before your flush your mouth into a post:

#54 | Posted by vermin

Vermin, bearing false witness against me.

This thread is just live bait for creeps like you to spew your routine "Christians bad" bullshit.

I don't think that all christians are bad... or even the majority. Certain ones, however, are a pox upon humanity, and you exemplify their attributes.

Yeah, Truth, We get it. You can cut-and-paste all day from your favorite anti-Bible Web sites.

It does not change the fact that you are taking everything out of context to serve some silly, short-term point that most people do not care about.

Hey! Did you know that the Bible says your Egg-McMuffin is poisonous?

Isaiah 59:5
------

Hey! Did you know that the Bible says there is no God?

Psalm 53:1

Yep, you can make the Bible say anything you want

wwwwwwwwhhhhaaaaa says the whiny fauxtian

Yep, you can make the Bible say anything you want

#93 | Posted by vernon

Holy shit! I agree with Vernon!!

It does not change the fact that you are taking everything out of context to serve some silly, short-term point that most people do not care about.

#93 | POSTED BY VERNON AT 2009-07-14 12:05 PM | REPLY | FLAG EXCEPT FOR ME AND MY ILK

Yep, you can make the Bible say anything you want

#93 | Posted by vernon

Only to those who have not read it. People say the same thing about the Constitution. Words have meaning and the Bible says what the Bible says, but most who "quote" it have not read it and instead say what they think should be in it.

As to the headline, there are many things G-d doesn't require that His followers are pretty keen on.

In some Islamic nations, women are restricted ..

And this has just WHAT to do with Southern Baptists?

..........#51 | Posted by vernon

......Baptists and Muslims are the same.......

....only difference is they face different directions when they spout their mumbo-jumbo to God/Allah......

Yep, you can make the Bible say anything you want
........#93 | Posted by vernon

......it's just a collection of nonsensical ramblings clipped together to impress the ignorant......

Skizz,
There is value to the Bible if used properly. It should carry no more weight than Aesop's Fables or the stories of the Brothers Grimm. There are morals to be learned, but not absolute laws.

#80 | POSTED BY KANREI
"To prove G-d, you must quote something other than the Bible because the Bible is hardly an unbiased source. It is kind of like using a word to define itself."

Nicely done.

This thread should be renamed The Liberal Left Once Again Shows its Proclivity for Intolerance.

Peanut boy speaks again!

Probably gettin' out of Dodge (Baptist Church) cuz he's finally realized his anti-semitism doesn't fit with Baptist theology.

Hey, better late than never!

#4 | Posted by vernon
#104 | Posted by ELCIDCE90
#105 | Posted by TheOneBS

Well, that's three votes for female subservience. How many are needed for a majority?

Well, that's three votes for female subservience. How many are needed for a majority?

Posted by AILtd at 2009-07-14 02:49 PM

In their world, the number of votes are not as important as who casts them.

The Liberal Left Once Again Shows its Proclivity for Intolerance.
.......#104 | Posted by ELCIDCE90

.......to tolerate ignorance is to be an accomplice to it.......

.....tolerance is not always a virtue......

good for Carter. he does have balls to go with that lust in his heart.

What I find interesting relative to the New Testament is researching the books that DIDNT make the cut. The book of Thomas reads like a Zen playbook. The book of Phillip has a romance going between Jesus and Mary Magdalene. It ticks off the rest of the Apostles, as Jesus 'passionately' kisses Mary Magdalene, who incidently is not a whore, but a well connected wealthy Jew who basically bankrolls Jesus and the apostles.

The book of Mary Magdalen (what has survived the ages) presents an entirely different spin on things, with Mary firmly in the driver seat among the apostles. An interesting read.

Why doesn't Peanuts go over to the middle east and teach those moslems about equality for women? I believe our Western culture for the most part has evolved beyond the sexual discrimination brought about largely by religion?

Jimmy, please just let being the worst president in the history of the republic be enough.. and just shut up.

#111 | Posted by nmg_no

Okay, that makes four votes for female subservience. I'm now taking bets on how high the number will go.

There is value to the Bible if used properly.

Much like a car antenna... with great power comes great responsibility.

and just shut up.

#111 | Posted by nmg_no

when you become President you will be his equal and you then can tell him to shut up. Until then why don't YOU shut up until you have something intelligent to add to the conversation?

Carter finally comes out and says it! The Bible is NOT the Inerrant Word of God!

It wasn't until the fourth century that dominant Christian leaders, all men, twisted and distorted holy scriptures to perpetuate their ascendant positions within the religious hierarchy.

Hmmm I have been saying this for years... Me thinks a lot of things were twisted and distorted. This is my entire issue in a nut shell (a peanut shell!).

I also think that Gospel of Thomas is a very interesting book and I wonder why that if these are writings are of Thomas, who was a disciple of Jesus, they are not part of the NT.

Regardless, I am happy to see that Carter, who is a religious person of some stature (regardless what the rethugs say here), is brave enough to stand up to the "church" and make an issue of this for the sake of women everywhere. And from Vern & NANC comments I can see that as usual they are NOT listening and are fine examples of how the religious fundamentalist tyrants will fight this all the way to the gates of hell (which I believe are in Pakistan).

"There is value to the Bible if used properly."

Especially when a Sears catalog isn't handy.

CARTER is one of the bravest public figures ever!

CARTER is one of the bravest public figures ever!

#116 | Posted by Bani at 2009-07-14 05:23 PM | Reply

Yes, unless he is facing a giant bunny rabbit.

CARTER is one of the bravest public figures ever!

#116 | Posted by Bani

which was another reason to not invite him to the Denver Convention last summer...

Donnerboy: Carter isn't standing up where it counts, which would in my mind be where the greatest marginalization of the female of our species is occurring-the middle east.

I mean, big deal. he stood up to the baptist church? So fuckin what????

A bunny rabbit. ROFLMAO

mmmmmmmmmm bible love connection pt 2

#73 | Posted by truthhurts at 2009-07-14 11:46 AM | Reply |

You should read those with 70s porn music in the background. Instant underground success.

______________________
There is value to the Bible if used properly.

Much like a car antenna... with great power comes great responsibility.

#113 | Posted by ZombieHunter at 2009-07-14 05:13 PM | Reply |

That my friend, is fucking funny.

. . . . when you become President you will be his equal and you then can tell him to shut up. Until then why don't YOU shut up until you have something intelligent to add to the conversation?

#114 | Posted by donnerboy at 2009-07-14 05:18 PM | Reply | Flag: Well that pretty much shuts you the fuck up on any Bush threads now doesn't it????

"There is value to the Bible if used properly."

Especially when a Sears catalog isn't handy.

#115 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2009-07-14 05:19 PM | Reply

Funny flag

Carter stands up to the large bunny rabbit

Still rolling on the floor . . .

In my house my husband is head of our household as Scripture states he should be. We discuss family/household issues, he takes my opinion seriously and then makes a decision. I trust his judgement.

He is our spiritual leader, our strength, he wears the pants in our family and I respect him for everything he does.

Part of the problem today is that women want to take control and wear the pants, they don't trust their husbands to make good decisions for their family.

The other part of the problem is that most men let their wives take control....less responsibility for them then.

#125: You don't mind him jacking off in the shower while picturing your neighbors wife then do you?

Honestly, are you for real?

Go get your burka out of the closet and wear it with pride.

Any asshole tries to subjugate my daughters the way your tribal leader is subjugating you will face me!!

But youve made your choice.

#125 | Posted by Lisa at 2009-07-14 05:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

Countdown till libtard crucifixion...3...2...1...

#126 | Posted by boojiboy

You would be all for her having abortion on demand though bboy. The intolerance is blinding today.

#127: Sorry, this rtard beat em to it!!!

PS: How high off of her head do you think her bee-hive hairdo goes????

#126

Your post is ridiculous. This isn"t about a man walking all. Over a woman. This isn't about immoral sexual behavior.

The Bible says "Husbands love your wives". He does that. Since when we marry, we are suppose to become One, if he makes decisions that would hurt me, he also hurts himself. He hasn't done that. And he won't.

We work elbow to elbow around the house. He helps make dinner. We enjoy doing evertthing together.

I have complete faith in his love, concern and making decisions that are best for our family.What's wrong with that?

Elcid: Nope, just feel sorry for any daughters in that household. Don't post if you can't take the heat.

Lisa the very concept that there is a leader in a marriage abhors me. My wife and I are equals, and that is the example I give my daughters.

BBOY:

You need to understand the meaning of "submissive" as it relates to the Bible.

I am not a second class citizen in my home. Most times my husband takes my advice.but when he doesn't, I trust his judgement. Does your wife trust yours?

BTW I don't have a beehive hairdo. It's very modern.

So Lisa, I assume you do not teach in your church either, correct?

He was a fucking southern baptist for 60 years. Some character there...NOT!!!!!

BBOY:

My husband and I are partners both contributing, both doing what's best for our family, both following God's instruction, living our lives as we should.

It's wonderful!!

My wife and I talk it all out. That is the way it works. But at an impasse we consider the best path together. It sounds to me like you let him have the last word. How convenient for him.

Sorry about the hairdo, it was just the mental image I had when I read what you wrote.

A woman isn't suppose to be a leader of a Church, Letus...but to teach children in a classroom is different.

Yes, unless he is facing a giant bunny rabbit.

It wasn't a giant bunny fool it was a Killer Rabbit!

Jimmy Carter is like what Joe Biden would be if he had a brain.

BBOY:

Nothing is convinient for him. He's selfless...not selfish.

A man is suppose to be the leader of his family, protector, bread winner, etc.. That is a huge responsibility. A woman is a caregiver, nurturer, homemaker. Both have different roles that compliment each other.

Lisa, Lisa, Lisa, You are marginalizing both of the sexes her. A man does this, a woman does that. And its all because the bible tells me so.

Don't you think the Taliban read their Koran with equal fundamental conviction?

to me its a cop out to fall back on the literal written word.

I think God expects better of us, wants us to evolve.

Oops, did I say evolve??? Sorry Lisa, can't do much evolving in 6000 years of creation can you

BBOY:

A cop out??

Well, call it want you wish, it's the way it's supposed to be. People have commented on our marriage asking what we do that makes it work. My beighbor said we have what everyone wants....can't be too. much of a cop out for anything can it.

I'm very proud of our marriage despite what anyone says.

Its the way its supposed to be for you, fine.

Just hope that if your daughters follow in your path, they choose wisely. Known a fair number of women who weren't so lucky who placed complete faith in their man and were made fools by said man.

And my point is that fundamentalism, the proscribed written word is the single most dangerous issue facing mankind. People do some pretty terrible things to each other in the name of the lord/allah whatever you want to call the guy.

Yes, it works for us BBOY;

We are two imperfect people who love each other perfectly.

You seriously think that the words in the Bible are the greatest problem we face today??

The greatest command is love one another!!

I admit there are extremists but I would raise an eyebrow as to what really lies in their heart. "You shall know them from their fruit"...in other words deeds.,.If one truely follows the Word, there is no. Hate to do anything horrible to anyone.

Extremists who use the literal word to further their agenda. This is fundamentalism. Any religion.

Fundamentalists want us teaching creationism in classrooms, that is dangerous.

Fundamentalists in the middle east believe infidels are not given the same rights as 'believers' that is dangerous.

I could go on.

Anytime there is encroachment on the separation of church and state there is danger. Any time one individul approaches another saying that their faith makes them superior 'saved' I worry.

Anyway, I thought this thread was about Peanuts breaking with the baptist faith on this issue????

There Jimmy Carter was, staring down the great beast of the Baptist Church. Along came a giant bunny . . .

Lisa,

"Part of the problem today is that women want to take control and wear the pants, they don't trust their husbands to make good decisions for their family."

I understand where you're coming from. As a Christian, I respect and honor your views.

However, as an older Christian, my views have evolved.

For example...resting on the Sabbath.

What exactly is "rest"? If a man works in construction, then refraining from physical labor would be how he might rest.

However, if a man is a programmer, perhaps he should refrain from writing code, and perhaps he might find working in the yard enjoyable, and restful.

You see...I believe the laws given to us in the Bible are for our benefit and are not intended to simply be a bunch of rules to be followed blindly.

Am I saying there are exceptions to the rules or it's ok to break the rules? Well...not exactly. What I am saying is that these rules might be applied to different people in different ways.

In other words, there are Godly couples who have reversed roles. Perhaps the woman takes on a more dominate position, and the man might be more passive.

Would that be sin in the eyes of God? I don't think so.

What works for you and your husband might not work for other couples.

Or...how about this?

Are you comfortable with the idea of women teaching Sunday School in church? You most likely are. Why? Because you've seen it's practical and, frankly, Apostle Paul wasn't exactly correct in his views towards women.

You see...I don't worship Apostle Paul or the Bible. I worship Jesus Christ.

Relax and enjoy the experience of being a Christian. You don't have to be perfect.

Just forgiven.

Bill Johnson,

Good thought provoking post!

Regarding working on the Sabath:

Even Jesus pulled a mule out of a ditch on the Sabath. Was that considered working?

I respect your views as well however, I have a question for you regarding your comment about Paul and his views on women being wrong. Since God told Paul what to write, are you implying that God was wrong as well?

God is all knowing so I trust in his command on how to conduct a marriage. You are right, some marriages function well with the women taking charge. But how much better would it be if those marriages were functioning as God instructed? I'm not trying to be insulting or self rightious, I'm just giving my views regarding marriage as stated in the Bible.

Forgiveness...such a wonderful liberating word!!!

And you are right...we are not perfect but we can love perfectly, unconditionally.

That too is a wonderful feeling!!!

Lisa,

"Since God told Paul what to write, are you implying that God was wrong as well?"

You are assuming Apostle Paul was perfect or was able to express God's will perfectly. God gives us words, but it's never perfect.

I believe Jesus Christ was perfect, not Apostle Paul.

Nothing Paul ever did was perfect, and that includes his letters.

Not all Christians believe the Bible is the infallible word of God.

I do not believe the Bible is an all inclusive account of man's relationship with God, and I do not believe any translation represents the perfect will of God.

I do not believe English is the official Christian language (as would be implied by those who only read the King James translation) and I do not believe the Bible is finished being written.

I believe God is still revealing Himself to man.

#150 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2009-07-14 10:09 PM | Reply | Flag: God has five seconds to blow me or you should kill yourself as soon as possible, Bill.

Time's up, Bill.
Hopefully we won't have to wade through any more of your imbecilic shit again.

Phoenix, The entire premise of modern feminism has NOTHING to do with free will.

Modern Feminism is based solely on the firm belief that there is no such thing as a Chick Flick...#20 | Posted by USAF242

Link? Citation?

Or are you just working really hard for a funny flag?

I think a lot of woman who believe in EQUAL rights hesitate to be labelled as a feminist because of the man-hating stereotype.

Yes, absolutely.

And the crazy extremists get the most attention because they're the loudest they've twisted the general perception of feminism. -- #35 | Posted by astrobuckeye

What crazy extremists? Can you name the man-hating feminist(s) you have in mind?

I don't think it's feminists -- even "extreme" or "radical" feminists who have twisted the general perception of feminism. I think people who are afraid of women have created a bogeyman, in the same way that people afraid of blacks told fanciful stories about African-Americans stealing your women and taking over the country if you -- heavens forfend! -- allowed them to vote.

Jimmy Carter is a Fucking Joke and will go down in History as the Second worst President in History after the imposter obama.

I believe God is still revealing Himself to man.

#150 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2009-07-14 10:09 PM

Sure he is.

In a airport men's room.

But at an impasse we consider the best path together.

Then you're not at an impasse. You're still involved in the decision making process. At an impasse, the person who wears the pants in the family makes a decision while everyone else remains indecisive.

Since you obviously don't wear the pants in the family, I'm going to guess the wife makes the decisions at times like these.

#150...Bill:

No, Paul was not perfect but God is perfecct. :He spoke to the prophets, instructing them what to write so we have a book of lessons, commands AND God's will for us to learn. Why would God give us a book to follow His expectations of us but allow it be written with inconsistancies?

The translation of The Bible into English is a concern for some however, if you take different versions and open them to the same book, chapter and verse, although the verbage may be slightly different, the MEANING is still the same. For it is written " no word of man nor stroke of pen will ever change the MEANING of these words".

All to often people take something from the Bible and come up with their own translation. They pick and choose what they want to believe is meant instead of using their Bible to translate itself for them....hence the discussion of "submission".

No, no one was perfect who walked this earth but Jesus but we were given God's perfect Word.

Nice post, Lisa.

Lisa's attitude reminds of poetry and platitudes.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. You can expose Lisa to the benefits of 21st century emancipation, but you can't make her shed the burqa.

"If you tell me the oxen are kneeling in the barn, I will go with you hoping that it may be so."

And "the infant child is not aware it has been eaten by the bear." herm

For Pete's sake, Herm!

Lisa is very far from supporting the burqua.

Lisa is very far from supporting the burqua.

Indeed

Now Nanc or even McAnkles, not so sure...

For Pete's sake, Herm!

Lisa is very far from supporting the burqua.

On second thought after reading Herm's comment his analogy is pretty much right on.

We're all entitled to our own beliefs with accompanying burdens. In Lisa's case it's not per say a burka but it is illustrated in other manners.

Herm:

I do not support women beibg treated as second class citizens. If you truly believe that you haven't read anything I have said in the years that I have been coming here.

In fact, you must not have read what I have stated in this thread alone. Try it again!

Zap? You sincerely shock me if you agree with Herm.

Funny, I thought I would take more flack from the women here, not the men.

Then go marry god.

What crazy extremists? Can you name the man-hating feminist(s) you have in mind?

Gloria Alred comes to mind.

Funny, I thought I would take more flack from the women here, not the men.

You gotta remember you're dealing with liberal "men", though.

Zap? You sincerely shock me if you agree with Herm.
~Lisa

I believe perhaps I am wrong but Herm's use of Burka had no relevance to women being second class citizens. The relevance in my mind was burden put upon by a faith in a divine entity.

Another take perhaps Herm was eluding to the Southern Baptist's using their understanding of the bible in instituting Female Subservience.

I don't believe the Southern Baptist's wear burka's but it sure sounds like the same intent as Muslums it's really just a question of Degree.

The translation of The Bible into English is a concern for some however, if you take different versions and open them to the same book, chapter and verse, although the verbage may be slightly different, the MEANING is still the same. For it is written " no word of man nor stroke of pen will ever change the MEANING of these words".
~Lisa

I don't think you could be more wrong with this statement. First the bible has been compiled and translated not from one form but multitudes and it is on going. It has been fit and sized to accommodate who ever wanted to make a a change either with malice or not. There is no one editor or overseer as much as you want to believe there is.

I don't want to start a very boaring find the pope in the pizza contest of listing bible hickups but as you are well aware there are very many and many are quite scary.

I thought I would take more flack from the women here, not the men. -- #164 | Posted by Lisa

Why? The issue that comes to mind when I read your posts is the separation of church and state. That's not a gender issue.

FWIW my Mom shares many of your beliefs and has made choices very similar to yours. I disagree with her often, but respect the choices she has made for herself. She'd probably be up for a daughter-swap, though, if your parents are amenable. :-)

In my house my husband is head of our household as Scripture states he should be. We discuss family/household issues, he takes my opinion seriously and then makes a decision. I trust his judgement.

He is our spiritual leader, our strength, he wears the pants in our family and I respect him for everything he does.

Part of the problem today is that women want to take control and wear the pants, they don't trust their husbands to make good decisions for their family.

The other part of the problem is that most men let their wives take control....less responsibility for them then.

#125 | Posted by Lisa

must be nice to run from responsibility like that.

Lisa is right that the overall meaning of the core fundamentals of these texts hasn't changed, but Zap is correct that translations vary and the meaning of individual words and phrases are translated differently by different scholars.

For example, the NT has Jesus going around like some effervescent fairy godmother repeatedly saying, "Be of good cheer!", when the correct translation is, "Courage!" or "Have courage!", as in be not afraid.

That isn't really too significant and doesn't change the theology.

But in other cases, such as the admonition to "examine oneself" in the taking of communion is far off the mark. There are other instances where self-examination as to whether one is in the faith or not is suggested, but this one is a misnomer because the the last thing required for communion is self-examination.

Also, "no word of man nor stroke of pen will ever change the MEANING of these words" is at the end of Revelations and is a part of that book, not the whole NT just because it is the last book.

Martin Luther said of the letter written by James that, "it is a wispy little epistle, without a word of gospel in it".

And it is my opinion that the God of the OT and NT would not have the number of 66 books in any compilation he personally oversaw.

I don't recall a lot of libtards criticizing Carter for keeping membership in the Southern Baptist Convention, but see a lot of them celebrating his departure.

LOL. Libbies can do no wrong, EVER, among their fellow retards.

A man is suppose to be ....

says who?

great if your marriage works for you, everyone has to find a situation that works for them, but it is just plain wrong to express your situation as a universal truth.

However, it must be nice to not to have to worry about decisions, let it up to your "partner" trusting he has your best interests at heart. that is kind of childish. Stand up like and adult and accept responsibility.

Marriage is about parntership. all important decisions have to be made together, that and honesty are the foundations of a healthy marriage.

When one side shirks their responsibilities, anything from household chores to decision making to child rearing, the other side will become resentful, it is natural as the one party will feel put upon, taken advantage of, neglected. For some this disfunction works.

In my house my husband is head of our household as Scripture states he should be.

the Scriptures being written at a time when women were slightly more valued than cattle.

See my above quotes from the bible about finding a wife.

my favorite is the 200 foreskins for a wife.

Exodus 22:16-17 is a real good one. If a man sleeps with an unwed virgin, he must marry her. But if her father refuses to give her to the man, then the man must pay the "pay money according to the dowry of virgins"... is this crazy or what? I can see it now...

Man: Hi sir, I just shtooked your virgin daughter, and now must marry her.

Father: There is no way my little girl is marrying you, punk!

Man: Okay, well then here's the $5 I have to give you then.

Father: YAY!!!

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (American Standard Version)

34 let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law.

35 And if they would learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home: for it is shameful for a woman to speak in the church.

Genesis 12:11-16 (New International Version)
11 As he was about to enter Egypt, he said to his wife Sarai, "I know what a beautiful woman you are. 12 When the Egyptians see you, they will say, 'This is his wife.' Then they will kill me but will let you live. 13 Say you are my sister, so that I will be treated well for your sake and my life will be spared because of you."

14 When Abram came to Egypt, the Egyptians saw that she was a very beautiful woman. 15 And when Pharaoh's officials saw her, they praised her to Pharaoh, and she was taken into his palace. 16 He treated Abram well for her sake, and Abram acquired sheep and cattle, male and female donkeys, menservants and maidservants, and camels.

I don't recall a lot of libtards criticizing Carter for keeping membership in the Southern Baptist Convention, but see a lot of them celebrating his departure.

#173 | Posted by rightisright

Since he left the SBC 9 years ago, how would you know whether any of us celebrated his departure, or criticized his membership. Even Hans couldn't produce a pre-Drudgian post.

Men are to be the spiritual leaders of their family. I fail to see what is wrong with that.

And notice that "subjection" is in reference to spirituality...not meaning to be a slave to their husbands.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get my burka out of the dryer before it wrinkles.I'm not permitted to use modern appliances and heating a metal plate in a fire is a pain! (Rolls eyes)

Since he left the SBC 9 years ago, how would you know whether any of us celebrated his departure, or criticized his membership. Even Hans couldn't produce a pre-Drudgian post.

#179 | Posted by SanAntonioRogue
* * * *

I dunno. He was in the SBC for 60 years. Is he stupid? A slow learner?

I know what I think. The SBC hasn't changed their view of women in leadership; apparently Jimmy Carter has. Or maybe he's just another political opportunist, like BHO, who uses his religious "faith"--such as it is--as a rolling photo op.

Or maybe he's just another political opportunist, like BHO...

#181 | Posted by rightisright

Yeah, that must be it. He's a political opportunist.

Sheesh.

No! Not Jimmah! A political whore who sits in a church for 60 years because it's politically expedient to do so in the deep South?!?!?! Say it ain't so!!!!

LOL. You're funny.

60 years, and now he claims to be part of a group of "elders". He knows best, you know.

Lisa sit down and shut up! The men are talking about this here. You need to defer to our more powerful spirits!

And notice that "subjection" is in reference to spirituality...not meaning to be a slave to their husbands.Not according to what i read in the bible. See Post 117 1 Corinthians.

I think it means all women sit down and shut up in church. That means they are NOT equal and they have no say in the little matter of religion. Am I wrong? I have talked to many male Christians and their wives about this issue. The good Christian wives always defer to the male for the answer.

Silly Xtians! Do Christians really believe that there will be sex in "heaven"? You won't even have a body. You can't be male or female. Apparently you can't even get INTO heaven until you figure that out.

Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

Gospel of Thomas

So, why should a female "spirit" be any less equal than my "spirit" just because mine landed in a male body?

When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom].

......holy shit.....we're all gonna become Dom Delouise.....

......holy shit.....we're all gonna become Dom Delouise.....

Or Hermaphrodites!

Or Hermaphrodites!
....#186 | Posted by donnerboy

.....so if we get to heaven and God tells us to go fuck ourselves.......we'll just have to comply....

This thread is probably the most fun I have ever had on Drudge Retort.

Special thanks to Lisa for demonstrating through her patience what a true Christian is all about.

When do we start the next Crusade to the Holyland????

Lisa sit down and shut up! The men are talking about this here. You need to defer to our more powerful spirits!

LOL I dare you say that to her in person...

Hey, you got your wish, Reagan took over in 1980. We are dealing with the aftermath of his presidency to this very day. I wonder what our history would have been like had we followed Carter's plan to get off imported oil??? I KNOW it would be better than the history we actually lived.

#11 | Posted by danni

Is that all you ever say? And I will ask you again. How could it be Reagan's fault when he inherited a horrible economy from Carter? Carter was responsible for the beginning of outsourcing, gas shortages, mile high interest rates, and an America that just didn't feel good about itself. Reagan changed all that. You are completely wrong to say this is Reagan's fault when Carter had so much more to do with destroying America.

Donner:

Thanks for the giggle.

BBoy:

Thank you, that is a great compliment. I do not take credit though...it's through God that I have learned.patience.

There was a time a couple of years ago where I was not a good witness to God, allowing the hatefulness of others to work through me, influencing me. I take the responsibility though and made changes in my life and returned to being true to myself. I displayed horrific behavior at times right here on this site. I am ashamed of that behavior of.past.I will not respond to those here who try to bait me to becoming angry, using foul language and hateful name calling. I have no place for that in my life.

I have enjoyed the conversation as well. So thank you for being a part of that.

Zap:

LOL...I think he was trying to be funny. At least I hope so!!

Jimmy's at it again. See "Breakthrough Made in Early Alzheimer's Detection" on today's Retort.

ha, ha 38-18-60

#184 Donnerboy> I think it means all women sit down and shut up in church

What you 'think' it means is irrelevant. Biblical interpretation is not determined by an individual's own personal opinion (especially one backed up by nothing). Did you take the verse out of context? Was Paul talking about women in a specific church or churches in general?

>Do Christians really believe that there will be sex in "heaven"?

I think you meant 'gender' and the answer is: we don't know. Jesus did say that people in the resurrection would be "like angels" but he never clarified what exactly that meant.

>You won't even have a body.

Wrong again.

>Apparently you can't even get INTO heaven until you figure that out.

Well, it's not apparent to a wide body of Biblical experts ... who didn't know that the point you brought up can keep people out of heaven or allow them entrance to it.

Quoting the Gospel of Thomas as authoritative means you accept a book that was rejected by early church leaders and almost all Christians since then.

-----------------

Thanks to Lisa for her intelligent posts about her faith and Christian practice. It was truly a breath of fresh air among the standard DR stuff!

-Did you take the verse out of context? Was Paul talking about women in a specific church or churches in general?

Bingo!

Nothing funnier than an atheist like Twoofy quoting scripture.

"you accept a book that was rejected by early church leaders"

#194 | Posted by AKat at 2009-07-15 03:17 PM | Reply | Flag: Doesn't know when the text was found (1945).

"Nothing funnier than an atheist like Twoofy quoting scripture."

#195 | Posted by Corky at 2009-07-15 03:22 PM | Reply | Flag: Except for a superstitious idiot like Corky.

"When this Coptic version of the complete text of Thomas was found, scholars realized that three separate portions of a Greek version of it had already been discovered in Oxyrhynchus, Egypt, in 1897[1]."

always a problem when pushing only begottenism...

#197 Zatoichi> That's a bit after the Council of Nicea, moron.

Um, there was more than one council at Nicea and many other church councils gathered to make decisions on church matters (covering a few centuries, btw). Sitting on my nightstand is "Christianity Through The Centuries" by Earle E. Cairns and I've read several chapters in the past week. Care to give me your source for the misdirection above?

And if you think the Gospel of Thomas was unknown (since it was written) until 1945, you need to read a LOT more of early church history.

Zatoichi, here are a *few* of the church councils:

Jerusalem, Arles, Nicaea (at least 2), Carthage, Constantinople (at least 2), Ephesus, Chalcedon, Lateran (several), Pisa, Constance, Basel, etc.

Several recent authors have discussed such councils, especially where they accepted or rejected books as Church Canon (ie authorized), in detail. Most were motivated by the "Da Vinci Code" movie and it's reporting of fiction as fact.

Most were motivated by the "Da Vinci Code" movie and it's reporting of fiction as fact.

Posted by AKat

"My decision to sever my ties with the Southern Baptist Convention, after six decades, was painful and difficult. It was, however, an unavoidable decision when th e convention's leaders, quoting a few carefully selected Bible verses and claiming that Eve was created second to Adam and was responsible for original sin, ordained that women must be "subservient" to their husbands and prohibited from serving as deacons, pastors or chaplains in the military service." JC

"Da Vinci Code" did open people's eyes abit, though...

What you 'think' it means is irrelevant.

Then you immediately launch into what YOU think as though it is more important somehow..illogical but nicely done KAT.

glad to hear that God doesn't care what I think. So He won't be bothering me with any silly questions after I die right? Cause what I think does not really matter.

oh and that part about the body is hilarious if you think about it too much. Which body do you get? The little baby body, the teenage body or the old crippled wrinkled one? Who gets to chose? You or Jesus. And why would I need a body in HEAVEN anyway? You guys are so funny!

Oh and BTW I "accept" none of those books as "authoritative" of anything. They are interesting in their perspectives on the Spiritual Universe but that is about it. None are the WORDS OF A GOD. I do like Thomas because it looks like a book of Jesus quotes to me. So you are saying that it is NOT valid but say Mathew Mark and Luke are? Why because the Council of Nicaea says so? What makes them any more valid? The Gospels were written by anonymous authors not by the disciples themselves. It is thought that Thomas was written by Judas the brother of Jesus. I would think (if I was allowed to) that would make it MORE valid. But, what do I know and who cares! You know the Council of Bishops did not know the "answers" to many questions like whether Jesus is God (how could you know that?) or when he became a Zombie (resurrected) so they just voted. Real Authority there!

And yet you defer to them as "Authoritative" on these matters. Well, I guess that settles it then. But, wait, what about all my questions? Oh yeah, What I "think" doesn't matter. I forgot.

Church people really are very funny. Funny as in strange though.

LOL I dare you say that to her in person...

#189 | Posted by Zap

I wouldn't dare!

I think LISA knows I was only joking to make a point.

Except for a superstitious idiot like Corky.

#198 | Posted by Zatoichi

The blind swordsman leading the blind soulless.

#203 Donnerboy> Then you immediately launch into what YOU think as though it is more important somehow..illogical but nicely done KAT.

Biblical interpretation is about what the AUTHOR says: context, intended audience, original language (or as close to it as we can get), the passage a quote is taken from, why they are writing, etc. ... ALL play a vital part. The two key questions any reader should ask of a biblical passage is:

1. What does it say?

2. What doesn't it say?

Sometimes the latter is much more important than the former. When I say something about the Bible and "we don't know", it means exactly that: it ain't in there.

> And yet you defer to them as "Authoritative" on these matters.

I never said I agreed or disagreed with the church councils. Many/most Christian variants DO accept what they said as valid and authoritative, just stating something that I thought was obvious.

And for a completely contrary view (from mine), look as the method and findings of the Jesus Seminar.

Lisa,

The Bible we have today is the product of revisions and modifications.

The early scribes added, deleted and changed the written word from the original text. Were their changes divinely inspired, too?

In fact, it has been discovered the most earliest manuscripts do not include Jesus saying, 'Let Him Who Is Without Sin Cast the First Stone' at all.

Of course, theologians are debating this and are coming to some consensus how this may have happened.

My point is this.

Do you honestly believe here in 2009, Christians today are the final authority of The Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Do you not believe in years and decades to come, Christians then will differ from Christians today, just like Christians today radically differ from Christians of bygone centuries. Will Christians of the future be more enlightened, or less enlightened?

Stepping off the beaten path is frightening for some Christians. I know. I was afraid when I was younger.

Former President Carter has made a big step by leaving the Southern Baptist.

You see, I am a member of a Southern Baptist church myself and I know what they teach.

I don't agree with them anymore, either.

"Most were motivated by the "Da Vinci Code" movie and it's reporting of fiction as fact."

It's funny how so many people have decided to believe this story is true, before they even believed the Bible in the first place.

I've heard it said, satan doesn't care WHAT you believe, so long as you reject Jesus.

Satan is a myth for stupid people.

OMGosh Bill...lol...slow down!

Do I believe Christians are the final authority of The Gospel of Jesus christ?

I believe the Bible was given to us by the Prophets who were instructed to write the Word of God by God.

I believe that God is the ultimate authority of Jesus.

Being a Christian, I try to be a witness of God's word and instruction.

Do I think that Christians in the future will differ from Christians today? That depends. There are a lot of people who profess to be Christians but don't behave as such, don't really even know what the Bible really says.it is just a book on their coffee table that needs dusting once a week. I used to be a lukewarm Christian myself. So to answer that question, I pray Christians in the future are stronger than some of us are in our faith today.

Satan seems to be working overtime and has wrapped sin in beautiful packaging to side step Christians.I am sure that is true for our past generations as well.

I am Italian so I was raised Catholic. I have gone to numerous services of all denominations but have found a nondenominational church that strictly teaches from the Bible allowing the Bible to interperate itself instead of men.

Did I forget anything??

I believe that God is the ultimate authority of Jesus.

Kinda like an LLC?

Did I forget anything??

#210 | Posted by Lisa

Plenty. Lisa do you feel you are a good representative of Christianity? I believe I am an excellent judge of people's shortcomings. Even though I have very few I can easily point out others.

Hey chickenshit!

Howya doin'??

Pussed out on anyone else lately?

"jimmy carter: best president ever"
-me
"jimmy carter: worst president ever"
-people who hate peace and love and the earth

"jimmy carter: worst president ever"
-people who hate peace and love and the earth

Yet another in the seemingly endless stream of people who say, "If you don't agree with me, you are full of hate"

*sigh*

Grow up -- OK? Some people have different opinions about people and things than you. That does not mean they hate peace and love and the earth. Geez

Satan is a myth for stupid people.

A myth that stupid people make real...

"Satan is a myth for stupid people."

A myth that stupid people make real...

#216 | Posted by Reverend ZombieHunter

Positive spiritual doctrine can be beneficial to society. However, any doctrine that preaches women are subservient to, or possess less worth than, a man sounds a bit like that religious doctrine that has stifled the Middle East.

UP:

The Bible does NOT say that women are subservient or have less value than a man.

we have different roles, different strengths. That is why when two are united in marriage, they become one....complimenting each other.

I have never been made to feel that I have lesser value than a man.

When do we start the next Crusade to the Holyland????
......#188 | Posted by boojiboy

....when we finish with the last two to Iraq and Afghanistan.....

......and after our great-grandchildren are finished paying the bills for them........

Lisa,

"Do I believe Christians are the final authority of The Gospel of Jesus christ?"

That's not what I meant.

I will reword it.

Do you believe here in 2009, the Christians who currently are alive today know all there is to know about the will of God?

I mean...I suspect most Christians today believe they are more enlightened than Christians, say, 500 years ago.

So...is it your opinion that today's Christians are the final authority on biblical interpretations. The Christians of the future will not be more enlightened than Christians of today?

I realize some Christians fear change, always suspecting it will lead to more evil. You were raised Catholic. How about the Reformation? Was it just "beautiful packaging"?

Naturally, atheists and non-believers don't even accept the very premise of what we believe, but I am directing this at you.

You see...there are indeed absolutes where there is no room for debate. I won't get into those here.

However, your suggestion that women "should" accept the role you believe is best for all women, is troublesome to me.

There are some problems with the Bible and certainly the role of wifes and women, in general, is an issue.

The restrictions put upon women by some Christian churches only serves to needlessly drive both men and women away from The Church.

Hi Bill, nice to see you here again.

Ok, let's start that over.

Right off the bat I'm going to have to say that we disagree regarding the Bible. I don't believe God would put us here, give us a book on lessons, how He expects us to live our lives and then it is has flaws...problems in it as you stated.

As I mentioned before the verbage may be different I different Bibles but the meaning is the same.I believe it was written exactly as God instructed.

As for Churchs that restrict women, I don't feel restricted at all. Men are to be the leaders as Christ was the leader of the Church. No one had to tell me that, I read it myself.

Some Churches, like some people, read and make their own interpretation. If one understands their Bible, Scripture interprets Scripture. It does that to eliminate the need for guessing what is meant...for man to make up their own rules as many Churches do.

On to your question..no. I do not think all Christians know all they need to know about the Will of God. I think in todays world more focus is placed on this world rather than the next. Remember the phrase ...if it feels good do it?? That's part of the reason.

As for being raised Catholic, Bill...I remember being a kid in CCD, must have been in 5th or 6th grade and my teacher told us if we follow the ten commandments we will go to Heaven. I raised my hand and asked...if there was something we could do to get to Heaven, then why did Jesus suffer and die for us. I was met with a glare.

To answer another of your questions... I don't mean to insult my Catholic friends here but I believe that religion is full of rules and traditions that go against Scripture. I would be lying to say otherwise.

Lisa,

"I don't believe God would put us here, give us a book on lessons, how He expects us to live our lives and then it is has flaws"

Christians through the ages have agreed, through a variety of means, to believe the current books of the Bible represent our faith and provides the basic foundation of who we are.

It has evolved and is still evolving.

Everything is open to interpretation. The Book of Revelation saying not to add or take away from what is written, is debated. Did John? mean the entire Bible, or just the Book of Revelation. And let's not get into who has thought it should be excluded all together.

I agree the original Greek and Hebrew texts could be totally inspired by God. However, it is impossible to convey 100% of every single word and verse, from any language to another. There is simply never enough exact words and phases to match 100% perfectly from one language to another consistently throughout.

Sure, the degree of accuracy is in the high 90 percentile. But, my point is it's not 100% exact. It can't be. Thus, it's not perfect.

Once you reach that point, you no longer get upset about supposed inconsistencies in the Bible (sure...they exist), or teachings that simply don't work and have ended up being ignored all together by modern man.

So...that is why I believe what I do.

Back to the topic of this thread. President Carter has made a major proclamation and will undergo a LOT of condemnation by the people who feel they have been rejected.