murphy - we know a guy drawing ssi who does this, but to get a ride to town 35 miles away - he did it 17 times in a month - they know what he's up to, but it's the boy crying wolf syndrome. which is living proof that a person playing retarded knows how to milk the system.

I don't know how the system is supposed to stop this?

Make a law and then arrest them?

Then they are put up in jail!

How about post their name and picture in the paper and internet!

"LOOK AT THE FRAUD MORON WHO COST YOU $800.00 for the Ambulance and $600.00 for the ER visit!!!"

---------

There was a gal in Oregon who called 911 to get a ride to the hospital because she had a yeast infection and didn't want to wait.

Like she couldn't go to the store and get a Monistat fix herself--just as fast and not waste taxpayers time and money.

Like she couldn't go to the store and get a Monistat fix herself

Or take advantage of her little bio-project and bake bread.

Are you kidding Murph??

That's nuts. All she needed was some vinegar and water.

Maybe they need to find a halfway house for these bums so they can get their act together. If they get off the drugs and alcohol they could actually be productive members of society.

#4 | Posted by Lisa

FF for INWI !!

She would still have to go to the store for the vinegar!

#3 | Posted by goatman at 2009-07-13 10:44 PM | Reply | Flag:FF...and then the yuck factor kicked in

This is nothing new. I was an EMT in Tallahassee in the late '70s and it happened then, too.

Our regulars were mostly Vietnam vets living on the streets, so we were pretty tolerant about giving them a hot and a cot.

wait'll nhs kicks in - it will be bums on steroids at all the eeerrr's!

And Obama Wants You to Pay for It!

Sincerely

A WingDing Who Doesn't Comprehend that EVERY Premium Payer IS ALREADY PAYING FOR IT at an UN-NEGOTIATED RATE!

ER Fakers aka illegals and assorted minorities.

"Robert" from Midtown is a minority? Who knew? (Sounds more like a WPOD to me.)

Any statistics on this kind of thing before and after Reagan emptied out the mental hospitals? I'm sure the ER abuse went up afterward. So did Reagan save us money? Probably cost us more money. You pay for it one way or the other, which is better? Well, whichever puts more money into the politicians' buddies pockets, I suppose.

101shitborne seems to disregard that the vast majority of welfare recipients and people generally on the take in this country are white.

Syphilis is a bitch, eh 101?

Axe you silly little stooge...What percentage of the US population are white, and what percentage is black? What percentage of welfare recipients are black?

Have an adult help you out, stupid.

My brother and SO are both nurses. From talking to them I'd guess pain-pill-seekers contribute about as much to the problem as the homeless. Folks come in with a "10" pain level in their "stomach" and force the ER people to run a gauntlet of expensive needless tests that turn out to prove all the patient needs is a good rehab program and a kick in the nuts. They have no insurance, no medical history at the ER, have been banned by doctors and clinics all over town, and through trial and error have learned how the beat the system for their fix.

We have got to find a way to move about 90% of ER patients from hospitals to cheaper walk-in clinics. We've got to find a way to identify all the crazy homeless/junkies and put them on the 'ice flow' route of medical treatment. We have got to find a way to dramatically increase participation in practicing preventative medicine at home or these unhealthy people will kill all of us one frivolous treatment at a time.

If you chose to eat garbage, become an addict, or not exercise the only treatment you get is what you can pay cash for up-front. No insurance or socialized medicine for anyone not willing to help themselves. The hypocratic oath shouldn't apply to people who knowingly harm themselves.

The solution I prefer is impossible, for multiple reasons (some even practical)

I'd like to see that these losers, and anyone like them, be immediately and permanently cut off from ALL health care that they don't pay for up front. And if their money runs out mid-surgery, dump em in the morgue so they don't need to be moved far when they die. Not even pain pills.

The beginning of the problem is that its a sure bet that some of these losers have small children. ALL of them have family. Law suit rich environment if you try and hold them responsible for their actions.

"We have got to find a way to move about 90% of ER patients from hospitals to cheaper walk-in clinics. "

Why don't they build one of those right next to every ER in the country?

Or take advantage of her little bio-project and bake bread.

Bread? How about beer?

Like dogfish head, except... fishier...

you'll eventually get what you pay for.

Bread? How about beer?

#19 | Posted by ZombieHunter

Yeah, I always thought of it as kind of like a micro-brewery.

Just wait until healthcare is "free"

A WingDing Who Doesn't Comprehend that EVERY Premium Payer IS ALREADY PAYING FOR IT at an UN-NEGOTIATED RATE!

#10 | Posted by Redneckville

With "FREE" medical care for all, that will only get worse.

"We have got to find a way to move about 90% of ER patients from hospitals to cheaper walk-in clinics. "

Why don't they build one of those right next to every ER in the country?

#18 | Posted by Danforth

Actually, that sounds like a good idea,.....

......if, and only if, you penalize future abuse of the ER in manner that is SERIOUSLY PAINFUL for someone who is homeless and does not care about anything.

At least half the morons doing the current damage dont give a shit, and dont have any money that can be fined away from them.

Just wait until healthcare is "free"
#22 | Posted by homerj at 2009-07-14 02:31 PM | Reply | Flag: still doesn't get it

They ought to "diagnose" these folks with something that requires some unpleasant tests, like a barium enema.

With "FREE" medical care for all..

Yeah, now it is only "free" to the homeless, addicts, uninsured, and psychotics.

Why don't they build one of those right next to every ER in the country?

#18 | Posted by Danforth

And staff them with physicians from Pakistan because no US trained physician will put up with those patients or the pay.

They ought to "diagnose"

At my brother's hospital they often start with an STD test for suspected pill-fishing. If you're willing to have a 9 inch q-tip rammed up your penis, you're actually in pain and not just jonesin.

They ought to "diagnose" these folks with something that requires some unpleasant tests, like a barium enema.

#26 | Posted by danni

Sometimes I like your evil streak.

If they come in full of liquor they could probably also justify a stomach pump.

With "FREE" medical care for all..

Yeah, now it is only "free" to the homeless, addicts, uninsured, and psychotics.

#27 | Posted by r8rh8r

I guess you don't get it. 45% of the US tax payers don't pay any income tax right now!!! That means I'm paying my share along with someone elses that I don't even know.

45% of the US tax payers don't pay any income tax right now!!!

...and they get "free" medical care (at our expence).

What's your point?

Actualy his point is he is paying my share of income tax right now, if we get "free" medical care he will be paying a portion of that for me as well. Right now I pay for that so he doesn't want to get stuck paying even more for me.

I don't really blame him but what he forgets is that he is paying for all the people who don't pay taxes or medical care anyway so his burden will probably not change much.

I think this is a mutually exclusive problem to our other healthcare problems.

We are going to have homeless folks abusing the system either way.

Yeah, now it is only "free" to the homeless, addicts, uninsured, and psychotics.

#27 | Posted by r8rh8r

you forgot the big one....prison inmates.

Syphilis is a bitch, eh 101?

#14 | Posted by axe

maybe he can get that treated for free in his local ER!

so his burden will probably not change much.

But his standard of living will. I figure most people will find something productive to do with the $1,000+ a month (plus built-in out of pocket medical expenses) they use to send to insurance companies once a month for inadequate coverage. If he runs a business that provides coverage to employees a lot of overhead will disappear overnight, a figure dwarfing any tax break the government could have provided. Again, I figure a company like Microsoft will find a better way to spend the money once used for health insurance. Perhaps a raise? Maybe a new software workshop? A hiring spree?

Not to mention the bloated, fake, extortionist fees hospitals charge will no longer be tolerated. 10K for a CAT scan? Another 3K to have the image read? 247 bucks for a saline IV?

"Care" will finally cost what it actually cost, not what they can get for it.

This is an enightening piece, but these "frequent fliers" are half the story.

The other half is the concerned parent who brings their infant to the ER with a routine ear infection (otitis media).

They ought to "diagnose" these folks with something that requires some unpleasant tests, like a barium enema

I like how you think. But you can't, in terms of medical ethics, do that.

From the article, it looks like these people go to "Hotel ER" because they need a safe place to sleep and a meal that didn't come from a dumpster. Perhaps providing them these amenities, minus the cost of the ER itself, is the way to go.

Can I can get an "amen" from any of the self-proclaimed financial conservatives? Or does your moral disapproval require these people live in the streets and drain the productive half of society's hard-earned wealth with unnecessary ER trips?

"Care" will finally cost what it actually cost, not what they can get for it.

But "care" can be so prohibitively expensive that an insurance model is the only way to make it affordable for anything beyond routine office visits.

Actually I do know how to stop it. And no, you can't arrest them for it, it's IMPOSSIBLE to prove they're faking when the symptoms are self reported and non-provable.

You want to stop an addict or junkie from abusing the system? Third time they call in a year and test positive for drugs and/or alcohol...mandatory hospitalization in a rehab for a month.

That will absolutely stop the abuse. They don't want to give up the bottle. And if they do...better yet, perhaps some of them will recover.

Another way to SERIOUSLY cut down on the abuses? Mental hospitals were largely closed in the 1970s/80s without anything to pick up the slack. A large portion of the homeless population abusing drugs and alcohol are mentally ill. Bring back better hospitalization programs...and consider mandatory medication laws.

People bitch about social welfare programs and don't realize it can save A LOT of money down the line. = Not to mention the human beings it can save too.

I can't afford health insurance, (not complaining at all.) I don't go to the E.R.. I wouldn't unless I was dying. Costs way to much money. Much cheaper to be careful and stay healthy.

It is a little disheartening to think I would get better health care if I didn't contribute to society. Then I remember, "don't share my money, share my work ethic."

People bitch about social welfare programs and don't realize it can save A LOT of money down the line.

I'm pretty much convinced that "conservative" America thinks it's worth it to pay a little extra to keep the poor and the ideologically bankrupt in their place. And thus keep the social divide nice and wide.

Look at the millions in our prisons, the largest prison population in the world. More than China which has 3x our total population.

Like Dorable said, the dissolution of mental health care puts these problems on the streets, and makes them expensive criminal problems and expensive health care problems. But we'd rather punish those who run afoul of societal standards than help them fit in. Even if it costs more.

...pain-pill-seekers contribute about as much to the problem as the homeless. Folks come in with a "10" pain level in their "stomach" and force the ER people to run a gauntlet of expensive needless tests that turn out to prove all the patient needs is a good rehab program and a kick in the nuts.
#16 | Posted by r8rh8r

THIS is by far the biggest single complaint I hear from a few ER physicians I know!

GOV'T-RUN HEALTHCARE CAN FIX THIS TOO
...especially if euthanasia is legalized!

but really:
it's absolutely true.
none of the right-wingers want to hear this, but in many of the countries with universal healthcare they actually have doctors that make house calls (remember those?) and instead of pill-popping fake hypochondriacs wandering into the ER or calling 911 for a headache, these doctors (here they could be EMTs) goto the patient's house, give them some tylenol, and call it a day. no clogging hospital beds, no melodrama, and LESS annoyance to RNs at the ER. it's prudent and good housekeeping for a civilized society, but since all of our greedy politicians get hung up on how to pay for it, you'll never see this kind of common sense applied at the national level. it's too cost-effective.

"Care" will finally cost what it actually cost, not what they can get for it.

Will it really, or will we just not see the bill?

"none of the right-wingers want to hear this, but in many of the countries with universal healthcare they actually have doctors that make house calls (remember those?) and instead of pill-popping fake hypochondriacs wandering into the ER or calling 911 for a headache, these doctors (here they could be EMTs) goto the patient's house, give them some tylenol, and call it a day"

#1 EMTs cannot prescribe more than the Tylenol.

#2 Those calling want a meal and a worm bed for 1+ days not a tylenol

#3 A good bit are seeking pain meds and tylenol won't give them what they want so they will fake illness to get what they want. (A free ride to the hotel for some drugs .. I mean a free ride to the hospital where they might be able to lay their hands on some narcotics)

#4 Doctor's don't make house calls because it doesn't pay any better than office or hospital based work. Moreover who wants to take the risks of seeing folks at home when they might be drug heads, etc. House calls make sense only for patients who are well know to the physician and who have already established a patient-physician relationship based on trust. This leads me back to my original thought .. if the pay were better for home care by providers it would be much more common.

#5 The EMT service has a duty to transport sick folks to the hospital. They follow a protocol just like anyone else. I imagine they can also be sued for refusing transport just as a doctor can be sued for NOT PROVIDING ADEQUATE CARE. What we need to do is find a way of punishing those that use the ER as their drug source or as a hotel. Everyone else in the healthcare system can be punished for fraudulant activity why not the poor. Let the politicians figure out an adequate punishment for these folks and if its jail time so be it. Somehow these folks need to get the message that their behavior is unacceptable.

And Obama Wants You to Pay for It!

Sincerely

A WingDing Who Doesn't Comprehend that EVERY Premium Payer IS ALREADY PAYING FOR IT at an UN-NEGOTIATED RATE!

#10 | Posted by Redneckville at 2009-07-14 12:46 PM |

Reddick the abuse would only get worse with people who get free healthcare. If you dont have a co pay or some sense of what it cost they will drive up cost for useless trips to the doctors. Instead they will and do have a feeling of entitlement and will abuse the system at everyones expense but their own. But please continue on with your stupid nonsense it make others realize how fucked up this system will be when halfwits like yourself think healthcare is a right and that is FREE.

A real and valid "need" does NOT equal a "human right".

"Human Rights" deal with free will and opportunity, not with getting free stuff you don't pay for.

This is true even if your children are dying.

Having said that, a decent and moral society DEMANDS that a portion of the wealth of the community be spent helping the disadvantaged (mostly to allow them to become tax payers too, but sometimes, such as pain meds for the elderly, for pure charity). But expenditures like this are reflection of the ethics of a society, NOT a "right".

I don't understand the purpose of this thread, it makes no sense.

In reference to #48

In the recent economic downtown, I was without income for over 6 months, AND had some serious medical bills at the same time.

I started turning down some recommended care, because I was determined to die rather than accept one more dime of care I could not pay for myself.

I've paid back all overdue bills at this point, and am paying back all the friends and family, and even strangers, who helped me when I was down (the world is full of saints, in spite of what the papers say).

Needless to say, after I looked a doctor in the eye, and refused care I could not pay for, I dont have much sympathy for those who view it as right that they can abuse as they see fit.

(on a vaguely related note: Henrietta Hughes should have asked Obama for JOB.....)

Having said that, a decent and moral society DEMANDS that a portion of the wealth of the community be spent helping the disadvantaged...

#49 | Posted by USAF242

An looter society makes the same demands upon the wealth of others. It's a slippery slope upon to build a foundation of generosity, but in principle I agree with your post.

I don't understand the purpose of this thread, it makes no sense.

#50 | Posted by moneywar

Just add it to the list of simple concepts...

USA - Its family and friends like you have that make a man rich. I understand your delemia and know that my parents would do the same. Most of your generation would do the same but we are currently dealing with a large portion of the population that play the victim and dont have health care because of priorites. Not only do the play the victim but also dont think that they need to put any skin in the game to play.

If the government was only looking to solve the issues of laps in coverage, preexisting conditions and oversite, I would be all for it but instead they are using the shorting comings of our current ssytem to bring in a trojan horse that I think will destroy my families health care or just make so expensive that we are all in the same boat that cant sustain the group as a whole and will sink all of us.