Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Saturday, July 11, 2009

President Barack Obama said his $787 billion stimulus bill "has worked as intended" as he pushed back against Republican criticism that his recovery program has failed to rescue the economy. Were it not for the stimulus program, the president said, "state deficits would be nearly twice as large as they are now, resulting in tens of thousands of additional layoffs -- layoffs that would affect police officers, teachers, and firefighters."

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I guess 10% unemployment was always in the Dems strategery, eh?

Stop the madness! And the boldness! Someone!

In the weekly Republican response, House Minority Whip Eric Cantor of Virginia said the stimulus bill was "full of pork- barrel spending, government waste and massive borrowing cleverly called stimulus.'"

If this was really the case this minority whip cantor would have given plenty of examples of the pork....but no just a bunch of rhetoric.

Of course it did. Areas that voted for Obama received money at a ratio of 2:1. Paybacks are a bitch.....for the taxpayers that have to work and pay off Obama's debts.

Millions of jobs lost, and the bleeding continues. Yet Obama and Pelosi's stimulus is 'working as intended.' The fiddle music is getting louder.

Now I am not a fan of obama, I think he has fooled most of the voters that he actually cares for the American people, but the current lost jobs is not of his making.

I think obama could have slowed it down quite abit, but I also think this lazy do nothing democratic party is more to blame.

Has this lazy democratic party stopped offshoring?

Has this party made a law to stop this current financial crisis from ever happening again?

Has this party made a law that the pensions from corporation agreement be untouchable?

obama and the democratic party are a waste, next go round they should be cast out for their laziness and lack of representation to the american PEOPLE.

We will lose another 500,000 workers for June, July and August....obama will get thrown out on his ass if he continues to let this happen.....I say good.

So he's saying it wasn't a stimulus bill but another bailout.

He won't admit his bill was a failure.

It's hard to believe that anyone is stupid enough to think that Obama can fix in 6mos what took the previous administration 8yrs to destroy.


Well, ok...not that hard.



#8 | Posted by Dave

Most people understand that Obama inherited a mess. However, most people ALSO expect Obama and the Dems to handle this mess in a responsible way.

Capntrade?

During a major recession???

Horrible.

Ram through a horrible stimulus bill that served as an excuse to funnel all sort of money to pet Dem causes?

Prey upon fears that it has to be passed NOW, or else our economy is going to collapse, and THEN have much of what can be called true 'stimulus' not even begin to take effect until 2010??

Promise that the stimulus will cap unemployment at 8% and without it we'd go to 9, and THEN get it passed and watch unemployment climb to 9.5% and look to be on a trajectory to move to double digits?

Project unsustainable deficits; deficits that make Bush and the GOP look like pikers by comparison?

Obama and the Dems were elected to lead, Dave. Sorry if the public, but not the MSM (at least not yet) feels a compulsion to hold them accountable for their decisions and actions.

It's hard to believe that anyone is stupid enough to think that Obama can fix in 6mos what took the previous administration 8yrs to destroy
Well, ok...not that hard.
#8 | Posted by Dave
ya overlook that he was a majority party Senator - Barry has been in power nearly 2 1/2 years . . .

during that period he (& his party) approved every dime the Fed Gov spent

during that period he & his party's legislation had HUGE economic influences

during that period he could have authored/sponsored health care reform legislation . . where was it?
hell, if he was to busy (lazy) to write some law he could'a had Ayers go at it while Ayers was ghostwriting Obama's "Dreams of My Father"


I think he has fooled most of the voters that he actually cares for the American people, but the current lost jobs is not of his making.
#5 | Posted by moneywar
voters do seem easy to fool . .
disagree about the jobs tho - - see above

Yeah, I remember President Obama promising everyone that the stimulus would immediately make the economy recover from 30 years of Reaganomics. He promised that unemployment would completely disappear and that evertything would be great.

You also 'remember' that this great stimulus was going to keep unemployment from rising above 8 1/2 percent, or that it was going to create and/or keep millions of jobs? Just wait till the great 'Second Stimulus'. Everyone's gettting 40 acres and a Danforth.

"You also 'remember' that this great stimulus was going to keep unemployment from rising above 8 1/2 percent, or that it was going to create and/or keep millions of jobs?"

I remember that they hoped it would keep unemployment below 8-1/2 and it is sort of hard to say how many jobs it actually has saved. We see the economy today with the stimulus money beginning to flow into the economy yet many here are angry that it hasn't already solved all our problems which took decades to create. Of course, many or most of those who are so critical are really opponents of Obama and the Democrats so their patience was worn out before he even took office.

The fiddle music is getting louder.


It's clown music.

And when the Bush tax cuts expired they will go up to 40%.

Add to that state, city and other local taxes--people will see their taxes up to about 47% plus or minus.

Then with Obama he wants to put on a tax surcharge for HC--starting 3-4% if we are lucky--and it will always go up.

So folks paying 50% plus in taxes is really going to help the economy.

EU countries are at least below 50% using the same methods.

And look at their job numbers.

"Everyone's gettting 40 acres and a Danforth."
~Cookie

You changed your name, Mrs. Danforth? What, a little lover's tiff?

Everyone's gettting 40 acres and a Danforth.

Isn't there an option for 20 acres and a CalifChris?

"And when the Bush tax cuts expired they will go up to 40%."

That will be the top tax bracket which only effects the highest earners.

"Then with Obama he wants to put on a tax surcharge for HC--starting 3-4% if we are lucky--and it will always go up."

That's a very small amount compared to what we pay for health care now and it always goes up at twice the rate of inflation. Plus, what I have read is that they are only considering taxing health care benefits when they are extremely generous, nothing like what the average person actually gets.

HE IS EXACTLY CORRECT..
I mean it..he is really telling the truth..

the intent was to pay back as many campaign donors as possible and to do it in a way that all of us would contribute...and that has been a smashing success..

OF course the unemployment rate is vastly higher than he said it would be IF NOTHING WERE DONE>.
but hey...no matte...not with the staterun media and DUPES from the DR to help out..whats the problem??????

so you cant say he is a liar here because it has worked out GREAT..as long as you are a god dammned democrat

Everyone's gettting 40 acres and a Danforth.


can we take the 4o acres and leave the mule and the danforth for the poor....

Obama is a fast learner.

He has perfected Presidential LYING 101 in just over 100 days. Besides, anything THE ONE says must be true...right??

Ahhh, but he does it with such grace and sincerity.

You'de better hang on to your wallets and literally "go for the gold".

I am anxious to see his rationalization for Stimulus II. Probably will run along the lines of "Bush made me do it, again!".

and here is another thing that is working like a charm for obama with little if ANY questioning from the obama CULTISTS

what did clinton have 8 of
and W had 12 of
but obama has 32 and COUNTING OF


CZARS OF COURSE......and even though the car czar has NO EXPERIENCE

and DRIVES A FUCKIN HONDA/..../..

we hear hardly a peep...much like the graft and PAYBACKS FROM this 700 BILLION that is out the window...

AND....we were told that it HAD to be done now and one argument was that it was

NOT TIMELY
NOT TARGETED
and NOT a STIMULUS

THREE things that have been PROVEN RIGHT AT EVERY TURN................

well it was a stimilus....it stimulated countless amounts of VOTES FOR DEMOCRATS...

am anxious to see his rationalization for Stimulus II. Probably will run along the lines of "Bush made me do it, again!".

#21 | Posted by 3853177z at 2009



3853177z

can I call you 38 for short

poll says that 69% dont WANT a stim 2..which would actually be the THIRD STIMULUS THAT DIDNT WORK>>REMEMBER THAT..

but 60% think we are getting one anyway

there is some real change in government we can believe in there boy.....

Consider this; the stimulus package stopped the Wall Street freefall yet only 10% of the money was spent. Perception counts in the financial sector.
Obama is playing the long game. The "I want it NOW" crowd is not pleased.

AND FINNALLY

in one of his jobs that he has become quite good at because of having to do it so often

OBAMA CORRECTS biden..
he now says that misreading it wasnt the problem but that they got "BAD INFO"

oh really?????

so does anyone NOT know where Im going from here????

bad info as in...like info about wmd in iraq?????

so if I follow the liberal line from the later to the former, then OBAMA LIED ABOUT THE ECONOMY ALL ALong.........

well okay then

Well, its inane from the get-go. It's as if building pyramids or other such peripheral activity will produce goods for manufacture and consumption to be distributed among the population.

Most of the so-called "stimulus package" produces nothing. It is just an additional expense paid for with printed money, paper, so that there are more people seeking fewer goods.

Through direct taxation and indirect taxation (running the printing presses and causing inflation). The "stimulus package" is an added cost reducing the standard of living by issuing or transferring more money for the same amount (actually less) goods and services.

By the way, we have almost equilibrium in our trade with Canada, less than anone billion dollar trade deficit, but our trade deficit with China remains off of the charts. We need to find some way to equalize our exchanges with China, either forgo their lower cost goods, or have them buy our goods and services. Otherwise this is just another nail in the coffin of our economic disaster.

Sooner or later people who are adversely affected by events, figure out the incongruency between things being said to be okay and their situations.

Obama, the Marxist and street agitator follows the Marxian model, "From each according to his abilities. To each according to his needs," that presupposes that there is something to distribute. All Obama knows is take and transfer. He could extort money from the larger community for his constituency when there was a lot around. Now it is not being produced. Generosity is negatively affected by straitened circumstance. Who will you be able to take from, Obama? Got it. Start a truly imperialist war. Is that next in your bag of tricks?

I am honored to now take my leave here with the great american johnson now on board to continue the PUSHING BACK OF THE SCREEN and exposing the "WIZARD OF OZ" for what he is......

sir, carry on with our 'saving of america"

well, Obama must be right for according to the news ~ China still supports the $ & Buffet says another stimulus is needed.

The Money Masters have spoken & their chosen oracle will deliver

I am honored to now take my leave here with the great american johnson now on board to continue the PUSHING BACK OF THE SCREEN and exposing the "WIZARD OF OZ" for what he is......

sir, carry on with our 'saving of america"

Posted by afkabl2


ff

Yeah, right, Goldman-Sachs, AIG, and untold foriegn lenders got theirs, at your expense.

Change?

Wall Street owns Obama as surely as they owned Shrub, and Clinton and on and on....

They use their people to run the Treasury and Federal Reserve. Not just failed policies, at taxpayer expense, but systematic looting. Scandalous.

"sir, carry on with our 'saving of america"

When your God left office he didn't leave much of America to save. The stimulus bill is just the respirator so that the country can gain back a little strength and start growing again so that in about twenty years or so another Republican administration can be elected to steal it all again. Successively greedier Republicans with each election cycle.

Barry Boy is over his head and is not even intelligent enough about economics to spin it well.. and, these 'infrastructure' jobs that he keeps smoking are only temporary contracts that will blow into thin air once projects are competed..not long-term sustaining...
'Small business infusion' is what will rapidly bring this country back around.. we have lost jobs that will never be around anymore because we have neglected the very foundation of our economy..
the credibiity of 'obama' has teminally evaporated..

Danni - if you could be a dictator, you would destroy this country within one term. It's impossible to spend your way out of a debt problem. And if you tax all the rich, what do you do for an encore when there are no more rich?

Obama is going to bankrupt the federal government and destroy the dollar. It was never so certain.

Ray if the govt goes bankrupt the repubs will love it. Almost all social programs will be destroyed due to no funding.

"When your God left office he didn't leave much of America to save. The stimulus bill is just the respirator so that the country can gain back a little strength and start growing again so that in about twenty years or so another Republican administration can be elected to steal it all again. Successively greedier Republicans with each election cycle."

Danni:

I'm on your side of the political fence, but I sometimes wonder if you are failing to see what Obama is NOT doing?

We do not have hard-ass pressure on banks to lend, despite our handing them billions of dollars.

We do not have a program intended to stem job loss.

The auto companies who were bailed out were permitted to walk away from many obligations that should have been sacred, like liability claims.

We do not have pressure on corporations to become more responsible to this nation and its communities - they're still being permitted to do any blinkin' thing they please, so long as it boosts their stock price and generates bonuses, and consumers, workers and communities be damned.

Obama campaigned on the idea that Main Street would matter as much as Wall Street. Why are all the big bailouts and rule changes benefiting Wall Street?

Obama may know something that the rest of us don't, but the word on the street is that We The People are not getting treated with due respect and consideration for our woes, and that is going to haunt him come the next election cycle. Reservations about the administration are becoming more frequently and pointedly expressed in the media. Unless Barack Obama finds ways to impact on the little guy's troubles - right here, right now - he will not be re-elected.

And you read it here first.

Jackass

Are you kidding? Republicans are as culpable as Democrats. Their spending habits are in total opposition to their rhetoric.

I'm getting a kick out of watching the political class and their dependants fight over a shrinking revenue base. Of course they are trying hard to suck blood out of the private economy to keep themselves alive, but that won't last.

If this stimulus is "working as intended", can someone kick Barry's dumb ass and tell him that next time he should do a little better planning?

Really, he planned for the economy to continue to go down hill? He planned for things to get worse? Why the hell would he do that?

Either 1) he wanted things worse so he can get other emergency measures (such as nationalized health care) passed or 2) He is so full of shit that his eyes are brown!

Don't know which answer scares me the most.

"He planned for things to get worse? Why the hell would he do that?"

Maybe because he knows a little about economics.

my 6 year old niece knows a "little" about economics... that you can't spend money that you don't have... which is more than ALL of the politicians of either party has managed to learn.

"you can't spend money that you don't have."

She never met the US Congress.


If we do it, unemployment will rise to 7.5%.
If we don't, unemployment will rise to 8.5%.

We did it and unemployment is at 9.5%?

...word is, they have only spent 10% of the money on unemployment benefits. Not government projects to create jobs. (short term projects)These will not roll out until next year!

So they didn't do it? Obama does not know how to grow the economy. This would produce more taxable revenue.

Instead, he paid off his consistency for the next election. No need to raise $600 Million for the next election. He can just print it.

The US money supply has tripled this year! Devaluation and higher unemployment and lower tax revenue are on the way.

"The US money supply has tripled this year!"

Link?

yeah, link?

Working as intended -- bail out the bank, and fuck everyone else.

Mission accomplished.

the intent was to pay back as many campaign donors as possible and to do it in a way that all of us would contribute...and that has been a smashing success..

------------

+1

Yep,

Did what he wanted it to do...and now all that's left to do is pull the handle and flush...

The US money supply has tripled this year!" Link?

#44 | Posted by Danforth


yeah, link?

#45 | Posted by Bani

hmmm, Danforth says it tripled & you're ruffled??


262 Billion = US monetary base as of September 2008 (minus dollars held abroad)
3,818 Billion = projected US monetary base in September 2009 (minus dollars held abroad)

3,818 Billion / 262 Billion = 15-Fold Increase in US monetary base


oops; sorry, that should read -

#43 aclusux says it tripled and you're ruffled . .

Riiiight. Spend a trillion to keep unemployment from hitting 8.9%, and then when you admit it's going to 10%, claim success for your program. Insane.

Look at the charts. The more actions that O takes, the steeper the declines in the good things and the increases in the bad things. Working? Just another filthy lie, being force-fed to us by a complicit press and accepted without question by the stupid and gullible Obama lovers.

If this was really the case this minority whip cantor would have given plenty of examples of the pork....but no just a bunch of rhetoric.

#3 | Posted by moneywar

I guess you have your head somewhere that is blocking your hearing. Several people have done just that.

well, he says the stimulus is working, so i hope he's seeing something i'm not.
but it's not working, because it wasn't designed to work. it was designed to give away tax dollars for no reason other than the fact that everybody'd just lost their shirts and kitchen sinks a few months before...
it's not the election. it's not payback. if the places that voted for him most got the most money from stimulus it's because those places are POOR AS SHIT, AND voted for him.
...
but i REALLY think his statement here is an attempt to quell our fears of stimulus round 3, which no american wants. but that doesn't really matter, does it? i mean, none of us wanted the first 2, and they still got rammed through both houses without being read. (maybe if they made bills into movies they'd pay attention?) but if the whole concept of "stimulating the economy" doesn't work, then where will we be? bush tried stimulus - fail. obama tries stimulus - fail.
can we please have a viable 3rd fucking option already? in 2012 the sides shouldn't be as clear cut as 2 choices, because as a country we're more complicated now. republicans who hated bush and mccain will go running back to their party to try and rescue it from death, and democrats will stick to their guns (those that have them). meanwhile, us independents, as always, will kinda be sitting back wondering why the fuck you morons keep voting for the same groups of assholes while they both continue to fail us all so miserably.

#50

Any links from any reliable news sources?

The only certain jobs created are his czars and their staff aids.

"It's hard to believe that anyone is stupid enough to think that Obama can fix in 6mos what took the previous administration 8yrs to destroy."

What do you mean by "anyone?"

Obama himself was stupid enough to think he could do it. He bet all of our lives on it. And we were stupid enough to believe him.

"Obama himself was stupid enough to think he could do it. He bet all of our lives on it. And we were stupid enough to believe him."


You are an idiot.

It paid off all the adoring Messiah obssessed who put him in office. His fans will support all his programs.

This fanatical base includes the MSM who did not question any personal history or agenda during the campaign.

"Hope and Change" was the mantra and psychological Kool Aid of the anti-Bushies.

The Community Organizer in Chief paid back his backers and vote frauders at ACORN. They will now conduct the next CENSUS, (How many dead peeps will be resurrected and vote in the next election).
Chicago's Richard Daley Sr. would smiling in his grave.

His BIGGEST campaign donors were Guess Who? WALL STREET. GOLDMAN/SUX runs THE FED, TREASURY, EVERY TAXPAYER FUNDED BAILOUT Program.

The minions who supported willn be enslaved to his agenda as well as the 48% who did not HOPLESSNESS & POCKET CHANGE.

You are an idiot.

#57 | Posted by Dave

That's right, you are an idiot for believing him. Yes we can!!! what? Change!! what?

Where the fuck are the jobs??

Hope and change and BULLSHIT.


The Pot calling the Kettle black. Change!!!!!! Here it is.

The most amazing insights are in Galbraiths "Predator State". Reagan (& Volcker) set the stage for Clinton's economic boom. Contrary to what Conservatives blast on the airways, raising the minimum wage lowers unemployment. This is the major difference between Scandanavian and other Western economies.

Its all bullshit and its bad for you.

Contrary to what Conservatives blast on the airways, raising the minimum wage lowers unemployment... Nutcase

Well shit, if raising the minimum wage creates jobs, pay everyone 10,000 an hour and the whole damn world can have a job.

Fucking stupid.

Obama: Stimulus 'Worked as Intended'

Really? Then why are the unemployment numbers continuing to increase? Where are all the millions of jobs that were supposed to be created? After getting elected, why did he change the rhetoric to 'created or saved'? I presume he did in order to keep anyone from being able to hold him accountable, as it's pretty hard to count a saved job.

The stimulus package has been one big gigantic failure, causing the federal debt to grow exponentially. Let's make it even worse with another stimulus package. The Republicans should have an easy time in the next election cycle.

"Really? Then why are the unemployment numbers continuing to increase? Where are all the millions of jobs that were supposed to be created? After getting elected, why did he change the rhetoric to 'created or saved'? I presume he did in order to keep anyone from being able to hold him accountable, as it's pretty hard to count a saved job."

Huh? He was saying "created or saved" for at least a couple of months before the election. That's not new rhetoric.

And how can anyone say that the stimulus package (which I hate, btw) has failed given that only 10% (or so I hear from people of various stripes) of the money has been spent. If you're engaging in prediction, please say so. (And if you want to say that Obama is full of shit because he said it's working, then say that. I'm willing to hold him to the same standard I'm suggesting for the rest of us. : ) )

Very good points, republican4ever. Funny how people come in with all the excuses, e.g., about how only 10% of the money has been spent, etc, when the fact is, either it has worked as intended or it has not. If they needed to spend more of the money faster and did not, then it did not work as intended. But the main thing is, the predictions of how the plan would work have failed. We were told there would be more jobs by now, and there are not, and that the economy would be better, and it is not.

What Obama said would happen has in fact not occurred, and he is now changing the goalposts so he can claim success. Obama is using the old Jedi mind control trick of repeating something enough times that it becomes the "truth." And look! It's working! Pragmatist believes it, and here come the rest of the lemmings!

"Raising the minimum wage lowers unemployment" LOLOLOLOL HAHAHAHAHAHAH ROFLMAO!!!!

Yes, Nutcase, and if you spend more money than you have, you can buy your way out of debt! LOLOLOLOLOL

And if we increase wages by union decree, we can stay in business by paying workers $80k per year to fill a barrel with ink all day long, and we can continue to pay them that same amount in retirement for not working at all! No need to get bail out funds, declare bankruptcy, or move our business overseas for cheaper labor! HAHAHAHAHAHAH

What a Nutcase!!!

"And look! It's working! Pragmatist believes it, and here come the rest of the lemmings!"

Hey, Yeswecan, do you read what I actually write? Or maybe I need to use simpler words, like "Fuck you." I wonder if you used words like lemmings during the trickery executed by other administrations. But never mind, I don't need to deflect. I can almost understand and appreciate the concept of "If we needed to spend more money and we didn't, then the plan failed." Sort of. But what that says is the plan was no good, not whether it succeeded or failed on its own merits. What was the plan? Did you read it all? I didn't. (I'll remind you all: I think the stimulus package is FUCKED UP. Wrong on so many levels.)

The 10% I brought up is a number kicked around by partisans on all sides. For different reasons. Seems logical to me, though, to suggest that if you haven't fully executed a plan, you can't say it succeeded or failed. (So RIGHT, the president can't say it either.) If I put forth a plan to change how we do, say, assessment at my school, and it will take four years to roll out the plan (hardly unusual in systemic change efforts), I can't wait three months then declare success or failure, -except of the components completed or slated to be completed during that time period-.

And I've not yet seen a critic here, not one who says "failed" or "succeeded," assess success or failure in terms of how far we've come and how much we've spent. Even your qualifier about needing to spend more--that's a flaw in the plan, not a success or failure _of the plan_.

I am NOT excusing the plan. I think it spends money in many wrong places, and I think it was rushed. And I think many people are responsible, on both sides of the aisle. But define your terms, please. Remember that Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.

My my pragmatist. Hit a nerve, did I? Try to control your temper. I hope you don't have those types of uncontrolled outbursts at your school :)

Obama said the plan would work a certain way. It did not. The fact that Obama is now claiming the plan worked does not make it so. Maybe it's because there was a flaw in the plan. Maybe it's because there were several flaws in the plan. The fact remains it did not work as intended. Period.

Now run along and try to calm down before you make a bigger ass of yourself :)

Obama is a lying piece of shit!!!!! He is pulling numbers out of his ass. Working? Millions are losing their jobs. Foreclosures are at record highs. Families are struggling to put food on the table.


Obama thinks everything is going well because he is going on $25,000 taxpayer funded dates to New York and being flown their on a Gulfstream 500 series super elite private jet that costs around $50 million. His wife was just photographed holding a $6,000 handbag on their recent trip to Russia. Michelle was also wearing $500 tennis shoes to a homeless shelter. Obama signed a $500,000 book deal advance just 5 days before being sworn into office. He serves $100/pound wagyu beef at the White House. Of course everything is "working" for the Obama's and only the Obamas!!!!!!!

Before I make an ass out of myself. That's some funny shit.

And if you think that my post indicated some bad temper, you don't get out much. Hell, you don't even read DR much. There was little anger in there, and lots of energy to make my point. Big difference.

But it's cool, man. I said my piece. If you want to cling to some sense of being right, you go right ahead. Also, I'm not sure how you continue to misread my point that Obama can't claim success or failure yet either. I said that. Twice. At least.

Again, if you need to feel you're right and I'm wrong, oh, well. Who cares about logic?

Those who think choosing betyween a Republican or Democrat is a real choice which will bring meaningfull change are ignorant fools.

The slide began when Corporations were given the same legal rights as human beings (1886). The bullshit got really thick when our public airways were totally privatized. That selloff began in 1923 culminating in a $20billion switch to digital TV ini June. They control what you hear and see.

"They control what you hear and see."

Really? Because I just saw your post. Are they controlling that?

Danforth, didn't you know? The Internet is the only place to find Truth. Well, not the only. Talk radio, man; the other place for Truth. I mean, it's not as if radio stations or any web sites are owned by corporations.

But I expect that's what Nutcase was talking about. I agree about the digital TV--well, not that "they" are controlling what we see and hear, but that it was a corporate BS agenda. There was plenty of spectrum still available in analog form. I believe the digital takeover was the result of lobbying by TV manufacturers and cable giants.

How about we start by going back to antitrust laws and by taking away corporate personhood?

The sad thing is that the people who are already judging the stimulus package (and Obama) as having failed are going to keep stating the same for the next 8 years - regardless of how things work out. The hilarious part is that they will continue saying the same regardless of how things work out.

I don't like the parts of the stimulus which intends bailouts for non-banking companies. I like that they are drifting away from that. Still, I do like that the administration is already talking about diverting the non-spent money (around 600 billion worth) towards small businesses loans and lines of credit and towards infrastructure maintenance. I was pretty certain it would take another stimulus package before that occurred.

I think the stimulus has achieved its most important objectives, of turning around public and investor confidence and of stemming the financial collapse. Now it's a wait-and-see game. This recession has a lot of loose and dangerous ends that still need correction.

I mostly hope this administration don't overreach - which has been my biggest fear from the start.

so if barry says it is working as intened, has anyone bothered to ask him why he intended umemployment to get this high and rising...
or was that just another of his statements with the expiration date...

and if it wasnt intended, then you would have to admit that its another democrat Unintended consequence that will bankrupt us and get people killed

"you would have to admit that its another democrat Unintended consequence that will bankrupt us"

What was the first one that bankrupted us?

well talk to people who were living from 1929 to 1941 and you will see that dems spending and spending did little to get the us out of double didget unemployment...

so what world war will get bho out of this one???

none I hope.............

"has anyone bothered to ask him why he intended umemployment to get this high and rising..."

I wonder if people who make statements like this actually believe that people, with two or more synapses which work, take them seriously. Other than those who speak to the choir around them.

that poor sentence structure is a result of being in a hurry.
sorry if I offended your grammatical sensibilities.

#78 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2009-07-12 03:38 PM | Reply | Flag: fail

"Here we go again: Hoover got us in, and WWII got us out. Bush got us in, and
to his credit, starting trying to get us out. Though, mostly he threw money at bankers.
In the Great Depression, Roosevelt tried deficit spending, but he was too timid. Then he stopped in 1937 and the economy nose-dived. It took the humongous deficits of WWII to pull us out of the Great Depression. Those deficits blasted the economy from depression into overdrive.
Of course after the war, we had to pay off a huge national debt, but during that time, from 1946 to 1980, the economy was mainly quite prosperous. We hit a bad recession when Reagan took office, and his early deficit spending made sense (though he didn't know it). But then he continued to drive up the debt through the boom years that followed. That didn't make any sense."

zfacts.com

Thanks for continuing to demonstrate why public education is Texas is shit.

"talk to people who were living from 1929 to 1941 and you will see that dems spending and spending did little to get the us out of double didget unemployment..."

That has nothing to do with bankrupting us. Try answering the actual question.

"talk to people who were living from 1929 to 1941 and you will see that dems spending and spending did little to get the us out of double didget unemployment..."

Historical studies have indicated the exact opposite.

If only 10% of the "stimulus" money has been spent, then there should be no need for another "stimulus" until the money is gone. It wouldn't surprise me if the money has already been used. So much for transparency.

danforth,

Its a numbers game. 250-300 million absorbing mainstream media bullshit, such as we bomb and terrorize innocent people because we love freedom and Democracy, and 500-2000 on this site.

#85

Huh?

Mictian--That's probably why Obama has said he's not interested in another stimulus package...

My bet is the money has already been allocated, at least in large fractions to specific entities. The question of transparency, for me, comes a bit later: We're supposed to be able to track all this shit, right? What a fuckin' logistical nightmare that is.

Here in NH and in VT, I've seen signs declaring money from the Recovery and whatever Act or Program. I forget now. That ain't stimulus. I mean, yeah, it's jobs, but for how long? You finish the road, and you're done, no?

In education, there is money available this year and next (I think that means for this school year and the next one), but it apparently has to be for ongoing programs. Sounds like a kickstart, then. Here's the money; kick off a program; make it work. That actually sounds a bit like... stimulus.

Maybe that's why only 10% has been _spent_? Again, I'm just talkin' here--I have no idea of the logistics of this plan. Nor would I try to defend it. I'm hoping some good comes of it all. Seems to me anyone who came in was going to try to engineer some sort of overhaul.

Only a portion of the "stimulus" money has been spent because congress was smart enough to load the spending in future years when they are running for re-election. Then, a small upswing caused by deficit spending might be enough to get them sent back to congress.

Good or bad for America is so far down the list behind getting elected again, finding the next intern or page to bang, etc. that we aren't even on the radar.

The people just don't matter to those in power.

The only way to solve the problem is to take power back from Washington. Unless (and until) that happens, the slide to hell will continue, with the dems and repubs just taking a slightly different path.

Most people understand that Obama inherited a mess.

#9 | Posted by JeffJ


Common JeffJ, let's be honest here. Obama did not "inherit" a mess, he helped build it with the other Democrats when they became the majority. It's not like when the Democrats became majority they stopped or even cut spending.


Obama and the Dem's claim they inherited it was just their way to cover it up so they could push everything back to GW. Sadly, many Democrats just followed along like the other sheep.

"The only way to solve the problem is to take power back from Washington."

Ain't gonna happen until we stop reelecting the same 435 assholes over and over and over....

We'll also have to boot the tens of thousands of federal workers in the state department, defense, commerce, transportation etc. etc. who have been camped there for decades also. THEY are the ones who have built the "empire."

It's hard to believe that anyone is stupid enough to think that Obama can fix in 6mos what took the previous administration 8yrs to destroy.


Well, ok...not that hard.


#8 | Posted by Dave

When are people going to get it thru their heads that this economic mess was not the doing of the Bush administration. They played a very small part in it. Please tell me exactly what they did to cause the recession? Much of it was caused by horrible mortgage practices and millions of people not being able to pay back loans. There were other factors that were out of Bush's control. Besides, if you want to blame the government you need only look at the democrat congress which has held the purse strings for the past 4 years. The mistake Bush made was trying to please and befriend them by passing everything that they sent to him.

You are well past the stage of being able to blame Bush. And if you are going to blame him you can not leave out the dem congress. To do so is intellectually dishonest.

Yeah, I remember President Obama promising everyone that the stimulus would immediately make the economy recover from 30 years of Reaganomics. -Danni


Jesus Christ, Danni. How can you put the blame on Reagan when he revived a horrendous economy that Carter created. If Reagan would have just continued along with Carters policies this country would have fallen from the ranks of super power very fast. It would have devastated us. How you can blame Reagan after what Carter left him is a complete mystery and it is totally incorrect. And why do you always say it started with Reagan when it is obvious to everyone that Carter was the one who created the mess. You are so intellectually dishonest that it is sickening and pathetic.

From the mid-1980s to 2007, the ratio of debt-to-GDP rocketed from 165% to over 350%; more than doubling in that same period. The build-up of personal debt follows the exact same trend-line as the aggregate profits of the financial sector; they're opposite sides of the same coin.

Speculative bubblemaking is Wall Street's method of shifting wealth from workers to the investor class. It never fails. It's the reason why 42 states are now facing budget shortfalls, unemployment has risen to 9.5%, and $45 trillion has vanished from global equity markets. Financialization has created a global crisis, crushed consumer demand, increased systemic instability, and put the economy into a nosedive.

Wall Street has conjured up myriad complex debt-instruments (derivatives and securitization) which have been used to enhance leverage by many trillions of dollars so that financial mandarins and hedge fund managers can skim lavish bonuses and salaries on the front end before their Ponzi scam implodes.

Delinquencies, defaults, bankruptcies and foreclosures are all up, while state budgets buckle and joblessness mushrooms. The Republicans are following the neoliberal handbook, trying to crash the economy so that public assets can be privatized and public services terminated. They're being helped in their campaign by bailout-weary citizens who don't understand that short-circuiting government spending during a deep recession can precipitate a bigger catastrophe.

Government spending can take up the slack in demand, but it can't fix the economy's underlying problems. Now the top 1 percent of wealth holders own more than twice as much as the bottom 80% of the population. If the underlying problems are not going to be fixed, than why are liberal economists so eager to use their talents to minimize the effects of the recession? They're just making it easier for Wall Street huckster's to start gaming the system again.

The economy is headed for a protracted slowdown with persistent high unemployment and growing social unrest. The future is deflation.

Excerpted from Mike Whitney @ Counterpunch

Meaning the "intention" was to further enrich the wealthy (campaign donor) class.

Clearly the problem is larger and than Obama. Equally clear is he is sticking with Paulson's Recovery Plan, which is dismantling America, one person at a time. Radiologists and CEOs are just as outsourcable as factories

"Jesus Christ, Danni. How can you put the blame on Reagan when he revived a horrendous economy that Carter created."

It's easy for her. Every one of danni's posts...and I mean EVERY ONE of them...has only one theme:

Republicans....BAD!
Democrats....GOOD!

"How can you put the blame on Reagan when he revived a horrendous economy that Carter created."

This from the same group who was ready to blame Obama on day one.

"Government spending can take up the slack in demand, but it can't fix the economy's underlying problems."

I think this point is at the center of the debate. The proponents of the government spending are largely ignoring the underlying problems or at least saying that they should wait to fix them, while "bailout-weary citizens" see efforts to fix the underlying problems as the problem. In the end, all we'll have is the spending, and both sides will claim they were right.

This from the same group who was ready to blame Obama on day one.
#95 | Posted by Danforth

That's what I was thinking.

He threw money at a problem that he clearly did not understand. The money has pork in it which should never be if the financial crisis is real (It is..)

Passing bills they do not read? Anybody who did that should be thrown out. It is not an over night created problem, nor is the fix.

Punish the wrongdoers and make people responsible... Level tax... put up the fence (Why is there limited discussion on illegal immigration?) It is a drain on the economy and do we want to become "New" New Mexico? We should not allow so many in that we will lose our blended culture and become that culture. They should stay and fight for their own country, it should be a great one. I may have to go there!

It certainly did. We steal money from the people who earn it, and give it to our voting block, thereby bribing them to keep us in power just in case our fascist ideas don't work.....of course, as usual, they are selling people short....

ryker,

half right

they are stealing the money from people that earn it as we speak, but they aren't giving it to the voting block, they are giving it to a small group of superwealthy that provide 60% of Washington's funding. Most of those donations go to Republicans, but Wall Street chose Obama, because he provides a sweater face for them to operate behind. This move has pacified large blocks of voters.

this economy has been going south since the Dems took over in 2006

I believe in 2005 unemployment was at 4.4% with record tax revenues to the Gov..............then the dems took over

Of course Obama is pleased with the stimulus. He hates America!

Obama originally thought unemployment would reach around 8% or so and now it is at 9.5% and climbing. Since assuming office, millions more are having trouble putting food on the table, keeping the utilities on and paying the mortgage or rent. When you hate America like Obama does, that's a success!

Now if I can just find a nice pair of $500 designer sneakers like Michelle Obama, I will run a few laps around the block chanting Si Se Puede.

The first stimulus isn't working -- why start-up another?

Wouldn't it make sense to tweak the 1st stimulus to jump-start it into working now? Or, is the 1st stimulus so locked-in that leaders of the most powerful country in the world can't fix the fine print.

It's either they cannot or don't want to make the change.

Yes - working as intended. Bailing out the state goverments that have been over extended by thier drift into socialism (that is where the majority of the money has gone to this point) and creating a slush fund of money to be spent in 2010 to keep the Dems in office by using it as a massive pay off fund.

It was NEVER intended to reduce employment - as having government spend money never does. It WAS intended to maintain power. But that will not work if you guys wake up and realize what you thought you voted for is not what you got...what you have gotten is a 3rd world socialist dictator -"Baby Doc Barack".


this economy has been going south since the Dems took over in 2006


I believe in 2005 unemployment was at 4.4% with record tax revenues to the Gov..............then the dems took over

#101 | Posted by Maverick at 2009


bravo....the truth sir is what you post here..nice, but its too bad that dems are so involved with the obama cult and the hatred of the right that they are still blind to what he is doing

AS RUSH said today which I agree with,.

THis is why he said he wanted obama to fail because THIS is just what he wanted to do all along...
and if it ISNT, then was barry a liar when he said this?????

also AS RUSH said...its an effort to drain as much money from the private sector as they can as soon as they can and WHY....easy...to get as many subserviant to the DEM government as possible

the only REAL question is when will more moderates and conservative dems WAKE UP.

"If this was really the case this minority whip cantor would have given plenty of examples of the pork....but no just a bunch of rhetoric."

Are you that stupid that anytime someone criticizes the stimulus bill, they need to repeat the examples of pork that everyone else already knows about? Here's a short list for you.


$2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Dept. of Energy defunded last year because the project was inefficient
A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film
$650 million for the digital television (DTV) converter box coupon program
$88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship)
$448 million for constructing the Dept. of Homeland Security headquarters
$248 million for furniture at the new Dept. of Homeland Security headquarters
$600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees
$400 million for the CDC to screen and prevent STD's
$1.4 billion for a rural waste disposal programs
$150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities
$1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion
$75 million for "smoking cessation activities"
$200 million for public computer centers at community colleges
$75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI
$25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction
$10 million to inspect canals in urban areas
$6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings
$500 million for state and local fire stations
$650 million for wildland fire management on Forest Service lands
$150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities
$1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs
$88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service
$412 million for CDC buildings and property
$500 million for building and repairing NIH facilities in Bethesda, MD
$160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service
$5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the VA "National Cemetery Administration"
$850 million for Amtrak
$100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint
$75M to construct a new "security training" facility for State Dept Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.
$110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems
$200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.
State Medicaid Bailout: $87.7 billion Through 3 different mechanisms, the bill would provide additional federal funds to state Medicaid programs over the next 3 years. This is nearly $70 billion more than the governors asked President Obama for in December, and should be a loan to be repaid by the states.

This from the same group who was ready to blame Obama on day one.

#95 | Posted by Danforth


I don't know of anyone who was ready to blame Obama on day one. I think you're exaggerating a bit on that. Obama got just as much time as Bush did before the shit set in. Actually Bush got less because of how close the election was. We don't need to hear any crying out of you about how Obama is treated after what the left did with Bush. There is truly no comparison.

Sure did, It paid off most of his egg sucking supporters and will buy the loser lots of cigarettes.

we werent ready to blame anyone.
BUT we were ready to remind you and others that we tried to warn people about bho because of people he associated with and because of his inexperince..
TWO things that have become absolutelt true

example

we said...the SECOND stimulous was

NOT TIMELY
NOT TARGETED
and NOT A STIMULUS.

and ALL three have come true,....

as well as an oppresive government that is rising even above our predictions

Example...under cap and tax...it will be possible that the government will require you to place a block on water when you take a shower.............

"I don't know of anyone who was ready to blame Obama on day one. "

For the economy? Even at this point, Obama hasn't had enough time to effect the economy. But blame actually began before he took office, as some suggested the markets were tanking in response to his inevitable election. But it's good to know you're not going to blame the inheritors of shitty economies.

"We don't need to hear any crying out of you"

Who's crying? I'm pointing out facts.

Saying he hasn't had enough time to effect the economy suggests that you have some idea as to when he will have had enough time. Can you tell me when that will be so I know when the excuses will end?

"Saying he hasn't had enough time to effect the economy suggests that you have some idea as to when he will have had enough time."

Well, when you've been handed the steering wheel after someone drives the car off the cliff, it's usually the first driver's fault until it hits bottom. We're not there yet; the commercial bond shoe will be the next to drop, with possibly more to come.

Well, when you've been handed the steering wheel after someone drives the car off the cliff, it's usually the first driver's fault until it hits bottom.
Posted by Danforth

When you piss away $1T on the car, the steering wheel shouldn't come off.

"When you piss away $1T on the car, the steering wheel shouldn't come off."

The $1T was just for the air bags, so the occupants don't get killed in the crash.

"Well, when you've been handed the steering wheel after someone drives the car off the cliff, it's usually the first driver's fault until it hits bottom. We're not there yet; the commercial bond shoe will be the next to drop, with possibly more to come."

You use that analogy daily. It doesn't answer my question. If you say he hasn't had enough time to impact the economy yet, then that means you have at least some idea as to when "enough time" is. When?

"I don't know of anyone who was ready to blame Obama on day one." - Everlong

I do. And a few people on the DR did so also.


"Saying he hasn't had enough time to effect the economy suggests that you have some idea as to when he will have had enough time." - Joe

Most economists say that the stimulus should start being felt in the third or fourth quarter of this year. Most think next year will be a flat year regardless of what is or isn't being done. Most expect late 2010 to see the serious beginning of the climb out of the recession, with the economic showing 2% or better growth.

Probably this time net year, after he's into his first budget. The larger the economy, the longer it takes to effect.

It'll also be Obama's economy after he leaves office as well, until the policies of his successor have had time to come to fruition. Not politics, just economics.

"Probably this time net year, after he's into his first budget."

Whether that's true or not, doesn't that defeat the notion of "stimulus" as some sort of immediate savior to our economy?

I noticed you used the term "probably." My guess is that if the economy improves, that "probably" will turn into a "definitely," but if it doesn't, you have a way out. Any chance you'll set a hard date for when he has "had enough time" to impact the economy?

"Whether that's true or not, doesn't that defeat the notion of "stimulus" as some sort of immediate savior to our economy?"

No, not at all, not when you look at the overall picture. Although personally, I think it's way too large, and spends too much on bullshit.

"My guess is that if the economy improves, that "probably" will turn into a "definitely," but if it doesn't, you have a way out. "

No, if in a year we see no change, I won't ask for any extensions.

So Danforth, the "Worked as Intended" statement was bullshit?

"So Danforth, the "Worked as Intended" statement was bullshit?"

I didn't like it at all. I think "working" as intended was what he should have said. With only about 10% actually in, we don't know whether it will work or not.

It's hard to believe that anyone is stupid enough to think that Obama can fix in 6mos what took the previous administration 8yrs to destroy.

June is a month that traditionally enjoys a surplus not a deficit. The last time there was a deficit for June came in 1991

does that mean bush had a surplus for 8 years,wow.







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