I can only imagine that NANC posted ObamaNews network as sarcasm.

No, Joe, you didn't 'misread' anything.

"The truth of the matter was, no one anticipated, no one expected that that recovery package would in fact be in a position at this point of having to distribute the bulk of money."

So actually distributing the fucking money was always a secondary priority, and still has yet to be done. More shovel-ready bullshit for the Obamabots.

maybe the FED has a solution?

not to change the subject...

'Voltaire said that the most extraordinary man in recorded history was Charles XII. I would disagree: the most extraordinary man - if we admit such superlatives - was that mysterious subject of Charles XII, Emanuel Swedenborg'. Jorge Luis Borges

"He continued to be an active member of the Swedish House of Nobles, presenting a paper on problems relating to the inflation of the currency when he was already in his 80s."

Ibid

but-but-but, there were still checks in the checkbook!

#1 | Posted by L_RContrarian

moi?

This "admission" is hardly a reason to be opposed to the stimulus, more like a reason to be even more in favor of both it and possibly another one too.
The damage created by thirty years of Reaganomics will take more than a few months to fix.

STOPPIT, DANNI!

i'd like a nickel for every time you offer up the word "reaganomics".

The damage created by thirty years of Reaganomics will take more than a few months to fix.

Really hard to understand how you arrive at that conclusion... completely thoughtless and devoid of fact. Just empty sloganeering.

from near the top...err bottom (depending on how you read it)...

"All that you're admitting is your bank robbing days is in its final stage before you begin robbing the American people personally."

#2 | Posted by L_RContrarian at 2009-07-05 09:58 PM

The link he posts is to the Ultra Conspiracy Theory Website--Prison Planet...

Websites such as Prison Planet, with their paranoid world takeover conspiracys, seem to be one of the new Trusted Sources of the Dingbat Fringoid Right...

Talk about "digging in the dirt", and, "no spin here"...

How is Biden putting his foot in his mouth by admitting that the administration didn't get something right?

The economic meltdown is incredibly difficult to overcome. I'd rather have the Obama administration admit its mistakes than to take Bush's course and tell us it's sunny outside when we can all see it's raining.

get your umbrella out, rcade.

"
STOPPIT, DANNI!

i'd like a nickel for every time you offer up the word "reaganomics"."

Sorry to offend, I guess I can use some of the other terms for the same thing. How about Voo doo economics???
Can't avoid the fact though that supply side, trickle down economics has ruined the economy of the US. Not a talking point at all, it is really more of a talking point to attack the words instead of providing an argument to the contrary. Defend tax cuts and 3 trillion left in debt by the same administration, defend tax cuts during two wars and again, trillion in debt left behind.
The right, til 2007, tried to pretend the economy ws robust and that it therefore proved the benefits of those tax cuts, we know better now, the talking point just induces laughter or worse, violence, now.

Can't avoid the fact though that supply side, trickle down economics has ruined the economy of the US.

I can avoid it just like I avoid some nutjob on the street corner trying to sell me a watch.

I encounter loons in person and online.

:-(

Sure, Joe. Everybody else misread it.

For Danni:

The basics: What does it take to get our economy moving again? Spending. If nobody is spending nobody needs to produce. You aren't going to gather the raw materials and personnel together to spend time and money creating a product or service unless you have some degree of confidence that there are people out there who either have or can borrow the money to buy it. Our economy is a constant day-by-day election process. The products and services put into the marketplace are the candidates. Consumers are the voters. Dollars are the ballots. If a candidate gets no votes, the candidate either reinvents himself or just simply goes away. The whole process slows down or grinds to a halt if the voters don't have ballots to cast.

Clearly, to stimulate our economy money had to be spent. That's basic. The question, then, was who gets to spend the money? If the American public gets to make the choices as to when and where the money is spent, that equates to power for the people. If, on the other hands, those decisions are made by the political class, it means no power to the people - the power goes to the elected elite. Now would someone please try to explain to me why these politicians, as completely immersed as they are in building their individual power bases, would ever want to turn over the power that goes with spending these huge sums of money to the great unwashed? How in the world is that going to benefit a politician? How do you generate a campaign ad for radio telling the voters that you deserve reelection because the private consumers in your district kept the local hardware store and a few clothing shops in business with their spending? Better you should be able to lay claim to a few road widenings and resurfacings and a new rehearsal hall for the local high school band.

Do you remember how much that stimulus bills was? Let's just call it $750 billion. For the sake of argument let's accept that this $750 billion had to be borrowed and spent to get our economy cranking again. Once you've accepted the $750 billion figure we're going to borrow, you then have to decide just who gets to spend that money and what they get to spend it on.

Here's an idea from Texas congressman Louis Gohmert (R 1st Dist.). Gohmert wanted a tax holiday. I've taken his idea and expanded it a bit. Last year Gohmert was floating an idea of allowing the American people to go one full month without paying any federal income or payroll taxes. The idea was that they would then spend this money and stimulate the economy. When Obama started talking about the $750 billion dollar stimulus price tag I did some quick calculations. It seems that $750 billion is almost exactly equal to the amount of federal income, Social Security and Medicare taxes withheld from American paychecks over a six-month period.

COntinued....

Are you following me? How about not a one-month tax holiday, but six months? How about letting people keep almost their entire paychecks for one-half of a year?

So -- here are the two possible scenarios our politicians had to work with:

1.Borrow the $750 billion and let the politicians (the looters) decide how it is going to be spent to stimulate our economy.

2.Give the producers a six month period in which they owe no federal income or payroll taxes. For these six months they get to keep their checks. This puts $750 billion into the hands of American workers - American producers - to spend and invest.
Either way you are going to have to borrow $750 billion. If you give the people a six-month tax holiday the money will have to be borrowed to replace the lost revenue.

You see it, don't you? There is one huge difference between the two plans. Under the government spending scenario the politicians get to decide how the money is spent. In other words, they get the power. Remember ... power is the goal. It's everything to the political class. Politicians wanted to decide which road is built, which park is refurbished, and which research project gets additional funding. Every one of these decisions would be made based on the political capital it will generate.

Under the tax holiday plan the people, not the politicians, get to cast the ballots/dollars. Spending choices would not be made on the basis of political expediency, but on the free choices of the people. Businesses that delivered a good product and good customer service would get the votes, not politicians who delivered a pork project to their districts.

A dollar spent on a new lawnmower at the hardware store does not generate a single vote. A dollar spent on a new job mowing grass along an Interstate highway does.

So ... there was a decision to be made. Massive amounts of money were going to be borrowed and spent to stimulate our economy (or so the storyline went). But just who would get to spend the money?

Do you remember that famous Bill Clinton line? It was January of 1999. The place was Buffalo, New York. The federal government had actually collected more tax money that it needed. There was a surplus. Someone asked Clinton if, considering the surplus, there might be a tax cut. His response: "We could give it all back to you and hope you spend it right... But ... if you don't spend it right, here's what's going to happen." He then went on to describe the gloomy future of Social Security when more people are collecting benefits than paying taxes.

Sure .. it's your money. You worked for it; you earned it. That money actually represents the expenditure of a portion of your life ... and here's this politician telling you that even though he doesn't actually need that money right now, he's going to go ahead and keep it because if he returns it to its rightful owner - you - then you won't "spend it right." Now excuse me, but don't you get to decide what would be the right way and the wrong way to spend your money?

You know the rest of this story. The politicians in Washington decided that they would be doing the spending, not you. You just could not be trusted to spend it "right." So President Obama sent the word to Princess Pelosi to gather together all of the spending dreams and schemes of her Democrat members of congress and compile them into a massive spending bill. The bill would be pure pork and designed for nothing more than to secure reelections; but it would be called stimulus.

"I'm sure you won't accept it because of the source....:

You mean Boortz? You have to confess, that's strike against it.

Boortz' imagination never extends to the idea of people making less than he does. He's just another fellow who thinks the world would be fine if it was filled with him.

how about giving every TAXPAYER $2,000 refund in the form of a debit card that expires in 60 days?

"2.Give the producers a six month period in which they owe no federal income or payroll taxes. For these six months they get to keep their checks. This puts $750 billion into the hands of American workers - American producers - to spend and invest."

Just one little, itty bitty problem with that idea. The majority of that 750 billion would be taxes not paid by wealthy people who won't be buying new lawn mowers or anything else. Exactly the problem created with supplyside economics.
Now, let's see if Boortz would still support the idea if it only applied to taxpayers earning less than $250,000 per year. Even that is too high but for the sake of argument it is, at least, reasonable that those folks would be expected to spend a good portion of what they save.

I can appreciate the argument that focused spending will yield better results than allowing us to spend the money on whatever whim we may have, but I don't think we got that either.

"how about giving every TAXPAYER $2,000 refund in the form of a debit card that expires in 60 days?"

Makes more sense than Boortz.

"How is Biden putting his foot in his mouth by admitting that the administration didn't get something right?"

Well, given the $$$ cost, why would you beleive them again regarding healthcare, cap and tax......

Its not like Obama has a long list of economic brilliance and this one time he miss read it, they miss read thier first and only time. There are two more huge bills on the line, now who are you going to trust, him or your lying eyes.

I believe they were wrong, but for a political tactic, it might have been best for him to save this information for later..... foot meet mouth....again...

do you mean it wasn't as great as McCain claimed?

"This "admission" is hardly a reason to be opposed to the stimulus, more like a reason to be even more in favor of both it and possibly another one too."

LOL. I figured Biden was greasing the skids for another stimulus package, I just didn't think anyone would be stupid enough to fall for it. Enter Danni.

Translation: We had to take care of our largest campaign contributors first, regardless of their values or behavior.

"The truth is, we and everyone else misread the economy"
* * * *

Actually, that is not the truth. My trading screens have been flashing scarlet red for almost a year--Thousands of market practitioners, hedge fund operators, economists, and guys who do this for a living knew what was going on, and that Washington was making it worse. The only question is, how much more good money are dumbasses like ObamaGeithnerBiden going to throw after bad?

Methinks, a lot more. So, things will get worse, and six months from now, Joey is going to be saying that "everyone misread the economy six months ago." And he'll be lying then too.

how about giving every TAXPAYER $2,000 refund in the form of a debit card that expires in 60 days?

#22 | Posted by Maverick at 2009-07-06 10:08 AM

Why put a band aid on the real issue, which is the outsourcing of US jobs to overseas by US corporations who operate under both the legal and military protection of the US government. Remember what a smart guy with a long beard and a big hat said: the US government is "of the people, by the people, for the people".

Maybe some of these wealth horders(CEO club) need to be reminded of this. But with the current entrenched "representatives" nothing will change. Obama won't do it, he can't. The only peaple that can do it are the voters. But remember, Michael Jackson's funeral is this week, so the "third estate" has to get ready for that.

Maybe this is required?

"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."
-- Thomas Jefferson 1787

Well, this means that they lied. If you listen to any liberal or dem they will say that Bush lied about Iraq when he said basically the exact same thing as Biden just said. So, Biden and Obama both lied to us about the economy and the stimulus. It's that simple. Liars.

The next post will be something along these lines. Yeah, but nobody died from their lie. It's okay. Excuse it all you want.

I'd rather have the Obama administration admit its mistakes than to take Bush's course and tell us it's sunny outside when we can all see it's raining.

#13 | Posted by rcade

I see. When Obama says he misread something he's telling the truth but when Bush says that he misread something he is obviously lying. Real consistent.

STOPPIT, DANNI!

i'd like a nickel for every time you offer up the word "reaganomics".

#10 | Posted by nanc

As opposed to Obamanomics... "Trickle up Poverty"

The majority of that 750 billion would be taxes not paid by wealthy people who won't be buying new lawn mowers or anything else. Exactly the problem created with supplyside economics.-Danni

Look everyone. Danni just admitted that the rich pay most of the taxes.

slick, i'm not suggesting that the $2000 is a fix, just a jump start.

Also, 7-8% of the $2000 would become sales tax revenue for the state and local governments.

Maverick,

The only problem with your plan is that money might go to some nig..er.. lazy poor people.

Didn't you know they are poor because they are lazy?

The economic meltdown is incredibly difficult to overcome. I'd rather have the Obama administration admit its mistakes than to take Bush's course and tell us it's sunny outside when we can all see it's raining.

#13 | Posted by rcade

I agree. which is why Paul's bill to audit the fed has so much resistance & will most likely never be done.

The Danni's of the world have forgotten their roots of where the source of American imperialism began.

Hence the ideology of power versus love continues non stop to the inevitable demise of common sense capitalism to outright socialism which the Money Masters ~ who also continue to own the FED ~ continue to pretend to finance while we the taxpayers ultimately pay with lost of personal freedoms & what nots.

Mayer Amschel Rothschild quote: Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws.

Ha ha, the libs misunderestimated Dubya's ability to fuck over the economy.

The Right
Oh..........

Salaryman, I assume from your comment that you want everyone to recieve the $2000, even the "poor people" that are already receiving gov. assistance. Or, maybe you should give me your definition of "poor people"?

As a matter of fact lower income people should especially should receive some stimulus. They are much more likely to spend it and help get the wheels turning again.

"The fact is that if McCain would have been elected and McCain would have decreased the spending, then the economy would have been on the up turn."

funi flag material?

These idiots didn't misread anything. Their policies were just the exact opposite of what was needed to help the economy improve. I don't believe this administration cares about fixing the economy. Their overriding goal is implementing their agenda. With the blessings of the morons who make up his 60% approval rating, he is emboldened to continue.

"With the blessings of the morons who make up his 60% approval rating"

Do you really blame anyone who just had to witness the worst governance in nearly a century?

perfect tee for joe:

Good excuse for giving a raving Maxist a blank check. And the worst governance in the last century belonged to Jimmy Carter....until now.

The worse I thought was Taft actually. He suffered from sleep apnea and was constantly falling asleep. He did lose weight and became a great Supreme Court justice however.

" the worst governance in the last century belonged to Jimmy Carter....until now."

Nice to meet you, Mr. Van Winkle.

And the worst governance in the last century belonged to Jimmy Carter....until now.

Posted by nevadastu

not quite...FED rose the rates to 20% during his term...hence the october surprise in Paris with MJ fan George Bush sr & the Iranian remains fascinating still:>)

"a raving Maxist"

Is that the "-ist" of the day? 'Cause yesterday he was a Socialist, and the day before a Communist.

And raving?!? Really?

perhaps they should have given the tea leaves a second chance?

nanc gets a ff for area 51 joke:>)

Biden acknowledged administration officials were too optimistic earlier this year when they predicted the unemployment rate would peak at 8 percent as part of their effort to sell the stimulus package. The national unemployment rate has ballooned to 9.5 percent in June -- the worst in 26 years.

Fact is they would say anything to get elected... They knew damn well where we were headed but promissed you all the Moon in one word. "CHANGE"

Well the time will come when these BS artists are thrown out of office. They knew they couldn't do a damn thing about the economy... They even offered you a free house... And you all bought it...

Change This! Ya lying bastards.

And the pictures of the Pres running along behind his wife toting his own books is a disgrace...

Somebody educate this moron before he gets us all killed.

Somebody educate this moron before he gets us all killed.

Posted by bashthis

first self retort of the day here?

"And the pictures of the Pres running along behind his wife toting his own books is a disgrace..."

yes, she definitely should have been behind HIM toting the books. that will certainly save u.s. from being killed.

Or, maybe you should give me your definition of "poor people"?

#40 | Posted by Maverick

That would be anyone with less than 2 big screen TVs, only one expensive cell phone and a chemical dependency.

And the administration's still misreading the economy as some are ignorant enough to be proposing another stimulus!

Can't avoid the fact though that supply side, trickle down economics has ruined the economy of the US.

#15 | Posted by danni

PLEASE, show me where trickle up economics has worked.

do you mean it wasn't as great as McCain claimed?

#27 | Posted by northguy3

McCain voted against the bill dipshit.

#12 - The link he posts is to the Ultra Conspiracy Theory Website--Prison Planet

Instead of propaganda, why don't you intelligently prove what is mistaken instead of ridiculous hyperbole. The analysis leads to unmistakable conclusion, unless you're just a partisan who can't handle the truth! Actually read it and get an education.

Do you really blame anyone who just had to witness the worst governance in nearly a century?

#44 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-07-06 12:18 PM

You shouldn't be so hard on Omama's first few months in office. Remember, this is the first real job he has ever held that had any accountability. Lay off him for a while.

That would be anyone with less than 2 big screen TVs, only one expensive cell phone and a chemical dependency.

#56 | Posted by Sniper at 2009-07-06 01:39 PM

Funny Flag

Do you really blame anyone who just had to witness the worst governance in nearly a century?

#44 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-07-06 12:18 PM

You shouldn't be so hard on Omama's first few months in office. Remember, this is the first real job he has ever held that had any accountability. Lay off him for a while.

#61 | Posted by slicksterWilly

Very true.

Danforth, I know that Bush made mistakes, but if you really want to ignore what Obama and the Dems in Congress did in the last several months and not want to discuss it, that's your business.

However, an your responsibility as an American, you should be holding them accountable!

You really need to admit that you made a mistake with your vote. I don't mean that you should have voted for McCain, I mean vote more intelligently instead of "voting for the winner"

"if you really want to ignore what Obama and the Dems in Congress did in the last several months and not want to discuss it, that's your business."

If you want to discuss it, go right ahead. Just don't think I'll fall for the "Bush's responsibility ended the moment he handed off the steering wheel" bit.

"However, an your responsibility as an American, you should be holding them accountable!"

Interesting that "accountable" has just come into so many people's vernaculars.

"You really need to admit that you made a mistake with your vote. I don't mean that you should have voted for McCain, I mean vote more intelligently instead of "voting for the winner""

I'm very happy with my vote. It helped get the worst governance of my lifetime out of power.

It helped get the worst governance of my lifetime out of power.

#64 | POSTED BY DANFORTH
---------

Are you under the impression that your vote for Obama got George Bush out of office? I hate to break the news at this late date, but U.S. Presidency is limited to two terms. He was leaving anyway.

#19 | Posted by noobama

Brilliant....Except I'd probably toss a bunch in savings, pay down credit cards and other bills, and buy crap from over seas a bit (where most products come from). And all of that would do nothing for the economy. So I'd say a good 10% of the money I'd save in the tax break would benefit the country directly. SWING and a miss. Exactly why leading economists think this idea is nothing but party propoganda.

Instead, spend the money. Goes back mainly to the American tax payer in benefits and wages they would otherwise have to pay for anyway. And we get something out of it! Please read Keynes...and ironically, Adam Smith.

"Are you under the impression that your vote for Obama got George Bush out of office?"

No, there's this little group running around today calling themselves Republicans, who absolutely sucked at governing and had to be stopped.

I miss the old Rs, the real ones, who believed in small government, personal freedom, and fiscal sanity. Send me another and you've got my vote again.

Obama's cabinet is a joke.

Hooked on phonics worked for me!

The Anti-war candidate was all smoke and mirrors.
War on Terror is still up and running.

Who put a one-term Freshman Senator in the White House? Such a landslide over McCain!?... see Ronnie's 1st election.

"Who put a one-term Freshman Senator in the White House?"

The shitty Republican governance, and the voters in the Democratic primaries.

Well, thatnot the best news, but at leas they didn't misread the cost of a War ............or the number of lives it would cost.....or the time to fight it.

Can I then pose a question to those who voted for BHO in the Dem. primary?

Do you support a 2nd stimulus pkg.?

#67 | POSTED BY DANFORTH
-------

I see your point but I've taken it one step further. I don't vote for anyone affiliated with either party anymore. New, old, or otherwise.

Hmmmm....I guess I should have proof read that last post.

No shizzle! Obama couldn't "read" his own name without a teleprompter.

What our presidents do today will not be valued or recognized for years to come as how they really affect(ed) us. All I can say for now is that, I have no idea how we will generate money to pay for all the present spending and since it is clearly over what was being spent "a la Bush" if we were screwed then, were screwed more now. Stimuls my A**. Build the fence, tax em' while there here, make people work and no more freebies. You work hard, you deserve to get paid more. Plain and simple.

Their acceptance that they miscalculated... says a lot for their pre-election B.S. I didn't want change. I just wanted what was here to be better. The people on the lower end need to find out why they are there and for the most part work harder? study, go to school, compete... Not be a "Leech" I could have even had it better had I been willing to sacrifice more. Until we learn to get away from the "I deserve it society" (Basically a stereotypical Democrat philosphy) times will be tough. Time to tell people it will be tough and you better be willing to work as hard as your neighbor to have what he has... Not tell everyone you deserve it for nothing...

I miss the old Rs, the real ones, who believed in small government, personal freedom, and fiscal sanity. Send me another and you've got my vote again.

#67 | Posted by Danforth
* * * *

LMAO. Sure. In the meantime, you'll vote for enormous government, federalization of freedoms, and blockbuster budget deficits. Until the R's get their act together, that is.

Spare me the BS.

"Spare me the BS."

Was Dubya the worst governance to date in your lifetime or not?

Was Dubya the worst governance to date in your lifetime or not?

#77 | Posted by Danforth

Thus far, Obama is poised to magnify your complaints of Bush 4-5-fold.

Obama is POTUS now.

Not Bush.

Bush-deflections, at this point, are rather lame.

Obama still has a fawning media, the little spat just prior to his most recent townhall session notwithstanding. Having said that, at some point, he WILL be defined by his actions and decisions, and NOT his flowery rhetoric. This is especially true given the fact that he's decided to make the decision to utilize the real and imagined crises as an excuse to push a huge agenda. He now has a strong majority in the house and a filibuster-proof senate. He can do whatever the hell he wants. However, he is now FULLY accountable for the results of his actions. Even a sympathetic and adoring media can't cover for him indefinitely.

Until January it was. Then it was somebody else. But he wasn't on the ballot in November.

People like you are hysterical, Danforth. You get on here and wax nostalgic for Barry Goldwater types. If half the people who pretended to love AuH2O had voted for him, he would have been president.

So you'll forgive my reluctance to believe your affinity for small-government conservatives, when you go into the booth and throw the switch for Obama. Conservatives never had your vote, and never will, so stop kidding yourself.

"when you go into the booth and throw the switch for Obama."

I threw the switch against the Republicans. Dems happened to be on the other side.

"Conservatives never had your vote, and never will"

I'm sure Jack Danforth will be surprised to hear he's not a conservative.

How is Biden putting his foot in his mouth by admitting that the administration didn't get something right?

The economic meltdown is incredibly difficult to overcome. I'd rather have the Obama administration admit its mistakes than to take Bush's course and tell us it's sunny outside when we can all see it's raining.

#13 | Posted by rcade

Biden, a 36 year US Sr Senator, Jud committee, For Relations committee, pres campaigns 1998 & 2008, and on and on and on . .
as a Sr senator in the Majority party they (w/Barry when he was there) controlled ALL spending since 2006 -

In 2008 the economy was flat or shrinking - contracting 6% in the 4th quarter -

unemployment was nearing 7% on inauguration day

the car companies were going broke - 2 of the BIG-3 were begging for $$ to keep their doors open

AIG, Sacks, et all went broke in '08 till revived by the Fed

global recession occured

and since he took office the administration has been vocal in assuring "business" that they will be punished with higher cost of doing business - unknown energy costs - energy (coal) forced into bankruptcy

emergency stim bill that spends most after 2012

almost forgot - they gave the peons an extra $13 a week to revive the economy (to be taxed later)

gosh - even a guy with half a brain could see that

"In the meantime, you'll vote for enormous government, federalization of freedoms, and blockbuster budget deficits"

Too funny. That's exactly what you got last time, before voting for the guy again.

Ya think Biden???

Now they want another stimulus??

What part of their campaign did they not understand as the "worst ecomony since the Great Depression"??

Now they want another stimulus??

#83 | Posted by MURPHY

Are you, uhm, confused again?

WASHINGTON (Reuters) President Barack Obama and his advisers do not favor second stimulus package now to cut the highest U.S. unemployment rate in nearly 26 years, Vice President Joe Biden said in an interview aired on Sunday.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) President Barack Obama could discuss a second stimulus package to boost the economy if needed, but at the moment no more new money looks necessary, a top White House adviser said on Sunday.

Associated Press - A senior White House adviser said Sunday the economic stimulus has not yet "broken the back of the recession" but set aside calls for a second massive spending bill.

#84 | Posted by SanAntonioRogue

politicians lie through their teeth.

I really do hope that Obama is genuine in his call for no more stimululs.

However, I will wait and see if he lives up to his rhetoric.

I'm sure Jack Danforth will be surprised to hear he's not a conservative.

Posted by Danforth

You can tell him from me that he isn't remotely conservative.

"In the meantime, you'll vote for enormous government, federalization of freedoms, and blockbuster budget deficits"

Too funny. That's exactly what you got last time, before voting for the guy again.

#82 | Posted by Danforth

Deflectionforth is at it again.

Question for you Danforth....do you belive you have voted for someone who is advocating enormous government, federalization of freedoms and blockbuster budget deficits? Please, no history lessons....just answer the question.

"do you belive you have voted for someone who is advocating enormous government, federalization of freedoms and blockbuster budget deficits?"

I believe I've voted for someone who won't invade and occupy another Iraq, won't slash taxes for billionaires, and won't suggest creating a subset of second-class citizens.

I also remember it was a Dem at the helm the last time we had anything close to a balanced budget, so I still hold out hope. Maybe it's fruitless; I certainly haven't agreed with the concept of trying to borrow your way out of a borrowing crisis. I also disagree with the increased size of the government (but I disagreed when the Rs were doing it, too...therein lies a difference), but I don't see this "federalization of freedoms" of which you speak.

Further, I'm completely against cap & trade as it exists; if we need more tax revenue (and we probably do) we should add the tax and try NEVER to add a layer of bureaucracy. And since government revenues federally & locally will probably shrink, so should the size of the administration (i.e. the government).

I believe I've voted for someone who won't invade and occupy another Iraq, won't slash taxes for billionaires, and won't suggest creating a subset of second-class citizens.

I also remember it was a Dem at the helm the last time we had anything close to a balanced budget, so I still hold out hope

thanks for the history lesson. I knew the request would be rejected. However the rest of your answer was spot on. fair enough.

"knew the request would be rejected."

Huh? I admitted the spending is too big, I'm against the expansion via C&T, and I don't know what 'federalization' you're talking about.

What about the request didn't get addressed, other than my question to you?

and I don't know what 'federalization' you're talking about.

I think RiR was referring to the notion of nationized health care.

I asked to not get a history lesson.

"You can tell (former Senator Jack Danforth) from me that he isn't remotely conservative."

He believed in keeping government out of folks lives, keeping government small, separating church & state, and fiscal responsibility. Which one of those views aren't conservative?

"As a senator, I worried every day about the size of the federal deficit. I did not spend a single minute worrying about the effect of gays on the institution of marriage. Today it seems to be the other way around."

He believed in keeping government out of folks lives, keeping government small, separating church & state, and fiscal responsibility. Which one of those views aren't conservative?

I was referring to you.

"The truth is, there was a misreading of just how bad an economy we inherited," said Biden, who is leading the administration's effort to implement it's $787 billion economic stimulus plan.

Misreading of just how bad?

WTF?!?!?

You and Barry have been claiming "worst since the Great Depression" for months?

What is worse that that?

What a bunch of clowns.

I believe in balanced budgets, a strong defense, the state of Israel, non-interventionism, and smaller government, all "conservative" positions. I also believe in workers' rights, equality for all, and a woman having the final say over her own body, all "liberal" positions.

Pigeonhole as needed.

You are a hippie Republican.

I believe in balanced budgets, a strong defense, the state of Israel, non-interventionism, and smaller government, all "conservative" positions.

I know, you have posted that before.

on topics such as taxes and healthcare you take very liberal positions so you can sell the "smaller government" belief elsewhere. I'm not buying it.

that is okay though. You have the right to be liberal. IMO, you should be less ashamed about it though.

I'm out for tonight.

Me too...

Later gaters..

"on topics such as taxes and healthcare you take very liberal positions so you can sell the "smaller government" belief elsewhere. "

Look, I don't know the answers in regards to health care. All I know is the current path is unsustainable, and you know that too. Medical inflation has been outpacing core inflation for as long as we've been around it, and it's only going to get worse. All I can see as an answer to the macro problem soon facing us is cutting the per capita health costs. That may force a government answer just to lower our % of GDP spent on health care. If you have an different answer, bring it to the table.

Regarding taxes, what liberal position have I ever taken? All I've ever suggested is we pay our bills. Isn't that, at its core, a conservative position?

And speaking conservative/liberal, my views on equality are also conservative, I believe. The book I read warns against how I treat "the least of my brethren", and reminds me to do unto others the way I'd want them to do unto me.

danforth - i have a great deal of respect for you, but you're implying that Yeshua is a socialist and while on the surface He was all about doing for others, He would never have implied using the robin hood mentality - when you have time, i would ask that you read the following:

so they misread the economy

BUT WAIT A MIN...are they telling us that all those times they swore that it was the worst economy since the great depression that they were...WRONG>............gulp

you mean the same people who want us to TRUST Them with our health care and energy and EVERY aspect of our everyday lives MISREAD THE ECONOMY

well shit fellers.......WHOWOUOLDATHUNKI
T???????

"The truth is, we and everyone else misread the economy," Vice President Joe Biden said during a This Week interview in Iraq.

They read it well enough to figure out how to funnel more tax dollars into the coffers of Wall Street bankers and to give more power to the Fed Reserve, a quasi private entity. And "liberals" just loooove it!

"you're implying that Yeshua is a socialist and while on the surface He was all about doing for others, He would never have implied using the robin hood mentality"

Where did I imply that?

I'm suggesting Christians act like Christians, and start living the Book instead of paying lip service. Trying to create a "least of my brethren" subset, doing unto them what we wouldn't done unto ourselves, and pretending it's what Christ would have wanted is a textbook example of missing the point.

"The truth is, we and everyone else misread the economy," Vice President Joe Biden said during a This Week interview in Iraq. Biden acknowledged administration officials were too optimistic earlier this year when they predicted the unemployment rate would peak at 8 percent. The national unemployment rate has ballooned to 9.5 percent in June -- the worst in 26 years.

Maybe if you had actually tried to READ the economy or at least a book on economics you might have understood that WE are the economy. It's not a machine to be tinkered with. It's people with free will. Something your kind doesn't understand.

Does anyone actually believe that they misread anything? How can you misread something that you don't understand in the first place? Now they want a second stimulus! This is ridiculous and it needs to stop now! How in the world can they be trusted when it is so obvious that they don't have a clue as to what is going on? We would be right in the same spot we are now if no money was spent. If they do another stimulus you can kiss the next several years good bye because we will be fucked. Taxes are going to be through the roof and if you think that only under 250.000 will be taxed you are a fool.

"We would be right in the same spot we are now if no money was spent."

No mainstream economist or economic historian agrees with this. Yet this is thrown around as though it were etched in stone. The one thing I know is that whoever makes such claims is not someone to whom I ascribe credibility.

#103 | Posted by Danforth

i agree wholeheartedly, but stealing the money of the people to prop up all these social programs is not exactly charitable - charity is and should remain a gift. all that's happening may be what the church needs to awaken and pick up the mantle and do what they're called to do according to the bible. hard as people may try to make Jesus a hardcore socialist, nothing could be farther from the truth.

When a president of a company comes to the board of directors and says that he has MISREAD the situation, like at GM or Lehmans. Does the left suggest that we continue on with the same failed policies and offer him another change to get it right or do they think he is an idiot and demand his resignation?

Is the POTUS and his group of consultants and yse men any differnt?

Either Joe Biden is a truth telling machine and Obama is all about spin or Biden is a complete idiot.

From what I've read, Biden is stating that he, and most economists, underestimated the severity of the economic crisis. Nothing startling there. I'm concerned that he is tying the economic recovery with the unemployment statistics. Historical unemployment recovery lags economic recovery by a significant time frame, sometimes years. If he doesn't understand this, I'm not inclined to accept his assesement of the situation and therefore question his proposed further solutions.

I think unemployment is such an issue for him because he was put in charge of the effort to use the stimulus money in the most effective way to create jobs. Therefore, although the issue is in actuality out of his hands on the general level, his ass _is_ on the line. Have fun, Joey B.

"... stealing the money of the people to prop up all these social programs is not exactly charitable - charity is and should remain a gift."

Wait a minute...you want to mix church with state, until the church has responsibilities?!? And how is taxation stealing? Didn't Jesus say "render unto Caesar"...?

"hard as people may try to make Jesus a hardcore socialist, nothing could be farther from the truth."

Yea, that 'feed the hungry, heal the lame, nurture the sick' stuff was one big fakeout.

July 7 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. should consider drafting a second stimulus package focusing on infrastructure projects because the $787 billion approved in February was "a bit too small," said Laura Tyson, an outside adviser to President Barack Obama.

The current plan "will have a positive effect, but the real economy is a sicker patient," Tyson said in a speech in Singapore today.

She's a member of Obama's Economic Recovery Advisory board. Conflict of interest much?

Either Joe Biden is a truth telling machine and Obama is all about spin or Biden is a complete idiot.

#109 | Posted by laj at 2009

mmmmmmmmmm thats a tough choice you gave us

As Joe meathead Biden, the 'chosen' to run the stimulus plan said

"The truth is, there was a misreading of just how bad an economy we inherited," Vice President Joe Biden told ABC News. Really?

What about the "worst economy since the Great Depression"?

"Yet, says Biden: "The truth of the matter was, no one anticipated, no one expected that the recovery package would in fact be in a position at this point of having to distribute the bulk of the money."

"But that's not the "truth of the matter" at all. Many economists and conservative politicians warned explicitly about this very problem. So did IBD. And so did numerous other media outlets. The notion that no one brought it up is simply false."

ibdeditorials.com

So much for the stimulus promised to be "temporary, targeted and timely"

#12 - earthmuse -
your propaganda technique is called ad hominem. Get some intelligence, retard.