Hell yaaa. Lets freeze in the dark.

Families, including their helpless children are subjected to round the clock dynamite noise, mud slides from ruptured taillings ponds that bury entire towns, groundwater and river contamination. One elementary school where half the school chilrend have emphasema was unable to force a mining company to move its tailings pond, which could drown the school. Where the coal companies tread, they leave a lifeless ecological disaster for the taxpayer to deal with. The fix is in politically, from the Feds to locals and the Courts. Hillbillies are like Indians, expendable.

nut, you are talking about practices that happened a long time ago. There are many new regulations on the industry that have gone into effect since the 1970s to keep that from happening.

Wrong, the elementary school I spoke of was a 60 moinutes documentary this last year. Those children are expendable.

Mountaintop destruction continues in full force. The hillbillies that used to live quietly in their shacks on squirrels and home grown tomatoes are routinely displaced.

A condition to the mining was put in place to restore mountaintops after coal extraction. But one mining company sued because they don't want to do it and BushCo let them leave the mess behind without spending a dime.

BushCo let them leave the mess behind without spending a dime.

Next on the hit list: oil shale mining.

I grew up in Alabama, in the foot-hills of the appalachians. Some of my earliest memories are of these strip mining operations.

The old ones just left gashes and scars on the earth, which would eventually erode into a real mess. Later on, federal regulations cleaned up most of that. The mining operations are supposed to return the land back to some usable form. My experience is that it ain't perfect, but it's way better than it used to be.

In my area, I suppose it was better because the operations were in areas that were already inhabited and very visible. In most cases, they would whack off the top of a small mountain, when they were finished, they'd kinda smooth it out and end up with hilly pasture land.

3 points here;

1) they will not stop digging until they get all the coal. they won't even attempt to reclaim the land until they stop digging.

2) it will never ever be healthy to live next to a strip mining operation.

3) coal fired power plants need coal to run.

"coal fired power plants"

Nasty, nasty things.

"coal fired power plants"

Nasty, nasty things.

#9 | Posted by Zatoichi

all are scrubbed to some degree, with most having plans in process to upgrade to the latest technology if they don't get screwed by the energy bill.

today's technology - -

a) NOx (acid rain stuff) - - Selective catalytic reduction systems (SCRs) remove 90+ percent of NOx emissions . .
a chemical reaction converts the NOx into harmless nitrogen and water.

b) SO2 (more acid rain stuff) - - Flue gas desulfurization systems (FGD systems or scrubbers) remove up to 98 percent of SO2 emissions .. .
a chemical reaction forms calcium sulfate = gypsum (drywall)

c) fly ash (soot) Electrostatic precipitators (ESPs) remove 99 percent of the fly ash from power plant emissions.

btw, china is still adding/constructing 2+ coal power plants per month - - no scrubbers on chinese plants -

42 new china coal power plants since 2007 and still building more - -
yikes, we could do coast to coast windmills & still be pissin' in the environmental wind

...But one mining company sued because they don't want to do it and BushCo let them leave the mess behind without spending a dime.

#5 | Posted by nutcase at 2009-07-05 11:19 AM

got a link??

#6 | Posted by markh at 2009-07-05 11:22 AM

In an 11th hour move by Bush 43 just before leaving office he allowed the strip mining companies to overturn the protective law in place prohibiting the strip mining companies from dumping all their waste into nearby streams -- a law in place since Ronald Reagan was in office. Reagan at least had a love of the land, and so did Bush's father and Clinton. Bush 43 could care less. Obama needs to step up to the plate and put the protective measures back in place.

Here's the link you wanted --

If Red Staters want to destroy their own backyard, all while ridiculing anyone who thinks it's not the best idea, then who are we to stop them?

Keep it up!

thanx I'll check it out

When you consider that the US exports coal, that this form of mininig employs relatively few people and that the damage to the mountains is premanent it just doesn't seem to me that America is getting a good deal. There are other ways to mine coal, we did it for a very long time in this country before the first strip mine was ever dug. We're letting the profiteers use fear of higher energy prices to get us to allow them to destroy entire mountains. Our kids and our kid's, kids will someday hate the people who allowed this to happen.

yeah this will really be nice.
in a short time if cap and tax goes through, and the coal industry is out of business, why would we need to mine anything....maybe we can find some more terrorist countries to give our money to
IF WE HAVE ANY TO SPEND

I didn't get my check from a coal company this year AFK, did you??? Tell me why I should want my grandchildren to see flattened mountains just so that someone can live in a 4,000 sq. foot house.
This isn't about cheap energy, it's about coal company profits, and those corporations have you convinced that what is good for them is good for everyone and nothing could be further from the truth.

I didn't get my check from a coal company this year AFK, did you??? Tell me why I should want my grandchildren to see flattened mountains just so that someone can live in a 4,000 sq. foot house.
This isn't about cheap energy, it's about coal company profits, and those corporations have you convinced that what is good for them is good for everyone and nothing could be further from the truth.

#16 | Posted by danni

- power can be supplied to hospitals healing people

- factories have power to provide jobs & produce necessities

- schools & universities are not forced to educate young
people by candle light

- runways and transportation routes can be well lit

- ballparks have adequate lighting to allow the hitter to see a 96 mph FB heaading toward his chin

danny, u r one twisted sister -

ah but you see, you are arguing with nonsense points...as you again give us your anti business, anti profit rant........

lets see...we became the wealthiest country of all times
and countries that dems want us to be like or either struggling or GONE>.

yeah sure....enjoy that view while people are losing jobs and all

and besides,..just as I said when you and your side were talking about oil from iraq
when you car wont run because of no gas, you and the other libs wont care where it came from

same thing here
when little old ladies are freezing without coal to heat thier house...they AND YOU wont care where it was mined from.......

(OOPS>>>I used the little old lady card...sorry bout that..LOL)

mark

her arguments against business and profits dont have room for your common sense answers...
her hatred and biased opinions of those blind her to the logical comments of yours..

BUT my momma told me to try and find something nice to say to everyone

so...at least danni is blind like that all the time..

BA DUMP DUMP...

So those ridiculous windmills desecrating those same Appalachians to produce electricity are beautiful because they are "green?" Gimme a break.

Shut them down now. Who cares if the coal fired power plants go dark. Don't need no stinkin' electricity.....

but hey DIABLO

just think of all those windmills in MASS churing out that electicity

OOPS SORRY >....forget that TEDDY nixed thouse because it spoiled his view

NEVERMIND................

and dont forget one IMPORTANT comment from obama

in san fran during the campaign

electricity rates will "necesarily skyrocket"

and he would stop someone from building coal plants but they would "BANKRUPT"

he was TELLING US he was going to get rid of coal and DUPES werent listening.........

WOULDNT STOP

toy boat
toy boat
toy boat

Until we can actually start building new nuclear plants again, we're stuck with coal.

And unfortunately, mountaintop removal is the safest way to get it. It's a necessary evil until we can come up with something better.

But don't worry, there's plenty of mountains left - even large national parks that you can go visit and look at the pretty mountains.

The ultimate fix, of course, is to get over the irrational fear and start building REAL clean energy facilities that can actually supply our needs - more nuclear plants.

I wish they would dig out some of those West Virginia mountains for coal. The highways would become safer if they leveled them.
Of couse the Kyoto "kill western manufacturing" treaty would allow China to burn all the coal they want.

So you want to kill more jobs just in case one day you want to go view the Appalachians. Funny I was in the Appalachians last week, didn't see any coal operations. Dig away. Clean the omissions. Clean up any mess you left behind. Everyone wins.

"Of couse the Kyoto "kill western manufacturing" treaty would allow China to burn all the coal they want."

Is that just a talking point or do you have a link to anything that documents that statement?
If it does as you say then I would have serious questions about the Kyoto agreement.

where will all the electicity come from for all the plug in cars?

"where will all the electicity come from for all the plug in cars?"

The wall, silly.

Duh!

"Shut them down now. Who cares if the coal fired power plants go dark. Don't need no stinkin' electricity....."

YEAH!

As if Mountain Top Removal is the only way to get Coal!

What Simpltons you and snipe Are!

Greenies admit that these coal companies are blowing the tops off of old worn out mountains. Actually the process not only provides us with black gold but it leaves room for young mountains to grow.

What Simpltons you and snipe Are!

#33 | Posted by Redneckville

I guess you don't use any fossil fuel at all. Have you ever been out of the county you were born in?

Is your cave well stocked with stone pointed spears. I need to know because I may be comming after your stock of dried meat , nuts, and fruit.

Destroy your own backyards, red staters. Here, I'll help you by leaving my lights on when I go out. Turn your shit-holes into even bigger shit-holes. I could not care less!

the process not only provides us with black gold but it leaves room for young mountains to grow.

#34 | Posted by fwthom at 2009-07-05 09:52 PM | Reply

Just like a reasonable annual harvest of whales is sustainable, so is a responsible harvest of mountaintops.

Besides, the coal companies only blow up the sick and weak mountains. It's like culling the herd to keep it healthy.

"Just like a reasonable annual harvest of whales is sustainable, so is a responsible harvest of mountaintops."

That is perhaps the stupidest statement I've ever read. Just out of curiosity, how long does it take a mountain top to grow back in your "responsible harvest"????
Whale reproduce at a slow rate but they do reproduce, I didn't know mountains did.

"That is perhaps the stupidest statement I've ever read."

I'm pretty sure they were both kidding.

But I've been wrong before.

You are right, I went off without thinking.

In the liberal world of moral equivalence, flat land should have the same respect as mountains. Therefore blowing the tops off a few mountains shouldn't make any difference.

Okay, FWad wasn't kidding.

He was being facetious and attempting to knock down a straw man of his own making.

1. U.S. energy needs are not going to wished away by green fantasies. The energy needs will continue to be huge. No one should be forced to go without A/C or heat or transportation, etc.

2. Until such time as COMPETATIVE alternative energy becomes available in enough quantity, we'll need the stuff folks don't like.

3. That means choosing from four catagories:

A: Nuclear (My favorate).
B: Coal (My 2nd choice)
C: Oil
D: Huddle in the dark while your children slowly die in front of you due to not enough food, medical help, no heat, etc.... (but you get to feel good about saving the environment....)

I won't prefer oil again until gas drops to under one dollar a gallon (no joke, but I'm not expecting it any time soon....).

Everything else is pipe dreams for now, and for the foreseeable future.

"Until such time as COMPETATIVE alternative energy becomes available in enough quantity"

There is the problem. Of course coal when mined using strip mining techniques is going to be cheaper than developing new forms of energy.
That is exactly why we need to create new ways to make energy costs more reflective of the entire cost, not just the up front cost. Those streams being polluted also carry a huge cost for the economy but the coal companies are avoiding those costs and making a quick profit, leaving permanent scars and ruined ecosystems. If you think mountain streams are just nice scenery appreciated by green folks you are seriously mistaken. Your family will enjoy the temporary energy derived from that coal but will suffer permanently from the ruination of a source of fresh water.

I just gave Danni a newsworthy flag.

Coal can be mined by the traditional methods. The coal companies don't want to do it because its too hard. They also don't want to have to clean up the mess they leave behind, or implement basic protections so the environmental damage is minimized.

Its not just the greenies that are complaining. A lot of mountain folks hate the process and have tried to stop it. They are stuck though because they also need the jobs. Traditional mining is more labor intensive and pays better, so the switch to strip mining has taken jobs out of Appalachia.

"That is perhaps the stupidest statement I've ever read."

Clearly Vernon and F W Thom share the same calculator..

A: Nuclear (My favorate).
B: Coal (My 2nd choice)
C: Oil
D: Huddle in the dark while your children slowly die in front of you due to not enough food, medical help, no heat, etc.... (but you get to feel good about saving the environment....)

I won't prefer oil again until gas drops to under one dollar a gallon (no joke, but I'm not expecting it any time soon....).

Everything else is pipe dreams for now, and for the foreseeable future.

#43 | Posted by USAF242 at 2009-07-06 10:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

There's no need to guess where you're coming from after reading choice 'D'. Anyone who would include that to make their point is nothing but a drama queen.

"where will all the electicity come from for all the plug in cars?"

The wall, silly.

#30 | Posted by Danforth

Where the fuck does "the wall" come from dude????

But fuck the US citizens. Let's bankrupt those evil coal companies and mandate 100% renewables....at a cost of 400%++ more.

Think of all the "un-outsourceable" jobs we will create and solve all our financial problems!!

To the zero it makes sense to stick it to "the man". Even if that is every man, women, and child in the US...

"Where the fuck does "the wall" come from dude"

It's spelled j-o-k-e.

Duh!

"Where the fuck does "the wall" come from dude????

#49 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2009-07-06 06:06 PM | Reply | Flag: WE DON'T NEED NO EDUCATION