These people are crazy. The current system is working great.

when i heard this on the radio last night i just about tipped over in my chair - nudge, my arse - it's an out and out threat if THIS doesn't get people to thinking about the wool being pulled over our eyes, i don't know what will.

Big brother is here.

Fine, just another word for tax.

Like you idiots know what you're talking about. I guess you missed the part where current coverage for a family is over 12,000. Employers would no longer have to pay that, or the cost would be reduced drastically.

Maybe you should link to something that has the actual health plan in it instead of some right wing slash article full of bullshit.

#5 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

12k? Just another leftwing bullshit number.

Time to head to the links, later trolls.

Why should anyone be forced to get health insurance if they don't want it? This is fucking insane.

Called "shared responsibility payments," the fines would offset at least half the cost of basic medical coverage, according to the legislation. The goal is to nudge people to sign up for coverage when they are healthy, not wait until they get sick.

You got to love the wording "shared responsibility payments." I will responsible for offsetting half the cost of people signing up for insurance when they are healthy? Define healthy. Considering we are the fattest and unhealthiest nation, how many are actually considered healthy to begin with? Now if they charge by the pound...

fuck the poor

Like all major legslation done lately, there is no bill. It will be seen hours before the vote and be over 1000 pages long. Talk about buying a "pig in a poke".

Big brother is here.

Why are people required to get auto insurance but not required to get health insurance? If health insurance was mandatory in this country and insurers had to take everybody regardless of pre-existing conditions, everybody's rates would go way down.

It also would let people quit jobs they hated which they've only stayed in to keep insurance. How much more productive would workers be if millions were doing what they wanted to do?

You got to love the wording "shared responsibility payments."

Yeah ... somebody on the Democratic side was trying to be Frank Luntz.

"Why are people required to get auto insurance but not required to get health insurance?"

Because driving a car without auto insurance puts others at a direct risk. Living your life without health insurance only puts you at risk.

Maybe you should link to something that has the actual health plan in it instead of some right wing slash article full of bullshit.

#5 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

Where would I find such a thing buf? It doesn't exist.

the fines would offset at least half the cost of basic medical coverage, according to the legislation. The goal is to nudge people to sign up for coverage when they are healthy . . .

THEN - by their own financial model they would lose 50% of their operating budget (collection of fines) and the plan would fold

these legislators need some serious drug & psychological testing (on their own dime)
sadly, they all need to go and should be removed by sane electorate/citzens at the first opportunity

Why are people required to get auto insurance but not required to get health insurance?

#11 | Posted by rcade

How's that working? I guess you pay for "uninsured motorist" in your premium.

Why are people required to get auto insurance but not required to get health insurance?

Auto Insurance is the best comparison they can come up with? Here is an easy comeback... What about those who don't drive? What about those who have multiple accidents and tickets? Do they pay the same Insurance rates as those who don't? This should prove how far fetched and ignorant they think we are to this so called revamping idea. I guess gullible should be added to the fattest and laziest nation label.

I am old enough to remember when auto insurance was cheap. That was before it became mandatory.

I am old enough to remember when auto insurance was cheap. That was before it became mandatory.

That was before the influx of Larry H Parkers.

when i heard this on the radio last night i just about tipped over in my chair - nudge, my arse - it's an out and out threat if THIS doesn't get people to thinking about the wool being pulled over our eyes, i don't know what will.

#2 | Posted by nanc

I don't know Nanc. I wouldn't mind it, the deadbeats would be forced to buy insurance!

I already buy insurance, anyway.

The 48 million uninsured number would go down sharply to about 3 million. The balance can't afford insurance because their premiums are far too high.

I guess you all realize that the 48 million include 20 million illegals that should be sent home.

my name is Adolf Hitler and I approve this message.

uninsured motorist cannot be equated with state mandated health insurance - one pays, the other takes.

"What about those who don't drive?"

Exactly. They are not required to get auto insurance. Just as those who do not go to the doctor should not be fined for not getting health insurance.

Because driving a car without auto insurance puts others at a direct risk. Living your life without health insurance only puts you at risk.

We're already paying for people without health insurance. They show up at the ER and the costs are passed on to everybody else. They also have more serious health problems because they don't see a doctor regularly, which makes the costs even higher.

Driving a car without auto insurance only puts others at financial risk. That's directly comparable to how living without health insurance costs others financially.

The only way to make health insurance work in this country -- for the people who need it, not just the healthy young people insurers want to cover -- is for it to be mandatory or for the government to offer it universally.

"Why should anyone be forced to get health insurance if they don't want it? This is fucking insane."

Tell Mitt Romney that.
Why should taxpayers be stuck with the bill when uninsured people get injured or seriously ill and require hospitalization??

Why should taxpayers be stuck with the bill when uninsured people get injured or seriously ill and require hospitalization??

Why should we pay for those pre-disposed to these injuries or illnesses?

"We're already paying for people without health insurance. They show up at the ER and the costs are passed on to everybody else."

Then impose the fine when they show up to the ER. There's no need to fine people who have no intention of going to the doctor and manage to get by without needing insurance.

Just as those who do not go to the doctor should not be fined for not getting health insurance.
#24 | Posted by JOE

No, they should be fined for going to the doctor without health insurance, unless they are able to pay out of pocket at the time of service.

Driving a car without auto insurance only puts others at financial risk. That's directly comparable to how living without health insurance costs others financially.

What about the driving habits? Do they not pay more for the higher risk? Would that apply to Universal Healthcare? Or does that argument not fly?

"Then impose the fine when they show up to the ER."

Great, so then they will not go when they need to and risk getting sicker or dying.
If there is to be a fine thenit needs to be completely independent from treatment availability.

Why should taxpayers be stuck with the bill when uninsured people get injured or seriously ill and require hospitalization??

The same reason we are stuck paying for the Coast Guard or any other rescue entity when people do something stupid.

"Great, so then they will not go when they need to and risk getting sicker or dying."

A $1,000 fine is nothing compared to the cost of medical bills without insurance anyways - so if there was going to be a cost deterrent to showing up for treatment, it was already there without the fine.

fuck the poor

#9 | Posted by Shawn

Please show them to me so that I can fulfill your request.

Please! In this country? Poor?

I guess you all realize that the 48 million include 20 million illegals that should be sent home.

#21 | Posted by Sniper

The illegals represent a very large portion of the deadbeats.

So we will be forced to pay into the current corrupt system? Who wrote this, the insurance industry? So unemployed people will be fined 1000$? How about poor people who make under twenty a year? This stinks...

I completely agree with this, but it has to be at the state level. If fact, I think the fine needs to be $1000, plus they must be forced to pay for back premiums based on their health.

There should be a single payer system. Period. Anything else is bullshit.

#36 | Posted by dibblda at 2009-07-03 12:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

Reading is FUNdamental. Try it.

There should be a single payer system. Period. Anything else is bullshit.

Would that mean everyone would pay the same premiums? Regardless of thier current or pre-existing health?

Why should anyone be forced to get health insurance if they don't want it? This is fucking insane.

#7 | POSTED BY JOE AT 2009-07-03 10:49 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

Joe, govt. knows what's best for you. Now, take your medicine and go to bed like a good little boy.

"Would that mean everyone would pay the same premiums? "

No, it means gov't would pay bills and, ideally, tax the populace that amount.

Joe, govt. knows what's best for you.

If I may add... Look at how well they run Medicare, SCHIP, Social Security...

"Look at how well they run Medicare"

Okay.

Medicare is amazingly efficient, with relatively miniscule administrative costs.

"Look at how well they run Medicare"

Okay.

Medicare is amazingly efficient, with relatively miniscule administrative costs.

Yeah no such thing as fraud right? Overbilling, multiple unneeded treatments. Gotcha.

Medicare is amazingly efficient, with relatively miniscule administrative costs.

#44 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2009-07-03 12:48 PM | REPLY | FLAG: Welcome to Fantasy Island, I'm Danforth, and I'll Be Your Host...

What about the driving habits? Do they not pay more for the higher risk? Would that apply to Universal Healthcare?

I'd love a system that gave me cheaper insurance rates for being pro-active about my health with exercise, a good diet and the like. I wouldn't get that discount today (I exercise regularly but need to lose weight), but that's a good incentive system for everybody.

Please show them to me so that I can fulfill your request. Please! In this country? Poor?

If you're suggesting there are no poor people in this country, that's ridiculous. As of 2005, 38 million Americans lived below the poverty line, which was $19,350 a year for a family of four. Another 38 million had times in the year when they couldn't afford food.

The fact that the same amount of money would be an affordable lifestyle in a destitute third world country is immaterial. If you have to miss meals in this country, you're poor.

#45, #46

Feel free to compare Medicare with other plans.

Otherwise, you look like idiots....

Medicare is amazingly efficient, with relatively miniscule administrative costs.

It is. The government gets more bang for the buck, and takes care of more people better, than private insurance has done for the rest of us.

"If you have to miss meals in this country, you're poor."

Or trying to lose weight.

Joe, govt. knows what's best for you. Now, take your medicine and go to bed like a good little boy.

#41 | Posted by somoco

Hospice care is going to skyrocket under this plan.

"Yeah no such thing as fraud right? Overbilling, multiple unneeded treatments. Gotcha."

Isn't there such a thing as insurance fraud???

Criminals will always find ways to steal, we have to do a better job of catching them but that hardly works as a valid argument against government run health insurance.

This nation needs to FINALLY tell the ideologues to STFU and then do what is really best for our nation and economy. Figure it any way you want but single payer gives the best bang for the buck and takes the biggest burden off of employers. We cannot afford to let the interests of insurance companies or any other segment of the economy stand in the way of REAL EFFICIENT HEALTH CARE REFORM.

It is. The government gets more bang for the buck, and takes care of more people better, than private insurance has done for the rest of us.

Then please explain why 60% of those who qualify for Gov assistance via medicare, SCHIP, Social Security don't sign up?

"Hospice care is going to skyrocket under this plan."

They are really getting desperate, the arguments are getting more stupid by the minute.

Maybe we should get the French to run our health care system since most think Americans are too stupid to run it efficiently. We might as well outsource it to the French, just like we outsourced manufacturing to the Chinese, and tech help to India.

"Then please explain why 60% of those who qualify for Gov assistance via medicare, SCHIP, Social Security don't sign up?"

Probably because they don't know they qualify. Duh.

"60% of those who qualify for Gov assistance via medicare, SCHIP, Social Security don't sign up?"

WTF are you talking about? Link?

So we will be forced to pay into the current corrupt system? Who wrote this, the insurance industry? So unemployed people will be fined 1000$? How about poor people who make under twenty a year? This stinks...

#36 | Posted by dibblda

No it doesn't because I think Congress is going to come up with a plan that everyone can afford and if you don't buy that one, then you're a deadbeat. I think they are going to wave premiums as part of unemployment.

I hope and pray that it's that easy and a no-brainer otherwise it will be a disaster.

We cannot afford to let the interests of insurance companies or any other segment of the economy stand in the way of REAL EFFICIENT HEALTH CARE REFORM.

How about a REAL EFFICIENT HEALTHCARE REFORM like proper exercise and diet? Why won't any of you libs here address that issue before crying about another Government giveaway? How is that not the most relevant and important starting issue when it comes to Universal Healthcare?

#47. The only thing that can be said for Medicare is that the squeeze the shit out of all hospitals and medical providers. to the point where if the majority of patients coming through the door are Medicare, there's no way they could make it, and would have to fold their tents.

then, i suppose the govt. can call the hospital system a failure and take that over as well.

"Hospice care is going to skyrocket under this plan."

They are really getting desperate, the arguments are getting more stupid by the minute.

#54 | Posted by danni

Danni, I'm feeding on the fear and there's lots of fear.

It was a joke.

In fact, I don't trust Obama on this one. I somewhat trust Congress to come up with a good plan, but Obama is a lying crook on the health topic.

"but Obama is a lying crook on the health topic."

Your paranoia is showing....again.

Obama is the first president to ever get this close to health care for all Americans, if he gets it through it will be a huge feather in his cap.

"The only thing that can be said for Medicare is that the squeeze the shit out of all hospitals and medical providers."

That's the only thing??? How about that it provided, for the first time in history, guaranteed health care for senior citizens and the disabled.
I think that is pretty important.

Then please explain why 60% of those who qualify for Gov assistance via medicare, SCHIP, Social Security don't sign up?
#53 | Posted by crispee_oc

Social stigma internalized. I have an aunt who was living with her boyfriend for 15 years (as a housewife/bookkeeper for his business) and just left him in december. The way the circumstances worked out, she left with nearly nothing. She's struggling now, living with my grandmother who is basically supporting her. I encouraged her to apply for services because she is precisely the type of person for whom they were intended, but she got mad at me for even suggesting it. She's internalized all the bullshit coming from the right and doesn't want to think of herself that way, so she allows my grandmother (who really can't afford it but has also internalized the social stigma) to support her.

If you don't like mandatory auto insurance laws, move to a state that has more favorable laws, or simply make the choice not to own a car.

If you don't like government-imposed forced health insurance laws, your only alternative is to stop breathing.

Keep going with that wrecking ball, Obama!

"Medicare is amazingly efficient, with relatively miniscule administrative costs."

I googled "medicare administrative costs" and all I see are articles debunking the assertion that medicare has low administrative costs. I tend to believe those articles because the fact is, I've dealt with countless levels of government and have never, not once, whether at the federal, state, county or city level, encountered one example of efficiency. Ever. And I don't expect the government to magically become efficient with the advent of nationalized healthcare. They won't.

#62, true that. only thing to be said for its "efficiency." should have been more clear.

"all I see are articles debunking the assertion that medicare has low administrative costs."

Excellent. Their plan of moving the "debunking" articles to the front page is working.

But look closer: they're all written by groups with a dog in the hunt.

"they're all written by groups with a dog in the hunt."

As are the "reports" by people who say that medicare has low administrative costs. So we can say it's a wash, and look for any example of government ever being efficient, and form a conclusion. What's yours?

when i heard this on the radio last night i just about tipped over in my chair - nudge, my arse - it's an out and out threat if THIS doesn't get people to thinking about the wool being pulled over our eyes, i don't know what will.

#2 | Posted by nanc

I hope you have to get off your lazy butt and work just to afford it.

Your paranoia is showing....again.

Obama is the first president to ever get this close to health care for all Americans, if he gets it through it will be a huge feather in his cap.

#62 | Posted by danni

This is horrible!

I like the idea of providing health care for people who can't afford it, but I will not provide health care for deadbeats.

Obama wants healthcare for deadbeats...

Sorry, ain't going to happen.

If Congress does it, then they are out and we have to change it back with the next Congress.

However, I really think Congress is going to come up with a good plan that will work.

Obama's idea will not be passed in Congress, thank God!

But look closer: they're all written by groups with a dog in the hunt.

#67 | Posted by Danforth

Can you at least agree that Medicaid is so bad that most Providers refuse to take patients?

Medicare is amazingly efficient, with relatively miniscule administrative costs.

medicare will be broke in 2016
medicaid will break the country in 2020

I've dealt with countless levels of government and have never, not once, whether at the federal, state, county or city level, encountered one example of efficiency.
...
#65 | Posted by JOE at 2009-07-03 01:14 PM | Reply | Flag: Student loan check was late one time

Can you at least agree that Medicaid is so bad that most Providers refuse to take patients?
#71 | Posted by Eddie

Not in my experience.

I know a lot of doctors personally. Some take no insurance at all and deal with only wealthier patients. Of those that do take insurance, they all take medicare and a few ONLY take medicare. They all say that medicare gives them the fewest problems when it comes to approving care.

I've dealt with countless levels of government and have never, not once, whether at the federal, state, county or city level, encountered one example of efficiency.
...
#65 | Posted by JOE at 2009-07-03 01:14 PM | Reply | Flag: Student loan check was late one time

#73 | Posted by nullifidian at 2009-07-03 01:29 PM | Reply | Flag: Missed the bus to Summer School

#74 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at

Again, can you at least agree, then, that most Prociders don't take Medicaid?

I'd love a system that gave me cheaper insurance rates for being pro-active about my health with exercise, a good diet and the like. I wouldn't get that discount today (I exercise regularly but need to lose weight), but that's a good incentive system for everybody...

#47 | Posted by rcade at 2009-07-03 12:55 PM

if you are on a group plan through your employer, you get a group discount and your employer supplements part of the cost. and your cost is the same as everyone else on that particular insurance product as everyone else in the company. however, if you are self employed or purchase insurance yourself, most likely you end up taking a physical. they may not give you discounts, but if you have current issues or are at risk, they tack on more to your premium or rate to offset the risk you present. no health issues = lower payment than someone with an issues, i.e. a discount.

you're a smart guy rcade, even if i don't always agree with you. hell, i figured you knew this.

"medicare will be broke in 2016
medicaid will break the country in 2020"

Well let's think about this for a moment. Health insurance companies would go broke too unless they.....

a. Don't pay claims
b. Raise Rates
c. Drop coverage for those who get sick.

So.,...what should we do about Medicare???

It isn't rocket science.

"but if you have current issues or are at risk, they tack on more to your premium or rate to offset the risk you present. no health issues = lower payment than someone with an issues, i.e. a discount."

But no matter how healthy you are the premiums will still be more than for a group. Oh, and just what if unexpectedly you are fifty years old????
National Health Care will be especially good for entrepreneurs who are afraid to leave jobs just because of health insurance.

#13 Joe....Living your life without health insurance puts other people at risk of having to pay your health care costs.

So.,...what should we do about Medicare???

It isn't rocket science.

#78 | Posted by danni

I know! It's not rocket science.

Take the full cost of Medicare and pay premiums for health insurance!

It would save money.

The Fed Govmnt needs to out of the health business

National Health Care will be especially good for entrepreneurs who are afraid to leave jobs just because of health insurance.

#79 | Posted by danni

That's a good point, but jobs don't provide the health insurance it did in the past, unless you work for the government, but then again, the government pay is so bad that the extra money you make in the free world is more than enough to pay for a better insurance plan.

So.,...what should we do about Medicare???

raise taxes to pay for it because i will be on it next year,it's time to quit pulling the wagon and time to git in it.

The Fed Govmnt needs to out of the health business

#81 | Posted by Eddie

Well they are out of pvt care no and millions are still suffering. Pvt insurance will reject anybody that isn't perfect and will try to drop anybody that they deem is too expensive to keep.

"Take the full cost of Medicare and pay premiums for health insurance!

It would save money."

Riiight.
The health insurance companies would charge far more to insure the elderly than what it costs the taxpayer now.

YOu just have to wonder, what is the motivation for these folks to oppose something that will save them money, give them more security, make them more economically independent, make America healthier, etc.
I suspect their ideology blinds them to logic.

The Fed Govmnt needs to out of the health business

#81 | Posted by Eddie

Well they are out of pvt care no and millions are still suffering. Pvt insurance will reject anybody that isn't perfect and will try to drop anybody that they deem is too expensive to keep.

#84 | Posted by jackass

Yes, and Congress is working on this.

You behave like someone who doesn't pay taxes, doesn't pay for their health insurance, probably doesn't pay for anything.

If you did, you'd be paying attention and trying to come up with a plan that works.

There are a small number of uninsured who are sick, unemplyed and can't afford their health insurance. I say we set up a pool and force the insurance companies to take them and pay their premiums. It will be cheaper on all of us.

The rest, the majority of the uninsured? Force them to pay. TAX THEM! G-D freeloaders! If they'd be paying then we wouldn't be in trouble.

YOu just have to wonder, what is the motivation for these folks to oppose something that will save them money, give them more security, make them more economically independent, make America healthier, etc.
I suspect their ideology blinds them to logic.

#86 | Posted by danni

you're kidding right? Universal healthcare is going to do that? Obama thinks you're stupid.

Eddie I pay taxes. I think we all should pay more taxes. If everybody paid about 60% of their income in taxes we could have single payer and possibly govt subsidized housing.

Riiight.
The health insurance companies would charge far more to insure the elderly than what it costs the taxpayer now.

#85 | Posted by danni

Danni, please think about it before commenting.

If the government is paying the premium, then it's like Universal Healthcare with competition. Just think of the non-profit insurance companies popping up and taking these premiums!

I've thought of this quite a bit over the last 10 years and I have more ideas than I could write in this thread.

I do computer work for Providers and my wife is a Provider.

Eddie I pay taxes. I think we all should pay more taxes. If everybody paid about 60% of their income in taxes we could have single payer and possibly govt subsidized housing.

#89 | Posted by jackass

I do pay 60% of my income.

"If the government is paying the premium, then it's like Universal Healthcare with competition. Just think of the non-profit insurance companies popping up and taking these premiums!"

Yeah right, and think of the huge salaries the CEOs and other executives working for NON-PROFIT insurance companies would award to themselves.
NON-PROFITs are some of the worst offenders in that regard. It is just ridiculous to think that any insurance company could operate cheaper than Medicare which has a reputation for the lowest administrative costs in the health care industry.

"I do computer work for Providers and my wife is a Provider."

So you are hardly unbiased. Your income depends on for-profit heath care insurance. Don't worry, if we get national health insurance the savings will give our economy the biggest boost you have ever seen and you will find others willing to pay you just as much. If not, oh well, I really don't much care about those who earn their livings working for the bloated health insurance industry, their raises, benefits, etc. are dependent upon the denials of claims for policy holders.

60% of those who qualify for Gov assistance via medicare, SCHIP, Social Security don't sign up?"

WTF are you talking about? Link?

#57 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-07-03 01:04 PM

That should have read 6 out 10 children are not signed up. About 1-4 adults fall under the same category.

-- One in four Americans -- about 12 million people -- who don't have health coverage are eligible for Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) but aren't enrolled, a new report shows.

Not so fast, Danni.

Let the insurance industry compete with a public plan. The more the merrier!! If they are offering the same coverage with the same lack of pre-qualifications and exclusions, give them the opportunity to compete. Hold them to the same standards that the public option is held to and make them charge the same premiums that the public option charges.

That will just eliminate another false claim that the insurance companies are lying to the public about. Perhaps they can actually get their act together and put together an equal or better plan than the public option. This would be good since it would offer an alternative low cost option for the Rtards who would never go for the public option but who are poor and need heath insurance.

I do pay 60% of my income.

#91 | Posted by Eddie

Excellent! I wish we all did though. I give to charity in the interim until the fed govt taxes us properly. I make sure all my charities are non christian based though. I do however admit I get groceries from a christian based ministry. The deal is such a good one I can't pass it up. I figure I'm just stealing from the church so it's not such a bad thing.

Danni,

Taking this a step further, a health insurance plan similar to the Citizen's property insurance system here in Florida could be devised.

Set up the public plan for those who can't get coverage from any other source. Make it a guaranteed issue, no-precondition basic health plan. Make it a condition of doing business that all health insurance companies must offer a similar plan at similar cost if they want to continue offering their gold-plated traditional policies. In return, the pubic plan would promise to transfer customers to the private plans as the insurance companies ramped up coverage in the geographical regions where the policy holders lived.

This way the insurance companies can't complain that the public plan is stealing all the customers.

Then please explain why 60% of those who qualify for Gov assistance via medicare, SCHIP, Social Security don't sign up?

#53 | Posted by crispee_oc

btw, health care costs would plummet - - followed of course by health Insurance costs IF -
the feds would simply include "tort reform" in the health overhaul,
but alas the politicians are sucking at the teat of the trail lawyers

umm . . . same reason Dems resist voter IDs - - it's those pesky arrest warrants

Yet they are willing to give up our most private information. Maybe they haven't thought that far ahead. Much like their silence on our Country's overall health.

The reason that the '60%' don't get Gov assistance is pretty simple: They are idiots.

Just like the crop of idiots that are always crying they don't need health insurance. They may be healthy now but the are too stupid and short-sighted to think that they may get sick or in an accident one day.

Pure stupidity, nothing else. And you and I and the rest of the taxpayers will pay thru the nose when they show up in an emergency room and run up a half million dollar tab for a heart attack or stroke that could have been prevented by $50/year worth of blood pressure medication.

This is what the insurance companies and the Party of Fail want!!!!

AXE I can see the logic behind a system like that but it still comes down to....what is the least expensive way for this country to supply health care to all that need it??
I honestly don't think private insurance is the answer, every dime of profit and excessive administrative costs is money that should be going elsewhere in our struggling economy. We need to look at what our trading competitors do and determine what we could do to become more competitive and one way to do that is to significantly reduce the cost of health care. If it means single payer (which I think it does) then that is what we should be doing, insurance companies have no God given right to a share of our health care dollar and that, basicly, is the argument against the public option and single payer.

Yet they are willing to give up our most private information."

The health insurance companies already have it so what's the big deal? You seem to think you can trust the government less than for profit companies????

Danni,

The major insurance companies are already running Medicare in most states. So they already know how to administer an efficient public plan.

Let them use that expertise to come up with competing plans to the public option. If they can offer equivalent coverage for the same premium, then giving the people additional choices would be great.

I have no problem writing my check to Humana or Blue Cross instead of Uncle Sam. As long as the coverage is the same and the cost is similar, who gives a shit?

Pure stupidity, nothing else. And you and I and the rest of the taxpayers will pay thru the nose when they show up in an emergency room and run up a half million dollar tab for a heart attack or stroke that could have been prevented by $50/year worth of blood pressure medication.

Of course they also could have been avoided by a healthier lifestyle.

This is what the insurance companies and the Party of Fail want!!!!

That must mean the dems want us to remain a fat and lazy nation and have the Insurance Companies suck it up and pay?

If the trolls in Washington had half a brain, they would use this opportunity to build in a little 'profit' into the public option to offset the cost of Medicare.

Medicare is in serious financial trouble and the taxpayer is already paying for it. Getting millions of public plan policy holders to kick in a few bucks a month extra could be a real help to financing medicare.

Dumbass not everybody who has a heart condition is fat and lazy. My Father was very active and thin when he died young. He used to go to the gym 4 days a week. He didn't even know he had a heart condition.

Crispy,

Are you really that stupid? Are you going to get off your obese ass and go to 50 million households and run lifestyle clinics?

This so typical of the Party of No. Blame everyone else and pull excuses out of your big fat ass for everything under the sun. 'So sorry, my dog ate our alternative Health Plan....Perhaps you would like another look at our 4 page BUDGET that doesn't have any actual figures in it?'

Yet they are willing to give up our most private information."

The health insurance companies already have it so what's the big deal? You seem to think you can trust the government less than for profit companies????

Does the Government have access to our records at these for profit companies? Or is it protected from the Government? Of course the post was in response to the dems resistance to a Voter ID card. I guess you forgot that one of the main reasons was a privacy issue.

Jackass has a point. Plenty of the morons who crow that they don't need health insurance are like his dad walking around with a time bomb in their hearts or head without a clue that they could keel over tomorrow.

Mandatory health insurance makes as much sense as mandatory automobile insurance. Why should I pay for some stupid fuck's hospital stay if he was too stupid to insure his ass? Just like why I should pay if he runs his car into mine?

Stupid Rtards don't get it!!!

#106 | Posted by rasta

but you hated your republican dad so it's probably a good thing for you he had heart problems?

Nanc,

Why don't you parrot what Flush told you today? I'm sure he had many thoughts you could regurgitate for us that would be better than disparaging some poster's dead parent.

Would Jesus like you talking that way about his father?

My repub dad is alive and well he is just dead to me. My real dad is dead.

Crispy,

You stupid fucks were perfectly happy for Jeff Gannon's girlfriend to rape the constitution and wire tap every American's phone calls for 7 years. You were pleased that nothing off limits to his government.

Why the sudden paranoia about the 'evil government'?

Two faced schmuck.

#111 | Posted by axe

nobody axed you! i've never listened to a rush program in my entire 53 years. my comment was to rasta who has stated on numerous occasions that he hates his republican father and wishes all republicans would die - take it up with him buttinski!

Crispy,

Are you really that stupid? Are you going to get off your obese ass and go to 50 million households and run lifestyle clinics?

Are you that ignorant as to the future health related problems attributed to weight and lifestyle? The laughable argument by dumb shits like you is early care leads to less care in the future. The earliest and cheapest care is diet and exercise. How much has been spent by the Government to get this through thick heads like yourself? Do you and the brilliant dems think providing Universal Healthcare will make us a slimmer and healthier nation?

Crispy,

You stupid fucks were perfectly happy for Jeff Gannon's girlfriend to rape the constitution and wire tap every American's phone calls for 7 years. You were pleased that nothing off limits to his government.

Why the sudden paranoia about the 'evil government'?

Two faced schmuck.

How does one lower themselves to your stupidity level? (Ignoring your hidden Jeff Gannon fantasy)The argument was to danni and the dems NOT wanting Voter ID cards because of privacy issues. Are you really that fucking obtuse that you missed that point? Never mind you will answer that question with your next post.

My repub dad is alive and well he is just dead to me. My real dad is dead.

#112 | Posted by jackass at 2009-07-03 03:13 PM SickMofoFlag

My repub dad is alive and well he is just dead to me. My real dad is dead.

Based on your posts, I am sure you made them real proud.

I think what occurs to me is that if we used psychology we could get these dumbs righties to demand national health care. All we have to do is convince them we on the left don't want it. Their opinions are just responses to ours because they actually don't have any ideas of their own so instead of proposing "ideas" they just object to ours.
So, I say, hell no to health care!!! I want to pay more to my insurance company because they deserve my hard earned pay. Billion dollar salaries for CEOs are fair and what God wants.

Based on your posts, I am sure you made them real proud.

#118 | Posted by crispee

My adopted parents don't believe in redistribution of wealth. I could never love or respect people that don't share my belief system.

Their opinions are just responses to ours because they actually don't have any ideas of their own so instead of proposing "ideas" they just object to ours.

Yeah like dumbing it down and comparing it to having auto insurance?

My adopted parents don't believe in redistribution of wealth. I could never love or respect people that don't share my belief system.

Of course you ignore the fact they provided you with a home, food, clothes and are alive and posting today. But then again your belief system thinks you deserved evrything they gave you and more.

Excellent! I wish we all did though. I give to charity in the interim until the fed govt taxes us properly. I make sure all my charities are non christian based though. I do however admit I get groceries from a christian based ministry. The deal is such a good one I can't pass it up. I figure I'm just stealing from the church so it's not such a bad thing.

#96 | Posted by jackass

What a liar!

You don't pay to any charity! You're in high school you chump!!

All we have to do is convince them we on the left don't want it.
#119 | Posted by danni

FF!

Bit, it would put Glenn Beck out of business.

Medicare is amazingly efficient, with relatively miniscule administrative costs.

"medicare will be broke in 2016"

Efficiency and funding are two separate issues.

"So we can say it's a wash"

No, we can't. Even those with an agenda admit Medicare administrative costs are much less than private insurers.

"The laughable argument by dumb shits like you is early care leads to less care in the future."

Even worse is dumb shits who post crap like this as if he knows something every study doesn't.

Even worse is dumb shits who post crap like this as if he knows something every study doesn't.

What study would you like to see and ignore danforth? The studies that says obesity leads to future health problems? You need a study for that?

"What study would you like to see and ignore danforth?"

I've seen a lot of them, while serving on health committees for over a decade. They all point to preventive care being much, MUCH cheaper than cure.

And the ones you've seen?

I've seen a lot of them, while serving on health committees for over a decade.

You served on a health committee and you argue obesity leads to future health problems?

They all point to preventive care being much, MUCH cheaper than cure.

Who said anything about exercise and diet being a cure and how did I relate the two costs? Is your argument good exerise and diet and preventive care are not related? Or can't be inclusive?

"You served on a health committee and you argue obesity leads to future health problems? "

No, you're misunderstanding. All I said was study after study proves early visits help prevent future health problems. Prevention is cheaper than cure.

"Is your argument good exerise and diet and preventive care are not related?"

No, rather that more early visits can spur better diet and exercise habits. They can also catch very expensive diseases while they're still relatively inexpensive to treat.

"You served on a health committee and you argue obesity leads to future health problems? "

No, you're misunderstanding. All I said was study after study proves early visits help prevent future health problems. Prevention is cheaper than cure.

Point out where I argued that point anywhere on the thread. When you can't, explain your decision to write post #127.

"Point out where I argued that point anywhere on the thread."

"The laughable argument by dumb shits like you is early care leads to less care in the future."

Um....right there.

"Yeah like dumbing it down and comparing it to having auto insurance?"

Sorry, not me.

Point out where I argued that point anywhere on the thread."

"The laughable argument by dumb shits like you is early care leads to less care in the future."

Um....right there.
Prevention is cheaper than cure.

#131 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-07-03 04:42 PM

Um you said leads to cure. Right troll? Your usual pattern.

Read the response in context to that other moron AXE.

(Are you that ignorant as to the future health related problems attributed to weight and lifestyle? The laughable argument by dumb shits like you is early care leads to less care in the future. The earliest and cheapest care is diet and exercise.)

"I think what occurs to me is that if we used psychology we could get these dumbs righties..."

"Yeah like dumbing it down and comparing it to having auto insurance?"

Sorry, not me.
#134 | Posted by danni at 2009-07-03 05:01 PM

??????????????

"The earliest and cheapest care is diet and exercise."

Republicans have proposed that for a health care plan before, funny thing, it didn't help people who got sick.

??????????????

Your point?

"Um you said leads to cure."

No, I said IS CHEAPER than cure. You're the only one who used the word "leads". Is this your usual troll pattern, liar?

Absolutely no chance this Orwellian "shared responsibility payment" is only $1,000. I'll pay that right now so I don't have to take government insurance, just like I'd be willing to let the government keep my accrued Social Security benefits if I can opt out of the system, right now. It's illegal, and will be under ObamaHealth.

No, in order for it to work, eventually there will be enormous fines and jail sentences. And the Obamatons will be here, then, celebrating it as another advance of freedom.

"No, in order for it to work, eventually there will be enormous fines and jail sentences."

Yeah, cuz that's what happend in Massachussetts.

"Um you said leads to cure."

No, I said IS CHEAPER than cure. You're the only one who used the word "leads". Is this your usual troll pattern, liar?
#139 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-07-03 05:10 PM

Read your own worthless post and paste. How can I change from leads to cure when I wrote that before you? See how the posts are numbered and timestamped? You are a desperate little bitch. You got caught being a troll and nothing you can post will change that fact.

"The laughable argument by dumb shits like you is early care leads to less care in the future."

Um....right there.
Prevention is cheaper than cure.

#131 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-07-03 04:42 PM

If health insurance was mandatory in this country and insurers had to take everybody regardless of pre-existing conditions, everybody's rates would go way down.

Really? It did not work that way with auto insurance. When Auto insurance became mandatory it tripled in price and continued to rise. I originlly paid $60/yr for auto insurance and now I am paying $1200/yr.

Mandatory insurance is just a way of letting a private corporation tax you!

Everyone having insurance does not bring the cost of treatment down. Mandating that individuals MUST purchase insurance will only drive the cost of insurance higher.

If health insurance was mandatory in this country and insurers had to take everybody regardless of pre-existing conditions, everybody's rates would go way down.

Really? It did not work that way with auto insurance. When Auto insurance became mandatory it tripled in price and continued to rise. I originlly paid $60/yr for auto insurance and now I am paying $1200/yr.

Mandatory insurance is just a way of letting a private corporation tax you!

Everyone having insurance does not bring the cost of treatment down. Mandating that individuals MUST purchase insurance will only drive the cost of insurance higher.

Yeah, cuz that's what happend in Massachussetts.

#141 | Posted by danni
* * * *

It's not working in Massachusetts. It's broke.

Really? It did not work that way with auto insurance. When Auto insurance became mandatory it tripled in price and continued to rise. I originlly paid $60/yr for auto insurance and now I am paying $1200/yr.

The auto insurance paralell is a way of dumbing this futile idea down. I wish they would use that as a model though. I would love to know how they determine the premiums based on the risk factors. Does anyone think some fat, lazy, slob won't complain about paying more than a fit, trim, healthy person? One of a hundred laughable arguments. Of course the number one joke is not everyone drives.

"How can I change from leads to cure when I wrote that before you?"

I honestly don't know what you're talking about. I searched for the word "leads" on this page, and the only one who used that word (between us) was you. So your claim that I'd said it ""leads" to cure" was inaccurate.

Earlier, you asked where you argued against "early visits help prevent future health problems". I posted where you did: "The laughable argument by dumb shits like you is early care leads to less care in the future." Studies I've seen year after year say different.

"How can I change from leads to cure when I wrote that before you?"

I honestly don't know what you're talking about.
#147 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-07-03 05:35 PM

This goes back to Post #133. You know the one YOU wrote. It answered post #132 right? Problem is #133 didn't answer #132. YOU chose the word CURE to fit your pathetic trolling argument.

No, you're misunderstanding. All I said was study after study proves early visits help prevent future health problems. Prevention is cheaper than cure.

Point out where I argued that point anywhere on the thread.

Prevention is cheaper than cure.
* * * *

Big deal. Another one of those nice little cliches that don't mean anything. More than half of a person's total lifetime healthcare expenditure takes place in the last year of life. That's true whether or not he dies at 35, or at 90. And when Obama starts to take seriously the idea of rationing geriatric care, then he'll get his costs down. Not before, no chance.

RIR

If they catch it early--they may not die at 35, and the expenditures would be a lot less. Your point is also lost when considering deaths by accidents and sudden natural death--like Michael Jackson.

If they catch it early--they may not die at 35, and the expenditures would be a lot less.
* * * *

Ummm, no, you just postpone them. Instead of dying in that car wreck at 35, he dies of lung cancer at 75.

That's a good example, come to think of it. Ever wonder how AFLAC is able to make so much money off those cancer policies they sell?

Because AFLAC premiums are deducted from your paycheck. Thus, you have to be working to pay them. Most people don't die of cancer during their working lifetimes, but during retirement, when Medicare picks up the tab. That's why Medicare is going broke faster than any other program.

"That's why Medicare is going broke faster than any other program."

Exactly why I think that Medicare for all would both reduce health care costs for working people and make Medicare solvent at the same time. We let the insurance companies take the young and healthy which allows them good profits and the we taxpayers take the old and infirm off their hands when they are less likely to be profitable.

"Point out where I argued that point anywhere on the thread."

How does what you said NOT argue that point? Do you actually believe prevention works in every other area, but not obesity?

If Obesity is a problem which it is. I say we mandate fitness programs for all Americans that are physically able. This way if you fail a PT test you get one retest and if you fail that one your taxes go up for the year. You either get your ass in shape or you keep paying more. I think Doctors could administer the tests when you do your annual physical.

Oh one another thing Smoking needs to be eliminated. Too many studies have shown that it is bad for you. Chronic drinking is a problem too. I say Alcohol should be rationed like they do ephedra at the pharmacy. Maybe allow a case a week or so. This way if you want to get drunk you can one night a week fine but other than that you should be eating healthy and training. Fast food should be changed too. Healthier options should be the norm. Mcdonalds should be forced to cook their burgers so that the fatty grease is removed and the fries should be baked and not fried in grease. Soft drinks should all be reduced calorie. The FDA could mandate thousands of changes to slim down Americans.

BWAH!

nanc my plan would save money

i must agree with you, rasta. what are you going to give up?

p.s. - how about we do away with soft drinks altogether?

Great Nanc. I prefer water an unsweet tea anyways. If I do like a carbonated water every once in a while though.

must agree with you, rasta. what are you going to give up?

#159 | Posted by nanc

I don't like sweet food and I don't like fast food but I do drink diet soda once in a while so I'll give that up.

"Why are people required to get auto insurance but not required to get health insurance?"

---RCADE

You have to love a logical fallacy like this.

The reason auto insurance is required is to protect the people you might get in an accident with.... not to protect yourself.

The only insurance requirement for autos is liability insurance which only pays to the other party. Collision and personal injury coverage is an OPTION not a requirement.

Health insurance, however, is not to protect the anyone but yourself and/or your family. While it is a good idea to have it, it is simply fascist to require it on pain of government punishment.

Without knowing more, difficult to say

Hey Muggsy! How 'bout me an you's an da boys do a bit of business wid dat nice couple down de street! Like you knows them nice average 'merican types!

What ya talkin'?

Like you knows the ol' insurance scam! Hee! hee hee! Say a coupl'a C notes a month ought ta do! Ya thinks?

Ehhhhh, yeah ok. Like what we got ta do's?

Eh? I'll git da gang together an pays them little a visit! MAKE EM AN OFFER THEY CAN'T REFUSE! Hee hee hee! Postage paid too!

Excellent! I wish we all did though. I give to charity in the interim until the fed govt taxes us properly. I make sure all my charities are non christian based though. I do however admit I get groceries from a christian based ministry. The deal is such a good one I can't pass it up. I figure I'm just stealing from the church so it's not such a bad thing.

#96 | Posted by jackass at 2009-07-03 02:22 PM

That makes perfect sense to me. Lets see you you're willing pay 60% taxes you say you make up the difference by giving to charity, but you have to take assistance from a group you abhor so you can eat. Maybe if you thought a little more about your spending habits you wouldn't have to take assistance from others.

Which one are you full of shit or a deadbeat?

TX I use Angel Harvest to buy groceries because it is so cheap. I could afford to buy my own but why should I?
1.5 lb. Ribeye Steaks (4 x 6 oz.)
2 lb. Homestyle Lasagna Dinner Entre
2 lb. Beef and Bean Burritos (8 x 4 oz.)
2 lb. Boneless/Skinless Chicken Breast Chunks
28 oz. Jumbo Beef Pattie Entre with Gravy
1 lb. Lean Ground Beef
1 lb. All Meat Hotdog
10. oz. Individually Wrapped Sliced Cheese (16 slice)
20 oz. Shoestring Fries
1 lb. Broccoli Cuts
12 oz. Peanut Butter
1 lb. Rice
1 lb. Pinto Beans
1 lb. Margarine Tub
(Zero Grams Trans Fat)
32 oz. 2% Shelf Stable Milk
Dozen Eggs
Dessert

All of this for 30 bucks!

Who wouldn't want to take advantage of some xtians willing to be duped for this much good cheap food?

These people are crazy. The current system is working great.

#1 | Posted by Angrydad at 2009-07-03 10:17 AM

Sure it....

Sure it is

"The earliest and cheapest care is diet and exercise."

Yeah because type I diabetes can be avoided by diet and excercise.

Why should taxpayers be stuck with the bill when uninsured people get injured or seriously ill and require hospitalization??

#26 | Posted by danni at 2009-07-03 12:03 PM |

In a few years when the government gets total control it will decide who lives and who dies. Trust me, if you're a fast food worker making 15 k a year you won't be getting 2 million in medical services. There's more than one way to skin a cat, you know.

BTW, this is one more example why it's really pointless to celebrate independence day.

"In a few years when the government gets total control it will decide who lives and who dies. "

Currently that decision is made by the insurers, who have a vested interest in having the sick, die.

Currently that decision is made by the insurers, who have a vested interest in having the sick, die.

Posted by Danforth

not ff

#161 | Posted by rasta

i'm a water and unsweet tea person too! see - we do have things in common - when i'd be home sick as a child with my mother (the cretin libtard), she'd fix me unsweet tea and we'd play canasta - i loved beating the tar out of her - always made me feel much better for school the next day!

Now = fuck the poor.

Obama plan = fuck the poor.

The powerful win either way.

Mission accomplished.

I pay for my employees health insurance.. and its unbelievably expensive.. they pay for their families via the group plan, and it too, is very expensive.

But I don't support this plan.. People MUST be responsible.. and if they aren't, then suffer the consequences.

We do need safety nets in place.. but my experience has been. that carrying insurance is a choice people make. Live in bigger houses, drive better cars, and don't buy health insurance. THEN when you get sick.. complain about the country not bailing you out.. Too bad..

IF you build a house in a hurricane prone area.. and don't buy the expensive insurance.. sorry, I don't want to be taxed to pay for your house.

We need to grow up..

what about the poor that live in dumps and have to choose between rent and insurance? You think a guy that makes 400 a week can afford 500 a month for insurance? You are nuts.You are a typical rethug that only wants lower taxes. You need to learn to pay not only for your employees but their families too. I bet you pay shit wages to boot just so you can make a fat profit while exploiting your workers.

"I pay for my employees health insurance.. "

Says someone who obviously hangs out here.

Which doesn't fit the definition of someone who has "employees."

Result: fail.

You think a guy that makes 400 a week can afford 500 a month for insurance?

What a clueless idiot.

Been there done that.

$400 a week is $1200 - $1600 a month or roughly $20k a year. I made very little more than that, had insurance, AND paid my child support. With my wife working also we managed just fine. Without her working it was tighter but with proper budgeting it was still doable.

We didn't have the fancy car, or the HD TV, but we were able to make it. If you are under a certain amount of income there is also already health programs such as Medicaid, or for kids in Georgia there is PeachCare.

Your idea that it you can't do it is born of pure ignorance and ideology.

Says someone who obviously hangs out here.

Which doesn't fit the definition of someone who has "employees."

Another idiot that obviously has never run a business and has no clue what a self-employed person can or can't do.

Hint: If he has employees there is a good chance he can set his own hours and/or work load based on how much he decides his business can afford.

moonman you are a bullshit liar. Let's say you make 1600 a month. -500 =900 a month rent 700 = 200 left over for food bills and car payments or bus fair? fucking impossible and 700 will get you shithole in south Atl that nobody would dare fucking live.

moonmental midget do the math before you lie next time.

moonman you are a bullshit liar.

About as bullshit as you are for figuring $500 for insurance.

How many people are you insuring?

The United Healthcare plan we had was about $60 - $70 for single coverage per month and $350 for family (4 people covered).

As I said, between my wife and I doing the RESPONSIBLE thing and both working, we managed just fine... and not in south ATL either.

So... pull your head out of your ass and quite your whiny exaggerations. Nobody with half a brain believes your bullshit.

Medicaid, the annual income for a family of four must not exceed $20,650

Of course those with less than half a brain might buy into it.

Oh... and the numbers I supplied were for the PPO, not for that HMO bullshit. $500 deductable per person per year. Easily met.

Wife just corrected me... $260 for family coverage. Which makes your $500 number doubly exaggerated.

"Without her working it was tighter but with proper budgeting it was still doable."

Explain how doable it was without her working or was that a lie?

When you got your insurance did you lie on your application? Did you have a pre-existing conditions? Do you take and medications? You are a liar that comes on this blog just to spread your filth.

I just put in blue cross blue shield of TX for a family of 4 571.00 dollars is what it came up with

Moonman is a liar!!!

Doable enough that we were able to rent a 4 bedroom home, eat well, keep the family well clothed without going to a thrift store, didn't need any other assistance, regularly rent or buy DVD's, take the occasional vacation, etc.

Face it, anything that contradicts your talking points you will call a lie. You are a hack... transparently so.

Aetna for a family of 4 is 445.00 a month!

The only plans that are in the 200 dollar ranges have deductibles of 10 grand. What you had was a catastrophe insurance.

Moonman has been exposed a fraud and a liar this evening!!! Good insurance for a family of 4 will run 400 to 500 a month.

* Plan Type
* PPO
* Office Visit for Primary Doctor
* No Charge after deductible
* Office Visit for Specialist
* No Charge after deductible
* Coinsurance
* None
* Annual Deductible
* Family:$10,000
* Separate Prescription Drugs Deductible
* Medical Plan Deductible Applies
* Prescription Drugs
* Generic: No Charge after deductible

That is for Unicare with a price of 274.00 a month with a 10 grand deductible.
*

I just put in blue cross blue shield of TX for a family of 4 571.00 dollars is what it came up with

Funny... I just put in Blue Cross Blue Shield Ga...

The basic plan (PPO SmartSense Generic RX) was $322.25

Looks like you suck as shopping around. Idiot.

That is for Unicare with a price of 274.00 a month with a 10 grand deductible.

Really? For less than $50 more I got half that deductible. $5000

That was for a family of 4 by the way.

Like I said... you suck when it comes to shopping around.

Moonman is a liar!!!

#190 | Posted by jackass

Not a liar. Just mistaken.

I don't live in Ga Fool I left that hellhole already.

what is the deductible wiseass. Quit your lying and admit your failure. You were exposed for trying to pass off catastrophe insurance as good insurance.

Not a liar. Just mistaken.

#197 | Posted by SanAntonioRogue at 2009-07-04 11:14 PM

SAR,

How can I be mistaken about what I paid for insurance? You make no sense.

Really? For less than $50 more I got half that deductible. $5000

That was for a family of 4 by the way.

Like I said... you suck when it comes to shopping around.

#196 | Posted by moomanfl

5 grand is still a large chunk of change. Especially for a family only bringing in 27k or thereabouts.

I don't live in Ga Fool I left that hellhole already.

LOL... such a hellhole that they evidently have better insurance plans here than where you are.

Looks like YOU are the fool.

BTW... I told you what OUR deductible was with United Healthcare. What you can get with your BCBS bullshit is irrelevant to that.

How can I be mistaken about what I paid for insurance? You make no sense.

#199 | Posted by moomanfl

You had shitty high deductible insurance. Which is better than nothing but most likely you paid out of pocket most of the time. My insurance deductible through the union is 100 a year for myself.

"How can I be mistaken about what I paid for insurance?"

Before or after the fire where you lost your home?

5 grand is still a large chunk of change. Especially for a family only bringing in 27k or thereabouts.

That is why you must be RESPONSIBLE... make sure you have money saved for emergencies.

But then, people like you think you can live your life however you want and it is everyone ELSES responsibility to cover for your stupidity.

in 1999 or thereabouts I made 27k. I couldn't put aside shit I lived paycheck to paycheck. A family of 4 it must be damn near impossible to save anything.

"But then, people like you think you can live your life however you want and it is everyone ELSES responsibility to cover for your stupidity."

Is that why you accepted charitable contributions when Lisa posted here on the Drudge about the house fire?

bwahahahaha Let's see if moonman can muster and answer for that.

You had shitty high deductible insurance.

Wrong... our insurance was $500 per person per year.

That is not high for a PPO.

The $5000 was an on-the-spot BCBS lookup to match JA's bullshit about $500+ being the best you can get.

BTW... you can still have regular insurance AND have Medicaid. You simply submit to your insurance first, and Medicaid second. That would help on the deductible if you are making that little.

moonman needs to be broken from the spell Rush Limbaugh has him under.

Is that why you accepted charitable contributions when Lisa posted here on the Drudge about the house fire?

LOL... still trying that canard? That must be Hans under a different name.

moonman needs to be broken from the spell Rush Limbaugh has him under.

Don't listen to Rush.

Hell... don't even listen to the radio.

If you have a family of four and make under 20k which qualifies you for medicaid 300 a month is probably even out of reach.

Moonman you are a clueless idiot.

Moonman do you live in your moms basement? Is that why you think 20k is such a large sum?

You remind me of Nanc railing against socialized meds only to find out she is in fact a recipient because she is an Indian.

"LOL... still trying that canard?"

Clearly, no one else remembers moomanfl the bus driver accepting charity after the "Executor" "forgot" to pay the insurance premiums.

Moonman is a bus driver?

Yes I remember Lisa asking for donations as moonman was homeless after his house burnt down. Wasn't he smoking and fell asleep?

Moonman do you live in your moms basement? Is that why you think 20k is such a large sum?

Nope... 4 bedroom home with my wife and kids. Nobody else. I pay my own rent. Quit projecting. Some people have a better life than you.

If you have a family of four and make under 20k which qualifies you for medicaid 300 a month is probably even out of reach.

Which is why my wife also works. BTW... yes I make more than $20k a year now... but that wasn't always the case. At the time I did make less, I lived in NC which was a much lower cost of living area. Insurance was also cheaper at the time for family coverage.

These days $20k doesn't go as far, but if you can't afford health insurance, you would still be qualifying for Medicaid which makes this Bill moot anyway.

Moonman is a bus driver?

Nope... that was only for a short amount of time. Went on to better paying things long since.

"Yes I remember Lisa asking for donations as moonman was homeless after his house burnt down."

So much for "canard".

Hans seems to be stuck in the "can't refute the message so try to attack the messanger" mode.

Want to try backing up JA's assertion that health insurance cost $500 a month so it is unaffordable?

Want to try backing up the assertion that poor people have no health options under the already in place system?

No?

Continue attacking me then... we understand what that really means.

3

2

1

Go! heh heh

"Yes I remember Lisa asking for donations as moonman was homeless after his house burnt down."

So much for "canard".

heh heh.

Want to try backing up JA's assertion that health insurance cost $500 a month so it is unaffordable?

Posted by moomanfl

It is unaffordable for low income families. You don't even address how hard it is to get. It isn't like getting auto insurance where they let you still have it even if you have one or 2 tickets on your record. If you have hypertension or asthma it is next to impossible to even get or the rates are outrageous.