I actually believe him. NOt that any rightwinger is willing to patient or anything. But this time it makes sense that a stimulus package of this size would requiree time to kick in.

"You can't spend your way out of recession or borrow your way out of debt." Barry's plan will fail because it makes no sense. Only kool aide drinking limp wristed pussy libs would think it couls work.

A generation ought to do it.

Hey if one stimulus package is good and two is better why not have a hundred fucking packages at a Zillion dollars each. Stupid fucking libs!!!

Duh.

It took Dubya 8 years to finally fuck the economy. Rightwingnuts whine because Obama hasn't fixed it in 8 minutes.

"We're advising our clients to put everything they have into canned food and shotguns."

--Brainy Gremlin

Admitting essentially, that the stimulus package, passed unread by democrats, has done nothing but put the country into China's debt.

Sorry libs.. you can't blame Bush for this one.

Obama is a one termer.

#1 | Posted by moder8

Mod--

They designed the bill not to take effect until 2010 and beyond!

Do you know why?

Because they are going to do a SECOND stimulus--just as big and just as worthless.

When Barrt is done fucking up the economy we're going to beat on him like a Muslim beats his wife.

The change that Obama and his pals are hoping for isn't the change his followers think it is.

This guy and his pals are attempting to dismantle capitalism and democracy piece by piece. And what they're going to replace it with won't make most of the people who blindly elected him happy in the least.

Affirmative action was, is, and always will be a bad practice.

The only thing this guy's ever ran in his life is his mouth. He's spent his life telling the poor how screwed they've been and it's all someone else's fault (aka as whitey's)then when they finally been given the farm (Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac) they don't have a clue how to tend it and don't want to.

He's a Marxis parrot that has been indoctrinated that you can lead a horse to water and make it drink. The problem with Marxism/communism is that most of the horses are dead.

What a naive electorate the youth is. Without the naive and the sluggards this guy couldn't win an election to dog catcher.

I don't see the global warming tax helping any.

That's all you've got?

Waiting and praying for Obama to fail and this country to fall into depression and chaos?

What a fine bunch of patriotic Americans you are.

Cheerleaders for disaster with flag pins on your lapels.

In a rare display of political candor last week, President Barack Obama admitted that his $787 billion economic stimulus program isn't quite meeting his expectations.

"I don't feel satisfied with the progress that we've made," Obama said. "We've got to get our Recovery Act money out faster. We've got to make sure that the programs that we've put in place are working the way they're supposed to."
He was voicing the concerns of a growing number of Americans."

"You can't spend your way out of recession or borrow your way out of debt."

Sounds like Fwthom is trying to make this into a thread about Reagan's fiscal policies.

Sounds like Fwthom is trying to make this into a thread about Reagan's fiscal policies.

Sounds like Johnny is doing the to-be-expected (but getting very old) deflection to a past president.

northguy3 wrote,

"It took Dubya 8 years to finally fuck the economy. Rightwingnuts whine because Obama hasn't fixed it in 8 minutes."

Actually, 2002-2006 was really good. Lets see what happened at the end of 2006? Of course, the democrats took back over congress and the economy went to shit. Obama, was in that congress. You know the one where all spending originates. Well Obama and the democrats started the ball rolling. Now Obama is running crazy to try and destroy the economy in record time. Looks like he is succeeding at being a failure more than anyone could have expected.

yeah. it takes a LOT of time for the FED to change all of those dollars into whatever fucking new currency the Chinese want.

buz,

From 2002-2006 Greenspam put the economy on speed with less than 1% interest rates and no-doc loans. Go ahead and call that "really good" if you want. The plan was to get through 2004 and have it crash later after Democrats took over. They could control the trend but not the exact time of the tipping point.

Obama has permitted Wall Street's looting to continue, with charm. Obviously looting is unsustainable. Bush & Obama got 60% of their campaign dollars from Wall Street. You think maybe there's a connection?

Cheerleaders for disaster with flag pins on your lapels.

Nicely put.

The fact that the irony of their own situation eludes them there makes them even funnier by Spud's lights.

Stimulus will take time?

No shit.

The sinking economy will not be fixed overnight.

People should accept that.

The fact that little real reform has taken place to date vis a vis the markets is difficult to accept.

The theft that the first mega bailout represented is also a difficult pill to swallow.

Things will get worse before they get better here.

That's a given.

Be Well.

Rethuglican talking points:

We can spend $3 trillion for an unecessary lost war in Iraq, but not $1.6 trillion to help taxpaying citizens. We can't afford that.

We can spend $13 trillion to "bail-out" the richest of the rich's failed fraudulent plans, but to use any stimulus dollars to create jobs or pay unemployment extensions will lead to unmanagable deficits robbing our children of their futures. The entire 401K generation was stripped of 50% of their savings, before Paulson and Shrub left office. What a coincidence that Paulson came from the primary benficiary of the bailout, Goldman-Sachs. Will people ever wake up?

Where have you assholes been hiding when the real problems were being created. These talking points are bullshit on their face. Anyone with a memory recognizes the hypocrisy immediately. Less clear is where all that money was moved. As despicable as these behaviors are, much of it was perfectly legal thanks to suspension of dperession era legilation. There is no intention of letting anyone know where the money went. Bernanke refuses to say. Geithner claims it was an unfortunate "accident". Oh, sure.

I didn't expect to see anything for at least another year more likely 2011 and 2012 when the economy gets rolling again. Obama was upfront and said it would take time. I'm not too worried. I'll just keep plugging away while adding new skills that will keep up with the changing economy.

Waiting and praying for Obama to fail and this country to fall into depression and chaos?

There's a few people who were predicting the events of the past few months 3 or 4 years ago. Nobody listened, except to get a chuckle. Those people turned out to be more right than wrong. They don't see things turning around any time soon, and they see things getting worse for everyone except the very very rich.

It would be silly to ignore the possibility that they're right. That doesn't mean that they or I wish it to occur. I'd much rather spend my weekends hiking or camping because I enjoy it, not because I want to live there permanently.

You think maybe there's a connection?

That's what I've pointed out to anyone who claims that we'd be better off under McCain. His campaign funding came from the same places. I didn't matter who I voted for, I was getting a Wall Street approved candidate whether I liked it or not.

That doesn't mean that they or I wish it to occur.

OK, you don't, I'll accept that.

But, there is a growing chorus of those who do so openly.

I am thinking of course of Limbaugh, but there are many others. Read the signs at a teabagger rally, listen to whatever right wing boob is on your local talk radio show and the theme is there.

They seem to think that if and when Obama's economic plan fails, or we get attacked again, the swing voters will all waddle back to the GOP with wet trousers and urine in their shoes.

I don't think that is going to happen. Bush/Cheney/Rove has fubared the GOP far more than Bill Clinton did the Dems. I don't think people are going to think, "Oh yeah, Sarah can get us out of this mess". Do you?

We currently have a two party system. If Obama fails, that could change.

That would be change I could really believe in.

Waiting and praying for Obama to fail and this country to fall into depression and chaos?

This is the exact same thing as when the right said that left got excited the months that there were more fatalities in Iraq. The left no more wanted that than the right wants the country to fall into a depression. geez

>We currently have a two party system. If Obama fails, that could change.

No one wants a failure, but if you are right about this, something good may come of it. I am sick of this two party system we have in this country.

White House senior adviser David Axelrod said the president won't rule out a health care reform bill that includes a middle-class tax hike.

all pretense of no tax hikes for anyone making over 250,000 dollars has died a unsurprising death,were you so stupid as to think obama was just going to tax the rich? its what liberals do take from you and give it to someone else.

From the Colorado homeless shelter to rural Pennsylvania clinics that can accept new patients, health centers that serve the poor are among the first places the federal stimulus package is being spent.

The stimulus law sets aside $2.5 billion for free and low-cost health clinics, and a big chunk of it about $500 million is already being spent. The White House has promised another burst of money this summer

is it a jobs dill or a welfare bill? jobs created=0

Since this is devolving into a right v. left wankfest, let's see if I can get this back on point...

I thought that this legislation was critical to ram through because it was so important to jumpstart the economy so we would be out of this recession by early 2010? Remember the rush to push it through and then Obama went on vacation before he signed it?

If that was not the case, then what was the rush to add another 700+ billion on the credit card? Unless they knew all along that this money wasn't going to stimulate in an expedited process.

Any way you slice it, the American people were sold a false bill of goods by the Obama administration...again.

"It took Dubya 8 years to finally fuck the economy."

#5 | Posted by northguy3

No. The f'ing started back in the Reagan era with the exponential increases in defense spending and continued through ensuing administrations.

Dubya simply put the thick coat of icing on the huge debt cake with the (illegal and immoral)incursions into Iraq and Afghanistan.

Why Obama is continuing these policies Over There only indicates to me that there is far more going on than just the standard line of Liberating these people for Democracy.

I have yet to read or hear a good reason as to why the US invaded Iraq after 9-11, and then chose to occupy at length. Do not tell me it was to end the Evil of Saddam: the US could have/should have done that years before.

You can count on the fact that if he can squeeze a tax hike in on health care costs, he will bulldoze it through...this does not really affect his real 'electorate'..!!!
Also, it is not about the timing of whether he can turn the economy around that stinks of NOBAMA, it is the method... and, if he is so damn smart, why is the money not going out fast enough??? as long as government drives the bus, the faster we fall off the cliff.. he has thrown a big wrench in the cogs of 'free enterprise' and changed the machinery of the system that has always found it's way back...this is about a totally different story than the economy...
he will ride this to use in getting reelected by being on the 'cusp' and selling people that he is the only savior to continue his program.. too transparent on this account..
His and Axelrod's comments are only whiny excuses..

#29

blame, blame, blame

tsk, tsk, tsk

Under Reagan, Japan took over the automobile Industry. It got so bad that Reagan imposed quotas, which sent Japanese auto prices soaring and eventually led to Japan shifting facilities into the United States. With no oil or steel they accomplished this through a combination of domestic protectionism and automation, heavily subsidized by their Government. Japan changes regulations after foriegn ships leave port and then refuse to unload boatloads of foriegn cars. They audit every Japanese person that purchases a foriegn car. When our trade negotiators show up, they are told its just because of quality issues and they roll over while our press plays along.

Reagan painted himself into a corner with all the free market talk. No one else plays by any such rule. After Reagan left office, the Japanese were so grateful they paid him $2 million to give one speech.

I thought that this legislation was critical to ram through because it was so important to jumpstart the economy so we would be out of this recession by early 2010? Remember the rush to push it through and then Obama went on vacation before he signed it?

If that was not the case, then what was the rush to add another 700+ billion on the credit card? Unless they knew all along that this money wasn't going to stimulate in an expedited process.

Any way you slice it, the American people were sold a false bill of goods by the Obama administration...again.

#28 | Posted by IraqiBukkake at 2009-06-29 09:04 AM

Arguing over scraps, ignoring the elephant in the room? Whatever.

Our nation and the world continues to head torwards a massive depression and nothing is being done to address it. The Republicans rob us to pay the bankers, the dems spend like drunken sailers, they both throw money into a war of agression.

I have yet to read or hear a good reason as to why the US invaded Iraq after 9-11, and then chose to occupy at length. Do not tell me it was to end the Evil of Saddam: the US could have/should have done that years before.

#29 | Posted by ZOT at 2009-06-29 09:15 AM

Iraq has the 2nd largest proven reserves of crude oil. We removed ourselves from Saudi Arabia at the request of OBL. SH had 12 years prior proven he could not be worked with.

As I have said for years, Iraq-get used to it.

There had been many methods before and still available to handle SH, if chosen.... we did not have to spend the money and life to bolster the ego of one man...!!!! the decision to invade had little to do with intelligence..!!!

impact of stimulus...sounds like a whopping case of constipation to me! EL TORO MIERDE!

That's all you've got?

Waiting and praying for Obama to fail and this country to fall into depression and chaos?

What a fine bunch of patriotic Americans you are.

Cheerleaders for disaster with flag pins on your lapels.

#12 | Posted by silver_ironist

You make the mistake of conflating "cheerleading for disaster" with "analyzing policy 'solutions' (sic) and then attempting to predict the results, and unintended consequences, of said 'solutions'."

Huge difference.

Again - why the contradiction of the need for stimulus IMMEDIATELY or else we experience disaster and then have said "stimulus" (sic) trickle-in over a period of a couple of years. It's kinda akin to "Hurry up and wait!"

Not to worry...

Bottom line, there is no way to "measure" the effect of the stimulus bill. If they spend a trillion dollars and we lose 500,000 jobs, they can say "See? We would have lost 2,000,000 jobs had we not passed the stimulus!" Saying "it takes time" means they haven't been able to come up with a formula that makes the administration look good yet. It'll be there eventually.

You know what else would have taken some time? Leaving it the hell alone and saving a trillion dollars. This economy would be right where it is right now. The stimulus will not have an impact. We should have come up with a well thought out plan for a complete overhaul of our infrastructure and spent that money and that's it.

So far, the only thing the stimulus has accomplished is make unamed people wealthier than they already are. Democrat, Rethuglican, Shrub, Obama hasn't made a dimes worth of difference. In Iran the Mullah's decide who can and cannot run for office. In the USA Wall Street decides.

As for Iraq, we have been sent packing, with nothing for the squandering of $3 trillion. Iraq has taken over the green zone and doesn't wan tus anymore. They need to rebuild their country and desperately need us out of their way before anything will be rebuilt. Trouble is 4 million competent Iraqis (everyone who could afford it), have left, further complicating their own efforts.

You know what else would have taken some time? Leaving it the hell alone and saving a trillion dollars. This economy would be right where it is right now. The stimulus will not have an impact. We should have come up with a well thought out plan for a complete overhaul of our infrastructure and spent that money and that's it.

Oh, it will have an impact. It's just that the impact that it has might not be the one we're hoping for.

February 15, 2009 11:36 AM

"I think that there will be signs of activity very quickly," Axelrod said of the stimulus legislation, which awaits President Obama's signature.

Kind of like a "slow screw".

I'm reading a lot of Right wing whiners talking about how wtupid the stimulas packages are. Do you understand why they are being put in place? Why do you think Bush did the first one last year? If you are going to bash it, please state why it isn't a good idea and let us know what your solution would be. If its cutting taxes, which taxes and why? It would go much farther that statements like "Obama wants to bankrupt America".

A stimulus that requires plenty of time before it stimulates is otherwise known as...

...an appropriations bill or a budget.

Stimulus should do just that. Regrettably, the only thing Obama has stimulated is more Government growth.

And just to chime in as a guy that voted for Bush but DID NOT like his expansion of government..

What I'd like to hear from some Obama supporters is that "yes we like Obama, but we are not going to go along with his continued expansion of government"

The republican party paid a big price for rubber stamping Bush's expansion.. don't be too sure the Dems aren't going to face the same punishment. Obama is making Bush's expansion look like child's play.

Duh.

It took Dubya 8 years to finally fuck the economy. Rightwingnuts whine because Obama hasn't fixed it in 8 minutes.

#5 | Posted by northguy3

Newt Gingridge was running the country in the 90's and the economy was great.

The economy went sour after the 2006 election!

Who was in charge of Congress, again, Einstein?

I don't make this up. These are the facts.

Let the 'free enterprise' system work... do not let government interfere.. what fails should do so and what survives will be stronger and there will always be new recoveries.. to continue to prop up organizations that have already shown failure makes no sense.. maybe this country needs a totally good 'shakeup'... do any of us want to feel that..hell no, but it will be better in the long run and has always found a way to take care of itself... we should worry more about our 'congress' continuing to support sending jobs and manufacturing away from the US..tougher tariffs, etc.. rebuild the foundation that this country started with.. we have, and continue, to mortgage our nation away to the Chinese and others and pretty soon there will be no real strength here if we keep reelecting these clowns... stimulus will hurt more out of our pockets in the long run than just letting the 'free enterprise' system run it's course...

I guess that is why they were in such a hurry to pass it that no one had any time to read it. Come to think of it, the CAP AND TRADE bill is the same way.

Do you understand why they are being put in place? Why do you think Bush did the first one last year? If you are going to bash it, please state why it isn't a good idea and let us know what your solution would be. If its cutting taxes, which taxes and why? It would go much farther that statements like "Obama wants to bankrupt America".

No, explain to us why they're spending money that is printed out of thin air. Money that, upon it's "creation" comes with built-in debt. Debt that, so long as we're under the thumb of the Federal Reserve, can never be paid off in full.

I'll Bash it because he's continuing the policies of George W Bush while also expanding government to a level that only GW could dream of. The worst thing about it is he's doing it with the approval of dip shits who don't know any better.

So let's figure that either one of two scenarios will occur.

A. The stimulus will eventually work, despite naysayers, sadly it's created a unimaginable amount of debt. Eventually, someone is going to want a return on their investment. Who pays for it? Leftists always accuse the righties of not thinking about the future and the planet we leave behind for our children and grand children, yet here we have the same exact outcome, only different policy causing it.

B. The stimulus doesn't work, America's economy continues on a downward spiral. The very rich loose some money, but they retain all of the control. The middle class disappears and join the poor in the breadlines. Voila, you've just approved the creation of the oppressive state this country was created to get out from under. Give yourself a big hand.

The answer to the question is to remove ourselves from the control of the Federal Reserve. Make them accountable to the congress, as it should be and force them to open their books for an audit.

I think that 'wet noodlerod' would be a better name for the girlie man.

"The answer to the question is to remove ourselves from the control of the Federal Reserve. Make them accountable to the congress, as it should be and force them to open their books for an audit."

All of that sounds great and in an economics class might be a good argument. UNfortunately, the world is not an economics class. What you are proposing would be a complete devaluation of the dollar, your country would be completely broke after your "experiment" in civic economics. The "strength" of the dollar and the economic stability of the US is based on the collective value of the United States. Any attempt to audit it, and thereby reduce its value will undercut our currency, our wealth, our economic future.
China and Russia, right now, would be co-sponsors of legislation to audit the Fed, if they could be.
You might want to consider the unintended consequences of revealing our P & L statement to the world. Auditing the Fed is a Pandora's box thought up by simplistic people who deal with the world as it ought to be instead of the way it is.

"B. The stimulus doesn't work,"

Thank God, Roosevelt didn't have to deal with such impatience. If anyone thought unemployment numbers would already be going down they are seriously unrealistic. It took DECADES to get here, we aren't going to dig our way out in months.

"A. The stimulus will eventually work, despite naysayers, sadly it's created a unimaginable amount of debt."

The vast majority of the Federal debt was there before the stimulus bill was ever considered.

All of that sounds great and in an economics class might be a good argument. UNfortunately, the world is not an economics class. What you are proposing would be a complete devaluation of the dollar, your country would be completely broke after your "experiment" in civic economics. The "strength" of the dollar and the economic stability of the US is based on the collective value of the United States. Any attempt to audit it, and thereby reduce its value will undercut our currency, our wealth, our economic future.
China and Russia, right now, would be co-sponsors of legislation to audit the Fed, if they could be.
You might want to consider the unintended consequences of revealing our P & L statement to the world. Auditing the Fed is a Pandora's box thought up by simplistic people who deal with the world as it ought to be instead of the way it is.

You're such an easily lead sheep, Danni.

A couple of months ago, you were calling for an end to the Federal Reserve. Now the people who run it scare your dirty panties off of you and you're perfectly happy letting shit slide.

Why is that?

At what point do you think it will be ok for an audit of the Federal Reserve? If an audit can cause the economy to tank even further, I guess the logical conclusion is that if we don't want any trouble out of the economy, we should let the swindlers and thieves do as they please.

Shit, I'm not even calling for an end of the Federal Reserve. I'm calling for them to be accountable to congress.

Thank God, Roosevelt didn't have to deal with such impatience. If anyone thought unemployment numbers would already be going down they are seriously unrealistic. It took DECADES to get here, we aren't going to dig our way out in months.

Did Roosevelt promise that his plans would work nearly over night for those shovel ready projects?

February 15, 2009 11:36 AM

"I think that there will be signs of activity very quickly," Axelrod said of the stimulus legislation, which awaits President Obama's signature.

"All over the country you're going to see shovels in the ground. You're going to see construction projects under way. The other thing you're going to see are people not being laid off - police and firefighters and teachers - because states now are going to have funding to forestall those kinds of things. So I think you'll see an effect of it, but in terms of the overall economy we're in the worse recession since World War II and it's going to take - it took us a long time to get into this mess - and it's going to take us a while to get out of it."
blogs.abcnews.com

That's the very same guy a few months ago you stupid fucking cow.

The vast majority of the Federal debt was there before the stimulus bill was ever considered.

When the Current President is finished, I think he will have put it to shame.

All you need to do to understand the doctor's "free enterprize system" is play a game of monopoly. How many winners will there be?

There has already been massive intervention. Haven't you noticed? Misguided in the extreme, but water under the bridge.

That's the very same guy a few months ago you stupid fucking cow.
...
#57 | Posted by Axiom at 2009-06-29 11:19 PM | Reply | Flag: Bush voter calling someone stupid...

#57 | Posted by Axiom at 2009-06-29 11:19 PM | Reply | Flag: Bush voter calling someone stupid...

I only voted for Bush once. At most, I can be accused of being naive.

What's your excuse? Mush for brains?

There has already been massive intervention. Haven't you noticed? Misguided in the extreme, but water under the bridge.

Yeah, I've noticed. I've also noticed that the bankers who were responsible for the fraud that caused our economic woes are still in control of our money supply.

So where's the harm in forcing them to be accountable to Congress, again?

We should have come up with a well thought out plan for a complete overhaul of our infrastructure and spent that money and that's it.

#41 | Posted by everlong

NO!!! We should quit spending what we don't have. There is no way we can borrow our way out of the hole we are in. Does it work for you at home???

It's funny watching "liberals" argue that a quasi-private bank should control our nation's money supply AND not be accountable to congress!

February 15, 2009 11:36 AM

"I think that there will be signs of activity very quickly," Axelrod said of the stimulus legislation, which awaits President Obama's signature.

"All over the country you're going to see shovels in the ground. You're going to see construction projects under way. The other thing you're going to see are people not being laid off - police and firefighters and teachers - because states now are going to have funding to forestall those kinds of things. So I think you'll see an effect of it, but in terms of the overall economy we're in the worse recession since World War II and it's going to take - it took us a long time to get into this mess - and it's going to take us a while to get out of it."
blogs.abcnews.com

#57 | Posted by Axiom at 2009-06-29 11:19 PM

If anyone thought unemployment numbers would already be going down they are seriously unrealistic.
Posted by danni

You mean like the guy you voted for to be President?

You mean like the guy you voted for to be President?

The one who said it's going to get worse before it gets better?

"Nothing but excuses, and anything but holding their president accountable."

So tell us...how long do YOU believe it takes for a stimulus plan to stimulate?

The one who said it's going to get worse before it gets better?

#65 | Posted by Danforth

The one who said unemployment would be no higher than 8.8% after pissing away $800B?

"The one who said unemployment would be no higher than 8.8% after pissing away $800B?"

Link?

So tell us...how long do YOU believe it takes for a stimulus plan to stimulate?

#66 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-06-30 09:49 AM

They said "very quickly." They said I'd see shovels on the ground and people not getting laid off. I'm not seeing either of those things. I'm not opposed to stimulus; the spending I've railed most against has been the bail outs. However, I question the motive and competence behind it's construction.

"They said "very quickly.""

Were they talking politics or geology?

"I question the motive and competence behind it's construction."

I do to. But being a student of economics, I know it's not an overnight happenstance. And I also see a lot of jobs not being lost due to less panic. Not that it's any consolation....

"www.reteaparty.com"

No, not the 8.8% claim; that was foolish wishful thinking.

The "pissing away $800B" claim, specifically the "pissing away" part.

And I also see a lot of jobs not being lost due to less panic.

Did you check statistics for that, or your mood ring?

"Did you check statistics for that, or your mood ring?"

Do you see panic apropos to the situation, or do you not?

The "pissing away $800B" claim, specifically the "pissing away" part.

#73 | Posted by Danforth

LOL...I added "pissing" Maybe fritter or squander is more appropiate.

"Maybe fritter or squander is more appropiate."

Okay....NOW I'm with ya....

I do to. But being a student of economics, I know it's not an overnight happenstance.

#72 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-06-30 10:03 AM

I'm no student in economics, but congress rushing through these h-u-g-e spending decisions is crazy. Never mind that the CBO has predicted a net loss in GDP from the stimulus by 2019 despite whatever short term growth it produces (albeit very small loss).

The stimulus bill money is not going to resolve the real issues of the economy... it is not going to bolster or rebuild the small business base that is eroding.. it is not going to restore any confidence due to the fact of the way that it has been presented and the 'knee-jerking' of the American conscience with it.. until the banking system gets back on sound footing with lending to where the money really needs to go and with some more stringent regulation, we are going to continue to flounder.. is it a quick turnaround under any solution..well, duh, of course it is not.. but, with the present leadership and the congress we have, we certainly do not even have a legitimate beginning..the key word 'legitimate'..!!!
We are throwing money to the wolves..period..!!!
Money needs to circulate throughout, not down dark drains..!!!

"We got mixed signals from Washington, one minute saying we'll see quick recovery, shovels in the ground, etc..., and then in the same paragraph, "but it's going to take time.""

I never heard "quick recovery"; I think it would have pricked my ears if I had, since it's a ludicrous thought.

Other than that, despite shovels in the ground quickly, it's going to take time.

even though I didnt want to I made myself sit through this liars lies on two shows sunday and in both cases but really so with george.
he was stammering and stuttering and then got right into his lieing mode when asked about all of the lies and broken promises of obama about
NO NEW TAXES....
I was wondering if obama was going to say something about reading his lips but thats been done already

and it was dems who used that to win in 1992..any bets that lies about raising taxes wont EXACTLY be so important to dems this time around

WOW>.
another great post
right to the point
decimated the subject of the thread
and used a historical fact to base and prove the arugment

sometimes I amaze myself

never heard "quick recovery";

then you werent listening. shovel ready pretty much means ...lets start digging.

and we were also told that if it wasnt passed...YESTERDAY >>.that the republican was going to fold...
many months later, most of it hasnt even been spent

"then you werent listening. shovel ready pretty much means ...lets start digging."

But that doesn't mean "quick recovery", except to the delusional or uninformed.

"any bets that lies about raising taxes wont EXACTLY be so important to dems this time around"

Let's use you as the barometer: did you vote against Daddy Bush because he lied about "no new taxes", or did you vote for him again anyway?

That's like comparing a pin head to Mount Everest.

Wis--

C'mon now...it's not nice to call Afkabibble a pinhead.

I never heard "quick recovery"; I think it would have pricked my ears if I had, since it's a ludicrous thought.

#80 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-06-30 10:50 AM

Still, the impression is that this quick activity would bring relief with it in the short term. I'm just not seeing it.

"Still, the impression is that this quick activity would bring relief with it in the short term. I'm just not seeing it."

Maybe my expectations were worse, but I just finished a season of 300 +/- tax/financial clients, and while a handful had lost their jobs, there was a lot of anxiety, but not that much panic. Just MHO, but I think if folks didn't have the feeling their government at least seems to "understand", it'd be a lot worse.

(BTW, "understand" --in real terms-- is the government stupidly try to overborrow out of an overborrowing crisis. Please don't take the explanation as an endorsement. )

Maybe my expectations were worse, but I just finished a season of 300 +/- tax/financial clients, and while a handful had lost their jobs, there was a lot of anxiety, but not that much panic. Just MHO, but I think if folks didn't have the feeling their government at least seems to "understand", it'd be a lot worse.
#89 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-06-30 11:52 AM

(BTW, "understand" --in real terms-- is the government stupidly try to overborrow out of an overborrowing crisis. Please don't take the explanation as an endorsement. )
#89 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-06-30 11:52 AM

I'm not happy with Obama yet. I expected things to get worse before they got better, and they are still getting worse, but not as badly. I'll continue to proceed cautiously. We'll see after more time.

"It's funny watching "liberals" argue that a quasi-private bank should control our nation's money supply AND not be accountable to congress!"

Axiom & Live or DIe,

I'm with you 100%, whether you call me a liberal or not.

The bailout is the worst financial crime in the history of civilization. Planned and executed, with a misleading cover story, by at least two people in charge of the Federal Reserve and Treasury Department. Whereas their job descriptions imply a duty to serve the public it should be obvious to the most casual observer that they are only concerned with the well being of rich gamblers, fraudsters, market manipulators, tax cheats and thugs, (ie their pals).

Bernanke withdrew $100 billion from interbank reserve funds ten days before running to Congress crying "interbank lending crisis". Three economists from the Minneapolis Federal Reserve debunked his story in its entirety. Paulson comes from Goldman-Sachs, Rubin and by association Summers from Citicorp, together these institutions have taken the lions share of the taxpayers money. Their reward for being dishonest motherfuckers.

Absolutely outrageous that this amount of money can vanish overnight with zero honest debate within the majority parties while they painfully argue about a fraction of that being used to improve the standard of living of their taxpaying citizens for twenty years. Where is the outrage? Colbert got out his pitchfork once to no effect.

I'm with you 100%, whether you call me a liberal or not.

Nutcase, I don't care if you're a liberal or not. It's my own fault for lumping all liberals in with the sheep like danni, etc. One minute, they're all for accountability in all levels of government, then someone says "boo" they changed their minds.

It's like republicans and 9/11. Say the magic word, they'll shit their pants.

The American people are being shit on. Democrat, Republican, Independent, Greeen, whatever. The people grabbing more and more for themselves don't give a damn which party ideology you support. All they want is to make sure you're distracted and afraid. When you're scared, you'll do anything they want.

No, explain to us why they're spending money that is printed out of thin air. Money that, upon it's "creation" comes with built-in debt. Debt that, so long as we're under the thumb of the Federal Reserve, can never be paid off in full.
-Axiom

So your response is that you don't have an answer other than to say you don't like this plan. OK, I'll take the bait.

A stimulas plan is designed to restart the economy. Kaynsian Economics will tell you that there are a few things that will stimulate the economy...

Short Term
-Government Spending (War time - see WWII which finally got us out of the depression)
-Reduced Taxes (You haven't seen Obama rollback any of Bush's massive tax cuts and you won't until the economy recovers)

Long Term
-Education (See Obama's plan to offer tuition assistance) I had to pay 2% interest under Clinton and 6.8% under Bush when I wet back to get my masters.

Everything Obama is doing is following this plan to fix this broken economy short and long term. The plan behind it is to spend in the short term until there is a recovery, invest in long term education and pay for the debt with the revenues gained in the future. Those of you expecting a recovery in 6 months are insane, especially with the unemployment rates which are "sticky" and won't recover fora long time. We shouldn't look for them to start stabalizing until the 4th quarter.

So, there is the plan. You got a better one?

Axelrod? Did he used to sing for Buns n' Hoses?

Benfranklin -

Those are all great spending programs you have listed there. With them, what you're basically saying is 'give us what we want right now, let someone else pay for it. I don't care if we're up to our eyeballs in debt to a bunch of private bankers. it's my kids and grand kids problems.'

None of your points address my question. They're all very good talking points that we've seen dozens of times before.

Why should we stand by and watch central government take our money and hand it over to the people who caused this problem?