Does this house read ANYTHING?

Republicans accused the Democrats of ramming the bill through the House. Rep. Joe Barton (R-Tex.), managing the debate for his party, asked repeatedly if there was even a copy of the current version of the bill anywhere in the House chamber. Democratic Rep. Ellen Tauscher sitting in the speaker's chair although she's already been confirmed as Obama's undersecretary of State for Arms Control and International Security repeatedly dodged the question.

Rep. Ed Markey (D-Mass.), one of the bill's sponsors, finally rose to say that a single copy of the current version of the bill was available at the speaker's desk and on the Internet, which members would have to leave the floor to access.

That wasn't good enough for House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio), who delayed the roll call vote by reading page-by-page through a 300-page managers' amendment Democrats added at around 3 a.m. Friday. Boehner seemed to relish the hour-long stunt, picking out the bill's most obscure language and then pontificating about what it might or might not mean. Republicans laughed along with him and roared with applause when he was done.

Glad the Congress is addressing climate change. About damn time. I wish the process of getting legislation passed wasn't fubar, though.

Yeah - address it - good. Pull this BS? NOT COOL.

Wonder what is in that Amendment. Off to find it.

about time Rethugs finally learned how to read. Now what were those arguments again suggesting that there wasn't even enough time to read this bill?

Here is the actual bill:

"the nation's first-ever limits on pollution linked to global warming"

Is a good and long overdue thing.

Agreed the way Congress passes shit w/o reading it is pure bullshit.

Be Well.

Not the bill Donner - the Amendment added in at 3:09 AM this morning.

Don't try to spin this. You should be appalled that the people elected to represent you are passing things and not even reading them.

Hope and change

SUCKERS

I can't wait to see gasoline, heating oil, natural gas, electricity prices skyrocket.

Hope and change

It's too late.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I am going to start a profit-non-profit to plant trees and get the gov't to pay for it.

They have lots of slush funds available for trees.

Zat--your link is broken

Bah - I don't care which team they play for - I'm never going to agree with anything 100%. I can't stand the way either side makes deals and adds things that do not pertain to the original issue at hand. Its despicable. Passing this without even reading the whole thing makes me FURIOUS.

1200 pages, one copy.

40 Dumbos voted no. I guess they're some of the retrograde, pants-pissing naysayers that Northguy et al will be along to vilify, shortly.

Waiting on the Senate now, in the meantime, I'll be setting up some very lucrative trades in the event it passes there. Go Dems!

I can't wait to see how 3 million new jobs will be created, given that the cost will be only $175 per American household. That's the kind of math that gets Chinese grad students and bond investors giggly whenever the Treasury Secretary walks into the room.

Sorry Murph, it works just fine here, your ISP sucks.

"I can't wait to see gasoline, heating oil, natural gas, electricity prices skyrocket."

And everyone should remember this bill when they start crying about Corporate Executives price gauging.

They have no idea what they voted on in this bill. Irresponsible doesn't even begin to define what happened today. What was the rush? Why did it have to get rammed through so fast that nobody can honestly say they've read and understand it?

MASS EXTINCTION UNDERWAY

The World Wide Web's Most Comprehensive Source
of Information on the Current Mass Extinction

Sorry Murph, it works just fine here, your ISP sucks.

#17 | Posted by Zatoichi

Why is that? Can I fix it?

" Can I fix it? "

No, it's hopeless.

See now all the other links work?

This climate legislation bullshit is going to destroy us. Especially the poorest in this country.

Erlich just got off a bit on his timing, but the Population Bomb alone has to be confronted; Ain't happening in an orderly manner, I'll wager.

The empirical evidence from Europe and Down Under is strong against this bill having much of any effect on the environment. The cost and job loss in Europe(Spain 18% unemployment) is huge. Our friends Down Under can't wait to get away from Cap and Trade, they are in the process of voiding their version. It has killed their economy. Too bad no one in Washington was willing to look to those who have already traveled down the road they are taking us too. Even the people in favor of this Cap and Trade were confused, they should have let people read it. The main foundation of reduction comes from reduced consumption, thus companies produce less. Consumption goes down because in part of increased costs. Pinhead Waxman was saying that their was no cost, but he was referring to cost to the govt. That is because they are collecting money from businesses, who will then pass on that cost to consumers. If this was not true, then why did the bill have to write in grants and money to be give to low income Americans to off set the increased cost to them. Europe and Aust have proved this is a failure. If if looks like Sh*t, smells like shi* and our friends say it taste like _hit, then why must our govt be so stupid to shove it down our throats. I am guessing that it will take the govt 10 years to realize it is sh*t.

"bullshit is going to destroy us"

It already has.

They have no idea what they voted on in this bill. Irresponsible doesn't even begin to define what happened today. What was the rush? Why did it have to get rammed through so fast that nobody can honestly say they've read and understand it?

Same with TARP, same with the stimulus. If people actually sat down and read it, there is no way they could pass it with a good conscience.

I agree that we should be good stewards of the planet.

But this bill is not it.

They have no idea what they voted on in this bill. Irresponsible doesn't even begin to define what happened today. What was the rush? Why did it have to get rammed through so fast that nobody can honestly say they've read and understand it?

#18 | Posted by GreenDad at 2009-06-26 08:05 PM | Reply | Flag: Agreed.

#26 | Posted by TownL7

That's because we have a pretend POTUS that has no idea what he is doing.

Same with TARP, same with the stimulus. If people actually sat down and read it, there is no way they could pass it with a good conscience.

EXACTLY. We just let them do it - and they will continue to do so.

"But this bill is not it."
#29 | Posted by MURPHY at 2009-06-26 08:13 PM

Has anybody even read the damn thing?

As long as these folks refuse to use nuclear breeder reactors, we're going to have a problem. And it's way too late to build 'em now. France has done well, however. I rode a nuclear-electric powered TGV train from Paris to Milan ten years ago and my pilot's GPS said we were going 178 MPH. SMOOOOOOOOOOOTH! (Until we got to Italy, then 35MPH.)

No the reactor wasn't on the train.

there's nobody saying there is a quick fix to this situation, which means taking a few extra days or a week to really get it all read through and debated would not have mattered. I'd bet there is something in this bill they don't want us to know about.

....Passing this without even reading the whole thing makes me FURIOUS.

#14 | Posted by badjuju at 2009-06-26 08:02 PM

BADJUJU, I agree with you 100%.

The same thing was done with the Stimulus Bill and thousands of other bills signed into law. BOTH PARTIES do it all the time -- sign off on and vote on a bill they've never read.

Would YOU put your signature on a bill being submitted to be passed into law which consists of hundreds, sometimes thousands, of pages and never have even read it?

No one would do think of doing something so stupid. Yet our politicians do it ALL the time.

They let some 25 year old staff member do the reading for them and point out a few items they think their boss might be interested in while the rest of the bill goes unread.

We should DEMAND that NO bill ever be allowed to be signed off on by anyone in Congress unless it had been read in its entirety by the politician signing it.

And it's always done on a Friday too, when it slips by the public because it's ignored by the media.

It infuriates me that the politicians all then use the excuse "We didn't have a chance to read the bill" before we voted to get out of having passed a lousy bill.

This time it was done by the Democrats. Before the Republicans would do the same thing all the time. This continuing of our Congress members not reading these bills has got to STOP.

Would any of us sign a real estate contract or sign up for cable tv and not at least read most of it before agreeing to sign it? Or any contract? No. Yet these "fools on the Hill" do it all the time.

pelosi didn't let this set for 24 hrs (the amendment) as she promises on her own website. typical. will PBHO post it for the 5 (?) days before signing it, if the senate passes it? or will it be another 'emergency' that permits another politician to lie to their consituency?

Yeah--it is a slush fund to drop more money into for years to come.

Cost --3.5 trillion over ten years.

Not to mention what you and I will pay.

The costs to the economy will be staggering and the jobs lost.

how is a 7 vote win a 'triumph'? I call that a close call, and the Repubs who voted for this morons.

Doing away with the career politicians might improve this some. No lifetime benefits. 4 years and you are out.

The Heritage Foundation = Fox News. One is a rightwing whore masking as a think tank. The other is a rightwing whore masking as a News Network.

Wrong thread 8?

The Heritage Foundation = Fox News. One is a rightwing whore masking as a think tank. The other is a rightwing whore masking as a News Network.

#42 | Posted by moder8 at 2009-06-26 08:23 PM | Reply | Flag: Doesn't respond on point; attacks the messenger; thinks not reading massive legislation before passing it is OK; typical O'tard

I think he is lost because I can't see how this is relevant at all....

this bill won't change the climate one f*ckin' bit. this is just a money grab

if they really wanted to do something about climate change why don't they force the other industrialized nations to AT LEAST bring their pollution standards to meet ours

but, the environment isn't want this is about, like I said it's a money grab from you and me

"We should DEMAND that NO bill ever be allowed to be signed off on by anyone in Congress unless it had been read in its entirety by the politician signing it."

CC--Obama promised that bills would be online for 5 days before voted.

He is a cronic liar.

The extra 300 pages known as the Manager's Memo or some such were dropped in the hopper at 3 am this morning.

And all those pages added, changed, deleted something in the first 1200 pages they wrote.

All the back door crap--Boehner was reading for an hour from the 300 pages.

We are so screwed.

typical O'tard

#44 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

FF

That's catchy.

Why is it that it is always the wingnuts who scream "moneygrab" when anyone other than their own leadership passes expensive legislation? Strange coincidence, huh?

Le Gasp. He sure did Murphy... I had to look into that when you made that statement.

Moder8 - you come in here, spout off some BS, do not address the issue then pick ONE comment out of a score to post on.

You are a fucking joke.

"States don't all have the same potential for producing electricity from renewable sources, and for some, even a 12 percent mandate is excessive. North Carolina, for example, recently developed its own mandate of 7.5 percent and in selecting this number, the state legislature ignored the state's own consultant, who stressed that 5 percent was the realistic number. Entire regions of the country, such as the southeast, will get slammed by such a federal mandate.

Since the mandate can be met in part through the purchase of renewable electricity outside a state, it will lead to a wealth transfer from southeastern and some midwestern states with low renewable-electricity potential (due to low wind resources) to states with higher renewable-electricity potential, such as Texas and California. Also, states forced to "buy" renewable energy from other states wouldn't actually use the electricity. Rather, an electricity customer in (for example) Georgia would pay higher electricity rates to subsidize renewable electricity in Texas.

Further, a federal standard would cut short the efforts of state governments efforts that very well might solve the "problem" by themselves. According to the Energy Information Administration (EIA), about half of the states already have their own renewable-electricity standards. Most of these state requirements have been around less than five years; it is too early to conclude that these state experiments have failed, and that we therefore need a federal cookie-cutter approach.

Another problem with Waxman-Markey is that while wind power, solar, and some biomass are included, hydropower and nuclear power are excluded. Hydropower is a renewable and fairly effective source of electricity its exclusion makes no sense. The exclusion of nuclear power, while not surprising, shows how disingenuous this push for "renewable" electricity really is."

Renewable Energy Scam

Shocking that a rightwing hack like badjuju would cry "hack". Anything to avoid acknowledging the intelligent and responsible leadership of President Obama. Anything to avoid acknowledging the devastating incompetence of the GOP White House and Congress during the Bush. Unbelievable. What tools. LOL.

Global warming does not yet have enough scientific data to back attributing climate change to being mostly man-made.

Obama -- this is bullshit you pulled. Sneaking in on a Friday a HUGE and COSTLY bill on ALL Americans which will shoot our gasoline prices sky high. Global warming is still an UNPROVEN science. There is not enough years of data accumulated yet to pinpoint or even validate global warming and its causes.

I live in California and I have seen first hand what tax after tax being added on to a gallon of gasoline costs all done in the name of "protecting the environment" did to my wallet.

Last year, you all were paying $2.50 a gallon across the U.S. while it was costing me and other Californians more than $4.00 a gallon to fill up my car because the California Democrat liberals who run Sacramento (and that includes stupid Gov. Arnie too) put tax after tax on every gallon of gas for every environmental protective clauses they could dream up.

You ain't seen nothing yet, folks, when it comes to the taxes that are going to be demanded to be put on your gallons of gas or heating oil costs by the rest of the world's global community (who apparently seem to be the ones our "globalist" President Obama caters to). The rest of the globalists will demand Americans pay tax after tax to prevent "pollution" they will say we caused here in the U.S.

I told y'all I was willing to give Obama a chance and I voted for him. I also said when he blew it on some issue I would call him on it. I'm calling him on this one.

Obama did this in a very underhanded and sneaky manner. Gas and heating prices and costs for environmental protective measures are going to shoot through the roof and cost Americans a ton of money in taxes. I'm against pollution as much as the next person but I don't want to allow some half-baked, as yet unproven, pseudo-science cost me a fortune because the rest of the globalists in other countries see the U.S. taxpayer as an easy "deep pocket."

well, you've now proven you are a tool by calling me a right wing hack when you know NOTHING about me or my views. I'm calling YOU out on facts, you are pulling something out of your arse.

Did I hurt they angry little man's feelings? Can you add anything intelligent, on point or relevant here?

Bush and the congress were out of control with spending.

Why aren't you yelling about it under Obama?

And that is not all--

Obama is mulling over a SECOND STIMULUS! Because the first one worked so well--right?

He'll be known as the "Son of Stimulus".

"Anything to avoid acknowledging the intelligent and responsible leadership of President Obama"

I not bashing Obama here, because this isn't his fault, but if he signs into law a bill that has been passed but not read entirely by anyone can you really call that intelligent or responsible?

President Obama promised there would be a 5 day period before he signs anything, I hope he lives up to that here, because this at least needs a solid ONCE over.

Obama -- this is bullshit you pulled.

This is bullshit everyone one of they that voted yes pulled.

"Global warming does not yet have enough scientific data to back attributing climate change to being mostly man-made. "

#54 | Posted by CalifChris at 2009-06-26 08:36 PM | Reply | Flag: bullshit

Fact is it's TOO FUCKING LATE.

On the Influence of Carbonic Acid in the Air upon the Temperature of the Ground

Well for one thing, I know badjuju is a sniveling whiny little pseudo-libertarian turd for brains. That is about all you've demonstrated to me so far.

I don't have leadership in the Congress. Yet, I am part of the largest voting group in the US, independent for 20 years. I believe that BOTH parties are in it for money, power and control. The parties are only interested in getting reelected, they put their interest over the peoples. This bill gives huge powers to the Fed Govt, destroys state rights, feeds money to Wall St. The following benefit from this bill;
Big Business(GE)
Big Govt or the class of govt elite
depending on the grants--the poor(but unlikely)

This means that 98% of the population is getting screwed by GOP and DEM in Washington. We need term limits on every govt official.

O! I got you to read my little note. Good job.

I've still not attacked you on anything besides what you've posted in this thread. You are a very angry person and should seek help.

"this is bullshit you pulled. Sneaking in on a Friday a HUGE and COSTLY bill on ALL Americans which will shoot our gasoline prices sky high."

If this bill is equivalent to a dollar a gallon gas tax hike it's a good thing. The free energy lunch is over, fools.

let's get back to the basics: how is this tax bill going to change the climate?

answer: it won't

This means that 98% of the population is getting screwed by GOP and DEM in Washington. We need term limits on every govt official.

I'm not sure many would disagree with this line of thinking.

We as a country just got pwned.

CC--

All of the housing requirements here in CA --windows, doors, AC/Heat are now to be extended to the country.

And for added measure--it's in the 300 pages--when YOU sell YOUR HOME--there is going to be some bureaucrat BOARD who will require the HOME be checked out for ENERGY requirements.

AND if it is NOT up to the standards--YOU the SELLER will be required to bring the home up to whatever they claim needs to be fixed before you are able to sell your home.

Affordable housing is a thing of the past.

Liberty and Tyranny.

Obama is big on taking away any Liberty and doles out the Tyranny like friggin candy.

In the 300 pages there are like 100 new boards and czars to be created to watch over all this credit scam shit.

I've attacked you because you're a sniveling whiny pseudo-libertarian turd for brains. I don't know where, but there must be some place you can seek help.

Obama is big on taking away any Liberty and doles out the Tyranny like friggin candy.
...
#66 | Posted by MURPHY at 2009-06-26 08:44 PM | Reply | Flag: Bush voter

Great! I tried to find what the amendment contained and could not. I want to see it myself.

Happy Friday Retort!

Have a great weekend :)

ditto, on term limits. three terms and you're out

Great! I tried to find what the amendment contained and could not. I want to see it myself.

Go to c-span and watch the Boehner video--maybe youtube in a couple of days.

Can you spell FILIBUSTER!!!

"Go to c-span and watch the Boehner video"

Who in fuck wants to watch that asshole? You actually did that? Holy shit you need to get a life.

BTW, Murphy, since you're watching Boner, why is his face orange?

Go to c-span and watch the Boehner video"

Who in fuck wants to watch that asshole? You actually did that? Holy shit you need to get a life.

#73 | Posted by nullifidian at 2009-06-26 08:54 PM

2 funny. I suppose you mean he/she should get a life like yours?

They have no idea what they voted on in this bill. Irresponsible doesn't even begin to define what happened today. What was the rush? Why did it have to get rammed through so fast that nobody can honestly say they've read and understand it?

#18 | Posted by GreenDad at 2009-06-26 08:05 PM

The commies are making their move. Hitler would be proud.

The commies are making their move. Hitler would be proud.

#76 | Posted by Washboard

Kinda mixed your metaphors there Bucky.

Stupid fucking rightwingers can't even get their insulting metaphors to make sense.

This climate legislation bullshit is going to destroy us. Especially the poorest in this country.

#24 | Posted by IraqiBukkake at 2009-06-26 08:11 PM

The poorest and laziest are those that put the Obaminator where he is today. Anyone that has done any living and observed life around them didn't vote for this marxist prick.

Y'all DO know that this still has to pass the Senate, right? The Senate is writing their own version, and then the 2 will have to be blended and agreed on before ANYthing goes to Obama for signature.

Now if we really were hitleresque as Washboard suggests, we might round up all the stupid rightwing assholes which breed like rats in Red States, perform abominable experiments on them, gas them to death, and then burn them in ovens.

*Sigh*

"2 funny. I suppose you mean he/she should get a life like yours?

#75 | Posted by Washboard"

Too stupid. You don't know whether I live in a mansion or under a bridge. "Washboard" apparently describes your brain.

Reuters says the Senate MAY write its own version of the bill, but there is a possibility they won't take it up this year.

And all that great hysteria and hyperbole gone to waste here.

Now if we really were hitleresque as Washboard suggests, we might round up all the stupid rightwing assholes which breed like rats in Red States, perform abominable experiments on them, gas them to death, and then burn them in ovens.

*Sigh*

#81 | Posted by moder8 at 2009-06-26 09:14 PM

In due time I'm sure. You'd like that too, right?

We "red stater's" aren't real fond of yall either.

We're going to keep breeding too. It's all in the numbers, dumb ass.

We're going to keep breeding too. It's all in the numbers, dumb ass.

#84 | Posted by Washboard

And yours are dwindling so you'd better kick it into high gear Gomer.

Ignorance is bliss and tonight the "Sky is Falling" sheeple and the House of Ignorant Fools will be very blissful.

I am shocked the RCADE is grazing with the sheeple.

To celebrate this massive tax increase to fix a problem THAT DOESN'T EXIST makes the Y2K panic look intelligent in contrast.

As The Illinois State Museum states: ""If 'ice age' is used to refer to long, generally cool, intervals during which glaciers advance and retreat, we are still in one today. Our modern climate represents a very short, warm period between glacial advances."

So while the Village Idiots on Capital Hill are running around saying that THE SKY IS FALLING, the Illinois State Museum is saying we are in the middle of an ICE AGE!

FACT: In the last NINE YEARS, the average temperature of the Earth has FALLEN, not risen.

FACT: The idea that man-made pollution is responsible for global warming is not supported by historical fact. The period known as the "Holocene Maximum" is a good example-- so-named because it was the hottest period in human history. The interesting thing is this period occurred approximately 7500 to 4000 years B.P. (before present, which is between 5500 BCE and 200 BCE)-- long before humans invented industrial pollution.

What will this bill do? Reduce CO2 emissions. Why? Because the sheeple have been convinced by AlGore that CO2 emissions are causing the average world temperature to RISE.

FACT: There are only TWO periods in the last 600 MILLION years when the average world temperature has been lower than it is today.

FACT: In one of those two periods of world history, while the average world temperature was LOWER than it is today, the level of CO2 in the atmosphere was 1,700 parts per million. Do any of you know what the average level of CO2 in the atmosphere is TODAY? It is averaging 380 ppm. which is FOUR AND ONE HALF TIMES LESS than it was the last time that the world's average temerature was LOWER than it is today.

FACT: A majority of CO2 that is found in the atmosphere has always been here, not added by man's activities.

FACT: the LARGEST component of "greenhouse gas" found in the atmosphere is WATER VAPOR, which constitutes NINTY FIVE PERCENT of all "greenhouse gasses".
Man contributes less than 1/10 of one percent of the water vapor found in the atmosphere.

Fact: These numbers are not "oukked out of the air" by ME, they have been gathered by the U. S. Government who CHOSE to EXCLUDE water vapor from the list of "greenhouse gasses" because it on't make AlGore and his minions richer if people realize that there is no such thing as Global Warming caused by muman activity.

#86 | Posted by TheShyGuy at 2009-06-26 09:36 PM | Reply | Flag: makes up shit

Happy extinction, dipshit, you deserve it.

Come on Shy. Didn't you read this?

""The scientists are telling us there's an overwhelming consensus ... global warming is real and it's moving very rapidly," said House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, the chief sponsor of the legislation."

There is no consensus but that doesn't stop the gullible from believing that there is.

#86 | Posted by TheShyGuy at 2009-06-26 09:36 PM | Reply | Flag: makes up shit

Happy extinction, dipshit, you deserve it.

#87 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2009-06-26 09:45 PM | Reply | Flag : Trembling while stabbing his voo doo doll.

Zatochi,

My, another Sheeple "herd" from...Be careful that you don't eat any poison ivy. Baaa....

The only thing that will become extinct here is your wallet after The Messiah gets done shearing you...

This is a blessing in disguise.
This is the most embarassing case of "shooting self in foot" that any Congress drunkenly mad with control has ever exhibited.

see you fucks in 2010.
Maybe by then SArogue will have lifted her window shades or even ventured outside away from her computer.

maybe not.

Washboard,

To quote AlGore in an interview he had May 9, 2006:

"Nobody is interested in solutions if they don't think there's a problem. Given that starting point, I believe it is appropriate to have an OVER-REPRESENTATION OF FACTUAL PRESENTATIONS on how dangerous (global warming) is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are..." (emphasis is mine)

Of course, being chairman and co-founder of Generation Investment Management which is a company that SELLS carbon credits wouldn't have influenced him to try to stampede the Sheeple, would it?

As far as scientists, who could put it better than this:

"Researchers pound the global-warming drum because they know there is politics and, therefore, money behind it. . . I've been critical of global warming and am persona non grata."

Dr. William Gray
(Professor of Atmospheric Sciences at Colorado State University, Fort Collins, Colorado and leading expert of hurricane prediction)

#92 | Posted by TheShyGuy at 2009-06-26 10:03 PM | Reply | Flag: moron

Didn't do well in elementary thermodynamics, did you?

It's mildly entertaining watching the soon-to-be-extinct squirm.

If life in this one-in-billions solar system is to survive it must colonize Mars, wait for the mentally retarded shitstains to kill themselves off, and come back.

Happy extermination. You deserve it.

what is the current balance of dem vs repub in the House?

256 to 178????? ( i am not sure but that is close)

and this fucking pandering piece of pure trash only passed by 219- 212?

hello???

any alarm bells going off?

Like maybe the stupidity of this legislation even defies congressional partisan politics???

To be fair, I should quote some Global Warming advocates as well..

"We have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we may have. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest." - Stephen Schneider (leading advocate of the global warming theory)

So in other words, Mr Schneider says it is OK to lie to the people to further his beliefs...

"Scientists who want to attract attention to themselves, who want to attract great funding to themselves, have to (find a) way to scare the public . . . and this you can achieve only by making things bigger and more dangerous than they really are." - Petr Chylek
(Professor of Physics and Atmospheric Science, Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia)

"Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing -- in terms of economic policy and environmental policy."
Tim Wirth -Former U.S. Senator, Colorado

"No matter if the science is all phony, there are collateral environmental benefits.... Climate change [provides] the greatest chance to bring about justice and equality in the world."
Christine Stewart, Minister of the Environment of Canada

It's mildly entertaining watching the soon-to-be-extinct squirm.

If life in this one-in-billions solar system is to survive it must colonize Mars, wait for the mentally retarded shitstains to kill themselves off, and come back.

Happy extermination. You deserve it.

#93 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2009-06-26 10:09 PM | Reply | Flag: Wants to procreate with Buffalo Bob.

BTW Zat. Why limit it to one in a million. It's limitless, dumb ass.

if this bill becomes law Ohio folks will simply adjust - -

coal will be plentiful & cheap . . . we'll clear-cut some forests to assure an ample supply of fire-wood, then simply go back to heating with wood & coal
(oops - homes don't have those fancy emissions scrubbers that the clean coal power-plants have)

btw, this energy bill AND most of the stimulus bill spending COULD BE UNDONE in the 2010 & 2012 elections

"Why limit it to one in a million. It's limitless, dumb ass."

#97 |
Stupidly Posted by Washboard at 2009-06-26 10:17 PM

'life in this one-in-billions'

Learn to read shit-for-brains.

You're expecting a lot from a guy who doesn't know the difference between communism and national socialism, Zat.

Z,
You propose colonization of a dead planet in order to save civilization and you call me a moron?

Thank You. From something like you, I consider that a compliment.

As to elementary thermodynamics, what does that have to do with the price of milk?

But how will this bill passed by the Washington Village Idiots change the balance of exothermic and endothermic properties? Since greenhouse gasses prevent exothermic transfer of heat and 95% of greenhouse gasses consist of water vapor, where in this bill does Congress place controls upon the generation of water vapor?

Without doing this, the endothermic forces will override the exothermic forces and we will fry.

But then again, there are also no provisions in the bill to control the energy output of the SUN, which is the only source of endothermic forves. Since the congress can't control HOW MUCH energy the sun outputs, how can it balance the exothermic and endothermic functions?

Simple, it can't... so go back to your grazing and let us adults talk about this subject.

I not bashing Obama here, because this isn't his fault, but if he signs into law a bill that has been passed but not read entirely by anyone can you really call that intelligent or responsible?

President Obama promised there would be a 5 day period before he signs anything, I hope he lives up to that here, because this at least needs a solid ONCE over.

#57 | Posted by GreenDad at 2009-06-26 08:38 PM

What I don't understand, why not just increase energy taxes / cap emissions / etc...?

What's with creating this odd trading scheme? Surely they're writing abuse into the system.

Jesus, people, calm down!

We have a bicameral legislature.

For those of you that hate big words, that means Obama ain't signing shit until a bill passes the Senate and then is resolved with this one.

For fucks sake, the House is where the political fistjabbing is done.

The Senate is where the stupid shit gets taken out.

Remain calm, all is well. After all, MJ is still dead.

Don't execute your short trades, yet.

The Heritage Foundation = Fox News. One is a rightwing whore masking as a think tank. The other is a rightwing whore masking as a News Network.

Forget about The Heritage Foundation. Is it appropriate for the talking point to be parroted about that the impact for a family of four is around 200 dollars, when the basis for that analysis is based on a one year snapshot prior to the most stringent implementation of Cap and Trade? That is GAO information, not the Heritage Foundation.

This is the equivalent of driving a brand new car for three months, and then stating there are zero maintenance costs for the life of this car based on the time that you have driven it.

another bill not read and passed through the house time to replace these power mongers.

Get ready to pay out the A s s for all your energy needs and food

What was the reason to rush this bill to the floor and pass it?
Usually the house debates and compromises.
I don't get it.
Rush it through to the senate where it can sit and languish?
Are the rich toads in Washington really that far left?
Do they not care about who is going to lose jobs, and move companies out of the country in droves.
If the country is worried about losing manufacturing jobs wait until this garbage becomes law.
The companies will be lining up to hit good 'ol Mexico.
You think they will have cap and trade there?
Carbon dioxide is not a dangerous gas anyway.
These people are clowns that get paid a lot of money to protect us since we can't protect ourselves.
At least that is what they think.

This is the beginning of the end of my party, the only party willing to help blue collar labor and the poor. This nut crapola is our end. Abortion, gay "rights," animals are more important than humans......thanks, assholes. You destroyed the chance to help labor, FAMILIES and the poor.
The pubs will again take control when the price of this idiotic legislation hits. Then bye-bye actual Democratic values.

Republicans need to quit being hysterical here. Nothing happened in the House today that can't be undone by future legislation, signed into law by a more intelligent president.

The Dumbos just gave you a gift that could, if employed properly, reverse all the electoral gains they've made in the past six years. As soon as the extra onerous regulations, compliance costs, bureaucratic problems, and inevitable outsourcing of jobs and industry begins, Americans will be turning on anyone who voted for this giant turd.

Just keep saying NO, and let the Dems continue their "success". For now.

The number of skeptics, far from shrinking, is swelling. Oklahoma Sen. Jim Inhofe now counts more than 700 scientists who disagree with the U.N. -- 13 times the number who authored the U.N.'s 2007 climate summary for policymakers. Joanne Simpson, the world's first woman to receive a Ph.D. in meteorology, expressed relief upon her retirement last year that she was finally free to speak "frankly" of her nonbelief. Dr. Kiminori Itoh, a Japanese environmental physical chemist who contributed to a U.N. climate report, dubs man-made warming "the worst scientific scandal in history." Norway's Ivar Giaever, Nobel Prize winner for physics, decries it as the "new religion." A group of 54 noted physicists, led by Princeton's Will Happer, is demanding the American Physical Society revise its position that the science is settled. (Both Nature and Science magazines have refused to run the physicists' open letter.)

For every naysayer there is a 1000 in Gore's camp.

For every naysayer there is a 1000 in Gore's camp.

Who want to ensure their government funding.

That's fine. Wait 'til the bills start coming due.

Fact is, libtards deserve to pay for their decisions. They deserve to pay trillions of dollars to the Chinese so that Obama can save Lower Manhattan and Detroit from decades of stupidity, and to pay thousands of dollars a year in an Obama "Clean" Energy Tax, so he can further enrich Gore's pals.

It's justice. And I love it. Keep buying!

RIR I don't mind paying as long as I know you are.

Don't try to spin this. You should be appalled that the people elected to represent you are passing things and not even reading them.

-----------

There hasn't been a congressman with the intellectual equipment nor education to read ANY bill in over 30 years.

The only thing that any of them read is the corporate donation check.

those here who were ignorant enough to want this will in a few years: Scream, cry, rant and rave an pray for it to be undone.

It won't ever pass in the senate. It's all hype.

Mark my words in #166 above: Even though a Senior NCOs may not always right -- They are Never wrong :)

I'm concerned that the democrats are more concerned about an unproven science than the welfare of it's citizens.

If this bill does pass thru the senate, which it won't - it can't, all it will do is dig us into a deeper depression. No one but the rich people like Al Gore will be able to afford anything.

This bill is a first step toward reversing decades of irresponsible management of our planets environment. I am proud that the US government is finally taking the lead on this issue.

"Mainstream media is saturated with news of Michael Jackson's death, and not a word about one of the most significant pieces of legislation before the House. This passage of this bill is how our tax dollars will continue to be used to pay off international bankers for the collapse of the US economy." MR of wrh

works for me:>)

If Democrats really cared about going after polluters, they would have enacted a direct tax on CO2 emissions, but that would be too obvious to the public and the Democrats knew it.

CAP and TRADE is away to tax the public, but not make it so obvious.

Several Democrats that voted for it said it will probably cost them thier re-election.

If the Republicans can effectively mount a campaign before the mid-term elections about the cost of CAP and TRADE and link it to the Democratic Party, they might be able to make some gains.

#36 | Posted by CalifChris

Would any of us sign a real estate contract or sign up for cable tv and not at least read most of it before agreeing to sign it? Or any contract? No. Yet these "fools on the Hill" do it all the time.

------------------------------
---------
When you sign a Contract most likely it's your money.

Congress that is not the case.

This bill is a first step toward reversing decades of irresponsible management of our planets environment. I am proud that the US government is finally taking the lead on this issue.

#121 | Posted by moder8

only us humans are into clean/dirty balancing act and here in the USA we have things pretty good

a thinking person could see that HUGE environmental gains need to be made in emerging economies like China where 1 coal-fired power plant per month is going online (not clean coal) - or India where the rivers are open sewers

this US energy tax stuff = pissin' in the enviromental wind - a wealth re-distribution plan by some elite bookworms INTENDED to hurt me, my family, and my neighbors

#127 | Posted by markh
this US energy tax stuff = pissin' in the enviromental wind - a wealth re-distribution plan by some elite bookworms INTENDED to hurt me, my family, and my neighbors

--------------------

Couldn't agree more.

Other countries are returning to reality so what's causing our own leftist-socialists to cling so tightly to this global warming/cap and trade fiasco? It's a huge scam and WE are the scamees.

"New Zealand last year elected a new government, which immediately suspended the country's weeks-old cap-and-trade program.

The number of skeptics, far from shrinking, is swelling. Oklahoma Sen. Jim Inhofe now counts more than 700 scientists who disagree with the U.N. -- 13 times the number who authored the U.N.'s 2007 climate summary for policymakers. Joanne Simpson, the world's first woman to receive a Ph.D. in meteorology, expressed relief upon her retirement last year that she was finally free to speak "frankly" of her nonbelief. Dr. Kiminori Itoh, a Japanese environmental physical chemist who contributed to a U.N. climate report, dubs man-made warming "the worst scientific scandal in history." Norway's Ivar Giaever, Nobel Prize winner for physics, decries it as the "new religion." A group of 54 noted physicists, led by Princeton's Will Happer, is demanding the American Physical Society revise its position that the science is settled. (Both Nature and Science magazines have refused to run the physicists' open letter.)

The collapse of the "consensus" has been driven by reality. The inconvenient truth is that the earth's temperatures have flat-lined since 2001, despite growing concentrations of C02. Peer-reviewed research has debunked doomsday scenarios about the polar ice caps, hurricanes, malaria, extinctions, rising oceans. A global financial crisis has politicians taking a harder look at the science that would require them to hamstring their economies to rein in carbon."

#129 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2009-06-27 08:37 AM | Reply | Flag: Imagines online.wsj.com is peer-reviewed literature

Proc. Natl Acad. Sci. USA 105, 1525815262 (2008)

#130 | Posted by Zatoichi

ummm, did ya want to mention that the Natl Academy guys all get US government paychecks????????????

just sayin'

"Imagines online.wsj.com is peer-reviewed literature"

You obviously scanned too lightly over this paragraph, Zat. It appears you aren't the only azzhole with a scientific, peer-reviewed pool. Read it more slowly and note the words, "Peer-reviewed research has debunked..."

"The collapse of the "consensus" has been driven by reality. The inconvenient truth is that the earth's temperatures have flat-lined since 2001, despite growing concentrations of C02. Peer-reviewed research has debunked doomsday scenarios about the polar ice caps, hurricanes, malaria, extinctions, rising oceans. A global financial crisis has politicians taking a harder look at the science that would require them to hamstring their economies to rein in carbon."

I really hate to have to point out more that there are more than just ME who seriously doubt YOUR "scientific" global warming hypothesis, Zat. You're being scammed TOO!

"The number of skeptics, far from shrinking, is swelling. Oklahoma Sen. Jim Inhofe now counts more than 700 scientists who disagree with the U.N. -- 13 times the number who authored the U.N.'s 2007 climate summary for policymakers. Joanne Simpson, the world's first woman to receive a Ph.D. in meteorology, expressed relief upon her retirement last year that she was finally free to speak "frankly" of her nonbelief. Dr. Kiminori Itoh, a Japanese environmental physical chemist who contributed to a U.N. climate report, dubs man-made warming "the worst scientific scandal in history." Norway's Ivar Giaever, Nobel Prize winner for physics, decries it as the "new religion." A group of 54 noted physicists, led by Princeton's Will Happer, is demanding the American Physical Society revise its position that the science is settled. (Both Nature and Science magazines have refused to run the physicists' open letter.)"

alot can be learned from debate, but many here on the DR are to say the least, disappointing

it seems that most my peers from the age of "question authority" got so enamored by elite or academic credentials they simply went into a trance and lost their ability to reason

just saying . . there are bad eggs on the right - left - and in the middle
and those who have lost the discernment to seek info and spot the "bad eggs" are what's dragging my country down

btw - the vast resources of the internet are like just like the brick library we went to in younger days - - -
the main difference ... the fiction section is not clearly marked - ya gotta be smart enough to figure it out

"I really hate to have to point out more that there are more than just ME who seriously doubt YOUR "scientific" global warming hypothesis, Zat. You're being scammed TOO! "

JustGettingOld, youy obviously only read the articles you like. None of the scientists mentioned in the WSJ article are claiming that global warming is not occurring. They are saying some of the research is not far along enough to pass complete judgement. They are also differing on how research should be done. They also want to make sure politicians and decision makers do not jump to conclusions and rashing make policies which may not work or be counter productive.

Scientists argue and disagree, frequently. It's part of the scientific method.

You on the other hand just want to believe there is no global warming because that's all your little mind can handle.

"You on the other hand just want to believe there is no global warming because that's all your little mind can handle."

And YOU, on the other hand want to believe there is global warming like Zat and Algore say 'cause you're hot for both of them and you want an invite to Zat's pool.

It seems you too choose to ignore the "peer-reviewed" part, the part about 700 scientists and the reversals by some who first supported the lie. You best stick with Al and Zat and just ignore everything els.

"The collapse of the "consensus" has been driven by reality. The inconvenient truth is that the earth's temperatures have flat-lined since 2001, despite growing concentrations of C02. Peer-reviewed research has debunked doomsday scenarios about the polar ice caps, hurricanes, malaria, extinctions, rising oceans."

I see they designate methane a greenhouse gas.

Does that mean vegetarians get a tax credit? I notice all the government hand outs from this bill are going to existing or new business not any to the public.

I have change my opinion though I used to think there was no difference in the two parties, now I see there is a clear difference one gives to one set of corps and the other gives to a different set of corps. In the end they both bugger the taxpayer.

"we are about to choke the lifeblood of our economy"
ben stein

"this is a congressional crime we are committing on the public"
ron paul

"god damned democrats"

afkabl2

TRAGEDY IN AMERICA

219-212

This is the worst piece of legislation I have ever seen in my lifetime.

no shit joe

and remember what it includes...
shit like free money given once a month to anyone who qualifies and it is set to even be direct deposited and its to make up for the lost purchasing power as a result of the bill
and just as boehner said in his speech last night
thie PROVES that dems KNOW its going to cost people money and raise taxes.

and just wait...health care coming and in the face of a REcession/ democrat caused depression and DOUBLE DIDGET unemployment...ADDING 20 million citizens to the role overnight with amnesty.

and THIS is the change people were duped into voting for

damn joe
I was looking over my last post to find some hyperbole or exxageration or overstating..
but its all laid out there just as it is....

an american tragedy in the making

this tells you just about all you need to know

Australia, and New Zeland are removing their Global Warming policies, which means that even if this stuff passes the muster of the Senate it's possible we can remove it latter.

YEAH but what do we tell china and india

they are getting such a kick and laughing so hard at us over this...I mean...shouldnt we worry about how they will react without this bullshit to laugh about...

Does anyone have Henry Waxman's home address?

Time to get the AIG Protest Busses rolling again.

you may be just a sample of the things that are about to explode on the political scene

I am afraid that the people who have been calling for a truce on the heated rhetoric or going to be even more in the background

THIS is war and no time to shrink from our duty to this country and THAT means to take out the dems and the repubs who IN THE words of ron paul

'have committed a congressional crime on the citizens of this country"

I for one whole-heartedly support this legislation, and the general intent by President Obama's administration to address our energy and ecologic concerns. As opposed to ignoring and exploiting it for the sake of short term profit a la Bush/Cheney/Halliburton.

this tells you just about all you need to know

www.foxnews.com

#141 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2009-06-27 12:43 PM | Reply | Flag

Fox News needs to learn the difference between the words "omit" and "emit".

I for one whole-heartedly support this legislation, and the general intent by President Obama's administration to address our energy and ecologic concerns. As opposed to ignoring and exploiting it for the sake of short term profit a la Bush/Cheney/Halliburton.

I agree. This whole plan is set up for long term exploitation and profits.

Cap-and-Trade is the replacement bubble for now-burst housing/subprime and securitized mortgages bubble.

Without a housing/subprime securitized mortgage bubble, the only way the banksters could connive to make money (at 50 to 1 leverage and at our expense) is cap and trade. If they could have thought of a better way, cap-and-tax wouldn't be on the table now.

Why? Because they will be running the markets for carbon 'offsets'!!!

The UBS's, Goldman Sachs, etc of the world will game the system the same way they gamed the securized mortgage system, with the full faith and backing of the Fed Reserve, SEC and Fannie and Freddie.

This is not to say that there should be no work done to clean up the environment, crack down on pollution, conserve energy, etc ... or that there may or may not be anthropogenic climage change. But none of that is what this is so-called Climate Bill is about.

Even Dennis Kucinich gets this.

If this bill is equivalent to a dollar a gallon gas tax hike it's a good thing. The free energy lunch is over, fools.

#63 | Posted by nullifidian

Yeah, let's butt-fuck the poor and middle-class the hardest! Let's chase even more of your beloved manufacturing jobs out of this country.

Let's tax ourselves into 3rd world status!

That's the ticket!

"Let's tax ourselves into 3rd world status!"

Fuck that! Spending our way there is MUCH more fun!

cool..

Yeah, let's butt-fuck the poor and middle-class the hardest! Let's chase even more of your beloved manufacturing jobs out of this country.

Let's tax ourselves into 3rd world status!

That's the ticket!

#150 | Posted by JeffJ

its already happened and you have reagan, bush, clinton and Jorge Bush to thank.. along with a repub congress and a dem congress during ray-guns tenure.

Anybody who believes this shit actually has any kind of impact on "climate change" is a fucking moron.

Even if, for the sake of argument, we take the macro-climate change computer models (which are becoming increasingly dubious on a daily basis) as infallibly accurate; measures such as 'Cap-n-trade- and 'Kyoto' end up having such an miniscule effect on "climate change' that we shouldn't even bother.

If anyone has other reasons why this is a good idea I am willing to listen. But don't sit there and act as if we are saving the planet with this shit - we are not - not even close.

Now watch as the economic climate changes! LOL! The more socialism fails, the more they say socialism is needed.
The last president this mentality brought on was Reagan. The next one this absurd econonsense brings on will be worse.
And, of course, it will NEVER be the fault of leftwing ideologues.

If anyone has other reasons why this is a good idea I am willing to listen. But don't sit there and act as if we are saving the planet with this shit - we are not - not even close.

Cap and trade?

Sounds too much like a shell game.

The financial sector trades peper back and forth and make a fortune while everybody else sucks it up in higher costs.

The goal of maintaining reasonable anti-pollution standards is a worthy one but the actual mechanism proposed here for achieving that seems overly ripe for corruption by the usual suspects.

Be Well.

Spud,

The problem is in classifying CO2 emmissions as 'pollutants'.

No realistic measure of man-made CO2 reduction will have an iota of impact on "climate change".

If other logical reasons exist for attempting to curb CO2 emmissions via rote - I am all ears. Just don't pretend that this shit is saving the planet when it isn't - I direct this comment toward a generic "you".

Here are the scum that screwed America and will be screwed when they seek re-election:

"Congresswoman Mary Bono Mack" Republican CA

"Congressman Michael Castle" Republican DE

"Congressman Mark Steven Kirk" Republican IL

"Congressman Leonard Lance" Republican NJ

"Congressman Frank A. LoBiondo" Republican NJ

"Congressman John M. McHugh" Republican NY

"Congressman Dave Reichert" Republican WA

"Congressman Christopher Smith" Republican NJ

"Here are the SCUM that screwed America"

LET US NOT FORGET THESE LIBERAL ASSHOLES AT ELECTION TIME.

C'mon, Ozzie, let's see if your tunnel vision, curious obsessions, fractured personality, lack of intelligence, mountain of fears, and trembling bundle of fears let you stay here a week before the hates of a little boy's shattered imagination trapped within the body of the last kid to be chosen for the junior high baseball game -- and that, only because everyone has to have a chance feel they belong -- get your sorry ass booted out for another holiday at the DR's version of the Not-So Funny Farm. Such a pathetic loser.

The theme song for the eight Republicans who voted for the "cap and trade" bill will be "So long, it's been good to know you."

Here they are:

The 8 cap-and-tax Republican turncoats again are:
Bono Mack (CA) (202) 225-5330
Castle (DE) (202) 225-4165
Kirk (IL) (202) 225-4385 (And he's seriously considering running for Senate!)
Lance (NJ) (202) 225-5361
LoBiondo (NJ) (202) 225-6572
McHugh (NY) (202) 225-4611
Reichert (WA) (202) 225-7761
Smith (NJ) (202) 225-3765

Mary Bono Mack is the late Sonny Bono's wife, who apparently has remarried, who represents the Palm Springs area. What her rationale is, is not apparent.

Good idea guys---dump those turncoats---no chance they'll be replaced with dems.

REP. MARY BONO MACK'S STATEMENT ON HER VOTE FOR THE "CAP AND TRADE" BILL

This was an extremely difficult vote to take, and I took the last few days talking to as many people as possible to hear from my constituents.

Regardless one's view on the cause of global climate change, I believe it's time our nation become energy independent and embrace future clean energy sources that can help take us in that direction. As we look to reduce our reliance on foreign oil, we must have energy policies that first, focus on increased domestic energy production, and also on expanding our clean, renewable resources.

It is that forward-thinking approach to our nation's energy future that brought major U.S. companies like General Electric and Nike to support legislation like this over the years. Legislation provides certainty that companies like these need to invest in new clean energy solutions and bring us closer to realizing the benefits of these new technologies.

My district is in a unique position: we have vast potential for more wind, solar, and geothermal energy to be built in Riverside County. Due to the state of the economy, it's crucial that those who are out of work from various industries can look to the jobs that can be created from pushing for more green energy in the area.

It's also important to remember two key points: the Supreme Court has given the Obama Administration's EPA the authority to regulate greenhouse gases and also that our state is already living under California's stringent AB32 that created a state GHG regulatory system.

The last thing I want is the EPA coming in and regulating every small business and farm in California. This federal bill is actually LESS stringent than the regulations we're seeing coming our way as a result of AB32. Furthermore, this legislation REMOVES the authority for the EPA to regulate GHG's, and also puts the brakes on the State's regime. Allowing for a more national approach to this issue is vital to me, as we aren't in this alone. California has already taken steps to embrace clean energy options, and this bill will reward those efforts, rather than allowing AB32 to force Californians to foot the burden alone.

I worked hard to improve a bill that I never cosponsored and agree still needs improvements. This includes more domestic energy production like nuclear power, a clean, viable energy option California should aggressively pursue, along with enhanced focus on innovation and technologies that will put us ahead of the rest of the world.

We can lead this effort so that the rest of the world will seek our expertise, our manufactured products, and our vision.

#161 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2009-06-28 08:36 AM

C'mon, Ozzie, let's see if your tunnel vision, curious obsessions, fractured personality, lack of intelligence, mountain of fears, and trembling bundle of fears let you stay here a week before the hates of a little boy's shattered imagination trapped within the body of the last kid to be chosen for the junior high baseball game -- and that, only because everyone has to have a chance feel they belong -- get your sorry ass booted out for another holiday at the DR's version of the Not-So Funny Farm. Such a pathetic loser.

Somehow you seem to post screeds regarding posters rather than presenting any opinions on the subject matter at hand.

But that's understandable, since you are first and foremost a song and dance man, who is crafting his skills as a rapper to join in a relatively new genre. "Here's Doc," doing the dozens with the best of them.

Keep on truckin' dyspeptic Doc, present your "material" with the salient characteristic being "devoid of content."

YOU EAT SHIT!

#160 | Posted by ozzieoswald

You'd think by now you'd have figured out the kind of stuff that keeps getting you booted.

Or not.

#150 | Posted by JeffJ posted:

Let's tax ourselves into 3rd world status!

That's the ticket!

#153 | Posted by Legio at 2009-06-27 11:13 PM commented.

its already happened and you have reagan, bush, clinton and Jorge Bush to thank.. along with a repub congress and a dem congress during ray-guns tenure.

The question is, does Legio object to the perpetuation of Obama's policies and programs as destructive to the American eocnomy, or does he support them and somehow excuse them as continuations of destructive programs.

If the destruction of the economy is in process, Legio, do you support continuation of the process? Or do you oppose it?

The "third world" standard of living seems to be a goal of the Obama administration as productivity decreases spiraling downwards. tax collections - income and sales decrease, and those people not working require support to survive in an urban and suburban model. In the meantime there are massive redistribution programs to "the poor and minorities." And of course, to the elites. For one, check the federal programs for aid to poor and minority school districts, which somehow does not result in improved performance. Is it possible that you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. We're supporting a huge infrastructure of poverty pimps, most operating underneath the radar.

#163 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009-06-28 08:44 AM

Good idea guys---dump those turncoats---no chance they'll be replaced with dems.

But what the heck, if on a crucial vote these infamous eight voted against America's interests, boot them out. They are without value anyway.

Anyway Bob, some help for you, an attitude adjustment:

As you wend your way through life
Let this be your goal,
Keep your eye upon the doughnut
And not upon the hole.

Buck up old boy.

This advice comes from the tiled walls of Simon's Cafeteria in Los Angeles, California.

Good idea guys---dump those turncoats---no chance they'll be replaced with dems.

#163 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob
* * * * *

Doesn't matter. Either the Republican Party has principles, or it does not. Either that party elects people who adhere to those principles, or it does not. If you're a RINO, you're gone. That's why McCain lost the votes of millions of conservatives; whether or not the party as a whole learns its lesson is yet to be known.

#169 | Posted by rightisright at 2009-06-28 09:33 AM | Reply | Flag

Until republicans stop putting party over country---their party is marginalized. You are a perfect example. Get in lockstep or GTFO. Or is that goosestep.

The people you are castigating gave careful consideration and voted for what they thought best for the nation. You want them to vote the party line.

" your(sic) to(sic) supid(sic) "

#171 | Posted by ozzieoswald at 2009-06-28 10:32 AM | Reply | Flag: self retort trifecta

ozzie will be suspended again by nightfall. He just can't control himself.

What part of the fact that Oz is an illiterate with the IQ of lint makes me a "liberal"?

JACKASS: Very approprate name!

ozzie you represent the right very well.You are a brain dead imbecile.

Lint everywhere is insulted.

Lint everywhere is insulted.

Doc, present your "material" with the salient characteristic being "devoid of content."
#165 | Posted by Johnson

This,from the guy who specializes in tons of content utterly devoid of worthwhile substance? Thanks, Johnson, I'll be sure you give your advice all the lack of attention it deserves.

I think I'm going to declare myself to the Clown Report to be a Liberal ASSHOLE. Than I can put anything I want on this thread as long as I am bashing the republicans.
#173 | Posted by ozzieoswald

Oozie, you could declare yourself to be anything you want and all you'll ever merit is the attention people give to a three-headed calf.

LET US NOT FORGET THESE LIBERAL ASSHOLES AT ELECTION TIME.

#159 | Posted by ozzieoswald at 2009-

one thing that is very clear and should be remember in the districts of the dems who voted no
THE amount of votes for this shit was predetermined as THIS is the way they do things
pelosi KNEW how many of these 44 dems are in for tough re election campaigns and watch out for this in 2010.
they will say to thier people..>I VOTED AGAINST IT when they were ALLOWED to vote no by pelosi so they can say that with a straight face when the whole time they knew it would pass with this number or close to it.
so you see they pass the shit but have made it to where these guys didnt have to put thier vote where their REAL opinion was...

and YEs...I am sure republicans have done it too but that is well beside the point.

as far as the 8 republicans..fuck em........

The people you are castigating gave careful consideration and voted for what they thought best for the nation. You want them to vote the party line.

#170 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

The people he is castigating voted for a massive piece of legislation that is going to royally fuck this nation.

BOB...
as I said...several of the dems voting no are in tough races or expect to be as they are some of the BLUE DEMS that rhom and the others went after in the last election to get elected so they could have this stranglehold on congress.
and NOW this is to protect them in 2010..

AND there was some sort of deal made with dems in the midwest and farming country as this as the ability to destroy farms all over the country
farms and other places who are dependent on energy prices...
just like the "DEAL" that congressman gene green got here in houston. there are five refinaries in his district and he made some sort of deal with waxman about them not having the same requirements..at least not for a while...

AND AS I have posted here many times before..
republicans might vote no a lot but remember those 5 words george will talks about and the word NO is the most important one

'congress shall make no law"

OOPS FORGOT

also..dems in houston area vote YES all the time for obama no matter how bad it is for thier 'people'...so which is worse...no all the time or lockstep with the obama cult...

If this bill is equivalent to a dollar a gallon gas tax hike it's a good thing. The free energy lunch is over, fools.

#63 | Posted by nullifidian

Why is that a good thing?

We've been over that many times, Jeff. Reducing the consumption of non-renewable energy, especially imported oil is good trade policy, good economic policy, good foreign policy, good energy policy and good environmental policy. And possibly good climate policy as well, but I'm agnostic on that.

Null,

good energy policy

The problem is that when we prop-up non-competitive forms of energy like wind and solar, what is the incentive to continue their development, if as they exist now their use is mandated by the government. They shouldn't be used in anything other than niche applications until they are developed to a point of being competitive.

good trade policy

Perhaps.

good economic policy

I disagree. Jacking up the cost of energy means people have less money to spend elsewhere. Spending is largely what drives the economy.

good foreign policy

Perhaps.

"The problem is that when we prop-up non-competitive forms of energy like wind and solar, what is the incentive to continue their development"

I'm not in favor of that. The incentive should be higher oil prices, which I advocate. Then the market can sort it out and pick the winning and losing technologies.

"I disagree. Jacking up the cost of energy means people have less money to spend elsewhere. Spending is largely what drives the economy."

Energy efficiency is good economics in the long run. A country with 5% of the world's population cannot consume 25% of the world's oil indefinitely. The adjustment will be more painful pretending that high gas prices are a problem, rather than a market signal that the good old days are gone.

I know I'm being selfish and not "politically correct" not to want to have solar and wind as alternative energy measures but have you SEEN those huge wind turbine generators?

Meanwhile Mother Jones uses an ad for their magazine that says 2/3 of corporations don't pay any taxes....

Energy efficiency is good economics in the long run.

I don't disagree. However, much of the actions taken by our government to get us there have been counter-productive IMO.

A country with 5% of the world's population cannot consume 25% of the world's oil indefinitely.

I guess it depends on how long "indefinitely" is. I have seen nothing to indicate any kind of carbon shortage in the foreseeable future. Given that, I think it's counterproductive to bring down the standard of living of 300+ million American citizens toward the goal of largely eliminating the use of carbon energy.

The incentive should be higher oil prices, which I advocate. Then the market can sort it out and pick the winning and losing technologies.

Higher? I guess it comes down to more specifics then. The number can be driven SO sky-high that grossly inferior sources of energy win-out by default; without any real need for constant development and improvement on their end.

I don't see how they would ever be able to totally replace most of our major energy sources.

Sans a Manhattan Project breaktrhough, they can't. Heavily mandating their use is likely to triple our energy costs and we'd STILL have to have plenty of coal-based power to back them up.

Subsidizing wind and solar at their current levels of technology is beyond stupid. About the only carbon-tax I could support would be a modest ($1-2 per cubic ton emitted) and direct tax on carbon output and have the revenues fund research and development ONLY for alternative energy sources. As I've stated (and Null seems to agree) propping up grossly inferior sources of energy is bad policy.

just unlock Tesla's classified files on free energy & the banker's won't get their cut in this bill!

"just unlock Tesla's classified files on free energy & the banker's won't get their cut in this bill!"

Why? Did he invent a miracle carburetor that allows cars to run on tap water?

Did he invent a miracle carburetor that allows cars to run on tap water?

#198 | Posted by nullifidian

I believe that was another fellow that got murdered for his troubles

#184 | Posted by JeffJ at 2009-06-28 02:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

Says you. Who made you an economics expert?

AND there was some sort of deal made with dems in the midwest and farming country as this as the ability to destroy farms all over the country
farms and other places who are dependent on energy prices...

#185 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2009-06-28 02:52 PM | Reply | Flag

Farms get free welfare money for not growing anything. Most farms are giant conglomerates. The day of the small farmer is long gone.

........When Nikola Tesla invented the AC (alternating current) induction motor, he had great difficulty convincing men of his time to believe in it. Thomas Edison was in favor of direct current (DC) electricity and opposed AC electricity strenuously. Tesla eventually sold his rights to his alternating current patents to George Westinghouse for $1,000,000. After paying off his investors, Tesla spent his remaining funds on his other inventions and culminated his efforts in a major breakthrough in 1899 at Colorado Springs by transmitting 100 million volts of high-frequency electric power wirelessly over a distance of 26 miles at which he lit up a bank of 200 light bulbs and ran one electric motor! With this souped up version of his Tesla coil, Tesla claimed that only 5% of the transmitted energy was lost in the process. But broke of funds again, he looked for investors to back his project of broadcasting electric power in almost unlimited amounts to any point on the globe. The method he would use to produce this wireless power was to employ the earth's own resonance with its specific vibrational frequency to conduct AC electricity via a large electric oscillator. When J.P. Morgan agreed to underwrite Tesla's project, a strange structure was begun and almost completed near Wardenclyffe in Long Island, N.Y. Looking like a huge lattice-like, wooden oil derrick with a mushroom cap, it had a total height of 200 feet. Then suddenly, Morgan withdrew his support to the project in 1906, and eventually the structure was dynamited and brought down in 1917.

BuffaloBob -

I just happened to see in the "Flagged Comments" section that your post to me the other day -- the one about how I should do like you did and make a list of "people to ignore" -- has received 8 funny flags! Guess a lot of people got a laugh out of your suggestion for some reason.

#203 | Posted by CalifChris at 2009-06-28 04:48 PM | Reply | Flag

Probably the people on the list.

Probably

just unlock Tesla's classified files on free energy...

TANSTAAFL

Says you. Who made you an economics expert?

#200 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

Capntrade will increase energy costs by roughly 130%. It will likely decrease domestic oil production and increase foreign oil importation. It's quite likely that it will drive some non-oil production (and jobs with it) out of this country as well.

That, among other things, is why I believe it will F*** us big time.

Farms get free welfare money for not growing anything.

At the time of initiation, farm subsidies weren't a bad idea. However, they are now obsolete, but like most other government handouts, they never went away even though they should have.

Probably the people on the list.

BINGO!

TANSTAAFL

#206 | Posted by goatman

getting sunburnt by all that free energy again ~ goat?

getting sunburnt by all that free energy again ~ goat?

TANSTAAFL

well, I was getting sunburnt outside ~ so I came in to check the free net...

JeffJ

It might also spur some bright-eyed American who's tired of paying out the ass for gas, to come up with a better idea.

To spout doom and gloom over something before it has even been given a chance is simply not good for the country. Something has to be done. All the ramifications of this are not known---can't be known--until it has been tried. Then if it isn't working as expected, try an alternative. But something has to be tried--what do you suggest? Doing nothing? I disagree. Most things seem to be in balance--if we have taken too much out of the balance of nature, it would seem logical that payback would be painful. But it must be paid back--nature's payback collectors do more than break arms and legs.

Is Ozzie capable of an intellegent response?

Is Ozzie capable of an intellegent response?

#215 | Posted by jackass

got me?

It might also spur some bright-eyed American who's tired of paying out the ass for gas, to come up with a better idea.

Except that if we view all of the mandates and subsidies AND 'sin' taxes in their totality, what it does is prop up inferior technology - hence, not coming up with a better idea, but foisting on us an inferior idea.

To spout doom and gloom over something before it has even been given a chance is simply not good for the country...All the ramifications of this are not known---can't be known--until it has been tried.

We have economists, actuarials, scholars, planners and journalists for a reason. This is a HUGE piece of legislation that will cost possibly trillions of dollars. We'd better damn well analyze the shit out of it prior to passing it given the numbers involved. This was rammed through the house, and that in itself is beyond repugnant. Yes, we don't know exactly what will happen. However, the educated guesses put forth thus far are pretty grim.

what do you suggest? Doing nothing?

Sometimes doing nothing is far better than doing something/anything and having these taken actions more than backfire.

Most things seem to be in balance--if we have taken too much out of the balance of nature, it would seem logical that payback would be painful.

That's a nice platitude, but it does nothing to illustrate how we are "harming" nature by using this planet's resources. Hell, even the more primal animal-world and the food chain consumes resources.

Well, my last post got bounced and I got a nasty letter... so I will try and post again..

CO2 is not a pollutant. It is what HUMANS expel and plants inhale. So, the effect of a slight increase in CO2 would stimulate plant growth...

But, still, if you are that worried about it, then you need to stop breathing.

As for this idiocy of making people spend thousands of bucks a year extra on their utility bills... has anyone ever followed the money to see who's pockets they are going to end up in? I know, Al Gore makes an ass load of money... but who else will clean up on this latest "big lie"?

30 years ago, it was the world was cooling... then it was the earth is boiling, now its CO2... and next it will be something else... maybe the plants are all starving...

All this is to keep stupid people scared... so you can convince them they must agree to give to the gov't an amount of control they would never do otherwise.

Poor sheeple...

#219 | Posted by 1libertarian

Follow the money.

For some reason, not demonizing carbon energy is tatamount to being in their pockets; but actively touting "green" energy is being 'righteous'.

The illogic is mind-boggling.

All you dumbass voters that put the 219 dickheads in office that voted for this monstrosity and for all you morons that fell for the bullshit from the south Chicago messiah--you will never recover from the damage these people have done to your country, your future, your kids, and your grandkids. Kiss prosperity and the American way of life goodbye. Being a dumbass voter has real consequences....

Oh, I forgot, none of you slackers actually pays taxes!! You've hit the jackpot!! All you dumbass TAXPAYERS are the losers here.....

That's a nice platitude, but it does nothing to illustrate how we are "harming" nature by using this planet's resources.

We aren't harming anything. We are simply putting it out of balance. At least, out of balance as far as our survival goes. Nature will do just fine with or without us. The harm we are doing is to ourselves by polluting our own environment--like yeast.

Hell, even the more primal animal-world and the food chain consumes resources.

So? What's your point? Sometimes animals go extinct because of environmental changes. I imagine there were people on Easter Island who said cutting down the trees couldn't possibly hurt anything. I imagine they were the majority.

#218 | Posted by JeffJ at 2009-06-28 06:20 PM | Reply | Flag

#219 | Posted by 1libertarian at 2009-06-28 06:35 PM | Reply | Flag

Yes--its all a conspiracy to get your money. BOOO gimme your cash.