The Palestinians were offered a state when the nation of Israel was created.

They preferred war.

Arafat was offered a Palestinian state.

They preferred war.

Now, when once again they are being offered a state, Abbas rejects it.

They prefer war.

What has to change?

Part of the curriculum in the schools run by the Hamas etc. teach the children at a very early age that Israel is evil and must be destroyed. Attitudes at that age tend to crystallize. This goes back 90 years when the Muslim Brotherhood was formed and they needed an whipping boy for being ruled by the British.

They are VICTIMS and deserve more than peace. They need a victory to pump their egos.

#1 | Posted by silver_ironist

That's the western media myth the reality is quite different.

In order for Israeli state terrorism to end Palestinian non-state terrrorism must cease and vice versa.

The Palestinians have never recieved an offer of anything that resembled autonomy in their existence.

They have, on the other hand, supported various real two state solution over the years only to be firmly rejected by both the US and Israel each and every time.

All three players must be seriously on board in order for peace to occur.

Be Well.

How can israel simultaneously be a Jewish state and a democracy?

The Palestinians have never recieved an offer of anything that resembled autonomy in their existence.

Never is a strong word.

Agreement Between Emir Feisal ibn Hussein and Dr. Weizmann

His Royal Highness the Emir FEISAL, representing and acting on behalf of the Arab Kingdom of Hedjaz, and Dr. CHAIM WEIZMANN, representing and acting on behalf of the Zionist Organization. mindful of the racial kinship and ancient bonds existing between the Arabs and the Jewish people, and realising that the surest means of working out the consummation of their national aspirations is through the closest possible collaboration in the development of the Arab State and Palestine, and being desirous further of confirming the good understanding which exists between them, have agreed upon the following Articles;-

ARTICLE I

The Arab State and Palestine in all their relations and undertakings shall be controlled by the most cordial goodwill and understanding and to this end Arab and Jewish duly accredited agents shall be established and maintained in the respective territories.

ARTICLE II

Immediately following the completion of the deliberations of the Peace Conference, the definite boundaries between the Arab State and Palestine shall be determined by a Commission to be agreed upon by the parties hereto.

ARTICLE III

In the establishment of the Constitution and Administration of Palestine all such measures shall be adopted as will afford the fullest guarantee for carrying into effect the British Government's Declaration of the 2nd of November, 1917.

ARTICLE IV

All necessary measures shall be taken to encourage and stimulate immigration of Jews into Palestine on a large scale, and as quickly as possible to settle Jewish immigrants upon the land through closer settlement and intensive cultivation of the soil. In taking such measures measures the Arab peasant and tenant farms shall be protected in their rights and shall be assisted in forwarding their economic development.

ARTICLE V.

No regulation nor law shall be made prohibiting or interfering in any way with the free exercise of religion; and further the free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship without discrimination or preference shell forever be allowed. No religious test shall ever be required for the exercise of civil or political rights.

ARTICLE VI

The Mohammedan Holy Places shall be under Mohammedan control.

ARTICLE VII

The Zionist Organization proposes to send to Palestine a Commission of experts to make a survey of the economic possibilities of the country, and to report upon the best means for its development. The Zionist Organisation will place the aforementioned Commission at the disposal of the Arab State for the purpose of a survey of the economic possibilities of the Arab State and to report upon the best means for its development. The Zionist Organization will use Its best efforts to assist the Arab State in providing the means for developing the natural resources and economic possibilities thereof.

ARTICLE VIII.

The parties hereto agree to act in complete accord and harmony on all matters embraced herein before the Peace congress.

ARTICLE IX

Any matters of dispute which my arise between the contracting parties shall be referred to the British Government for arbitration.

Given under our hand at LONDON.
ENGLAND, the THIRD day of
JANUARY, ONE THOUSAND NINE
HUNDRED AND EIGHTEEN.

Chaim-Weizmann.

Feisal ibn-Hussein.

RESERVATION BY THE EMIR FEISAL

If the Arabs are established as I have asked in my manifesto of January 4th addressed to the British Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, I will carry out what is written in this agreement. If changes are made, I cannot be answerable for failing to carry out this agreement.

Feisal ibn-Hussein

The Emir was later made king of Iraq, after the British resolved a contradicting treaty obligation on the status of Syria in favor of France.

The headline should be "Israel Steps on own Dick"

Oh yea the Arab countries will stop hating you right after you drop your pants...

The headline should be "Israel Steps on own Dick"

You're just jealous that they can find their own cocks without a magnifying glass and some forceps.

#8 | Posted by ZombieHunter

Damn ZombieHunter never had to use a magnifying glass and forceps mine is always in the way, in fact I had to switch to boxers because size does matter and now the damn thing keeps falling out the front hatch well never mind you wouldn't understand sorry dude...

Bibi did not agree to a Palestinian State. What he agreed to is a Palestinian Protectorate Satellite State of Israel. The Palestinians were smart to immediately say no...

We must boycott/divest from Israel like was done to S. Africa and demand statehood for Israel's indigenous population and a halt to the Israeli Apartheid System.

Conditional on no freedom to work, travel, trade, negotiate, or defend themselves. They must remain an unarmed proxy state within the armed state of Israel. That's because Palestinians are terrorists and Israel is God's chosen people.

Netanyahoo indeed.

silver-how could the non-existent (in 1918) state of Israel offer a treaty with anyone?

Don't you people read the Bible, Talmud? The Israelies are setting themselves up for destruction.
God gave Jerusalem to the Jews, not the arabs. How many times do you throw something back in God's face before he lets you take it in the short hairs?
Oh yeah, there will be a 7 year peace signed (hudna)
, then in 42 months it will be broken, iran with the backing of russia will attack the Israel, looking to take over their oil reserves.

netanyahu as john vorster.
i'd like to see abu mazen sell this as a 'step in the right direction'.

Hey look its tunde.

Fuckin' limey kraut.

Where have you been, scheisskopf?

Hopefully Barack threatened this Zionist pig into buckling to our desire

Now that the world sees "most" Iranians are level headed, Israel will need to come up with some other bullshit to remove the world focus from the fact that they are screwing the Palestinians and they have no intention of giving up any of the land they stole. Israel did their best to get us into a war with Iraq. Looks like it won't work with Iran

#18 | Posted by johnnj

What about the war in Afghanistan?

Was that served up by Israel too?

Or was that a war of necessity proclaimed by the liberals as ok?

"Now that the world sees "most" Iranians are level headed"

About 25 years ago I had a student who was Iranian; One of the brightest kids I've ever known.

He spoke of a tree-lined boulevard in Tehran where he wanted to "hang a mullah from every tree."

Bibi--didn't look enthused when giving this speech.

And it seemed to have endless conditions--that will never be fulfilled.

And last checked--losers of wars, lose something--in this case land.

He spoke of a tree-lined boulevard in Tehran where he wanted to "hang a mullah from every tree."

#20 | Posted by Zatoichi

He was a plant.

We went to war in Afghanistan because of 9/11. 9/11 happened at least in part due to our support of Israel who was kicking Palestinians out of their own country or treating them like animals.

"He was a plant."

Posted by MURPHY-the-stupid.

You are a plant; A rhododendron perhaps.

silver-how could the non-existent (in 1918) state of Israel offer a treaty with anyone?

Obviously, they couldn't have.

My original point was that the Palestinians have had several chances at peace and gaining their own state over the years. If one thinks those offers have been imperfect, fair enough, but it is simplistic to think they have simply been denied. The past and present politics of the region are very complex and the Arab side has made it's share of peace-killing blunders along with the Israelis.

My question in the original post is "what has to change?" I believe until both sides have leadership that is prepared to truly negotiate in good faith, resolving the problem is impossible. There are those on both sides who want only the total annihilation of the other and have shown themselves willing to include their fellows in that grisly work if necessary.

Assigning total blame to one side or the other for where we are now is a stance of ignorance and serves to further polarize the issue in ways that block resolution. A war for peace in the region would not going to solve the problem.

The solution must come diplomatically, if it ever is to come at all, with both parties squarely facing reality.

Silver-as I remember it, there was no "palestine" until 1967-it was all Jordan.

But you're right-it's going to take two parties willing to deal with reality.

I don't think we're there yet. Nuttyahoo wants a "pastrami" palestine-cut into sections by Israeli settlements and access roads and I doubt the palestinians want to not have Israel to blame for any of their problems.

The Palestinians were offered a state when the nation of Israel was created.

They preferred war.

What has to change?

#1 | Posted by silver_ironist

If your land is "annexed" by someone else, your ancestral lands stolen, your resources either appropriated or outright destroyed, and you are "offered" a "home" on some reservation in the wilderness, what are you going to do?

What has to change? Quit stealing somebody else's land at the point of a gun.

The Israelis who occupied the created State of Israel had no claim to the land: the vast majority came from elsewhere.

the arabs will not agree to anythin less than the complete surrender of isreal without conditions-the don't want peace they want control
jasman

the arabs will not agree to anythin less than the complete surrender of isreal without conditions-the don't want peace they want control OF THEIR OWN STATE AND LIVES.
jasman

There I fixed that for you...

"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for the first time agreed to a Palestinian state"

Now if only the Palestinians would agree.

"We welcome change and openness; for we believe that freedom and security go together, that the advance of human liberty can only strengthen the cause of world peace. There is one sign the Soviets can make that would be unmistakable, that would advance dramatically the cause of freedom and peace. General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization, come here to this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"

June 12, 1987, President Ronald Reagan

Don't worry Palestinians never agree to anything but their own destruction. Give them what they want. Push them out of the West Bank and Gaza.

If your land is "annexed" by someone else, your ancestral lands stolen, your resources either appropriated or outright destroyed, and you are "offered" a "home" on some reservation in the wilderness, what are you going to do?

What has to change? Quit stealing somebody else's land at the point of a gun.

The Israelis who occupied the created State of Israel had no claim to the land: the vast majority came from elsewhere.

#27 | Posted by ZOT

Whatcha' wanna bet ZOT's land is also stolen land?

Hey ZOT, if the original owners of your land made a claim to it, would you give it back?

Come on, show us the way ZOT. Give your land back! Otherwise, spare us the hypocritical indignation!

#14 | POSTED BY RIGHTNUT
"Don't you people read the Bible, Talmud?
God gave Jerusalem to the Jews, not the arabs."

I don't think we can apply that here, though. It was fine in the 11th century BC, and was written by Israelites for the Israelites.

Saying "We're God's Chosen People" doesn't cut it. Same with "God's on our side", "God gave it to us", "God wills it", etc., all variations on the same theme. Works great for the people who are saying it, but that's about it.

Okay for the Israelis to cling to that, but if that's their argument, it's not going to work.

I hear he is offering the parking garage between the CVS and Temple Mount. Next to the alley for al-habib hair stylist and Hafa's Falaffels.

LM

Paletsinians are a smelly, monkey like creature. They will manage to destroy anything good that comes their way because they are a simple people.

"Hey ZOT, if the original owners of your land made a claim to it, would you give it back?"

Just curious here, I think the means of acquiring said land is most important. Most Native Americans are the only persons wh have SOME legitimate gripes. A good protion of their land was taken or stolen. Any that was bought or traded legally is a different story, regardless if it was for beads or something in today's society that is considered worthless. I have some mexican friends that I argue with when they ay they are taking back the south. Not that they aren't doing it they are. Just google the most popular white page searches in Texas, over half are latino names. Many try to say the south was stolen, I remind them Mexico sold it. They thought they had a good deal and now they want to renig, and I call them out for the BS.

LM

He sealed the fate of his political position and Israel. I can't believe a country like Israel that is so caught up in religious history are so niave as to the scripture that chronicles their past, present and future. What part of God's words don't they understand? When God blesses you as a nation, you don't throw sand in his face. The Israelis need to learn from America, we threw God out of the country, and God cursed us with obama. By the way, how is that hope and change working for you? The only people satisfied with obama's performance that come to this thread, want to see America destroyed.

I have some mexican friends that I argue with when they ay they are taking back the south. Not that they aren't doing it they are. Just google the most popular white page searches in Texas, over half are latino names. Many try to say the south was stolen, I remind them Mexico sold it. They thought they had a good deal and now they want to renig, and I call them out for the BS.

LM

God for you - I'm sick of hearing that BS myself. I'm a Texan in AZ - but I've heard it living here mostly. I remind people of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo - most of them have no clue what that means.

Prolix247
now go fix it with hamas and hezzabola--the palistinaians were offered their own state in 1948 and have rejected isreals right to exist since then
-the people of palistine probably would accept any agreement that would give them their own land -but other arab states control the politics of the palistinain leaders and are opposed to any accomodation with isreal-land for peace has only brought war closer to isreal
jasman

ZOT
the majority of jews in isreal in 1948 were jews from arab lands not europe
jasman

I am the rare Jew...perhaps the only Jew in existence, who believes neither Israel nor Palestine should have Jerusalem, but rather, considering that most major faiths feel attachment to that city, it be an international city like the Vatican unto itself.

kanrei
what you say is logical but all faiths in region believe the presence of their enemies defile their holy places
jasman

Then it is time for all faiths to realize that a G-d as powerful as they claim would take care of it on his own if it was that big of a deal to Him. It appears He has no issues with the land being shared.

well it's funnie none of these faiths want to acknowledge it's the same God their talkin bout
jasman

-I am the rare Jew

I like my Jews medium well....

Bad Corky!!

I like my Jews medium well....

Must not be German then, they like their's well done...almost burnt.

Bad, bad Kanrei...Thank G-d there is no Hell.

I like my Jews medium well....
#46 | Posted by Corky

"bad" may be the understatement of the day.

shaking my head at you, cork (apparently channeling 101chairborne)

Thank G-d there is no Hell.

Posted by kanrei at 2009-06-17 11:00 AM | Reply FLAG- Never read a post by Johnson

FLAG- Never read a post by Johnson

#49 | Posted by Corky at 2009-06-17 11:02 AM |

Does anyone or am I the only one left here that looks to see who said something before reading what they said? It helps me avoid those pesky BoOB and Jeffin posts.

With Johnson you only have to read one, then you know what every other will say.

Does anyone or am I the only one left here that looks to see who said something before reading what they said? It helps me avoid those pesky BoOB and Jeffin posts.
#50 | Posted by kanrei

I can spot a Johnson post, an afkabibble post and others without reading a single word. I can stand across the room and identify them just by the esthetic look of it.

- just by the esthetic look of it.

Or the smell.

"Or the smell."

You gotta give them credit for being able to get their posts to eminate an odor through a computer monitor.