Prediction: This man of principle will be honored for many decades to come. Driving the anti-choice crowd nuts.

Even Hitler, mass murderer, and Stalin, mass murderer, and Mao Tse Tung, mass murderer, have their devotees.

Why should anyone be concerned that this serial killer of innocents is not universally reviled? It's the coda. Tiller the Killer's termination of the lives of innocents has been interdicted so now he is one with eternity, and so is not able any longer to ply his trade, to kill and kill again.

Frankly Modern8, I don't give a tinker's dam what people say now that his depredations have been stopped.

Even Hitler, mass murderer, and Stalin, mass murderer, and Mao Tse Tung, mass murderer, have their devotees.

Why should anyone be concerned that this serial killer of innocents is not universally reviled? It's the coda. Tiller the Killer's termination of the lives of innocents has been interdicted so now he is one with eternity, and so is not able any longer to ply his trade, to kill and kill again.

Frankly Modern8, I don't give a tinker's dam what people say now that his depredations have been stopped.

#2 | Posted by Johnson

Here's hoping your first few met Tiller.

And for the record, I love how everyone blame's Tiller as its his fault. What about the women that physically went there and asked for it. They are more guilty than that man.

Oh well Johnson, I bet you hate gays and see Marriage as sacred and have had a divorce as well. It's usually pretty typical.

#1 | Posted by moder8

Prediction, most people will have forgotten his name in 1 week.

#4

Who?

#3 | Posted by greeneyedguy

I love how you "progressives" resort to calling people names and accusing them of things when you do not agree with their position.

I love how you "progressives" resort to calling people names and accusing them of things when you do not agree with their position.

#6 | Posted by chickenrancher

I know, stereotypes are a bitch aren't they farm boy?

the party of hate, fear and bigotry. and they wonder why they are shrinking

#8 | Posted by Georgeisadrunk

You are obviously not old enough to have lived through and experienced political cycles.

BTW I am a registered dem and have been for longer than you have been alive I would think.

#7 | Posted by greeneyedguy

AAAAAWWWWWWW that hurt.

Driving the anti-choice crowd nuts.#1 | Posted by moder8 at 2009-06-06 09:11 PM | Reply

We can drive our OWN nuts, thank you very much.

again, there you go with your "thinking" and your assumptions. more hate. Have you ever understood the legal system or have you become confused with your advancing years? Is english your second language? Be Careful with your statements, as It would appear that you don't think well at all

#12 | Posted by Georgeisadrunk

Another progressive tactic. I love it.

Here's hoping your first few met Tiller.And for the record, I love how everyone blame's Tiller as its his fault. What about the women that physically went there and asked for it. They are more guilty than that man.Oh well Johnson, I bet you hate gays and see Marriage as sacred and have had a divorce as well. It's usually pretty typical.#3 | Posted by greeneyedguy at 2009-06-07 09:45 AM | Reply |

Wow, openly advocating the murder of Johnson's children--bet you win the "debate" with speech like that!

Who hurt you, greeneye?
Will you show me on this doll?

Dr. Tiller - to the consternation of Johnson, Kirk, the chicken and other uglies - will join the growing roster of martyrs to women's rights murdered by "pro-lifers." This includes Dr. Slepian and a 72-year-old former air force lifer named Joe who died in Florida while escorting women past the harassment of Johnson, Kirk and the chicken. Another healer will be along shortly to risk his life for reproductive rights. herm

now now Kirk everyone knows republicans/conservatives are the ones with daddy issues...that's why you are all closest gays.

"martyrs to women's rights"

Now that is some funny shit.

Who hurt you, greeneye?
Will you show me on this doll?

#14 | Posted by kirk at 2009-06-07 10:18 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: Funny

That was good! :)

closet.

"and other uglies"

#15 | Posted by herm

I disagree with your point of view so I will call you names.

I love progressives.........

BABY BUTCHER BURIED

Chicken,

Yep Herm actualy had a point but then he had to go there. Oh well.

I disagree with your point of view so I will call you names.

I love progressives.........

#20 | Posted by chickenrancher

So do you have to crank that old record player? Or did you finally upgrade to electric gramps?

"I disagree with your point of view so I will call you names."

If you endorse the premeditated murder of a physician as he ushers in a house of worship, you are indeed an "ugly" and qualify for any name I might call. Don't you prefer "stupid"? herm

Dr. Tiller ... will join the growing roster of martyrs to women's rights murdered by "pro-lifers." This includes Dr. Slepian and a 72-year-old former air force lifer named Joe who died in Florida while escorting women past the harassment of Johnson, Kirk and the chicken.

Indeed. One of the reasons a majority of this country supports abortion rights is because of the campaign of terrorism waged against doctors and patients.

Yeah! Us republicans won't stand for a murderer of fetuses!
Now if you want to kill them later with all our guns, death penalties, invading their country and killing 100,000 innocent civilians well that's actually encouraged! What would Jesus do??

He was murdered by a terrorist. Inside a church, no less. Why do they hate our freedoms? I don't feel like Satan, but I am to them. Why do they hate America?

Maybe you can answer this for me, Johnson. You seem to be their Bin-Laden. Their advocate.

Only 100,000?

Anyway, what I find funny is when any of the vociferous rightwingers here criticizes someone for ad hominem argument or simple name-calling. There are very, very few here (probably including me) who haven't slipped into such behavior at least once, and there are a huge number, on both sides of the aisle, who do it all the time (nearly every time they post).

So until you cut that behavior out, you're not allowed to call "shenanigans" on someone else. (A reference there to a fine, if uneven and often tasteless, show created by a couple of libertarians.)

God owns heaven and God alone will decide who gets in and who stays out....

This is not for Tiller nor his supporters or detractors to decide.

******************************
***************

Three surprises in heaven:

1. To find yourself there.

2. To find those you do not expect to be in heaven in heaven.

3. To find those you expect to be in heaven not in heaven.

******************************
***********

Where is Tiller? --- your theology will influence your guess.

One misanthrope in the grave, another misanthrope arrested for his murder...I feel good somehow even though I hate the fact someone murdered to make a point.

HELL
NOUN
The abode of condemned souls and devils in some religions; the place of eternal punishment for the wicked after death, presided over by Satan.

Example: Spending eternity listening to Takitez

God owns heaven and God alone will decide who gets in and who stays out....

This is not for Tiller nor his supporters or detractors to decide.

******************************
***************
#29 | Posted by takitez at 2009-06-07 11:32 AM

And believe me...GOD has abortion under his complete control. And the soul of a person he decides gets to this earth...gets to this earth...regardless of the insignificant body they occupy that will rot away to nothing with worms crawling thru it when they die.

I can't believe the simplicity and ignorant thinking of people who proclaim a belief in an all powerful GOD...but by their words and actions proclaim this same GOD powerless against abortion.

How GOD deals ultimately with people who decide to have abortions is totally GOD's business.

" My ways are not ways...and my ways are not your ways"

#24 | Posted by herm

Nice try

"Even Hitler, mass murderer, and Stalin, mass murderer, and Mao Tse Tung, mass murderer, have their devotees."

Holy crap, Batman!

Me and Johnson agree on something.

Abortion on demand has opened the door to so many other problems.

It has contributed to men and women being less responsible with their reproductivity.

I'm as right-wing as it gets, and I detest the work
Tiller has done. However, murdering the man is evil,
and protesting at the man's funeral is low-life.

Unfortunately, Obama is right on abortion: The debate rages on.

The folks that advocate killing persons like Tiller
need to be watched closely by Homeland Security. The
persons that kill persons like Tiller should get the
death penalty for their evil deed and stop hiding
behind Jesus like a wannabe Taliban.

How GOD deals ultimately with people who decide to have abortions is totally GOD's business.

Ahhh,The Divine Plan.

Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine.

Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn't in God's Divine Plan?

What do you want Him to do? Change His plan?

Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a Divine Plan.

What's the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and fuck up Your Plan?

One misanthrope in the grave, another misanthrope arrested for his murder...I feel good ...

Doesn't saying you feel good about this make you ... a misanthrope?

This issue is where I make a clean break from the Libbies, and actually completely agree (for once) with Johnson #2. As for the women aborting their babies, yes, both parties are some evil fuckers--the "women" who do this and this Dr. Mengela who sucked out the brains of 3rd Trimester babies. Tiller is exactly where he belongs--6 feet under. Why not just let mothers kill their babies up to a year after birth? Where does the "choice" become murder? Any sane person can logically conclude that killing late-term, unborn children (and they ARE children), is a sick, sick business, and those who support Tiller above in this thread, are some really sick pups.

#32... you failed to factor in the free-will of man.

God does not always interfere with how human behaves, but God reveals His will and exhorts us to obey --- willingly.

Either you say to God 'thy will be done', or God says to you 'thy will be done' and let you go on in destruction and judgment.

Yes, God's ways are higher than our ways; hence it is better to submit to God in obedience and say "Thy will be done."

"...some evil fuckers--the "women" who do this..."

And what penalty would you proscribe for those evil fuckers?

Also, at what point does it become "a child"?

I miss the constant stories about the Palin's. At least they were funny. I can't think of a better thing to say here except this is beating a dead horse.

Danforth,

I do believe in cases that the baby will certainly die, and the mother's life is also in jeopardy, but that is common sense. Sadly, these minority cases are used to justify all instances of abortion.

As for penalty for "evil fuckers", the laws a joke. Women have the opportunity to end a child's life based on convenience, perfectly within Roe vs. Wade, as it's not yet a real human being in this case. Yet, there is legal precedence, as you know, where criminals have attacked pregnant women where the unborn baby dies, and the criminal chas been charged with murder. So, mysteriously, the unborn is all-of-the-sudden a a bona-fide being. All depends on who does the killing--obvious hypocrisy for anybody with a shred of common sense.

On your second question, I am not taking your bait, sorry. Do your own research on the viability and awareness level of 3rd trimester children, the research is out there. In 1982, my sister got pregnant by her boyfriend when she was 18, and the father's parents pressured my sister for an abortion. The appointment was set, and my mother, talked my sister out of taking the child's life. My mother promised to support my sister and her baby, and she followed through. Now, my neice, is a beautiful, young woman who is now a registered nurse with a new family of her own. Case closed.

"As for penalty for "evil fuckers", the laws a joke."

That's why I asked: what punishment would YOU mete? I mean, if it's "murder", shouldn't these women be put to death?

"On your second question, I am not taking your bait, sorry. Do your own research on the viability and awareness level of 3rd trimester children, the research is out there."

So you're all right with earlier abortions?

"Case closed."

Of course. One anecdotal story should be all it takes. Though I'm guessing if she had turned into a serial killer, that wouldn't have changed your position.

Danforth,

You didn't get your fill of abortion from me last night?

Sigh...

#43 | Posted by Danforth

What punishment I would METE is irrelevant, I am not the law, and I am not going to concur with your asanine assumption above regarding capital punishment. Laws are different between countries, and in the US, and vary from state to state. Are the laws right? For me, this is also a moral issue, and I err on the side of not killing children whenever possible, a stance I am sure puts me on the high ground, as much as it may burn your ass.

And regarding being on the high ground, I knew a wonderful lady at my workplace, although she went back home to N. Carolina last year. She confided in me once and told me that she was raped many years ago, and decided not to abort the baby. She carried the baby to term, and gave it up for adoption. Now, I would certainly have a hard time arguing with a female that would opt for abortion when raped. Which is my a told her what a great person she was. She said she didn't see why the baby should pay with its life for the crime of the rapist. Her words, not mine.

As far as when a human life begins, that is a subject of endless debate as you should know. Is a sperm or egg a person? Zygote, embryo? But then again, this thread is about 3rd Trimester abortion, which is a far cry from a zygote. It is possible for a little more clarity in this range of the unborn child's development, ya think?

Earlier abortions? Let's just say I err on the side of life. I don't see human beings in the womb as lumps of meat for 9 months until they magically become humans once they are born. The scientific reality is that once the crossing over of the genetic material happens, the die are cast, and the blueprint for a complete human being is determined. Eye color, intelligence, height, general personality, etc. You set your bar whereever you want.

Gernally, how willing society is to trash their unborn, is a reflection of that society as a whole. And from the USA, as the murder, rape, catholic priest child-molesting capital of the world, why would I expect anything else other than carte blanche abortionists?

As far as the so-called anecdotal comment, I already said I agree in some obvious, common sense cases where the child is terminally ill, and carrying to term endangers the mother. You know where I stand, yet cherry pick my comments to be argumentative.

Funny though, all you can do is criticize my beliefs. What do you think on this subject? Don't even dare, do ya'?

The New Yawker invents a number of variables - what stage is the pregnancy in, how serious are the reasons for not carrying to term, the threat to the woman?

All require some sort of judge, as most areas are too gray for a clear reply. All require judges. And who would judge? The New Yawker, of course. N.Y, the case is NEVER closed. herm

People who tend to view moral issue as black and white tend to be wrong. Gradations of what is moral and immoral are omnipresent. There is a slippery slope consisting of minor differences in factual scenarios which can lead a person to deem the exact same behavior under comparable circumstances to be right or wrong. (For example, murder is wrong. But many believe in retrospect that the murder of Adolph Hitler in 1933 arguably would have been good.)

The point is, the cold blooded murder of another human being at church is so far off the "wrong" side of any moral compass, that the notion certain rightwingers can deem Tiller's death to be acceptable or even a "good" thing is really mindblowing. In fact, it is horrifying.

do not ever be horrified. the recent history of the world has shown you many acts by humans that are horrifying. additionally, most of them are done in the name of god. these nut-balls live in a fantasy world with rules and words that they make up. their justification comes from the fact that they alone have been shown the way and the rest of society is ignorant

Apparently, Johnson supports domestic terrorism, as long as it is a means to the end of his shortsighted, narrow-minded ideology.

Fuck. Gotta "Godwin" this thread after the second post. Time to put this thread out of its misery.

Herm, which variables did I invent? Where did I declare myself the judge? I stated my opinions, which I believe I provided the rationale for my opinions in relevant detail. Could it be that you cannot refute my comments with an intelligent rebuttal, so thus resort to moronic generalizations that have little relevance to my posts?

Moder8, do you reserve any of your horror for the babies that had their brains vacuumed out of their skulls, or do you only maintain that level of empathy for the guy holding the vacuum cleaner?

NewYawker: The medical necessity of late term is a tragedy. It is a cause for sadness, not horror. Horror is reserved for those who willfully engaged in cruel behavior. Such as premeditated murder in a church.
It takes a person of tremendous compassion and love to have the courage to medically assist women who are medically at risk, even under the most emotionally painful of circumstances such as exist during a late term abortion. Dr. Tiller is a hero. If there is a Heaven, no doubt he is in the company of the angels.

NY, reread my the first two lines of my post. The variables you invent: How serious is the threat to health? How late along is the female? Sixth month? Seven on a scale of 1-10? Since you propose no answer, you surely (???) propose judging each case on its merits. Since you do not say how these judges would be chosen, I presume you see yourself on that bench. You apparently cannot refute my intelligent rebuttal with your moronic generalizations. Your turn. herm

Herm,

What about a test for brain function? If the baby has brain function then, unless the mother will die carrying to term, there should be no abortion.

You want a definition how's that. I personally don't agree with it but I could live with it since my disagreement is mostly emotional.

Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn't in God's Divine Plan?

What do you want Him to do? Change His plan?

Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a Divine Plan.

What's the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and fuck up Your Plan?

#36 | Posted by Ron_Karate at 2009-06-07 12:03 PM

The end is already known.... The numbers of hairs on your head is known...Everything in life is already known and predestined.

GOD isn't changing a thing or deviating an inch.

#32... you failed to factor in the free-will of man.

#39 | Posted by takitez at 2009-06-07

You missed my point....answer my question.

Can mortal man deny a soul GOD intend to be on this earth from being on this earth thru the simple act of abortion?

The end is already known.... The numbers of hairs on your head is known...Everything in life is already known and predestined.

Ah, yes, one of the "it is written" crowd.

How do you tell if you have free will or if everything is predetermined? You must agree that people certainly seem to have the illusion of free will in this existence - otherwise we would not have this debate. If you believe in predestination, then every apparently "freely chosen" action inevitably leads us toward one fate. If you believe in free will, then the apparent control you have over your own destiny is real. Either way, you have no way of putting your belief to the test - it's a useless argument to get yourself hung up on.

If you're going to say that god's will is absolute, then who are you to say that it doesnt permit free will (instead of being some single inflexible series of events).

This is a useless argument. Live your life how you want. There's nothing you can do to change the mind of someone who has already come to a conclusion regarding this issue. I don't really care about it, personally... except when people are so sure they have all the answers.

"I can't believe the simplicity and ignorant thinking of people who proclaim a belief in an all powerful GOD...but by their words and actions proclaim this same GOD powerless against abortion.
How GOD deals ultimately with people who decide to have abortions is totally GOD's business."

True, USAtrueblue. I don't know what your abortion stance is, but I am totally against it. That said, I posted the same opinion as yours right after Tiller was murdered.
God, if we believe Him to be all-powerful, omniscient and merciful, does not need our help correcting problems through sinful means. It would be just like the bloody, psychopathic John Brown abolitionist murders or the bombing for peace of the 1960's. Although I believe Tiller was a murderer, I also believe his killer is no better.

The end is known but the question is...was it also known.

You are to live your live striving for obedience to GOD's will. Free Will.... no question...you have all you want.

But make no mistake about it....the end is already known

You are to live your live striving for obedience to GOD's will.

Which God(s)?

"Murder" is a legal term with various gradations defined differently in varying jurisdictions. It has specific definitions and there are often varying "degrees" of murder with varying culpability in terms of punishment. Matters in aggravation and mitigation are also considered.

Often "murder" is referred to as "homicide" in the codes.

Killing is not necessarily murder or homicide.

Killing is not necessarily murder or homicide.

KInda dampens your abortion argument

I personally do not like the "Tiller the Killer" handle even though I totally opposed this creep.
Tiller's fault was intellectual: he rationalized his way to deciding life and death. If those subjects are not dictated by some extra-legal ethos, society erodes. Before the anti-Christians start their "whose ethos" rant, all you need do is go back through the 20th Century and see what happened in Europe and Russia and China and Japan. The rationalistic secular governments all decided they determined morality.
Whose ethos? It has to be someone's or we are in trouble.

Killing is not necessarily murder or homicide.

#60 | Posted by Johnson at 2009-06-07 11:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

The shorter Johnson: He deserved it.

"Tiller's fault was intellectual: he rationalized his way to deciding life and death."

Tiller's "fault" was that he performed legal abortions that no one else would for fear of being murdered by crazed zealots.

You tell me what a woman in compromised health with a 21-week fetus that has only a brain stem is to do?

Betel's fault is intellectual: he rationalizes that legal means moral.

And again, Betelg: some ethos MUST stand above secular law or anything will be permitted.

"Funny though, all you can do is criticize my beliefs."

I didn't criticize your beliefs. I mocked your use of one life as a "case closed" for the issue.

"What do you think on this subject? Don't even dare, do ya'?"

Of course I do.

I wish abortion were safe, legal, and never necessary. I think we should be ashamed at our embrace of religious dogma over science when teaching our kids about birth control. And I don't believe the government should have the final say over someone else's body, women included. Regarding the other, bigger issues, it's a legal morass: one side will be upset if life is determined to begin any time other than conception, and the other side will correctly point out police could then investigate not just miscarriages, but menstrual periods as well. The other is: if it's "murder", what's the penalty?

A good way of settling the issue is for people who oppose abortions not to have them. And everyone else can make up their own minds. Respect each us other, and leave each other alone.

"I wish abortion were safe, legal, and never necessary. I think we should be ashamed at our embrace of religious dogma over science when teaching our kids about birth control."

I am curious, Danforth. Then how do you feel about the children of those parents who disagree with science-over-religion beliefs ideas being force-fed to their children in public schools? Is there only one side allowed in public schools?
As strongly as you abhor religion over science, they abhor science over religion. What gives you the right to impose YOUR moral views?
(Caps ain't yelling, Danforth. Just a little sarcasm)

As strongly as you abhor religion over science, they abhor science over religion. What gives you the right to impose YOUR moral views?

It is written in the stars that Danforth shall be the final arbitrator of what is right and wrong. To suggest otherwise is a sacrilege of the highest order.

Gimme, Danforth is okay. Don't elbow him.

A good way of settling the issue is for people who oppose abortions not to have them. And everyone else can make up their own minds. Respect each us other, and leave each other alone.

#68 | Posted by moder8
I like to drive fast. If you don't like to drive fast please don't but do not restrict my right to travel at speeds I am comfortable with.

"I like to drive fast. If you don't like to drive fast please don't but do not restrict my right to travel at speeds I am comfortable with."

And as soon as your abortion puts my life at risk, you'll have a point.

Meanwhile soldier William Long, killed by a terrorist last week, was laid to rest yesterday without fanfair from the MSM.

God Bless those who serve.

Religion is not science. Science is an academic discipline. You can teach _about_ religion in school, but where would that go? Are you seriously suggesting that students should be able to opt out of science? What's the argument here?

Tiller was included in Geeorge Stpeonallofus's "In Memorium" yesterday. I promptly deposited bacon and eggs on the livingroom carpet.

Why did you lack the courage to kill him yourself, WisGod?

Why did you lack the courage to kill him yourself, WisGod?

#77 | Posted by BetelG

Damn early to be shit faced, isn't it Boyd?

WisGod-
You lack the courage of your convictions, WisGod.

"What about a test for brain function? You want a definition how's that."

Tao will tell us what brain function is, how strong the readings from an in utero electroencephalogram must be. Better not to start setting minimums, Tao. That's what the cliche "slippery slope" is all about. herm

"Religion is not science. Science is an academic discipline. You can teach _about_ religion in school, but where would that go? Are you seriously suggesting that students should be able to opt out of science? What's the argument here?"

I wrote no such thing. I was only replying to the assertion made above that somehow science trumps parental notions of morality when it comes to education. And I don't believe in teaching religion in public schools.

And as soon as your abortion puts my life at risk, you'll have a point.

#73 | Posted by Danforth
And as soon as the unborn child gets a say in their outcome, your's will too.

HERM talking about brain function is akin to the Buffalo Bill's talking about how to win a superbowl. If brain function would be a criteria for determination of when life begins, there sure are a lot of non-living libruls out there.

"And as soon as the unborn child gets a say in their outcome, your's will too."

I'll take three apples and two oranges, please.

Your analogy sucked: your speeding has a direct effect on me on the highway. Your abortion doesn't.

your speeding has a direct effect on me on the highway. Your abortion doesn't.

not if you are home blogging all day.

:-(

Funny, Eberly.

Do you mean to suggest there are no speed limits on the information superhighway? (Bad joke. My apologies.)

Your analogy sucked: your speeding has a direct effect on me on the highway. Your abortion doesn't.

#83 | Posted by Danforth

Ditto on yours - as soon as your abortion has no effect on an unborn child it will be a valid argument - I believe that was what your defense was - that an abortion hurts no one? Culture of death - keep on truckin Danny boy.

At least his family is very wealthy from all his blood money, Hope they enjoy it in whatever health it might buy.

Why are we talking about this?

Do you morons know that Obama came out and said the economy is not turning around? His idea is not working!!!!

"...as soon as your abortion has no effect on an unborn child it will be a valid argument "

Ho-hum, Cidney. Once more, read my lips: no such thing as an "unborn child." herm

"Why are we talking about this?"

'Cause this is the thread... moron. If you want to talk about the economy and Obama's comment, post an article/start a thread.

Yeesh.