I find it hard to believe this could be a clerical error, but I have been wrong before. Of course, I have never had to deal with payroll taxes for a presidential campaign either.

Tax cheat extraordinaire Timmy Geithner will be in charge of this to make sure everything is above board lol lol what a joke...

He needs to have Terry write a check and pay the bill. Douche.

HA HA!

How do you miss that much?

Oh--ask Thimmy--he's the expert on Turbo Tax--scratch that....

If they already re-submitted the forms with any sort of proof that they were timely filed, and there are no other discrepancies, the IRS would have no basis for their lien. Which means the Kerry camp is full of shit.

"If they already re-submitted the forms with any sort of proof that they were timely filed, and there are no other discrepancies, the IRS would have no basis for their lien."

That's never stopped them before.

That's never stopped them before.

#6 | Posted by Danforth

I fought with the IRS for months, a few years ago, over deductions for rental property. Even though I sat in front of them and literally pointed to the exact section of their own regulations that supported my argument, it took six months and a ton of Excedrine and Pepto before they finally conceded they made an error and I didn't owe them any money.

"That's never stopped them before."

No, but you can then appeal the filing of the lien if it was based on IRS error or if you actually did pay the taxes they say you owe. The article doesn't make it sound as though Kerry's people are being too aggressive in that regard.

"No, but you can then appeal the filing of the lien if it was based on IRS error or if you actually did pay the taxes they say you owe."

Yup. And if they lose or misplace it, guess who's fault that is, legally....

Yours, if you didn't send $800,000 worth of payroll tax forms via certified mail.

"Yours, if you didn't send $800,000 worth of payroll tax forms via certified mail"

No. Yours, regardless.

Joe has a point - we ALWAYS make a copy of whatever we are sending to the IRS and make a copy of the certified mail receipt. If the IRS claims they never received anything then you flip the copy of the documents, the copy of the certified mail receipt, and the actual card which was returned to you. It's your duty to rebut the IRS's presumption, but with the right documentation it is entirely possible.

"No. Yours, regardless."

Right. But even if you did file and pay on time (thus it isn't really your "fault"), it's still your fault for not keeping proper mailing documentation.

"But even if you did file and pay on time (thus it isn't really your "fault"), it's still your fault for not keeping proper mailing documentation."

But that wasn't my scenario. The IRS losing paper -like an appeal, was. And anytime the IRS loses paper, it's legally the fault of the taxpayer.

Unless you can prove they lost it, which any competent tax professional should be able to do.

And anytime the IRS loses paper, it's legally the fault of the taxpayer.

If you give me a taxpayer who has a copy of the form in question, a cancelled check showing payment in connection with the form in question, a copy of the certified mail receipt, and a copy of the returned certified mail card, I will guarantee you I can get that taxpayer out of any problems with the IRS if their argument is they never received the form/payment.

Danforth knows that. He's not an idiot. He just plays one on the internet.

"Unless you can prove they lost it, which any competent tax professional should be able to do."

No, even if you can prove they lost it, you still have to produce the proof of the payment/filing/deduction, etc or file the paperwork again. And even if you're talking about mailing certified, or via a trackable mailing system, the IRS sometimes loses/misplaces individual pages, or sets of them. Once I sent 200 pages; they lost 50. And they couldn't tell me which 50, so I had to prep the entire 200 again. They even admitted they had lost pages. It didn't matter, it's still --legally -- the taxpayer's responsibility to provide proof as many times as the IRS wants.

Regarding this instance, they should have filed everything certified and they should have the cancelled checks. No excuses. They should also be able to produce copies of the returns they claim they filed upon demand.

"If you give me a taxpayer who has a copy of the form in question, a cancelled check showing payment in connection with the form in question, a copy of the certified mail receipt, and a copy of the returned certified mail card, I will guarantee you I can get that taxpayer out of any problems with the IRS if their argument is they never received the form/payment."

Absolutely.

But if you mailed that certified, and they claim they didn't get the copy of the form in question, that's your fault...legally.

Danforth knows that. He's not an idiot. He just plays one on the internet."

Still smarting, eh?

Everyone here has agreed that if the IRS loses your return, it's on you to show it was timely filed and that all taxes were timely paid. Why you continue to quote people and say "no, its your fault if they lose your stuff" is a mystery. Nobody is disagreeing with you.

Why you continue to quote people and say "no, its your fault if they lose your stuff" is a mystery. Nobody is disagreeing with you.

#21 | Posted by JOE

Trick legalese question Joe? I think you already answered it:

Danforth knows that. He's not an idiot. He just plays one on the internet.

#17 | Posted by JOE

I wouldn't be so generous about the "plays" part but I guess you're just trying to be a nice guy

The entire premise of our legal system is that one of presumed innocence. However, when it comes to the IRS, one is presumed guilty and must prove their innocence.

Danforth knows that. He's not an idiot. He just plays one on the internet.

#17 | Posted by JOE at 2009-06-04 05:46 PM | Reply

Whereas Joe, on the other hand, plays a lawyer.