CAFE is the biggest bunch of political bullshit we're ever going to see.

Please note that this article is VERY complimentary of Jimmy Carter - in his memoirs, Ronald Reagan lamented that Carter never got the credit he deserved for his de-regulatory efforts.

I still remember Jimmy being attacked by bunny rabits...

I still remember Jimmy being attacked by bunny rabits...
#2 | Posted by ATaxpayer

Then your memory of that event is on a par with the level of awareness of reality your posts regularly reflect on the DR. "Rabits" [sic]? Check again.

Hey DOC wikipedia must be part of this lie as well they even have fake pictures and everything...

If Obama Had Carter's Courage

Oh the incongruity of it all

I still remember Jimmy being attacked by bunny rabits [sic] [that would be multiple rabbits]...
#2 | Posted by ATaxpayer

Then your memory of that event is on a par with the level of awareness of reality your posts regularly reflect on the DR. "Rabits" [sic] [multiple rabbits]? Check again.
#3 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

when the rabbit [that would be singular, one rabbit]...
#4 | Posted by ATaxpayer

Like I said, your memory of the event is on a part with the level of awareness of reality your posts regularly reflect on the DR. But why be concerned if it was one rabbit or multiple rabbits? Why bother with facts? Game, set, match.

I still remember Jimmy being attacked by bunny rabits...

#2 | Posted by ATaxpayer

I remember that too. I guess doc was trying to read the paper in his own hip pocket that week.

I remember King Arthur being attacked by a bunny rabbit.

I remember King Arthur being attacked by a bunny rabbit.

#9 | Posted by Scrumplet

What a man! There wasn't a king arthur.

After 4 years there was not a President Carter, either and the next Dem was 12 years away.
If Obama keeps the spending up, prints money etc. we willl see the same.

Naivete can function as bravery. You can't succumb to fear over consequences you are unable to forsee . In Carter's case, I think he was more often naive than brave.

True, Sully. But I had to go through 12 years of Republican Presidents after Carter and, naive or courageous, he screwed us up.
This president is doing the same economic damage Carter did and I don't want a repeat. He's fine all other ways, but the economic stuff will bite us.

It might be helpful to remember why Carter wasn't reelected and it wasn't because of the inflation or the economic problems. It was the hostage crisis which ended after the inauguration due to negotiations conducted illegally by Reagan administration officials before Reagan was president. Reagan continued Carter's economic policies including keeping Paul Volker on as Chairman of the Fed and he is the one that held interest rates very high causing a recession but also diminishing the inflation.

... negotiations conducted illegally by Reagan administration officials before Reagan was president.

*GROAN* Not that unsubstantiated rumor again . . .

It is not that unsubstantiated...there is enough circumstantial evidence to at least entertain the thought. Wiki ( a questionable source I admit) says "On January 20, 1981, minutes after Reagan was sworn in as President, the American hostages were released by Iran into U.S. custody, having spent 444 days in captivity." It is the same evidence to support Clinton attacking Afghanistan to try and dominate the news cycle before the Impeachment became news which I also happen to believe.

More from Wiki ( a questionable source I admit):

The main cause for suspicion was the seeming coincidence of his inauguration and the hostages' release six minutes after Reagan was sworn into office on January 20, 1981, as well as the Reagan administration's later decision to provide arms to the anti-U.S. Iranian government, allegedly in return for delaying the release of the hostages, rather than for freeing them.[71]

"It might be helpful to remember why Carter wasn't reelected and it wasn't because of the inflation or the economic problems."

LOL. You've never heard the cliche "Its the economy, Stupid!" The economy is exactly why people didn't like Carter. Getting whipped by a bunch of Iranian students or duped by obvious crooks like Castro (the boat lift) hurt his reputation but didn't upset people as much as seeing their standard of living go down.

He's vying for a second term, by playing to the right.It will fail as long as he continues Shrub's bailout bullshit. If he doesn't see that within the first year, there will be no recovery.

"This president is doing the same economic damage Carter did and I don't want a repeat. He's fine all other ways, but the economic stuff will bite us."

I agree. He had my vote until the economy tanked and it turned out he was for bailing out failures. The stimulus package was even worse.

We very badly need for the voting public to open their minds to the possiblity that we may achieve better results by voting outside the two corrupt parties that got us where we are.

It might be helpful to remember why Carter wasn't reelected and it wasn't because of the inflation or the economic problems.

#14 | Posted by danni

You are wacked out dan. I guess you don't remember the gas lines, inflation, high interest rates, and the missery index. Every policy he ever had failed. The man was the worst president we ever had. We are heading in the same direction again.

I agree. He had my vote until the economy tanked and it turned out he was for bailing out failures. The stimulus package was even worse.

Put me down as another disappointed Obama sucker.

It might be helpful to remember why Carter wasn't reelected and it wasn't because of the inflation or the economic problems.

When the left was crying, "It's the economy, stupid", what they really meant, "It's the economy, stupid, unless it's Carter's election".

Right, Danni?

Where is the Misery then sniper?? Jobs were lost due to Bush's policies not Obama's. Kanrei why are you disappointed? Are you not still employed? Sun still shines and the retort is still here. What else do you need?

oops, sully already hit the "it's the economy, stupid" thing. Sorry for the redundancy. Too much to read. LOL

"It might be helpful to remember why Carter wasn't reelected and it wasn't because of the inflation or the economic problems. It was the hostage crisis which ended after the inauguration due to negotiations conducted illegally by Reagan administration officials before Reagan was president. Reagan continued Carter's economic policies including keeping Paul Volker on as Chairman of the Fed and he is the one that held interest rates very high causing a recession but also diminishing the inflation"

Danni, wrong. I lived through it. We had double-digit inflation, unemployment and prime rate and you want to think no one was pissed about pocketbook issues??
Volker was appointed by Carter to the Fed. When his term was up, Reagan put in Greenspan. Reagan did not "keep Volker on" in any way since he could not fire the Fed chief.
Wishful thinking is going to get my party in trouble again.

LOL. You've never heard the cliche "Its the economy, Stupid!" The economy is exactly why people didn't like Carter. Getting whipped by a bunch of Iranian students or duped by obvious crooks like Castro (the boat lift) hurt his reputation but didn't upset people as much as seeing their standard of living go down.

#18 | Posted by Sully at 2009-06-04 10:52 AM

It may sound dumb and trivial, but to me (other than the economic and policy disasters Carter inflicted upon our country) I was really annoyed when Carter refused to even turn on the White House Christmas Tree lights so we could "show our solidarity" with the hostages held in Iran. If there was ever a time when our country could use a little cheering up, it was during the Carter years. Yet we couldn't even turn on the tree lights.

Carter essentially was a good man, but a weak and inefficient President.

Carter essentially was a good man, but a weak and inefficient President.

Posted by califchris at 2009-06-04 11:22 AM |

This is what i am seeing with Obama- great on paper, but not in practice.

"Where is the Misery then sniper?? Jobs were lost due to Bush's policies not Obama's."

True also, Rasta, and I in no way endorse the Bush economic insanity. But Obama's policies will start to have an effect about this time next year. Believe me, if you think it's bad now add a trillion dollars of currency inflation (i.e. purchasing weakening)to the mess. When companies have to pay Master Card/Visa interest rates to expand, they don't do that and jobs are lost. The prime rate under Carter was over 20% because of nonsense like this.
I like Obama, his court pick, his overtures to the Arabs and especially his tact. I do not want him brought down by economic fantasy. Because then the Republicans will have carte blanche to do whatever they want.

By the way, I also want to say I liked a lot about Carter his economics to the side. He was the pioneer behind Freedom of Information laws, something the conservatives have found of value just as much as liberals. He also began deregulation, which ran into some problems in airlines and trucking but was overall successful and a rather conservative idea, if conservatives ever thought about that.
He was also honest. The present politcal milieu in both parties makes me yearn for that.

"Its the economy, Stupid!"

That's a Clinton campaign slogan. Try again.

"It's the economy, stupid" was a phrase in American politics widely used during Bill Clinton's successful 1992 presidential campaign against George H.W. Bush."

AH what a funny load of crap

bho is no carter??

oh please...one day soon he will start to start tallllkkking laaakkk DISsssssssss

he is looking like him so much

here is a toast that he suffers the same political fate

"here is a toast that he suffers the same political fate"

oil embargo
hosage crisis

Wow....you hope for trouble for America. Thanks a heap.

tallllkkking laaakkk DISsssssssss

You write like that already.

please..can you do something about this sanctamonious mood you have been in lately...
it doesnt become you or your positions at all.
you know its my prediction...not my wish...and if you dont, then you need a drink.........

hell have one anyway....

it was a poor attempt at writing like a southernor would talk...southern drawl you know....

so sue me

#31 Danni> That's a Clinton campaign slogan. Try again.

You seem to have ignored all the rebuttal to your post about why Reagan was elected. The economy was poor under Carter and his actions to spur it were evidently ineffective. THAT was the main reason he lost to Reagan.

Would you also agree that the economy under GW's second term had at least some effect on Obama's election? You also failed to address another poster who said that Obama's deficits would be greater than Reagan + Bush Sr. + G.W. Bush combined ... I wonder why?

oil embargo
hosage crisis

Wow....you hope for trouble for America. Thanks a heap.

#33 | Posted by danni at 2009-06-04 11:

SORRY I didnt write this back as soon as I read it

so by your comments one can assume that you consider the carter administration "TROUBLE" and thus a FAILURE...

thanks for the support......lol

"That's a Clinton campaign slogan. Try again.

"It's the economy, stupid" was a phrase in American politics widely used during Bill Clinton's successful 1992 presidential campaign against George H.W. Bush.""

And he won two elections so the insight seems kind of valid, no?

Do you think people only started caring about the economy in the 90's?

I know you're not dumb but your hackishness/knee jerk defense of all things DNC substitutes for stupidity nicely.

Carter's loss to Reagan was about the shit economy.

Jim Kramer's analysis is both jaw-dropping and eye-opening, I cannot believe that we didin't see this before. KRAMER is BACL, throwing of the tyrannical yoke of his OBAM Worshipping employer and speaking the truth

"You seem to have ignored all the rebuttal to your post about why Reagan was elected."

I ignored it because I know differently. Carter was leading in the polls but the hostage crises ruined his presidency. Read up a little and you'll see that I am right on that. You can love/hate Carter and Reagan but the fact is it was the hostage crises that ended Carter's presidency.
BTW, if you think it was the economy then I ask you to recall what George Bush called Reagan's ideas on the economy....Voo Doo Economics. Reagan was elected because people lost faith in Carter's ability to deal with the Iranians not because anone really believed Reagan knew anything about economics....which he definitely didn't. We pay to day for the mistakes made by Reagan.

What he really needs is about 10 more senatorial votes for insurance.

Otherwise he's doing just fine.

#41 Danni> Read up a little and you'll see that I am right on that. You can love/hate Carter and Reagan but the fact is it was the hostage crises that ended Carter's presidency.

Um, I was reading about it THEN because I was looking to vote for Carter or Reagan. You said "the fact is" but can you find anything to back that up?

Btw, I thought Carter was a very moral person but a lousy politician ... and people in both parties in D.C. used his naivete against him.

The economy grew under Reagan and the federal tax coffers SWELLED ... but Reagan+Republicans+Democrats outspent the tax receipts ... the exact same scenario that has been playing every since then (like a tired old movie at the only theater in town).

Nice try, Danni, but no cigar.

oh danni

sweety....I understand how you want to block that time from your memory but it seems that obama is doing everything he can to keep jogging memories of that time..

good luck with dealing with that....

now go get that drink

the wrong carter was elected it should have been billy,you can trust any man who makes his own beer.billy beer i still have a 6 pack.best thing that came out of the carter years.

the wrong carter was elected it should have been billy

That's what I've always said

billy beer i still have a 6 pack.best thing that came out of the carter years

Obviously you know better than to drink that crap excuse for beer but otherwise you're right

Obviously you know better than to drink that crap excuse for beer but otherwise you're right

any port in a storm.

"Btw, I thought Carter was a very moral person but a lousy politician ."

I think the oil embargo and the hostage crisis crippled his presidency. The economic problems were related to oil and so was the inflation. I don't think Carter was responsible for those things, he was just an unlucky person in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Billy Beer was Falls City.

The economic problems were related to oil and so was the inflation.

Bullshit, Danni. I can't believe you keep repeating that. I proved to you several times with links that you could not dispute that this is wrong. The oil embargo was over two years before Carter took office. The vietnam war was over two years before carter took office. Yet inflation started to rise the very month he took office and rose every single month save one during his presidency. It started to fall again in Feb, 1981.

You obviously have yourself convinced that St. Carter was a victim of something else, but there simply isn't any data to support your claimss.

#48 Danni> I don't think Carter was responsible for those things, he was just an unlucky person in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Would you give G.W. Bush the same latitude? LOL! I'd bet you wouldn't! Carter did not have a forceful personality and was perceived by other nations as somewhat weak. One word used then and later to describe his administration was "malaise", something nobody accused Reagan of (as well as other Presidents).

I try to be a realist as far as I can. That's why I blame G.W. for his horrendous spending record and give Obama about 4x as much blame for the same reason (4x deficit spending).

"[I]f the government was running a life insurance
company it would set enough money aside in any given
year to cover expected claims, and then spend the
rest. There would be no investment accounts. An
inability to sell new policies and collect new
premiums to cover claims would lead to failure.
Sounds good, doesn't it?"
-Neal Boortz, syndicated radio host, 06-04-09

"Even as we take steps to address the recession and
threats to financial stability, maintaining the
confidence of the financial markets requires that
we, as a nation, begin planning now for the restoration
of fiscal balance."
-Ben Bernanke, Fed. Reserve Chairman, 06-03-2009
(White House estimates $1.8 trillion budget deficit
this year! 4x last year's deficit)

Carter wasn't courageous, he was stupid.

"Would you give G.W. Bush the same latitude?"

I remember right after 9-11, no one was attacking Bush. then he decided to use it as an excuse to invade Iraq. That was his choice, not an event over which he had no control.

"Yet inflation started to rise the very month he took office and rose every single month save one during his presidency."

Wow. Somehow he carried "inflation" with him into the WH. Impossible.

I did forget the timing on the oil embargo though.

#54 Danni> then he decided to use it as an excuse to invade Iraq. That was his choice, not an event over which he had no control.

And I would never say he had little or no control over the decision to invade Iraq. However, there were a lot of other people on board the Iraq decision ... from both sides of the aisle. I can give you many, many quotes where people like Hillary & Bill, Polosi, etc. said the same things about Iraq that G.W. Bush did. Do you still want to pin all the blame on Bush?

#54 Danni> Wow. Somehow he carried "inflation" with him into the WH. Impossible.

Funny how you place all the blame for deficit spending on Reagan (ignoring both Dems and Repubs in Congress at the time) ... but can't bring yourself to give Carter blame for high inflation during his one term? Take the blinders off and enjoy the view...

Oh yeah, the Carter years were a great time to invest, assuming one has the money to start with. I seem to remember one-year CD rates were around 15% (doubling your investment in about 5 years, insured by the government)!

"And I would never say he had little or no control over the decision to invade Iraq. However, there were a lot of other people on board the Iraq decision"

Who were purposefully not provided with accurate information about WMDs, yellow cake uranium, Iraq/Al Quaeda connections, etc.
So, they were "on board" but were misled.

Good grief, quadrupling the deficit and not responsible for it. The true Teflon President is Obama. No matter how much he screws up, his devout followers will give him a pass. After all as a candidate for affirmative action, his hard life dictates that he is "not responsible," or is that irresponsible.

#57 Danni: please note WHO said the following and WHEN (ie pre-Bush or not) ;^)

"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Nancy Pelosi, Dec 16, 1998

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow."
-Bill Clinton, 1998

There are many other quotes out there...

There are many other quotes out there...

#59 | Posted by AKat

Yes, and they've been posted here a million times before.

Nevertheless, the real question is WHO had the ultimate responsibility to make sure he was RIGHT before sending 4,100 troops to die and 30,000 to be injured and maimed?

It doesn't really matter what rhetoric was used by other people. They didn't order American forces into an unnecessary invasion of Iraq based on faulty or manufactured intelligence.

2037, President for life Obama, taking a page from the book of President for life Chavez of Venezuela, and remaining in office in the interests of "the people," still hasn't accomplished his goals because of "Bush." Beloved Leader Obama is arranging for transfer of leadership to his Beloved Daughter Sasha. Let us sing songs of praise to her.

Let us sing songs of praise to her.
#61 | Posted by Johnson

Okeedohkee.

As I was walking down the street
Down the street, down the street
A pretty girl I chanced to meet
And we danced by the light of the moon

CHORUS:
Buffalo gals won't you come out tonight
Come out tonight come out tonight
Buffalo gals won't you come out tonight
And we'll dance by the light of the moon

I danced with a gal with a hole in her stocking
And he knees was a-knockin' and her shoes was a'rockin'
I danced with a gal with a hole in her stocking
And we danced by the light of the moon

CHORUS

I danced with a gal with a hole in her stocking
And her knees was a-knockin' and her shoes was a-rockin'
I danced with a gal with a hole in her stocking
And we danced by the light of the moon

CHORUS

Frankly, I find that a bit raucous and am considerably more inclined to:

The Campptown ladies sing this song,
Doo-da, Doo-da
The Camptown racetrack's five miles long
Oh, de doo-da day

Goin' to run all night
Goin' to run all day
I bet my money on a bob-tailed nag
Somebody bet on the gray

Oh, the long tailed filly and the big black horse,
Doo-da, doo-da
Come to a mud hole and they all cut across,
Oh, de doo-da day

Goin' to run all night
Goin' to run all day
I bet my money on a bob-tailed nag
Somebody bet on the gray

I went down there with my hat caved in,
Doo-da, doo-da
I came back home with a pocket full of tin
Oh, de doo-da day

Goin' to run all night
Goin' to run all day
I bet my money on a bob-tailed nag
Somebody bet on the gray

Whattayathink?

This is personal I know (but overall, what isn;t?)

Carter was the first candidate I ever gave money to or campaigned for.. I was ecstatic when he got elected, feeling (I was young) that I'd helped him win over people that I considered his inferiors.. I was 100% committed to helping him win.. arguing his case vehemently with anyone that would listen.

4 years later.. I was voting for Reagan, very disappointed in Carter. I considered him then, and I do now, a naive boob. I know the arguments about him not being a Washington insider, and how the establishment was out to get him (there's plenty of truth to that).. but that doesn't excuse or explain his incredibly naive view of the world. Iranians have written about how they were shocked at his lack of response to the students capturing the embassy workers. The clerics at first were going to insist they let them go, fearing a US response.. but once it became evident that there wasn't going to be one.. they began to hold Carter and the US in contempt.

Carter is a worse ex-prez than he was president; and don't hand me the charity work angle to excuse it. He's meddled, and is still meddling in affairs he does not understand, and is bitter about his legacy. Carter has no friends in Washington, none, and there's a reason for it. They consider him contemptible.

In short, I despise him. ANd, I DO see Obama as Jimmy II. I don't despise Obama, but I see the same naivete and incompetence. Obama, like Carter, is a one termer, and his legacy will not be something his supporters will cherish.

Obama, like Carter, is a one termer
#63 | Posted by nmg_no

From your lips to God's ears..

Yeah, NMG and Carter's energy plan would have made our country strong today. You voted for Reagan who eliminated it and the rest is the history of the slow descent of America into bankruptcy. Carter was a man of ideas but not good at pushing an agenda. Reagan was a man who could push an agenda without any real ideas.
Carter's ideas would have been good for America but he gets a bad rep because he was ineffectual.
Reagan's complete lack of any real ideas combined with his strong personality which enabled him to push tax cuts, etc. left the country with huge debt but himself popular.
Popularity of ex-presidents isn't necessarily connected to their benefit to the country.

COME ON DOC

not lyrics again....

(as if IM one to talk about posters...LOL

Your messiah is no carter.
heaven help us.

Hope and Change

SUCKERS

hahahahahahahahahahaha. Carter was gutless, so what does that make BO? Carter gave away the Canal - BO will give away, what, Israel?

How did Carter give away the Canal?? Didn't we agree to the terms eons before Carter ever became President??

Larry

How did Carter give away the Canal?? Didn't we agree to the terms eons before Carter ever became President??

No. There was no such agreement. Carter gave the canal away.

Carter and courage?

What the hell?

More like Carter and Obama doing the bend over.

Carter has more courage and moral fortitude than Raygun, both Bush biatches and Nixon combined.

/Not that that's saying much, of course.

As one of the few American politicians to speak the truth about Israel's atate sponsored terrorism and apartheid state he's Amerioa's most moral elder statesman yet alive.

And yes, morality, True Morality, takes courage.

Be Well.

turn off that dvd you're watching...it's poluting your mind

As one of the few American politicians to speak the truth about Israel's atate sponsored terrorism and apartheid state he's Amerioa's most moral elder statesman yet alive.

And yes, morality, True Morality, takes courage.

Be Well.

#72 | Posted by dethspud

Israel's state sponsored terrorism!?

Are you on drugs or just stupid?

Well you wrote "atate" so at at a bare minimum your sloppy. (not to mention you should learn to spell America)

Now that I think of it, why should anyone take you seriously?

Come back when you learn to spell and type. sheesh!

Israel's state sponsored terrorism!?

Are you on drugs or just stupid?

Well you wrote "atate" so at at a bare minimum your sloppy. (not to mention you should learn to spell America)

Now that I think of it, why should anyone take you seriously?

Come back when you learn to spell and type. sheesh!

Posted by Mato at 2009-06-05 01:04 AM | Reply

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

Yeah I got a good laugh too, Larry

Israel's state sponsored terrorism!?

Are you on drugs or just stupid?

You know even less about the real history of Israel and yer own country's involvement in that history than a talking potato.

Sad is that.

Here's a clue...

Clue One:

There is terrorism on both sides of the Paklestinian-Israeli conflict the main difference is that Israel stands atop the larger pile of corpses by far.

And also the fact that America enables and protects this behaviour to a ridiculous degree.

Now that you have the first clue do try collecting the whole set.

K?

Try learning something about a topic before beaking off on it and then maybe you'll look like less of an ignoranus.

/Yes, Spud knows it's spelled "ignoramus" but in yer case...

Be Well.

Paklestinian = Palestinian

/Afore the word police come and arrest Spud!

Be Well.

If a bunch of countries gave me my ancestors homeland as my own country despite the fact that other peoples have occupied that land for the centuries since I'd still fight to the death to keep it. Especially after 3 or 4 generations of my kin had since been born and raised there.

It would be nice if the Israelis and Palestinians could reach a meeting of the minds but that's not likely to happen. The Palestinians, Arabs and Jews idiotically hate each other despite being practically brothers both ethnically and religiously but are too pigheaded to admit it. The U.S. and other countries are in the middle of it all since they were the ones who signed off on the creation of Israel and now they want the Arab oil.

The strangest thing about this may be the liberals (in the U.S.) who champion the Palestinian cause versus the conservatives (again in the U.S.) who rally to Israel's defense when realistically we should just stand back and let the parties actually involved duke it out amongst themselves. There will be another war in the Middle East and probably more but we've already fucked it up enough so it's best we just stand back now and let the shit fly.

Hell. At this point I'd say we'd be better off with Carter than BHO. I don't remember Carter apologizing for the United States. Carter may have given Iran to the Mullahs, given away the Panama canal, mismanaged the economy to the point where the inflation rate was 20% and unemployment was 20% but I don't remember him being ashamed of the United States.

#80 | Posted by zulu at 2009-06-05 08:01 AM | Reply | Flag: Received the Best Repetition of Billorushannity Talking Points Award

Jimmy Carter is an example what the US media does to a President who doesn't genuflect to Israel.

Israel's state sponsored terrorism!?

should read

israel's state sponsored self defense but then you israeli haters really dont give a fuck about that now do you?

carter is an example of what liberal democrats can do to fuck things up and he is being made to look like a piker compared to obama

Jimmy Carter is an example what the US media does to a President who doesn't genuflect to Israel. They can't be blatant about it but they can subtly manipulate the public so as to make the President look ineffective and a buffoon.

I used to believe the media too but a deeper look revealed Carter was screwed because he wanted to remove Middle East influence (and that includes Israel) as a major factor in our foreign policy. It set him up for Iran hostages and Reagan's October surprise using the Israel-Iran arms deals.

most of you seem to think that lossin the most people in a war somehow absolves you from the guilt of continuin it-peace offers of all kinds have been rejected by the palistinians who seem to think isreal is goin make a deal that will end in its disapearence
jasman

Yes, but where was Cheney really during 911?