This article is quite complimentary toward the Obama-administration's meddling into the auto industry.

Read it and draw your own conclusions.

Too many butt ugly new vehicles, Not to mention too many BIG Vehicles and not enough economical ones caused them to go tits up. They didn't listen to the customer nor the changing times and gas prices, I hope they can become a better company because of all this mess but I have my doubts. GM has died and a piece of My heart died with them,

Larry

MOOMAN

I thought I'd stop by again on my way to bed (just took the dog out) and say a couple things:

-You've always been a decent person to me. My statements were for the most part aimed at the 'right wingers' who have championed tax credits to move jobs overseas and trillions to help anyone but average Americans, but seem opposed to almost any proposition that would directly benefit Americans right now - loans to the auto industry, the stimulus bill that will put people to work and rebuild our infrastructure.

-The one million figure is directly in the auto industry and suppliers. 6 million when you include all the people in those towns who will be out of work as restaurants and other businesses can no longer support them. Just a couple weeks ago I was in one such community. Half the downtown was boarded up. When I went to a restaurant I was often one of only two or three out of 30 tables with customers during the daytime - a restaurant that was busy a couple years ago before the main employer moved to China.

Hey, I know you're not a bad person. The right wing of the GOP has presided over millions upon millions of manufacturing jobs leaving this country the last 8 years and done nothing at all - or even provided tax credits to pay for the move overseas.

I wish this country could come together under at lest one issue: The penultimate need to keep good paying jobs in this country.

I know you love this country. But, our country is the people who live here. We're a hell of a lot worse off then we were before the GOP took total control. Even when the recession ends the middle class will be one step closer to disappearing as we knew it.

Anyway, if you read this I'll chalk up our debate in light of the hour in which it was held. Have a good day.

JEFFJ

Say what you will about autoworkers making $50,000 a year. That isn't much in this day and age. After state and federal income taxes and rising health insurance premiums you can maybe qualify for a $100-125,000 home under traditional credit requirements if interest rates stay low AND lenders begin to loan again.

Living wage jobs have disappeared by the millions the last 8 years while $10 an hour jobs and credit cards have kept up the appearance that we haven't lost what we have.

AU problem is that many republicans see 10.00 as a perfectly acceptable living wage.

Say what you will about autoworkers making $50,000 a year. That isn't much in this day and age.

I am 38 years-old and make less than that with a Bachelor's degree from a very respected liberal arts college. I know that we are not talking about a lot of money. I know this firsthand from personal experience. Nobody, and I mean "Nobody" is entitled to jack-shit. Fuck this entitlement bullshit. Propping up a non-competitive business-model is asinine.

PS - my personal woes are on me - I don't expect the government, or anybody else, to subsidize my income or protect my employment.

I am sorry but 50K a Year is quite a bit of money even for this day and age. It all boils down to HOW You spend it. If You want hoity toity prickazoidal fancy shmancy stuff then no it's not alot of money. But if one budgets their money accordingly I am sure they could live comfortably with 50K a Year.

Larry

Larry think about where you live. Kansas rent except for KC area is going to be cheaper than many other parts of the country. At 50K expect to bring home about 1250 every 2 weeks after taxes 401k and insurance. Then start subtracting student loans,car payments, rent which nowadays can be around a grand a month. Then after utilities and such you don't have a lot left over each month.

#5, #6 --

I agree with both. I got laid off in 2001 making $77k. I baked bread for over 3 years. During that time my highest salary was $28k. I at a lot of beans and rice, didn't do much, but I survived until a better job came along. I still had my son living with me two of those years as well.

Sometimes we have to sacrifice. It's up to us to survive, not the government.

This isn't to say the truly needy with physical or mental handicaps or the aged aren't entitled to public assistance. But able bodied people like me are not. It is up to each of us to make our own lives better

I still don't understand how you could only get a job baking bread with the vast experience you claim to have Goat. I would have assumed you more capable than that.

I still don't understand how you could only get a job baking bread with the vast experience you claim to have Goat. I would have assumed you more capable than that

This was just after 9/11 and the ensuing recession that hit the tech industry particularly hard. Also, I was a telephone guy living in the N Dallas area. Throw a rock there and you will hit a telephone techie. Every major phone company and equipment manufacturer has offices and/or plants there. My headhunter told me that for every job I applied for there were at least 25-30 others applying for the same job. I'm good, but apparently not good enough to compete against that many.

So I set my sights on an offshore job, (see 'counterpunch' thread about love of the ocean talk) moved to San Antonio, and baked bread until that offshore job became available which it did when oil prices started rising about 5 years ago and the industry started booming.

When I was inbetween jobs last year I took a 17.00 an hour job for 3 months but I certainly didn't stay there for 3 years.

Goat you should have gotten a job in biotech the industry is recession proof. Need for people to service med equipment never goes away.

GM spent too much time on their knees giving the big oil companies blow jobs over the years. For those of you that means they never tried to make their mpg fuel efficiency any better unless the government came after them. The auto industry been around since before the twenties and for an industry that still has cars getting only 23 mpg they should be ashamed of themselfes. They have engines they bought from mechanical enginerring graduates that get between 100 and 200 mpg and keep them in there basements. If those engines were running that would sink the oil companies stock faster than a rock. get it.

"Not to mention too many BIG Vehicles and not enough economical ones caused them to go tits up."

That's right Larry! The key to business success is buidling products customer do not want to buy.

You're fucking brilliant! No wonder you're a millionaire!

They have engines they bought from mechanical enginerring graduates that get between 100 and 200 mpg and keep them in there basements.

#13 | Posted by JoeLabey at 2009-06-03 03:49 AM | Reply

Is that you Boob? Another conspiracy?

Try to think clearly for a moment, Joe. If GM could build a big-ass SUV that could get 60 mpg (not to mention 200!!) They would rule the world.

They have every reason to use such technology and no reason to hold it back (unless you have another conspiracy up your sleeve).

"Is that you Boob?"

There's more than one.
I fear they are legion.

~The beatings will continue until morale improves.

What is the hottest selling GM car right now? The Camaro. I guess GM is not listing, because everything I read say's that one of the reasons why they are in trouble is because they build big cars and trucks that nobody wants.

Then after utilities and such you don't have a lot left over each month.

#7 | Posted by rastaninja

and your point? Oh yeah, everyone should have a Ferrari and vacation in Europe. BS ninja. You don't like your wage, go back to school - not saying it is easy but tough shit. You (and I) are not "entitled" to happiness, just the pursuit of happiness. How we get there is up to us.

AU,

It was late, and I held out as long as I could after repeatedly asking you to stop the ad hominems. That said, I will take your above post as an apology and offer my own for letting my temper get the better of me.

Now to address a few points:

My statements were for the most part aimed at the 'right wingers' who have championed tax credits to move jobs overseas...

I have NEVER defended the practice of outsourcing overseas. However, tax credits are only part of the problem. The other part of the problem is left-wingers making a hostile environment for business. You just can't regulate and tax businesses into the ground and expect them to stay.

I am not saying do away with all regulation and taxes... but at a certain level it just becomes more cost effective for the business to take the hit and move. The same thing is going on in States that highly tax upper income brackets. They have actually seen a drop in revenue as the wealthy move to areas that are not so draconian.

I think both sides bear an equal amount of blame for causing outsourcing and just addressing one issue won't stop it.

but seem opposed to almost any proposition that would directly benefit Americans right now

The problem isn't that it helps some Americans, it is that it does so at the expense of many MORE Americans during a time when they need all the cash they have. There are other car companies. GM going under doesn't erase those companies. Furthermore, the vacuum left by GM will eventually be filled, but keeping them plodding along in this undead, zombie-like state neither clears the way, nor really resurrects the company. It is a blackhole for the resources of the taxpayers.

I wish this country could come together under at lest one issue: The penultimate need to keep good paying jobs in this country.

I don't think that has ever been the dispute between the sides. The dispute has been on how best to do that.

We're a hell of a lot worse off then we were before the GOP took total control.

I agree that total control by the Republicans was not a good thing on the whole. However, I don't believe total control by the Democrats will turn out any better. Absolute power... you know what they say about it. I think we have only gotten a taste of just how bad total control by ANY party can be.

AU,

One more thing... you said:

I wish this country could come together under at lest one issue: The penultimate need to keep good paying jobs in this country.

If keeping good paying jobs in this country is the PENultimate need... what is the ULTIMATE need? Penultimate means next to the last, or in the sense you used it: the #2 need.

So what do you feel is the #1 need?

So what do you feel is the #1 need?

MOOMAN

#1 - Keeping America safe, which includes restoring our image in the world as a country that does the right thing when it's the hard thing to do.

That was an apology the other night.

Good luck with everything in your life. You're alright ... for a right winger LOL

Unity, do us a favor and shut up, your giving everyone a headache.

Unity, do us a favor and shut up, your giving everyone a headache.

#22 | Posted by r_zeitgeist

Clean "your" room! (yelled from upstairs).

You think?

Last time I stayed with my parents, I was 18 years old and just getting ready to join the military.

How about you Eunuch? when was the last time you stayed with your mommy?

I'm betting 20 years ago when you were in your 50's and your boyfeind gave you the Boot.