Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Monday, June 01, 2009

Paul Krugman: "This bill is the most important legislation for financial institutions in the last 50 years. It provides a long-term solution for troubled thrift institutions. ... All in all, I think we hit the jackpot." So declared Ronald Reagan in 1982, as he signed the Garn-St. Germain Depository Institutions Act. He was, as it happened, wrong about solving the problems of the thrifts. On the contrary, the bill turned the modest-sized troubles of savings-and-loan institutions into an utter catastrophe. But he was right about the legislation's significance. And as for that jackpot well, it finally came more than 25 years later, in the form of the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.

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That is pure bullshit. Anybody in their right mind would not make an upside-down loan to someone that can't pay it off without some arm twisting from somewhere. The only way a large institution would do that is if they new the government would bail their asses out of the trouble.

"Anybody in their right mind would not make an upside-down loan to someone that can't pay it off without some arm twisting from somewhere"

If that were true, all banks would have been involved. Many stayed away from the sub-prime mess, which makes me believe it was more about greed, market share, and a sleeping SEC.

Sure they would. The bank wanted to loan me more than I needed for a house, and more than I thought I could afford. The inital lender knew they were going to sell the loan (and any associated risk) to another company. They were going to make money off the sale and leave the next company up the line with the problem.

. Anybody in their right mind would not make an upside-down loan to someone that can't pay it off without some arm twisting from somewhere

Greed, pure and simple, Sniper. And stupidity.
The heart of the free market system. The guys writing the loans often fabricated income to make sure the deal went through. There were massive scams involving mortgage officers, realtors and property assessors in Florida-and everybody got their piece of the pie. (fat commissions)
NPR interviewed one lender who wrote five mortgages for an unemployed drug dealer (grow ops).

And then there were the suckers who bought the bundled mortgages thinking they were gonna make a killing. Oh yea, and a shit-load of purchasers who thought they were gonna double their investment due to the never-ending bubble before the ARM kicked in.

The dyed in the wool Reagan supporters will probably never admit the truth but they will pay for it regardless.

Hay guys!!! If it was greed, they had to be assured that they would get the money from someplace. Are you all trying to tell me all thoes banks would go to Nevada and put it all down on the dark horse in the race? SHIT!!!!!!!!

Sniper-a lot of the people who got burned did it when they re-mortgaged their homes that had already been paid off-they were told and believed the home would be worth so much more when they sold it that the money borrowed would be essentially free. Once the interest rate went up, the house value didn't and their incomes couldn't cover the payments. I defy you to find legislation requiring the remortgaging of retiree's homes so they could buy boats or RVs or crap for their kids.

they had to be assured that they would get the money from someplace

Here's what the banks were doing:

1. Loan money for a mortgage, take a risk, get a nice fee upfront.

2. Sell mortgage, get money back, no more risk.

3. Repeat.

It was like musical chairs.

Those who had completed step one but not step two when the music stopped lost.

1. Loan money for a mortgage, take a risk, get a nice fee upfront.
2. Sell mortgage, get money back, no more risk.
3. Repeat.

You forgot 'Rinse', where sub-prime loans got re-packaged and re-rated.

And since property values were going up, they figured even if they lost on few deals, they would make money on the rest. Even in foreclosure cases, they could put the house on the market and make money. When they went overboard though, and when housing prices starting coming back to reality, they lost their gamble.

It was a giant scheme. Those that made money early and bailed out made money. Those that stuck in there lost big time.

I bought my place in 2001 for 139K. In 2005, a neighbor's smaller place sold for 365K. I missed my window.

Greed, pure and simple, Sniper. And stupidity.

#4 | Posted by northguy3 at 2009-06-01 12:50 PM

You make a strong case for bailing those guys out.

LOD-they should have shot the execs and waterboarded the loan officers.
But what would have happened if they were all allowed to fail?

Sniper-if you don't think the de-regulation game isn't just a legalized loot and pillage program, take a look at ENRON and California.

You make a strong case for bailing those guys out.
#12 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

How about because we need banks and a functional money supply? Sadly, letting them fail was not an option.

Not like the banks actually profit from this. They have to pay the bailout loans back with interest. And those don't begin to make up for the massive amounts of money they lost.

The real problem that no one is talking about (or not enough) is that people run these banks. These tycoons make tons of money, run the banks into the ground, and leave. They KEEP the money. What do they care if the bank fails after they were paid for the last five years? The bail outs don't effect them. They've already been paid. Bankruptcy of the bank doesn't effect them. They've already been paid. The only thing that would stop these people is regulation in the first place prohibiting the outright gambling of the bank's assets by a few madmen. There is a reason we had no banking crisis from the 1930's til the 1980's.

#11 Wow! Awesome bubblicious example!

www.amazon.com

Two Santa Clauses or How The Republican Party Has Conned America for Thirty Years

www.ohiomajorityradio.com

Reagan will go down in history as one of the worst presidents ever (though not as bad as Bush, Jr. of course) and Obama will be one of the best. I'm glad I'm here to see the changes.

Krugman, who won the Nobel Prize for Economics explains in detail how the Reagan policies created the current economic fiasco.

Sniper, who is an extreme wingnut, says this is bullshit.

Gee. I wonder who is more believable? LOL. It must suck to be a wingnut nowadays. Truth and reality keep administering facials.

Besides being a Racist (WAS AGAINST THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT IN 1964, AN THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT OF 1965), Ronald Reagan was a lousy Economist. Mr. Krugman is much to honest for his own good these Right Wing Assholes will crusify him for questioning their GOD, RONALD REAGAN. The Conservative Right does not do well with FACTS!!!!!

Interesting, Corky. I hadn't heard of Jude Wanniski before, but that Grover Norquist - what a guy!

Then there's the Gramms - Wendy Gramm was in the Reagan cabinet and then ended up a Director of Enron, and we know what Phil Gramm did to the banking indistry.

The Right are so two-faced about their contempt for the people. No wonder the party of Jack Javits and Nelson Rockefeller and Barry Goldwater would be unrecognizable to them today.

The other few remaining human beings should leave it behind.

-Grover Norquist - what a guy!

That's only a rumor.....

Great political/economic history in the article, though.

He was my favorite Muppet. "There is a Monster at the End of this Book" was among my favorites of his work.

What a crock of bullshit!
The biggest disaster ever conceived was the government forcing banks to make loans and mortgages to minorities that had absolutely no means of paying them off! Like everything else, once the government gets involved, it turns into a disaster. and now they want to take over healthcare and ARE taking over GMC??? God help us all.

To me that was always a big point on the bail out. The folks who said the banks should fail and be punished missed the point. The guys responsible already got away with it. Bank failure to most of them was just an early retirement. Its the rest of us that might possibly pay for the collapse, and all the stock owners and bank employees that would end up being punished, not the guys that created the problem.

I am still not convinced that the bail out was the way to go, but the idea that we did not "punish" the bankers by doing so is incorrect. They already got theirs regardless.

Krugman's excuse for Obama's fuck ups is a third graders excuse. "Ronald Reagan fucked up too WAAAAAHHHH!!!"

S&L fraud was whitewashed except for Keating serving 2 years. A token gesture, considering that the problem was the result of Reagan permitting S&L officers to loan money to themselves, mostly based on fraudulent appraisals. Most never made a single payment on their loans and never faced a prosecutor for their crimes.

Congress did put in place legislation to prevent this kind of disaster from repeating itself, but Greenspan and Paulson ignored the law and did whatever the fuck they felt like.

When poor people don't pay they are punished by the IRS, law enforcement, and the credit system. But when the superrich commit crime, Geithner actually called it an "accident". While thieves and their politicians preach freedom, free markets, and the wonders of capitalism. The bailout is stealing in broad daylight, plain and simple.

Anybody in their right mind would not make an upside-down loan to someone that can't pay it off without some arm twisting from somewhere.

#1 | Posted by Sniper at 2009-06-01 12:39 PM

If their bonus depended on it, you bet they would.

How many of these guys have been held accountable for bankrupting their companies? I have not heard of many.

Ronald Reagan was a lousy Economist.

Yes, but he sure was quick with the one-liners though. That should be justification enough to give him a pass on being incompetent.

S&L fraud was whitewashed except for Keating serving 2 years.

Neil Bush is doing quite nice for himself nowadays.

Specially after Babs "donated" all that money to the Katrina relief fund and earmarked that it go to buying Neil's crappy educational computer software.

Specially after Babs "donated" all that money to the Katrina relief fund and earmarked that it go to buying Neil's crappy educational computer software.
#29 | Posted by 726

Is that true? Man, the huevos on that woman....

The only thing that would stop these people is regulation in the first place prohibiting the outright gambling of the bank's assets by a few madmen. There is a reason we had no banking crisis from the 1930's til the 1980's.

#14 | Posted by Sycophant at 2009-06-01 01:32 PM

Have they started increasing regulations yet?

Is that true? Man, the huevos on that woman....

#30 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2009-06-01 03:20 PM

www.chron.com

Former first lady's donation aids son
Katrina funds earmarked to pay for Neil Bush's software program

Krugman, who won the Nobel Prize for Economics explains in detail how the Reagan policies created the current economic fiasco.

#18 | Posted by moder8 at 2009-06-01 01:55 PM

If winning the Nobel Prize for Economics is your criteria, I wonder what you think of this article by Joseph Stiglitz, another Nobel Prize winner in Economics.
The Obama administration's $500 billion or more proposal to deal with America's ailing banks has been described by some in the financial markets as a win-win-win proposal. Actually, it is a win-win-lose proposal: the banks win, investors win and taxpayers lose.

Treasury hopes to get us out of the mess by replicating the flawed system that the private sector used to bring the world crashing down, with a proposal marked by overleveraging in the public sector, excessive complexity, poor incentives and a lack of transparency.

www.nytimes.com

forcing banks to make loans and mortgages to minorities that had absolutely no means of paying them off!

Those damn minorities...if we could just get back to the good ol' days when only rich, old, white men had a seat at the table!

#34 | Posted by realpatriot

FF

It all goes back to bad lending practices, Patriot.

Adjusting the curve to accomodate a minority who otherwise wouldn't qualify for credit is a major cog in the wheel that brought us to this point.

Creditworthiness = creditworthiness. Period.

Krugman, who won the Nobel Prize for Economics explains in detail how the Reagan policies created the current economic fiasco.

#18 | Posted by moder8

Which explains how much of a lib he is. Gore won a nobel prize and he is running the biggest scam to come along in a long time. He doesn't know jack shit about global climate change. If he does, he ain't telling us because it would hurt his bottom line.

Come on people. Why would someone make a loan on something way over priced to someone who couldn't afford it?

S&L fraud was whitewashed except for Keating serving 2 years.

Neil Bush is doing quite nice for himself nowadays.

John McCain, not so bad either.

And Snippy-quit while you're not too far under. A guy who blindly posts every rightwingnut email he gets as if its the Gospel truth really shouldn't try and argue against a guy with a Nobel Prize in economics.

Come on people. Why would someone make a loan on something way over priced to someone who couldn't afford it?

#38 | Posted by Sniper

Because there was a profit to be made.

And Snippy-quit while you're not too far under. A guy who blindly posts every rightwingnut email he gets as if its the Gospel truth. . .

This is really funny coming from the guy who blindly posts a "righties suck" post on every thread -- even apolitical like ones about lasers.

Physician, heal thyself.

I love Krugman!

shouldn't try and argue against a guy with a Nobel Prize in economics.

#39 | Posted by northguy3

Damn, I'm sorry. I didn't know he was a god. You gotta be nucking futs to accept everything you read from your commie buddies.

This is really funny coming from the guy who blindly posts a "righties suck" post on every thread -- even apolitical like ones about lasers.

Physician, heal thyself.

#41 | Posted by goatman

Goat-I'll heal myself right after you explain how to make hydrogen with over 100% efficiency. Pesky laws of Physics!

Creditworthiness = creditworthiness. Period.

Truer words were never spoken. But, the lending institutions that stood to make a quick buck upfront because they could sell the risky loan in a secondary market had no concern whether the applicant was creditworthy or not. By the time the loans went bad the money had already been made.

My original response was to the thinly veiled racism injected into the poster's comments. I don't know if he or she intended to be racist or not. If not, he or she needs to think about his/her words a little more carefully!

creditworthiness=Is he black, then give him a loan anyway or Barney Frank and the CRA will be in our ass.

Reagan will go down in history as one of the worst presidents ever (though not as bad as Bush, Jr. of course) and Obama will be one of the best. I'm glad I'm here to see the changes.

#17 | Posted by mrbgoode

Wrong. There's really nothing else to say because you are so horribly wrong.

"Wrong. There's really nothing else to say because you are so horribly wrong."

Let's see, Everlong's evaluation or Paul Krugman's. Oh gee, that's so hard.

The ONLY thing that protects the myth of Ronnie is the stupidity and gullibility of his fan base.

You gotta be nucking futs to accept everything you read from your commie buddies.

#43 | Posted by Sniper

I'll go with the Nobel Laureat over the anonymous emailer claiming Clinton was a felon or killed 7000 servicemen anytime Snippy.

I pleased to read from many of these posts that we are all in agreement that the root cause of our financial collapse primarily involved the poor lending practices of home financing companies.

If Reagan could be blamed today for legislation enacted 25 years ago, is it possible that subsequent acts of legislation could also have contributed?

I wonder how much money Krugman made by shorting stocks during all this.

I'll bet: zero. For all his bluster about who was to blame for all this, he sure didn't predict any of it. So, thanks for nothing.

Why would someone make a loan on something way over priced to someone who couldn't afford it?

Why do you ask the same question over and over after you have gotten the answer from multiple people?

Let's try it one more time.

The profit was in the origination fees.

The loans were securitized and resold.

The bank that originated the loan thus unloaded the risk but kept the fees. The mortgage broker got his/her piece up front, too.

It was the perfect game as long as housing prices continued to rise.

Why is this so hard for you to understand?

Why is this so hard for you to understand?

cause it doesn't relate to Clinton's bj. But it does impugn Saint Reagan's fiscal genius.

Geez boys, it was a DEMOCRATIC congress that created the bill that Reagan signed. He could only go so far in making any needed changes, it needed to be signed!

Try to remember the president PROPOSES - the CONGRESS DISPOSES. They (CONGRESS) make the rules and pay the bills!

You can't blame Reagan during one period when the entire congress was Democratically controlled, the Republican Congress in another one because the President is Democratic, and then another Republican President in yet a third - or can you, why of course you can!

You just did!

It's amazing how no Democrat seems to EVER get blamed for anything, could it be they actually don't do anything?

You bitch about the 'Culture of coruption' when the Republicans are in charge, then sit there as Pelosi and Reid refuse/delay investigations in both the House and Senate! Is it only the Republicans?

Or is it too much to expect from a LIBERAL?

Dodd and Conrad got sweetheart deals from AIG for their various home loans, not a peep from anyone! SHOCKING? I don't think so! It's just a game! Rangel forgets to pay Income Taxes on slum lord property, and vacation property! It goes on and on! Yet you BITCH only about the Republicans?

Could it possibly be that because the Republicans are the ONLY ones to do anything in Government, they can rightly expect to get the blame?

WOW! A do nothing party suddenly in charge of EVERYTHING! Let's see how this works out, shall we?

Krugman reaches 27 years back to make his case, ignoring anything that was passed into law from, or before that point. This is a few years and IQ points past some of the posts in this blog from what I have seen.

Find something to support your personal opinion, don't look for opposing viewpoints, you've got a winner, naturally!

Give'em hell!

"...it finally came more than 25 years later, in the form of the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression."

Nothing yet approaches the Paul Volker recession (often incorrectly called the Carter recession"). But this one might. We have to get to double-digit unemployment, inflation and prime rate before that happens.
Sad to say, it might. Treasury Secretary Paulson under Bush should be hanged for his scare tactics and Obama is seriously mistaken if he thinks we can borrow/spend out of it.

Geez boys, it was a DEMOCRATIC congress that created the bill that Reagan signed. He could only go so far in making any needed changes, it needed to be signed!

It is called a VETO you retard.

It is called a VETO you retard.

A president won't generally sign a bill that he knows will be overridden by a 2/3 majority in congress. It makes him look bad.

Krugman is a joke, who blew his credibility long ago. The only reason he is listened to is simply because is so far to the Left. If a right-wing economist tried spewing the lies, personal attacks, distortions, etc...Krugman does, their career would end.

As for the Nobel Prize, folks, in economics, the Nobel Prize is a joke. Many have called for the abolishment of the Nobel Prize in economics even, because it is too inaccurate of a science.

Most economists are a form of applied mathematician. The economists who saw this crises coming from a mile away, in the greatest number, were the Austrian School economists, the folks whose ideology (deregulation, limited government) is being blamed for this current crises.

As for Krugman, his specialties are trade economics, currencies, and economic geography. He has done nothing in macroeconomics.

You might as well have an electrical engineer who designs radar systems commenting on how to build nuclear reactors. Sure, both are fields of engineering, but both are vastly different. Same with the different fields of economics.

The policies Krugman recommends are what almost destroyed New York City during the 1970s (it almost went bankrupt), have now destroyed California, the world's 7th largest economy, are destroying the United Kingdom, and are going to wreak havoc with all of America eventually at this current rate of spending.

As for whether "Reagan caused it," that is grossly over-simplifying the crises. This crises had many causes, deregulation probably being the least.

Good grief, the most UNREGULATED financial institutions, the private equity funds and hedge funds, are the only funds NOT asking for bailouts of help. They had nothing to do with causing the crises, they are just now suffering the effects.

The much more regulated investment banks, insurance companies, mortgage companies, commercial banks, and mutual funds, on the other hand, now they are all asking for help and in trouble.

As for the financial system prior to deregulation, that topic is like an entire book unto itself. Believe you me, our financial system was no wonderful thing prior to deregulation.

Regulation is needed, but OVER-REGULATION is also a problem.

As for the current regulations, they are plenty adequate, one problem is simply the regulatory agencies, like the SEC, lack the manpower to keep track of all the information put forward by the regulations. The SEC, as is, only has the ability to keep track of about 17% of the financial markets.

In other words, you can regulate until you're blue in the face, it wouldn't make a difference right now.

Regulation and oversight are two different things.

Deregulation INCREASED oversight of many corporations overall. It did not lead to a decrease in oversight, as many believe. The reality is that prior to deregulation, things like shareholder accountability and shareholder value were a complete and total joke.

Wall Street itself was a closed place to rich white guys. Deregulation is what helped LIBERALIZE Wall Street, where we saw the first African-American CEO and the first women on Wall Street and such. None of this would have been possible without deregulation.

Geez boys, it was a DEMOCRATIC congress that created the bill that Reagan signed. He could only go so far in making any needed changes, it needed to be signed!

#54 | Posted by dogen at 2009-06-01 11:37 PM

Translation: Reagan gets a pass.

It is called a VETO you retard.

#56 | Posted by 726 at 2009-06-02 08:00 AM

Translation: Democrats get a pass.

Aww, look at that, two retarded partisan peas in a pod.

Clinton was a felon or killed 7000 servicemen anytime Snippy.

#49 | Posted by northguy3

You twist the truth as usual. I pointed out that about 7,000 service men died during the clinton administration. I never said he killed them. clinton did lie to the grand jury and if that makes him a fellon or not, I don't know.

Try posting a little truth sometime.

Reagan Did What? The Fantasies of Paul Krugman

lewrockwell.com

Reagan Did What? The Fantasies of Paul Krugman

lewrockwell.com

#61 | Posted by IraqiBukkake at 2009-06-02 01:24 PM

Great article.

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