Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Saturday, May 23, 2009

"Former Vice President Dick Cheney intervened in CIA Inspector General John Helgerson's investigation into the agency's use of torture against "high-value" detainees"

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Sad chapter in America's history. Sighhhhhhh

Larry

Need a hanky, Larry?

Sad chapter in America's history. Sighhhhhhh

Larry

#1 | Posted by LarryMohr

It is a sad day when people like you believe everything you read from ANY source.

I have never heard of this rag.

I have never heard of this rag.

That's not saying much. You'd never heard of McClatchy, either.

You mean this dead guy?

farm1.static.flickr.com

Cheney's Position:

"In public discussion of these matters, there has been a strange and sometimes willful attempt to conflate what happened at Abu Ghraib prison with the top secret program of enhanced interrogations. At Abu Ghraib, a few sadistic prison guards abused inmates in violation of American law, military regulations, and simple decency. For the harm they did, to Iraqi prisoners and to America's cause, they deserved and received Army justice. And it takes a deeply unfair cast of mind to equate the disgraces of Abu Ghraib with the lawful, skillful, and entirely honorable work of CIA personnel trained to deal with a few malevolent men. "

Here is the crux of the hypocrisy and illogic of Cheney's position.

First he attempts to claim that AG was outside of legal and acceptable practices used for the so called high value terrorist (when in fact they are terrorist suspects).

Well in reality the pentagon, presumably at the direction of the WH, Geoffrey Miller incharge of detention facilities in Iraq.

en.wikipedia.org(general)

Geoffrey D. Miller (born c. 1949) is a retired United States Army Major General who commanded the US detention facilities at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba and Iraq. Detention facilities in Iraq under his command included Abu Ghraib prison, Camp Cropper and Camp Bucca. He is also famous for training soldiers in "improved interrogation techniques".[

On November 2002, Miller was given command of Joint Task Force Guantanamo Bay (GTMO), which runs the US detention facilities known as Camp X-Ray, Camp Delta and Camp Echo in Cuba. Miller claimed that two-thirds of the 600 prisoners had confessed to being involved in terrorism and were giving "actionable intelligence." However, instances of abuse such as beatings, using attack dogs to intimidate prisoners, and other abuses at Guantanamo Bay were alleged to have occurred under Miller's command.

On September 22, 2003, Miller ordered the arrest of James Yee, an Army captain who served as a chaplain for the Muslim prisoners at Guantanamo. Miller accused Yee of stealing classified documents and smuggling them out of the prison, but those charges were later dropped. It is believed that no evidence of espionage was found, but records on the case have been sealed.

For a period of time Miller exercised his right to protect himself from self-incrimination.[5] According to the New York Times: "He changed his position when the US Senate Armed Services Committee delayed his retirement until he was more forthcoming."

In May 2006 Miller testified at the courts martial of the Abu Ghraib dog handlers that his instructions on the use of dogs had been misunderstood.[6] Miller testified that he instructed that dogs should be used "only for custody and control of detainees". Miller's testimony was directly contradicted, the next day, by Lieutenant Colonel Jerry Phillabaum, the commander of Abu Ghraib's Military Police detachment.

THerefore, I believe it patently false to claim that AG was not a direct result of administration attempts to expand the enhanced interrogation techniques to Iraq.

Secondly the basic logic and premise behind the used of enhanced interrogation techniques just fails completely.

the use is justified to gain intelligence-Cheney gain "The intelligence officers who questioned the terrorists can be proud of their work and proud of the results, because they prevented the violent death of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of innocent people."

so if the use of enhanced interrogation is justified to save innocent lives, then how come it was not justified in IRaq? THe goal was to prevent terrorists attacks that were killing thousands of innocent lives. So why was AG so wrong?

The is no logic to his argument.

The is no logic to his argument.

"We don't need no stinkin' logic. We're under the bed wetting ourselves becausethe muslimoids are gonna steal our cookies but Uncle Dick will save us, if we give him half of the cookies in a no bid contract."

The Right

Well, that's a good thing, that they were unstinting in attempting to secure information that would better enable us to interdict attempts to harm us.

There seem to be some members of the lunatic left, who suffer so from anomie, that they are completely detached from any sense of belonging or attachment to their own people. These toons are more concerned with the fate of people who are dedicated to harming us, than to securing our safety as best we can.

Their values and priorities would rather have a roomful of our people dead than have information extracted from someone trying to kill us. Are you people truly that daft? You are mad. Lunatics.

That would be okay if in the process you did not endanger our lives by restraining our efforts. If you want to atone for what you perceive as "sins," why not go whole hog, seppoku, hara kiri. But only do yourself in. Don't jeopardize the rest of us.

One HUGE problem there Johnson. Killing the detainee that the CIA suspected may have had some info only guarantees they will never get what they seek.

You can salute them for their enthusiasm. I question how many Americans die because of it. How many attacks could have been stopped had information held by those tortured to death by the CIA not been forever lost?

There are other ways to get the information and interrogators tell us that over and over again.

Well Hotsauce, I suspect that the reason that there was resort to harsher measures was that the "other ways" proved ineffective in this case. Step one to Step two. Nobody's perfect. We do the best we can. But we continue to strive for zero defects. We ended up no worse off than we would have been if we had not tried.

Welp Johnson isn't an American. A US citizen maybe but not an American.

Larry

So now Larry is the sole arbiter of who's an American or not. How did you get into this lofty position, Larry? Were you appointed? Elected? Divinely seated?

So now Larry is the sole arbiter of who's an American or not. How did you get into this lofty position, Larry? -- #12 | Posted by goatman

Damn fine job, Larry. Consider yourself appointed.

So now Larry is the sole arbiter of who's an American or not. How did you get into this lofty position, Larry? Were you appointed? Elected? Divinely seated?

Posted by goatman at 2009-05-24 09:58 PM | Reply

When a person advocates for torture something that the United States has always condemned and prosecuted then that person ain't an American. Torture is a nonAmerican value

Larry

When a person advocates for torture something that the United States has always condemned and prosecuted then that person ain't an American.

I consider sex with quadropeds unAmerican. Does that mean that people who advoacate this are not Americans also?

I consider sex with quadropeds unAmerican

What about lubing up a PVC pipe, sticking it up your ass, and letting the quadruped crawl into your intestine?

Awwwwwwwwwwwww is Goatman trying for the cheap points again?? I hear WallGreens has buy four cheap points get 5 free. Maybe You should invest in some Goatman.

Larry

Awwwwwwwwwwwww is Goatman trying for the cheap points again??

OK, how about this one, Larry:

I think that people who are so ignorant of the operation of their government that they believe they have only one senator representing them are unAmerican. This is especially true when a dozen links proving otherwise have been presented and that person still thinks he has only one senator. I think that's unAmerican as hell. That person might be a citizen of the US, but he is not American.

I'll bet Johnson at least remembers his 8th civics class unlike you, Larry.

What about lubing up a PVC pipe, sticking it up your ass, and letting the quadruped crawl into your intestine?

Well, I guess that's OK.

Somewhere, Richard Gere is relieved...

#20 LOL

I'll bet Johnson at least remembers his 8th civics class unlike you, Larry.

I'm no fan of Larry's over-the-top liberalism or Johnson's sesquipedalian manifestations of profound ignorance.

Larry is detached from reality on some issues, and Johnson's continued existence benefits society about as much as a quadruped lodged in our rectums.

Sources quoted by The New York Times said "the report expressed skepticism about the Bush administration view that any ban on cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment under the treaty does not apply to CIA interrogations because they take place overseas on people who are not citizens of the United States.

Cheney thought torture was only torture when it happened to Americans on American soil?

Wow, that goes well beyond arrogance and makes Cheney out to be a total psychopath.

Path? Hell, he's a psycho-boulevard.

A freakin' psycho-freeway!

Blocking an supposedly independent investigation into deaths which occured due to Cheney's torture program?

Politicising the IG's office to stop justice from being done?

That guy so needs to see the inside of a jail cell.

Be Well.

...makes Cheney out to be a total psychopath. -- #23 | Posted by dethspud

This is news?

The best-established measure of psychopathy, the Psychopathy Checklist-Revised (PCL-R)... comprises at least three overlapping, but separable, constellations of traits: interpersonal deficits (such as grandiosity, arrogance and deceitfulness),...
Check.
...affective deficits (lack of guilt and empathy, for instance),
Check.
and impulsive and criminal behaviors... www.scientificamerican.com
Ahem.

Cross-posting the following...for great justice!

Does waterboarding have long-term physical effects?

During waterboarding, some of this water can flow through the nostrils and into the lungs, Keller explains. Water in the lungs, especially if it's dirty, can cause potentially deadly pneumonia or pleuritis, an inflammation of the lung lining...

...But don't underestimate how tightly intertwined the physical and psychological experiences of waterboarding are, Keller notes. Since it mimics the terrifying sensation of drowning, it triggers the release of stress hormones called catecholamines that can cause heart rate and blood pressure to soar, potentially setting the stage for heart attack in a person with underlying heart disease, he says...

...Waterboarding might be an ideal way to cause a fear-induced heart problem, Samuels speculates, pointing to experiments by the late Johns Hopkins psychobiologist Curt Richter, who in the 1950s created what he called a "swimming" jar for wild rats that was partially filled with water, allowing them to swim but not escape. The rats often died, and when Richter examined their hearts, he found damage suggesting stress hormones caused heart muscle cells to contract uncontrollably, Samuels explains.

"Make no mistake about it, [waterboarding] is a profoundly traumatic event," Keller says. "The physical and psychological and social aspects are all interdependent and feed off one another."

Check.
Check.
Ahem.

~Phoenix.

Ah, good to see that modern science is confirm Spud's laypotato diagnosis of Cheney as being THE poster child fer unwellness.

Be Well.

Spud was out moving Zig.

Did Spud miss anything?

Cross-posting the following...for great justice!

All blog space is belong to us!

...But don't underestimate how tightly intertwined the physical and psychological experiences of waterboarding are, Keller notes. Since it mimics the terrifying sensation of drowning, it triggers the release of stress hormones called catecholamines that can cause heart rate and blood pressure to soar, potentially setting the stage for heart attack in a person with underlying heart disease, he says.

Vancity was treated to a display of this condition a coupla weeks ago.

A natural predator of a group of gazelles was let into their cage by reality-impaired zoo officials. The gazelles started running from instinctual fear.

In a circle, of course, cos they was in a caged off area.

After three days of almost continuous running they all started dropping dead from wot was later confirmed as anxiety caused heart failure.

By the time the zoo officials understood wot was happening it was too late.

Organ failure they sed.

At least in that case there was no Dick Cheeny tellnig everyone that they died from an "undiagnosed previous condition".

Waterboarding was torture when the Greeks did it.

See also: the Romans, the Inquisition, the Russians, the Chinese, the Japanese, the Khmer Rogue et al.

Waterboarding was torture when the US did it too.

If someone does it tommorow it will still be torture.

Doesn't matter who does it, where in the world it happens or what nationality is being tortured.

At the pit of his black, cold heart Cheney knows this fer true.

Other people still need to learn it.

Be Well.

At least in that case there was no Dick Cheeny tellnig everyone that they died from an "undiagnosed previous condition".

Waterboarding was torture when the Greeks did it.

See also: the Romans, the Inquisition, the Russians, the Chinese, the Japanese, the Khmer Rogue et al.

Waterboarding was torture when the US did it too.

If someone does it tommorow it will still be torture.

Doesn't matter who does it, where in the world it happens or what nationality is being tortured.

At the pit of his black, cold heart Cheney knows this fer true.

Other people still need to learn it.

Be Well.

#27 | Posted by dethspud

so they do, but getting the truth can be a bit difficult in the western controlled media as you know ~ Dethie:>)

Here's something new for truthseekers that I found online tonite that will be a little shocking for the English speaking folks perhaps...

Media Lying over Churchill's Crimes

10. Churchill did not warn the Americans about the impending Pearl Harbor attack [the US authorities knew too but still did not warn their military personnel in Hawaii; see Rusbridger, J. and Nave, E. (1991), Betrayal at Pearl Harbor. How Churchill Lured Roosevelt into World War II (Summit, New York)].

11. Churchill hated Muslims, Arabs and Indians and remorselessly refused food to 6-7 million starving Indians, rejected Viceroy Wavell's pleas and blocked Canadian attempts at relief [6-7 million Indian deaths the British Bengali Holocaust death toll being numerically greater than the 5-6 million dead in the Nazi German Jewish Holocaust; see Moon, P. (1973) (editor), Wavell. The Viceroy's Journal (Oxford University Press, London) ].

12. Churchill rejected top scientific advice and supported bombing of German cities instead of protecting Atlantic convoys [0.16 million allied airmen killed; 0.6 million German civilians killed; Battle of the Atlantic almost lost; huge impact on famine in the Indian Ocean region due to halving of Allied shipping in 1943; see Snow, C.P. (1961), Science and Government (The New English Library, London); Behrens, C.B.A. (1955), Merchant Shipping and the Demands of War (Longman's, Green, London, 1955); Taylor, A.J.P. (1975), The Second World War. An Illustrated History (Hamish Hamilton, London) ].

13. Churchill acknowledged the crucial importance of maintaining Hindu-Muslim antipathy to preserve British rule [1 million dead and 18 million Muslim and Hindu refugees associated with India-Pakistan Partition in 1947].

14. Churchill over-rode strong British military objections in 1944 to decide on Partition of Palestine [in 1948....

~~~~~~~

"Another way of gauging this extraordinary English language holocaust ignoring and the ignoring of the immense crimes of Winston Churchill is to do a Yahoo Search for "Hitler's crimes" (25,000 results) and for "Churchill's crimes" (54 results, all but a mere several of these referring NOT to Winston Churchill but to horribly persecuted American Indian Professor Ward Churchill's "Crimes Against Humanity"."

mwcnews.net

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