Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Wednesday, May 20, 2009

Catholic priests and nuns terrorized thousands of Irish children in workhouse-style schools beginning in the 1930s, suffering chronic beatings, rapes and other abuse, according to a nine-year investigation that heard testimony from thousands of former students as well as from retired officials of church-run institutions.

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several Irish Catholic religious orders covered up six decades of brutality and molestation of boys and girls

Probably didn't know it was wrong. I mean there was no Papal Bull telling them what morality is...

It stands to reason that the US wasn't the only major abuse and molestation center. Spain and the other Catholic majority countries will sooner or later check in with their own stories.

Dear Pope, it is not natural to ask men and women to remain apart from the opposite sex and all that this implies. Let all members of all orders marry and have children. Let your children be normal God's children-Please.

It wasn't just religious center for kids that abused and molested and killed children.

It was secular organizations as well. And it's going on today in the public schools with special kids.

olrs.ohio.gov

And more--


Federal Report about this abuse and the CPS will not do anything to stop it because the public schools are sacrosanct.


www.mercurynews.com


What's alarming from the report, is "the number of children who have died when people have put them in restraints, what they call prone restraint, face down on the floor and having someone sit on them, being suffocated. Hundreds and hundreds of kids put in abusive situations, dangerous situations," Miller said. "This is a very serious problem."

Child advocates and lawyers for disabled students say the problem has grown as the number of cases of autism and other disabilities grows and more special education students enter traditional public schools. In January, the National Disability Rights Network issued a report documenting "dozens of cases of students abusively pinned to the floor for hours at a time, handcuffed, locked in closets, and subjected to other traumatizing acts of violence," the GAO report states.

Rhoda Benedetti, a Walnut Creek-based lawyer for disabled children, blames school districts that cut corners in crafting state-mandated support plans for special education students, then resorting to harsh discipline when the plan fails.

"I've had clients who were seven years old placed in closets, or their arms pinned down, where they restrain them on the ground and sit on them. I've had clients with severe bruising, black eyes occurring at schools and the schools having no explanation for it," she said. "And the authorities tend to look the other way. If a parent inflicted these kinds of damaging injuries to a disabled child, the parent would be investigated of course. But when a school does it, nobody does a thing."

According to the GAO report, 19 states have no laws or regulations related to the use of seclusion or restraint in schools. Seven place some restrictions on use of restraints but do not regulate seclusions. California sets limits on emergency interventions for special education students. Parents must be notified within a day and the school must file a report. Also, no technique can be used that is "designed or likely to cause physical pain" or denies sleep, food, water or bathroom access to the student. The student cannot be locked in seclusion.

Last year, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger vetoed a bill that would have tightly restricted use of restraint in schools and phased out seclusion by 2012, arguing that the bill could place more students at risk by tying the hands of school employees. Bruce Hunter of the American Association of School Administrators cautioned that outlawing such techniques outright could endanger students and teachers.

"If that were to happen and there were a dangerous situation where somebody was being attacked, we would have to call the cops and sit there and wait," said Hunter. "That's unreasonable."

Catholic priests and nuns terrorized thousands of children in workhouse-style schools beginning in the 1930sand the government did little to stop the chronic beatings, rapes and other abuse.

Must be Sharia Law.

Why are sadists attracted to religious offices?

Why are sadists attracted to religious offices?

I sometimes wonder if religion attracts disturbed people, who are seeking a haven among worshipers, immersing themselves among usually forgiving people, who believe in redemption?

"I sometimes wonder if religion attracts disturbed people"

#8 | Posted by Johnson at 2009-05-20 03:08 PM |Reply | Flag: Reads the DR.

more bad BS PR for the catholic church. u mean children were treated poorly in schools run by the state in the early 20th century??? u don't say!

thank you murphy for pointing out the CURRENT abuse in state run schools going on today.

so sad that a few bad apples can tarnish an entire religion because people can't look at the big picture. do a little research on the success of Jesuit schools in the US before you condemn an entire religion.

And it's going on today in the public schools with special kids.

Muffy-you got a link that separates out the public facilities and the private care facilities in that Ohio link? Or is it just "enhancing the bottom line" when privatized care facilities do it?

I think Jesus with an Irish accent explaining this mess and the church's official position would be quite funny.

Always after me lucky charms

Isn't is it strange all this started happening right around the time the car antenna was invented?

"And it's going on today in the public schools with special kids.

#3 | Posted by MURPHY at 2009-05-20 12:40 PM"

Now you're fucking with Nanc's head. She has one of those, you know. You'd think you'd be a little more sensitive.

The kids who were beaten probably didn't do their homework. Sometimes discipline must be imposed. Some of the children in US schools who refuse to learn could use a taste of the cane.

Catholicism is all but dead in Ireland now because of this. It's only the wannabe Irish in the US who still have the "faith".

www.chicagotribune.com

"The kids who were beaten probably didn't do their homework. Sometimes discipline must be imposed. Some of the children in US schools who refuse to learn could use a taste of the cane.

#16 | Posted by fwthom"

I can hear the Irish priest now, "Ah, little Bobby, ya colored outside the lines again. Time for another ass fucking."

that's right fwthom with your attitude toward discipline you wonder why your daughter is a crack whore and your son is a heroin addict?

your daughter is a crack whore and your son is a heroin addict?

I think its the other way around.

"your daughter is a crack whore and your son is a heroin addict?

I think its the other way around.

#19 | Posted by northguy3 "

My bad, I really hope I didn't offend Fwthom with my faux pas about his family.

Why are sadists attracted to religious offices?

In Dick Cheney's case, it was to dodge the draft.


Father Vyvian Oblivion --- Frank Zappa


Father vyvian o'blivion Resplendent in his frock
Was whipping up the batter For the pancakes of his flock
He was looking rather bleary He forgot to watch the clock

But the night before Behind the door
A leprechaun had stroked it

But the night before Behind the door
A leprechaun had slowly storked it
He slowly stroked it

But the night before Behind the door
A leprechaun had stroked his spot
He stroked his spot

It set him off in such a frenzy
He sang 'lock around the crock';

And he topped it off with a ...
And he topped it off with a ...
And he topped it off with a ...

Oo ooo ooo
Oo ooo ooo
Oo ooo ooo

As he stumbled on his ... He was delighted as it stiffened
And ripped right through his sock

oh st. alfonzo would be proud of me
He shouted down the block

Domine vobiscum
Et cum spiritu tuo
Don't you eat my sleazy pancakes
Just for saintly alphonzo

They're so light and fluffy white
We'll raise a fortune by tonight
They're so light and fluffy white
We'll raise a fortune by tonight
They're so light and fluffy brown
They're the finest in the town
They're so light and fluffy brown
They're the finest in the town

Good morning your highness
Oo oo ooo
Good gosh, you're sumptuous
Oo oo ooo


#15 | Posted by mOntecOre

has one of what?

Why are sadists attracted to religious offices?

My bad, thought that said attracted to religious orifices...

Always after me lucky charms

"Little boys are magically delicious."

The Pope

"has one of what?

#23 | Posted by nanc at 2009-05-20 07:13 PM"

I'm not mean like Kankles, so I'm not going to out your son as a retardo here on a public forum. Nope - won't do it, so don't ask me again.

"Little boys are magically delicious."

The Pope

Silly prosecutor... dicks are for kids!

"Silly prosecutor... dicks are for kids!"

Posted by ZombieHunter at 2009-05-20 08:17 PM


FF!!!!!!!!!!!!

Religion has nothing to do with it. Reform schools pretty much uniformly are havens for child abuse, regardless of whether they're religious or secular.

Link

Link

Link


There was a study at Stanford in the 1970s about prisons and power that pretty much shows things like this are inevitable. They designated one group of students prisoners, and another guards, and put them in a "prison" environment. Within days, the students designated as guards had become so abusive and sadistic the exercise had to be cancelled. Normal, young adults.

"Where's your god now?"

upload.wikimedia.org

Stanford was just copying Milgram.

en.wikipedia.org

The Milgram experiment has been repeated many times. It's actually much different from the Stanford experiment.

Stanford

Let's give 'em Vouchers so people will send their kids to them.
That way they can be PAID for abusing kids.

Your tax dollars at werk!


The Catholic Church is investigating a miracle.....
apparently there is an Irish boy who was not abused.

The Catholic Church is investigating a miracle.....
apparently there is an Irish boy who was not abused.

I heard of another supposed miracle... a bishop walked in on a priest diddling an altar boy, but the altar boy's asshole bore not a single stretch. The priest said that he was delivering the holy spirit into the child.

After much deliberation, the Pope decided this was not a miracle since the priest had used lube and was not very well endowed...

Seems this website needs a daily "evil Catholics" story. This is exactly what drove many of those decades-long loyal Catholic Democrats to vote for Reagan. As I've written several times here: the anti-religious among progressives lose elections for us, and I am sick of it.

The kids who were beaten probably didn't do their homework. Sometimes discipline must be imposed. Some of the children in US schools who refuse to learn could use a taste of the cane.

#16 | Posted by fwthom at 2009-05-20 06:23 PM

Giving any child of mine a "taste of the cane" would result in the cane givers serious beating. I have no sense of humor on this matter and would repond violently-extremely violently. I literally get pissed off thinking it could happen. Teachers, I am far from alone. Use such actions at your own very personal risk.

Yes, lets ignore all stories that expose the Catholic Church for what it is. Move along folks, nothing to see here....oh look, Obama was born in Kenya.

Obama was born in Kenya.

#38 | Posted by LetUsPrey


Tongue in cheek or?

A friend of mine from Maghera, County Derry, Northern Ireland, went to an all-boy Catholic school and has told me many stories about the daily beating they got from the priests and nuns.

I asked him once why his parents didn't step in to protect their children (as we in America would do) and he explained that if he came home and complained about a priest, he'd get another whipping because, in the eyes of his Catholic parents, the priests were above reproach and therefore he must be lying.

Physical abuse was second only to the mental abuse doled out in this particular Catholic school as they attempted to mold the boys into future priests and filled their heads with all kinds of hellish nonsense and sexual guilt.

My friend went on to become academically successful with a PhD from Kings College, Cambridge University, but he's never been able to overcome the sexual guilt that has interfered with any wholesome relationship he's tried to have with a woman.

In short, he's one messed up dude.


"Yes, lets ignore all stories that expose the Catholic Church for what it is."

To any thinking person, the abuse has nothing to with the Church, but with the structure of the prisons-for-children that are called "Reform Schools". Regardless of whether they're secular or religion based- and there is a similar story playing out in Florida that involves a state-run facility and another that occurred in Missouri involving Baptists- the nature of this kind of institution inevitably leads to abuse.

The "sin" of the Church in this case isn't the abuse, as horrific as that is. It's the way they handled it, such as not release the names of those involved.

As for exposing the church for "what it is", who says that this is "what it is"? Most Catholics have wonderful experiences with the faith. Most Priests, Nuns, and Brothers are good people who server their congregations faithfully.

Some people need to examine themselves, and figure out why they're so hateful and bigoted.

It's true that there are good and bad people in every organization -- but it's when an organization actively works to cover up what its bad members are doing when one can say -- this is a bad organization. Each time an accused child molester was moved to another church - disregarding the safety of children - in favor of covering up an evil, it exposed the church for "what it is."

Pudge is right. What if this website had an almost daily story on a crooked rabbi? Wouldn't that be anti-semetic? I would say so. It would be like looking for only moles on Marilyn Monroe's body. Religions are beautiful things. Just visit anyplace religion has been suppressed or disregarded and tell me you don't see the difference.

So celebacy produces angry, abusive, sadists???

Whodathunkit????

#43 | Posted by Diablo at 2009-05-21 09:07 AM | Reply |

Until you admit that there is just as much bad that comes from religion as there is good, your head is in the sand.

If there are enough crooked rabbis to make a daily story of it, go for it. The same goes for priests, imams, etc.

Your attempt at giving these fucks a free pass is contemptible.

"""religions are beautiful things"""

So is insanity, from a certain angle.

Until you admit that there is just as much bad that comes from religion as there is good, your head is in the sand.

If you need to believe that then go ahead, your head is in the sand.

Some people need to examine themselves, and figure out why they're so hateful and bigoted.

don't hold your breath waiting for these people to do that.

Okay. Here's a link to a story about abused Jewish children, and gee, no arrests? No huge civil suits and no story on the Retort? BTW, I never gave "these fucks a free pass" and would appreciate a little accuracy in your responses.

www.ynetnews.com

"Until you admit that there is just as much bad that comes from religion as there is good"
There is no objective means to support a statement like that.

More than 3/4 of Americans, for example, consider themselves religious. Presumably Americans aren't masochists who enjoy suffering, so the only reasonable conclusion is- religion brings them something positive in their life.

And I haven't seen anybody in this discussion suggest that perpetrators of crime or those individuals who cover it up should get a "free pass".

To any thinking person, the abuse has nothing to with the Church,

Bullshit, pudge is wrong, this has everything to do with the catholic church.

The abusers are still in the church, protected by the church and therefore it is condoned by the church. The catholic church not only protects these abusers but hides them and moves them around so it happens over and over again.

This should be a daily thread and should be in every news print until the church and those who support the church decide to do something about it. Until then, the church and those who support it are just as guilty as those who abuse.

Pudge,

You're being stupid, it isn't about their good, it is about their abuse and the fact that people like you continue to defend the organization knowing full well these abusers are still in the church abusing. In this case you are worse, you KNOW and do nothing but defend........are you an abuser?

This should be a daily thread

It is already.

The abusers are still in the church, protected by the church...

where? who?

seriously. I want to avoid such places.

Whip me, I'm Irish!

"To any thinking person, the abuse has nothing to with the Church,
Bullshit, pudge is wrong, this has everything to do with the catholic church."
Nope. As I explained, it has to do with the Reform School environment itself.

Unless you believe that child abuse (and child murder) is a product of State government, or the Baptist Church.

As I already explained,

The "sin" of the Church in this case isn't the abuse, as horrific as that is. It's the way they handled it, such as not release the names of those involved.

And to Moneywar,

"You're being stupid, it isn't about their good, it is about their abuse and the fact that people like you continue to defend the organization knowing full well these abusers are still in the church abusing."

And the vast majority- more than 99%, according to SNAP- of Catholic priests have never and will never harm a child. There's never been any statistical demonstration that a Catholic priest is more likely to molest a child than any other adult male.

Stomp your feet and spit your wrath all you like, it doesn't make your arguments any more reasonable.

There's never been any statistical demonstration that a Catholic priest is more likely to molest a child than any other adult male.

But a Catholic priest is a highly trusted member of society and has a much greater opportunity to molest a child and get away with it. And, when a Priest molests a child and gets caught, the Church has demonstrated an institutional commitment to deflect and avoid the problem -- from the Vatican on down.

Now, bearing in mind that the Catholic church is an incredibly large and powerful organization with truly global reach... Well, if you can't see the problem, it's because you're willfully blind to it.

"There's never been any statistical demonstration that a Catholic priest is more likely to molest a child than any other adult male.
But a Catholic priest is a highly trusted member of society and has a much greater opportunity to molest a child and get away with it."
That's true also for school teachers, scout masters, soccer coaches, etc.

And you missed my point: child molestation by Catholic priests isn't particularly common. In percentages, it's about as common for a priest to molest a child as it is for a school teacher or accountant to molest a child. Molestation is not endemic to the priesthood.

"Now, bearing in mind that the Catholic church is an incredibly large and powerful organization with truly global reach..."

Which is why so much more attention is paid to instances of abuse by Catholic clergy than instances of abuse by Protestant clergy, for example.

"Well, if you can't see the problem, it's because you're willfully blind to it."

Of course I see the problem. But I see the ACTUAL problem, not the false problem that is often portrayed.

In the Irish abuse case (as in the Florida Reform School case and the Missouri Reform School case and pretty much every other Reform School), the problem isn't the particular group that was in charge (unless, again, you also believe Florida state workers or Missouri Baptists are inherently likely to abuse), it's the type of institution itself.

And, as I've elaborated pretty clearly, I DO take issue with the Church's handling of 61% of abuse cases that have been substantiated. The abuse is horrible, but it's no more horrible when a priest does it than when a soccer coach does it.

The Church's sin isn't the abuse- that's part of society. The Church's sin is in the way some higher-ups tried to protect the Church, rather than the victims.


I think that it is tragic that anyone can protect the monsters that can do this to a person, let alone a child. Here is a thought to ponder. Why is it that we do not take seriously other forms of abuse, besides sexual abuse, with regards to children? Scars from all kinds of abuse can last a lifetime. I think it is time that parents, and onlookers from the outside, realize that ALL abuse is wrong AND serious! And until people take responsibility and change their actions, children will continue to be hurt, in many, many ways.

My mother is a member on this site. I wont name her because it isnt my place. She was full of mental and emotional abuse that she drenched us with on a daily basis, and she has no idea what she did, and I honestly believe she never will. A day without unnecessary anger and thick tension was a day in someone elses life, and I know my siblings still deal with the damage she left to linger. To her credit, she has appologized. But if you dont take responsibility for your actions, and if you cant even admit to the fact that you were abusive, the appology is worthless.


My point is, those who partake in ANY form of abuse should be looked upon just as these sexual preditors are looked upon. The scars sometimes remain for life unless you figure out how to heal them, although many victims dont recover and often turn to drugs, alcohol, or turn into abusers themselves. My mother doesnt think she did a thing wrong, as do most abusers. Abusers are abusers, and thats how they should be looked upon, no matter what form!! And if you think what you say or do to a child will eventually "Wear off" or that it wont affect them in the long run, you are sorrily mistaken. If you are BLESSED to have a child in this world, you should do EVERYTHING to make that child's life a good one. Mistakes are inevitable, but abuse IS NEVER OK!

"The Church's sin isn't the abuse- that's part of society. The Church's sin is in the way some higher-ups tried to protect the Church, rather than the victims" - Pudge.


Well isn't that good to know from Pudge. Is he, perhaps, the Archbishop of London who seems to think the same way?

Pudge - If you think that the Church does not always put the Church ahead of every other consideration, you are not a good Catholic.

I think that it is tragic that anyone can protect the monsters that can do this to a person, let alone a child. Here is a thought to ponder. Why is it that we do not take seriously other forms of abuse, besides sexual abuse, with regards to children? Scars from all kinds of abuse can last a lifetime. I think it is time that parents, and onlookers from the outside, realize that ALL abuse is wrong AND serious! And until people take responsibility and change their actions, children will continue to be hurt, in many, many ways.

My mother is a member on this site. I wont name her because it isnt my place. She was full of mental and emotional abuse that she drenched us with on a daily basis, and she has no idea what she did, and I honestly believe she never will. A day without unnecessary anger and thick tension was a day in someone elses life, and I know my siblings still deal with the damage she left to linger. To her credit, she has appologized. But if you dont take responsibility for your actions, and if you cant even admit to the fact that you were abusive, the appology is worthless.


My point is, those who partake in ANY form of abuse should be looked upon just as these sexual preditors are looked upon. The scars sometimes remain for life unless you figure out how to heal them, although many victims dont recover and often turn to drugs, alcohol, or turn into abusers themselves. My mother doesnt think she did a thing wrong, as do most abusers. Abusers are abusers, and thats how they should be looked upon, no matter what form!! And if you think what you say or do to a child will eventually "Wear off" or that it wont affect them in the long run, you are sorrily mistaken. If you are BLESSED to have a child in this world, you should do EVERYTHING to make that child's life a good one. Mistakes are inevitable, but abuse IS NEVER OK!

"The Church's sin isn't the abuse- that's part of society. The Church's sin is in the way some higher-ups tried to protect the Church, rather than the victims"

Well isn't that good to know from Pudge. Is he, perhaps, the Archbishop of London who seems to think the same way?"
Which part of my statement could you possibly take issue with?

Certainly you can't deny that child abuse is part of a society. A horrible part of society, but a part of society.

Certainly you can't take issue with my being critical of those in the Church hierarchy who protected the abusers.

"If you think that the Church does not always put the Church ahead of every other consideration, you are not a good Catholic."

I'm always amazed at people who think the Catholic Church is a monolithic, Borg-like entity, rather than a collection of nearly one billion individuals.

"I'm always amazed at people who think the Catholic Church is a monolithic, Borg-like entity, rather than a collection of nearly one billion individuals."

With ONE PERSON and his Private Nation in control of the whole shebang, right.

And Pass the plate - it's COLLECTION time

Lest anyone repeat the canard we Catholics are either not doing anything about this or it is not as or MORE prevelant elsewhere (100 times more prevelant in public schools according to a Hofstra study) please read the report at the following link. It is sourced and does not at all cover up for clergy or seek to look the other way:
www.catholicleague.org

"I'm always amazed at people who think the Catholic Church is a monolithic, Borg-like entity, rather than a collection of nearly one billion individuals."
With ONE PERSON and his Private Nation in control of the whole shebang, right.

Yes, the Church has an elected leader. I'm not sure what that has to do with my point.

I imagine you're not certain what it has to do with my point either.
And Pass the plate - it's COLLECTION time
Another odd remark. Are you under the false impression that other churches, temples, mosques, etc. don't ask for contributions from members?

Are you under the false impression that parishes (like all other religious congregations, both Christian and non-Christian) don't have expenses which need to be met?

"Pudge" has been on the DR for three whole days...

(And next time there's an election for Pope, I hope they have a billion ballots ready)

or did I miss another "point"?

or did I miss another "point"?
Yes.

"And next time there's an election for Pope, I hope they have a billion ballots ready."

They have a billion ballots for Catholics. They are called "pews" and we sit in them. If we have a problem with the leadership, no one puts handcuffs on us.
If, however, others think religion is a fairy tale, please tell me how something came from nothing. The math equation is 1=0. "Rationalists" agree with that equation.

If we have a problem with the leadership, no one puts handcuffs on us.


Tell that to Joan of Arc and Martin Luther.

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