Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Tuesday, May 19, 2009

In what could prove to be a landmark discovery, a leading paleontologist said scientists have dug up the 47 million-year-old fossil of an ancient primate whose features suggest it could be the common ancestor of all later monkeys, apes and humans.

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up at a site on the moon, over by the smokestacks

Had trouble with middle school earth science, didn't you?

At least you aren't claiming that Satan planted them in Germany to trick us into doubting our faith in a two thousand year old book.

Had trouble with middle school earth science, didn't you?

#1 | Posted by silver_ironist


Having trouble with referencial DR humor, are you?

This link fully illustrates how similar this long tailed monkey creature is to a human being:

news.sky.com


I for a moment thought it was a person.

-Scientists won't necessarily agree about the details either. "Lemur advocates will be delighted, but tarsier advocates will be underwhelmed" by the new evidence, says Tim White, a paleontologist at the University of California, Berkeley. "The debate will persist."

Color me underwhelmed. Although it did seem to have Tosser's tail......

You poor deluded bastard.
Not very smart-even for an rtard....rtards don't believe in evolution-so they didn't find a conservitard "missing link"-because there isn't one!

Well then, How DID they come about, you ask?
Simple.

There was this Primeval Crow..at some point in Pre-history-he shit on a rock.
And before God could make it rain, and wash off the rock-the Sun hatched the first village idiot.

Although it did seem to have Tosser's tail......

#4 | Posted by Corky

I not in a position to agree or disagree with you Cork, as I am not myself familiar with Tosser's "tail".

This is a pretty big discovery.

Enjoy the day Science!!!

of course you are dear, now back into your cage...

The ark is not an issue as it only saved land based animals: the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky were fine when the Earth flooded, thus the large number of evil fish and ducks.

3 threads on this?

3 threads on this?

Be fruitful and multiply?

Many - do you have a problem with science making grand proclamations of epic discoveries, only to later be disproven as innacurate. Or do you suppose in today's info age it is the media/internet that is driving these grand proclamations. This ain't the missin link, Bro.
But it makes a good headline.
Its a fuckin monkey.
And according to Corky, it's a monkey that is reminiscent of a nude Tosser.


I only know what I read in Fredo's postcards from Paki.

I am glad you read them ... and dont just simply throw them in the trash!

Later the scientist also announced that Jesus is still fucking dead.

.

Ha ha!

"This ain't the missin link, Bro."

There's no such thing as a "missing link."

There is no one piece of information that will make or break evolution, just as there is no one piece of information that makes or breaks any scientific theory. Theories are held to be true because of the weight of ALL the evidence in support, not because there is ONE irrefutable fact in support of it.

This is just another rock on the mountain of evidence behind evolution.

I am interested to hear what the established fundamentalist excuse is once it emerges.

Will one of you thumpers please keep us informed of how you are instructed to respond to this news?

Thanks!

Will one of you thumpers please keep us informed of how you are instructed to respond to this news?


Thanks!


#12 | Posted by Manypaths


I haven't seen any "thumpers" on this thread yet ...
unless you mean a cute furry animal from a Disney cartoon, in that case, Corky has been checking in here.

3 threads on this?

Yeah, but Auntie wins the prize with this:

Were there two of these bastards on the ark?

Tarsiers

books.google.com

ELCID is like many today, he's actually proud of his ignorance. He ain't one of them there intulextules.


Cool, a mention from Dumbo.


"It would seem that this extraordinary fossil "is important in being exceptionally well preserved and providing a much more complete understanding of the paleobiology" of a primate from the Eocene (tr. "Dawn of the Present") period, that this fossil is from "a transitional species showing characteristics from both the non-human (prosimians and lemurs) and human (anthropoids, monkeys, apes and man) evolutionary lines," and that it follows from this that Darwinius masillae could actually be from a "stem group" from which higher primates evolved.

Whilst the research team involved state that they "are not advocating this" Dr. Philip Gingerich, a leading American primate specialist based at the University of Michigan, president of the American Paleontological Society and co-author of the Darwinius masillae study, went so far as to state that:-
"This discovery brings a forgotten group into focus as a possible ancestor of higher primates."

Prior to the discovery of the Darwinius masillae as a possible missing link fossil paleolontological opinion had featured a division of views about whether we might be descended from the same primate ancestors as the lemurs or whether another small primate family, Tarsiers, - the tarsiidae -, were more closely related to ourselves.

It may be that this specimen of Darwinius masillae will help to settle that debate. A particularly important clue may arise from the very completeness of this fossil if researchers are ultimately able to discern whether or not this fossil was of a creature that had a "wet" nose.

Lemurs differ from monkeys, apes, and humans in having "wet" noses. "

www.age-of-the-sage.org


ManyWetNoses

This Tosser monkey would seem to be higher up the tree than the coveted "missing link".

What an absolutely fascinating find! One less "missing link"

Can't believe they were able to keep this find under wraps for the last 2 years.

...Prof. Gingerich said he had twice examined the adapid skeleton, which was "a complete, spectacular fossil." The completeness of the preserved skeleton is crucial, because most previously found fossils of ancient primates were small finds, such as teeth and jawbones.

It was found in the Messel Shale Pit, a disused quarry near Frankfurt, Germany. The pit has long been a World Heritage Site and is the source of a number of well-preserved fossils from the middle Eocene epoch, some 50 million years ago.

Prof. Gingerich said several scientists, including Jorn Hurum of Norway's National History Museum, had inspected the fossil with computer tomography scanning, a sophisticated X-ray technique that can provide detailed, cross-sectional views. Dr. Hurum declined to comment....

congrats Johnson you are threadmaker number 4 on this.

Not the sharpest crayon in the box.


This so-called missing link is supposedly a link between small primates and apes, not apes and humans, btw. Just so the ever so intelligent ones among us don't get confused.

This so-called missing link is supposedly a link between small primates and apes, not apes and humans, btw.

Correct. Please see Murphy for some evidence of the latter.

This so-called missing link is supposedly a link between small primates and apes, not apes and humans, btw. Just so the ever so intelligent ones among us don't get confused...

#19 | Posted by Corky at 2009-05-19 12:55 PM

True, but I think the term "missing link" is best dealt with here in the article --

...The discovery has little bearing on a separate paleontological debate centering on the identity of a common ancestor of chimps and humans, which could have lived about six million years ago and still hasn't been found. That gap in the evolution story is colloquially referred to as the "missing link" controversy.

In reality, though, all gaps in the fossil record are technically "missing links" until filled in, and many scientists say the term is meaningless....

I can only imagine that there are at most 2 degrees of separation between you and that monkey DANNI. Actually, this monkey became extinct because it feel victim to "monkey business" -too bad he was not part of a union yet - right comrade DANNI?

Well I'll be a monkeys Uncle!!

The gods must be laughing?

FOOLS

THEY WILL NEVER find the missing link looking where they are looking

THE MISSING LINK is very hard to locate because it is currently hidden .....in exile...from our sight

www.drudge.com


not sure this is the link to conservatives though.


Posted by ELCIDCE90

It's not.

The opposable thumb is a dead giveaway.

-Please see Murphy for some evidence of the latter.

Are you saying Murph doesn't have a wet nose?

So she's not a dog, eh? That's damn white of ya.

I'm always suspicious about these claims.. it's been made before, and always its wrong..

Believe what you want, but don't swallow these claims without investigation.. the press always hypes these "great discoveries," and as often as not, they turn out to be bogus..

Wishful thinking and dreaming is too much a part of investigative paleontology..

I'm always suspicious about these claims.. it's been made before, and always its wrong.. - Posted by nmg_no

Talk about 'Missing Link'. Feel free to provide one.

Wishful thinking and dreaming is too much a part of investigative paleontology..

No, wishful thinking and dreaming is what Religion is all about. And not a fucking ounce more.

Stay in denial. We'll continue to point and laugh.

Everyone is missing the really big question:

Did he too taste like chicken?

On a related note, what kind of wine best goes with eating an ancestor?

what kind of wine best goes with eating an ancestor?

What color was the ancestor?


Red wine with White Ancestors
White wine with Black and some Hispanic Ancestors
A Blush goes great with Asian Ancestors and most other Hispanic Ancestors

This is per the Jeffery Dhamer Guide to Fine Dining and Family Reunions

If I dig up a monkey skull, spray it with an old can of carbon 14 paint and declare it the missing linK, will I be famous too?

Famous World traveler Thom

"spray it with an old can of carbon 14 paint"

What's next? A can of Wup-Ass (4.bp.blogspot.com)?


If I dig up a monkey skull, spray it with an old can of carbon 14 paint and declare it the missing linK, will I be famous too?


#42 | Posted by fwthom at

Nope, you will still be a fucking idiot with paint on your nostrils.

#42 | Posted by fwthom

this fossil is from "a transitional species showing characteristics from both the non-human (prosimians and lemurs) and human (anthropoids, monkeys, apes and man) evolutionary lines," and that it follows from this that Darwinius masillae could actually be from a "stem group" from which higher primates evolved.

I think the VERY exciting news in that it is a transitional species. You know, the one that doesn't exist according to creationists. They insist that there are NO MISSING LINKS. www.icr.org And are using that in testimony www.discovery.org and in their WEDGE STRATEGY. en.wikipedia.org

www.icr.org


So here you go Bible Thumpers. Get to the debunking! Another hole just got plugged in the "God of the gaps".

This is an extremely important find and if it does not turn out to be some elaborate hoax it should send a chill through the spines of the Creationists.

"Religion is Bunk" Thomas Edison

-We'll continue to point and laugh.

Living in a house of mirrors will do that.


First we have to find out if it had a wet nose, like Thom.


www.drudge.com

"If I dig up a monkey skull, spray it with an old can of carbon 14 paint and declare it the missing linK, will I be famous too?"
#42 | Posted by fwthom


I was looking for some of that carbon 14 paint but couldn't find any at Home Depot. Should I try Lowes or Ace?

i'm not sure there are enough posts up on this subject.

"If I dig up a monkey skull, spray it with an old can of carbon 14 paint and declare it the missing linK, will I be famous too?"
#42 | Posted by fwthom

Also if you want to be famous you will need to find a fake way to agatize the skull (replace the bone with minerals). That takes several thousand to several million years depending on conditions. Hope you have a lot of time on your hands.

What are the Creationist saying about this or are their heads to deep up Jesus' ass to be heard?

This is just another rock on the mountain of evidence behind evolution.


From nothing to human. Evolution proven.
We've come full circle.

#53 | Posted by Manypaths


If you weren't such a silly angry fuck, tripping over your own twisted angst and confusion, you would have at least scanned the article before blathering on in the thread .....the "missing link" is not even claimed by the discoverers to be a link betwen ape and human, it is claimed to be a link earlier on in the evolutionary tree between small primates and the great apes as a general class.
A creationist should not give a rats ass about this article, really.
But you are getting some sort of thereapy out of yelling stupid inquiries at the audience that has to deal with you here.
SO I THOUGHT I would help you out with an answer


There are many paths to being a complete asshole. This one is bi-partisan.


We are missing our tails??

"We are missing our tails??"

Not completely. We still carry around vestigial tails. Kind of like our molars, the few who can wiggle their ears, that sort of thing.

But check out your neighborhood. Things could be different. Who knows? Tails might abound.


What are the Creationist saying about this or are their heads to deep up Jesus' ass to be heard?

#53 | Posted by Manypaths

OK, I read it again and still have no idea why you went off on a rant about Missing Links in relation to that post.

But whatever. It looks like I got my answer.

"We are missing our tails??

#57 | Posted by MURPHY "

Don't know about that, but your husband says he's not getting any tail.

"We are missing our tails??" - Murphy

Don't worry, Murphy, yours is still there.

Sorry, sometimes it is just too irrisistable.

Since FREDO posted the weekly "missing link/evolution is real" story I haven't seen so many libs walking around with their tiny boners since the coronation of the "Magic Negro."


"We are missing our tails??" - Murphy


Don't worry, Murphy, yours is still there.


Sorry, sometimes it is just too irrisistable.

#61 | Posted by AILtd


Murphy's tail is irresistable ?

Hmmm .. i kinda thought maybe ......


This is the second Robert Byrd thread in two days.


Since FREDO posted the weekly "missing link/evolution is real" story I haven't seen so many libs walking around with their tiny boners since the coronation of the "Magic Negro."

#62 | Posted by fwthom



Up to now I never jumped into a creation/evolution thread in the whole time I've been here.
I didn't think this article would get any pull. But it got significant reaction and let me just say that creation / evolution ...who gives a shit.
Me personally I could give a rats ass. I'll find out the answer to that when I am worm food.
this whole issue is not tied to my political beliefs like it seems to be for a lot of people.
But I guess it comes down to people caring what is teached in the schools. (don't like the word "taught" )
I say, in the schools, leave it alone, or give each side equal time. If you're gonna talk evolution, you can also cover the history of religion in an objective way and put forth the belief structure of creationism, objectively.

Yaaawwwwwnnnn!


It took then 2 years to work up the courage to try and pass this one off ass the new missing link. I am underwhelmed to say the least. Next, they will be telling us that we have gill slits during the early formation as a fetus.

Evolution is nothing more than a theory. Next thing you know they will be saying that gravity is a fact.

img507.imageshack.us

"If you're gonna talk evolution, you can also cover the history of religion in an objective way and put forth the belief structure of creationism, objectively."

OK, then we should have them teach about the fact that the people who wrote the bible believed the Earth was flat and the center of the universe.
If we taught the truth about what the ancient peoples who began religions actually believed it would cause students to laugh at their own religions as well as everyone elses.
I think the less said about religion the better...for the religions.

you can also cover the history of religion in an objective way and put forth the belief structure of creationism, objectively

I am all for that.

Religion would be gone within 2 generations.

Let's teach the kids the true history of religion and quit lying to them about it every Sunday.

I guess I'm just a bigger dick than you Danni.

I don't get all of this buzz about "THE" missing link. If the theory of evolution is such a slam-dunk -- and before you all go about proving evolution by going ape-shit, I'm not necessarily espousing anti-evolution beliefs, just intelligent consideration -- it seems like there should be transitional steps everywhere for a large variety of species - gradations of links forming coherent chains of development.

The fact that it's taken 200 years to find a deformed monkey that can be called "THE MISSING LINK" speaks to a paucity of data. The fact that there are multitudes of "missing links" should be disconcerting.

"it seems like there should be transitional steps everywhere for a large variety of species - gradations of links forming coherent chains of development."

There are!

en.wikipedia.org

"I for a moment thought it was a person." #3 | Posted by Fredo_C

Yes, I know some Democrats that look just like that. They even voted in the last election.

The fact that it's taken 200 years to find a deformed monkey that can be called "THE MISSING LINK" speaks to a paucity of data. The fact that there are multitudes of "missing links" should be disconcerting.

Are you sure you understand how precise the conditions have to be in order for something to be preserved for 47 million years?

Are you aware how this step fits into the chain of steps that have already been discovered including Lucy?

I can understand your questioning but don't allow your ignorance to get in the way of the scientific evidence.

If all you libtards can be tricked by Obama so easily it is no wonder that you will latch on to this.


If all you libtards can be tricked by Obama so easily it is no wonder that you will latch on to this.

#76 | Posted by buzkiller at 2009-05-19 03:55 PM | Reply | Flag:www.hollow-hill.com">Here's Your Flag!

Dammit!

Well basically I was just making fun of how big a fucking cry baby you are.

That's all. Nothing new.......

"Stay in denial. We'll continue to point and laugh."
#38 | Posted by Manypaths

"O..O..O..O..O..Ah..Ah..Ah" I am laughing with you.

"Gravity as a fact."

God turned off the gravity switch during the "Big Gang Bang" or the whole thing would have collapsed, so watch out or He may turn it off again.

Posted by fwthom

Adults with imaginary friends. How sad.

They tell us that
We lost our tails
Evolving up
From little snails
I say its all
Just wind in sails
Are we not men?
We are devo!
Were pinheads now
We are not whole
Were pinheads all
Jocko homo
Are we not men?
D-e-v-o
Monkey men all
In business suit
Teachers and critics
All dance the poot
Are we not men?
We are devo!
Are we not men?
D-e-v-o
God made man
But he used the monkey to do it
Apes in the plan
Were all here to prove it
I can walk like an ape
Talk like an ape
I can do what a monkey can do
God made man
But a monkey supplied the glue
We must repeat
O.k. lets go!

Looks like Satan has been up to his old tricks again...

He must have got tired of losing fiddle contests.

"I haven't seen any thumpers on this thread yet...."

Sounds like you want to rub someone's nose in something, you delightful person you.

Evolution is a convenient strawman regularly knocked down by certain materialists and theists.

Far more interesting to debate whether the first obelisk in "2001" was enhancing intelligence or providing souls.

"Far more interesting to debate whether the first obelisk in "2001" was enhancing intelligence or providing souls."

Chew on this....

"The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion."
- Arthur C. Clarke

"Highjacking of morality by religion...."

Clarke wrote more than one book incoporating Christian themes. "Childhood's End" is one.

Then it's always interesting to note "2001" can be read as Genesis skating towards Revelations at the speed of light.

As for "highjacking", I'd be interested to consider any principle of morality distinct from the Christian corpus dervied entirely by rational means, so-called.

Put more simply, why HAS science relied on religion for moral structure? Is it because the scientists aren't interested, or there isn't really all that much more to say?

If there isn't all that much more left to say---Well, THAT would be interesting, wouldn't it?

The fact that it's taken 200 years to find a deformed monkey that can be called "THE MISSING LINK" speaks to a paucity of data. The fact that there are multitudes of "missing links" should be disconcerting.

#72 | Posted by jnelson at 2009-05-19 03:40 PM

Does it hurt being that stupid? Do you have any concept of what happens to living tissue (or anything living OR nonliving for that matter) after 47 MILLION years? Do you know what it takes to find these things after 47 MILLION YEARS? Much less find a FULL SKELETON after 47 MILLION YEARS. (even this one was crushed to the thickness of a credit card.

47 millions years from now some lifeform might be arguing about whether Homo Sapiens even existed here on Earth and how come no one has ever found any evidence of one yet.

But I'm sure all will be explained to the faithful in the Gospels of the Flying Spaghetti Monster blogs.discovermagazine.com (blessed be His holy sauce!).



Sure, DONNER, Spaghetti Monster writings will describe past existence of the fabulous humans and the materialist Martians will say they're full of it because they've never seen a human themselves. I am quite sure this will happen.

Questions will be raised such as: "Why are pepperoni pizzas no longer seen in modern times?" This argument will convince millions.

I'm sure 47 million years is a wild guess and accepted as gospel --- but its too late to blind test this pontification.

Oh, I would love to test these mythmakers with some blind testing: same sample given to five different universities and receiving 5 widely different ages ranging upto millions.

I have no stupid monkey ancestors.

I am quite sure this will happen.

#90 | Posted by Zed at 2009-05-19 07:15 PM

Nice to be so sure of what will be here 47 million years from now.

#92 | Posted by takitez at 2009-05-19 07:19 PM | Reply | Flag: Monkeys everywhere are relieved.

Looking at the photo it appears that the lemur monkey hasn't changed much the last 47 million years.

I have no stupid monkey ancestors.

#92 | Posted by takitez at 2009-05-19 07:19 PM

Wow you are right!

They were Chimpanzees.

But, we are all just chattering chimps!


Your ancestors were the Chimpanzees and Bonobos in the genus Pongo but yours were the ones with the defective "Religion" gene. Your ancestors apparently HAD to believe in a higher power. They HAD to or were DRIVEN to worship something! Or the universe was just too scary for them to handle. And because there was not an obvious explanation for things being the way they are in this Universe that they had found themselves in they made up these mythical stories to explain what they could not understand and so created a "God of the Gaps".

So, WE are all just chattering chimps!

But, MY ancestors that had that awesome Curiosity gene that helped them figure out that fire was not the magical breath of the Gods to be feared and worshiped but was a natural occurrence based on the physical laws of the Universe and could be controlled and harnessed for the the betterment of Man.

AND My ancestor Chimpanzees were apparently the dominate Alpha Chimps and interestingly were the ones that also figured out that they had to sodomize your ancestors in order maintain order in the group as yours were wimpy Beta Chimps who were the natural born followers of the group.

" "Gravity as a fact."

God turned off the gravity switch during the "Big Gang Bang" or the whole thing would have collapsed, so watch out or He may turn it off again."

FWTHOM

So that's how NASA gets those space shuttles to go so high.

...in order maintain order...

bah! should be

..to maintain order..

"Gravity as a fact."

God turned off the gravity switch during the "Big Gang Bang" or the whole thing would have collapsed, so watch out or He may turn it off again.

#80 | Posted by fwthom at 2009-05-19 04:25 PM

Gravity IS a fact!

Explaining it is another matter and that is called the Theory of Gravity. Or as Takeitseazy would explain it it is the 'Intelligent Falling' Theory

Don't believe Gravity is a Fact?

Go jump off a bridge then FuckWad.

"Anti-falling physicists have been theorizing for decades about the 'electromagnetic force,' the 'weak nuclear force,' the 'strong nuclear force,' and so-called 'force of gravity,'" Burdett said. "And they tilt their findings toward trying to unite them into one force. But readers of the Bible have already known for millennia what this one, unified force is:

His name is Jesus."

-Takeitsleazy

The religion as a gene argument is interesting. As is the atheist notion that, provided such a thing(s) exists, if must be "defective".

By definition, of course, if a religion gene makes it easier to make babies it is "normal" by any reasonable definition of that term.

Of course, Dawkins argues religion can be genetic, but the result of "drift", therefore accidental, and therefore somehow abnormal.

Could there be antheism gene? Who knows. But if there were then we could get into the same peculiar name-calling about what genes are more normal than others.

As it is, we've got people bragging about ape troops they hoped they belonged to a few million years ago. Pretty-damned-crazy.

Even more interesting is the fact that many genes seem to assume an object. For example, people wherever found examine trees from the ground up first, still looking for leopards, the object.

Now this really makes one think. More than one, however? That would be surprising.

Evolution is fact. Get over it zed.

All they ever needed to do was ask Helen Thomas, she was there.

If only she had evolved . . .

At least you aren't claiming that Satan planted them in Germany to trick us into doubting our faith in a two thousand year old book.

#1 | Posted by silver_ironist at 2009-05-19 10:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

Because it makes more sense to put one's faith in a "47 million year-old" fossil?

Find a monkey skeleton and confirm your religion.

Didn't archeologists recently find an ossuary with the name "James bar Joseph" in Israel? Many thought, "Aha!, the brother of Jesus bar Joseph...Jesus the Messiah!"

I guess when you find what confirms your religion, you can get excited over anything that confirms your religion!

Science has been degraded yet again by this hint of a 'missing link' --- one can smell the desperation when bones like these are considered such.


"If you're gonna talk evolution, you can also cover the history of religion in an objective way and put forth the belief structure of creationism, objectively."


........OK, then we should have them teach about the fact that the people who wrote the bible believed the Earth was flat and the center of the universe.


#69 | Posted by danni


Congrats. A new level of confusion for you.
UM maybe you did not attend school as a child, but YES schools do teach that people used to believe the world was flat and the center of the universe.
So you have a problem with including in the teaching of the development of religion and religious beliefs in an obejective manner why now?
You are not making any sense. (and i think this is about the 70 billionth time someone has told you that)

Check out "Google" today.

Nice!

Just saw that .

GOOGLE: full of "progessive thinkers"

Sorry you're going bankrupt :-)

obama is the missing link


"I have yet to see the paper, but I am skeptical of this conclusion. First, one of the main authors of the paper is Philip Gingerich, who has been maintaining the evolution of anthropoid primates from adapids for years despite evidence to the contrary. (See Chris Beard's The Hunt for the Dawn Monkey for a good review.) This is directly related to the second problem, which is that adapids were strepsirrhine (popularly called "wet-nosed") primates more closely related to modern-day lemurs, lorises, and bush babies. Instead anthropoids and the stock from which they arose are haplorrhines ("dry-nosed" primates), with tarsiers and an extinct group of tarsier-like primates called omomyids being much closer to them than the adapids.

According to preliminary reports Gingerich et al. link Darwinius to anthropoids by saying that it lacks a tooth comb and a toilet claw, two characteristics of strepsirrhine primates. As the author of A Primate of Modern Aspect writes, though, the lack of these two features does not automatically make Darwinius a transitional form from adapids to early anthropoids. It could be, and may be more likely to be, a unique part of the adapid family tree, and I will be very interested to see if the new paper contains a cladistic analysis. (I was a bit disappointed that Gingerich's last major descriptive paper on the early whale Maiacetus did not contain a cladogram).

I have the feeling that this fossil, while spectacular, is being oversold. This raises an important question about the way scientific discoveries, particularly fossil finds, are being popularized. Darwinius is just the latest is a string of significant fossils to be hyped in the media before being scientifically described (or at least before that information is released to the public). Other recent examples include "Dakota" the Edmontosaurus, the pliosaur "Predator X", and "Lyuba" the baby mammoth. I am glad that these finds are stirring excitement, but I am a bit put off by the way they are presented.

Companies like National Geographic and the History Channel are taking a larger role in how these discoveries are being presented. Each of the fossils I mentioned above have had books, feature articles, documentaries, or some combination thereof produced about them before any scientific description of them has been published. These promotional materials make grand claims but are vague on details, which are reserved for later academic publications. This can potentially create problems for effective science communication.

Consider, for example, the grand claims made about finds like Darwinius. It is being heavily promoted but scientists have not yet had a chance to see the fossil or read the paper describing it. When they get a call from a journalist or are asked their opinion on it, then, it can be difficult to discuss the find because they do not know the details. This can be harmful as it can not only lead to the spread of overblown assertions but it can also make us look foolish if these finds do not turn out to be all they were cracked up to be. This could especially be the case with Darwinius. Though heralded in documentaries and in the news as one of our direct ancestors, it is probably a very interesting lemur-like primate on a different evolutionary branch. I can only imagine the field day creationists are going to have if this is the case, and I am frustrated by the way mass media outlets manage to bungle genuinely interesting scientific discoveries."


scienceblogs.com

Human Descent from Lemurs? Could be, sortalike


scienceblogs.com

Scientists Find Missing Link: It's a Fameball

After 47 million years, scientists unearthed a fossil which may be the long-awaited missing link between primates and mankind. They immediately turned the fossil into a huge media whore that we're already sick of.

They're formally unveiling the fossil, Darwinius masillae, in a big ceremony in New York this morning and then launching a monstrous media and PR campaign that's been in the works for two years. There's gonna be only the biggest and most expensive History Channel documentary EVER and a whole book and a website and a TV campaign and appearances on Good Morning America and Nightline and the ABC Evening News.

Ugh, barf, Darwinius masillae is only the most played-out monkeylink species fossil in the last 47 million years, GOD I'm so sick of hearing about it. Hey Darwinius masillae what will you do when you have to get a real job because you don't even have that much talent after all even though you think you are so cool?

An article to be published on Tuesday in PLoS, a scientific journal, will report more prosaically that the scientists involved said the fossil could be a "stem group" that was a precursor to higher primates, with the caveat, "but we are not advocating this."

I mean at least Christina Aguilera can sing."

chk the pic

gawker.com


Poor, poor Ida, Or: "Overselling an Adapid"
Category

Not everyone agrees with this, however. Some researchers have long maintained that adapids are better candidates for the ancestors of anthropoids, with Philip Gingerich (one of the authors of the Darwinius paper) being a vocal proponent of this view. It is not terribly surprising, then, that the authors of the Darwinius paper posit that adapids are more closely related to anthropoids than tarsiers and omomyids, and they rely on two tactics to make their case.

The authors of the paper try to frame their hypothesis in a historical manner. They claim that adapids have been barred from a close anthropoid relationship on the basis of soft-tissue characteristics that do not fossilize. This would mean that the association between omomyids, tarsiers, and anthropoids would hang by a nose, but this is not true. As reviewed in popular books like Chris Beard's The Hunt for the Dawn Monkey and technical volumes like Anthropoid Origins, the relationship between omomyids, tarsiers, and anthropoids is based upon a wide array of fossil and neontological data. I can't imagine why the authors of the new paper would suggest otherwise unless they were trying to construct a false historiography in order to show their fossil in a better light.

This shoddy scholarship is matched by a weak attempt to show that Darwinius has more anthropoid-like traits than tarsiers or omomyids do. In order for the authors of the paper to make a convincing case they would have to undertake a careful, systematic analysis of the anatomy of Darwinius in comparison to other primates, yet they did not do this. Instead they combed the literature for 30 traits that might help ascertain the placement of Darwinius in the primate family tree and filled in whether each trait was present or absent in Ida's skeleton.

From what has been presented in the popular press, the authors claim that there are two primary traits that more closely link Darwinius to anthropoids. It appears that Ida did not have a tooth comb (a set of forward-facing incisors) or a grooming claw (a special claw on the foot), two characteristics of living lemurs and lorises (strepsirrhine primates). Since anthropoids lack these traits, too, the authors suggest a close connection, but they have not sufficiently shown that Darwinius is not just showing a case of convergence.


scienceblogs.com

"A simplified cladogram placing "Ida" as the sister group to haplorrhine primates, including anthropoids. From PLoS One. .


What the authors do, then, is a little tricky. They say that Darwinius (and hence other adapids) are haplorrhine primates, the group that presently contains tarsiers and anthropoids. By moving the adapids into the haplorrhine group they can then make the claim that anthropoids evolved from the adapid stem and not tarsiers or omomyids. The problem is that they are using just one genus, Darwinius, to change the placement of an entire group without using any cladistic analysis! This is not good science.

The bottom line is that the hypothesis that Darwinius is closer to anthropoids than tarsiers or omomyids does not have strong support. Even though the authors of the paper constructed a very simple cladogram they did not undertake a full, rigorous cladistic analysis to support their claims. I am baffled as to how they could stress the significance of this fossil without undertaking the requisite research to support their hypothesis.

Is Darwinius important to understanding primate evolution? Of course! It is an exceptionally preserved specimen that could do much to aid our understanding of adapid evolution and paleobiology. The grand claims about it being our ancestor, though, can not be upheld as true. The researchers simply did not do the work to support their case, and even if their language was more reserved in the technical paper they have gone hand-in-hand with the History Channel to create an aura of sensationalism around the fossil. I hardly think this is a responsible way to conduct or communicate science, flooding the media with poorly supported claims, but as reported in the New York Times some of this paper's authors care more about marketing than about good science;

"Any pop band is doing the same thing," said Jorn H. Hurum, a scientist at the University of Oslo who acquired the fossil and assembled the team of scientists that studied it. "Any athlete is doing the same thing. We have to start thinking the same way in science."
This is a shame. I would have hoped that this fossil would receive the care and attention it deserves, but for now it looks like a cash cow for the History Channel. Indeed, this association may not have only presented overblown claims to the public, but hindered good science, as well. As Karen James has suggested, the overall poor quality of the paper and the disproportionate hyping of the find make me wonder if this research was rushed into publication so that the media splash would occur on time. The paper tried to cover so much, so quickly, and contained so many shortfalls that I honestly have to wonder why it was allowed to be published in such a state. Perhaps we will never know, but I am sickened by the way in which a cable network has bastardized a legitimately fascinating scientific discovery, with the scientists themselves going along with it every step of the way. I can only hope that Darwinius will eventually receive the careful analysis it deserves."

scienceblogs.com

For all of you unwashed Liberals who believe in evilution, read it ans weep! ldolphin.org


For all of you unwashed Liberals who believe in evilution, read it ans weep! ldolphin.org

#117 | Posted by Electro412

Looks better in bold.

(and i think this is about the 70 billionth time someone has told you that)

#108 | Posted by Fredo_C

Fredo, Danni is a retard and pointing out the obvious is lost on her.


One supposes that there are many paths to being fooled by all the hype without waiting for the actual paper and then finding out that the truth hurts.

Holy crap!

Who would take it upon themselves to desecrate the grave of one of Takitez's close relatives??!?

I, for one, am outraged.



@ #106 | Posted by TheOneBS:

You keep repeating "religion" as if there is any similarity between science and world religions. Well, if there is, I'd like to see it. And please, "because I said so" doesn't count as evidence. Science is based on fact -- what does religion have? Fairy tales!

The bible is a plagiarisation of earlier pagan works on astrology. The whole thing's a sham, set up and rammed down our ancestors' throats by religios-political hustlers in Rome! Jesus (like Horus and Mithra, etc etc etc) likely never existed, but you all bought it! LOL!

But, I digress. Please go back to telling us all how science is less credible than a book based on talking snakes, plagiarism, and fairy tales.

LOL!


www.godandscience.org

"www.godandscience.org"

Are these claims a true representation of God's character or have Dawkins and other skeptics misinterpreted what the Bible says?

Sorry, I stopped reading there. If there is a "god" and it's perfect in all ways, it most certainly would not have any human characteristics - let alone the most depraved ones. It would follow that "god" also would not be kind or benevolent, either; assigning human dispositions to the creator of everything is a dead giveaway that "god" is a human creation. "God" would "just be", without any reference to his/her/its "character".

Spinoza's naturalistic pantheism is the closest one can come to arguing for the existence of a "god".

Spinoza's idea is that "god" is in all things, at all times (ie, "god" = nature). I don't have a problem with this more spiritual conception of "god", but I somehow think it would prove inadequate for those seeking an all-powerful daddy figure: "Who's going to punish all the mud-people, or those who worship a god with a smaller dick than my god??"

The best part? A Spinozan "god" does not possess the ugliest of human characteristics - which, of course, cannot be said for the highly anthropomorphisized gods of our various world religions.

- it most certainly would not have any human characteristics - let alone the most depraved ones.

I once read two philosophical university papers by well-known theorists, one a Jew and one a Protestant. The thing they agreed upon most was the "personality" of God.

You really shouldn't look for reasons to stop reading things you disagree with, as you will never learn anything that way.

For all of you unwashed Liberals who believe in evilution, read it ans weep! ldolphin.org

#117 | Posted by Electro412

The evolution of man is not only a guess, but a very wild one; and it is totally unsupported by any convincing arguments. It can be mathematically demonstrated to be an impossible theory.


Now, according to the chronology of Hales, based on the Septuagint text, 5077 years have elapsed since the flood, and 5177 years since the ancestors of mankind numbered only two, Noah and his wife. By dividing 5177 by 30.75, we find it requires an average of 168.3 years for the human race to double its numbers, in order to make the present population. This is a reasonable average length of time.

oh yeah ... this is the kind of crap that was found there.... kind of sad to see that level of stupidity don't you think?

evilution

A creationist is someone who's not even smart enuff to be an IDiot.

Be Well.

-not even smart enuff

This is a recurrent theme among atheists, that they are more intelligent than theists. And, of course, if they mean TV evangelists, they are probably correct.

But I'll bet few of you can even get past the terminology in the following without a dictionary.

www.leaderu.com

And if you prefer an example from philosophy, try reading Reinhold Niebuhr, and then get back to me.

www.tameri.com

www.leaderu.com

I once read two philosophical university papers by well-known theorists, one a Jew and one a Protestant. The thing they agreed upon most was the "personality" of God.

That's all fine and well, but then don't go calling this "science", because it isn't.

There is NO way to observe or measure god's "personality"; such anecdotes would not be accepted as scientific evidence, and are essentially non-sequiturs.

Talking about god's personality, his/her/its proclivities, who's on god's speed-dial, etc., is about as "scientific" as my observation that the Higgs-Boson particle loves me so very much and, in Its great benevolence, sought to give me the Gift of Mass.

-That's all fine and well, but then don't go calling this "science", because it isn't.

Who called what "science"? And why are you trying to "measure" religion with science anyway?

What I've posted on this thread was on topic,(mostly) a retort from a scientist who has actually read the Ida paper and describes the measurements that are lacking and expresses his dismay at the hype.

#117 | Posted by Electro412

Yea I read through it electro. Your taking the word of eugenicists?

pathetic.

Oh, is this what the Lemurians looked like?

Lemuria for the Lemurian people. www.lemuria.net

How dare "they" desecrate these remains?

Mu. Mu. Mu.


Johnson made a funny! And some people don't believe in miracles!


en.wikipedia.org(continent)

am hungry.... will get some intelligently designed potatoes for a snack.

ID chicken too.... delicious.

Wonder what the world will be like without chicken for meal menu.

#135 | Posted by takitez at 2009-05-20 05:48 PM | Reply | Flag: Wants to Have Chickenrancher's Baby

Missing link?

Perhaps.

But I am still wondering something.

Supposedly all life came from the ocean.

Obviously, we know the earth is not a mere 6000 years old, like some people still believe.

However, where are the fossils of mammals with gills, or fish with legs or something like that.

If all life came from the ocean, shouldn't there be fossils of strange creatures that would reflect the time when life moved from the ocean to land?

"Evolution is a fact, get over it, ZED...."

ZED was attempting to teach you something about evolution and strike a point form that. That sound you heard whooshing above your head was me, ZOMBIE.

Is it because you can't pay attention or won't pay attention? Is it because you don't care or don't know, or don't care to know?

The issue of God will not be resolved here. The notion atheists are brighter than, I don't know, chicken farmers, will be shown for the conceit it always was.

"fish with legs"

#137 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2009-05-20 06:17 PM | Reply | Flag: Failed to look.

fstdt.com

"Assigning human characteristics to God is a dead giveaway God is a human creation...."

The God of the Bible is an enormously mixed collection of characteristics, by my reading. Some of these seem human and others entirely not.

This can be confirmed by reading the Bible. Just a thought. You can use God's apparent inhumaness as another argument there is no God. I mean, there's no debating judge here afterall.

Personally, I seriously doubt that here in 2009, we finally know "the truth".

Time and again, the scientists and theologians have believed they know "the truth".

"The truth has been revealed to me", or "we have scientific evidence that proves..."

No...the odds are we have bits and pieces of the entire picture.

Personally, I do agree with the idea of intelligent design. I do believe in something more powerful than myself, and I do believe there is an invisible world of energy (or spirits) that does interact with some of us.

Bottomline, I seriously doubt here in this time in history we have all the facts.

Zat,

what is it...I'd like to read about it.

you have a link to something to read?

"you have a link to something to read?"

Posted by BillJohnson at 2009-05-20 06:31 PM

That picture was on the cover of Nature some time back. I don't recall which issue. Use The Google Bill.

Zat,

You know what I mean. It's not simply a fish with legs. There's still more needed than that.

There's still too much missing.

The theory of life coming from the sea is still very much that. Just a theory.

From what I have seen, neither the creationists nor the evolutionists are able to prove their theories.

Basically, everyone is believing what they want to believe, and backing it up with evidence they choose to accept.

What are the Creationist saying about this or are their heads to deep up Jesus' ass to be heard?

#53 | Posted by Manypaths

I wonder why so many of you libs focus on such a small group when it comes to this subject? Most believers today believe that God created the Earth and that Evolution was how He made it all work. There are very few people who actually believe that the Earth is 5,000 years old, yet you just love commenting on them. I doubt that there are even any on this blog. You keep on addressing an almost non-existent group though if it makes you feel superior. We all know how you love to feel better than everyone.

#145 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2009-05-20 06:45 PM | Reply | Flag: fail

"Today evolution is the foundation of all biology, so basic and all-pervasive that scientists sometimes take its importance for granted. At some level every discovery in biology and medicine rests on it, in much the same way that all terrestrial vertebrates can trace their ancestry back to the first bold fishes to explore land. Each year, researchers worldwide discover enough extraordinary findings tied to evolutionary thinking to fill a book many times as thick as all of Darwin's works put together. This year's volume might start with a proposed rearrangement of the microbes at the base of the tree of life and end with the discovery of 190-million-year-old dinosaur embryos."

www.sciencemag.org

OK, then we should have them teach about the fact that the people who wrote the bible believed the Earth was flat and the center of the universe.
If we taught the truth about what the ancient peoples who began religions actually believed it would cause students to laugh at their own religions as well as everyone elses.
I think the less said about religion the better...for the religions.

#69 | Posted by danni


WTF are you talking about? What does not having obtained certain scientific knowledge have to do with religion? So they didn't now how the heavens work. BFD. The New Testament was still written shortly after Jesus' death. So, I think it's fair to say that they knew something about that period of time. What they knew about astronomy has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

Ever,

Indeed, there are still people (mostly older conservative Christians) who believe the earth is 6000 years old.

Granted, they are wrong just like the flat earth believers were wrong, or planets revolve around the earth, etc.

But...that doesn't mean we have it all figured out today. In fact, I think we would have to be terribly ignorant and foolish to fancy ourselves so fortunate to be in possession of enough facts to make definite assertions.

No...the odds are there is still a lot to be unearthed and a lot of pieces to be found that will give mankind a glimpse into his origin.

Personally, I believe if scientists and theologians are seriously interested in learning, "the truth", their paths will eventually intersect.

Perhaps both evolutionists and creationists have a surprise in store.

Danni.... In antiquity some folks in RC believed the flat earth, but not the Bible writers --- I would be interested if you could find flat earth in the Bible. Please sharpen yourself before arguing for your myth.

Godandscience.org

Please sharpen yourself before arguing for your myth.

Cosmic microwave background...
Radioisotope dating...
Spectroscopic evidence of organic molecules in space...
Transitionary fossils...
Molecular clocks...
Urey Miller experiment...
Molecular quasispecies...
RNA world...
Occam's motherfucking razor...

Sounds like you could use a little of your own advice.

"Transitionary fossils...."

Is a conceptual trap. Because the "gaps" between species are arbitrary, and by definition infinite. Just a hole never to be filled

#151.... and lucky planet earth....

Food chain in abundance and billions of plant species... all started simultaneously to provide food for the evolving animals.

All of them started with nothing: still a mystery to science. But mythology can cover it. Or don't ask don't tell.

I hate to rain on the parade of those former and current apes that were having wet dreams over this find, but:

"'Ida' Fossil Hype Went Too Far"
www.livescience.com


What are the Creationist saying about this or are their heads to deep up Jesus' ass to be heard?


#53 | Posted by Manypaths


I wonder why so many of you libs focus on such a small group when it comes to this subject? Most believers today believe that God created the Earth and that Evolution was how He made it all work. There are very few people who actually believe that the Earth is 5,000 years old, yet you just love commenting on them. I doubt that there are even any on this blog. You keep on addressing an almost non-existent group though if it makes you feel superior. We all know how you love to feel better than everyone.


Hence my use of the word CREATIONIST.

Creationism is the belief that humanity, life, the Earth, and the universe were created in their original form by a deity (often the Abrahamic God of Judaism, Christianity and Islam) or deities.[1] In relation to the creation-evolution controversy the term creationism is commonly used to refer to religiously motivated rejection of evolution as an explanation of origins.[2]

Creationism in the West is usually based on a literal reading of Genesis 1-2, and in its broad sense covers a wide range of beliefs and interpretations. Through the 19th century the term most commonly referred to direct creation of individual souls, in contrast to traducianism. However, by 1929 in the United States the term became particularly associated with Christian fundamentalist opposition to human evolution and belief in a young Earth.

The people that you speak of do not fall into this group.

Try to understand next time.

"Food chain in abundance and billions of plant species... all started simultaneously to provide food for the evolving animals."

It's one thing to be a Creationist who believes unquestioningly out of religious fervor but to just never read a book describing the millions of years of biological evolution is just ignorant.
Any high school biology student could tell you that your assumption that in evolutionary theory plants were suddenly evolved as food for already existing animals is not even close to what is actually believed. You should read a book about evolution before you decide it is nonsense. And please do not pretend you have because your post proves otherwise.
No one who believes in evolution ever made an argument that it "all started simultaneously to provide food for the evolving animals."
Your post just further convinced me that the main reason people believe in Creationism is actually just plain ignorance.

#156...Well, because evolution has no answer for it. I'm glad you admitted it.

The idea of missing a link is a joke, and evolution is a myth.

#157 | Posted by takitez at 2009-05-21 10:02 PM | Reply | Flag: Failed biology just like mAnn Coulter.

Mythological biology rejected....

The idea of missing a link is a joke, and evolution is a myth.

Learn how to discuss the topic intelligently, or remain a joke to anyone with a shred of scientific aptitute.

You can join "Sideshow Jeff" in providing us with free entertainment.

The joke is on evolution....

The joke is on evolution....

Keep talking (or writing). It's meaningless without supporting evidence, and doubly laughable when you are too dull to comprehend the most basic concepts of biology.

Yes, its meaningless without supporting evidence: and evolution has no scientific evidence. It's all about dogma.

Ida is no uncle of Zombie....
www.livescience.com
Whew....

and evolution has no scientific evidence.

There's quite a bit of supporting evidence for evolution, actually. I'm surprised that you have not been exposed to it.

evolution has no scientific evidence

None that you can understand... that's not saying much, though.

Ida is no uncle of Zombie....

With a human generation time of about 20 years and an age of 47 million years, Ida would be my great (x 2.3 million) grandparent.

Can you even understand numbers that big?

I'm talking about macro-evolution. There is no scientific evidence for it. None. Dogma and suppositions, plenty. And wild guesses.

#167... I have dismissed evo mythology long ago. But you're entitled to fantasize.

I'm talking about macro-evolution. There is no scientific evidence for it.

I'm not sure why you say this. There is quite a bit of it, actually. You are either being obtuse, or deliberately ignoring it.

But at any rate, if you truly believe there is no evidence to support evolution, when indeed there is, it would be impossible for you to engage in an evolutionary debate, wouldn't it? That being the case, perhaps you should stop trying. LOL

Of course you 'debate' conists of putting your fingers in your ears and shouting "lalalalallala", so it's a moot point anyway.

I'm talking about macro-evolution. There is no scientific evidence for it.

Like I said before... none that you are capable of understanding. I think I know why you have such an attachment to this fundamentalist madness- it's the only thing that allows you to comprehend the world you live in given your obvious intellectual deficits.

Dogma and suppositions, plenty. And wild guesses.

Do you see the irony in this?

I have dismissed evo mythology long ago. But you're entitled to fantasize.

#169 | Posted by takitez at 2009-05-21 11:45 PM | Reply | Flag: Prefers plagiarised Pagan mythology

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