"But the president strongly believes that the release of these photos, particularly at this time, would only serve the purpose of inflaming the theaters of war, jeopardizing U.S. forces, and making our job more difficult in places like Iraq and Afghanistan."

There are videos of kids being raped in front of their mothers, according to Seymour Hersh.

Wonder if Obama ever considered showing those?

Anyway... I have faith in the internet and the carelessness of man.

It'll all come out eventually.

well, that's strange - as i was headed upstairs just moments ago, the news alert stated he's going to release a block of photos. hmmm...

if he does, prepare for rioting in the streets.

oops - he seeks to "block release of photos" - my terrible.

"prepare for rioting in the streets"

What streets would those be?

I think this is prudent. The content of the photos will and have been discussed. There is no need to victimize the detainees twice by giving a visual interpretation of their ordeal.

On the other hand

Obama knows if the content is shown there will be no way he can avoid prosecuting the former administration and ALL those involved in these crimes, top to bottom. The outcry would be too great once there is a visual imprint left on peoples minds.

What about us?

-Liberals with Fading Erections

Andrew Sullivan headlines this as "Obama, NeoCon in Chief". Says it all.

A mockery of American values. An affront to what this country is supposed to stand for. I won't be working for him or voting for him in 2012 as I did this time around. I simply fail to see how this makes Obama any different from Bush and Cheney and if I'd wanted them again I'd have voted for McCain and Palin. In fact I would not have voted at all. I'm sure that the Republicans will be as toxic in 2012 as they are now so there's no way anybody in a party led around by the nose by Limbaugh, FOX et al could possibly be voted for.

Bush lied through his teeth when he said that America doesn't torture because it's against our laws and values while he was busy authorizing it. We really could have expected something better from him when he ran for the Presidency as a born-again Christian but he doesn't have a spine anywhere in his body so when push came to shove he just went along with the evil. He'd better hope that his professed religious beliefs are based on nothing more than superstition otherwise he's going to be in hell for eternity.

Cheney is simply a scumbag with not one ounce of integrity anywhere in his body so it came as no surprise that he would do it. He's as certain a candidate for any hell that might exist as Pol Pot, Stalin or Hitler ever were.

Obama's lame excuse that it would jeopardize US forces is reminiscent of the pure BS we got from Bush and Cheney about keeping America safe. Has he really convinced himself that our enemies and friends are not quite sure of what we did? We were never surprised all that much at Bush's frequent journeys into reality-free zones but Obama was supposed to be different. Seems he's not.

How will I complete my scrapbook?

-Cheney

Airing dirty laundry is fine, but I think we get the picture as to what was going on, a top down legitimization of torture by the last admin.

And more pics will be released. But Obama making sure that the Muslim world sees every hideous act splattered across the world's headlines again would be cutting off his nose (or ears) to spite his face.

It just doesn't help at all. Pragmatism is a harsh concept for ideologues from either side of the aisle.

michellemalkin.cachefly.net

#9 | Posted by KBM

And if he HAD released the photos, Malkin would be screeching that he was a traitor and hated America.

KaBooM!

Fucking liar.

Chickenshit

Obama acknowledges that these photos exist. Why release them, only to stir the hornets again? Whats it going to solve at this point?

This is a huge mistake. Every step Obama takes to obscure and protect the abuses of the Bush administration brings him one step closer to being its successor.

The problem here is that we committed these abuses, not that people are seeking to bring them to light.

Perhaps they could place each photo inside its own flag-draped coffin, and release a picture of the coffins...

The quickest way to put this dark chapter behind us is to confront it with openess. Publish the photos. Let us (and the world at large) get our anger and outrage out of our systems. If there are those who truly need to be prosecuted, so be it. But we will never really move beyond this issue of torture and extreme acts committed in the name of national security until it is exposed to the light of day.

How will I complete my scrapbook?

#8 | Posted by CricketCricket

Try PhotoShop! The left does it all the time except for photos of the big plane.

"This is a huge mistake. Every step Obama takes to obscure and protect the abuses of the Bush administration brings him one step closer to being its successor.

The problem here is that we committed these abuses, not that people are seeking to bring them to light."

I couldn't disagree more. He's CIC now. He has troops stationed in war zones. He has a responsiblity to them. And that means if he has to take some criticism and be compared to Bush in order to avoid inciting violence against those soldiers, that is what he has to do.

The minute he starts making their lives more difficult in order to make himself look better, he's a traitor in my book.

If he's not willing to take some heat on their behalf then he needs to bring them home.

The problem here is that we committed these abuses, not that people are seeking to bring them to light.

#15 | Posted by rcade

Is Obama trying to deny that the abuses happened? I haven't heard that. If the abuses already have been brought to light then what purpose would be served by further enraging the abused?

There is no sense in releasing these photos, except to a court that may be prosecuting those that approved and carried out the acts. For anyone else they are merely firewood to stoke the rage.

i think they need to be published

but we have to be out of afghanistan and iraq before...and/or have already sentanced the perpetrators of the heinous acts

otherwise, prepare for new violence

prepare for more american deaths

and definately prepare for many many deaths amongst the muslim world

trust me, i think we need to know what happened and prosecute those involved all the way up if needed... but maybe they should be done in a court first... then to the public after the prosecutions are made.

-The problem here is that we committed these abuses, not that people are seeking to bring them to light.

True enough. So what's the priority? Making sure that mostly redundant photos are released in the name of purity, again inflaming the Muslim world, or deciding pragmatically to address the abuses of the last admin in court as Justice is doing?

A "substantial" number of these photos will be released, enough to remind everyone that the abuse was systemic as the ACLU says is the goal.

But then, I suppose Obama needs something else on his plate about now, it's getting a bit empty....

Good to see Obama developing a baby backbone and deciding to stop pandering to intolerant ACLU....

"The quickest way to put this dark chapter behind us is to confront it with openess. Publish the photos. Let us (and the world at large) get our anger and outrage out of our systems."

It isn't about what is quickest and easiest for us. Its about not making life more difficult for people that were sent into a warzone (rightly or wrongly) on our behalf.

If we have to live with "this dark chapter" hanging over our heads for a few more years to save a couple of soldiers' lives, then that is what we have to do.

99% of the time we aren't even thinking about this shit even with "this dark chapter" looming over us.... Meanwhile, the guys who would suffer if we release these pictures are facing life and death 24/7.

Let's use some common sense and keep some perspective. We'll just have to do without our misplaced sense of moral superiority for a couple of more years.....

intolerant ACLU....

LOL!

In a related story Obama has decided to release naked photos of Nancy Pelosi at the same time thus rendering the controversial photos lame in comparison...

"naked photos of Nancy Pelosi "

turning the entire country to stone is not going to benefit anyone.

I think I'm with Klifferd on this. Let's see, how did General Westmoreland put it...

"Vietnam was the first war ever fought without any censorship. Without censorship, things can get terribly confused in the public mind."

In a perfect world I would like to the pictures to come out. Our world is far from perfect.

Wouldn't the government be violating their own child pornography laws by releasing pictures of children being raped? Come to think of it, they were involved in the manufacture of child pornography too.

What a weird twist of justice it would be, if the soldiers who did this got rung up on kiddie porn charges.

"Let's see, how did General Westmoreland put it..."

Westy? What a loser.

Let's see the video's of Dubya's and Dead Eye Dick's Great Adventure.

Of course we don't want to jeopardize any future criminal trials, so maybe we should play it close to the vest.

Those who suffered already know what happened unless they are the ones who were murdered. Some of them were there and now are back home, remember? We wouldn't be publishing these photos and details of the abuse and murders for the benefit of our enemies but for the benefit of those innocents we did it to, ourselves and our friends. It would show that America is not just a mouthy emperor with no clothes but a country that can acknowledge and correct its sins.

There are going to be more American deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan whether Obama allows the light of day on the Bush/Cheney war crimes or not. The war crimes still happened and everybody knows they did. Publish and get it over with or just let it fester away like it did with Bush and Cheney. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Bush: All hat and no cattle.

Obama: All mouth and no trousers.

The minute he starts making their lives more difficult in order to make himself look better, he's a traitor in my book.

This is like saying that the My Lai massacre should have been covered up until after the Vietnam War. That's not how democracies fight wars. Our wars require the consent of the governed -- not just at the onset but throughout the conflict. If the American people can't face the truth of what's been done in Iraq and Afghanistan, we shouldn't be in the war. Covering up the truth until after the wars are over -- if they are ever over -- is not patriotic.

My money is on release of the images after his trip to Egypt in early June.

Corky suggests that we not show photos of tortured Muslims because that might inflame the rest of Islam. As it surely SHOULD. America too, while we're at it.

TakeIt From Jesus suggests The Prez caves in to the ACLU. The Prez was a constitutional law prof. He knows what the constitution demands. Intolerant???

Go Brock. herm

While we talk about the photos, lets release the video tapes around the pentagon, including those that belonged to citizens.

If it hadn't have already happened ad nauseum, I might agree with you, Herm. Now it's just mostly for political payback, something we can do in court.

-My money is on release of the images after his trip to Egypt in early June.

Good bet, but too pragmatic for some. Most here would prefer Obama go to Egypt and make his big Muslim speech with these pics stuck too him as if they happened on his watch, which of course many people there would think that they did.

Ideology is fun, but not always profitable.

Brock: all idiot, all the time.

Publishing the photos does nothing except to enrage and allows others to misrepresent this as SOP - its not. They waterboared 3 people The 3 highest AQ leaders looking for current intel.

Brock back mountain and others want to see them because they either get off on it or they enjoy the backlash that our troops and avg citizens will get when traveling abroad or at the local liberalidiots house.

Truth will out

The pictures will come out.

Truth hurts

IF there are pictures of US personnel raping children as the asser states, than these people should be held accountable.

#35, Herm,

constitutioal law, some wisdom, and some backbone will do our nation good.

As for ACLU, there is plenty evidence of intolerance.... trying to demolish a historical cross in the Desert in San Diego.

What a bunch of ungrates....

remember torture works

Republican Senator Lindsay Graham: "The American public needs to understand, we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience. We're talking about rape and murder and some very serious charges."

remember toture works

Report Mainz" reported already on 5th July 2004 about the potential abuse of children in Abu Ghraib. (Link). A video (in German) of the feature is available at the page (Link to streaming Real file). You can see interviews with persons who testify that they have seen children arrested in Abu Ghraib and who have seen and have heard of a boy and a 12 year old girl terrified (cold water and mud were spilled over them) by guards or military personal. The boy and the girl were then used to terrify their also arrested parents who were willing to cooperate after seeing their children terrified by the guards/military personnel.

Remember Torture works

Is it possible that they document the exact incidents to which Hersh referred? Excerpt from statement provided by Kasim Mehaddi Hilas, Detainee #151108, on January 18 2004:

I saw [name deleted] f**king a kid, his age would be about 15 - 18 years. The kid was hurting very bad and they covered all the doors with sheets. Then when I heard the screaming I climbed the door because on top it wasn't covered and I saw [name deleted] who was wearing the military uniform putting his dick in the little kid's ass. I couldn't see the face of the kid because his face wasn't in front of the door. And the female soldier was taking pictures. [name deleted], I think he is [deleted] because of his accent, and he was not skinny or short, and he acted like a homosexual (gay). And that was in cell #23 as best as I remember

Remember Torture Works

saw lots of people getting naked for a few days getting punished in the first days of Ramadan. They came with two boys naked and they were cuffed together face to face and Grainer was beating them and a group of guards were watching and taking pictures from top and bottom and there was three female soldiers laughing at the prisoners. The prisoners, two of them, were young. I don't know their names.

Here's a update (sub required) on Capitol Hill plans for hearings on new (and as-yet unreleased) material documenting torture at Abu Ghraib. And there's this snip from a CBS interview with "leash girl" Pfc. Lynndie England, the guard seen grinning and pointing at Iraqi prisoners in the infamous photos:

When England was asked if there were other things that happened at Abu Ghraib, things that were not photographed, she said, "Yes." When asked if there were worse things that happened, she said "Yes," but would not elaborate.

Remember Torture Works

Spam doesn't.

Truth hurts donut

The point being this is what the fuck happened, this is what people are talking about NOT prosecuting, about just sweeping under the rug.

TRUTH FUCKING HURTS

Spam doesn't.

Only if it is spam.

I would love to get my hands on these pics and videos.

I can have some real fun with those. LOL

But no need to be impatient. They will surface somehow, somewhere.

I hope America is still in Iraq and Afghanistan when it happens.

Fuck you ass grabber

"trying to demolish a historical cross in the Desert in San Diego"

Wrong, as usual. The cross was being supported with public funds. Just as you wouldn't want your tax monies going to pay for a Ramadan Diorama, others shouldn't have to pony up public cash so you can put your religious symbol on taxpayer grounds.

Caps Hurt, one supposes. Or at least they seem to make some feel "bigger".

There are legal issues involved in making sure that ongoing Justice Dept investigations are not derailed by the release of evidence merely to satisfy the political payback sought by some.

If Obama were to decide not to investigate or prosecute crimes that were committed by higher ups in the last admin, I would be pissed, too.

But so far all we see is the usual rats jumping ship because the Captain would rather steer the ship through dangerous waters rather than let it sink in a sea of ideological storm and political fury.

Fuck you ass grabber

Who me???

What did I do now?

Obama making sure that the Muslim world sees every hideous act splattered across the world's headlines again would be cutting off his nose (or ears) to spite his face... -- #10 | Posted by Corky

..and the Muslim world's. But they deserve justice and so do we -- the people in whose name the atrocities were committed. Prosecute the real criminals.

Wrong, as usual. The cross was being supported with public funds. Just as you wouldn't want your tax monies going to pay for a Ramadan Diorama, others shouldn't have to pony up public cash so you can put your religious symbol on taxpayer grounds.

#55 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-05-13 04:38 PM

Thank you, Live or Die, for reminding me it's time to Sharpie out "In God We Trust" on all my currency again.

-Prosecute the real criminals.

Absolutely. But be smart about it. Don't prejudice the cases by prematurely ejaculating evidence just so that some self-righteous types can feel better about themselves.

"Yes, and while we're at it, we should destroy all relics in public museums that might be considered religious"

What an idiotic response. We've long held that, within context, religious icons are fine. The ten commandments, alongside Hammurabi, Charlemagne, and other lawgivers is aok. The ten commandments by themselves, to the exclusion of others, are not. But it's fun to pretend there are only religious artifacts in a public museum, isn't it?

Maybe the photos and videos don't show that much. It is not like the sources who say the rape happened have not been proven wrong before. If the Bama released photos that didn't show the abuses the ACLU wanted the left would go crazy because it would be one less thing they could pin on Bush. Just a theory. And for those who will write saying I am full of it just prove me wrong and with sources other than the Daily Kos rags.

TruthHurts already proved you wrong, fishpaw.

Republican Senator Lindsay Graham: "The American public needs to understand, we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience. We're talking about rape and murder and some very serious charges."

But it's fun to pretend there are only religious artifacts in a public museum, isn't it?

#62 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-05-13 04:52 PM

"Who said that there are only religious artifacts in a public museum?"

Sorry...I guess you were only ignorant regarding the mix of the religious and the secular.

"This is like saying that the My Lai massacre should have been covered up until after the Vietnam War."

It depends on whether or not we really wanted to win. If we are going to be fight wars that necessitate you "win hearts and minds" in order to be victorious, then YES, you have to repress stuff like this or else you are acting against your own goals. Personally, I can't think of any scenario where fighting a war that necessitates we "win hearts and minds" is worth it. Your reasons for going to war should be so strong that you don't care what anyone else thinks about your actions. The minute you start to care what everyone else thinks, you've handicapped yourself.

"That's not how democracies fight wars."

Since when the late 60's? When demcoracies used to win wars, they did whatever it took to win. War should be a last resort and wars should be fought accordingly. During WWII, the Allies committed thousands of acts that would now be considered war crimes: Executing prisoners, killing civlians, collective punishment, name it. And in almost all cases, they were right to do it given the context.

"Our wars require the consent of the governed -- not just at the onset but throughout the conflict. If the American people can't face the truth of what's been done in Iraq and Afghanistan, we shouldn't be in the war. Covering up the truth until after the wars are over -- if they are ever over -- is not patriotic."

If the governed gave a shit they wouldn't have reelected the assholes who lied to us to start that war after it was proven they lied.

Now we're going to hand these pictures over to Al-Jazeera so our soldiers can face increased attacks so that the governed can be be enlightened?

And why? Because the idiotic public (not just Americans but apparently the world) is gullible enough to believe that wars can be fought cleanly? They have to be shown pictures to see know that war is a terrible thing? How about they just use their fucking heads to think about it for a minute instead?

Bring our guys home and plaster the pictures all over the place for all I care but handing over those pictures to Al-Jazeera so targets can be painted on their backs is an act of treason.

Sorry...I guess you were only ignorant regarding the mix of the religious and the secular.

#66 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-05-13 05:06 PM

"Who said anything about the mix of religious and secular items in a public museum, except you? "

Well...you, when you suggested we remove all religious items from museums currently mixed in with the secular items. That would also be where the ignorance about the current judicial approval when mixing was referenced.

I use the museum example because as Danforth mentioned, when he wasn't typing out retarded strawmen concerning what I believe about the ratio of religious to secular items in public museums, "We've long held that, within context, religious icons are fine."

Props are given to those that deserve them.

Nice work, President Obama!

ACORN: What are we ging to do about this corrupt organization?

I was going to post here that the right will FLIP FLOP and spin this against Obama for now NOT releasing the photos.

Good to see I wasn't disappointed.

I was going to post here that the right will FLIP FLOP and spin this against Obama for now NOT releasing the photos.

Good to see I wasn't disappointed.

#73 | Posted by COMMONSENSE at 2009-05-13 05:25 PM

Sorry, LoD, I got a little carried away....I just thought it was silly to suggest removing religious icons from museums as an answer to whether or not public funds should be used to pay for religious icons on public land. Again, apologies.

Having said that, would you want to see your taxes go up to pay for a Ramadan diorama in your public square?

Let's experiment for a minute.

How does a nation promote Freedom and Openness when it represses the bad things the Country has done??

Larry

No one said the photos of the bodies at Dachau should have been withheld. herm

Sorry, LoD, I got a little carried away....I just thought it was silly to suggest removing religious icons from museums as an answer to whether or not public funds should be used to pay for religious icons on public land. Again, apologies.

#75 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-05-13 05:30 PM

Having said that, would you want to see your taxes go up to pay for a Ramadan diorama in your public square?

#75 | Posted by Danforth at 2009-05-13 05:30 PM

I'm OK with taking down the 10 Commandments in court rooms, since it involves commandments to worship a specific God. I've changed positions on that, so you may have seen me argue the opposite before.

But regarding the cross in San Diego, I agree with the latest ruling, that "unlike Ten Commandments memorials -- which begin with the phrase, I am the Lord thy God' -- an unadorned cross "issues no commands, instructions, or teachings, nor does it express acknowledgement of anything," and that it "communicates the primarily non-religious messages of military service, death and sacrifice." Knowing that the legal battle for that may not be over, of course.

ACORN: What are we going to do about this corrupt organization?

Obama is fraud...as usual. Acting no better than Dubya...as usual. Corky defends his lies as pragmatism...as usual. These threads write themselves.

Poor Liberals, don't want to talk about your favorite organization, ACORN. Barney (Give me MO) Franks loves ACORN. Ask SANOBAMA.

Good for President Obama on this one.

Respectable move.

Dont' be fooled though. This has nothing to do with saving the lives of troops. This has everything to do with Obama finally coming to grips that he is President and the worse America looks (especially with more abuse photos circulating throughout the Arab world and Europe) with him as President the worse HE looks. So many anti-American terrorist groups and anti-American nations were empowered because the libs (especially the media) loved to bash Bush by bashing the war he started. They were too stupid to realize that in the end America was hurt more than Bush.

This is all about Obama's vanity.

I'd like to think that maybe once he got in there he found some things out that we don't know - and is acting as he believes is best.

I'm an idealist - I can't help it.

Hmmm

No one participated in my survey on post 76 yet.
I suppose the results might not be helpful to "the cause".
Well, no participation is a result in it's self.

P.S., Deflections are also quite telling.

The picture of bodies hanging from the bridge doesn't bother me as much as it would if those were the bodies of American soldiers hanging from the bridge.

That picture bothers me far less than the pictures of what we did in response in Fallujah, particularly the burned and exploded children.

For me it's a reminder of how pointless and destructive this war is. And a reminder of what the little old lady out there at the Proposition 1 tent across from the White House told me, presumably in response to the NATO issue winter coat I was wearing:

"Live by the bomb, die by the bomb!"

Releasing the rape videos while we still have troops in Iraq seems counter-productive.

I wonder, if Rogers had the pictures, would he publish them? Would there be a courtesy call to maybe talk things over White House first? That's what I would do.

Apparently donkeys and elephants are both packed full of shit. Its to bad that we are compelled to vote for the individuals with the most advertising$. I wonder how his plan for withdrawing from Iraq is progressing?

"Dont' be fooled though. This has nothing to do with saving the lives of troops. This has everything to do with Obama finally coming to grips that he is President and the worse America looks (especially with more abuse photos circulating throughout the Arab world and Europe) with him as President the worse HE looks. So many anti-American terrorist groups and anti-American nations were empowered because the libs (especially the media) loved to bash Bush by bashing the war he started. They were too stupid to realize that in the end America was hurt more than Bush.

This is all about Obama's vanity."

I was with you up until "the worse HE looks." I think it's more what someone later said: He's realizing the reality of politics. Or maybe it's as I (and others) have suggested for a long time. He's a centrist who campaigned as a liberal. Shit, Bush campaigned as a compassionate conservative. I didn't hear any Republicans calling him out the way some folks continue to ATTACK Obama. If he's more like Bush than not, why aren't the Bush supporters going, "Oh, cool, he won't fuck it ALL up"? Why not continue to attack him for the economic policies but admit that on national security he's not the moron he was made out to be? Oh, right, that would be logical. Heh heh. Why can't we all admit that politicians have to get into power in order to do anything at all, and sometimes that means playing the truth a bit? (I'm not saying I like that or that it meets my ideals, only observing reality.) And as for excoriating the liberals who voted for him, hoping he was ... maybe... something he's not. Why? Why not let them be disappointed? For Christ's sake, who were they gonna vote for _instead_? No self-respecting self-declared progressive was gonna vote for McCain-Fucking-Palin. Hell, no self-respecting, self-declared, old-school conservative was gonna vote for McCain-Fucking-Palin. (I don't put the fucking in for any reason other than emphasis. My father, an old school conservative, voted for Obama. After voting for Bush at least once and being disappointed over and over again.)

All politics is absurd.

I give Obama a serious 'Thank You'--for not releasing these photos.

It would have put our troops in unbelievable danger and torn up the country.

I give Obama a serious 'Thank You'--for not releasing these photos.

Why give that ridiculous piece of shit a "thank you" for not doing something that never should have been considered in the first place?

I agree Mao--but we could be seeing photos tomorrow. As it is --Obama flipped flopped.

I don't want the photos released and I am still waiting to see what the hell he is going to do with Gitmo detainess.

Someone in the cabal has turned this one around.

To explain his position, which was sharply criticized by the A.C.L.U., Mr. Obama spoke at the White House before flying to Arizona to deliver a commencement address. He suggested that the new mission in Iraq and Afghanistan could be imperiled by an old fight.

"The publication of these photos would not add any additional benefit to our understanding of what was carried out in the past by a small number of individuals," Mr. Obama told reporters on the South Lawn. "In fact, the most direct consequence of releasing them, I believe, would be to further inflame anti-American opinion and to put our troops in greater danger."

Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates said he had changed his mind about releasing the photographs, and suggested the president did as well, because of the strong views of the top commanders in Iraq and Afghanistan, Gen. Ray Odierno and Gen. David D. McKiernan, who is being replaced.

Why give that ridiculous piece of shit a "thank you" for not doing something that never should have been considered in the first place?

Tell me, does it bother you when people praise God that their missing child has made it home safely, when it was after all God who go let the child go missing in the first place?

"the cabal", Murphy? You mean the folks who were elected a few months ago in preference to the folks the electorate DIDN'T vote for?

THAT "cabal"?

The 'Prom Queen' is still smelling his roses.. and afraid of the 'thorny' realities...

Mao-
re: Why give that ridiculous piece of shit a "thank you" for not doing something that never should have been considered in the first place?

#93 | Posted by Jak_Se_Mao at 2009-05-13 11:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

By "something that never should have been considered in the first place" you of course mean the documentation and not the actual acts?

Boyd--why are you critical of others when you are just pissed you weren't able to flame at Bush for perceived crimes?

You were lusting for those photos to be put on the web.

I am saying Thanks--I am glad he is doing the right thing.

And yes the Chicago cabal is in the WH.

By "something that never should have been considered in the first place" you of course mean the documentation and not the actual acts?

The acts are the least of Pinche's worries. He's probably more likely to be struck by lightning than care that our troops rape and murder children.

The documentation of the acts was stupid, but not particularly troublesome if they could simply be destroyed, something Pinche thinks should have happened long ago.

It's the release of the documentation of the acts that would bother Pinche so much.

Snoofy-
Not to put to fine a point on it, but next time you wish to help me out in a debate please check the temperature in Hell, make sure it is below freezing, and then go there.

Murphy-
re: I am saying Thanks--I am glad he is doing the right thing.

And in your opinion the "right thing" is to continue to torture and make sure that the documentation of the "right thing" never sees the light of day?

How does it make us look when we are afraid to air our own dirty laundry and take ownership of that and vow to correct it when we hide it away to gather dust?? Explain THAT to Me.

Larry

Snoofy is on drugs..

These are supposed to be photos of the detainess--not raping and murdering children--but you are lusting for those all the same.

-----

From the article--

The photos "are not particularly sensational, especially when compared with the painful images that we remember from Abu Ghraib," Obama said, referring to the Iraqi military prison where photographs released in 2004 of detainees being abused and humiliated sparked widespread outrage.
-=---------
Obama doesn't want our troops killed over stupid photos.

It would cause violence where the troops are fighting.

If there are actions that need further review and prosecution--no doubt Obama would have them followed through on.

But for folks to gaggle and lust after photos--just to have more bashing--doesn't do our troops or the country any good.

I'm not sure what you are afraid of, Murphy, as you support everything the previous administration sanctioned as just.

Good night folks.

I can't stand Obama--he is a POS--he is wrong on the economy, the bailouts, spending, the budget, and just about everything.

Bush was wrong on the bailout and the spending was awful--but Obama has gone way beyond that.

But Obama does something I agree with--then I will say so.

And why don't you criticize Obama?

It's amazing you are deflecting like this?

This Poser, reject from Planet of the Apes, who undermines his own CIA, troops, country,and national security, for political reasons only, is in charge of YOUR safety and security....God help us....

I see right wingers praising him for holding them back. Dean_Buvia and Takeitez for example. Looks like it's mostly lefties upset with the decision, but they're just being consistent with their convictions also.

#74 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2009-05-13 05:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

WOW....two posters. I'm sold!

Funny how you angry libs get all irate over a terrorist getting water boarded then from civilians getting their heads cut off, an unwed couple getting shot for having affair or some little girl getting acid thrown in her face.

......your values are a but backwards don't you think? Not to worry. Obama just released one of the bombers of the USS Cole who is now a free man. Too bad the same can't be said for Daniel Pear.

reject from Planet of the Apes

It's hard to imagine why the GOP is crumbling. They're so good at reaching out and embracing minorities. Such a big tent...

ALEX

Well, it could be that they just took a major blow to the solar plexus on November 4 2008.

It could be because they got thumped soundly by an uppity black guy and they're in a state of shock.

It could be because they're trembling in fear that they're all going to be dead before the GOP ever sees power again.

It could be because their 'perfect storm' fizzled right under their nose.

It could be because they're hemorrhaging profusely from self inflicted wounds and can't find a cork big enough to stop it.

It could be because they never noticed that the noose around their neck for the last 8 years was tied to a tree limb on the other end.

It could be because they're 20 years behind the technological times and haven't quite figured out that when millions of voters gave their $5 - $10 -$20 campaign contributions to Obama, it created an enormous 'vested interest' in his winning.

This could go on forever, but who really cares.

As long as they're busy kicking each other in the ass for the next 8 years, Obama can get some work done.

Obama's lame excuse that it would jeopardize US forces is reminiscent of the pure BS we got from Bush and Cheney about keeping America safe. Has he really convinced himself that our enemies and friends are not quite sure of what we did? We were never surprised all that much at Bush's frequent journeys into reality-free zones but Obama was supposed to be different. Seems he's not.

#7 | Posted by brock at 2009-05-13 02:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Your moral certainty must make sleep sweet when your head hits the pillow at night.

But I wonder if this "lame excuse that it would jeopardize US forces blather" isn't your personal journey into a reality-free zone. Do you truly believe that these photos would not stoke outrage anew and lead to retaliation on any US forces captured, or for that matter, any US citizens kidnapped in the future? Are you okay with that?

even a broken watch is correct for 2 seconds each day.
Hussein did good on this one.
signed - vicious hateful right wing racist, Fredo.

photos need to be released so no one forgets to remember the atrocities Americans performed in the name of spreading freedom and democracy.

Do you truly believe that these photos would not stoke outrage anew and lead to retaliation on any US forces captured, or for that matter, any US citizens kidnapped in the future? Are you okay with that?

#114 | Posted by MACV1972 at 2009-05-14 06:51 AM | Reply | Flag:

Why would they? It's not like they depict torture or anything. You seem to be making the argument that these methods endanger our own troops.

PEOPLE

Let's not twist the meaning of what is going on here in order to bash the US Military and Bush admin, please. Dicks.

It is not like demented violence and torture are ocurring in the photos.

But why give the mental retards in these jihad groups something to use as fodder? Hell if they can whine and get world sympathy because Mohammed the pedophile is displayed in a Danish cartoon, then SURELY a picture of a jihadist forced to be on a leash like a dog ( big deal!) would cause the PC in the world to have an excuse to bitch about us

THAT is what it's about - I think Obama realizes this. He is just parsing his words on it. The true thought process, in clear minded people making these decisions is - you know, big deal, we put a black hood over someone's head. BUt the world loves to kick America around, and even though it is unjustified, these pic.s would give them another reason.
Obama is doin the right THANG!
He must have payed attention to Spike Lee.

Tomorrow Obama goes back to being a clueless douche.

photos need to be released so no one forgets to remember the atrocities Americans performed in the name of spreading freedom and democracy.

#116 | Posted by NerfHerder

I hope you get in a car accident.

Fredo-
re: It is not like demented violence and torture are ocurring in the photos..

You haven't seen the photos.

Tomorrow Obama goes back to being a clueless douche.
#118 | Posted by Fredo_C

You, on the other hand, don't get even one day off from playing that role. Perhaps if you'd been just a little more polite to your Fairy Godmother...

SURELY a picture of a jihadist forced to be on a leash like a dog ( big deal!)

Or maybe you have seen the photos.

Let's not twist the meaning of what is going on here in order to bash the US Military and Bush admin, please.

Let's not blame the US Military for Bush/Cheney. Let's not be such a hack.

So Doc and Boyd I dont know bout you , but I am with Pelosi on this whole mistreatment/torture issue. We could have done MORE, couldn't we have????

Or maybe you have seen the photos.

#122 | Posted by BetelG

Maybe I was there when the photos were taken, chum.

FACT!

That is what you are doing, though, "Fredo". You wish to conflate criticism of Bush/Cheney policy with criticism of the US Military. I'm growing weary of political hacks hiding behind their perverse interpretation of patriotism. Very weary.

Maybe I was there when the photos were taken, chum.

FACT!

#125 | Posted by Fredo_C at 2009-05-14 10:51 AM | Reply | Flag:

Maybe that's why you don't want them released. I'd sure hate to have war crimes charges hanging over my head. Of course you are full of shit, but that goes without saying.

PELOSI for POTUS 2012 !!!!!

the Torture Mistress of America!!!!!!!!

Story leaking now - she asked the CIA, during those briefings, if she could attend the waterboarding wearing a leather catsuit.

So Doc and Boyd I dont know bout you , but I am with Pelosi on this whole mistreatment/torture issue. We could have done MORE, couldn't we have????

#124 | Posted by Fredo_C at 2009-05-14 10:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

What kind of subhuman freak are you? Do you really think I care what the domestic political orientation of those responsible for torture are?

Boyd -

who is to blame for the pyramid of jihadists ?
Who is to blame for the black hood on the terrorist killer ?
who is to blame for the leash around the neck of the insane bloodthirsty Moslem ?

Bush/Cheney?
Or some of our guys stationed at Gitmo?

I just want you to know what you are talking about......

- wearing a leather catsuit.

But Fredo refused to lend her his.

What kind of subhuman freak are you?

#129 | Posted by BetelG

I live in your walls, like Bad Ronald

You are an embarrassment, Fredo.

Fredo-
re:who is to blame for the pyramid of jihadists ?
Who is to blame for the black hood on the terrorist killer ?
who is to blame for the leash around the neck of the insane bloodthirsty Moslem ?

Bush/Cheney?
Or some of our guys stationed at Gitmo?

You.

- wearing a leather catsuit.

But Fredo refused to lend her his.

#131 | Posted by Corky

Needs to be dry cleaned.....

embarassing...

Fredo-
re: Who is to blame for the black hood on the terrorist killer ?

Which "terrorist killer" was that? Do you have a name, and a crime or act of terrorism for that man?

re: who is to blame for the leash around the neck of the insane bloodthirsty Moslem ?

Which "bloodthirsty Moslem" was that? Do you have a name, or a "bloodthirsty" act that that man committed?

Again, in answer to your earlier question: You are responsible, and so am I for not stopping you.

WOW....two posters. I'm sold!

#110 | Posted by COMMONSENSE at 2009-05-14 01:15 AM

That's one of the hard bargains in a democracy. You choose to defend torture, the breaking of laws, authoritarianism, but we are both responsible for what our elected gov't does in our name.

Adios

Fredo-
re: Who is to blame for the black hood on the terrorist killer ?

Which "terrorist killer" was that? Do you have a name, and a crime or act of terrorism for that man?

re: who is to blame for the leash around the neck of the insane bloodthirsty Moslem ?

Which "bloodthirsty Moslem" was that? Do you have a name, or a "bloodthirsty" act that that man committed?

Again, in answer to your earlier question: You are responsible, and so am I for not stopping you.

#136 | Posted by BetelG

Oh you think I am being assumptive?

Are you making any assumptions about the environment as it really exists in Gitmo?
Do you know anything about these animals yourself?
Do you know anything about if they are being tortured? Or did the NY times tell you that.
Maybe only 15 mins allowance of American Idol on their TV is torture?
Do you know if you were played for a fool by the hate America Dems during election '08 ?
Do you know why it is that Pelosi condoned and encouraged rigorous waterbaording when you could not hear her on the TV ?
what do you know, Boyd???
Who can you trust?

Fredo-
re: Who is to blame for the black hood on the terrorist killer ?

Which "terrorist killer" was that? Do you have a name, and a crime or act of terrorism for that man?

re: who is to blame for the leash around the neck of the insane bloodthirsty Moslem ?

Which "bloodthirsty Moslem" was that? Do you have a name, or a "bloodthirsty" act that that man committed?

Again, in answer to your earlier question: You are responsible, and so am I for not stopping you.

#136 | Posted by BetelG

Oh you think I am being assumptive?

Are you making any assumptions about the environment as it really exists in Gitmo?
Do you know anything about these animals yourself?
Do you know anything about if they are being tortured? Or did the NY times tell you that.
Maybe only 15 mins allowance of American Idol on their TV is torture?
what do you know, Boyd???
Do you know WHY Pelosi encouraged very rigorous waterboardig of the jihadist fucks when you were not listening to her on the TV?
Who can you trust Boyd???

This is a huge mistake. Every step Obama takes to obscure and protect the abuses of the Bush administration brings him one step closer to being its successor.

The problem here is that we committed these abuses, not that people are seeking to bring them to light.

#15 | Posted by rcade

Wrong.

The problem here is innocent dead people.

Release the photos and the cartoon-photo-slipofthetongue-
crazed Islamofacists will unlease a new wave of Jihad.

And, Obama is at least smart enough to know it would be all his fault.

"Release the photos and the cartoon-photo-slipofthetongue- crazed Islamofacists will unlease a new wave of Jihad. And, Obama is at least smart enough to know it would be all his fault."

So President O has Bendover's enthusiastic okay for caving in to ae potential threat of them thar nasty ragheads being nastier. Doesn't sound like the rightie saber-rattling I'm used to. herm

So President O has Bendover's enthusiastic okay for caving in to ae potential threat of them thar nasty ragheads being nastier. Doesn't sound like the rightie saber-rattling I'm used to. herm

#143 | Posted by herm

Perhaps that's because you might be viewing everything, and everybody, in terms of Right and Left!?

I'm neither Right or Left.

I despise The Dems and Repubs equally because they are both controlled by traitors who are anti-sovereignty, anti-capitalist, and anti-constitutional.

Like a broken clock, Obama is correct with this decision however.

Release the "torture" photos, and more innocent people will die - simple cause and affect.

Are you okay with more innocent people dying at the hands of Lord-Of-The-Rings-esque zealots?

I'm not.

This is like saying that the My Lai massacre should have been covered up until after the Vietnam War. That's not how democracies fight wars.
#33 | Posted by rcade

Really, Rcade? The My Lai massacre? That's the problem with most of you libs, you actually believe that a few of our military personnel acting like fraternity boys is equivalent to the killing of thousands of innocents.

We're talking about rape and murder and some very serious charges."

#43 | Posted by truthhurts

And those who committed these acts are being prosecuted like they should be. Does this mean that the world needs to see the pictures of the events? We've all seen how the religion of peace has behaved after cartons were made of the prophet Mohammed. Do you really want to see what they will be like after seeing pictures of their brethren being treated poorly? It is obvious that you could care less about the men and women who are fighting for our country right now, because their lives would become that much more difficult upon the release of any photos.

I hope America is still in Iraq and Afghanistan when it happens.

#53 | Posted by Tosser

You are truly scum of the Earth, Tossoff. Real nice of you to wish for the deaths of Americans. I can't believe scum like you is even allowed to post here. I think anyone who wishes daily for people to die is a good reason to be banned for life.

photos need to be released so no one forgets to remember the atrocities Americans performed in the name of spreading freedom and democracy.

#116 | Posted by NerfHerder

Atrocities? I wasn't aware that putting a bag over a guys head, making guys lay naked on top of each other, and making people stand for long periods of time were considered atrocities. If what we've done are atrocities, what do you call what Hitler did?

But no need to be impatient. They will surface somehow, somewhere.

I hope America is still in Iraq and Afghanistan when it happens.

#53 | Posted by Tosser at 2009-05-13 04:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

....and I hope India turn that's barren wasteland you call home into a parking lot.

We can all dream, can't we?

Do you exhibit any emotional response to THIS picture?
Do you remember how you felt when you first saw it some years ago?
How does it make you feel today?
Would you categorize this image as a reminder or does it conjure up more primal emotions?

-No. None.
-Yes, I do. The same as I feel today.
-See above. No emotional response.
-I categorize that picture as an example of what desperate, irrational people will do to their perceived enemy. Kinda like us, in a way.

Basically, if the photos are being used as evidence in a trial, swell. Release them after the trial is over.

If the government has no intentions of putting the responsible parties on trial, then just go ahead and release the pictures now.

The world needs to see.

What happened to waiting 40-50 years to release sensitive shit like this? Like was Dr Marting Luther King a communist etc ...we used to seal up stuff till guys like Larry are in a wheelchair someplace and barely type blather on the DR lol
Darkstar

He figured out that Pelosi was playing him and that they knew from 2002 on about the waterboarding.... How can he go after bush when the guys on your team were playing in the same game?

Bye Bye MRS. Pelosi....

It is truly historical watching all these Neocons hiding behind one Dem skirt..

The libs on this board are just upset because the God-King Obama LIED his ass off to get these sucker libs to vote for him.

The Patriot Act continues on strong. Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan rage on. Gitmo open for business. Holding some prisoners indefinitely and without trial on the table. Bush 44 in office.

Nice CHANGE libs! Bwhwhwhahahhahaah!!!!