Hillary voters.

Bush family members.

How many gun owners in the U.S. are too irresponsible to handle their guns properly and know when -- and when not -- to use them? 10 percent? 25?

Texas, BIG FUCKING SURPRISE, this is what happens when these One Tooth Fucking Assholes that run that State allow these INCEST driven Right Wing Nuts to have guns without checking their mental state.....NRA Still proud of your selves, FUCKING PRICKS, IF ANY OF THOSE THAT WERE SHOT DIES, The State of Texas an the NRA should be sued by the Family for all their are worth. TEXAS an the NRA two of the more useless Organizations in the whole Fucking Country.......

This is when the rest of the nation gets to see if Texas is serious about law and order or if the shoot an intruder in the back laws are just targeted at brown folk.

Sure, we the Texas legislature will give you the rights to defend your property with a gun without fear of prosecution, however, if you go off half cocked you will suffer the maximum sentence. These two hillbillies(apologies to most other hillbillies)should be charged with a count of attempted murder for anyone that was with the group that was shot at. In addition, every possible charge on the books should be tossed their way. Those two should be looking at 40-70 years in prison each. Two of the ATVers are in critical condition which means long recovery times and massive expense. Their lives ar changed forever.

"The Muhs have been charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and remained in jail Friday. "

Anybody that butt-ugly should be locked up as a public nuisance. What morons. Trinity River; figures.

to use them? 10 percent? 25?

#3 | Posted by rcade

laws are just targeted at brown folk.

#5 | Posted by Reagan58

Sure, why don't you kick up the numbers to justify your claim.And as Reagan58 claims, make it a racial issue also.
Every time people act criminally with weapons the pants pissers try to group the whole society of gun owners into the same category.
Glad to see the majority of states legislation doesn't agree with you.
Your lies and narrow eyed vision will come back to bite you because you're to stupid to understand what you are suggesting.

rwd

They should also be made to pay their Medical expenses.
Make 'em sell their guns and mobile home too.

"10 percent? 25?"

And that's just the cops.

Zat, if there were laws with respect to ugly, I'd be afeared to leave the house. That said, there are laws about shooting folks, at least in my red state. This is where the rubber meets the road as far as the Texas shoot laws, do these people get what functionally amounts to life in prison or do they get an ADW slap on the wrist?

RightwingDong seems to need an orthopod with all that reichwing kneejerking.

At least Cheney shot a lawyer.

So, BLT is married???

Or is that his sister?

The State of Texas an the NRA should be sued by the Family for all their are worth.

#4 | Posted by celisary

And while we're at it dipshit,why not sue the ACLU for all the porn and pedophilia they defend that leads to sex crimes.
You stupid fuckers are a danger to the whole country with your bumper sticker brain logic.

rwd

"You stupid fuckers are a danger to the whole country with your bumper sticker brain logic."

#14 | Posted by rightwingdong

Ahh...the ol' self-retorting retort.

Surely shooters and shootees continue to scream "Second Amendment!" herm

I'd be afeared to leave the house. That said, there are laws about shooting folks, at least in my red state. This is where the rubber meets the road as far as the Texas shoot laws, do these people get what functionally amounts to life in prison or do they get an ADW slap on the wrist?

#10 | Posted by Reagan58

There are laws about shooting folks in every state you stupid fuck.Did we read the same article because I didn't see anything about race in it.
Your blatant attempt to insert conjecture into your comments show just how narrow minded you are.

rwd

Yee-haw! That's mah state!

Join along:
"Texas, mah Texas,
the Lone Star state of hicks.
Texas, mah Texas,
where meth freaks git their fix."

RWD:

got dissemble?

#15

The lefty idiom......

When there is nothing meaningful to say,say something stupid.

rwd

How many gun owners in the U.S. are too irresponsible to handle their guns properly and know when -- and when not -- to use them? 10 percent? 25?

#3 | Posted by rcade at 2009-05-09 09:38 AM | Reply | Flag: insipid

Wow, another illustration of how 95% of statistics are made up on the spot...

Based your "quote" then we'd expect to see thousands of people shot every day. Funny that....

"When there is nothing meaningful to say, say something stupid."

And once more the rightie Donald, unable to muster any fact in his (?) behalf, falls back to his ilk's standard lame retort, "you're stoopid." herm

#22 | Posted by herm

I just looked up stupid in the dictionary and saw a yellow stain with your name on it next to the word.

rwd

.......one look at their pictures and I could hear banjos playing.....

"I could hear banjos playing"

"rwd," call me if you develop anything meaningful ... herm

ZAT

Pete can also read and write. LOL

What an amazing 90 year old. Sharp as a tack and still gigging. Wow.

"Wow, another illustration of how 95% of statistics are made up on the spot..."

It was a question, you moron, not an assertion.

Do you even know the difference?

"Pete can also read and write."

ROFL!

And sing.

I was just defending banjos.

So, BLT is married???

Or is that his sister?

#13 | Posted by Angrydad

same thing.

It was an assertion phrased as a question, Rogers.....er, 'Angry dad'.....

ZAT

I don't have anything against banjos LOL

But, they were the soundtrack of the Smokies until Democrats insisted on education, electricity, and opportunity in that region. Had it not been for Democrats most of the BL2's of the world wouldn't be able to rail on endlessly.

John Hartford was another really smart banjo player. Bela Fleck is a genius with one in his hands.

This is what a 'Right Wing Don' looks like.

......I like bluegrass myself......

.......I didn't mean to start a war on the merits of the banjo.....

......but when I saw the mug shots of the Muh's...I could hear the theme from "Deliverance".......

I could hear the theme from "Deliverance"......."

To this day, there's plenty of folk in Rabun County who'll take issue with the mention of James Dicky.

Oops...that's Dickey.

SKIZZIKS

If you ever get to Nashville, give me a shout There are a few places like the Bluegrass Inn (that's been around for decades) where you can hear some exceptional bluegrass. They have legends (and many of the top recording musicians) playing on weeknights every week.

A few years ago I was catching a flight from Chicago back to Nashville and noticed a guy sitting with a banjo case leaning on his seat. Alan O'Bryant, the banjo player in the Nashville Bluegrass Band (featured in the movie "Oh, Brother Where Art Thou" as the Soggy Mountain Boys). Friendly guy.

The running joke among us musicians is "something you'll never hear is a banjo player with a beeper" or "something you'll never see is a banjo player in a Mercedes".

So, I walked up to him and asked "do you have a beeper", to which he replied by taking out the keys to his Mercedes. LOL

To get me back, he came up to me when they announced the boarding call and said loudly enough in my right ear "Hey, did you hear what the one Palestinian woman said to the other? 'Does this bomb make my butt look big?' ". There was a TSA agent to my left. I got picked to have my carry on baggage checked. LOL

...because you're to stupid to understand what you are suggesting.

#7 | Posted by rightwingdong

"to stupid"
Classic!!

How many gun owners in the U.S. are too irresponsible to handle their guns properly and know when -- and when not -- to use them? 10 percent? 25?

#3 | Posted by rcade

80 million gun owners times 25% would be 20 million. Lets try the 10%. That would be 8 million. Damn, that seems real high to me. Do you have a link to thoes percents?

#38 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

......it's a deal.....

"Do you have a link to thoes percents?"

See #28, nitwit.

Texas, BIG FUCKING SURPRISE, this is what happens when these One Tooth Fucking Assholes that run that State allow these INCEST driven Right Wing Nuts to have guns without checking their mental state.....NRA Still proud of your selves, FUCKING PRICKS, IF ANY OF THOSE THAT WERE SHOT DIES, The State of Texas an the NRA should be sued by the Family for all their are worth. TEXAS an the NRA two of the more useless Organizations in the whole Fucking Country.......

#4 | Posted by celisary at 2009

there is only one other as pathetic human on this thread and it is this one

So, BLT is married???

Or is that his sister?

#13 | Posted by Angrydad at 2009

Poor ol' BLT.......

BUT the pics do give hope to many of you out there

it is obvious that the old saying about there is someone out there for everyone is true
I mean is there anyone else in the world that would want to wake up with her in bed next to besides this guy.

See #28, nitwit.

#42 | Posted by Angrydad

Was that in reference to the 25%? Damn, I realy missed that. I can't beleive how smart you are.

OMG I just looked at the pic of the Muhs in the article.

Good lord!! Jak Se Muh must be real proud!!

Jak Se Mao must be his way of hiding his true ID:

Jack C. Muh

AU...please...thats too easy..AND ALREADY used...lol

my real fear is that these two may have or will be breeding in the future.

and YES being a proud texan doesnt mean that I automatically approve of this tragic shit from a pair of people like this...

and I agree with one other poster..if you have spent much time around many parts of the trinity river..........you know that these people could very possibly win a trinity river beauty contest.

my real fear is that these two may have or will be breeding in the future.

Too late. The Muh's have spread their seed:

Jack C. Muh

Now I know why that little twerp is batshit crazy (when he isn't shitfaced)

nd I agree with one other poster..if you have spent much time around many parts of the trinity river..........you know that these people could very possibly win a trinity river beauty contest.

That bad, huh? Wow.

"Bela Fleck"

Now there is a banjo player.

The Trinity River flows through Dallas.
Then it just gets uglier all the way to the Gulf of Mexico.

Ya, he's incredible and groundbreaking. The Wooten Brothers don't suck either. Amazing musicians all.

Aggravated assault?

Sounds to me like 'attempted murder'.

I don't think they'll pass the background check for buying a firearm in the future.

Aggravated assault?

Sounds to me like 'attempted murder'.

Posted by COMMONSENSE

The victims must have been tan enough to look Mexican. Down there it seems shooting Mexicans gets somewhat of a pass, or in the case of the guy the dispatchers told to go inside, a walk.

Wow, another illustration of how 95% of statistics are made up on the spot...
#21 | Posted by daprof at 2009-05-09 10:32 AM Reply Flag:SELF-RETORTING RETORT

"They're out here tearing up the levee, so I shot them."

Suddenly Texans now care about levees? To recycle some DR Texans words (paraphrasing): I guess they should just pack their stuff and move if they need levees!

The victims must have been tan enough to look Mexican. Down there it seems shooting Mexicans gets somewhat of a pass, or in the case of the guy the dispatchers told to go inside, a walk.

#57 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2009-05-09 12:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

Agreed. It will be interesting to see how this is handled. I think they're going to get some time for this and rightfully so, but it is a gun crime in Texas involving a white person with the gun. Could go either way.

The Trinity River flows through Dallas.
Then it just gets uglier all the way to the Gulf of Mexico.

#53 | Posted by Zatoichi

UH...lets not get carried away with this shall we...

The Trinity River flows through Dallas.
Then it just gets uglier all the way to the Gulf of Mexico.

By the time it gets to Houston:

thats right AU

pick on an 80 something grandmother ....

and here at mothers day too.......

tsk tsk tsk.....

Wow...what a backwards state "Texass" is. How bout the story about the Texas highway cops ROBBING motorists?!?!? Can't make this shit up fast enough. hahahah

"Texas highway cops"

They were East Texas locals.

"Your lies and narrow eyed vision will come back to bite you because you're to stupid to understand what you are suggesting.

rwd

#7 | Posted by rightwingdon at 2009-05-09 10:06 AM"

FF!!!

pick on an 80 something grandmother ....

AFKABL2

I damn her for not douching immediately after that minute of passion back in 1948 when W was conceived. So, yes, she is a "mother"!

Did you read the caption?

Every time people act criminally with weapons the pants pissers try to group the whole society of gun owners into the same category.

I didn't say that all gun owners are like these two. But if you believe (a) a lot of Americans are stupid and irresponsible and (b) there's a right to keep and bear arms, it logically follows that a lot of stupid and irresponsible people in this country own guns. I just wonder how high the percentage of armed idiots is. My guess is that 15 percent of the guns in this country are owned by people who have no business owning something so dangerous because they can't handle the responsibility. We'd be better off if we required strict licensing and training for gun owners, like we do drivers.

Wow, another illustration of how 95% of statistics are made up on the spot...

I didn't make up a statistic -- I asked a question. We are surrounded by evidence every day that a lot of our fellow Americans are stupid. Yesterday's evidence was the ghost-riding phenomenon ("hey, let's jump out of a moving car and run around! Brilliant!"). I just wonder how many of those rocket scientists are armed.

And no one drives without a license, right?

I would agree that many gun owners shouldn't be gun owners, but the fact is, most gun crimes are committed with illegal guns by unregistered gun owners.

Personally, I would eliminate 75% of all guns in world.

And I am pretty sure I am one of only a few people who have have been shot in the face point blank by a M-16 A2 and survived to tell about it.

Wow...what a backwards state "Texass" is. How bout the story about the Texas highway cops ROBBING motorists?!?!? Can't make this shit up fast enough. hahahah

#64 | Posted by Redsoxfan at

well its okay to assume you are from boston being a redsox fan and even if you arent it doesnt matter

are you aware that for instance the busing issue was much more violent and worse than ANY instance in texas.............I am sure you arent..

and its not that texas is the only place where bad things like this happen...its just that there is such a jealous preoccupation with texas that you hear about it more often.....

its okay though........you are excused.

A child who was among four alleged trespassers shot in Liberty County died this morning at Memorial Hermann Hospital-Texas Medical Center, Liberty County Sheriff's Cpl. Hugh Bishop has confirmed.

yes I read the caption and it did remind me a little of several sentences from an "TELEPROMPTER FREE" obama.............

and of course it doesnt matter that I am presently in the BARBARA BUSH library...........where she has spent countless hours helping disadvantaged kids learn how to appreciate reading.........damn cold hearted republicans

"I damn her for not douching immediately after that minute of passion back in 1948 when W was conceived."

Awww, now I'm disappointed, AU. I thought you were a member of the "intelligentsia." This looks more like a Rosie O'Donnell, Cindy Sheehan or Danni statement.

By the way, rain, thunder, lightening, the whole nine yards just began. I got a little wet, but I got the mowing and-eating done so the rest will be easy.

"How many gun owners in the U.S. are too irresponsible to handle their guns properly and know when -- and when not -- to use them?"

Probably the same percentage that own and mistreat Pit Bulls and Rottweilers. It's a shame we can't criminalize and prosecute "stupid."

I am a member of the intelligencia. That's why I wish W had never been conceived. The country would have been a lot better off. Jeb would have been a much better Bush to run for Prez. That's a pipe dream after W.

PS Sarkozy's wife doesn't wear panties.

Intelligentsia's all over wish the same about W and that minute of passion in 1948

and of course it doesnt matter that I am presently in the BARBARA BUSH library...........where she has spent countless hours helping disadvantaged kids learn how to appreciate reading.........damn cold hearted republicans

How in the world did she miss getting YOU interested? LOL

come on AU...dont be a snob..........

and I believe in the rule of law....do whatever the law allows to these people but to use this as a political tool to further attempt to erode the 2nd amendment wont work...or it shouldnt.
a tragic accident??? dont know but again...they should be punished to the full extent of the law as it applies in whatever details come out in this case.

but being TEXANS and it happening in texas is completely beside the point.

"PS Sarkozy's wife doesn't wear panties."

Bet ME....she wears some primo panties...at least sometimes:

AU..

come on that swipe wasnt even worthy of briwo and he's a simpleton.....

must go

have a great weekend...

"Intelligentsia's all over wish the same about W and that minute of passion in 1948"

If they make statements like that we have different perceptions of "intelligentsia."

JEST

I was trying to give you a good picture to ponder.

I'm suggesting she doesn't wear panties when she's in a skirt or pants. Easier access for Nick at lunchtime.

JEST

So you're saying intelligent people would want another 8 years of Bush?

(insert banjo music here ... )

but being TEXANS and it happening in texas is completely beside the point.

Texas could easily be a factor in why these two thought it was OK to shoot. It's the state where it's OK to shoot somebody who might be burglarizing your neighbor's house.

AU..

come on that swipe wasnt even worthy of briwo and he's a simpleton.....

You're IN a library .. and yet !

And I am pretty sure I am one of only a few people who have have been shot in the face point blank by a M-16 A2 and survived to tell about it.

#71 | Posted by r_zeitgeist

Yeah, just like you have a "Master's" degree in Psychology.

I'm calling bullshit on this one, too.

"So you're saying intelligent people would want another 8 years of Bush?"

No...I'm saying intelligent people wouldn't make remarks like that about his mother and would be more clever in insulting him. You know, I didn't want Bush either, but I didn't want Gore or Kerry more than I didn't want Bush. Triple that for '08 too. In fact, that has been the case a lot lately.

JEST

Evidently you didn't click the link that went along with my comment. Her statement was amazingly insensitive and provided a window to her soul. Had nothing to do with her age. She should know better by 80.

Let's hear all your bluster about decency when 101st shows back up posting from 'work'.

Irresponsible gun use by the scared citizenry is a common phenomena, and another reason why gun violence needlessly kills and maims so many innocent Americans every year. There may not be a solution on a national level, but I think on an individual level intelligent people should think long and hard about the overall benefit of keeping firearms at home, especially for "self defense".

The victims must have been tan enough to look Mexican. Down there it seems shooting Mexicans gets somewhat of a pass, or in the case of the guy the dispatchers told to go inside, a walk.

#57 | Posted by AMERICANNUTTY

You racist bastard you assuming all "tan" people are Mexicans. The 2 burglars Joe Horn shot weren't Mexicans.

You don't get a pass down here for shooting "tan" people you get a pass for shooting burglars.

I bet there haven't been to many burglaries in Mr. Horn's neighborhood since his action.

You don't get a pass down here for shooting "tan" people you get a pass for shooting burglars.

Is that a fact? Even when the dispatcher tells you repeatedly NOT to go outside and take the law into your own hands? Give me a break! This guy's a complete imbecile all to typical of attitudes in Texas:

Dispatcher: "I want you to listen to me carefully, OK?"

Horn: "Yes?"

Dispatcher: "I got ultras coming out there. I don't want you to go outside that house. And I don't want you to have that gun in your hand when those officers are poking around out there."

Horn: "I understand that, OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir, and you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the First and you know it and I know it."

Dispatcher: "I understand."

Horn: "I have a right to protect myself ..."

Dispatcher: "I'm ..."

Horn: "And a shotgun is a legal weapon, it's not an illegal weapon."

Dispatcher: "No, it's not, I'm not saying that, I'm just not wanting you to ..."

Horn: "OK, he's coming out the window right now, I gotta go, buddy. I'm sorry, but he's coming out the window. "

Dispatcher: "No, don't, don't go out the door, Mister Horn. Mister Horn..."

Horn: "They just stole something, I'm going out to look for 'em, I'm sorry, I ain't letting them get away with this ----. They stole something, they got a bag of stuff. I'm doing it!"

Dispatcher: "Mister, do not go outside the house."

Horn: "I'm sorry, this ain't right, buddy."

Dispatcher: "You gonna get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun, I don't care what you think."

Horn: "You wanna make a bet?"

Dispatcher: "Stay in the house."

Horn: "There, one of them's getting away!

Dispatcher: "That's alright, property's not something worth killing someone over. OK? Don't go out the house, don't be shooting nobody. I know you're pissed and you're frustrated but don't do it."

Horn: "They got a bag of loot."

Dispatcher: "OK. How big is the bag?" He then talks off, relaying the information.

Dispatcher: "Which way are they going?"

Horn: "I can't ... I'm going outside. I'll find out."

Dispatcher: "I don't want you going outside, Mister..."

Horn: "Well, here it goes buddy, you hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going."

Dispatcher: "Don't go outside."

On the tape of the 911 call, the shotgun can be heard being cocked and Horn can be heard going outside and confronting someone.

"Boom! You're dead!" he shouts. A loud bang is heard, then a shotgun being cocked and fired again, and then again.

This is only a 'rational' person in Texas. One letter to the Houston Chronicle said, "He didn't shoot them in the legs, to make sure they did not run away, or hold them at gunpoint until police arrived. No, he was judge, jury and executioner."

PS

I have nothing against people with tans OR Mexicans.

I do have an issue with morons like Joe Horn and the Muhs.

"Hey Pa, theys some folks getting close to the meth lab! Gimme yer gun!"

#95 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2009-05-09 02:16 PM | Reply | Flag: ignores grand jury no-bill

The fact the Grand Jury gave him a pass speaks volumes about Texas attitudes, not Joe Horn.

"And no one drives without a license, right?

#70 | Posted by Zatoichi"

And those folks usually kill innocent people, too.
See Nick Adenhart.

ZAT

The little of the transcript I posted about Joe Horn shows that

A. He has little regard for what law enforcement tells him

B. They told him umpteen times to NOT go outside

C. He did not shoot them in the legs or hold them at gunpoint until the police arrived

D. He acted as judge, jury, and executioner

Who's to say the Muhs didn't feel they were justified in shooting these people after Horn got off scott free?

The fact they're only charged with 'aggrevated assault' and not 'attempted murder' says a lot too. What? They thought they'd just 'wound' them? Sure they did.

" Horn: "I understand that, OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir, and you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the First and you know it and I know it."

RCADE is right. Too many dumb fucks have guns.

'aggrevated(sic) assault' and not 'attempted murder'

I think it's manslaughter now.

"Too many dumb fucks have guns."

Wow, these two look like they've been left out in the rain too long.

Posted on this earlier but the intraweb ate it.

So, short and sweet?

Because this whackjob lady called 911 herself before taking turns shooting a family out having fun and stopping fer a pee break she obviously fancied herself and her dim-witted husband the next celebrity shooters a'la Joe Horn.

This is wot happens when you make heroes out of assholes.

Not naming any names.

Be Well.

You're a good looking gal, ZAT

LOL

ZAT

They should be charged with 1st degree murder. The intention to kill them was there. Aggravated assault or even manslaughter isn't appropriate.

(I know how to spell 'aggravated', thanks. Typing too fast)

Careful or I'll scan my license.
Then you'll be sorry.

It wasn't premeditated murder, but they shouldn't see the light of day for a long, long time.

And I don't agree with Joe Horn, either, but the fact is the grand jury no-billed him.

#94 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

O.K. your little doctored transcript of the 911 calls proves you are wrong and I was right that you get a pass for shooting burglars. Nothing was said at all about the color of these burglars are you suggesting that if these burglars were white, black or any other color it would have worked out differently for them or Mr. Horn? The evidence was brought in front of a grand jury that was not all white and they decided he was justified that's our system is this country.

Just because the police (which the dispatcher wasn't) tell you not to do something because its a bad idea doesn't mean if you do it anyway you are breaking the law.

He said MOVE you're dead not BOOM you're dead but nice try there.

Aiming a loaded shotgun and pulling the trigger was a premeditated act in this case. They issued no warning and the family posed no threat to them. They were not approaching the Muhs house. The fact children were shot indicates they couldn't even see who was out there on the levee. Of course, Jack Daniels may have played a role from the looks of these two winners.

Either way, 1st or 2nd degree murder is the appropriate charge, not manslaughter. That's what you're charged with when an accidental death occurs. This was no accident.

wonder how many people have died from letting someone stick there dick up there ass.we have to outlaw this muderous pratice.

1st degree murder is a planned act. This was 2nd degree murder. And they need to spend a long time in a tiny cell. Alone.

O.K. your little doctored transcript of the 911 calls proves you are wrong and I was right that you get a pass for shooting burglars.

TXLIBERTARIAN

Ya, it proves dumb fucks who won't listen to law enforcement get a pass for shooting and killing people by shooting them in the back. Is that the new 'cowboy way'? They used to call a person who does that a 'yellow bellied coward'.

BTW I know a lot of people from Texas. Only about half are dumb fucks. So, I can't say all Texans are dumb fucks.

BTW I posted that quote verbatim from the transcript of the 911 call. I'd hate to call you a dumb fuck, but ...

" Horn: "I understand that, OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir, and you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the First and you know it and I know it."

RCADE is right. Too many dumb fucks have guns.

#101 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

You are right he was wrong the laws all over the country didn't change on September the first but they certainly did change in Texas on September the first of that year look into it.

TXLIBERTARIAN

What do concealed weapons laws have to do with shooting two people who posed no threat to you in the back with a shotgun against the repeated orders of a law enforcement?

God.

Well we all know the wonderful track record CBS haas on documents

transcript from CNN

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: I'm John King, in for Anderson.
Tonight, a question: How far would you go to protect your kids and grandkids? how about your home? Now, what about your neighbor's home? We're talking about deadly force here.

Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Mr. Horn, do not go outside the house.

JOE HORN, TEXAS RESIDENT: I'm sorry. This ain't right, buddy.
911 OPERATOR: You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think.
HORN: You want to make a bet? I'm going to kill them.
911 OPERATOR: OK? Stay in the house.
HORN: They're getting away.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KING: Well, they didn't get away. Joe Horn kept his promise.

Tonight, the question: Was it justified? Was it justice? You might be surprised at what the law says and doesn't say about deadly force.

We begin with the kind of thing that you hope doesn't happen where you live, even though you worry it might. Crime is on the rise in American suburbs. So is fear and outrage.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: Pasadena 911. What is your emergency?

HORN: Burglars are breaking into a house next door.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

TUCHMAN: A burglary at his next-door neighbor's house in the Houston suburb of Pasadena. It was 2:00 in the afternoon.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

HORN: I have got a shotgun. Do you want me to stop them?

911 OPERATOR: Nope, don't do that. Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

TUCHMAN: Three minutes into the call, and the 61-year-old was getting increasingly upset as he watched the two men.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

HORN: I'm not going to let them get away with them. I can't take a chance on getting killed over this, OK?

911 OPERATOR: No.

(CROSSTALK)

HORN: I'm going to shoot. I'm going to shoot.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

TUCHMAN: On September 1, Texas strengthened a law giving civil immunity to people who defend themselves with deadly force, not only in their homes, but in their cars and workplaces. But this was a neighbor's house, and the 911 operator warned Horn 13 times during the call to stay inside his home.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

(CROSSTALK)

HORN: OK. He's coming out the window right now. I got to go, buddy. I'm sorry, but he's coming out the window.

(CROSSTALK)

911 OPERATOR: No, don't. Don't go out the door.

Mr. Horn? Mr. Horn?

HORN: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) They just stole somebody. I'm going out the window. I'm sorry.

911 OPERATOR: Don't go outside.

HORN: I ain't going to let them get away with this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) They stole something. They got a bag of something.

911 OPERATOR: Don't go outside the house.

HORN: I'm doing it.

911 OPERATOR: OK?

Mr. Horn, do not go outside the house.

HORN: I'm sorry. This ain't right, buddy.

911 OPERATOR: You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think.

HORN: You want to make a bet? I'm going to kill them.

911 OPERATOR: OK? Stay in the house.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

TUCHMAN: Joe Horn would have won that bet.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: I don't want you going outside, Mr. Horn.

HORN: Well, here it goes, buddy. You hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going.

911 OPERATOR: Don't go outside.

HORN: Move, you're dead.

(GUNSHOTS)

(END AUDIO CLIP)

What do concealed weapons laws have to do with shooting two people who posed no threat to you in the back with a shotgun against the repeated orders of a law enforcement?

God.

#117 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

It has nothing to do with it so why do you bring it up.

I was refering to the "Castle Doctrine"

I don't hate calling you a dumb fuck I do it with pleasure.

You are right he was wrong the laws all over the country didn't change on September the first but they certainly did change in Texas on September the first of that year look into it.

#116 | Posted by TXLIBERTARIAN

The law that went into effect in Texas on September 1st, 2007 (which you raised as an issue) had to do with concealed weapons. Take a look in the mirror. You'll be looking at a dumb fuck who can't keep his debating points straight

CNN's transcript makes Joe Horn look equally a dumb fuck who was in no danger, wouldn't listen to law enforcement, took the law into his own hands, and shot and killed two people in the back.

You are definitely one of the dumb fucks of Texas if you can't see what's wrong with that picture.

#3 | POSTED BY RCADE
"How many gun owners in the U.S. are too irresponsible to handle their guns properly and know when -- and when not -- to use them? 10 percent? 25?"

Did you guys even read that post? Were you honestly stupid enough to think Rcade was quoting ACTUAL statistics? It's called "wondering aloud".

As if there were stats on how "irresponsible" a gun owner is....

Apparently you didn't read it, because THREE of you jumped all over the stat thing in an orgy of idiocy.

First we have #7 RIGHTWINGDON saying:
"Sure, why don't you kick up the numbers to justify your claim."

Who ironically follows that with:
"Every time people act criminally with weapons the pants pissers try to group the whole society of gun owners into the same category."

Really, RWD? Every time? Hmmm.....are you going to link the stats for that claim?

But he's not alone, as #21 DAPROF chimes in with:
"Wow, another illustration of how 95% of statistics are made up on the spot."

Are you sure it's 95%? Are you going to post any stats on that?
But yes, I get the joke, in case you're wondering.

But then #40 SNIPER also seems to think there are stats on irresponsiblity in gun owners....
"Do you have a link to thoes percents?"

Well fiind thoes fer ya rite awey, Snoopy.

But RWD wasn't finished yet!
#14 | POSTED BY RIGHTWINGDON
"And while we're at it dipshit,why not sue the ACLU for all the porn and pedophilia they defend that leads to sex crimes."

Hang on....you're saying pedophilia LEADS to sex crimes?????
Wow. What state do you live in, RWD? Is TEN the age of consent there?

But then RWD follows it up with a real (unintentional) self-effacing gem:
"You stupid fuckers are a danger to the whole country with your bumper sticker brain logic."

Hey, look...RWD's middle initial is W.
Interesting......now it's starting to make a lot more sense.....

Thanks for the entertainment, guys. It's good to know the UBERright is being so well-tended by such clever folks as yourselves.

Here you go AU

This text is from the 1999 Texas Penal Code.

Sec. 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes that:
(A) the third person has requested his protection of the land or property;
(B) he has a legal duty to protect the third person's land or property; or
(C) the third person whose land or property he uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent, or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care.

Since the little boy died I hope they get life.

This is what Joe Horn wrongfully referred to:

*Castle Doctrine/"Stand Your Ground" Legislation~SB 378 by Senator Jeff Wentworth (R-San Antonio)/Rep. Joe Driver (R-Garland) This legislation puts the protection of the law where it belongs: with the law abiding, not the law breaking. If a criminal unlawfully enters or intrudes into your home, occupied vehicle, or place of business, you can presume that he is there to cause death or great bodily harm and you may use any manner of force, including deadly force, against him. The bill also explicitly states in law that you have no "duty to retreat" from a criminal attack if you are in any place you have a right to be and you are not engaged in unlawful activity. Last, the proposal would limit the ability of criminals and their families to sue victims for killing or injuring their attackers. This was signed into law by Governor Perry, the first bill signed into law this legislative session! It will go into effect on September 1, 2007.

-Were these two burglers 'in his home'? No. Horn went OUTSIDE and sought them out.

-Were they there to 'cause him great bodily injury'? No. Not while they're walking in the other direction they're not.

-There were a lot of bills concerning guns that went into effect on September 1, 2007.

NONE of them gave Joe Horn the right to shoot and kill two people in the back OUTSIDE with a shotgun.

I'm not going to 'debate' you any further. Joe Horn is a dumb fuck who should have been convicted of 2nd degree murder.

Did you guys even read that post? Were you honestly stupid enough to think Rcade was quoting ACTUAL statistics? It's called "wondering aloud".

Thanks. Simple logic dictates that a certain percentage of gun owners are stupid and irresponsible. I was just wondering how high that number is, and wondering whether any Second Amendment absolutists worry about it.

PS

The law I just posted went into effect September 1st, 2007 - the year Joe Horn shot those two men in cold blood ... in the back.

Just for perspective:

CAUSES OF DEATH, USA, 2002
FORMAL NAME

INFORMAL NAME

% ALL DEATHS
(1) Diseases of the heart heart attack (mainly) 28.5%
(2) Malignant neoplasms cancer 22.8%
(3) Cerebrovascular disease stroke 6.7%
(4) Chronic lower respiratory disease emphysema, chronic bronchitis 5.1%
(5) Unintentional injuries accidents 4.4%
(6) Diabetes mellitus diabetes 3.0%
(7) Influenza and pneumonia flu & pneumonia 2.7%
(8) Alzheimer's Disease Alzheimer's senility 2.4%
(9) Nephritis and Nephrosis kidney disease 1.7%
(10) Septicemia systemic infection 1.4%
(11) Intentional self-harm suicide 1.3%
(12) Chronic Liver/Cirrhosis liver disease 1.1%
(13) Essential Hypertension high blood pressure 0.8%
(14) Assault homicide 0.7%
(15) All other causes other 17.4%

So quit smoking, eat right and exercise. Guns aren't the problem.

Absolutists could argue the 1st Amendment gives you the right to yell "FIRE!!" in a crowded theater or threaten someone with killing them, or that the 2nd Amendment right "To Bear Arms" allows you to have RPG's or even nuclear weapons.

Common sense doesn't seem to be a common denominator among rabid gun enthusiasts. They call non federally registered gun dealers at gun shows 'private sellers' - this despite the fact those very people have gobs of weapons for sale. As if to imply it's nothing more than some Joe selling his dad's Army rifle and going home.

ATF statistics are rife with 'strawmen purchases' from licensed gun dealers, and heavier weapons purchased at gun shows from unlicensed 'private sellers' used in crimes. Just where do they think criminals get all these guns? Reported bun thefts cannot account for a fraction of the guns in criminals hands.

"non federally registered gun dealers "

Now you're just making shit up.

"Reported bun thefts"

LOL!

"And while we're at it dipshit,why not sue the ACLU for all the porn and pedophilia they defend that leads to sex crimes."

Hang on....you're saying pedophilia LEADS to sex crimes?????
Wow. What state do you live in, RWD? Is TEN the age of consent there?

#122 | Posted by TheTom

You spent a lot of time and bandwidth arguing about people not reading.
Take your own advise dipshit and learn to read what is posted.
I was responding to celisarys post.He was ranting about suing the NRA because of the crimes these two fools committed.
I threw back in his face an equally ridiculous comment which apparently went over your head.
Is that self effacing enough?

rwd

The common sense rules the NRA opposes are the very loopholes which lead to more guns in the hands of people who have no business possessing them, thus leading to more gun sales to people who feel they need to protect themselves from the criminals who buy them that way. Coincidence? I don't think so. It's a self fulfilling prophecy the NRA and their gun manufacturer sponsors love.

As I just pointed out, reported gun thefts can only account for a fraction of guns used in crimes or currently in the hands of criminals.

ZAT

I went to a gun show with my brother in law. I didn't see average Joe's selling their grandfather's Army rifle to someone standing with them in the aisle. I did see booth after booth stocked to the rafters with every imaginable kind of gun though.

Many of those booths are what the rabid NRA members would call 'private' dealers - the kind closing the 'gun show loophole' are meant to address.

I have guns, but I also have common sense. The two don't seem to meet frequently among the rabid gun crowd.

Read the ATF's reports on seized guns or those found at crime scenes. Stolen weapons only account for a fraction. Their own report states that 'strawmen' buying weapons for others and gun show sales account for the vast majority of weapons known to have been used in a crime.

"Reported bun thefts"

LOL!

Posted by Zatoichi

A lot of hot dogs with no place to call home. Sad. LOL

PS

The law I just posted went into effect September 1st, 2007 - the year Joe Horn shot those two men in cold blood ... in the back.

#127 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

It is hard to debate when you are wrong.

Are you suggesting that since it went into effect in 2001 it negates section 9.43 of the penal code?

Also SB 378 "Castle Doctrine" says not 1 word about concealed weapons so you are wrong again.

'Their own report states that 'strawmen' buying weapons for others and gun show sales account for the vast majority of weapons known to have been used in a crime."

So when are they going to arrest ABC News' strawman?
Just wondering.

But if you believe (a) a lot of Americans are stupid and irresponsible and (b) there's a right to keep and bear arms, it logically follows that a lot of stupid and irresponsible people in this country own guns. I just wonder how high the percentage of armed idiots is. My guess is that 15 percent of the guns in this country are owned by people who have no business owning something so dangerous because they can't handle the responsibility. We'd be better off if we required strict licensing and training for gun owners, like we do drivers.

Posted by rcade at 2009-05-09 12:58 PM | Reply

RCADE, You got to be kidding me right? To start there are more accidents from careless drivers than gun accidents, even with the Drivers Test. Second having a Gun is a Right not a Privilege like Drivers License. So to compare the two is nonsence.

I think it would the be same as comparing the Privilege of getting a Education to the Right of Voting.

I have bought a few guns at gun shows in Texas over the last 40 some odd years.
In every case the seller wanted my driver's license and wrote it down. They were protecting themselves.

If you want to do something that actually saves lives, lobby for much, much harsher treatment of drunk drivers.

Maybe we should have a Reading Exam everytime we go to Vote. Just to make sure everybody knows what they are doing.

And stop smoking!
Tobacco kills 500,000 Americans yearly.

Texas, BIG FUCKING SURPRISE, this is what happens when these One Tooth Fucking Assholes that run that State allow these INCEST driven Right Wing Nuts to have guns without checking their mental state.....NRA Still proud of your selves, FUCKING PRICKS, IF ANY OF THOSE THAT WERE SHOT DIES, The State of Texas an the NRA should be sued by the Family for all their are worth. TEXAS an the NRA two of the more useless Organizations in the whole Fucking Country.......

Do us all a favor and Join the NRA now! couple of nut cases do not negate the millions of responsible gun owners in this country. The responsible gun owners have a right to own guns to defend themseleves, their family and property. supreme court just said so fuck face... Now go get ready to watch MSNBC for your daily dose of cool-aid. oh, and if you don't like all the big, mean guns in the U.S. do us a favor and move to fucking Europe.

TXLIBRARIAN

Several gun laws went into effect September 1st, 2007.

The ONLY law Horn could have been referring to with his "September 1st changed everything" is the one I posted - "The Castle Doctrine" - which went into effect on September 1st, 2007. The others had to do with concealed weapons, seizures, etc.

You're giving Texas a bad name. Quit while you're ahead.

PS

The law I just posted went into effect September 1st, 2007 - the year Joe Horn shot those two men in cold blood ... in the back.

#127 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Also section 9.43 is in the 2008 Texas penal code. Google it.

Dumb Fuck

ZATOICHI

Copying your driver's license does not mean you've cleared a background check and should own a weapon.

Cash does the talking with non registered gun dealers who'd like to act as though they're a 'private party' with tables of weapons for sale.

TXLIBRARIAN

Horn shot the guys in 2007. Not 2008. You should be hearing an echo right about now that sounds a lot like 'dumb fuck'.

"non registered gun dealers"

Ain't no such thing.

I think I was on the low side with presuming only half of Texans are dumb fucks. I did my homework. God, you're dense.

You got to be kidding me right?

Only in America would the suggestion of gun licenses get that response. No, I'm not kidding. It's insane that we live in a society where gun owners don't have to prove their basic competency and their awareness of safety issues and the laws regarding the use of firearms.

"non registered gun dealers"

Ain't no such thing.

ZATOICHI

Yes there are. They call themselves 'private sellers' and sell a shitload of guns at gunshows. I'd think gun enthusiasts would want to ensure no gun goes in the wrong hands. I was wrong. The ATF disagrees with you and has the data to back them up.

Falling right into the trap the NRA wants to set to keep gun sales high: "Let's not close the gun show loophole to make sure everyone should have a gun so we can sell more guns."

Horn shot the guys in 2007. Not 2008. You should be hearing an echo right about now that sounds a lot like 'dumb fuck'.

#147 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

AU I know you are not that stupid but you cant give up on your argument and admit you were wrong.

If sec 9.43 was in the 1999 penal code and in the penal codes many years prior to that and everyone since including the 2008 penal code then it was in effect in 2007 as well.

Tell me how that echo sounds again "Dumb Fuck".

TXLIBRARIAN

These are the gun related laws in Texas that went into effect on September 1st, 2007:

*Castle Doctrine/"Stand Your Ground" Legislation~SB 378 by Senator Jeff Wentworth (R-San Antonio)/Rep. Joe Driver (R-Garland) This legislation puts the protection of the law where it belongs: with the law abiding, not the law breaking. If a criminal unlawfully enters or intrudes into your home, occupied vehicle, or place of business, you can presume that he is there to cause death or great bodily harm and you may use any manner of force, including deadly force, against him. The bill also explicitly states in law that you have no "duty to retreat" from a criminal attack if you are in any place you have a right to be and you are not engaged in unlawful activity. Last, the proposal would limit the ability of criminals and their families to sue victims for killing or injuring their attackers. This was signed into law by Governor Perry, the first bill signed into law this legislative session! It will go into effect on September 1, 2007.

*Replacement for the "Traveling" Law Passed in 2005~HB 1815 by Rep. Carl Isett (R-Lubbock)/Senator Juan "Chuy" Hinojosa (D-McAllen) Currently referred to as the "Motorists Protection Act" In 2005, the Texas Legislature passed a bill establishing that a person is presumed to be traveling if he or she is in a private motor vehicle, is not engaged in criminal activity, is not prohibited by law from possessing a firearm, and is not a member of a criminal street gang. The clear intent was to protect law-abiding citizens' right to carry a handgun concealed for personal protection in their cars or trucks without needing a Concealed Handgun License (CHL).

HB 1815 includes the same safeguards and requirements passed by the 79th Legislature. However, it will no longer be an offense for Texans to have a handgun in their vehicles or vehicles under their control. It passed unanimously in both houses of the Texas Legislature, was signed by the Governor, and goes into effect on September 1, 2007.

*CHL Confidentiality~HB 991 by Rep. Patrick Rose (D-Dripping Springs)/Senator Bob Deuell (R-Greenville) The bill would prohibit access to information regarding CHL applicants and license holders, except by federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies and their employees. Twenty-six "Shall Issue" states have enacted confidentiality provisions as part of their concealed carry statutes. This bill passed overwhelmingly in both houses and was signed by the Governor on May 23, and went into immediate effect! *Possession of Handgun by a CHL on LCRA Property (Lower Colorado River Authority, SB 535 by Senator Glenn Hegar (R-Katy). This bill clarified problems in the state law that could have led to prosecutions of CHL holders on LCRA property and makes permissible the discharge of a firearm for self-defense. It passed without opposition, was signed by Governor, and goes into effect on September 1, 2007.

*TSRA Specialized License Plate Language Change~HB 2045 by Rep. Larry Phillips (R-Sherman)/Senator Bob Deuell (R-Greenville) This new law will clarify the expenditure process for thousands of dollars raised by TSRA members purchasing special organizational license plates. It passed without opposition, was signed by the Governor, and goes into effect on September 1.

If sec 9.43 was in the 1999 penal code and in the penal codes many years prior to that and everyone since including the 2008 penal code then it was in effect in 2007 as well.

Tell me how that echo sounds again "Dumb Fuck".

Says the guy who will argue to kingdom come that Joe Horn did not mean September 1st, 2007 when he said "September 1st changed everything"?

Again, hear that echo in your house?

Who's quoting a 1999 law and insisting Horn didn't mean "September 1st, 2007" when he said "September 1st..."?

You're too stubborn to admit you're wrong, and now you're just being a dumb asshole. Later.

Tobacco kills 500,000 Americans yearly.

#142 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2009-05-09 04:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

Cigarettes don't kill people, people kill people.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Wars don't kill people, people kill people.

Cars don't kill people, people kill people.

Drugs don't kill people, people kill people.

TXLIBRARIAN

These are the gun related laws in Texas that went into effect on September 1st, 2007:
#153 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

True but we were talking about the "castle doctrine".

When I said Mr. Horn was right about the law changing in Texas you know I was refering to the one he was refering to "the castle doctrine". Then you said "What do concealed weapons laws have to do with shooting two people who posed no threat to you in the back with a shotgun against the repeated orders of a law enforcement?" So we were both commenting on the law he talked about not any other law and you know it. Which says nothing about concealed weapons.

Any way he was justified under sec. 9.43 of the penal code even if the "castle doctrine" was never put into law.

TX

Joe Horn was erroneously referring to the Castle Doctrine.

Still, under that law he had no right to seek them out OUTSIDE and shoot them in the back. This is the point. The fact a grand jury didn't indict him doesn't change the fact he shot them in cold blood - in the back - when they posed no threat to him, they were not in his house or place of business, and he sought them out against the orders of law enforcement.

I posted above all the gun laws that went into effect on September 1st, 2007. All but the first deal with issues concerning concealed weapons.

ZAT

Since you're feeling the need to be an asshole today, please show us the picture of your cat for the 100,000th time.

TX

It's legal here to shoot someone if they're inside your house or place of business and pose a imminent threat. I live in Tennessee.

Joe Horn getting away with what he did has opened the door to god-knows-what. Headline story here included.

I don't have a problem at all with people protecting themselves, but shooting people outside who pose no threat is where most of us would draw the line. Wouldn't you agree?

BTW, a conservative has put forth a bill here in TN that would allow anyone to carry a weapon into a bar. That's really smart, eh?

Those are some scary mugshots. Gale and Sheila Muhs are the oldest 45-year-olds I've ever seen. Gale's also got a golf-ball sized protrusion on his right cheek.

Gale and Sheila Muhs are the oldest 45-year-olds.

Gale and Shiela?

They're lesbians?

Guess Gale must be the butch one.

/Basing that on the bigger beard there.

Old?

Fark, Spud is the same age as these freaks and compared to them Deth is "spring chicken" Spud!

They look like they've been left out in the rain longer than the tin man from that Oz flick.

Prolly not "left out" per se.

More likely too dumb too come in from it.

They got that whole "descended from a long line of married cousins" thing going on.

Be Well.

I don't have a problem at all with people protecting themselves, but shooting people outside who pose no threat is where most of us would draw the line. Wouldn't you agree?
#158 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

It doesn't matter if I agree it is the law.
It doesn't matter if Joe Horn was erroneously referring to the Castle Doctrine.

The fact is that under state law penal code 9.43 he was justified to use force or lethal force to protect the property of a 3rd party and no they don't have to be in your house or pose a threat to your person. Just to your property or a 3rd parties property read the statute. It maybe that way in TN. but not here. Also it's kind of hard to protect a 3rd parties property from your inside your home.

Now as for these 2 assholes the Muhs' that shot these people they'll get theirs as well they should. Just because the were only charged with ag assault doesn't mean the charges wont be upped to at least criminally negligent homicide and probably even a stiffer charge. They should rot in hell but that might be better than the piney woods deliverance country the 2 are from.

Any way I have to go get my truck washed hope I make it out of there alive they have a lot of "TAN" people as you like to refer them at the car wash. I hope I don't get caught in the crossfire when someone starts willie-nillie shooting at one of the "TAN" people. Because as you say you get a pass for shooting "TAN" people down here.

Hillary voters.

#1 | Posted by rightisright at 2009-05-09 09:34 AM | Reply | Flag:

Jak se mao voted for Hillary.

TX

Again, you dishonestly twist words.

I said they might have HAD tans.

Joe Horn is going to have to live with his actions, and answer for them to God. Killing two people in cold blood who didn't pose a threat is murder no matter how you'd like to parse it or excuse it. Like he could have told them to stop or shot them in the legs or something.

It's legal here to shoot someone if they're inside your house or place of business and pose a imminent threat. I live in Tennessee.

#158 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Well,in Texas its legal to shoot someone committing a crime outside your house.
Committing a crime is considered an imminent threat,if you don't think so think again,that's why the stand your ground laws came into effect.
He wasn't charged with a crime, so what's your beef?
Opinions don't count as fact.

rwd

Jak se mao voted for Hillary.

ALEX

Cat's out of the bag. He's actually Jack C Muh.

shot them in the legs or something.

#163 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Shooting to wound is a sure way of getting yourself killed or injured.

rwd

Well,in Texas its legal to shoot someone committing a crime outside your house.
Committing a crime is considered an imminent threat,if you don't think so think again,that's why the stand your ground laws came into effect.

No. The law is quite specific about being inside your home, car, or place of business. The only crime they could be conceived as committing is trespassing outside Horn's home.

The fact the grand jury were as crazy as Horn and you are doesn't excuse cold blooded murder. He was told to stay inside multiple times. If the bar's that low in Texas I just might have to move down there and catch you and TXLIBRARIAN walking across my lawn.

BTW, we also have the Castle Law in Tennessee, but that idiot had better be inside your home or you're going to prison.

The pertinent part of the law as passed:

Shooting to wound is a sure way of getting yourself killed or injured.

rwd

Running outside your house when law enforcement tells you repeatedly NOT to, as they did with Horn, is a surer way.

Walking in the opposite direction, as the burglars did, is called "Leaving" not "Entering".

Cat's out of the bag. He's actually Jack C Muh.

Close.

"Jack C Mun"

LOL

BTW, the little boy died, and his mother is barely hanging on in critical condition. How sad.

Americanunity-
re: "BTW, the little boy died, and his mother is barely hanging on in critical condition."

In the larger and more pressing context of how Obama is going to take our guns away and round us up into re-education camps and declare Sharia law, I hardly see how this is relevant.

If the bar's that low in Texas I just might have to move down there and catch you and TXLIBRARIAN walking across my lawn.

#167 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Is that a threat?

rwd

#168 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Show me where Horn was not justified in his actions

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,1994.
Amended by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 190, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

"A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect the property of a third person if he reasonably believes he would be justified to use similar force to protect his own property, and he reasonably believes that there existed an attempt or actual commission of the crime of theft or criminal mischief."

Is that a threat?

rwd

Only if I move to Texas and you walk on my lawn LOL

Well I made it back from the car wash unscathed just had to duck and cover a few times. There was even a tan couple getting their car washed not doing the washing I was amazed. I even saw the ever elusive black man here in Kingwood that doesn't happen everyday.

No. The law is quite specific about being inside your home, car, or place of business.

#167 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

You could'nt be more wrong you keep qouting from SB 378, but wont acknowlege sec. 9.43 of the Penal Code which states (1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property.

You seem to think SB 378 ammended that. Your link shows which sections of the penal code which were amended by SB 378 speciffcally

SECTION 1. Amends Section 9.01, Penal Code

SECTION 2. Amends Section 9.31, Penal Code

SECTION 3. Amends Section 9.32, Penal Code

SECTION 4. Amends Section 83.001, Civil Practice and Remedies Code

SECTION 5. Makes application of this Act prospective.

SECTION 6. Effective date: September 1, 2007.

No were in SB 378 does it amend Section 9.43, of the Penal Code.

It's been fun but we are taking the party barge out on the lake tonight do some BBQ and drink some Shiner. Isn't it great to live right on the lake?

rwd is too much of a coward to walk on your lawn

Horn clearly thought the Castle Law was what gave him the right. He was mistaken.

BTW, cops in Texas should be on the lookout (from your link):

(1) if, before the actor offers any resistance, the peace officer (or person acting at his direction) uses or attempts to use greater force than necessary to make the arrest or search; and

(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the peace officer's (or other person's) use or attempted use of greater force than necessary.

You left off the rest of that paragraph:

"A person is justified in using deadly force against another to pervent the other who is fleeing after committing burglary, robbery, or theft during the nighttime, from escaping with the property and he reasonable believes that the property cannot be recovered by any other means; or, the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the property would expose him or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury. (Nighttime is defined as the period 30 minutes after sunset until 30 minutes before sunrise.)"

He shot them in broad daylight.

Common sense doesn't seem to be in plenteous supply in some Texas laws regarding the use of force.

american-
TXLibertarian my be right - You don't have to wait for actual trespassing on your property by RWD in order to shoot him.

Last post to RWD

#180 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

And you left off the top part of the law.
Admit it.You're wrong.

"A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect the property of a third person if he reasonably believes he would be justified to use similar force to protect his own property, and he reasonably believes that there existed an attempt or actual commission of the crime of theft or criminal mischief."

rwd

But, Americanunity, don't murder his child regardless of your rights under Texas law according to TXLibertarian.

It just looks bad....

TXLibertarian my be right - You don't have to wait for actual trespassing on your property by RWD in order to shoot him.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeee Haw!!! LOL

(Seriously, I hope I never have to shoot anyone).

PS Horn's neighbor's were idiots to not have their alarm system turned on. Mine goes off immediately, and the cops are there within minutes if it goes off silently. My ADT yard sign has probably done the trick. Never been broken into.

BETLG

According to the arguments going on here from the other side this family had it coming to them for trespassing and 'possibly' causing destruction to the levee - a 'crime', right?

Only difference between them and Horn is Horn is an 80 year old bat shit crazy cowboy, and the Muhs' are 45 year old bat shit crazy cowboys. Gayle (the man) has no tan on his forehead - indicating he wears a cowboy hat most of the time.

But, Americanunity, don't murder his child regardless of your rights under Texas law according to TXLibertarian.

It just looks bad....

#184 | Posted by BetelG

I'm pretty sure murder is illegal eveywhere.

RWD

I can understand Horn was too blind to write down their license plate number, right?

He stated he was shooting them because "everything changed on September 1st. I have a right to protect myself". That was Horn's statement to the dispatcher who was telling him repeatedly NOT to leave his house, not mine. It had nothing to do with the law you quoted.

So, running outside from the safety of your own home, against the orders of law enforcement, and shooting people in the back as they're leaving (not threatening) is just fine. It certainly would have put him in MORE danger than just staying inside and waiting for a cruiser.

Texas will be a Blue state within 10 years. Maybe some of these batshit crazy laws can be stricken for the public good.

PS Horn's neighbor's were idiots to not have their alarm system turned on.

#185 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

When the law works use conjecture to continue your argument.
Continue, it makes you look bad.

I'm pretty sure murder is illegal eveywhere.

#187 | Posted by TXLIBERTARIAN

Although legal in Horn's case according to the grand jury. You don't think the Muhs' read about that case and thought they were within their rights to kill these people too?

Shooting people outside who aren't coming in your direction is murder, whether codified into law or not.

Tennessee has the Castle Law too, but you'd better drag their ass inside if you shoot 'em on the porch or you go to prison. We have common sense here about such things.

Regarding Joe Horn, it was the shooting them in the back part the gave even Texans pause.

So, running outside from the safety of your own home

#188 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

That AU, is the whole premise of the stand your ground law.
The lawmakers finally woke up and decided that the victims should finally have a way to protect their property.
I am by no means agreeing with what Horn did.
I had a similar experience yet I didn't fire my weapon.
It is always good to have the law on the side of the victim in cases like this instead of the other way around.
Also,this law has the provision that the criminals cannot sue for damages.

rwd

TXLIBRARIAN said they weren't Mexican. German?

"Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30 ran short distances before collapsing and dying..."

Horn committed cold blooded murder. I don't care what you say. Had he been black or hispanic he'd be in prison right now. Hope it was worth saving the toaster and microwave...

The DA in Horn's case couldn't risk losing reelection by urging the Grand Jury to indict and letting a trial sort it all out. After all, Horn was an old white guy.

"the Muhs' read"

#190 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2009-05-09 08:13 PM | Reply | Flag: must be kidding

Had he been black or hispanic he'd be in prison right now
#193 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

That would be the conjecture clause found in the liberal handbook of lies.

rwd

RWD

I someone steals my TV, I catch them, they're unarmed and walking the other way, I'm not going to shoot them in the back. That's what insurance is for. Glad you don't agree with what Horn did. I don't see how anyone could.

#198 Bullshit

You know and I know that would be the case. Horn ONLY got off because he's white and the DA didn't have the balls to get the grand jury to hand down an indictment ... what with elections and all.

The murder of this little boy, and quite possibly his mother, should give pause to anyone who thinks shooting people who pose no threat is a dandy idea.

RWD

You'd be very wrong to assume I'm a "Liberal" because I disdain what Bush and Co did, or the reckless governance and hypocrisy of the GOP. I've voted Republican many times - most recently to reelect Lamar Alexander to the Senate. Knee jerk comments from the right will only drive MORE people away from ever considering pulling the "R" lever again. Please keep it up. We don't need any of what the GOP has these days. They've done enough damage.

Now, they want to eliminate moderates from the GOP. Exactly why I voted to reelect Alexander, a moderate, pragmatic, effective, and pragmatic Republican.

"the Muhs' read"

#190 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2009-05-09 08:13 PM | Reply | Flag: must be kidding

#195 | Posted by Zatoichi

You have a point there. Mea Culpa LOL

I'm sure they saw it on the Tee Vee

#197

They were not unarmed

#200 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

We don't need any of what the GOP has these days. They've done enough damage.

If you think Obama is not going to do long term irreparable damage to this country you are dead wrong.
I would rather have a republican in control during this time any day.
If I like it or not I will add.
If government control over your life is what you want then so be it.
Not for me.

rwd

rwd

RE #202

With a name like Right Wing Don I wouldn't expect you to say anything else.

Your problem is most of America doesn't see things the way you do. GOP ID is falling - now down to 21-25% depending on which poll you use. Down 7% from 2006 alone.

are you aware that for instance the busing issue was much more violent and worse than ANY instance in texas.............I am sure you arent..

#72 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2009-05-09 01:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Really? The 'busing' in Boston was more violent than tying a man to a bumper and dragging him until he literally came apart, all because of his skin color?

Busing was more violent than that?

TXLIBRARIAN said they weren't Mexican. German?

#193 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

There you go again showing your racist tendencies all people with Latino sounding names must be Mexicans.

How very centrist and moderate of you.

BTW they were Columbian.

Now to stir the pot a little more I've got to be up early to go to church in the morning, and no I'm not a right wing Baptist I happen to belong to the very left leaning liberal Evangelical Lutheran Church In America. I would rather have liberals in my church than in my government.

You racist bastard you assuming all "tan" people are Mexicans. The 2 burglars Joe Horn shot weren't Mexicans.

Posted by TXLIBERTARIAN at 2009-05-09 02:03 PM

First you denied they were Mexican. I proved you wrong. Of course Horn being white and their being Mexican had something to do with his getting a pass.

You've really made Texans look like dumbasses tonight. I have friends and family from Texas. They're smart. You on the other hand are a super duper dumbass who can't keep his arguments straight.

TXLIBRARIAN

Last post on this thread before I hit the sack:

They used to call people who shoot people in the back a "Yellow Bellied Coward". If Horn were Mexican and the burglars white I'd bet the farm he'd have been indicted, if for no other reason than disobeying the dispatcher's orders several times to stay inside and wait for the cops. Instead he played judge, jury, and executioner.

Only a dumbass can't understand "Do NOT go outside", "Wait for the cops". Only a fellow Yellow Bellied Coward thinks it's OK to shoot people in the back when they posed no threat.

According to your logic, the family subjects of this thread deserved to be shot. Must be how all you cowards think.

Now, TX will say, "OH, but they were Columbian".

So what? Every Hispanic is assumed to be Mexican until further notice.

If they'd been white Texans Horn would be in some serious doo doo.

TX

Thought of one final thing about this to add:

As you go to your church this morning, I hope you'll take a look at the 6th Commandment "Thou Shalt Not Kill", and ask yourself about the families of the two guys who were running away and posed no threat to Horn. Ask yourself about their kids, their wives, their parents. Sure, they were stealing, but since when is that a death sentence if they aren't robbing the shooters?

Sorry, guy. I just view what Horn and these despicable people (the Muhs) did as murder. No self defense. No real justifiable reason to kill anyone. Now, a 7 year old is dead too, and the woman with them may die - all because they took your view that it's OK to shoot people who pose no threat. What a tragedy.

If you truly are a God loving person, how can you condone this in any way or try to excuse these senseless deaths?

Willie and Family!

This couple could very easily pass for Willie Nelson's "kin"! Willie like his fellow "shoot em up" Texans is a gun fancier too with a large collection.Luckily for them it doesn't require an I.Q. over 65 to figure out how to load a bullet into a rifle and then fire it.Anyway you look at it these folk are your "Classic" Texans who are again America's best poster-children for all the glories of "In Breeding"!

You've really made Texans look like dumbasses tonight.

I love how one person suddenly becomes the representative for an entire state full of people.

As you go to your church this morning, I hope you'll take a look at the 6th Commandment "Thou Shalt Not Kill", and ask yourself about the families of the two guys who were running away and posed no threat to Horn.

It's actually more on the lines of "Thou Shalt not Murder". Murder being a very specific event.

These people that were shot were no threat and apparently weren't even on the Muh's property when they were shot. That's castle law and no-duty-to-retreat law thrown out the window, pretty much.

Give them a fair trial and, if found guilty, let 'em ride the lightning.

This couple could very easily pass for Willie Nelson's "kin"! Willie like his fellow "shoot em up" Texans is a gun fancier too with a large collection.Luckily for them it doesn't require an I.Q. over 65 to figure out how to load a bullet into a rifle and then fire it.Anyway you look at it these folk are your "Classic" Texans who are again America's best poster-children for all the glories of "In Breeding"!

I think you mean willie horn. Willie Nelson collects pot plants on a tour bus.

The FBI estimates there are over 200 million privately owned firearms in the United States.

Once again on display, is the overt tendency of the left to exploit the miniscule to advance their emotional agenda.

Using the blog owners estimate of 15 percent of private firearm owners being stupid and or irresponsible, and giving an average of 3 firearms to each owner, do the math.

Rounding, what is 70 million divided by 365?

Dumbasses.

The funny part is, these two idiots look exactly the way I picture gun totin' bible thumpin' bumbling morons on the right of the spectrum. Too dumb to know otherwise, too angry to see differently, hopelessly left behind in a world that is moving on.

The FBI estimates there are over 200 million privately owned firearms in the United States.

In a nation of 300 million people. Insanity.

The FBI estimates there are over 200 million privately owned firearms in the United States.
In a nation of 300 million people. Insanity

I hear you! that number should be way higher! Join the NRA now!

The funny part is, these two idiots look exactly the way I picture gun totin' bible thumpin' bumbling morons on the right of the spectrum. Too dumb to know otherwise, too angry to see differently, hopelessly left behind in a world that is moving on.

where exactly are we "moving on" to that is so wonderful? Would love to hear your thoughts...

Whoever said all me are created equal was a lying dip shit.

Those two things are below my cat.

Yeehaw!

I hear you! that number should be way higher!

Why? You can only hold two of them at a time, less if you need to scratch your nethers.

The bible says--Thou shalt not kill.

The bible does not say--Thou shalt not murder.

This is only a 'rational' person in Texas. One letter to the Houston Chronicle said, "He didn't shoot them in the legs, to make sure they did not run away, or hold them at gunpoint until police arrived. No, he was judge, jury and executioner."

#94 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

dont mess with texas

dont mess with texas

No point really.

Place is pretty messed up already.

Yer a case in point there, Babbler.

Be Well.

The bible says--Thou shalt not kill.

The bible does not say--Thou shalt not murder.

#220 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2009

boboreno

I think that I read someplace that the yiddish word that moses put on the stone actually meant murder
or was it the other way around...

if it was...nevermind

AGAIN........it doesnt make a shit what some of you say about this happening in texas..
if you think texas is the only place that UGLY poor white trash will shoot you for almost no reason, then you havent been in other parts of the country..

appalachia maybe???

HEY potatoe head

I know a great place for your next vacation.
its a nice little secluded spot just outside of Dayton along the Trinity river and about 50 miles from houston.
nice hiking trails and great looking women.

The bible says--Thou shalt not kill.

The bible does not say--Thou shalt not murder.

Actually, that would be inaccurate Bob. As per usual with you. There are older translations that say "Thou Shall not Kill" and other translations that say "Thou shalt not Murder".

One only has to look back in the old testament to see how many times death was used as just punishment for crimes of murder and adultery to understand that "killing" wasn't the problem, it was "murder".

If you want to get into the various interpretations of what "murder" means, that's a whole other thread.

The FBI estimates there are over 200 million privately owned firearms in the United States.

In a nation of 300 million people. Insanity.

#214 | Posted by rcade at 2009-05-10 11:32 AM | Reply | Flag:

Should I link you to the documentary that makes the claim that the ATF database isn't 100% accurate, and that the ATF will perjure themselves and claim that it is 100% accurate when testifying in a court of law?

That's well over half...so we can assume one of two things, right?

Either lots liberals own fire arms and need to be educated by the sophisticated, enlightened liberals on this site.

or

The country is full of back-wood, toothless, republican hillbillies who are scared of their own shadows.

Even the most back-wood, toothless hillbillies who are scared of their own shadows should know shooting someone outside who doesn't pose a threat is wrong.

BTW, here's what the legislator who drew up the Castle Law in Texas had to say:

The incident (Horn's) may prove a test for a new law recently passed in Texas which expands the right of citizens to use deadly force.

Under Texas law, people may use deadly force to protect their own property or to stop arson, burglary, robbery, theft or criminal mischief at night.

But the legislator who authored the "castle doctrine" bill told the Chronicle it was never intended to apply to a neighbor's property, to prompt a "'Law West of the Pecos' mentality or action," said Republican Sen. Jeff Wentworth. "You're supposed to be able to defend your own home, your own family, in your house, your place of business or your motor vehicle."

Now a 7 year old is dead. Thanks to Horn, the Muhs got the idea it was perfectly OK to shoot someone who posed no threat. In Horn's case, he put himself in harms way by going outside against the orders of the dispatcher.

First you denied they were Mexican. I proved you wrong.

#206 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

How could you possibly have proven me wrong when you said they were Mexicans I denied they were Mexicans because they were not Mexicans they were Columbians.

It takes some pretty twisted logic to think you proved me wrong on that one.

My God you just can't admit being wrong even when the truth slaps you in the face.

So what? Every Hispanic is assumed to be Mexican until further notice.

#208 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Only by racists such as your self just because someone has a Latino name does not mean they are Mexican.

P.S not all Asians are Chinese and not all Africans are black. Wrap your racist mind around that.

he put himself in harms way by going outside against the orders of the dispatcher.

#227 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

You seem to think all dispatchers are law enforcement officers they're not.

Can a dispatcher who's not a cop pull you over for speeding?

Can a dispatcher who's not a cop cite you for littering?

Can a dispatcher who's not a cop enforce any law?

The dispatcher was a dispatcher not a law enforcement officer.

Call me all the names you want. I could care less. He murdered them in cold blood, just like the Muhs' murdered that 7 year old boy. None of the people shot posed a threat to any of the shooters.

I don't think Joe Horn asked their names. He saw a couple Hispanic looking guys climbing out a window. He shot them in the back. You think that's OK.

If a dispatcher tells me not to do something guess what? I'm not going to do it.

Our dispatchers are sworn officers.

Now a 7 year old is dead. Thanks to Horn, the Muhs got the idea it was perfectly OK to shoot someone who posed no threat.

#227 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Do you have a link or proof to support you outrageous claim,or are you talking out of your ass. Are you going to refer back to Horn everytime there is a gun crime in Texas,is that correct?
You should quit posting because the more you post here the more unstable, unintelligible and racist you appear to be.
For fuck sakes, someone who makes the bizarre claim of being an intelligentsia you certainly aren't living up to that fact.

rwd

Only by racists such as your self just because someone has a Latino name does not mean they are Mexican.

In Texas, a Hispanic person would be assumed to be Mexican first. That assumption does not make me a racist. It makes me a pragmatist. You, on the other hand, can be assumed to be one who condones shooting people in the back who are running away. Next I'll suppose you're going to excuse the Muhs for shooting people they thought were in their yard "tearing up the levee". That ought to be interesting to read.

Our dispatchers are sworn officers.

#231 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Got a link to that?

rwd

#233 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Pure conjecture

rwd

RWD

I'm among the most non racist people you'll ever meet and don't really care what you right wingers say about much. TX's sticking up for Horn is enough for me to dismiss his arguments out of hand.

#236 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Another lie.

Link to where he made that statement.All I see is him haggling over fine points.

As far as you being racist,all liberals are racist.

rwd

Now a 7 year old is dead. Thanks to Horn, the Muhs got the idea it was perfectly OK to shoot someone who posed no threat.

#227 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Do you have a link or proof to support you outrageous claim,or are you talking out of your ass. Are you going to refer back to Horn everytime there is a gun crime in Texas,is that correct?

AU, answer the question

rwd

As far as you being racist,all liberals are racist.

RWD

Uh, sure. That's why it was Republicans who passed the Voting Rights Act and every other piece of legislation to bring racial equality to America, right?

Now, ask yourself why the GOP is sinking faster than the Titanic. Idiotic statements like you made are only believed by the dumbest people. Like GOP mouthpieces stating that everyone not in lock step are 'defeatocrats' or somehow un-American. What's next? Obama's birth certificate? He's a Muslim terrorist? God right wingers take the cake for idiotic rhetoric.

TX has gone out of his way to defend what Horn did - with multiple posts attempting to show Horn was perfectly within his rights to shoot those two guys in the back.

Are you going to refer back to Horn everytime (sic) there is a gun crime in Texas,is that correct?

Sure. Every time someone in Texas shoots unarmed people outside who pose no threat.

Do you have a link or proof to support you outrageous claim,or are you talking out of your ass. Are you going to refer back to Horn everytime there is a gun crime in Texas,is that correct?

Do you have proof that they didn't think of Horn when they did this indefensible thing?

The claim is not outrageous.

You, on the other hand, by continuing to defend Horny Joe's murderous ways, are.

Be Well.

In Texas, a Hispanic person would be assumed to be Mexican first. That assumption does not make me a racist. It makes me a pragmatist. You, on the other hand, can be assumed to be one who condones shooting people in the back who are running away. Next I'll suppose you're going to excuse the Muhs for shooting people they thought were in their yard "tearing up the levee". That ought to be interesting to read.

#233 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Here you go.

Now as for these 2 assholes the Muhs' that shot these people they'll get theirs as well they should. Just because they were only charged with Ag assault doesn't mean the charges wont be upped to at least criminally negligent homicide and probably even a stiffer charge. They should rot in hell but that might be better than the piney woods deliverance country the 2 are from.
#161 | Posted by TXLIBERTARIAN at 2009-05-09 06:19 PM

So your admitting that YOU assume all Hispanics are Mexicans until they prove other wise to YOU?

I know. Some of your closest friends are Mexicans.

Being a 4th generation Texan I know all Hispanics aren't Mexicans, and I would never assume they were.

Maybe that's the way self proclaimed moderate centrists from Tennessee think but certainly not me.

I always wondered why Sam Houston Davey Crockett and many other good people from TN. left and came to Texas after debating with you I wonder no more.

I'm gonna watch golf. Much more stimulating than this conversation.

TX

My family moved from TN to TX in the 19th Century. I have lots of family and friends from there.

I'll add that 'debating' with you only leaves me feeling Texas has more right wing idiots than anywhere else in the U.S.

OK, golf it is.

my questions is why are hispanics offended if they are called mexican? hmmmmm maybe a little racism there? is there something wrong with mexicans?

Being a 4th generation Texan I know all Hispanics aren't Mexicans, and I would never assume they were.

Ha ha ha ha ha!

My family settled in Texas in the 1870's. I don't have a thing against Texas except right wing morons from Texas who think, for instance, it's OK to shoot unarmed people in the back.

Gee, with a 1254 mile long border with MEXICO, no one would think a Hispanic person in Texas is Mexican before Guatemalan or Columbian, right?

This couple looks like they have been on a three week run of heavy speed use. The Darwin Committee says they are acknowledged throw backs and far past any kind of award. That ain't easy to be!

There's not enough Darwin awards to hand out for Texan tards.

There's not enough Darwin awards to hand out for Texan tards.

If Only this was a Darwin award nominee.

Unless I'm mistaken in order to be a candidate one has to injure ones self and not a passing innocent.

Now RWD might be a candidate in the 2nd amendment defense category...

Even the most back-wood, toothless hillbillies who are scared of their own shadows should know shooting someone outside who doesn't pose a threat is wrong.

You totally missed the point of my post. You don't need to convince me that was these people did was wrong whether the state of texas agrees with me or not.

Gee, with a 1254 mile long border with MEXICO, no one would think a Hispanic person in Texas is Mexican before Guatemalan or Columbian, right?

#247 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

I tell you what I'll admit that a lot of people would assume they are Mexicans in particular you, when you admit you lied when you said you proved me wrong about them being Mexicans.

First you denied they were Mexican. I proved you wrong.
#206 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

I haven't defended Mr. Horn one time I just stated the law. I'm sorry you don't agree with the law but that's not my fault. I'm sure there were people on the grand jury that no billed him that did not agree with the law but they had to follow law.

TX

You started out trying to defend Horn's actions by quoting a 1999 law, which should have made the Castle Law unneccessary, right? Horn referred to the 2007 Castle Law with the dispatcher as his rational - a law which most certainly does NOT give him the right to shoot people outside who are running away.

God will be the final judge of Mr. Horn. In the meantime, I hope he tosses and turns in bed.

rationale

That's not defending him that's stating the law which is still on the books to this day but you refuse to acknowledge that fact.

BTW most Hispanics in Texas aren't Mexican, Guatemalan or Columbian they're Americans

You just can't bring yourself to admit you lied when you said you proved me wrong about them being Mexican can you?

TX

You choose to parse, deflect, and excuse Horn's actions. My point was that the fact they were Hispanic is what got Horn a pass. It took the 15th article I Googled to see they were Columbian. I knew they were Hispanic. You've spent hours trying to explain why Horn's actions were called for and legal. I will always say killing two men in cold blood over $2000 of stolen goods from a neighbor's house is wrong.

This should have been brought to trial. Perhaps only the DA's worry about reelection led him to not push the Grand Jury for a bill. God knows he wouldn't want his constituents to go around saying, "Horn had to shoot them Mexicans and the DA must be a lib!"

And, you're dead wrong about Mexicans being called "Americans" as the first choice of reference. Every Texan I know who has Mexicans living in their neighborhood, or any time they mention Mexicans, they call them "Mexicans".

Care to explain why the Castle Law would have even been considered necessary if the 1999 law covered it all? Even the Republican legislator who brought the Castle Law to a vote said the Castle Law was never intended to excuse what Horn did.

Common sense does not seem to be a term you know or adhere to. Some Christian you are to spend all this time arguing on behalf of an idiot who went outside and, what some might say, putting himself in danger. Any non-moron would have stayed inside.

Seems Horn thought he was going to be seen as hero

You choose to parse, deflect, and excuse Horn's actions
#256 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Just how dense are you?

Sure. Every time someone in Texas shoots unarmed people outside who pose no threat.

#241 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Even you can't be that dumb to believe that.
If you do, then,your opinions are worthless.

rwd

Poor AU another lie I never said his actions were called for I did say they were legal.

Nice job of changing what I said so you can lie again I did not say they were "called" Americans I said they were Americans that's a fact.

You seem to have a problem with facts

Two lies in one post can we get three?

15th article really? I just googled Joe Horn and it's right there in the 2nd result.

Gee, RWD, even your 'opinion' was that what Horn did wasn't right. Would you like to retract that or is it more important to bash what you consider a 'liberal' (who voted for Lamar Alexander last year)?

TX has spent hours trying to legally take Horn off the hook. I never did ask him if he thought it was the right thing "morally". I'm sure the answer would earn him a FF. Right wingers, whether or not they now call themselves "Libertarians" because of Bush shame, give me plenty of laughs at their expense.

Nice job of changing what I said so you can lie again I did not say they were "called" Americans I said they were Americans that's a fact.

Uh, sure. There aren't hundreds of thousands of illegals in Texas - like the two guys Horn shot in cold blood. Man, you get more ridiculous by the post.

Oh, and gee, even GOATMAN referred to his neighbors as "Mexicans" just last week. Don't even pretend you don't. Now you're trying to pretend to take the high ground on a point that has nothing to do with the fact Horn shot two "Hispanics" in cold blood. "Libertarian" my ass.

The FBI estimates there are over 200 million privately owned firearms in the United States.

In a nation of 300 million people. Insanity.

#214 | Posted by rcade at 2009-05-10 11:32 AM |

I take it math isn't your subject, eh?

What Joe Horn did was legal.

Cutting the hands off thieves is legal in Muslim countries.

You get the same kind of laws when you elect the same kind of people. Simple isn't it.

I take it math isn't your subject, eh?

#263 | Posted by Washboard at 2009-05-10 09:16 PM | Reply | Flag

I take it logic isn't your subject eh?

Looks like the "White Side" of Obama's family.

Gee, RWD, even your 'opinion' was that what Horn did wasn't right.

#260 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

I said I didn't agree with what he did.It is not the way I would have done it.Then again I wasn't there,I can only go on my own experience.
I also stated that it is good that the law is on the side of the victim instead of the criminal.
Your hysterics are quite funny coming from someone who claims to be from the "intelligentsia."

rwd

Right wingers, whether or not they now call themselves "Libertarians" because of Bush shame, give me plenty of laughs at their expense.

#260 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

I'm 31 I've voted in every election since 1996 I never voted for Bush for Gov. or President. I have only voted for two republicans Dr. Ron Paul and Rep. Ted Poe.

I refer to my neighbors as Argentines because they're from Argentina.

How does it feel to know you have to lie to try to win a debate with a "moron from Texas?"

You're right there are hundreds of thousands illegal's in Texas there are also millions of Americans of Hispanic decent in Texas so I'm not sure what your point is.

Lie on!

Calling people 'liars' is what the most feeble minded with no real points to make do here.

Calling people 'liars' is what the most feeble minded with no real points to make do here.

#269 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Calling someone a liar is valid if the shoe fits,as it does in your case.

rwd

Accusing people of being 'liars' on an anonymous blog seems to be the favorite thing for feeble minded idiots to do. Like claims of WMD's.

Calling people 'liars' is what the most feeble minded with no real points to make do here.

#269 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Tell that to your internet buddy moneywar he has a knack for calling people liars but I see he won't call you on your bullshit. I only call you a liar because you lied more than once and still haven't admitted it.

I'm done with you on this particular topic because of your untruthfulness.

I only call you a liar because you lied more than once and still haven't admitted it.

So you say.

I bet 101st $1000 on his claims. Of course, he was too much of a coward to take me up on it.

Easy to call anyone anything you want to when you don't really have a moral leg to stand on. You're as much a coward as Joe Horn. Birds of a feather and all that.

Run away. Who cares?

Well I'm back because I can't pass up a $1000.

How do you want to set it up I'll gladly take your $1000 because you did lie.

First you denied they were Mexican. I proved you wrong.

#206 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2009-05-10 01:34 AM

What's that moral leg you were talking about again?

Shooting people in the back. Now you're sounding like an idiot with no argument to make, so you're making a mountain out of a molehill rather than addressing the moral argument behind the debate we've been having. Typical.

I explained it took 13 Google searches to discover they were Columbian after you decided to make a federal case out of it. I knew they were Hispanic. I doubt Joe Horn saw anything but Hispanic looking men. If you're going to pretend Texans don't call even U.S. citizens who are of Mexican background "Mexicans" I call you a liar.

Say, what's your stance on abortion?

` Shooting people in the back. Now you're sounding like an idiot with no argument to make, so you're making a mountain out of a molehill rather than addressing the moral argument behind the debate we've been having. Typical.

I explained it took 13 Google searches to discover they were Columbian after you decided to make a federal case out of it. I knew they were Hispanic. I doubt Joe Horn saw anything but Hispanic looking men. If you're going to pretend Texans don't call even U.S. citizens who are of Mexican background "Mexicans" I call you a liar.

Say, what's your stance on abortion?

#275 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Pussin out I see.

It only took me 1 Google search to find an article that said they were they were Columbian it was right there in the 2nd result. Just because it took you 13 Google searches that in no way means you didn't lie.

I never said "Texans don't call even U.S. citizens who are of Mexican background "Mexicans" " I said most Hispanics in Texas are Americans nice try though.

As far as abortion goes I don't agree with it so I wont be getting one though I don't really see that ever coming up since I'm a guy as far as what others do with their own body its none of my business and that goes not only for abortion but many others things people choose to do to themselves

Got your $1000 ready? I'm not too much of a coward to take you up on it.

I ask again how do you want to set this little bet up?

Don't let your keyboard write checks your ass cant cash.

BTW the local 10:00 p.m. news said the charges for the Muh's will be upped as well they should be.

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